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Link to my last thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2689943&page=1

Thank Lois and Ginger. Lois - we all have certain fears when this is dropped on our laps. Who wouldn't? And with kids in tow, it's all even more complicated. You should be so proud of yourself! As for your advice, we all impart our knowledge/bias based on what we've learned through this. I think we all try to protect and spare those coming behind us. Thanks!

Ginger - thank you again for the push. I do need to stand up for me just as I do for my kids. I need better boundaries, too. Still working on that. Thank you again for the reminder.

Well, this weekend I saw some interesting things. H showed several instances of kind gestures, mostly around food. He brought home yogurt and offered me some. I accepted. The next day, he offered it again. I ate some and he offered more. He offered me part of his smoothie. And, when we went to a pizza place as h was hungry (we were not) he put a slice of pizza on a plate and gave it to me without asking if I wanted it. I ate it but with all the feeding, I felt like he was fattening me up for the slaughter. Haha.

At one point we had to park the car in a garage. The instructions for getting out were taped near the exit (where h was supposed to punch in a key code) but instead h honked vigorously on the horn even though there was no one in the booth! Hence, the taped instructions. I really did feel like I was with a 17 year old. I stayed quiet and he figured it out. I did laugh (to myself) that he was staging a temper tantrum with a machine!

On several occasions he told us all a few stories about his childhood. They are recycled stories; I have heard them often. I listened again, but this time I categorically said "that is awful" or something similar. He then said "it really was."

He was talking about one loser his mother dated while he was young. This topic is on a loop and resurfaces frequently. He doesn't seem to be able to move past it??? I pushed a little and gave a super quick "adult" rationale that she dated him because she was in such a bad emotional place at that point in her life, hence that's the person she attracted and vice versa. (The kids were listening and I felt they needed an explanation.) After I gave my 2 cents, h said, kind of in a dismissive huff "yeah, that's the intellectual explanation." This is true, but, what I said was also very common sense. She just wasn't in a place to be a good mother.

Here's two more weirdo MLC stories. We were all discussing my niece (my sister's daughter), who is in medical school. H asked how she is surviving financially. I said she is poor like most medical students but survives better than most because her parents help. H said to the boys (straight from his kookoo M): "once you leave for college you are on your own. I won't help one bit." I have heard him repeat this nonsense before and sat quiet. I regretted it so this time I said to the boys: "no, as long as we are alive, we will help you so long as it does not hinder you for us to do so." I further clarified: if they are good kids, we will help. And if they fall on hard times at any point in their lives, so long as they are working hard (not as porn stars or dealing drugs, etc.) we'll help. I told them lots of people fall on hard times and that's what family/friends and yes, even money, is for!! H revised and seemed to "get it." That drivel is right from my "tough love" MIL. Can you imagine?? "I don't care if you are in medical school! I am not helping you!!"

Other story: s10 received a cool remote controlled copter. H was going to take him to the park to fly it. S10, too excited to wait 5 minutes, took it in the yard and accidentally flew it way off into a neighbor's yard. LOL! H came out and told him: "you can't fly that into someone's yard! You lose it for a week now!" I was not patient. I was exasperated. I said: "you can't punish him for a mistake! He is not going to lose it for a week! He's going to go get it and learn to fly it inside first." H just closed the door and went back inside. Just plain stupid. Hey, why don't we just beat him the remote control? That'll teach him.

So, I see him trying to parent. Unfortunately, I see and hear a lot of his mother in his parenting methodology. Is this normal? It's awful. Fortunately, he does defer to me whenever I intervene.

On the positive: he has been very aware of the kids and their schedules. He offers to do things with them and he seems much much more "present" much of the time. Last night at dinner, S10 asked h what his favorite part of his weekend was. His answer: "spending time with you two." Now, THAT is different from a year ago this time.

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Ciluzen- I missed your message and didn't respond in my above post. Sorry about that. Thanks so much for the very kind words! Right back 'atcha!


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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Hi HaWho, sorry I haven't posted much lately, but I do read along!

I agree with the advice you've been getting from others and I think you are right to assert yourself when you feel the need to do so. The 'medical school' moment sounded like a good one to intervene - particularly as you regretted not doing so before.

As the two of you are still parenting in partnership in the same home, it's important to protect your boys from the worst of MLC parenting and I think in that moment you did so. I think if you stay quiet in those moments, you defer to the MLC mayhem and the parenting they experience is 'his' parenting. I think it's always right to defer to the 'looking after me' and 'looking after them' option in these circumstances. It also models some behaviour for your H and if you are able to do it in a respectful way (ie: not bringing him down - even better.)

It sounds like you are doing well - and the moments of consideration from your H, must help balance the trying times. I would accept these for what they are and not try to string them together into any positive forward movement - just enjoy that moment.

Take care my friend xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Thanks Sotto for those pearls of wisdom. I appreciate your advice.

Well, I lost my temper today. And I need to vent. But first, a few updates.

H had memory problems resurface. The other day he couldn't remember what we did for XMAS this past year! I let him struggle through it. Finally he said "why can't I remember this. HaWho, what did we do for XMAS?" I answered and he seemed very frustrated in general.

Last night he gave me a really nasty comment. Somehow he worked my engagement ring into a conversation and said in anger "how much did THAT cost me?" Really classy. I handled this well by answering (very innocently): "I don't know. It never occurred to me to ask." It was a gift he gave willingly. I never asked for the ring and I never told him what he should spend on it. These are his choices.

This comment is on the heels of him saying a few weeks ago that he could have been on a boat all by himself instead of dealing with us. I am SO angry. I am tired of this litany. He is fortunate. He really is.

Today was a disaster. H is supposed to be supervising S12 mowing the lawn weekly. HAH! Talk about the blind leading the blind. Well, S didn't mow it this week. And h is oblivious. H promised me he would oversee this one chore while I oversee the 50 million others.

So I asked S12 to do it. I should not have meddled, but I did. He has a chore and he should do it. H said he would oversee it and he should supervise it. So, as I played drill sergeant, h came in and asked S12 to do something fun! I muttered: "he can't he is doing his chore: mowing the lawn." H said ok, truly, like he was a friend coming over to play with his buddy. He didn't seem to connect that this is the chore HE is supposed to supervise! And so, then I muttered "which you are supposed to be overseeing."

Well, he came out with his claws. He told me to keep my nose out of it. He said the lawn didn't even need mowing. I told him that HE is the one who said it needed to be done every week! (And though I didn't say it, it DID need it and he was just trying to save face.) So I said, ok, we'll just let him do his chores whenever he feels like it, I guess.

He told me to stop meddling in his affairs, to let him handle this and stop looking through his room and his stuff. I said "why would I bother looking through your stuff? To see all the lies you tell?"

Not a good day for me. I was frustrated. It is tiring being the only adult around.

He decided to take the kids out. I am off on my own tonight. I am going to grab a burger and go for a long walk.

Boy, am I mad today though.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
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Hi HaWho, you are so welcome and if I can help in any small way during these difficult times, I am glad.

I can understand your anger and truly when I read your sitch I don't see how I would have been able to do what you are doing and I'm full of admiration. I hope you can find some ways to release the pent up emotion - bash some stuff or do a vigorous job or exercise - something away from your H ideally.

The thing I'm noticing is that your anger seems to be borne from expectation. The expectation that your H will step up and be a parent in that one tiny way, whilst you are keeping everything else oiled, afloat and running smoothly. And what happens? He doesn't. Would it help to try and adjust your own expectation of him? Not to really see him as Dad (supervising tasks) or H (not lying) etc. - to truly accept that whilst you live in the same house, he doesn't really have much useful to offer and maybe not at the times you need.

There are moments of kindness, which is nice - and these are a bonus. The thing is, when you are angry (understandably and as a result of expectations....I thought he could just do that one job etc...) that becomes pressure for him and he responds like a cornered animal - aggression. He's not really in a place where he can deal with that - maybe he will get there and maybe not, but right now he isn't.

So, can you peacefully share a living space and have no expectations of him as a father or an H - whilst protecting your own boundaries in the face of any unreasonable behaviour? It is always your choice to carry on living together or not - and you can change your mind or have had enough at any given point. You have much power in this situation. But I think the only way to really get through living with a MLCer is to completely detach and let go of all expectations...

Just my thoughts anyway HaWho, and all said from the perspective of 'I don't know how she does this' and full of respect and admiration for you.

Do take care and I hope your weekend is a good one Sweetheart xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Sotto - thank you for that, truly.

I read and re-read your post. It's true that any time I apply 'pressure,' of any kind, he responds as a cornered animal. And it's true that I still have expectations for him even though I can see with my own eyes he is not the adult he once was.

Another issue is that, yesterday, I did not get out and hike or do anything physical until after h and I had words. I could feel the tension rising in my body. S12 was under the weather and I was home with him. But I remember thinking: I should go clean the garage. I know for me, I need that physical workout each and every day, usually twice/day.

Thank you so much Sotto for helping me see the patterns. I really appreciate the help.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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HaWho,
I agree w/Sotto and you have to find a way not to have expectations of your h. Right now, he is incapable of following through on stuff that he says he'll oversee, etc. You are so much like me in the fact that when someone says that they are going to do something and then they don't, we get very frustrated and even angry. It's difficult to let go of the expectations, but in time, you can do this. I have learned to say "oh, well...it's on him/her and if it doesn't get done, it doesn't get done". Then when they inquire about why something isn't completed, I just look at them and say "you volunteered to take care of it, so I stepped aside since you said you would take care of it". It's not easy, but you've got to drop that rope.

I hate to say this, but I do think the tension in your home is escalating and I am starting to sense from your posting that your frustration and anger are building more and more each time he doesn't step up to the plate. Maybe it's time to start shooting off some of those truth darts and calling him on his behavior, especially his comments. After all, wouldn't you call your sons out if they were saying such things to someone else?

What strikes me as odd is that he continues to accuse you of going through his things and in his room, i.e., I thought he was locking the door all of the time...when did you learn to pick locks? He can't seem to let that go.

Bottom line...breathe and when you feel that frustration and anger bubbling, get out of the house for a bit.

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Hi HW,

Sotto and Job have given some great advice, I don't have much to add other than my own way of dealing with my sitch. Once I was able to drop the expectations and accept that my H was no longer my H and no longer around much to parent, I took on the role of basically being a single mom. When issues came up, I made it clear to H with truth darts, based on his choices that result in the current situation, I live by my rules. I would tell him, you have decided to go live your own separate life, so do it and leave me alone. My life, my rules.

I don't think there is anything wrong with calling him out on his behavior and his choices. You would do just that with anyone else, right?

You continue to amaze me with your calm and grace. Keep your world that way. And there is nothing wrong with following up on your S with his chores. You are both the parents, your H had no reason to lash out. HW, keep riding on that awesome strength you have, and don't forget your power and your choices.

Much love,

M


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
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HaWho, I'm so sorry things have been somewhat turbulent lately. I will agree with the others when it comes to expectations.

I'm going to go a step further and agree with Job about the truth darts. The two words that came to mind when reading your last few posts are boundaries and respect. I think we all work really hard to give our MLCers space and time to work out their issues and most of us give them great latitude. But at some point we have to decide that this is far as we will let them go and no further. This is as much as we will tolerate and no more. And then start enforcing some boundaries and start demanding a little respect ... all done calmly and lovingly, of course.

Obviously, you know your sitch better than any of us and maybe you've done/are doing that, so take my suggestion with a grain of salt if that's appropriate.

Many, many {{{HUGS}}} to you.


Me: 59 and holding
H: :53
Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown
M: 19
T: 23
BD: 9-23-2013
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Thanks everyone for the posts. I hear you and I agree. I need to launch more truth darts.

Well, it's been an interesting few days. I have been looking deeply at a lot of my issues: those pre-MLC and those that have spawned and mutated in MLC. I am processing a lot of those.

Pre - MLC and through MLC: I need better boundaries. I listened to a Brene Brown talk on this. Her research shows that people with the strongest boundaries are the most compassionate individuals. When you set boundaries, you create that safe space for yourself and resentment can't fester and that allows you to show compassion because you're not angry.

I also stumbled across this great thread in the archives. There is this poster TrueGritter helping Mentalradio. And she is helping me, too. She writes a bit about finding your inner core and once you do, you stop second guessing yourself and decisions become easier and natural. I feel like I have lost this in myself as I have been living with a crazy person for some time now. And in the beginning, I didn't realize he was depressed so I was focusing there and losing my truth north.

One of the other things Truegritter writes that I want on my thread:

"Before you can know grace and love you have to experience its absence.
You have to experience its opposite so you will recognize what it is not.
Most people never have their idea of love tested.
And that is why most people will not understand what you are doing."

This has helped me tremendously as I recently have found myself being hit with an avalanche re-processing that horrific letter he wrote to me. That's not love, it's the absence of it. I have been working through so many of my issues there. Too much to post.

As for h? Well, last night I was de-cluttering my room. S10 ran up and asked me if I had seen H's computer. I said no. And I immediately thought: if he doesn't find it he will for sure accuse me of stealing it.

An hour or so later I was still cleaning and hadn't heard anything more about it so I assumed he found wherever he misplaced it. I assume the last place he brought it? I walk out to throw out some garbage and meet him in the walkway. He stares me down and says, "well, where is it?" I had kind of forgotten about it and say "where is what?" His computer, of course. I say I have no idea.

And he accuses me of stealing it. I tell him I have not. He accuses me of lying. I state one more time I had nothing to do with it and he should retrace his steps. (He is always losing things in MLC: he has left credit cards at restaurants, left things on the roof his car that fall off and break, etc.)

Well, he tells me there are no steps to retrace as he was last using it in his dorm room and of course he is in perpetual lockdown mode. I truth dart him and say "I don't go near your X Street bedroom." And I name his childhood street name. He looks surprised as that childhood room/house has centered on so many of his MLC issues. Maybe he will go and process that to connect dots. And I walk away. It's all very calm. I know that was a good and much needed dart.

But he makes a few PA comments later: funny how things disappear from a locked room. (What's next: I crawled through the 5 inch heating vent to get in there? I travel through walls?)

I do not offer to retrace steps with him. If I find that computer, he will accuse me of planting it there. Or, that upon finding it, I hacked into it. So I steer completely clear.

At one point he came upstairs and looked in the kids' closets??? He asked S12 if he'd taken it?? Later, S12 went to him and said "it's been a year and half since you have come upstairs and it was to look for your computer." S12 told him they need him upstairs more. H flubbed and said: I thought you needed your space. (Talk about projection.) S12 said they need more affection from him and reminds him S10 is only 10. S12 has his number and always has.

I am so proud of S12. H listened and was calm. He may remember this one if and when he wakes up.

It's been a year and half since he has walked up the stairs to his children's bedrooms! Imagine that. And this from a man who used to go in every night and tickle them, but them and tell them a story from history.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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