Just working the process, but wondering when......

[cbtdad]

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2680886#Post2680886

^^^^^^^^^^^^^Link to my old thread

My old thread ended with me having some R talk and losing my cool a little bit I thought. But actually when we discussed it the next morning W said that she was impressed that I walked away instead of continuing which would have led to an argument.
I am trying to have patience as everything is the R is good except that there isn't any sex and we are still in separate bedrooms. Other than that things are actually really good.
Her first semester of school will be over Monday so it will be interesting to see how her focus shifts.
I am seeing IC on Wednesday and we have MC on Thursday.
I am thinking about bringing up being back in MBR. I would like to have a goal to be in same bedroom by the time S starts school on August 11
The only reason why I want this is to feel like we are moving forward. But I don't want to push the issue either. I was going to bring it up in IC before MC on Thursday and go from there

[RSG]

When your LL is physical touch, you're going to get frustrated. PT is def my LL too. But if you're happy about where you're going, you've just gotta grin and bear it. Because, what's the alternative right?

It is really good though that she was impressed by your calmness and quelling a potential argument. That's exactly what I need to learn to do. I think it would help me immensely from a personal standpoint, as anger causes me severe stress and I can't think straight.

I'd talk about moving back into MBR before PT. Easy to say right?! But you can't put the cart before the horse....


Good luck to you, I'm rooting for you!!

[cbtdad]

Yep. That is a tough thing. It's not just about the sex to me. Holding hands, cuddling, back rubs, little slap on the behind, hugs, and kissing are all things that just make me feel close and wanted. The problem is of the 5 LL's this would be number 5 for my wife. She just has never been a "touchy feely" person. She was when we first started dating of course for the first 6 months when things were "hot and heavy"
I can't even remember the last time I kissed my W. Not a peck, but actually passionately kissed her. Maybe once in the last 5 years. She finds kissing gross. She cringes when people try to hug her.
I will say that when things were really good she was at least trying. That's why I know I have to be patient with this. Because unfortunately my verbal abusive and controlling ways really shut her down from me.
This is why I am willing to take the first steps. But at some point for us to have a happy marriage she is going to have to compromise on some things as well or we will never work.
And I have fully accepted that that may be the case, but will try everything before I just walk away

[RSG]

I used to love it when she'd just put her hand on my back and drag it across while she walked by. When she'd touch my head (I shave it bald, it feels really good when touched!), put her hand on my leg while I drove, etc etc. I agree, it would probably be 4th on WW's list. She finds anything other than a peck gross, unless she's REALLY in the mood to fool around. And yeah, she hates hugs.

I think, like Cnut, your old lady is trying to compromise. It sounds like from what you say she's taking baby steps on PT, but if you push she's likely to withhold and things will stagnate. I'd go with movement back into MBR, I think that's a nice compromise....but feels like so little to us PTers lol

[cbtdad]

I haven't posted in a few days. Just kind of been laying low.
I had an IC appointment that went well on Wednesday. We discussed how things were going in my life and how I've really opened up about my verbally abusive and controlling ways. I even sent my dad an email about it and sent him a copy of the book I read. He was very receptive. I talked to my IC about how things are going so well other than being in separate bedrooms and lack of PT. She said that I need to remember where things were a couple months ago and compare them to now. That it's still going to take time. I told her that I would like to be back in MBR by the time S starts school which is on August 11th. She said that she thought I should bring that up as a goal in MC. And that when I brought it up to just let W know that it's about moving forward, not about PT or sex.
We went to MC yesterday. It went well. W said she is noticing a difference, but is still hyperfocused on her school, our son, and her mom. She is compartmentalizing everything. I said that I have noticed how much she has on her plate and that my goal right now is to try and make it easier. This is a complete 180 for me! I was always adding to the stress. She pointed out a few examples. How I backed her up against a neighbor and took her side. That we are able to communicate when we are mad at each other and what we are mad about. That when she sees my name pop up on her phone that she doesn't get anxiety and start getting stressed.
Overall it was very good MC session, but I never brought up being back in MBR by August 11th. In the end I don't know why I didn't bring it up. Maybe I was afraid of her reaction. Maybe I am hoping she will bring it up and request that. In any event it didn't get brought up, but I plan to in the next MC session.
Fast forward to last night. We had people over. W and I were getting along all night. Joking, drinking wine, just having fun
Later on after everyone left she laid on the couch. She put her feet on my lap, something she hasn't done in a long time. I ended up giving her a foot and calf massage. Too which she was very receptive and didn't pull away at all.
After that she went and took a bath and then we watched some shows together in the MBR. But in the end I went back to the guest bedroom.
All in all I definitely think things are headed in the right direction. It's just having the patience. Like me and my IC discussed, I am giving a lot and my love tank is not being refilled. In the end that is what can cause resentment and anger. I told IC that I am done putting "dates" on things as far as staying or leaving. I am not going to live in a sexless marriage, but things continue to be headed in the right direction so I am not going to define it either

[uRworthy]

Hey there...memba me?

You've been at this for some time, my friend. It's hard, yea? Really hard.

So, it seems to me, that you want to know without a single doubt that you did all you could.

That requires you to dig in when it gets tough. She needs to know, without a single doubt, that your changes are real. She needs to know that things arent going to change again.

I know that it is very difficult at times for you. But I also know what you are made of, C. I know that you have hung in there for a long while.

You will know when you have had enough. You arent there yet.

You said you werent going to put dates on things..yet you want her back in the MB by Aug. 11th. So, which is it?

Continue showing her who you are becoming. Continue becoming the best version of you....for you. Put the focus on you and your child and try not to look at what you need to happen and when. Just keep moving forward.

You got this.

[cbtdad]

uRworthy!! How could I forget you my friend:)
I'm so glad to hear from you. I've quoted you a few times on others threads.
Especially this one:
"Whether you worry or not has no effect on the outcome. But, moving forward, letting go, and making changes can"

"Trying to understand the "crazy" is never gonna pay off for you..
Try to accept the the new reality of what is happening around you, and not let you mind wander to the land of "what ifs" and "whys"
There are a lot of scary creatures that live there...
What she is doing, doesn't make you better, or her worse, it is what it is...
It doesn't mean it always has to be this way..."

You were so helpful my first time around here and really taught me the value of patience. And here you are again to remind me:)

I know you are right. She wants to see lasting change. I thought I had changed the things I needed to the last time around except now I realize that I didn't know the true problem I had. Now I know. It's like I can see clearly now.
She is still skeptical, but is definitely noticing changes
Now that I think about it, I'm thinking maybe that's why I didn't bring it up in MC because I don't really want to put any time stamps on anything right now
We will be staying in the MBR together tomorrow night though. We have guest coming in town. So this will be a little test run I guess
So glad you dropped by uRworthy!!

[uRworthy]

Hi, C. I am honored that you have remembered my words.

It's so hard to have patience. It's like you know in your head who you could be and what this marriage could be and you just want to get to that.

But the thing is that this all needs to be done slowly. Because when it is done slowly, with intent and purpose and commitment, it builds a strong foundation. When you have that, it can handle the ebbs and flow and challenges that relationships bring.

If you rush it before either of you are truly ready, the foundation cannot weather it.

Get good with you. Get to where you know longer have to question whether you have changed. When you know deep in your soul that who you are is real. The rest will follow.

The more you try to push things...the more she will try to push back. Leave her to figure her stuff out.

[Accuray]

Yep. That is a tough thing. It's not just about the sex to me. Holding hands, cuddling, back rubs, little slap on the behind, hugs, and kissing are all things that just make me feel close and wanted. The problem is of the 5 LL's this would be number 5 for my wife. She just has never been a "touchy feely" person. She was when we first started dating of course for the first 6 months when things were "hot and heavy"
I can't even remember the last time I kissed my W. Not a peck, but actually passionately kissed her. Maybe once in the last 5 years. She finds kissing gross. She cringes when people try to hug her.

Reading this made me very sad. I was talking to another person I met on this board years ago last night. We're both single now, and were both commenting on the fact that when you get married the first time it's really so hard to evaluate what you're getting into.

We have both found through dating that relationships are SO much easier if you start out with someone with the same LL and roughly the same sex drive.

Those two differences create *so much* pain and frustration in a long term relationship on both sides. It is simply much easier to give what you like to receive because you fully understand it and why it's valuable.

Let's fast forward 2 years and pretend you're back in the master bedroom, you're having some kind of sex life again.

Your W will never be a "touchy feely" person. She may never like kissing. I don't know how well your sex drives are matched, but based on what you've described there seems to be at least some awkwardness there on your W's side.

These things are going to bother you on an ongoing basis.

Could your W work on these things for your benefit to make the relationship better? Yes

Will she be motivated to do so? Probably not, because to her, and from her perspective, nothing is really broken other than your failure to accept how she is.

This is what is so difficult about your situation from my perspective. You want to get back into the MBR, you want to resume a sex life, you want to save your marriage! You, my friend, are highly motivated.

Your W, on the other hand, seems to have one foot out. She's telling you directly that all the other things going on in her life take priority over you and your needs.

When she's telling you that directly, where is she going to find motivation to care about what you want and what you need?

The difference between her "WANTING to come back" versus "accepting a gradual return to the prior status quo" is monumental in its significance. In the latter case she's never really fully bought in. In the latter case she's not motivated to make any changes for your benefit, or to prioritize your needs. Her motivation will be to do the absolute minimum she believes she needs to do to preserve the relationship until she decides she no longer wants to be in it.

That is why I recommended moving out and giving each other some space. I still truly believe very strongly that will be the best long-term strategy for you to have a happy marriage with your wife. It will hurt like hell in the short term, and it will feel "wrong" in many ways, but I think it's the shortest path to what *you* really want.

Acc

[cbtdad]

Yes uRworthy it is very hard to have patience. And I agree this needs to be done slowly this time around. I think we really rushed back into things last time and it didn't get to root of the problems. I know I have to be "good" with me first of foremost or this will not work, nor will any other R in the future, if I don't. I am very thankful that you have showed back up with my patience:)

Acc,
I completely understand and hear everything you are saying. It has me worried as well. It's why I question myself in this marriage a lot over the last 4 or 5 months. Its the reason I was contemplating walking out myself a few months ago. I then started to realize that she had shut herself down emotionally to me which then led to the shutting me down physically as well.
I don't think W will ever have my sex drive. It's something you either have or you don't. She also won't ever me in to "making out" or hand holding constantly. But I am ok with that as long as there is an effort. And that's the thing Acc, for about a 3 or 4 month stretch last year I saw what could have been. She was putting in the effort even though it isn't her LL. I don't expect her to ever put that first, but as long is she is trying is what I need. She would kiss me goodbye before I left, hug me when I got home. We were having great sex at least once a week.
There are so many other things that she does that makes me happy that as long as she is meeting me in the middle then I can be ok with that.
I do believe she had a foot out the door, so did I.
But I think she is now sticking her toe back in slowly.
She just finished her first semester of school today. So I am really going to pay attention the next month.
I agree with you on the moving out aspect if I don't see things continue to change. But overall they seem to be heady in the right direction.
We had some out of town guests last night so I stayed in MBR.
I didn't initiate anything, but noticed she got closer to me when I got in bed.
Everything I have read on verbal abuse seems to be playing out. It's just going to take time on my part.
I appreciate the advice as always and I see a lot of it in my situation.