A lot of that post up there... Total mind reading on your part.... Reading the minds of others is pretty tough... Reading the minds of MLCrs impossible
Ok I am on the computer so maybe this might clear things up a touch .... and I am not intending to be harsh here but you can not mind read a MLCr without going nuts yourself.
Originally Posted By: Brubeck
My problem with going into unexplained absences is that she doesn't want to know if I disappear, although I've done it. Before her MLC, if I was getting ready to go out she would ask "where are you going?" Now in MLC she just verifies "Going out?" She doesn't want any explanation for when I leave the house, that way she can tell herself "he's with another woman".
You can not control what she does nor what she thinks ... the MLCr is extremely skilled at making this all our fault regardless of what we do, did, will do. Its going to happen anyways, you know the truth so let her spin/spew and do what she will. This GAL/180/PMA is all about you ... not her.
Originally Posted By: Brubeck
I know my W, if I disappear, she will tell herself that I'm out cheating - it will justify her own A to her.
Ok ... mind reading, and hate to say it .. you do not know her right now, you knew her and who she was before this.... this person she is now you only know becasue she looks just like your W, but she is not who you once knew.
Originally Posted By: Brubeck
I just became the Ops. Manager at my company. I'm swamped these days. I've spent a couple of Sunday afternoons going into the office to catch up. My W makes a point to call me at the office EVERY TIME I go in. I bet it's to make sure I'm there.
Sunday from last week I left the office and went straight to a friend's house. I stayed there from 9 till midnight. She called my cell twice at 11 pm - which I bet was the exact time her friends left.
Yesterday I went to the office on a Sunday afternoon and she called me there TWICE. The second time she mentioned the boys were asking for Little Caesar's pizza. I'll bet anything this was her way of trying to get me to come home with pizza instead of going out. It was also probably her ploy to get me home so she could go to her MLC friend's house.
All mind reading there, she may have an agenda, or maybe she is manipulating you and setting her schedule up who knows ... not your circus not your monkeys you are living to much of HER life and not your own right now. ... and it shows you have work to do in the detachment arena, I almost said that with a straight face as I am the poster boy with having a hard time in detaching... I get it .. its tough but over time you will get there, you have to. This MLC thing isnt a short quick process, it takes time and both the LBS and MLCr have to go on their own journeys ... I firmly believe that.
Brubeck - But, she's already okay with having her affair. You're not going away and yet the affair goes on. She'll find some reason, any reason to make herself feel justified in doing what she does. So, why not take care of you? Is it your problem if she is upset you leave to take care of your needs? Is it your problem to worry about what she is speculating? You know the truth. You know you deserve a break (you and your friends have said so) and that you're not having an affair.
Several months before my h bombed me I was playing a competitive tennis match. We were 3 hours in and it was a great match. My h (who was watching the kids) texted me totally out of the blue and accused me of being out having an affair!! It threw me off and I lost that match. He got in my head. Between games we were having the most bizarre exchange. When I returned home he still insisted I was fooling around. Even though I was 5 minutes away and told him he could drive over to the court and see me playing! It was a MLC trailer of what was to come!
The MLCer does believe we think the way he/she thinks. And a few months later at BD, he came to me telling me he wanted to sleep around but still live at home! He told me I could sleep around, too. No lie!!! And now it made sense why he thought I was having an affair; because he himself was fantasizing about affairs.
I regret coming home and trying to reason with him. I regret letting him in my headspace and losing that match. But, I am so happy that I doubled down on tennis and moved up in level. It has been so good for me (physically and socially) and it makes me so happy. I could have quit tennis but he would always find some other fault with me. Soon, when I went to Trader Joe's or the hair salon, he could accuse me of fooling around there, too. Maybe it would get the point that he would accuse me of having an affair in the bushes before I got the mail. Even if I sat home on my hands and just stared at the door, waiting for his return, he would slam me for something else. He was laying the bricks to justifying all sorts of nasty, selfish things he desperately wanted to do.
When you live with the MLCer, if you don't take care of you and get away from the MLCer regularly, you start to drink the MLC Kool-Aid. You don't even know it's happening because you've been taking such small, little sips.
I am not suggesting you go away to pique your wife's curiosity or to play games with her. I am suggesting you do it to begin to detach and to find ways to take care of you, for you and your kids.
Let me ask you. If you go away, what are you worried she will do? And would that be a logical response? What have you lost if she reacts they way you are worried she will react? What would you tell your sons to do if, as adults, they were in this situation? Do you deserve to take care of you? Or should you just work full time, support your family and worry about what your irrational, depressed wife thinks?
I certainly am not telling you what to do. However, I do suggest those of us with live-in MLCers evaluate why we are making the decisions we are making.
The first time I went away for a night, my h was already living downstairs in a self-made dorm room. When I returned he didn't speak to me for weeks. And, he packed half of his remaining clothes from the master bedroom closet into a suitcase! See? He was trying to scare me. He knew I really didn't want my kids to have a broken home. He left the packed suitcase next to the trunk of his car for weeks! And he knew he could trap me with that fear. It took me a few weeks to realize, if he left me for that, then good riddance. I did nothing wrong and yes, given all the crazy that was going on, I deserved a break. By the way, Job, if you're reading, I had to move the suitcase a few weeks ago and it was empty. He moved his clothes out of the suitcase and into the dorm room!!
How should you take care of you in this process that is a very long one? I am 1 1/2 years post BD and my h still lives here.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read. This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first. Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
Part of my W's MLC is a sudden interest in painting. She got into a painting class with one of her MLC friends where you can BYOB. She declared how much she LOVED painting, so for Mother's Day I bought her an easel and a bunch of canvas. She told her MLC friend it was the best Mother's Day gift ever, but she has not taken the easel out of the box.
Still, she went on and on about how much she loved the Sip & Paint class. She and her MLC friend scheduled a private one for them and their friends. They spent weeks planning everything - snacks, music, etc. W kept telling her MLC friend how excited she was. They had to secure 8 others for a private party. They spent hours on Facebook hounding alumni from grade school and high school and pretty much anybody who would listen. W even invited my sister, who she doesn't get along with. They could only come up with 5 other people.
Saturday night was the painting party. My W arrives home at 10:30. She has NO painting with her. She goes straight to bed. Texts from her MLC/painting friend show up on the tablet my S7 is using. "How are you?" "Are you OK?" Photos of the party appear on Facebook the next morning. W was clearly bombed drunk. To be clear - she looks s%#tfaced, which doesn't happen often with her. She sleeps for 12 hours.
That morning she tells her other MLC friend on the phone that she drank no more than she usually does. She comes to the bathroom where I am cleaning a mess that S4 left at the toilet. She greets me with what sounds like a genuine "Thank you". Early in the afternoon, her friend C.P., who also went to the class, brings over the painting W left at the art studio. While W is in the kitchen for a moment I ask C.P. how the class went. She smiles and says "Oh, fine" and then - while still smiling - makes a face of crossing her eyes and wagging her tongue while shaking her index finger towards the kitchen. C.P. leaves the painting by the front door. W never takes any notice of the painting. I take it away to the bedroom so S2 won't get his hands on it. I don't ask W anything about her evening or her obvious hangover.
Later that afternoon, I'm grilling in the backyard with all the boys playing. W is laying on the bed. I'm out of aluminum foil. I tell S7 to watch his brothers while I walk to the corner store. W and I don't mind the boys in the backyard by themselves if we're within earshot, and the back door was open. Both entryways into the backyard have automatic locks.
I'm not gone 5 minutes when I see the corner store is closed. I turn around. I'm approaching the steps of the house when my cell shows it's W calling. I don't answer because I'm just about there. Before I can open the front door, she opens it. She's crying. HEAVY crying. She tells me that S4 figured out how to unlock the front gate and him and S2 were standing there in front of the house. S7 had gone inside immediately to tell W they were out.
Normally, W would have been angry as hell and screaming bloody murder at me. This time she was crying - hardcore. She sits down on one end of the couch. I sit next to her, put my arm around her, and explain to the boys that Mom is crying because she got scared. W and I share we were both unaware that S4 knew how to unlock the front gate. She keeps crying. I'm still expecting her to start ranting, but I just stay there with her for a few minutes with my arm around her. Once she seems composed, I get up and return outside, taking the boys with me. I'm scratching my head as to why she got into a crying fit instead of starting a screaming match, which is what she would normally do.
I do pajamas & bedtime with the boys while she's watching Game of Thrones on her tablet. She rises at 3:20 and leaves the bed to go sleep with the boys on the lower bunk bed. Awaken, I quickly use the bathroom and return to bed. She immediately comes back into the room and gets back into bed. She calmly asks me "you're awake, right? I heard you go to the bathroom." Yes, I am.
"We have to start communicating more about how we're going to parent together". She starts tearing up, but not at bad as earlier. She goes on - "We have to figure out how we're going to raise our kids together. I know we're fighting right now and and I know we're angry at each other right now, but we have to figure this out."
She's keeping calm. I am reminding myself I have to validate her feelings, and I must keep calm - but I have to differentiate my own perception on the situation we're in. Without pointing fingers, by speaking only for myself, I say "Well let me clarify that we're not fighting, we're just not speaking to each other, and you are angry with me, I am not angry with you."
"Well, we're playing games." I don't know what she means by this and I know it's useless to try and makes sense of her MLC logic. I'm not playing games, I will communicate ANYTHING regarding the kids or the house. I just validate. "I'm sorry you got scared. I didn't know S4 could unlock the front gate. I know it freaked you out."
She switches the topic again. "We have to work out a schedule". I ask for what. She specifically wants a schedule for assigning who gets the boys ready for bed. She says "when I go for my jog at night you get the boys ready for bed, so we should work something out." Then, her voice trails off - because none of this makes sense. Whether she's out for a jog or not - I get the boys ready for bed 90% of the time, including that very evening. Since going into the tunnel, she hardly ever notices their bedtime and half the time she forgets to feed them dinner as well. I don't know what she means by this.
I just validate - "OK, I will do better to communicate with you about handling what the boys need. I'm sorry about what happened today. I will work harder at this for you. I'm sorry." She says I don't have to apologize and sounds a bit more relaxed. I briefly stroke her head twice and go to sleep.
M: 49, W: 45 T: 22 M: 15 S14, S11, S9 BD: Jan '16 W files: Oct '16 D final: June '18
W feels some guilt about neglecting the kids. She moves her jogging back 1 hour to 10 PM so she can help with bedtime. This keeps me up til midnight with S2, who sometimes stays up late. I ask her repeatedly to help by being home earlier. Finally, I tell her yesterday - you have to start jogging at 9 PM so you can be home earlier. I have to get up at 6:30 (she sleeps in til 9 or 10). That very night, she goes jogging at 9, comes home, changes, and then with a smug look says she's going out for beers with MLC friend #1 - just after I told I need to go to bed earlier.
She stays out til 1. I wait for her to come home. After avoiding conflicts for over a month - I confront her about the recent overspending ($200 one Saturday night, $100 the next), about her having the D talk with S7 behind my back, and for purposely staying out late after I asked her to be more accommodating that I have to get up so early to go to work to pay all the bills, including her reason for being these days - her precious cell phone.
At first, she pouted and listened while staring at the wall (she never makes eye contact when she's lying or in the wrong). Over a very short period of time, she grows increasingly angry, having no defense besides repeatedly screaming either "Shut the f%#k up" or "f*%k you".
I ask her what she's planning to do when she gets rid of me and then soon realizes that it's not the answer to all of her problems. She only replies with "whatever".
I tell her that the rest of the family is happy (the kids & I) and that SHE is the one who is miserable and that I will not let her make the rest of us unhappy. I tell her the best option may be to go somewhere else for a while and "figure yourself out". She grows instantly defensive, saying "this is my house" over and over (and it isn't, nothing pertaining to the house is in her name).
I hate pointing out that I pay all the bills, because I don't feel it's something worth mentioning. I feel that as a husband & a father, I am supposed to pay the bills. However, she is now getting in the way of my sleep, and I'm not having that. I am trying to adhere to doormat techniques, but there are some things I'm not putting up with.
She also encourages me AGAIN to go out and see other women and see if there's someone else that may be better suited for me than her. She says again how there was a time where the thought of me with another woman would have felt like a stab in the heart, but now it "doesn't faze me". This is clearly her massive GUILT rearing it's ugly head about her A (which she still thinks I'm clueless about).
On the phone again with MLC friend #1 this morning (who's just as miserable as her) and she's contemplating the pros & cons of calling a lawyer. She wants to know how can she get divorced if she has no job? What kind of job can she get in 3 months (I'm guessing 3 months is some length of time someone else told her it takes). She hasn't had a job in 11 years. She says she's looking for a job, but I know she's gone as long as 5 weeks without submitting a resume, and she's never submitted more than 4 applications during a day of job hunting.
She tells MLC friend #1 the same b.s. line she said to me, that she's on the phone all night in order to avoid me, because if we socialize she thinks she'll be sending me false hope. She's also acknowledged that the endless phone discussion is also 'distraction'. It's just her running away from her own life by talking about nonsense on the phone with OM.
Regarding the whole thing, she keeps telling MLC friend #1 "I don't know! I don't know!"
She is angry, vague and massively confused.
M: 49, W: 45 T: 22 M: 15 S14, S11, S9 BD: Jan '16 W files: Oct '16 D final: June '18
I realize I am stuck right now. It's because I have this hate in my heart for W. I hate her for her MLC. I don't want to feel this way. I want to have PMA, I want to be compassionate.
The DB boards have explained 99% of her behavior. I know the signs. I know she's in Replay. However, my eyes deceive me. I've got both hands full dealing with the damage she's causing to our family (by way of neglect), but all I see is someone having fun. I hate her for reasons I shouldn't, but I do.
Feelings arise and they shouldn't be suppressed. I have to deal with these feelings and these are feelings that just overwhelm me. I'm 42 and I've never had to deal with such heavy emotions in my existence. I hate the person my W is now. I accept that she's in the tunnel and it has regressed her into a 38 year old teenager, but I absolutely hate this selfish child. She relies on me for everything but cannot be bothered to say good morning. I pay for the cell phone she uses all evening to tell OM what an awful chef I am while she eats the very food I cooked that night because she doesn't bother doing that anymore.
I am not expecting the old W to ever come back, and I know she's not going to resemble a responsible adult anytime soon.
I don't want this hate in my heart, but it's there. I am so bothered by the hate that it makes me cry. All I can do is focus on our children to distract myself. I can be PMA with the kids.
I know I cannot progress as a human being unless I deal with this. I cannot move forward without learning how to forgive, or at least, not to hate her. I don't know how to rise above. I don't know what to do.
M: 49, W: 45 T: 22 M: 15 S14, S11, S9 BD: Jan '16 W files: Oct '16 D final: June '18
Brubeck, I am sorry you are going through this. You and your children do not deserve any of it. I have been reading the boards since around October 2015 when my husband suprised me with filed divorce papers, the ILY but not in love with you talk and moved in to our lake house. I have not posted my situation but have found strength, compassion, and understanding beyond belief from what others are dealing with and the advice being given to them. I too have days that are set backs and days that I find myself angry and I do not have the stress of dealing with my ex on a day to day basis nor do I have children to worry about. It sounds like your like of sleep is also contributing to your stress and everything is exponentially worse when you have not had enough sleep. I don't know if there is anything you can do to get son to sleep any earlier but I would start working on that is possible. Is there anyway you can have your schedule adjusted to let you go in to work an hour or two later for a few weeks until things get more settled? Would your doctor write you a note if necessary? I know I found it difficult to sleep for the first 6 months and I still have relapses. I listened to meditation subliminal tapes to help me sleep in the beginning. I found one on divorce and one on deep sleep that I rotated on my Amazon music player on my phone. I tended to sleep better after listening to those. The other thing I did when the stress got to much was to take an Aleve. I read somewhere going through divorce is literally like physically actually having your heart hurt and that pain meds can help with that. I do not know if that is true but it helped me even if it was just a placebo effect.
The main thing you need to do is to take care of yourself. If you crash you won't be able to help your kids. Your wife is responsible for herself. Just like in the airplane when they tell you to put on your oxygen mask first so that you can then take care of your children you need to take care of yourself. Speak to your doctor, let them know what is happening. If possible consider going to a counselor for you. Take care of yourself. You did not create the situation you are dealing with. It is important to remember that, and that you are dealing with a selfish teenager in an adults body. You have to ignore her tantrums and crazy behavior and focus on you and then your kids.
I hope things look a little better when you get some sleep. I can tell you are an amazing person. Hold on and take care.
Keth
Me:45 H: 45 No kids; split custody of 2 dogs T 20 yrs; M17yrs BD/ ILYNILWY/ divorce filed / he moved out 10/03/2015 Divorce final 12/15 Looking back he showed signs of MLC for at least year before BD
Hi Brubeck - I am sorry you are dealing with all this anger right now. I remember that palpable anger. In the beginning its presence was constant. Obviously, it's very normal given the circumstances. It's really good that you are recognizing the need to get over it for your own wellbeing.
This is where GAL and other tools come into play. I know this is extremely difficult in your situation due to the fact that you have young kids that need attending.
It's necessary to find a way to get the stress out and this will help with anger. Everyone uses different methods. Some people begin by breaking plates or hitting pillows!
My kids were on the younger side when this all started so I felt the need to be present as well. Things I did: reorganize and clean the garage (very exhausting), clean the house and with my kids: hike, bike and walk the dog, etc. When on my own, I do more rigorous hikes, jumped levels in tennis (very therapeutic to hit a ball) and recently, I have taken up volleyball.
Starting a weekly routine where you can do something rigorous by yourself is probably a very good idea. This will help you start to GAL, which is key through all this.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
It's so hard to turn her off. I know I can't believe anything W says, but I can't disregard everything either. It's tough not to believe what I hear and see. She sounds so pragmatic, that she's made up her mind, even though she's still incredibly lazy.
W says she's obsessed with losing weight. She still tells her friends the plan is to reach her goal weight, leave me, and hit the singles scene (curious to see her jogging through a Chicago winter). She's still speaks of getting a job and a driver's license (she's borderline blind), but she hasn't done much for either.
I am worried my W will leave me thinking it's better out there when she doesn't even know what it's like. She's a good person, but she's ALWAYS been lazy, and her MLC hasn't changed that too much. She certainly doesn't want to deal with all the work involved in being a single mother. She thinks it's going to be "Sex and the City" for her. She's going to be exhausted.
I tell myself she's in the tunnel, but she sounds so lucid and sure of herself. She really sounds convinced that everything is going to be better without me. However, I am enabling the lifestyle she ALWAYS chose for herself; she's still staying up til 1-2-3 in the morning playing video games or watching TV, she's still sleeping in til 9 or 10 and spending the first hour of her day on Facebook. She's still saying gotta get a job...gotta get out on my own, but mostly spending all day on the telephone and tending to Mom duties only when necessary.
W scored a babysitting gig. It's only for the summer. When she called me to tell me about the babysitting gig, she said she had butterflies in her stomach. She was nervous. What's the big deal? It's just babysitting. She's already got 3 kids in the same age range. I think of Hearts Blessing rule #22 about depression in MLCers and wonder if she's scared of the responsibility.
W is getting $120 a week, but she told me she's only getting $80 a week. More lies. She laughed about this with her friends. I asked her what she's going to do with the money. She coyly said "I don't know". I have to be the jerk again and tell her to put the money into savings.
M: 49, W: 45 T: 22 M: 15 S14, S11, S9 BD: Jan '16 W files: Oct '16 D final: June '18
