Re: Infidelity/WAH, my story pt 3

[PsySara]

part 1

part 2

Quick run down:
October 4 2015 WH states he having an emotional affair with a COW and wants to take it further (he used the guise of polygamy which is allowed in Islam but definitely not under these circumstances) I was 5 months pregnant with our 3rd child. I manage to restore deleted text messahes that indicated a PA and confront WH, he confesses to having sex with 21 year old COW, no prtection and still wants to make her a second wife. My answer was not only no but he// no! I made him promise NC which he broke numerous times before sneding her a NC text in Nox 2015.

Jan 2016: COW/AP returns to work after surgery and WH walks up to her breaks NC just "to talk" the bottom falls out and I spend the entire night threatening to expose them, he begs me to reconsider and I do. At the end of the month I give birth to our son while WH stands in the room but barely interacts with me. February he tells me he does not love me nor wants a future with me, I was destroyed. March he mentions contacting COW to ask her to reconsider him, I send a certified letter to her parents and call inlaws and spill the beans, WH calls and tells me he will do anything to prevent divorce as he doesn't want to lose the kids.

April 2016: I start DBing half way through the month, start GALing while being detached from WH. WH remains cold and sometimes even hostile. I find out in June he had taken the affair underground and even used a burner phone as he knows I keep track of his phone records. COW and him resume sex but she cools towards WH and eventually they stop communicating by end of April.

MAy-June: we start to come together until I get a funny feeling and directly ask him if he had been in touch with AP. He thought I had intel and confessed to April. I crash and burn but quickly put my DBing tools back in place and detach again. WH sees this and starts to realize he is about to lose his wife and children.

Jnue 2016: WH went from deciding to continue to work out of state to complete 180 and is now requesting we piece. He has asked for us to have MC (something he flatly refused before) and showing signs of true remorse. He interviewed for a local job and now plans to move home with me in September. He answers all questions I ask, gives 100% transparency and tells me he will do whatever it takes for however long. He also states he feels extremely worried he will relapse if OW walks back into the picture but states he will call me immediately if this occurs. It's not perfect but I think there is hope.

[rich4j]

SS

I love seeing progress as many of the stories here are sad and have moved to far for piecing (such as mine)

Your a strong person as I have been lurking around your sitch and posted a few times. I must say having 3 youngsters and doing what you are doing is amazing and I congratulate you for sticking in there. I am not sure how he could/would do what he has to be quite honest with the 3 young ones to begin with...sorry if that sounds harsh

What type of MC will you be doing? I hope its about really reconnecting at the core as I have had friends and myself who have gone thru some very blah MC. One of my relatives had tremendous success with EFT (emotionally focused therapy).

Glad there is hope and keep strong!

[Natus]

Hi SadSara, great to hear hes coming around.

Like rich4j says you are extremely strong to take on all this with little ones and pregnant even.

You're H seem like a real scum for doing all that to you. Are you sure you want him back? Make sure you make him work his a$$ for it. He better be treating you like a queen to have any chance back in the M.

[SH_]

Take it slow and steady my dear Sara.
Slow and steady.

You deserve the peace and good news.

Have a wonderful evening.

[JksD]

Good news on the positive turn, Sara. But like what the others have said, be cautiously optimistic.

What do you think had worked for you so far? This is what I think; please feel free to add to it:

Being strong and keeping it together for your kids
Being positive without lashing out
Effective 180s - keeping your cool, flirting with your H, turning the sexy on

Keep doing the things that worked. Monitor and adapt along the way.

Your H is being honest with you about the attraction of the OW. Did you validate and thank him? It does take a lot to express remorse, acknowledge hurt and to admit his attraction to OW.

Maybe you could say something like you understand it may take some time for him to get over the OW, and ask how you can make the process easier for him.

Have you come up with a transparency plan? Did you tell him about what you need from him?

Phew!

Take it slow, Sara. Trust but verify. Btw, I think it is important that your H knows that you will be verifying his statements. Make sure that your H is backing his words with actions.

This is JMO, but I think there's a fine line between making sure your H is doing the work to repair and build a better M, and punishing him for the A. A smart gal like you will know where to draw the line.

BTW, how are your GALs coming along? I think GALing and PMA help keep your H on his toes and not take you for granted because you're not needy and clingy.

[PsySara]

Rich,
I looked for (and found) a Gottman based MC with EFT training and technique. Her prices are pretty steep but divorce is more expensive so I look at it as an investment.

Natus,
It's like there are two people inside my WH, the loving, caring man I married vs. this selfish, arrogant body snatcher that has emerged. I don't want the latter back and will not accept a cheater back into my marriage. I deserve a trustworthy, hard working, HONEST husband and will wait (not forever) for him to emerge.

SH,
I have to keep reminding myself that this is a marathon not a sprint. I am impatient by nature so a HUGE 180 is waiting, waiting waiting.

Jksd,
That was extremely helpful advice/direction. I hit a bit of a bump last night so I will update below and look forward to any insights my DBing friends can provide.

WH was telling me about his struggles when thinking about OW. He said if she came to his door now he would ask her to speak to her parents and if they were ok then he would go ahead and marry her (as a second wife.) Of course this put my into a pretty bad funk and I told WH that it woldn't be as a second wife but as his only wife as I would divorce. WE got into a bit of a squabble as he felt he can't verbalize his fears/desires as it sets me off. I, on the other hand, feel he needs to remember I am a human being and not just some piece of furniture that can be used and then cast aside when a newer, shiner one comes along. This spiraled into an argument where I reminded him about the lies that started this whole fiasco (he initally denied any sex between him and OW when bringing up second wife) and he said it wasn't lying but rather "hiding." At that point I just needed space and got up and slept in the spare room.

Good thing I have a DBing coaching session today because I am at an impasse with how to handle WH's inability to face his demons. As long as he can't acknowledge and work through the behaviors and mindset which led him to cheat then I have no guarantee that he won't cheat again. He still feels he did everything with "good intentions" and is pretty foggy. Of course I lost a lot of sleep last night while autopsying the conversation but have locked 180 back in place.

[SH_]

Sandi may be able to share some thoughts. I know she helps out the LBH with WW, but so much of what you share makes your WH sound as if he has the same thoughts, addiction and behaviors.

I don't have any practical advice except for keep your focus on you and the children. Your H really needs an IC to help him sort his head out I would say.

((((Sara))))

[J5K]

Sara,

Good job, you handled it well. You set your boundary and commanded respect. I am praying for you. You are a strong and amazing woman. Arguments are ok, and your quickness to recover to get back to your 180s is awesome!

Keep it up girl!

[JksD]

Oh man, it must really hurt for you to hear that from your H. The pendulum is still swinging.

I must put this as a disclaimer: I totally svck at holding my tongue and my snarky remarks in. So, I know how hard it is to be in your position.

(((Sara)))

What I am asking you to do is actually not within my ability, but you sound so much stronger than me.

Hold onto your strength and your sass, and your boundaries.

Tell him very calmly that you appreciate him being honest with you. Say that you love your H and your family but you will not share your H with another woman.

I do agree that he must eventually face his demons and cut off the OW.

Maybe other dbers can step in to help? What did your db coach say?

Sara, is it possible to get babysitters for your kids and step up on your GAL to take your mind off things a little?

You've been through a lot in a very ahort time and sweetie, you need a break now. Doing nothing is also an action. If you're not sure about how to act, then don't for the time being.

[PsySara]

SH,
Alas he still is very opposed to IC but he has shown interest in reading the Nice Guy book. I think if he follows through then maybe it will help him work through his poor coping skills and maladaptive behavior. Hope spring eternal, eh?

JimKao,
I think surprised my WH by doing the 180 the next day. I used to give him the aloof, cold treatment for days after arguments but the next morning I was bright and happpy with him. I even continued to use affection and he actually thanked me for my kindness. I like keeping him guessing instead of finding his assumptions were true about me. WAS are notorious for thinking their beliefs about their spouses are unshakable. When we consistently prove their assumptions wrong through behavior then it forces them to realize their thinking may not be the final word of authority.

JksD,
I am listening, I really am. I have told my WH very clearly that I will not share my husband with anyone. While he feels he can re-nig on his promises I simply will not be a party to his editing. My Db coach states I handled everything very well and I should continue staying the course. He also encouraged me to take more care of myself now that I have the resources to do so.

This week has been pretty good. We bought fireworks and set them off while the kids squealed and jumped around. We also bought a LOT of furniture and necessities for my home. Slowly but surely I am building my nest and getting settled in. My WH made the offer to sell one of his cars off so I could buy a nice new car to drive back and forth to work. I felt very conflicted about this and asked my DBing coach bluntly for advice. He felt that my WH needs to feel needed, he felt this was a way to build attachment and said it would likely be beneficial to allow WH to do something nice for me.

Since WH will be gone for 3 weeks (he will be returning for two short days this week for Eid) then I said I will decide when he returns. WH also thanked me for dressing so sexy while he's home as he says it reminds him of what he has at home. I smiled seductively and told him we could always FaceTime while he's away and "feed his craving." His eyes almost popped out of his head, this is very unlike me, I think he may come to love the 180.

I am having a fun time driving him crazy with my sexy. I also struggle with intrusive thoughts about the OW and if she tries to slither back into the picture. But I have no control over her or WH and can only be classy, sexy and intelligent. If WH can't see my worth then he is about smart as a box of hair.

[JksD]

Sara,
Good to hear that you're keeping strong! I am rooting for you!

And here's an advance selamat hari raya adilfitri to you.

[SH_]

You are a DBing superwoman Sara.

You are going to come out of this on top no matter what he finally decides to do.
He is one lucky dude to have a W like you that stands for marriage and family the way you do.
With all of your sass and sexy there will be no shortage of bright future for you no matter what happens.

I hope I get the chance to shake your hand someday, because what I see from you know from what I saw when you first joined this community is absolutely amazing. Enjoy the festive weekend and keep on doing your thing girl.

[PsySara]

Thank you JksD!

SH,
Thank you so much, that helped my sometimes waning ego.

WH had to return to his work state last evening and he called quite a bit. He is very nervous that OW might try to come back and he has been frank that he is not sure how he will react. Strangely enough I am not as anxious as he is. We did have a poorly timed R conversation before he left and it almost spiraled into an argument. But WH did step up to the plate and tell me a few things that helped my concerns. He said I was worthy of fighting for, that while his love for me is different than the lave he felt for OW he believes his love for me is more wholesome and appropriate. He even used words like "selfish love" when describing what he felt for OW. I tried to keep my lips zipped and occasionally validate.

One thing that has helped me immensely in DBing is the thought to make the marriage a good place for WH to be and make his affair relationship a bad place. While my exposure went counter to DBing techniques my WH says that OW cooled towards him considerably when I exposed her towards her parents. He says they no longer went out to eat or to places together because she was afraid someone would see them. The April affair ended without any interference from me as the fantasy bubble popped and OW was probably realizing how unsustainable their relationship was.

When I think of the OW I feel pity (with anger of course) because she is so damaged she was willing to take a married man's leftovers instead of forming a healthy relationship with an available man. She is still very young and appears to have a string of poor decision making when choosing men. I don't spend too much time thinking of her as she isn't the problem, my WH's actions are/were.

In the meantime I am going to be GAL this week. I need to start studying for the techniques and method of treating patients in the inpatient setting. I also will be finding a waxing parlor that can make me less bear-like. I also need to find a financial advisor as well as a lawyer who can look over my business contract. There a lot of odds and ends I need to get sorted before starting work on the 18th. I am both excited and anxious about becoming an Attending physician.

[JksD]

Wrt to dehairing, have you considered IPL? More permanent and results are better.

[PsySara]

JksD,
One of the treats for myself when I get ore financially settled is to get electrolysis done. Be gone hairy legs!

WH comes back tonight and will be staying for two days for the Eid holidays. Previously I was always very anxious before he came, I wasn't sure how to behave detached but not cold. Now I think I've learned detachment much better and know how to do it. I can't control his behaviors or thoughts and I know I am doing all I can for our marriage while simultaneously taking care of me.

I do have occasional (ok, very often) bouts of anger/rage when thinking of how selfish and disrespectful he has been even as recently as April. Then I get these waves of sadness when I think about how intimacy will never again be something he only shared with me. I get so hurt when I think how he betrayed me. While he appears to have the making of a remorseful spouse he still has a long way to go. He still makes excuses or "reasons" why he cheated, the only thing acceptable to me is if he owns his betrayal completely and can realize how much he screwed up. Still a long way off frankly.

[SH_]

You deserve to have the bouts of anger. If channeled well, it will do wonders for you. My guess is that you are benefiting from it already in the manner that you are marching forward with conviction and sass.

Keep on keeping on, and let me know if the electrolysis works. I have some hairy legs that maybe I should smooth out before taking up the pole dancing JksD speaks so often of.
teehee

[JksD]

Agree with SH on the correct channelling of anger. You're using it to keep on keeping on.

As for the A, perhaps you could reframe it by thinking of the OW as someone your H slept with before he M you? If your H is serious about piecing, it will help to not give the OW any real estate space in your head.

I hope that your H will eventually realise what it is that he stands to miss and shape up first. My guess is that he is trying to deflect his guilt by giving excuses. He probably knows he's screwed up big time but just can't own it yet.

Btw, I feel that it may be more important to watch his behaviour rather than wait for a spoken apology. If he's willing to do the work required for piecing and healing, that is way better than any spoken apology.

SH, man it up and just try waxing first!

[PsySara]

OMG SH, the image of you getting your legs zapped for pole dancing had me in hysterics. Thank you for the belly laugh!

JksD,
When WH and Ow first hooked up (Oct 2015) I actually spoke to her on the phone afterward and firmly but politely told her that I was not receptive to an open marriage and she really needed to examine why she was willing to be some guy's leftovers. She profusely apologized and said she was going NC. However they broke NC in January and I ended up exposing her in Mar to her parents, she again sent a long, regretful text cutting contact and apologizing for the pain she caused. One week later she and WH were sleeping together again. So it's hard to imagine she was a pre-marriage thing when both WH and OW were so awful and selfish. She only take a small percentage of my brain space, WH takes up the lion's share or my rage. OW never took vows with me so I only hold her mildly culpable. It's just understood in our (women's) world that you don't sleep with a married man who has a pregnant wife, YKWIM?

WH's flight was cancelled last minute last night and we faced the possibility of not celebrating Eid as a family. WH got in his car and drove over 11 hours after working an ICU shift. HE was dead on his feet by the time he arrived at 5 am this morning. He went to bed and awoke around 10 am. We cuddled for a bit and had a very deep R conversation. He is starting to come around, more and more he is realizing how much he screwed up and how close he came to losing all of us. He is starting to verbalize deep regret and shame over the pain he has inflicted on me. He still has small moments where he tries to rationalize his actions (I never meant to hurt you, I would never leave you, I was desperate for love and affection) but he is also realizing that you don't turn outside the marriage to get these things but try any method possible to turn towards your spouse.

Defensiveness still pokes it's head up but I quickly end the conversation when it drifts in that direction. This has the double benefit of preventing a fight as well as giving him time to process when I explain my feelings and thoughts about the affair. Piecing, it's tough work.

[SH_]

SH, man it up and just try waxing first!

LOL. I can honestly say I have never heard the terms "man up" and "Try waxing" in the same sentence before.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that real men, draw the line at manning up somewhere short of Waxing. It is because we know that we can not compete with the womanly toughness that you ladies demonstrate to do this stuff to make us happy.
There is a reason why God created women to have babies and men to ummm, well, my point is the Woman is the mentally stronger of the species and I would say waxing pain is on the same track as birthing pain. LOL IMHO.

OMG SH, the image of you getting your legs zapped for pole dancing had me in hysterics. Thank you for the belly laugh!

Have you ever watched King of Queens? There is an episode where Kevin James character gets so frustrated with how bad his wife is doing in her pole dancing class that he jumps on the pole to show her how it is done. He is a large man, yet very agile and it was hilarious.

It sounds as if your H is putting in some serious efforts now and this is a good thing. You are doing things that are working. Jot it down as MWD states in DR. Keep studying the DR material and applying it as you are doing so well. I might say that you are progressing to being a Jedi Master DB'er.

[JksD]

OW never took vows with me so I only hold her mildly culpable. It's just understood in our (women's) world that you don't sleep with a married man who has a pregnant wife, YKWIM?

Sista, I know what you mean. The thing about OPs and waywards is that they are too entitled to subscribe to our code of honour.

You're a one hellava lady and I think you truly deserve the positive upswings in your sitch.

Continue doing what works for you. Although confronting the OW and exposing the A are not exactly DB, they have worked in your favour. Which is really the soul of DB's Doing what works.

Btw, have you read Divorce Busting? IMO, DB is more relevant to piecing than DR. As you move more and more into piecing, I think DB would come in more handy than DR. Also, have you read other R and A books?

[JksD]

SH, I don't know about you but while waxing is painful, it's still not quite in the league of labour pains.


But to make it more worthwhile, imagine Alexander Skarsgard in Tarzan. He was quite a hairless and drool-worthy Tarzan, easnt he?

[SH_]

SH, I don't know about you but while waxing is painful, it's still not quite in the league of labour pains.

I guess my point would have been better made, if I stated, the fact that women go through labour pains, (which is a pain that a man would never go through more than once and thus after Adam hypothetically doing it 1 time, there would be no human race) sets the bar high enough to handle the waxing pain with ease.
Men on the other hand, we see the waxing pain as the highest end of pain we will choose to endure, and the benefit does not outweigh the pain.
Pain factor scoreboard- Women 1 Men 0
LOL

But to make it more worthwhile, imagine Alexander Skarsgard in Tarzan. He was quite a hairless and drool-worthy Tarzan, easnt he?

I say special effects made him appear "drool worthy" and hairless, I mean come on, how did his hair grow so long and he did not even have a 5 o'clock shadow for a beard. Total Hollywood special effects and photo shop. HAHA
I will have to take your word on his "drool worthy" appearance that as I was more interested in watching Margot Robbie and her drool worthy performance.

[JksD]

SH, thanks for the giggles. Not such a bad way to end my day.


And a nice mental image of Tarzan to go to bed with.

Though I was drooling over Alexander (yup, we're on first name basis in my dreams), I do agree with you that Margot Robbie is quite a looker as well. We've both got good taste, haven't we?

[PsySara]

You guys have me in stitches over here! I have been giggling so hard I've been snorting. So embarrassing, lol!

I spent the day hanging out with my best friend/cousin. I went and had my eyebrows threaded and found a great waxing parlor which I will be using next week. I now live in a state where the cost of living is cheaper and it reflects across the board, including the waxing prices. WOOT!

JksD,
I read DR but did not read DB, I never read the term "piecing" until coming to this board and figured it was coined in DB. I have read Gottman's books, Surviving the Affair, How to Help you spouse heal from your affair (Took WH 6 months to read it and he did it halfheartedly)and about a 1000 hours of online stuff, lol! So far the DBing book was the most invaluable source, good concrete advice and what I could DO something as opposed to expecting WH to do things. I spent too much time waiting for him to become remorseful and not enough focus on healing myself.

SH,
The funny thing is, I've never been into eye candy. I used to think something was wrong with me when I was a teenager because I never ogled the guys that other girls were going nuts over. I still only admire a well built man from a medical POV. Now brains...mmmm sexiest organ in the body. I am a nerd and am attracted to nerds, lol.

WH and I just spent 1.5 hrs on the phone chatting and goofing off. It's almost bizarre, it's like we're dating or something. Every now and then we will talk about serious stuff but mostly we were just relaxing and talking about cars, houses, tv shows etc., He says he misses us and wish he was home with us. He says he misses touching me and finds himself thinking about me when listening to certain songs. I am feeling positive but also very guarded still.

[PsySara]

Today was a great day. A friend and her mother came by and hung out in the afternoon/evening and I ordered pizza and sides. It seems like such a small thing to hold someone's baby but it gives me a huge break when I am solo parenting. They took turns holding my baby while I bathed the older kids and getting them sorted for bed. After I put the kids to bed they called it a night and headed home.

WH called and told me he was heading to the mosque after work to say his evening prayers and then having dinner there as well. He said he would go home afterward and then probably got to bed. I kind of rushed him off the phone as I still had visitors. I also felt like I needed a little space as my mind has been ruminating over the affair that rekindled in April. I don't know why but the fact that they used a secret second cell phone is really bothering me. For some reason I didn't think WH was that cunning so it makes me thinking about ever trusting him again very difficult. If he was capable of such sneakiness how will I ever know if he is being honest? HE has even offered to take a polygraph AND pay for it. I guess that should be proof enough about his honesty. He has offered to give every detail I ask but I haven't asked more than the basics (timeline and how may times they had sex) because minutiae just makes the mind movies worse. I feel strangely divided, part of me feels very hopeful and ready to walk the road of reconciliation...the other part of me wonders if I should be so foolish to stay married to this two time cheater for the rest of my life?

The onus of proof is on WH and over time...lots of time. Part of me feels like I am plan B. After all the OW broke it off with WH over month before I found out about their resumption of the affair. But I don't want to raise my children alone and I definitely don't want to bring another man into my children's lives in the future. For now I am in the now, taking this moment by moment and trying not to let my rage cloud my ability to DB properly. It's so hard though, my God, so hard.

[JksD]

(((Sara)))

You are not plan B. The OW is an opportunistic person who happened to be at the wrong place at the right time.

You are the only plan. You are the one strong enough to continue on this path, regardless of the pain your WH has put you through. OW would never be able to do what you're doing.

I understand that the fear is there and it will be there for a long time. But you know you're strong enough to live without H and I guess your WH knows that too.

Sara, keep on keeping on. If your H is showing through his actions that he's willing to try, maybe you could trust but verify.

You've come so far. I am sure you can go further.

[PsySara]

Thank you so much JksD, I needed a pick-me-up talk. I tend to lose focus sometimes when I ruminate too much about the details of the affair. It was out of my control and I still can't control WH's thoughts or backwards rationalizations. (last night he told me he HAD to lie during April because he felt he needed to support me felt honesty would have broke me...umm sure there, fella) He also said he loved me and I was the perfect wife but he lacked the "spark" of being "in love" with me. Sigh. Do these waywards ever get a clue? Do they think love is like the movies? It reflects immense emotional immaturity.

Today I spent the entire day at my mother's house and the kids swam in her pool. We also had a bbq and the kids ate until they were ready to burst. Despite 2 applications of high SPF sunscreen I still managed to burn. The kids are brown skinned so they did great, they also were coated in sunscreen. WH called a few times and I sent him pics of the kids swimming. I am tired but content. The kids barely made it through their bed time routine before passing out. Tomorrow they go back to summer camp (swim lessons, lots of educational play, yummy food) and I sign my contract for my new job.

[PsySara]

Well this morning the day started out somewhat dramatically. WH called me while he as driving to work and we initially were chatting lightly, somehow it turned into a R conversation with very mixed results. At the beginning of the convo I mentioned I was scheduling an IC session for myself, WH mentioned he would probably see the same counselor for IC since we may turn it into MC (she is the highest qualified MC in this city as per her credentials.) WH asked her rates and was floored when I told him how much, I jokingly mentioned it was cheaper than divorce. He asked how much divorce cost and when I gave him the ballpark figure he was stunned. I guess he expected a divorce to be cheap and easy. I explained that we both come to the table with significant assets (we're both physicians) and three very young children. I reminded him how much his sister's divorce was (30K) and that was with very little assets but two small children.

During this part of the convo it somehow evolved into him talking about mixed up he is about "us." HE talked about how he fell in love with OW and how he has never felt the "in love" feeling with me. Again he spoke how he "had no choice" about falling in love with the OW because I wasn't giving him what he needed and that he couldn't control his feelings. I told him that the affair was due to a series of choices on his behalf, that he chose to be alone with another female, that he chose to spend more and more time alone when developing feelings for her, that he then chose to confess his feelings with her. HE did this all secretly without telling me any of it. I tried to remain calm but slipped a little. I told him there were many times when I didn't feel fulfilled in our marriage but I did not seek it from outside. I told him the moment he started feeling something for another woman that he should I told him that the "in love" feeling comes and goes during a relationship and can be rekindled but it was not reasonable to expect that feeling to be in place 24/7 for the duration of the relationship.

At one point it devolved into an argument and I had to step back and even told him we needed to stop talking since the conversation had gone off the rails. He was so angry when I told him I wasn't happy in our relationship before the affair and he didn't give me all I needed. He truly believes he was a good husband to me before the affair and that he had no real "problems." Sigh. Such a looooong way to go. He still has such immaturity and lack of insight into his own poor coping skills. I ended up shutting my mouth and going back to pure validation. It's frustrating because I feel like I can't talk about my pain or anger without him getting angry and defensive. MY DB coach says it's all in how you say it. How do I phrase, "You cheated because you chose to cheat. Absolutely nothing I did or didn't do MADE you cheat. There is something very broken inside you to choose to cheat on your pregnant wife"? Because I've said exactly that and also reframed it other ways to no avail.

Meanwhile I am still getting myself situated, changing my driver's license to my state, begin going to the gym tomorrow, I have an IC this Friday. I am still working on me, trying to heal and be the best Sara I can be.

[J5K]

SadSara,

I can relate. I had a convo today with STBX and cannot follow the bouncing ball either. No matter if I DB or use tough love, nothing seems to matter. More details to come on my thread. Sometimes I feel that the D should just happen. It may just be better that way and continue to be the lighthouse and have a little hope that they return.

[PsySara]

Jim,
Be the lighthouse because you are that kind of man. Strong, moral and calm...the lighthouse is rooted and steady, it does not react to the boats no matter how rough the seas.


I should take my own advice. Today was a very busy day but my stupid brain still ruminated over the affair. WH was unaware as I kept it light and easy during our phone calls. But inside I find myself seething with resentment and rage. I even started going to the gym today and ran myself to exhaustion just trying to distract myself. I was somewhat short and curt with the kids tonight and felt guilty afterward. In the end I just chalked it up to a sad/ad day and called it a wash. Tomorrow will be a new day and I can start over again. The important thing is I did not react nearly as angrily as I used to when spiraling. I really have come a long way from last October where I was barely functional. I remember staring at a patient's chart shortly after dday and it was like it was written in a foreign language. I stood there reading it for 10 minutes and it didn't register. Finally I went to the rest room and cried. That was how bad it was. I cry about once a week now and can confine it to times when I am alone. So...points for that.

[Buxom]

JKsD.... How do you show WH that you are worth the effort or sacrifice?

[Buxom]

Sara, I so admire you and your strengths right now! All the best in your relocating
Your lighthouse!
Col

[J5K]

Thank you Sara,

I wish I was as strong a person as you. I continue to pray that you find the right outcome to your sitch. I can't get STBX out of my head either. Still resent her at times also.

I actually worked out also today! Awesome! Put on some 80s metal and did 15 minutes of weights and a 20 minute jog!

I hope for both our sakes the sadness passes soon!

Sleep well!

(((Sara)))

Thanks for letting me hijack your thread too! LOL!

[JksD]

Dear Sara,
Good job on the validation. Svcks that your H is not at a stage where he can validate your hurt too. Maybe it's not just how your phrase your hurt but also when?

Your H sounds like he's still trying to make sense of the A and unguilt himself. But he has apologised or acknowledge the hurt he's caused you previously?

You may be new to the forum but I admire you for your fighting spirit and willingness to do what works.

[JksD]

Buxom,
Just a disclaimer to let you know that I am D. I only came across the books and this site after the D.

Based on my theoretical knowledge of what's in the books, and my practical knowledge of what doesn't work, this is my 2 cents.

First of all, and this is from painful experience, don't pressure, don't cling, don't cry, don't spew.

What is your WH's complaint about you? Is it valid? If it is, then work on it. Not to win your H back, but to make yourself a better person because that's who you're going to be with for the rest of your life.

How do you feel about yourself? Do you think you're worth the sacrifice and effort? How have you changed from before the M? Do you prefer the you before or during M? Choose the one that you prefer and keep at it.


GAL, act as if. Have a positive pma. The advice that is all over the boards, they truly work. A happy, at peace and confident person is an attractive person.

[PsySara]

Buxom,
You show yourself that you are worth the sacrifice first. YOU matter. I straight up told my WH (last evening actually) that OW is a rock and I am a diamond. I said it calmly and with conviction, because it's a fact not an opinion. This would not have worked while he was in the affair but seems to be sinking in (achingly slow) over time. I truly believe it too. What kind of pathetic woman goes after a married man? A shell of a human being, a broken girl with daddy issues. JksD's advice is spot on, the changes you make are for yourself. I had to change how I reacted when feeling angry. My biggest mistake post dday and spewing and railing at WH. It made me look weak, pathetic, unhinged and I felt awful. It also served to push WH further away. So I had to ask myself why I kept using the same failing technique even though it had the same, detrimental results? Because I was using poor coping skills. Instead I learned to listen, not defend, validate and find someone I could vent to. MY WH still has very wayward thinking and it will take a LONG time for him to learn better methods.

JksD,
WH and I are at very different stages in our journey. He's still taking the first baby steps while I am already jogging along. I have to remind myself that insight comes with time and very hard examination. WH has never been the type to examine his motivations and impulses very deeply so I can't expect a sudden eureka moment either. He apologizes when he hears about my poor sleep and occasional crying jags (I don't do this in front of him) but still hasn't come around to apologizing for his behavior leading up to, during and after the affair. I am not expecting that any time soon.

Jim,
You're doing great man. You are working through an intensely challenging situation and I think you're a rock star. You're an absolutely fabulous dad and showing your boys what a real man. Keep up the good work and find good, solid distractions when you find yourself ruminating.

I got about 3 hours of sleep last night thanks to a teething baby and a 3 hour convo with WH on face time. He actually requested the convo and when I tried to end the call he asked for more and more time. We had a good, solid R talk and his thinking is sloooooowly changing. I will type the details later. This process of DB works, it's just a marathon and not a sprint. For patience challenged folks like me it can be the hardest and most wonderful thing ever.

[JksD]

Sara,
When you have the time, could you pop by Cherry's thread?

She's newly pregnant and her H is still abounding very confused. You've been through similar so I thought you could help her out here.

[PsySara]

JksD,
I popped my head in and gave my two cents. I am sending all my hopes and mojo in her direction. She's a classy lady and I think she will turn out ok not matter what happens.

So WH continues to call and we discuss our R and also the A. I slipped a bit today as he was talking about how he felt betrayed by the OW because she broke off the relationship in April and didn't give him a chance to get clarification. I work in mental health and counseling but even I have a limit to how objective I can remain. I mean...he's talking about feeling pain and betrayal because his AP broke it off and this is all going on under my nose after he promised to NEVER betray me again. Secret cell phones and active deception and I guess my sympathy just broke right off. I didn't spew or lose control but I did tell him that it really hurt to hear how much he was worried about her feelings and thoughts but basically treated me as disposable. He keeps trying to say we were barely communicating in April so somehow that excuses the re-activation of the affair. God I hate this stupid fog. Occassionally WH appears receptive to my thoughts on the matter and I've mentioned how affairs can be like drug addiction, a lot of the same chemicals are active in the brain and how breaking off the affair can feel like withdrawal. Tonight I sent him a link written by a WS describing how she managed withdrawals. (this was after he said he would be interested in reading it) He then said he needed a break from the phone convo and hung up. (not rudely, we had worked this out ahead of time, when one becomes overwhelmed then ask for some time to regroup) Interestingly enough I am not feeling the anxiety and fear I used to previously when he shut down. I am feeling mental fatigue and will be going out tomorrow to recharge my batteries but overall, I'm okay.

[SH_]

(whistle sound here)

So much conversation and things being shared between you two. A lot to process I am sure.

You have mentioned your habit of ruminating on many things and that you get caught in a loop sometimes in spite of progress and great actions on your part.

Check out these 2 Ted Talks that I have been reviewing and studying up on and hopefully you can pull some good ideas and actions that you can apply for yourself and your mental well being.

How to Stop Suffering - Morty Lefkoe
The secrets to becoming Mentally strong - Amy Morin.

You are doing so well and being so patient, but I see some self destructive habits in what you share that are very well part of the process, but if not careful can lead to bad habits that can keep you spinning.

Check out the ted talks and let me know your thoughts as I think you will find them helpful.

Keep on keep's on as you are a warrior queen that many LBS must look to and learn from. I am super proud of you and what you have accomplished in such a short time.

[JksD]

Thanks, Sara for dropping by Cherry's thread!

Sara, I love SH's advice.


At the risk of generalising, men, especially WHs, are emotionally flooded very easily by R talks. Your WH sounds like he's still flooded easily but it's good that you have worked out a way to disengage whenever anyone feels overwhelmed.

Your pains and hurts are very valid. I hate to say this, but to your WH, his hurt and pains are also very valid in his warped universe. And everytime you try to convince him otherwise, or try to put across your POV, he is likely to feel defensive and attacked, even if that's not your intention.

Truth darts can be used but very sparingly at your stage. I really think that it's not just a matter of how you phrase it but also when you phrase it. You have laid your boundaries and your H is aware of them.

When both of you are on firmer grounds, you could set aside a tine to discuss the A. And this time it will be for you to express your POV. Do you think this would work?

Rock on suoerstar!

[PsySara]

SH,
Thank you for the constructive criticism, could you clarify what destructive habits you see me committing? It's always good to get an outside, objective view so I can see myself clearly. When I am in the emotional vortex it is really hard to be rational and positive. Sometimes I wish I could compartmentalize the emotions and revisit them later. But I know mindfullness means allowing yourself to feel the emotion in the moment and not to run from it. I watch the TED talk with Amy Morin and it was very helpful, thank you.

JksD,
I defeinitely think I need to shelve any talk about my feelings and pain for now, WH simply doesn't have the fortitude to be a support to me while he is still so wounded. I know he is experiencing a loss with the break up with the OW. I know he is experiencing rejection and withdrawal so I have to step back, validate and use my own IC to vent and spew my hurt. (and it's not mind reading, he's actually told me those things) The R talks are started by him and he has been asking for more and more time to express his thoughts and feelings. I am getting some fatigue though, it's become an enormous effort to remember to truly listen to WH and not take his words personally.At this point I will not bring up the A unless he does, I will try to keep my own opinions (and rage) at bay to give him a safe place to talk. I am trying to make our M a good place for him to come to.

Today I have a few more errands to run. It's also a gym day so I may go buy some new sneakers and ear buds so I can listen to music on my phone. Next week I start my new job and will be very busy. WH doesn't come home until the week of the 25th so I will be solo parenting, working as an Attending physician, transporting the kids back and forth to camp, and manage the evening/bed time routine. It's gonna be an adventure, lol!

[JksD]

Sara, I don't know how you, or any other dbers with multiple kids do what you do, but I think you guys are awesome!

Kill your H with kindness now. There are other ways of killing him, metaphorically and literally (you're a physician, so you'll have your means...) but we can hold them off for the time being.

At the same time, show your H you're not to be messed with by continuing with being the awesome, fierce, sassy lady that you are. Have you tried being more mysterious? And not be so available to him?

[Cherry]

Sara, I've been catching up on your thread. It's scary how much we have in common.. I too am Muslim, as is h- and both our h's are Asian.

I really admire your strength. And reading your thread spurs me on to get back to where I was. The dressing a little sexy round the house clearly works for both of us too.

I see your observation on the ow being someone with daddy issues. The last ow and this one both come from families where the dad has left. The messages I saw from this ow said its not a problem to leave a family as that's what her dad did. They are poison feeding the wrong ideas into their head. Still I'm to once again accept that there isn't anything I can do to control this. So focus on me.

[Ginger1]

Boundaries.

If discussing the A and how he misses her enrages you (understandable, the same would happen to me) then in a loving way you can say "I understand you are having these feelings, but I do not feel comfortable discussing your feelings towards OW"

You can be a safe outlet for him without having to hear about that. He will be mourn her. That is for sure. I have seen it in every case. You but you don't need to be his shoulder to cry on.

I spent so much energy, probably years of energy trying to get my exH to see what he did was wrong. My H had an A when I was pregnant, he left me for her when our D was 6 months old, and now they are married for 5 years. We had no chance of reconciliation, but I was hell bent on making him feel awful and guilty about it, looking for some sort of self-loathing for what he did, beg for my forgiveness or tell me how wrong it was.

It never happened. Still, 8 years later, the best I got at somepoint was a "sorry things had to be this way, I didn't mean for it to happen".

But to move on and R, I do understand you need to see remorse. But trying to force it out of my ex only pushed him farther and caused him to become meaner. He is going to have to come to understand what he did was wrong on his own. Guilting him into it won't make it sincere anyways. You'll want it to be sincere.

You may never hear exactly what you want. You'll have to decide what you will accept. But there is a chance you may see the remorse and regret in his actions, and they may end up meaning more to you in the end.

[PsySara]

JksD,
I think I need to start pulling back a little. I think my listening and validating (nonstop) is causing him to view me as a counselor as opposed to his wife. The good news is he is scheduled for a 2 hour IC session when he returns. I just saw this IC today and she is VERY good. Hopefully it will become the outlet he needs to deal with the loss(rolls eyes) of the OW and then he can use his emotional and mental reserves on us.

Cherry,
I can spot a chic with daddy issues because I used to have plenty of them. My father died when I was 10 from suicide. My mother has been married and divorced 5 times so I have never had a good model for relationships. I countered this by reading about how to heal oneself from toxic parenting and formed a lot of good coping skills. My main goal was to be a better mom than my mother, I think I have done this.

Ginger,
Initially I encouraged WH to discuss his thoughts and feelings with me as I did not want him trying to find someone (female) who would be that listening ear. I told him this would not be forever but until we could find him a good IC. That is now 2 weeks away and I will be more than happy to hand off the baton as I have reached my limit.

Today has been a very challneging day. I was scrambling to get the kids to camp on time and all three toilets suddenly wouldn't flush and all the showers and tubs began to back up with sewage. Lovely. Some phone calls and the realtor company sent out a plumber. In the mentaime I went grocery shopping, went to my IC session for an intake, got all my hair below the waist waxed to oblivion, spent 2+ hours at the DMV to get my driver's license switched to this state, had to buy a new laptop after my cousin accidentally murdered mine yesterday by spilling soda on it, and spent over an hour in traffic (BAD storm) trying to pick up the kids from camp. By the time I got home I was exhausted nad ordered a pizza. fast forward 2.5 hours later and the delivery guy still hadn't come. I had to call and cancel my order, get a refund and then feed the kids PB&J for dinner. This was after only getting 3 hours of sleep last night thanks to a teething baby.

WH initially wanted to facetime tonight so I made myself up. At the last minute he cancelled and said he preferred to go to the mosque instead. I was so tired I didn't even care, I was mildly irritated but whatever. Tomorrow needs to be a better day.

[JksD]

You're sounding stronger and on more even keel!

Ugh about the sewage problem but wow, you managed to get everyone where they were supposed to be.

Good job on not getting worked up over the missed call from H. You're too busy having fun and living life to wait around for H!

[PsySara]

JksD,
I have up days, I have down days. Today started out a bit down. Physically I am tired from lack of sleep and managing a a teething baby at night. Mentally I am fatigued from WH's comments about loving and caring for me but not feeling that "in love" feeling with me. At this point he claims he never felt it. I have to force myself not to roll my eyes as what he is describing is limerance and not love. It's an immature thought to think one can keep that feeling in place permanently.

I'm a bit blue tonight. It's just one of those days where I think about how even if we stay married that I will always know I am not the only woman he's had sex with while married. It's such a violation of sacred trust. Then add the details of the lying and selfishness and it just feels like trying to swallow poison. If he were more remorseful and actually did the hard work of self examination then maybe I could swallow it a easier. But when only one person is acting and thinking like an adult it's kind of hard to continue being the lighthouse. I know my mood will swing up again, especially when works starts and my days become full. But for now I am just going to let myself feel the hurt so I can move on.

[JksD]

(((Sara)))

There will be up and downs but you're doing well to expect that.

Remember what they say around here? Believe nothing of what they say and 50% of what they do. Your H is still in a fog and it will take time for the fog to dissipate.

Sorry to hear about the teething baby. Kid used me as a teething ring. Ouch!

I know what you mean about the sex with another person. For me, finding out about the EA was bad enough but when I knew that it had progressed to a PA, I was utterly gutted. The whole M just seemed so tainted and by association, I seemed so tainted.

Hope you'll be able to get your PMA up soon.

[SH_]

SH,
Thank you for the constructive criticism, could you clarify what destructive habits you see me committing? It's always good to get an outside, objective view so I can see myself clearly. When I am in the emotional vortex it is really hard to be rational and positive. Sometimes I wish I could compartmentalize the emotions and revisit them later. But I know mindfullness means allowing yourself to feel the emotion in the moment and not to run from it. I watch the TED talk with Amy Morin and it was very helpful, thank you.

Sara,

What I see as I read your posts frequently is the potential to fall into the bad habit and trap of rumination, control and expectations of WH in order for you to resolve your feelings.

Rumination

I perceive many of your posts as having some very good things happening for you and you are putting in some phenomenal efforts to take care of yourself and heal from what it is that you are going through. Then in the same breath (posts) you share of the pain you are feeling and how it is coming from so many random thoughts about what he might have done, what he might be thinking, what he is doing or not doing and why. I perceive rumination as many of your posts indicate the same things, which leads me to perceive that they are on your mind regular, which is the definition of rumination. Read back through your posts if it helps to see the pattern or you may know what I am indicating here just by thinking about it for a few minutes.

You are correct in that mindfulness encourages that we do not fight the feelings that come over us as that can start a swirl of emotions and normally they are not good ones. But it is a fine line between acknowledging the feelings/emotions and ruminating on them. As I have studied mindful meditation the key that I have fixated on, is to acknowledge the emotion/feeling/anxiety/ or what have you, but then let it slide through and dissipate. The challenge is not to acknowledge it and then get stuck on it. Then other thoughts come swarming in and create unreal realities in our mind, which can become extremely harmful to our emotional health.

Acknowledge the painful emotions, let them pass through, but avoid ruminating on them. A sign of rumination is playing the same thing over and over again each time we feel the negative emotion sweep through. A technique that I focus on, is giving a reason to why I may be feeling the negative emotions, something like being tired or hungry, or a trigger of some sort. Then I realize why my brain takes me to the thought. I then jump to my plan moving forward and it helps me to feel the emotion, let it pass through and then move on.

I am now working to apply the info form the Ted Talk about by Morty Lefkoe to change the meaning to events that trigger my negative emotions. This may help you at this point as you still share that you are trying to wrap your head around some of the meanings behind your WH's actions. The meanings that you are attaching are additional triggers for you, as I perceive what you share. Remove those meanings and or change them so they do not have you suffering and you will feel stronger.

Control

Many of your great posts about your conversations with your WH show that you are giving him the opportunity to talk and share his POV. This is a good thing as many of us LBS have learned as we validate the feelings of our WAS/WS. Then you share thoughts like, if only he would take responsibility, or if only he would see what he is missing, etc., and then I could...

The desire to have our S understand what we think they should see, feel, understand and or do is simply a control issue for ourselves. I know that is a tough pill to swallow as many a LBS seems to be the one that is doing research, seeing an IC for feedback, and here in this community trying to learn and adapt our behaviors to do what is right for ourselves, our children and our S. We have found information and things that we know are valuable and are correct and we desperately want our S to learn the same.

But alas, I am learning that in this world, just because we have found truth and good things, not everyone wants to neither acknowledge nor apply it. I believe in my heart that each of our S know what is right and wrong, but no one will convince them of it, but themselves. I mean, if I were to try and convince you right now that everything that you are learning and doing is wrong, would you listen or believe me? Of course not. No one wants to be convinced of something. They want to discover it for them selves. That is why we not only need to change our behavior, but we also need to change at our core.

You are doing the right things to speak with him, give him space to talk, be heard and validated, but if you continue to believe that he has to say certain things, recognize certain things or feel bad for certain things, then you still have work to do for yourself. You need to detach. Because even if your behaviors have changed, we humans sense what others feel. If he senses that you are doing these things with strings attached that he do certain things then it is still a form of control and he knows it.

You will know when you have changed at your core when you can do what you are doing and no matter what he feels, recognizes or does, it will not affect your negative emotions. If he chooses to do right, then you will feel joy, if he chooses to not do right, then you will only feel bad for him, but you will be fine.

Expectations in order for your feelings to change

This I see in your posts of what you indicate you want him to do in order for you to get over the things you feel. You may want to discontinue looking toward him and what you need from him until you have healed yourself within. You need to be on firm ground emotionally to then take the next step and answer a very important question.

The things he did and has done are still recent and the wounds that you have are still raw, so you still need to stay focused inward and heal. The reason for this is because you will need to ask and answer this question at some point.

Take some time to think about it before you answer.
Do you know if you can truly forgive him for what he has done?

I asked this of my friend whose W went wayward over 2 years ago recently.
He expresses that he wants nothing more than to forgive and build a solid MR. But I saw that no matter what she does, he does not trust her. She has apologized. She has expressed how sorry she is. She has tried to do what she can to move forward. But he continued to tell me what more he needed from her. So I finally asked him this question.

Can you truly ever forgive her for what she did?


Do you know if you can truly forgive him for what he has done?

If the answer is No, then you know what to do. I don't mean to be harsh with that response, but the issue will always be on you if that is the answer, and there is little reason to push forward as all expectations would be unreal.

If the answer is Yes, then you must be certain of the things that you will need to see to reach that point. The list will be short, never change and will be finite.

I asked my friend this, because over time he got what he told me he needed, and then it was something else he needed from her to forgive. My point to him was that it was time for him to look within in order to forgive. Only then, could he make the list of things he needed from her, and it would be short and finite. And then only then could he truly begin to heal himself. And it was his personal healing that he needed more than anything. He was struggling professionally, as a father and as a member of his church and it was because of all the negative feelings he was holding inside due to his WW and not letting go of his meanings for what she did.

True forgiveness of another person really must take place in our heart first and is more for our own healing, then for the other person. Holding in the distrust, anger, hurt, resentment and any other negative feelings are destructive to us.

Avoid having expectations of your WH in how he feels or in how he needs to express himself as this will hamper your ability to get to a place that you can truly forgive him.

So, I know this is long, and may sound a bit of a ramble, but I believe that you are an unbelievable woman that has gone through a nasty betrayal and held it together while raising 3 young children, creating a nice career undoing it all on your own from what I see in your story.

I hope and pray for you and your young family because I cannot fathom how I would handle what you are experiencing. But I do know that if I met you someday I would give you the biggest hug, and tell you how inspirational you have been to me and many others in this community. No one deserves what you have experienced, and I am sad to say that I know far to many good people that have. But I know what happens when they don't take care of themselves and follow good principles to heal and become strong. I believe that you will be one that prevails, not matter what that looks like for you down the road.

Continue pushing forward Sara. And for crying outlaid, PLEASE change your screen name now and drop the "Sad".
How bout some ideas.

Sara
SuperSara
StrongSara
SassySara
IncrediblyWonderfulMotherandDoctorDBingSuperStarSara

Or keep it simple and go with SS (or IWMDDSSS)

(((((Sara)))))

[PsySara]

JksD,
I think the second dday has made me relapse a bit into the hurt. It just seems so much worse because WH witnessed how much the first dday affected me physically and psychologically and still chose to cheat again with same OW. The amount of deceit it required is stunning and I am struggling to rectify my new knowledge of my WH with the image I had of him when we first married. Gutted, that's exactly how I feel sometimes.

SH,
Thank you so much for that detailed and well thought out response. I will definitely chew on it and try to make it sink into my thick skull. When WH is physically here I am actually more calm and less fixated on the cheating, I am not sure why. But when he is at work (out of state) then I have to try and believe that he is not cheating again. Can I forgive him? I think I can, I can picture a future where the affair is in the past and I won't hold it against him. I am simultaneously trying to heal myself (and you're right, the wound is still very raw and fresh) while allowing WH to prove to me that he will rebuild trust. So far he is coming around and being more focused on how to fix what went wrong inside himself to cause him to cheat. I've been reading Gottman and Harvey on recovering from an affair and trying to piece using their suggestions. It requires me to be vulnerable to WH and drop resentment. And I struggle, I struggle so hard to get over the resentment.

The crux of the problem for me is squaring my rage and resentment. If anyone has a TED talk or book I can read about dealing with those I would greatly appreciate it. Being resentful towards WH only hurts me and hampers my ability to lovingly detach. I hunger for the day when the weight of my anger and resentment are lifted. I need to expore what forgiveness looks like from my end. i need to make sure my goal post isn't ever-changing so I don't torture WH in an effort to "even" things out. The fact of the matter is nothing he does ro doesn't do will ever make it fair. It was unfair he chose to violate our sacred vows but I have to deal with the here and now. At this point he is willing to do the work (however achingly slow) to fix himself. I need to continue to do the work to heal myself and make myself the best Sara there is. My kids deserve it and so do I.

How do I change my screen name?

[Sotto]

One thing I once read Sad Sara was posted by AJM over in the MLC part of the forum.

He said that if you can see the actions of the WS as things they are trying to do FOR themselves (albeit dysfunctionally & destructively) rather than something they are doing TO you, that is really helpful.

I'm not excusing the behaviour - but it can be a helpful perspective to work towards...

I'm paraphrasing, but this was the gist...

Xx

[JksD]

Sara, to edit your username, go to the menu bar with 'Forum list, My stuff....'

Click on 'My stuff' and then go to 'Edit profile'.

Do you have After the Affair, and Love and Respect? I find them to be very good reads.

After the Affair actually has sections for the unfaithful spouse and the betrayed spouse. Your H can read through the sections on the unfaithful spouse.

I get what you mean when you say that the second BD was much more painful because your WH had seen what the first BD did to you.

You need to reframe your thinking. Look at your WH as an addict. He is addicted to the highs of the A and was not able to wean himself off cold-turkey at one shot. All addicts know how much their addiction hurt their loved ones. But because their brains are so messed up by the As and the APs, they fly like moths to a fire. The second BD was a very unfortunate relapse.

Now, your WH realises to a certain extent his addiction. He is trying to wean himself off. There will be tough times. But he is a very sick person and he needs some time to recover. You need to give him and yourself credit for the fact that he's trying to work on your M.

Piecing is hard because a lot of times, both the betrayed spouse and the cheating spouse feel like their pain is the greater than the other's. In fact, they say around here that piecing may even be harder than dbing.

If you want to rant, then rant here. You are a smart lady and you have very strong awareness. Use that to your advantage.

(((Sara)))

[Buxom]

Hi Sara! I changed my screen name by contacting a moderator with a request and my new name. I was not wanting my name recognized if WH visited the site.

I really appreciated you stopping by to support me and give me fresh perspectives. colleen

[PsySara]

Sotto,
Thank you for reframing it that way, I will say that internally whenever my brain says, "Look what he did to you!" In the end the affair was about WH's poor coping skills and immature impulse control than anything to do with me. It's like a mofo but I have to remember to detach my emotions from his behavior.

JksD,
One thing this board has been absolutely invaluable for is an outlet for me to vent. When I am feeling very enraged I come here and pour out my angst. My WH only sees 1% of my negative emotions. I do tell him when I am feeling particularly raw so he knows to either back off or approach. (I let him know which one so he doesn't have to mind read) I have viewed him as someone with a chemical imbalance as that is essentially what a person is when in an affair. While I know DBing recommends against exposure I do feel it ripped the rose colored glasses right off the couple in the affair. My WH said OW was very different during the second affair as she was pulled back and not open. She broke it off as she couldn't deal with the secrecy and shame. Meh, broken people, broken lives.

Buxom,
Stop by any time!

First day at work was fun and super busy. I only saw a few patients as they get me settled in but I think I will learn their routines very quickly. I am a little disappointed that they still use paper charts as they are cumbersome and a real pain when someone hoards it for 4 hours. Grrrrr.

I spoke to WH at lunch time and on the way home. (he is working nights so we will have only brief times for calls. He will be coming to my home next Monday and we will be looking at houses for sale. This is the tricky part, I am still being extremely cautious and in observation mode (believe nothing they say and only half of what they do) so I am nervous about planning such a huge financial undertaking. He is supposed to be moving here in October and should be starting his job then. HE will be working at a hospital that shares a border with the facility I am working at. But until it happens I am remaining neutral.

I think I am spending too much time looking forward instead of dealing with the "now." (hush, SH, I know. lol)New goal, work in the now and let the future come to me, stop trying to control things I cannot control.

[lt0402]

Great news on the good first day of work Sara! I think you're spot on about not trying to control things that you cannot. I'm finding stopping that is especially tough and I'm not quite there yet. You, however, seem to be making good steps in the right direction. Highly motivating for the rest of us!

Keep it up!

[betterm]

I think I am spending too much time looking forward instead of dealing with the "now." (hush, SH, I know. lol)New goal, work in the now and let the future come to me, stop trying to control things I cannot control.

Bingo! It's been a while SS but it seems like you're working your way closer to where you want to be. Doing good staying on track and sticking to what matters most! I'm glad to hear your WH has openly committed to 'piecing,' and you're absolutely correct in being cautious throughout the process. The future never actually becomes "present" in our lives. It's just an image of what our little brains can visualize in life, and usually badly... All we have is the now, and just like you said, the future will take care of itself.

I think you're spot on about not trying to control things that you cannot. I'm finding stopping that is especially tough and I'm not quite there yet.

People are afraid of things they don't understand. When something is "out of control" (or out of OUR control), it's natural for us to see it as a threat to ourselves. This ability is something that no human is born with, and something we can never "unlearn," we just get to constantly hone our skills in adjusting ourselves when a threat presents itself.

[SH_]

It's late, but wanted to give a drive by hug before dozing off.

You're a phenomenal Woman, mother and wife. Don't you ever forget or lose sight of that no matter what.

(((((SassySara)))))

[PsySara]

lt,
Thanks for stopping by! I am still working at detaching and you will see me slip up a lot. But the good thing about DBing is you can start over as many times as you need.

betterm,
I am trying to remember to make myself theh locus of control and stop trying to focus on WH. I really need to step back and stop having expectations. Already I find myself calling him more often than I should to temp check. WH has responded by pulling back and becoming aloof again. Time to refocus on me and my GALing. This is a process and requires constant redirection of self.

SH,
I thought of your advice today. I was feeling sad and found my thoughts wandering again to WH and the affair. Suddenly your words flashed in front of my eyes and I started exmaining why I was feeling that way. The last two nights I've only gotten 3 hours (broken sleep) because of a teething baby. I realized when I am sleep deprived all my emotions seem to be turned way up and out of proportion. So I let the pain pass through and then started thinking about other things. I have to say, it helped immensely. You are a wise man, SH, and your W is a fool not to realize your worth.

So I was busy with the evening routine tonight when WH called. He sounded down and stated he saw a trauma tonight that resulted in a death. Unfortunately this was a child and it shook WH up pretty bad. He asked me to take some pics of our kids tonight and text them to him. I obliged and he texted "Thank you." During the call he said he could not imagine losing our children and that it would destroy him. I agreed with him and said how blessed we were with 3 healthy and beautiful kids. I think a jolt like this was good for him. (but wish I could reverse the situation for the parents of the child) WH at one point seemed completely willing to give up me and the kids as long as he could get the OW. I told him on no uncertain terms I would seek full custody as his judgement was severely compromised during the affair. He was so unrecognizable to me I often wondered if he had a brain tumor or some other organic cause to his personality change.

Now after reading many other's stories of their spouses in affair it appears to be "normal" for an extreme change in personality while someone is in an affair. WH is still a bit foggy and I can see him pulling back sometimes, not to mention he has now rewritten our marital history that he was never "in love" with me. During the affair he would verbalize that he had thoughts of just walking away and never looking back, even leaving the kids. He could not have shocked me more if he said he wanted a sex change. As the fog has dissipated he has started recalling (or "forgetting") these comments differently. I wonder how much of it is conscious versus repression? Regardless I have stayed steady in my love for the children and tried to be their lighthouse. I want them to always know I am here and will never, ever abandon them. No one is worth destroying your children's future.

[Painter]

He was so unrecognizable to me I often wondered if he had a brain tumor or some other organic cause to his personality change.

Now after reading many other's stories of their spouses in affair it appears to be "normal" for an extreme change in personality while someone is in an affair. WH is still a bit foggy and I can see him pulling back sometimes, not to mention he has now rewritten our marital history that he was never "in love" with me. During the affair he would verbalize that he had thoughts of just walking away and never looking back, even leaving the kids. He could not have shocked me more if he said he wanted a sex change. As the fog has dissipated he has started recalling (or "forgetting") these comments differently. I wonder how much of it is conscious versus repression?

I'm so relieved that someone in the medical profession actually also had this thought. I have been worried about H's mental condition for some time.

But what I discovered, was a tendency that goes back decades before we met. I just didn't see it clearly before - and many of the facts I didn't even know.

It's still crazy to watch. It's like Alice in Wonderland.

[JksD]

I am glad that your H is slowly emerging from the fog.

You're a strong woman to have gone through so much while pregnant and with 2 kids.

The script that your H recited while in the fog is so similar to my x's script. He threatened to cut kid out of his life if I didn't grant him the D. But now he freaks out whenever he thinks that I am going to cut kid's access from him.

[PsySara]

Painter,
There needs to be studies done on WSes when they are in affairs, like brain scans or something. If I had been told my WH was capable of his words and behaviors before I witnessed it, I would have told anyone they were crazy. It was something I had to see to believe. Sometimes I will have a flashback of something he said or how his face looked while in the affair and I feel my heart plunge, it was like he was possessed.

JksD,
WH sometimes takes two steps forward but then retreats one step bacl, still, it's progress.

Tonight we had a short, prescheduled talk on the phone. I was thinking of cancelling it as my mood is a bit blue today and I didn't want to start an argument. However WH called after a half-hearted text from me and asked what was up. It kind of poured out of me, quietly and tearfully. I told him it felt like my heart was literally hurting sometimes. I thought our relationship was special and one of a kind. I thought he would never, ever treat someone else as important (or more important ) than me. At first he said he only treated me special. I told him it didn't feel that way from my end. I waited three years while his parents balked because I was a different race. However he only knew OW for 2 weeks before he proposed to her, had sex with her and was apparently willing to fight his parents for her. He was quiet for a minute and then acknowledged that I was right, that he violated a sacred trust. He understands how I could feel "replaced." He then said, "I don't really remember her very clearly anymore."

I told him this actually worried me as he has a tendency to repress stuff and then repeat behavior. He asked to clarify and then said,"What I mean is I don't think about her appearance, our conversations, our activities together. I don't even really feel much about her anymore. I have trouble remembering what I felt for her. However, I will never forget what this has done to you, how you are in so much pain because of what I've done."

I sat there in stunned silence. This, this is what I was waiting for. While I don't think he is 100% "there" yet he is rapidly approaching true remorse. I started crying and thanked him, told him that those words were very helpful and that i actually felt better. He quickly told me to please tell him whatever I needed from him to feel better. I told him that just the fact that he was willing to try was a huge deal to me. I told him I wasn't carrying a list around of what I expected from him, I told him I was still trying to find a list of what I expected from myself.

I was very vulnerable with him tonight and I have to say, he handled it wonderfully. Our convo was only about 20 minutes long as he is working night shift and had some very sick patients. He did say he was looking forward to coming home on Monday as he missed us. He asked if I could request the nanny to stay late a few evenings so he and I could go out together. He also has a 2 hour intake with an IC next week. I gotta say, I am kind of stunned at the sudden turnaround. I will continue to work on me and make myself the best Sara here is. Maybe we will be a "success story" on DBing. Regardless I will come out a winner.

[J5K]

Sara,

I am so happy to hear that your conversation went well.
There are a lot of positive comments made by your H which is good. I pray that he backs them up with actions.

I wish I knew what else to say other than you need to change your screen name to SexySara, SuperSara, SmartSara, SuperbSara! You are a Supermom and your H will be very lucky if he can do the work required to save the M.

[JksD]

All this sounds great! I am happy for you, Sara. You have fought the good fight and you deserve this.

(((Sara)))

I am proud of your H for stepping up to the plate.

I am starting to sound like a nag but I hope you thanked H for his reassurances.

[PsySara]

Jim,
Like I said, he makes two steps forward and then regresses one step back. Last night he was telling me how hard it is to see women at his work wearing blue scrubs, with a certain hair color, a certain height. (all reminders of OW) He also said he felt like he gave up his soul mate. *sigh* I may have not been able to effectively DBer last night but WH seems to be letting me slide a bit so I am not going to be too hard on myself.

JksD,
I did thank WH for his reassurances, he says he feels bad when I do that. I told him I realized how hard it is to do this kind of self examination.

Last night was a bit of a mixed bag, WH was distant and aloof again. I was a little frustrated because he wasn't even trying to talk. So I cut the convo short and went to bed. Unfortunately I woken around 11:30 for an emergency with a patient. When I managed to drift back off to sleep the baby woke me at 2:30 am. Then I was really irritated and texted WH asking if he was busy. (he specifically asked me to call him on nights I can't sleep. I told him my concerns; that he was withdrawing, not communicating. That was when he told me about an argument he got in with another physician. He mentioned struggling against triggers that reminded him of the OW. He mentioned feeling like he lost his soul mate. At that point I slipped and told him I would not shed a tear if OW died a horrible death. I told him OW was a selfish, moral-less girl-woman who was not worth the dirt on my shoes. WH was...not amused. I frankly did not care. I told him there is no way you meet your soul mate in three weeks. I told him it was limerance and nothing more than a bunch of chemicals in the brain. I told him I couldn't be the person who could listen to feelings he still had for OW. I was more than willing to hear his concerns about me and our relationship but I could not respect the "relationship" he had with OW in the past. WH backed down and said he understood.

WH sees the IC this week for a 2 hour intake and I am praying fervently he can start working through this. I have hit my limit being his counselor and need to step back. Today I did some mental exercises when I began to ruminate about the affair and it helped break up the cycle. It helps that I am so unbelievably busy at my new job that I can barely find time to jam food at lunch time. I need to carve out time to talk to my DBing coach but it is challenging with my very full schedule.

[Vanilla]

Sara it's ok you know to say your boundaries.

You are allowed them too.

OW are scuzzies and OM are rat bags.

Feel very sorry for them indeed. To be pond scum with no hope for any future decent R with anyone.

In my view they are not worth even thinking about.

V

[JksD]

Good that you stood up for yourself wrt to listening to H's feelings about OW. Good that your H respects your decision as well.

I guess there should be a line btw being validating and being his C for his A.


However, perhaps your H could warn you whenever he is mourning the loss of ow (yucks, I know that really is disgusting), and perhaps you could give him some space and not take this personally.

He has to know that you are allowing him space and time to grieve, although he should work through the actual grieving process with his C.

[JksD]

Btw, I totally agree with your assessment of the ow.

[J5K]

Like I said, he makes two steps forward and then regresses one step back. Last night he was telling me how hard it is to see women at his work wearing blue scrubs, with a certain hair color, a certain height. (all reminders of OW) He also said he felt like he gave up his soul mate. *sigh* I may have not been able to effectively DBer last night but WH seems to be letting me slide a bit so I am not going to be too hard on myself.

Sara,

2-1=1 so that is one step forward. Always a positive sign. I hope over time it continues that way and the fog lifts from WH.

You are a good DB'er. Way better than I am. It sounds like you stay very busy and so what, you made some mistakes, overall still sounds like a good day, you set your boundaries, WH recognizes and seems to somewhat respect them.

Baby steps and patience is what you have on your side.

[PsySara]

Vanilla,
We definitely agree on our thoughts of OW, they really are the lowest of the low. I actually called her on the phone after finding out about the second affair (she had previously texted me profusely apologizing after I exposed her to her parents. She promised to never go near my H again, a week later they were sleeping together again. I gave her every insult under the sun and then told her to go get her head examined, that a normal person doesn't chase after married men. I won't lie, it felt good) Since then I don't really care where or what she is doing.

JksD,
Since WH is starting IC this week I am hereby letting go of trying to be his counselor. I have been frank with him that I can't tolerate hearing about his "love" for the OW anymore.

Jim,
I have never been a patient woman but this DBing has been a baptism in fire. I have had to learn to step back and not act on my emotions at the moment. IT has been a long, hard journey but I think DBing has made me a better person overall.

Last night WH and I had about a 30 minute talk. Initially he tried to lob the convo into my lap but I told him I felt like I was doing most of the heavy lifting and if he wasn't interested in talking we could just call it a night. I wasn't angry or anything but rather feeling very detached. WH started communicating (finally!) and was saying he was trying to force himself to fall in love with me. I told him that forcing it would most likely result in the opposite desired result. I calmly informed him that I would be okay walking away from our marriage. I told him I was secure in the fact that I could parent alone and would be just fine on my own. I told him if he was doing everything out of guilt then it most likely would fail.

He said he didn't want to lose me because I was a "good woman, a perfect wife but I just didn't have the same feelings for you as the OW." I told him this felt like I was a plan B and I felt I should be the only plan. I told him if we were in the same place emotionally and relationship-wise by the end of the year that I would probably let go of the rope and file. The entire time I was saying this I was speaking gently and calmly . He said he felt very guilty and prayed every night to fall in love with me. He said he felt extremely confused and conflicted because he knew I was a "sure bet" but he just can't connect with me. I validated his feelings but also made it clear I could not sustain this limbo forever. I was clear that if I am married I need to know I am married to someone who loves me completely and without conditions. I need to feel safe that I would not be betrayed again and I needed 100% honesty.

There was a lot more said but that is the overall gist of it. The conversation actually had a loving tone the whole time and no arguing or anger. He actually thanked me for the conversation at the end. I thanked him for making time to talk (he is working nights right now) and being so open with me. He did say he felt my DBing coach was the person who made all the difference. I gotta say I agree with WH on that respect. I really need to find time for another session.

[J5K]

Sara,

I am happy to hear your conversation went well. You set your boundaries and it sounds like he understands and is willing to do some work.

Although maybe not all his actions show 100% respect for you, he is making an effort.

I will continue to pray for you and your family.

(((Sara)))

[JksD]

Sara, both you and H are working on this. Keep on keeping on.

I would have given multiple body parts for the x to be doing and saying a fraction of what your H has done and said.

The feelings follow the actions. To feel in love, both of you need to fill up each other's love tanks and wait for it to work. There seems to be a min anount to meet before you can feel the love again.


(((Supersara)))

[trumpet]

Love your talk with your WH. You are in a great spot.

It sounds like your WH has some immense emotional growth ahead of him, no matter what, with you or without you. If he chooses OW, his growth won't happen until after it flames out, and he loses you.

Realize you'll have to cycle back through some hurt and anger to get back to where you were in your discussion. I think the worst is past you.

I am impressed and proud of you. Your WH is is really p&*ping the bed on this one. You'll need to continue to express your emotions to someone - the emotional venting needs to continue, maybe in reduced frequency...

[PsySara]

Jim,
I am trying to keep to the loving detachment but it cna be challenging sometimes.

JksD,
While I am happy that WH is saying some of these things, he also said a lot of similar things before he broke NC again in January and then resumed the affair in April. I am now keeping a wall up until the test of time happens. I feel I will be able to relax a lot more when he moves down here. Until then there is still the substantial risk of OW slithering back into the scene and replaying this nightmare all over again. As far as the "in love" thing, I have always loved him even when I didn't like him. I expected marriage to ebb and flow, for the love to rise and fall. I especially expected the challenges of splitting time between small children and the marriage. WH has always wanted lots of children but resented the time babies take. I wanted to stop at 2 children but he begged for a third and well, we see how that worked out, huh? Frankly I think it shows some immaturity to expect the "in love" feeling all the time. I used to ask for date nights just for the two of us and he acted p*ssed that I was asking for time away from the kids. So I am just sitting back and doing my 180, putting out a warm, loving vibe and humming along. If he falls in love with me, good, but I am not going to twist myself into a pretzel so I can satisfy an ever changing fantasy he has in his brain. Love is deeper than that. I think he will come around.

Trumpet,
The anger and resentment are a huge obstacle for me. I spend a large chunk of my day wrestling with my rage and resentment. A while back my DB coach asked to visualize what forgiveness looks like. I think forgiveness is when I can finally let go of this rage and hurt. I just struggle with concrete ways of doing that. I use imagery, distraction, serial multiplication....anything to rip my brain from ruminations. I've watched Ted talks and read books and still I am stuck on this. I hate this because it's basically a poison to my soul and gains me nothing. I pray so hard to heal from this and just...let go. But it feels like a piece of cotton stuck in my throat and no matter how much I try to swallow it, I gag on it. And I know once I figure out how to forgive him it will be as an anchor is cut free and I can stop sinking. Until then I continue to barely keep my head above water.

WH comes home tomorrow and I plan to order his comfort food from a local restaurant and bring it home after work. He loves food and I jokingly call it his love language. His sister plans to come visit for the second week of August which is...sigh...okay. She and I are VERY different creatures and I think it will be very challenging to host her and her kids while WH and I are trying to piece. He only visits about 1 week out of the month now and this will cramp us during this time.

[SH_]

Are you still chatting with a DB coach?
You are in a great place and sounds to be doing well, and with a little coaching from the outside that has to be a helpful.

You keep being sassy and keep control of those swirling emotions and you will experience great success. You are marching on the road that many envy. Keep wrestling with the anger and resentment. That means you are still fighting. You will prevail as you put forth the effort.

Why do I still see "Sad" in your screen name?

[JksD]

Way to go, Sara! Your H has lots of catching up to do! I hope he doesn't stop trying to keep running after you because you're too good a prize to lose!

[Cherry]

It's good that see how well you are doing. Your h sounds like a very confused man. I pray he realises what he has before he truly blows it!

[SH_]

Drive by hug for SuperSara
(((SuperSara)))

I hope your week is going well and you are still strutten that sassy sass around.

[J5K]

Hi Sara,

Hope your week is going well. Just checking in and praying to hear positive things from you!

[JksD]

Hope you're well, sassy sara

[PsySara]

Sorry I've been so neglectful updating, I have a small window of time to post (crazy busy this week)

WH has been here all week and mostly we've been working on getting finances squared away as well as I bought a new car (Squee!) on Wednesday. WH did the negotiating as he is a shark at this and got the dealership to knock 6K off the price. He is very good at this type of stuff as he researches it before entering the the dealership. He also paid the down payment and this decreased my monthly payment sharply.

Work has been extremely busy and by the time I get home I barely have energy to get the kids sorted for bed and then collapse into bed. This was week was actually very good until about 1 hour ago. We even had a date night (kid free) for the first time in years. We went to a nice restaurant, afterward we walked by the river and watched a bit of an outdoor concert. WE drove home and ML, we then went out for a drive at the beach, came home at 1 am and went to sleep. This morning we went out for breakfast and during this time a previous collegue texted him and mentioned a residency in MI (very far away) and that he could get him in. Suddenly WH gets excited and starts to talk about doing another residency in MI and how this would be great. My face just fell. This would mean him living away for 3 years, only coming to visit about 2 weekends a month and of course, the same stressors that led to the affair in the first place.

Of course I could not hide my emotions and we got into an argument which resulted in him telling me I was not wanting him to be happy, that he is not content with just me and the family, that I am being inflexible and controlling. I kind of just lost it. I told him I felt that he still didn't "get it" that he was saying the right things but when it came to actions and plans he was still repeating the past mistakes. It didn't amount to anything constructive and now he's out on the back patio with the kids and I am inside with the baby while he naps. I am so very, very, very tired of this. I really am just ready to move on with my life...like...just move on without him. If he still is putting his desires and impulses before his family's welfare then I think I need to take action to protect myself and my children.

I am not filing for divorce this evening but I think it's time I start planning my future decisions without him in it. He is still a WH and WAS.

[PsySara]

Oh and another concerning issue, he went to IC this last Thursday and stated the therapist felt MC was not appropriate at this time. HE could not recall the specifics of why but mumbled something about "rehashing the past and causing fights again." I don't understand this, if he's not in an affair now then we definitely need to process the affair and rebuild trust and love. Meanwhile he is still saying he is not "in love" with me and "not connected."

[JksD]

Sara,
Your H sounds very restless. Have you tried asking him why he wouldnt want a residency nearer where you are? Prestige?

What is thw work situation for him like?


Wish we could activate SH's smackdown club and smack some sense into him.

Was his therapist going to be your MC? Any way you could ask the therapist the reason?

[PsySara]

WH accused me of being inflexible and refusing to compromise I told him if he wanted to do another residency and could land one in the city I live in then I would be willing to support him. He said his compromise would to be to apply in my state and MI and go where he matches. I told him working out of state is what landed us in this mess to begin with and would create another perfect storm for an affair. His plan is to come to my state and work in October (he has three spots he could work) and then if he gets into another residency (he's already done 2 years of surgery and then a complete Internal Medicine....5 years total) to move wherever it is. That last plan was made today. HE said I could always move me and the kids with him to MI but I told him that would put me in the same vulnerable position as before, he cheated on me and I had no choice but to single parent, carry a high risk pregnancy with no emotional support and basically just survive. Now I live minutes from assorted relatives that can help me out. I am not willing to take such a huge risk when WH was cheating on me merely 3 months ago, I won't even consider it, that would be stupid.

The IC was supposed to be our MC once WH has sorted his individual stuff with her. I emailed her Friday and then left a VM today and no response.

[JksD]

Your sitch now must feel rather annoying. I can see how living near family is so important to you rughtnow...

Sigh. Hope the IC will get back to you soon.

(((Sara)))

[SH_]

Ugh!

I have a lot to say about the challenge you are faced with, but I will refrain as it really would be more spew at the ridiculousness of said WH. It would not benefit anyone in putting it here.

Sara, keep your chin up. Let the events of last night move on and gather yourself. Take it easy now and get into a routine that is good for you physically, mentally and emotionally before making any big decisions.
Take time for you.

(((Sara)))

[Sotto]

Hi Sara, I can see why you feel as you do and wouldn't want to uproot the family to follow him somewhere. XH also worked away and had his A in the city where he worked.

With young children, it makes life so much easier and better for them and you, to be near family. At this point, it doesn't sound as though your H is doing 'whatever it takes' to help you heal from the A. As was posted above - he still sounds somewhat restless, resentful and entitled....ie: I want to do this and you're holding me back.

At this point, it sounds as though a boundary has been reached and you've made your views clear. I would hold firm on that and see how things unfold.

Take care...you're doing so well in difficult circumstances my friend xx

[Rose888]

I agree. You are doing great, and I think your plan to stay near family is spot on.

[Cherry]

Sara, I'm so sorry your h is being a jerk again. I completely get why you would want to stay put, it's taken a lot of hard work and strength to get you to where you are now. And having support nearby is absolutely essential as your h is anything but reliable right now.

I too wish we could smack some sense into these idiots! He sounds like he is still in the fog and still has the "why doesn't anyone care about my happiness" just like my h.

Keep strong, it's sounds like you made your point clear to him. Focus on yourself and your beautiful children

[PsySara]

I am seriously reaching burn out. WH was on the phone with a local hospital and says they cannot hire him until 90 days after contract signing. Originally WH said he would be quitting his job and moving to me in April 2016, then he changed his mind and moved that date until the end of September 2016...now we're being told Nov 2016 at the latest. I just...can't. He basically has no problem with this date being moved further and further back. He knows I set a deadline in December 2016 as my limit. I simply can't stay in limbo anymore. Bare minimum I need him here to work on our marriage. HE appears to not even care what I need.

I am so burnt out.

I deserve to be treasured. I sure as heck deserve for him to be chasing me at this point. I don't think I have anything left in me anymore for this man. He wants to go out and chase "happiness" then just go. I don't feel safe with him. I don't think he is consistent or dependable. He wants to have that feel good feeling and who cares who it hurts. How was I so stupid to marry such a selfish @sshole?

[J5K]

Sara,

I am sorry you are having a bad day. I understand that you want to have closure on things. It is tough, I have the same feeling each day as I am going through the D process.

We are here for you. You are strong! Keep doing what is good for you and your children.

(((((Sara)))))

[PsySara]

Thanks Jim.

I am calmer now and decided to remind myself that DBing is about solution based therapy. So I spoke to WH on the way to the airport and brought up possible options. Without getting into tedious details there are other options. WE went over them and WH basically shot them down but also appeared at least responsive to making alternate plans that would be able to have him here in October.

I also decided to "act as if" and when he was getting out of the van I smiled at him and kissed him. His face suddenly softened and he kissed my hand, my face and softly said, "Thank you." I drove me and the kids home and have done the bath and bedtime routine. In the meantime WH texted me, "I leave in 20 minutes, I've been thinking of you " I texted a sexy selfie to him and then a picture of our baby giggling. He thanked me for it and said he was going to miss us.

The dance continues...

[AndrewP]

SS - I think you need to change your handle to Super Sara

You've left him with a memory to treasure. Give him a bit of room to cherish it. If I were him I'd be putty in your hands.

[JksD]

I think you've got this dbing down. Sounds like it's the acting as if stage for you.

Attagirl!

[J5K]

Way to go SexySara! Get him!

[Cherry]

You know, what I admire about you is that you hit that anger stage, then you use that to your advantage. You pick your sh*t up, dust yourself down and get stuff done.

All this with three kids in tow.

You are absolutely a treasure, and this fool needs to see this before he goes and blows it!!

I see quite a bit of myself in you, and I see a lot of my situation in yours too. So it's great to see someone shining through it. You are absolutely the kind of girl that he would more than be a fool to leave!!

[PsySara]

Aaaaaand two steps back.

WH called today and stated he had sent his references in for the local job and they would send his contract probably next week. He now says if they can't hire him until mid November then he will just finish the year out where he's at and start in January. I cooly told him it looked like he had made his decision and put his plan in place. He got sarcastic and said I was being passive aggressive because he knows I would be upset if he stayed longer. No sh*t, Sherlock.

He also had initially said he wanted a session with my DBing coach so I called today to see if that was possible and they said it's very do-able. However when I told WH this his response was, "Oh I didn't WANT to talk to him, but if you want me to I will." Sigh. No. WH is saying he wants to piece but does not really appear to be making any effort on my behalf. I don't feel like we're piecing so much as I am still carrying the entire load on my shoulders. I told him I had to go and later texted him, "Hey hon, I need some space and time to think, I will update you on the kids via text." His response, "Ok."

I think at this point I am going beyond detachment and getting to indifference. I am finding that I don't like the idea of being married to this man. I would be willing to be married to him if he made changes to himself but he straight-up admits he doesn't want to change. I have started picturing a future without him and I am not even scared, I've been basically single parenting for 2 years now and never really felt appreciated. He has had a cushy deal, a wife who carries the majority of household responsibilities, child care and works full time. Meanwhile I have dealt with criticism, controlling behavior, contempt and disrespect. I am not really seeing the advantage of staying with him anymore. Am I becoming the WAS?

[J5K]

Ugh! Sara,

Sorry to hear about your WAH being such an a$$.

2 years is a long time to be dealing with such a fool.

I guess at some point in time the LBS's do become the WAS.
The question is, how long is each of us in our unique sitches willing to hold on to the M?

Do we continue to hold on because we believe in M or do we hold on for other reasons because we are not totally healed from the loss of our S?

Whatever the reason you are a rock star and have your sh$t together whether he follows you or not.

(((Sara)))

[JksD]

(((Sara)))

Dont put life on hold for H, but don't make any decisions yet.

Would things be better if your H really does move to your place by next January? I guess the issue here is that he keeps pushing the dates backwards, which really svcks.

Your H is aware that you have a dbing coach. Is he aware of this site?

[PsySara]

He is aware of the DBing coach and feels all the positive changes I have made is specifically due to that. HE admits that I am basically the "perfect" wife but doesn't feel "in love" with me. HE actually paid for this last bundle of DB coaching sessions because he was so impressed with it.

The problem with WH pushing back the dates is it shows me he doesn't care that I have told him a HUGE part of healing our marriage is to come home. This entire disaster formed because he lived away from home and basically forgot us. I notice a perceptible difference on how he treats me when he is away versus living here. Not to mention the fact that OW lives in the area where he works. I am just tired of waiting for him to make me a priority. Everything else is more important, hi career, his enjoyment where he's working, his ever changing needs to make him happy. He doesn't seem to care what I need, it doesn't appear to register.

[JksD]

Sara, you have to ignore the part about him not feeling the love for you. I love Cherry's recommendation of the Naughty Boy's Lalala song. You have to go lalala whenever your H spouts the IMNILWY rubbish.

It really svcks for your H not be able to see how much it means to you for him to be with you. Okay, I am major mindreading here but it seems that he wants to assert some say in this. Major teenager/ toddler (circle the more appropriate one) tantrum here. I guess it's all part of the feeling trapped by life package.

Okay, one positive that I can see here is that he is impressed by your changes and has paid for the DBing package.

Sigh. Can we activate SH's angels and smack your H?

[JksD]

Sara, if you happen to be on the board now, can you swing by Cherry's thread? She's having a bad day.

[Cherry]

Grl, I love how much you care about me. It feels like you genuinely think and are concerned about me. *hugs*

I'm sorry he's being such a douche again sara. There's so much of him in my h! It isn't fair how much he is putting on you. In piecing, he should be willing to do absolutely everything and anything to prove that he is in with you. I can totally identify with the whole full time work/ parent/ house keeper role that you have.

I can't think who it was who swung by my thread and was giving great advise, and she said who wouldn't want the lifestyle that my h has at the moment. Which is just like your h, they do whatever they like, go out whenever they like and swing by and see the kids when they feel. I know you are an amazing mom, and like myself, I know you wouldn't want to be apart from your babies. But the point is, their life holds no responsibilities. They're just going about THEIR pursuit of happiness, wondering why no one cares about THEIR happiness.

Selfish d**ks. Sorry as you can tell, I'm seething with rage today.
It just angers me to see people obliterating lives, just because they don't feel happy.

[PsySara]

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