Did Not See It

[Stormchaser]

RDS, your attitude towards your wife mirrored mine as well. There were so many times I fantasized about just leaving the M and starting life anew alone or with someone else. How things would be ok. How I actually wished she would have an affair so I could use that to opt out of the M. If she had asked me to go to MC before the affair, I would've laughed in her face and told her to take some Prozac and calm down.

Once I did find out she was having an affair, I did use that against her and wanted to blast it to the entire world. However, after a week, I felt pretty bad. She was remorseful. She wanted to fix us. Had she not wanted to make the marriage work, I'd probably be somewhere in divorce land now. I actually started missing that laugh I found annoying. Dumb stuff she would do I blow off now.

I'm pretty lucky in that I have the remorseful spouse who wants us to work. I say keep trying and keep up with the GAL, but I also think you should do a little pursuing. Let her know you really miss her - I think had I taken the hard road with my wife, she may have not wanted to come back. She wanted to know that I missed her and wanted her back, when I told her so, things got a little easier for us.

Good luck....hopefully things will work better for you...

[betterm]

I would love to write my WAW an apology letter, but I wrote her a heartfelt 19 page letter a month ago. It went over the good and bad of our marriage. I freely admitted my shortcomings.

Hey RDS, hope you're doing okay. I haven't been on the forums for a while, and decided to check in to see how things were with everyone, and provide an update to my sitch as well.

I snagged this quote off qt's thread... in regards to the "apology letter" or "lrt letter"... my coach, and another person I worked on this (ultimate husband - family ministries), was very adamant that any letter of this type should never be more than 2 pages. I know how you felt when you wrote your letter. My first attempt at writing one to my W was about 8 pages, and then I sent it over to be critiqued, and was immediately told to toss it due to length.

It can't come across as a homework assignment. it should not include any 'explanations' of why you did XYZ, or ways that 'things could have been different if..." etc. the letter should be 4-8 paragraphs, no more than 2 pages, and include only that you understand what you've done, how you own responsibility for it, how it hurt your spouse, and possibly how you're seeking professional help to better understand these things, nothing more.

sorry to just chime in like this, but like I said, I've been away from forums for almost two weeks trying to self absorb and focus on what I need to (I was getting consumed by this site)...

I'm going to read up on your sitch here shortly, and follow up with something that may be more relevant that this post.

How's RDS doing anyway?

[RDS]

Thanks Stormchaser. I hate to say it, and it's stupid, but sometimes the way things are going I wonder if it might have been better if my W had an A. I think it might be easier to understand why she walked out. It's highly stupid, but I think stupid all the time recently.

[betterm]

following up, RDS. I've caught up on most of your posts and firstly, I'm happy you've decided to seek the help of a DB coach. I will warn you that a lot of what the DB coaches will suggest, are not openly viewed by the forum members as the "right DB things to do", such as asking out for lunch, initiating contact, etc. When I first started the DB phone coaching, I had many internal conflicts of 'well, coach says this, experienced forum members say something else', and it's a bit troubling trying to figure out what's right for your particular sitch.

7 weeks and only 5 minutes of contact has got to be a horrible things to deal with. I get your envy of some of the other people on here with their regular contact, and after 33 years, i can't imagine what it'd be like to just drop all that, cold turkey, and have no idea where your WW is living, or what she is doing. It sounds like you have a solid relationship with your D20, and that's a great thing you have for yourself, it's unfortunate she's out of the house for a while.

If you do ask your W out for lunch, it seems you already understand that if it's met with rejection, you need to back off again. Something that was suggested to me by another coach, was one-way communications and one-way invitations. This could be something as simple as "hey, I'm gonna go grab some coffee at XYZ after work today, if you don't have anything going on... come on by." And if she shows up, great, if she declines, go get that coffee anyways, because she might be in the parking lot across the street just waiting to see if you're bullsh1tting her.

One-way communication might be something simple as a text that requires no response at all. Non-intrusive, meaningful text that shows you are still connected to her in some way or another. For me, if I knew my W had an important meeting, interview, class, etc, to just say "hey, i know you have XYZ, I just wanted to say I hope everything goes well for you."

Like I said, each sitch is different, and you've been married as long as I've been alive, so I'm obviously not experienced in what you're dealing with. The good thing about the coaching is you can tell them more about the "background" of your MR, childhood, culture, etc, and they will adapt their suggestions to you specifically.

I hope things get better for you, and I wish you well in your attempts to find happiness again. The last thing, the social group you're talking about, I think that's a good thing to continue. I wouldn't "seek out" people that are looking to hear your story, but if opportunity arises, it's good to get stuff off your chest and get other opinions on things.

[RDS]

following up, RDS. I've caught up on most of your posts and firstly, I'm happy you've decided to seek the help of a DB coach. I will warn you that a lot of what the DB coaches will suggest, are not openly viewed by the forum members as the "right DB things to do", such as asking out for lunch, initiating contact, etc. When I first started the DB phone coaching, I had many internal conflicts of 'well, coach says this, experienced forum members say something else', and it's a bit troubling trying to figure out what's right for your particular sitch.

First off, betterm, I really appreciate your input into this. I agree it seems counter-intuitive to have contact with my WAW and invite her for lunch, but I figuring they're the experts and I'm paying them the money to help guide me through this.

7 weeks and only 5 minutes of contact has got to be a horrible things to deal with. I get your envy of some of the other people on here with their regular contact, and after 33 years, i can't imagine what it'd be like to just drop all that, cold turkey, and have no idea where your WW is living, or what she is doing. It sounds like you have a solid relationship with your D20, and that's a great thing you have for yourself, it's unfortunate she's out of the house for a while.

It was numbing at first, as it is with most people. I'm glad I was at a point in my job where I could pretty much sleep walk through my day to day activities. My head still isn't in it as much as it should be but when I have to put my nose to the grindstone I can make it happen. The first 10 days or so I would not have been able to do that.

If you do ask your W out for lunch, it seems you already understand that if it's met with rejection, you need to back off again. Something that was suggested to me by another coach, was one-way communications and one-way invitations. This could be something as simple as "hey, I'm gonna go grab some coffee at XYZ after work today, if you don't have anything going on... come on by." And if she shows up, great, if she declines, go get that coffee anyways, because she might be in the parking lot across the street just waiting to see if you're bullsh1tting her.

Yes, I understand that. That's a very good tactic as far an open door invitation. That was something I hadn't thought about.

One-way communication might be something simple as a text that requires no response at all. Non-intrusive, meaningful text that shows you are still connected to her in some way or another. For me, if I knew my W had an important meeting, interview, class, etc, to just say "hey, i know you have XYZ, I just wanted to say I hope everything goes well for you."

I've done some of that already. For example, I've got a guy who used to work for me that was almost like a son. Him and his girlfriend have a little boy and my W adores him. They are having another baby and I simply texted "Jeremy and Amanda are having another baby" and left it at that. She responded, "Wow". I've also texted her one line messages occasionally about stuff I know she would be interested in. Things like certain people who used to work for me in the AF are now retiring (typing that makes me feel old) I usually don't respond afterwards unless I think I need to.

Like I said, each sitch is different, and you've been married as long as I've been alive, so I'm obviously not experienced in what you're dealing with. The good thing about the coaching is you can tell them more about the "background" of your MR, childhood, culture, etc, and they will adapt their suggestions to you specifically.

That's what I'm counting on.

I hope things get better for you, and I wish you well in your attempts to find happiness again. The last thing, the social group you're talking about, I think that's a good thing to continue. I wouldn't "seek out" people that are looking to hear your story, but if opportunity arises, it's good to get stuff off your chest and get other opinions on things.

You have given me incredible advice. Are you for hire as an IC? I think I like you better than the IC I'm going to.

[RDS]

I had another appointment with my IC yesterday. I think she is helping me but I am definitely getting the vibe she doesn't think I should worry about getting back in my MR. I look at her diplomas and certificates and one of them is a MC. I don't think I would want to go with to her for MC if I had to. But she is working on make ME a happier person and I know that's going to help me in the long run all the way around. My homework I have to do is make 5 goals to do just for me. I'm having a hard time coming up with 5 goals. I've got 3 down (start a class, get a tattoo, run the Ravenel Bridge). I know I will come up with something soon.

After I got out of my IC session I texted my WAW about having lunch. She still hadn't responded after 3 hours so I texted her saying if she didn't want to do it because she didn't feel right then it was okay and it was just a thought. She replied she wasn't sure yet and would let me know. I told her it was just as friends and nothing more and I promised her that.

She responded immediately and suggested a place neither of us had been to and agreed on a time (this Thur at 1 PM). I reiterated that I was inviting her for lunch as friends and nothing more. She told me she believed me. I am happy about it and I really am going to focus on us just as friends. I will not bring up any kind of R talk unless she does and hopefully I will able to navigate through that minefield if it comes up. I still expect her to decline or come up with an excuse not to go, but I will take betterm's advice and still go and leave the invitation open.

We then texted a few more times, manly about a few things I'm selling out of the house. I've sold a couple of things and we've split the money. She wants me to sell the Halloween stuff and I'm kind of reluctant to do that. At one time we had thousands of $$ in Halloween decorations and people would come drive by to look at our house and during Halloween night we would have mini-tours of the inside of our house. She loved Halloween and the thought of getting rid of it seems to symbolize the death of our MR. Of course I could look at it as a way of getting rid of the old to start with the new. I may junk it and tell her I sold it and give her a "share" of the money. I have to figure out what I'm going to do.

[betterm]

I had another appointment with my IC yesterday. I don't think I would want to go with to her for MC if I had to. But she is working on make ME a happier person and I know that's going to help me in the long run all the way around.

You know, not just the training for MC vs IC is different, the techniques, and approach to their clients differ heavily on whether or it's for IC or MC. My IC also is very SELF focused. She said after our first appointment, "I appreciate your details in why you're here, but next time, I don't want you to mention the marriage, or your wife at all"... she knew this was impossible, but I get the point. IC is for IC, MC is for MC, they are different for a reason

My homework I have to do is make 5 goals to do just for me. I'm having a hard time coming up with 5 goals. I've got 3 down (start a class, get a tattoo, run the Ravenel Bridge).

You're gonna get a tattoo!? That's on my list of things to do too. I'm uncertain of what I want, something meaningful, something strong, and maybe something humerous too. Please don't get barbed wire, or a tribal tattoo. haha.

She responded immediately and suggested a place neither of us had been to and agreed on a time (this Thur at 1 PM).

Wow, that was easy!? You're right in trying to 'navigate the minefield' though. Everytime my W and I meet or cross paths, she has over nine thousand questions she wants to drill me on. I'm not sure how others think about this, but it helps to think, and practice how to respond, and what you want to say (yep, I've done it in the mirror over and over, and still reacted badly to the exact questions I prepared for).

She loved Halloween and the thought of getting rid of it seems to symbolize the death of our MR. Of course I could look at it as a way of getting rid of the old to start with the new. I may junk it and tell her I sold it and give her a "share" of the money. I have to figure out what I'm going to do.

One of these comments make me say, "I like the way you're thinking, buddy!" ...you know which one it is.

Lastly, I'm sorry to inform you of this, but I'm not currently accepting new clients for counseling. Maybe in the future when things slow down, I'll let you know if anything opens up!

Have a great day! =]

[RDS]

You're gonna get a tattoo!? That's on my list of things to do too. I'm uncertain of what I want, something meaningful, something strong, and maybe something humerous too. Please don't get barbed wire, or a tribal tattoo. haha.

Nope, not any of those types. I am really torn on what one to get. I never got one before because I knew what I think is important to me now won't be in the future. I'm thinking of getting a phoenix tattoo. I know it's cliche and all, but I've seen some that really look good and "manly" and it fits how everything will be moving forward.

She responded immediately and suggested a place neither of us had been to and agreed on a time (this Thur at 1 PM).

Wow, that was easy!? You're right in trying to 'navigate the minefield' though. Everytime my W and I meet or cross paths, she has over nine thousand questions she wants to drill me on. I'm not sure how others think about this, but it helps to think, and practice how to respond, and what you want to say (yep, I've done it in the mirror over and over, and still reacted badly to the exact questions I prepared for).

I'm still expecting her to cancel, but I'm going to still go to the restaurant and leave the invitation open as you suggested. I have been doing the same thing you did by rehearsing in front of a mirror for all possible topics (impossible I know)

One of these comments make me say, "I like the way you're thinking, buddy!" ...you know which one it is.

Lastly, I'm sorry to inform you of this, but I'm not currently accepting new clients for counseling. Maybe in the future when things slow down, I'll let you know if anything opens up!

Have a great day! =]

I've been reading your threads. I wouldn't be surprised if MWD doesn't contact you and offer you a job.

[RDS]

One thing I don't know if I mentioned, but early on I purchased a GPS tracker to put on her car so I would know her whereabouts. I never got a chance to put it on her car. Tomorrow would be the perfect chance to put the tracker on her car. My coworker said he would do it since where we would be at he could easily put in on the car and she wouldn't know.

I'm really torn on this. I don't care near as much where she lives (detachment) as I used to but it would let me know where she lives and if there was a PA it would help me investigate it more.

On the other hand I'm going to see my WAW as friends and friends wouldn't do that.

Anybody have any suggestions?

[MoveFrwd]

My homework I have to do is make 5 goals to do just for me. I'm having a hard time coming up with 5 goals. I've got 3 down (start a class, get a tattoo, run the Ravenel Bridge).

Why do all of your goals for you have to be GAL activities?

How about expanding your learning - for example:reading books on successful marriage techniques? What about improving your means of communication? Improving the way you treat people? Investing in your own personal happiness? Make a new friend? Host a gathering? etc, etc.