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James -
This:
Originally Posted By: James3
The only point where my W slightly wavered was when she said she isn't 100% sure about anything right now


is why we all tell you not base your decisions off what your wife is saying and doing. Thats why it is so frustrating to me to read things like this:
Originally Posted By: James3
I said that during that conversation my W again blamed me for the reasons we are in this situation and didn't take any ownership of the problems she has created and led to the demise of our marriage. That and she told me she isn't in love with me anymore, and has told me in the past she doesn't respect me and doesn't want to be around me. I said, at that point I realized I didn't see a way back for our marriage.

All it does is reinforce to her that she is making correct decisions.

I do think in general you did OK. But I still think that you are basing your actions and decisions on her. And I believe that in time, you will look back and regret not doing what you find to be best for YOU.

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Originally Posted By: darknes
James -
This:
Originally Posted By: James3
The only point where my W slightly wavered was when she said she isn't 100% sure about anything right now

And I believe that in time, you will look back and regret not doing what you find to be best for YOU.

James, My W went back and forth in conflict over wanting a D, not wanting a D, wanting MC, not wanting MC, etc.

We had a very nice "truthful" talk on 6/5/16 about how she does not want a divorce and how she's so upset we're in this situation and how all she wants is for us to work things out and have a happy future together...

What do you think happened on 6/7/16? Yep. I received papers from her lawyer with her name as "The Petitioner".

What darknes says is right. You can't put any focus on anything she says or does. It all has to be done for yourself. You have to make the choice of what the best thing to do for yourself is, and how you want to come out of this, regardless of your W's actions/decisions, because you can't control them.


M34 W28, T7, M2
W filed D 6/7/16

...who doesn't love a lost cause?
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Hi guys,

What came out of the MC sessions was the resentment my W still has for me on a few specific incidents that she feels I never properly apologized to her about. While I apologized I understand why she says that as I mitigated and minimized my actions in this one particular instance when, in this case, was completely my fault and she got hurt badly. I know you are all going to tell me don't send her a letter but it is an apology letter taking ownership of my mistakes etc. I'll post a draft below to get some feedback but understand that I do owe this woman an apology for many things that I have done over the years and I never have addressed (this is where a lot of the resentment is). I haven't been the the ideal husband and I haven't apologized much for it over the years either. Even if we do split up having sent this letter may make things a little easier going post split managing the kids etc. Just some background, I had attempted anal sex with my W (we had talked about it previously but I sprung on her in the shower - she was physically hurt and broke down crying - I felt horrible). The rest is just about the overall relationship.

Anyway, here it is, let the bashing begin

"Back in November I really hurt you physically and mentally and I’ve carried that shame and guilt around with me every day since. I’ve had a lot of difficulty talking about it for a few reasons and I should have said this all to you then. First, I’m ashamed of what I did to you, how I made you feel and for your trust, respect and feelings of love I lost in that moment. I’ll never forget the look on your face and how I made you cry. I’ve never felt so awful and ashamed in my life and still carry that around with me to this day. Second, I was so afraid of this incident affecting our relationship but I knew it would. I know I said I was sorry and did mean it but I did try to mitigate and minimize my actions in an attempt to lessen the damage which was wrong and I completely understand why you would feel like you never got a proper apology. It was something that the moment it happened I wished I could take back – but you can’t. I didn’t consider your past history and how much more this would and did affect you. You’ve never needed to say much to me about it, because I saw it all in your eyes then and since--betrayal, disillusionment, revulsion. In that moment, I just wanted to crawl under a rock somewhere and hide. I didn’t mean to harm you but I didn’t consider your feelings either. But I understand the gravity of what I've done, my actions have filled me with self-loathing and remorse. It's difficult for me to look in the mirror knowing how deeply I hurt you. I don't think I have ever been so disappointed in myself. I have no excuse for what happened and saying "I'm sorry" again hardly seems adequate. You know me well enough to know that this was completely out of character for me and not something that would ever happen again even if we were to get back together. No matter what happens to us, I hope you can one day forgive me but I don’t expect it.

I also wanted to express my deepest regrets over how I have treated you at times over the years. I am sorry that I did not help you more around the house or with the finances until a few months ago. You carried a heavy load alone for years and that was disrespectful of me. Please forgive me for all the fights and things I’ve said in the heat of an argument, whether it was in anger or not. Sometimes we say cruel things just to get a reaction – but I don’t really feel that way – it’s wrong. Someone who is in love with you should NEVER do that. Instead of trying to hurt you like I did, I wish I would have learned how to talk rationally. I didn’t have to always be right. I wish I would have heard this saying YEARS ago…”Would you rather be right, or happy?”. I should have learned how to listen and express myself. I wish I would have known back then how to think instead of react. How to listen instead of be defensive. How to love instead of fight. I am sorry for my defensiveness. I am sorry that I took you for granted. I thought that no matter what, you would always be there. I should have looked at each day with you as the gift that it was. I should have loved you to the point that you NEVER had to wonder. I am sorry I let my pride get in the way of our love. Over the past six months I wanted to talk to you from the heart to breakdown the wall, to touch you, to kiss you, to simply be with you, but I didn’t let myself because of pride. I would sometimes watch you sleep in our bed just longing to touch you but wouldn’t do it. I should have realized what my pride was doing to us, how it was helping create a further chasm between us. I should have been a more equal partner in the relationship. I am sorry you had to live like you were walking on eggshells at times. I was probably hard to get along with these past few years. I was feeling down about work and finances, but the bright star in my day was always coming home to you and the kids – I instantly felt happy again. I’m so sorry for taking out my frustrations and unhappiness on you when you were just trying to help me. I could be a jerk at times that didn’t deserve your love. I am sorry I didn’t always show you the love and respect you deserved. I used to often show you my love through affection (hugs, kisses, hand hold on the couch) – I hope you won’t forget these things – they used to be an everyday part of our life and that I miss. I have no excuses for any of the above. I own it all. I have learned a lot of lessons these past 6 months, relationship and communication skills that I wish I had learned a long time ago but I didn’t have a role model. It seems these lessons may have come too late for our marriage and what would be the tragic breakup of our family. I am sorry.

I didn’t know how to deal with you pulling away from me the past 6 months (and 6 months prior) and I had no one to talk to about it and so I just backed off and gave you space hoping just some time away from me would help (stupid – I know). That probably created more problems. I know I haven’t handled everything the best but my intent was always to bring us back together – I didn’t do very well. I can only pray I have not completely hardened your heart towards me. I truly am sorry, and I hope you understand that I feel terrible for putting you through so much pain. I can't stand to see the tears in your eyes, and I feel horrible for causing them.

I have no expectations from this letter, I just wanted to say some things to you that I should have said a long time ago. I want to thank you for all the wonderful memories as a couple and family that I wouldn’t have without you. The good times have by far outweighed any bad. We as people just tend to remember those bad times more often."

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Originally Posted By: James3
Anyway, here it is, let the bashing begin

Im sorry if you feel bashed. I assure you that isnt my intent! Know that we all want what is best for you.

Rather than go point by point through your letter, I'd recommend you figure out how to shorten it by half. There are a LOT of words there such that they lose impact. Can you stay focused on your message and make the words more powerful? I'll bold some sections that to me seem repetitive or unnecessary. Just my opinion though:

I'd also recommend removing things asking for forgiveness. This is you apologizing....not you trying to mend fences, right?

Originally Posted By: James3
"Back in November I really hurt you physically and mentally and I’ve carried that shame and guilt around with me every day since. I’ve had a lot of difficulty talking about it for a few reasons and I should have said this all to you then. First, I’m ashamed of what I did to you, how I made you feel and for your trust, respect and feelings of love I lost in that moment. I’ll never forget the look on your face and how I made you cry. I’ve never felt so awful and ashamed in my life and still carry that around with me to this day. Second, I was so afraid of this incident affecting our relationship but I knew it would. I know I said I was sorry and did mean it but I did try to mitigate and minimize my actions in an attempt to lessen the damage which was wrong and I completely understand why you would feel like you never got a proper apology. It was something that the moment it happened I wished I could take back – but you can’t. I didn’t consider your past history and how much more this would and did affect you. You’ve never needed to say much to me about it, because I saw it all in your eyes then and since--betrayal, disillusionment, revulsion. In that moment, I just wanted to crawl under a rock somewhere and hide. I didn’t mean to harm you but I didn’t consider your feelings either. But I understand the gravity of what I've done, my actions have filled me with self-loathing and remorse. It's difficult for me to look in the mirror knowing how deeply I hurt you. I don't think I have ever been so disappointed in myself. I have no excuse for what happened and saying "I'm sorry" again hardly seems adequate. You know me well enough to know that this was completely out of character for me and not something that would ever happen again even if we were to get back together. No matter what happens to us, I hope you can one day forgive me but I don’t expect it.

I also wanted to express my deepest regrets over how I have treated you at times over the years. I am sorry that I did not help you more around the house or with the finances until a few months ago. You carried a heavy load alone for years and that was disrespectful of me. Please forgive me for all the fights and things I’ve said in the heat of an argument, whether it was in anger or not. Sometimes we say cruel things just to get a reaction – but I don’t really feel that way – it’s wrong. Someone who is in love with you should NEVER do that. Instead of trying to hurt you like I did, I wish I would have learned how to talk rationally. I didn’t have to always be right. I wish I would have heard this saying YEARS ago…”Would you rather be right, or happy?”. I should have learned how to listen and express myself. I wish I would have known back then how to think instead of react. How to listen instead of be defensive. How to love instead of fight. I am sorry for my defensiveness. I am sorry that I took you for granted. I thought that no matter what, you would always be there. I should have looked at each day with you as the gift that it was. I should have loved you to the point that you NEVER had to wonder. I am sorry I let my pride get in the way of our love. Over the past six months I wanted to talk to you from the heart to breakdown the wall, to touch you, to kiss you, to simply be with you, but I didn’t let myself because of pride. I would sometimes watch you sleep in our bed just longing to touch you but wouldn’t do it. I should have realized what my pride was doing to us, how it was helping create a further chasm between us. I should have been a more equal partner in the relationship. I am sorry you had to live like you were walking on eggshells at times. I was probably hard to get along with these past few years. I was feeling down about work and finances, but the bright star in my day was always coming home to you and the kids – I instantly felt happy again. I’m so sorry for taking out my frustrations and unhappiness on you when you were just trying to help me. I could be a jerk at times that didn’t deserve your love. I am sorry I didn’t always show you the love and respect you deserved. I used to often show you my love through affection (hugs, kisses, hand hold on the couch) – I hope you won’t forget these things – they used to be an everyday part of our life and that I miss. I have no excuses for any of the above. I own it all. I have learned a lot of lessons these past 6 months, relationship and communication skills that I wish I had learned a long time ago but I didn’t have a role model. It seems these lessons may have come too late for our marriage and what would be the tragic breakup of our family. I am sorry.

I didn’t know how to deal with you pulling away from me the past 6 months (and 6 months prior) and I had no one to talk to about it and so I just backed off and gave you space hoping just some time away from me would help (stupid – I know). That probably created more problems. I know I haven’t handled everything the best but my intent was always to bring us back together – I didn’t do very well. I can only pray I have not completely hardened your heart towards me. I truly am sorry, and I hope you understand that I feel terrible for putting you through so much pain. I can't stand to see the tears in your eyes, and I feel horrible for causing them.

I have no expectations from this letter, I just wanted to say some things to you that I should have said a long time ago. I want to thank you for all the wonderful memories as a couple and family that I wouldn’t have without you. The good times have by far outweighed any bad. We as people just tend to remember those bad times more often."


Here is my version smile I think some editing would still be needed since I mostly just cut and didnt really re-word.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

Back in November I really hurt you physically and mentally. I’ve had a lot of difficulty talking about it for a few reasons and I should have said this all to you then. First, I’m ashamed of what I did to you, and for the trust, respect and feelings of love I lost in that moment. I’ll never forget the look on your face and how I made you cry. I’ve never felt so awful and ashamed in my life and still carry that around with me to this day. I know I said I was sorry and did mean it but I tried to minimize my actions in an attempt to lessen the damage. It was something that the moment it happened I wished I could take back – but you can’t. I have no excuse for what happened and saying "I'm sorry" again hardly seems adequate. No matter what happens to us, I hope you can one day forgive me.

I also wanted to express my deepest regrets over how I have treated you at times over the years. You carried a heavy load alone for years and that was disrespectful of me. I am sorry for all the fights and things I’ve said in the heat of an argument, whether it was in anger or not. I wish I would have learned how to talk and to listen rationally. I am sorry that I took you for granted. I thought that no matter what, you would always be there. I should have looked at each day with you as the gift that it was. I should have loved you to the point that you NEVER had to wonder. I was probably hard to get along with these past few years. I’m so sorry for taking out my frustrations and unhappiness on you when you were just trying to help me. I have no excuses for any of the above. I own it all. I have learned a lot of lessons these past 6 months, relationship and communication skills that I wish I had learned a long time ago.

I have no expectations from this letter, I just wanted to say some things to you that I should have said a long time ago. I want to thank you for all the wonderful memories as a couple and family that I wouldn’t have without you.

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Hi James , sorry if this feels like bashing

If you are going to send the letter then I agree with Darkness that it needs to be shorter I'm no wordsmith so I won't even try to help there

I would ask what the letter is going to do in your opinion ?

If you are now accepting that the M is over ( for you ) and you want to let W know your feelings then it's a nice letter and can do no harm

If however the M isn't over ( for you ) then I would hold the letter back for a few weeks because you might be writing it from emotions based on how you feel right now Emotions are very powerfully and can blinker us from reality If you hold out some hope for your M then can you be 100% sure there isn't a part of you desperate to send the letter right now to achieve a goal ???

IMHO the letter won't change anything in a positive way so holding it back for a while won't make a difference You've told us how your W is Queen of the guilt trip so take your time and don't react

Your in the middle of this James and we can all only offer advice / encouragement based on what you tell us and our own experience. I've never seen anyone on here regretting not sending a letter and seen plenty that do

Take care. Rd

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James,

What did you mean when you said that you hurt your wife "physically and mentally"?

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Hope all is well with you, James.

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