I had a DB coach and she helped tremendously. She defined the stages of reconciliation as follows: 1) Let the dust settle, get some space, let the emotions die down, and get stable. 2) Form a new relationship of friendship, one that says you respect her autonomy, you understand you are no longer a married couple, but that you can be effective co-parents. 3) Romance. 4. Reconciliation. DB coach said it takes minimum 6 months for the dust to settle, and usually 1 year minimum as friends.
My DB coach said that it was ok to casually invite her to family things at first, if it could be casual and with no expectation, and if her not going wouldn't be an issue. And if it wasn't often (pursuing).
For me though that didn't last long. Once I found out she was in an open affair, one that she refused to end to someone she insisted was the love of her life and the man she always wanted to be with...well, I wasn't interested in playing friends.
Now, I only got drawn into one fight, I haven't punished, controlled, dragged the kids in the middle, made power plays with finances, NOTHING. In two years. I've been a good boy and played nice. But I have zero interest in a relationship while she is texting her boyfriends how much of an abusive jerk I am and how I'm the root of all of her problems. Not playing.
So the advice is different depending on the situation. If she is a WAS showing regret that she has to leave the marriage because of her personal boundaries that you've violated with your behavior, then I think it can be ok to be friendly, invite her here and there, demonstrate some 180s, etc. But if she is wayward, involved with another person, spewing venom, disrespectful, etc, then I think you need to create some distance and show that you won't be disrespected, that you're not attached to her, that you are prepared to move on and not be a doormat.
The other thing is that you have to be really detached to be able to go the friends route. If you're still attached emotionally I think it's pretty darn tough.
So, all said, based on what you've been through, where she's at, what she's done...I would recommend distance distance distance distance. I don't think she's likely to turn around suddenly, and trying to be her buddy is only going to shield her from the consequences of her choices.
As for the list, I doubt you'd ever show it to her. That is mostly for you, so you hold firm if she tries to manipulate you by throwing you crumbs of the relationship you really want. My recommendation would be not to bring a list like that out unless it was in the presence of a marriage counselor that you two went to, and the marriage counselor would have to come after she showed interest in doing whatever was necessary to repair the marriage. I don't know that's going to happen, certainly not soon...what I'd recommend is that if she EVER asks anything even close to whether you'd want R, or anything like it, I'd just stall for time and say something like "Those are important decisions for our family. I'm not interested in jumping back into anything, and I certainly wouldn't want to go back to the relationship we came from. I would be open to hearing what your thoughts are on whether you think it is possible to rebuild something out of this..." Then if she really wants to talk, I'd insist on enlisting a counselor to help you through the discussion...then I'd hit her with my requirements. Hopefully by holding to that boundary you won't get manipulated.
Bottom line, whatever you have to do to detach, protect yourself with boundaries, and start moving through your grieving process is what I recommend. It's a long shot she turns around, and those chances don't go up if you're attached/pursuing/hopeful. And if she doesn't turn around you're much closer to where you want to be in a year in terms of getting through this hell.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Thank you Zuess. I am doing well at detaching, she is good at drawing me back in but I am working on defining my own boundaries and not letting that happen. And starting to create distance. Finance distance, emotional distance (I quit texting back when she texts me) We are in the same house but I am still able to create distance, she is helpful with that because she is never around. I am getting used to being alone, I just spend time with my son, way more than I ever used to. Again I am working on the understanding and acceptance of what my new life is, and what it had really been this last 10 years. Looking in the mirror and figuring out my fault in this relationship. I will use this reflection to help me in my current relationships, future relationships, all relationships. I can be selfish - I think we all can to a certain degree.
M 21 years XW 43yo, me 41 yo S13 BD March 2016 - she asked me to patient... End of June - I started the D process. D final 2/23/17 "He who forgets will be destined to remember" Eddie Vedder
Zuess, WTF, I cant keep the duct tape on my lips. She started a conversation about $$ and accused me of opening my own account before telling her, which I didn't. She wondered why I am doing this, and accused me of making this all about money. I need to learn not to trade words with her. We had an R talk, she showed some remorse and for the first time said she was sorry. She said she has said it before, the only time she has was in an email or two. She keeps sucking me back in emotionally, I see what you are saying about detaching, and being completely detached...I think. This is letting go of the relationship that we once had, grieving the loss of that. If she turns around then we rebuild a new relationship or if she doesn't I will be that much more ahead of the game when the big D hits, am I understanding the two major reasons for the detachment correctly? It is hard, because the more I detach, the more she does, but I think I understand that also, we probably both need to detach for the same reasons. I need to stop talking about the A's because your right, it does two things, it makes her think that I can never forgive her, so she perceives that any effort to R the M would be wasted, and it makes her feel like crap. The other mistake I made last night was I missed validating her feelings (I more than missed it, I discredited them), something that I have done constantly in the past, big mistakes I know. This is something that I really need to work on, I am selfish and when her feelings are a direct result of our M problems and I see it differently I immediately think she should feel like I do, she doesn't and I seem to miss that detail.
M 21 years XW 43yo, me 41 yo S13 BD March 2016 - she asked me to patient... End of June - I started the D process. D final 2/23/17 "He who forgets will be destined to remember" Eddie Vedder
You can make lemonade out of lemons. Why not shoot her a quick email saying something like:
"Thank you for sharing so openly last night. I can see that you have given a lot of consideration to how this has impacted me and I appreciate how difficult it can be to own up to any of that, particularly when you've been through so much due to my shortcomings. After we talked I realized you probably didn't feel very heard, so I wanted to reflect what I took away. What I heard you say was _________ and _________. Whatever else happens we will need to be able to communicate about S13, and I hope we can do better as coparents than we did as a couple."
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
So last night, unprovoked she opened up a little. I shut my mouth and listened. She said some things that came from below the cloud. Not talking in absolutes, but letting me know that she is trying to figure out what makes her act like that, and seek that attention. She feels it is a trust thing but not quite sure exactly what it stems from. She also jumps back and forth from that to just plain made some shitty choices. She also admitted that when she fires back at me about my lying about my nicotine addiction it is just a defense mechanism. I didn't say much except that I do understand how my lies hurt her, and told her I know how that feels also. I did good to just listen and not trade words. She was honest about her feelings and honest that she knows that she made a mistake. I know it is not a huge revelation, but definatly a baby step. I will continue on my course. I have to be clear about my decision to D, I do know this, I have an unconditional love for her and my family. That doesn't mean that I can sweep this under the rug, I will redefine who I am and the man I wish to be in a relationship, this I know has to happen. Someone recently gave her a book about nicotine, and being sympathetic to the addict of nicotine. We talked about that a bit and I told her that it [censored] that I can't come to her and say man I slipped and I am smoking or chewing again. If I did it would be a huge argument and she wouldn't trust me. Well she also acclaimed that she knew how that felt. I have a hard time believing all that she said, but I could just tell there was a glimmer of truth there. I have known her a long time and can recognize when she is sincere. I understand that she is probably realizing that since I have pulled my half of the finances from the general fund that I may not be an option at all right now. The last thing she said was if I wanted to trade her for the MB, I was more than welcome too. I may take her up on that. I would love to sleep in the bed I bought with cash using my bonus money.
M 21 years XW 43yo, me 41 yo S13 BD March 2016 - she asked me to patient... End of June - I started the D process. D final 2/23/17 "He who forgets will be destined to remember" Eddie Vedder
Well, I did a stupid thing last night. I suck at this DB thing sometimes. I went for a bike ride, my buddy asked me what the hell was wrong with me, something wasn't right. He asked if my W had a boyfriend and I spilled my guts, I shouldn't have done this as they are mutual friends. It makes me wonder if he didn't know more than he was letting on. Well after we had dinner and 2 pints of beer I was driving home and saw her car at her watering hole. So I stopped in to say hi. She said what are you doing here...her to bust me or something? I said no I saw your car and wanted to say hi and buy you a drink. She busted me looking at her hand, which didn't have a ring on it. She said I don't have my wedding ring on because I was cleaning my dads house. I messed up and said, well your at a bar with your wedding ring off, how does that look. She stormed out of there without saying a word. I am so sick of this one step forward and two steps back...I cant seem to get it right. I should have just drove on by that place I guess. Feeling pretty crappy today.
M 21 years XW 43yo, me 41 yo S13 BD March 2016 - she asked me to patient... End of June - I started the D process. D final 2/23/17 "He who forgets will be destined to remember" Eddie Vedder
Don't worry about it; the deck is stacked against you regardless. You had every reason to stop by the bar. If she wasn't a WW she wouldn't have gotten upset about you checking for her ring.
For some strange reason that reminds me of the scene in Pulp Fiction with Christopher Walken telling the boy about his father's watch. "I had this incredibly uncomfortable hunk of metal up my..."
Tofbrks - I like the idea about a horrible bosses arrangement!
I totally feel like the deck is stacked against me, sometimes I feel like I am being compared to the OM, so while I am DBing and not meeting her needs, she says that I am not doing that, and that I haven't for a long time. She is getting those needs met elsewhere, which totally stinks, because she won't even give me the chance to do it. I hate having a WW.
M 21 years XW 43yo, me 41 yo S13 BD March 2016 - she asked me to patient... End of June - I started the D process. D final 2/23/17 "He who forgets will be destined to remember" Eddie Vedder
