I just joined DB in the hopes of finding some guidance and advice on what I should do with my current situation.
H and I have been married for almost 3 years; together for 9. No kids.
A few months ago, H found out that I was having an A with an old friend. He found out in the worst way - the OM's W called him while H and I were on a trip. I denied and denied until I finally admitted to it. The A started a few years ago, before we got M; it started out as an EA and slipped into a PA.
Since the discovery, you can imagine that our life has been turned upside down. With my H present, I had a conversation with the OM's W and apologized for my actions (It turns out that I was just one of many others who he's been talking to, though i'm not sure he's had sexual relations with others). A scorned woman, she also said I'm not a woman and I don't deserve to be loved ever again.
I have cut off all contact with OM, and have disclosed details of my A to my H. Every day has been a struggle and an emotional rollercoaster for us. Almost every day for the past few months, we have talked about the A, why this happened, our shortcomings, our past problems, how hurt he is, how sorry I am, etc. We even set aside 1:1 sessions every Sunday morning for us to talk for an hour about our relationship - what's good about it, what needs improvement, anything.
I've been reading web sites and books, and it has tremendously helped me be more introspective and explore the reasons why I betrayed him and did what I did. We have also been going to counseling for the past few months, which has helped to uncover so many issues about myself that I guess made me vulnerable to an A (co-dependency issues, low self esteem, etc.) While some sessions have definitely helped us both, lately, it's been not so much for him.
For the past two weeks, he has become distant and withdrawn, saying he doesn't have anything else to say, the energy to invest in the R, and wants a D.
One day he says he loves me and the next day, he's cold-hearted sending me text messages seething with anger and hatred, telling me he wants me out of his life, that too much has happened for our M to be saved and back to what it once was. He thinks I will never change (continue to lie, betray him, ride things out until everything is back to normal, etc.) He has asked that I sleep in the guest bedroom, but every now and then, I'll go into our bedroom to talk about things I'm reflecting on, express my sorrow for the hurt I've caused him and the damage i've done. This sometimes leads to us having sex, but sometimes he has intrusive thoughts about me being with the OM.
I realize the extent of the catastrophe I'm in, and am so sorry for what I have done to him, and our M. I am doing what I can to show him that I can change (owning up to the A 100%, being accountable by telling him where I am and what time I'm coming home when I'm out with friends, etc.)
I desperately want to save my M from falling apart, and I don't know what else to do. If I understand the concept of 180s correctly, I need to show him I'm trustworthy, I need to open up more and communicate with him, be a better listener, and not take him for granted. But with him being so distant, I feel paralyzed - I want to be able to reach out, communicate and say something, but his actions sometimes deter me.
I understand that if I want this M to survive, the heavy lifting will be on my part, and I also understand that despite my efforts, we may still end up D....
-
Last edited by Cristy; 06/21/1601:48 PM. Reason: As stated in our OnLine Community Board Rules, we do not allow recommendations of non-DivorceBusting books / websites / blogs etc
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Jo88, I'm glad you came here, although I'm not going to lie, it is rough to hear from the WS and feel compassion.. Although I do respect that you are here to save your M. It takes a lot of strength to say your the WS in a room full of LBS, and I applaud you for that.
I think you said the A has been going on since before you were married... I can tell you as a LBH that is mind blowing. What have you said to your H about taking M vows with him while having an A? I will give you my perspective. My W had an A with someone from her fire station, while the A was going on, she took me to the station, showed me around and introduced me to all the people that were there (OM wasn't there). After I found out about the A, I couldn't stop wondering if we had walked by a spot where they had kissed, did I stand next to his locker at any time, did my truck being in the parking lot make her think about his truck in the parking lot where they would sneak off to and make out...
I want to understand how she could bring me to a place where that was going on, look me in the eye, and not break down, it made/makes me feel very disrespected, unloved, and almost like she had fun flaunting it even though I didn't know. Your H has to deal with that 100 fold, so again I ask, what have you told him to explain what was going through your mind when you where with him for all those special moments, knowing that you were also with another man?
M - 9 1/2 years 5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA 10/31/16 - We sold house 01/10/18 - D Finalized
Oh, and I would suggest you read through bluwaves thread, her husband had an A, and they've been working for a year to piece their R back together. It may help give you some perspective of what your H is feeling.
Welcome Jo88. Sorry that you find yourself here. I am sure you are going to get a lot of attention on your situation. I think it is great that you are owning up to it 100 percent. This is something I wish my W would have done a few years ago. Coming from the other side I can tell you right now that your H is on a roller coaster of emotions. It took me a good 6 months at least once we started reconciling before the ups and downs were so big. This going to take a lot of patience on your part. Don't give up. If you want your M to work then continue to do the things you need to do for that to happen. Understand though that DBing isn't about saving your M. It's about becoming the person you can be. If that saves your M, then great. If it doesn't then ask yourself who do you want to be? Do you want to be in this situation again? It would be helpful to get more background as well. How old are y'all? How often was this going on? Did he have any idea at times?
M 37 W 30 S 7 Together 10 years Married 9 years BD: 12/12/12(W filed same day) I moved to apartment 1/11/13 W and S moved to MIL 1/11/13 Peicing: 6/3/13 Reconciled: 7/2013 BD2: 4/20/16 still working on it
Thank you for the welcome packet Cadet, Coconut and cbtdad.
@Cadet - I'll make sure to read through all of these. I imagine it will take some time getting used to all the terms used here, and apply it to my own situation.
@Coconut and cbtdad - H and I are both 34 yo. Here are some more details. The A started in 2012, had little to no contact with him (via phone or physically) in 2013 when I got married, and in 2014. Re-connected in 2015. The details of my A with the OM primarily lived via text (sexting). We didn't email, talk on the phone, and saw each other about 10 times over the course of those years (lunch dates, dinner/drinks, and three hotel meet ups). OM got married in 2015, and continued contact with each other. He led me to believe that his M was just to help him get documented as a US citizen, and that while there was an existing relationship, he didn't really love his W.
The H had no idea - in fact, thought that the OM was long gone out of my life (He had initially expressed me not wanting to talk to him as a friend in 2010. I found myself in that position of eventually keeping my friendship with him a secret, which led to the A.)
For lack of a better word, I feel like (and probably am) an [censored], and know I probably don't deserve a second chance with the H. I've had a tendency of running away from my problems (even before I was with my H) and sweeping things under the rug, craved the attention the OM was giving me and fell into this slippery slope. I compartmentalized, and did it so well (to much shame) that it became easy to lie and live in a fantasy world. It breaks my heart just writing this about me.
In my self-reflection, the H and I discussed that I have to work on setting boundaries with other people, hence me becoming vulnerable. Growing up, my father also cheated on my mom, and maybe, this has something to do with me thinking this is ok? Idk... I admit, and the H does too, that we have our own relationship problems that may have contributed, but I do let him know that it is NOT the reason why I cheated.
The A has brought to light so many things about myself that I am not very proud of... I became the "toxic" one in the relationship. It has made me realize that I have a lot of growing up to do, never really loved or respected myself, and as a result, it made me disrespect my H and my marriage.
I absolutely never ever want to be in this situation again, and am committed to showing him this. The trouble is, as much as I tell him these things, obviously my words mean very little to him. So i have to show and prove.
I pray to be patient. I understand this will take a long time....
Welcome to the boards. Coming from the standpoint of "things I wish my WW was willing to do", here are some thoughts:
If he is still having occasional good moments, I would take one of those opportunities to just tell him "I am willing to do whatever it takes to try and win you back, is there anything I can do to help that?"
Have you asked him something direct like that? Have you followed through on what he said he needs?
Do you have a transparency plan? E.G. he can ask to see your cell phone or tablet or email any time he wants?
Do you know what his Love Language is? Giving him positive attention in the "language" he most understands could be a very good thing when he is open to it.
Me, WW - Upper 30s BD - Apr 1 2016 EA - Apr 7 2016 (discovered; ongoing for months; did not confront right away) Confronted wife about EA - May 17 Wife sent NC email to OM - July 11
First, I want to tell you that you are very brave to come here and air your dirty laundry regarding your affair. You are one of the lucky ones to come out of your fog and work to rebuild your marriage.
It is very difficult to heal from infidelity for both parties. Michele is actually writing a book about it right now.
You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004
A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.
Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
Wow. I must admit reading your situation is bringing back painful memories and giving me anxiety about my current situation. You sound very much like my W when you said this, "I've had a tendency of running away from my problems (even before I was with my H) and sweeping things under the rug, craved the attention the OM was giving me and fell into this slippery slope. I compartmentalized" It sounds like you craved the attention more than anything else. Where you not getting that from your H? My W had an A 4 years ago and it lasted for about 8 months. I know I left her wide open and vulnerable to that. She took some responsibility eventually. The way you are owning up to it and looking inward is very positive. This time around I am looking into me as well. I know I was verbally and emotionally abusive. It's tough to admit, but I see it clearly now. At least I know I can work on me so I don't bring this into another relationship. Whether that is with my W or someone new. So I think that is huge that you recognize that. Have you thought about IC?
M 37 W 30 S 7 Together 10 years Married 9 years BD: 12/12/12(W filed same day) I moved to apartment 1/11/13 W and S moved to MIL 1/11/13 Peicing: 6/3/13 Reconciled: 7/2013 BD2: 4/20/16 still working on it
As someone currently having to deal with a WW, your story hurts my heart (and broods anger) all over again. However, reading your remorse and desire to heal and improve your marriage shows me there is hope.
It will be very hard for him to trust you in the beginning. As others have mentioned you have to be pretty d@mn transparent for a few weeks, or as long as you both agree. You are also correct that you have to SHOW your remorse and desire to rebuild, rather than just saying words. These are the important things.
Lastly, you have to be prepared for the inevitable: You will hurt. He will bring up his pain, and you will owe him the opportunity to explain to you how your actions have caused him to hurt. For you both to heal and come back together, honest discussions of such must occur. But, he must also accept your remorse. Using the A as a weapon will destroy any reconciliation attempts....he will simply be hurting too much OR he's not ready to forgive yet. Forgiving such a thing is very difficult. If my WW came to me asking for forgiveness and wanting to heal our M and re-establish our family it would take a lot of soul searching for me to do so. (Her fear that I would attack her about what she's done is probably why she's said she's not willing to do the work necessary to rebuild. But, it's 'only' been a month. Today.)
Humble yourself. In this situation, it's really the best thing you can do. My WW is scared to admit to me she did a terrible thing, and how it's hurt me, her S and herself. Put your pride away and be selfless. Others can give you better advice than me, I'm really just saying what I wish WW would do for me.
Me: 35 W: 32 S: 4 T: 6 M: 4 Physical Separation official: 5/21 Currently: DR/DBing, Focusing on me and son
Cheating on a good person is like throwing away a diamond and picking up a rock.
Jo, thank you for coming here and sharing your story. Your posts will be especially valuable because most of us are/were the LBS and have had a spouse having an A. I know for me, when my H had an EA while we were together and then left me for her, it was so hard for me to understand. He was gone for 10 months and then came back. We have been working on the M (piecing) for 14 months.
Like you, my H has taken full responsibility for his actions. This has helped. He cannot say that he is sorry enough. Truly, sometimes I just need to hear that he is sorry every day. Another thing I will say is that it takes a very long time to understand and forgive. It is not a linear progression, but often bumpy. Even if things are going well for days or weeks, all it takes is a small trigger to throw me back in time and the PTSD strikes hard. Even yesterday I saw a car that looked like OW car and I wondered if it was her and if she was in my neighborhood. Sounds so silly, but it is terribly painful.
Now that things are settling and the triggers are fading, I can honestly say that I need to take a step back. I don't know your H, but perhaps as he gets more comfortable with you being committed and trustworthy, the more he can safely allow himself to feel his anger (without fear of pushing you away). That has been my experience anyhow.
I think you are doing the right thing. Take responsibility for your actions, keep letting him know that you are sorry and that you are committed to making this work. Keep letting him know that you understand that this could take a long time and that you will remain by his side through it. And mostly keep working on yourself. As you become a healthier and stronger person, you remain desirable to him. I agree with the others that consistent action over time is what will lead to the M surviving.
Even if your H is saying that he is done, wants out, is ready for D, please remember that he is hurting, angry, and scared. I have said these things myself many times in the last year. Sometimes I mean it and sometimes I don't. If he is not taking actions--and consistent actions--to move out, file for D, and is saying that with a clear, rational mind, he is very likely just wounded and struggling.
Try not to keep beating yourself up; the guilt can destroy you. Learn to love and forgive yourself. As you can do that hopefully he can too.
-Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
thank you everyone for the support- I truly appreciate you letting me know how brave I am to air my dirty laundry on this forum.
@EDF- I have been transparent- he knows my passwords to my phone, email. I share him my location whenever I'm out with friends, etc. I have also expressed my intent to do willingly do what it takes to save our M when we have good moments.
Obviously, it still is a work in progress however. His gripe with me is that he thinks I have not communicated enough with him; that I won't speak or say something unless he brings it up or asks a question; therefore he's under the impression that I'm still hiding things from him.
I am not yet familiar with his love language. Are you referring to the 5 Love Languages book? I just bought this the other day but have yet to go through with it.
@cbtdad- I am sorry if my situation is bringing back painful memories for you. I can only imagine how hurt you were when you found out. One of the problems we had in our relationship was not learning how to communicate effectively. With every fight, we established this cycle of addressing the problem but not really resolving it. I resented him for many things, but never told him about it or ignored it thinking it would just go away. Sometimes when we argued, he would speak to me as if he was my father, not as his SO. He had a habit of shutting down on me for days because he didn't want to talk. As a result, I felt isolated many times, afraid to open up to him.
We have been doing couples therapy, but there have been instances where the therapist has asked to meet with us individually. Two weeks ago, I was with her alone. Last week, we were together. This week, she wants to meet with him alone to even it out as well as flesh out his feelings of wanting to D.
@RSG - He has expressed on a few occasions that he is not willing to forgive me. Says that he will always resent me for this. I know that all i can do right now is to pray for forgiveness. It may or may not come, so I know not to hold my breath. Instead, I know to just focus on showing him my remorse, showing him that I empathize and understand the scope of the hurt and damage I caused him, and slowly proving him that I can and will change. I just don't know if he's willing to accept that yet.
I went to confession a few months ago, and confessed my infidelity to a priest. His penance for me was not a few Hail Marys or anything. He said to "Keep working on it."
thank you everyone for the support- I truly appreciate you letting me know how brave I am to air my dirty laundry on this forum.
@EDF- I have been transparent- he knows my passwords to my phone, email. I share him my location whenever I'm out with friends, etc. I have also expressed my intent to do willingly do what it takes to save our M when we have good moments.
Obviously, it still is a work in progress however. His gripe with me is that he thinks I have not communicated enough with him; that I won't speak or say something unless he brings it up or asks a question; therefore he's under the impression that I'm still hiding things from him.
I am not yet familiar with his love language. Are you referring to the 5 Love Languages book? I just bought this the other day but have yet to go through with it.
@cbtdad- I am sorry if my situation is bringing back painful memories for you. I can only imagine how hurt you were when you found out. One of the problems we had in our relationship was not learning how to communicate effectively. With every fight, we established this cycle of addressing the problem but not really resolving it. I resented him for many things, but never told him about it or ignored it thinking it would just go away. Sometimes when we argued, he would speak to me as if he was my father, not as his SO. He had a habit of shutting down on me for days because he didn't want to talk. As a result, I felt isolated many times, afraid to open up to him.
We have been doing couples therapy, but there have been instances where the therapist has asked to meet with us individually. Two weeks ago, I was with her alone. Last week, we were together. This week, she wants to meet with him alone to even it out as well as flesh out his feelings of wanting to D.
@RSG - He has expressed on a few occasions that he is not willing to forgive me. Says that he will always resent me for this. I know that all i can do right now is to pray for forgiveness. It may or may not come, so I know not to hold my breath. Instead, I know to just focus on showing him my remorse, showing him that I empathize and understand the scope of the hurt and damage I caused him, and slowly proving him that I can and will change. I just don't know if he's willing to accept that yet.
I went to confession a few months ago, and confessed my infidelity to a priest. His penance for me was not a few Hail Marys or anything. He said to "Keep working on it."
Thank you for your insight Blu. Things are still fresh and the triggers come pretty often. I often have a hard time figuring out what to say or do when the PTSD strikes.
I remain hopeful, but those moments are often fleeting. Especially when he randomly texts you how much he hates you.
Jo, thank you for coming here and sharing your story. Your posts will be especially valuable because most of us are/were the LBS and have had a spouse having an A.
Another thing I will say is that it takes a very long time to understand and forgive. It is not a linear progression, but often bumpy. Even if things are going well for days or weeks, all it takes is a small trigger to throw me back in time and the PTSD strikes hard. Even yesterday I saw a car that looked like OW car and I wondered if it was her and if she was in my neighborhood. Sounds so silly, but it is terribly painful.
Now that things are settling and the triggers are fading, I can honestly say that I need to take a step back. I don't know your H, but perhaps as he gets more comfortable with you being committed and trustworthy, the more he can safely allow himself to feel his anger (without fear of pushing you away). That has been my experience anyhow.
I think you are doing the right thing. Take responsibility for your actions, keep letting him know that you are sorry and that you are committed to making this work. Keep letting him know that you understand that this could take a long time and that you will remain by his side through it. And mostly keep working on yourself. As you become a healthier and stronger person, you remain desirable to him. I agree with the others that consistent action over time is what will lead to the M surviving.
Try not to keep beating yourself up; the guilt can destroy you. Learn to love and forgive yourself. As you can do that hopefully he can too.
-Blu
Yes, I think blu hit it on the head. First, your insight into the mind of the wayward wife (WW) will be of great benefit to many LBH on the board, and as you receive help or even a shoulder to lean on, you will find time to post on other peoples threads.
I think it is so important to tell your husband you are committed for the long haul, that you understand you hurt him deeply and you are willing to wait as long as you need to for him to know what he wants. I was a complete mess the first month after I found out about wife's 3 week EA with kissing, so I would expect it will take him awhile to process his emotions. But I felt like I had to hurry up and get over it, or my W would just go look elsewhere. I think that made it harder for me, because I didn't feel like I could handle processing my emotions and trying to make our relationship better at the same time, I often felt like I was faking it.
Have you written a no contact letter to OM and allowed your H to mail it? If not, ask for advice, but it needs to clearly state that you are ashamed of what you did, that you love your H and am committed to him and only him, and you do not ever want to receive any type of communication from him ever again.
M - 9 1/2 years 5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA 10/31/16 - We sold house 01/10/18 - D Finalized
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Cadet, do the same links apply to her sitch? Jo is trying to regain trust after having an A. I wonder if DB would further hurt H and create more distance? As someone on the other side of the fence, i wonder if she should be doing the opposite--checking in with him more, offering him reassurance, apologizing when he expresses his anger, and investing in time together.
I know my sitch is different, but if my H started doing that soon after his A, I would not understand why he came back. Don't think we could have survived piecing as long as we have if he started detaching, doing 180s, and not initiating R talks. In fact right now, I don't see him intiating much of anything and I find myself lacking motivation to work on things.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Thank you Blu, I was thinking the same thing. I do think that some of these links won't apply in my sitch given that I need to be transparent, maintain steady communication and re-establish trust.
While I'm still a newbie, it's been a great learning experience thus far being on DB and interacting with the community to get some insight from other people who have gone through similar experiences.
Cadet, do the same links apply to her sitch? Jo is trying to regain trust after having an A. I wonder if DB would further hurt H and create more distance? As someone on the other side of the fence, i wonder if she should be doing the opposite--checking in with him more, offering him reassurance, apologizing when he expresses his anger, and investing in time together.
You may have a point and sorry I did not read her thread first as I just usually post those links to everyone as their are still important things to read with in them.
Specifically pursuit and distance, Sandi's threads, validation and maybe some others.
Sandi was in exactly the same place as her and maybe reading her story might help.
Hi Jo, you are very brave to join us.......and the fact you are reaching out for help, tells me a lot about you. You will quickly discover that the overwhelming majority here are those who have been betrayed, left, or given the "bomb". That's not to say that you can't benefit. I have learned more from LBS's than I ever learned from my own H or from any book I ever read.
Quote:
I have cut off all contact with OM, and have disclosed details of my A to my H. Every day has been a struggle and an emotional rollercoaster for us. Almost every day for the past few months, we have talked about the A, why this happened, our shortcomings, our past problems, how hurt he is, how sorry I am, etc. We even set aside 1:1 sessions every Sunday morning for us to talk for an hour about our relationship - what's good about it, what needs improvement, anything.
I understand how tough it is. Have you experienced withdraws from the A/OM? It is very addictive, you know. Not only do you have to end all contact, but you may have to stay clear of attending any small events where OM might go (parties, friends, etc.). Also, block him on social media.
Quote:
I've been reading web sites and books, and it has tremendously helped me be more introspective and explore the reasons why I betrayed him and did what I did. We have also been going to counseling for the past few months, which has helped to uncover so many issues about myself that I guess made me vulnerable to an A (co-dependency issues, low self esteem, etc.) While some sessions have definitely helped us both, lately, it's been not so much for him.
It's good to find the reasons behind why things happen, but it sounds as if he is needing something perhaps the C is not providing. I don't know how familiar you are with Gottman, but you can research him on the Internet and about healing after the affair. See if your MC uses Gottman's techniques.
Quote:
For the past two weeks, he has become distant and withdrawn, saying he doesn't have anything else to say, the energy to invest in the R, and wants a D.
I had to learn that the betrayed H goes through different stages. At first all he can focus on is getting his W to end her A and not leave him. He has kind of a delayed reaction to everything later. Not to cause you worry, but to understand that they reach a place that they could become the WAH. It really is easier to start a new relationship than go through reconciling a M. Also, he could still be in a little shock, disappointment, etc. And, they reach that point of anger. They have time to think of how they didn't deserve what happened, etc. So, it's important that he gets the therapy he needs to heal properly.
Both of you need guidance in healing & repairing your MR. Yours will be different from his. My H would not attend MC with me, so this board became my therapy, so to speak. It's been nine years for me, and I am here b/c of the help I received when I was having an A.
Quote:
For the past two weeks, he has become distant and withdrawn, saying he doesn't have anything else to say, the energy to invest in the R, and wants a D.
My H told me he had done nothing wrong. Then he told me he wanted to see me put forth 100% effort into our MR. I thought, "Are you kidding, Mr. Self-righteous? I've always been the one to put in the effort in this MR!" Somehow, I was able to keep my mouth shut. We are still together. Your H is going through his own personal hell right now. This is not going to be easy for either of you.
Quote:
I realize the extent of the catastrophe I'm in, and am so sorry for what I have done to him, and our M. I am doing what I can to show him that I can change (owning up to the A 100%, being accountable by telling him where I am and what time I'm coming home when I'm out with friends, etc.)
Is he checking your phone & email for messages? If you have a habit of keeping your phone glued to your hand, be sure you lay it down and walk out of the room (when he is there to see it), so he will have an opportunity to check it. Also, be sure you do not absentmindedly walk into another room when you answer your phone, b/c that appears as if you want privacy. Always have your home computer monitor where he can freely see it. Never close any door when you are on the computer. Do not erase or clear history from the computer. If you accidently run into the OM at a store, be sure you turn and run away. Then tell your H, immediately. We tend to want to hide those type of things, thinking what they don't know can't hurt them. However, you must tell him. If he found out some other way, he would assume you are lying to him.
Quote:
I desperately want to save my M from falling apart, and I don't know what else to do. If I understand the concept of 180s correctly, I need to show him I'm trustworthy, I need to open up more and communicate with him, be a better listener, and not take him for granted. But with him being so distant, I feel paralyzed - I want to be able to reach out, communicate and say something, but his actions sometimes deter me.
I understand that if I want this M to survive, the heavy lifting will be on my part, and I also understand that despite my efforts, we may still end up D....
You've got it. Like I said, so much is geared toward the LBS, but you can learn a lot here and I think get support in your efforts. I will be around, and I'll try to help any way I can.
I'm going to close this post, and finish reading your thread. Then I'll probably have more to say. For now, just know that you have one here who understands, okay? I have been in those shoes, and it is not a good feeling when we see what we've done. Things can become good between you and your H, but it is going to take a lot of time.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
This is touching. I am glad to see you here seeking help. It brings some hope back to me that good things can happen. Joseph Sandi will give you good advice. I am praying for you.
H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6 S-9,8,8,6,4 S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15 EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16 PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16 XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16 Finally moving forward...
The details of my A with the OM primarily lived via text (sexting). We didn't email, talk on the phone, and saw each other about 10 times over the course of those years (lunch dates, dinner/drinks, and three hotel meet ups).
Have you had your phone number changed? If not, consider it. Be sure you have no way of accidently seeing OM's name, picture, old messages, etc. Make certain all that old stuff has been erased. I stopped the email account I had used when I was in an A. That way, if the OM emailed me, I would never see it.
Now, I'm going to pass along to you the same truth that was given to me when I first arrived. This OM was using other women. You were not the only one. He could have been trying to gain citizenship, alright, but I dare say he was involved in other affairs. Also, don't be surprised if he tries to contact you at work, or wherever, in about a year. When he's used up all his old A's and/or gets bored, and he decides to just make a friendly contact with Jo. If he gets through some way......make sure he knows without a doubt you are not available nor interested.
Quote:
I absolutely never ever want to be in this situation again, and am committed to showing him this. The trouble is, as much as I tell him these things, obviously my words mean very little to him. So i have to show and prove.
The most difficult thing you may experience is forgiving yourself. Since my own affair, I have lost my mother and my daughter. Just as I was thinking I had finally stopped beating myself up (at least on a daily basis).....then something triggers it again, like losing those closest and remembering their shock & disappointment in me. We have to help ourselves and get help for whatever we need, so that we are able to live with respect, instead of the constant shame. We will forever regret and feel remorse for what we did, and no matter how much we wish we could undo it.....we can't. I think one thing that helped me, was reading about the difference in shame and remorse. I encourage you to read about it, also.
Since you never want this to happen again, be smart and affair proof your M. You can research this topic. Don't be naive the way I was and just think it won't happen b/c of our morals or spiritual beliefs.
Quote:
Obviously, it still is a work in progress however. His gripe with me is that he thinks I have not communicated enough with him; that I won't speak or say something unless he brings it up or asks a question; therefore he's under the impression that I'm still hiding things from him.
I am not yet familiar with his love language. Are you referring to the 5 Love Languages book? I just bought this the other day but have yet to go through with it.
Excellent! I think the LL book will help you.
Quote:
He has expressed on a few occasions that he is not willing to forgive me. Says that he will always resent me for this. I know that all i can do right now is to pray for forgiveness. It may or may not come, so I know not to hold my breath. Instead, I know to just focus on showing him my remorse, showing him that I empathize and understand the scope of the hurt and damage I caused him, and slowly proving him that I can and will change. I just don't know if he's willing to accept that yet.
Are you willing to live with his unforgiveness? Is he the type to not forgive people? Never turn lose of resentments and grudges? If so, then he's going to have a terrible problem getting through this situation. Even if he's not that type, I think he has to work through a lot of stuff to get to the forgiveness. FWITW, I don't think a MR can be completely successful when there is unforgiveness. Sure, it will take him time, but eventually......you will need it if the two of you go forward. And, he will need it for himself.
You said something about showing him your remorse. Exactly how are you showing him? I'm not real good about that sort of thing, and I just cry a river.......which may not count to some men. Maybe the LBH's can help offer suggestions. It seems, however, that your H is needing something that you don't know how to provide, but I may be wrong.
He may become the WAH and you find yourself being the only one wanting to save the M. If so, you'll still get support here. Stick with us, okay?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6 S-9,8,8,6,4 S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15 EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16 PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16 XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16 Finally moving forward...
Sandi, I can't thank you enough for your support and words of wisdom here. I am encouraged by every single post I read.
I've been thinking long and hard about WHY I had an affair. I didn't need it- it started off as confiding in someone about some personal problems i was going through. I confided in him because my H (my bf at the time) argued pretty often about it and I looked for another POV and ultimately comfort, to be understood, to just be listened to. It eventually grew into something more and before you know it, the OM and I we were confessing to each other about our mutual attraction for each other.
Looking back, I guess what I was lacking in my relationship was the companionship and I sought in the OM as well as the constant praises and compliments for how beautiful I was, etc. My H also gave me compliments, but they weren't as often as I had hoped. The OM put me on a pedestal and made me feel like I was desired and his dream girl. It made me feel good about myself. With that said, I realize now that what I was really lacking was sense of security about myself and ultimately self love and self-respect.
In the beginning I experienced a little bit of withdrawal bc everything happened and ended so abruptly. But the more I think about things, I'm glad it did, because I have no desire to ever contact the OM again not speak to him. I have blocked him on social media and my cell phone. I feel disgusted and used. If I were to run into him, I will absolutely ignore, keep on walking and immediately tell the H.
I have asked the H if he wants me to change my phone #. He didn't really seem to mind that I keep it.
As for forgiveness. He is the type to hold on to grudges. He can go without talking to his friends for months bc of a silly argument. Am I willing to live with the unforgiveness? At this point, I am willing to go through anything to prove to him how foolish I have been for betraying him and taking him for granted. I do realize that if he were to forgive, it will come in two ways: forgive me and give me another chance, or forgive me and walk away.
I am having a hard time forgiving myself right now. I do believe that I need to go through this pain and hurt to fully grasp and understand what I have done. Until I can be at peace with myself, I don't think I can forgive myself.
Sandi, you raise an incredibly good question as to how exactly do I plan to show my remorse. I guess that's why I'm here on DB bc I do feel paralyzed. It has often been a river of tears, crying to him how depressed I am, how introspective I've been. But again, it's words vs actions, right? And I know I have to focus on doing, showing, etc. And this is where I'm kind of stuck.
I would love to show him a moment of bravery and how I'm working to re-establish trust by wishing I would see or actually run into the OM just so I can tell him about it. Is that weird?
I would love to show him a moment of bravery and how I'm working to re-establish trust by wishing I would see or actually run into the OM just so I can tell him about it. Is that weird?
It's not weird to want to show him you can be trusted. I don't think you need to run into the OM in order to prove to your H that you are trustworthy.
Jo, I think you are becoming a LBW, at least emotionally. You feel worthless b/c you are so ashamed of the A, your values are being questioned and/or judged, and your self value is shot to blazes. You are experiencing rejection by your H, and maybe his attitude or sense of punishing you with his behavior now. You are desparate for his forgiveness and acceptance of you, and for him to be willing to give you the chance to really work on the MR with him. But you fear he about to walk out of the door.
I believe one of the major stumbling blocks is due to the timing of each spouse not matching. When you are on........he is off. That sort of thing. I think you must give him plenty of breathing space. He is angry. He may not want to hear the OM's name. The weekly discussion of the A and the MR, probably needs to hold off at this time. At least, let him be the one to lead in the decision to have it, and let him lead in the discussion. If you have been the one who has done most of the talking, try saying less and see if he will say more. If not, then I would hold off on it. Sometimes, too much can be said......especially if the other spouse is not the mood to hear it.
I think you said you and H had had sex, since ending your A. Did you initiate, or your H?
At this time, Jo, I hope you will focus on conducting yourself with grace, poise, and dignity. You have tried to tell your H how sorry you are and how much you regret the A, and most of all......hurting him. Now, it is up to him as to what he choses to do. This has been going on for months. Personally, I would not continue to grovel at his feet. Some freshly wounded newcomers may think differently, but I don't believe any person should beg every day and go on and on about how sorry they are. I have heard that some spouses have a need to hear it more than once, and to be assured the unfaithful spouse is authentic. It is just me, but I believe there comes a point and time that you need to try and recover and start the work. If he is the type to not forgive, then you may have to move on..........otherwise, he will continue to punish you. You will know, I think, if he is expressing hurt, or if he is punishing. After a while, this becomes a very unhealthy lifestyle. Right now, you feel as if you should be punished. However, there comes a time of forgiveness, and I hope your H can do it.
You may have licked his boots after the A was discovered, IDK, but you cannot continue to project an image of unworthiness, even though you may feel very unworthy at the moment. The reason I say this is b/c of your description of yourself. Plus, people tend to treat us according to the image we project. That is why I said to conduct yourself with grace, poise, and dignity. Don't lay on the floor, clinging to his legs as he's trying to get away from you. Don't do any of those type of behaviors. I think it time to stop any physical acts that demonstrate clinginess & neediness. Also, if you are in the habit of texting him throughout the day, asking a lot of questions about where he's going, etc., try to lay off. Don't misunderstand, I am not saying to act cold or stop contacting him, but constant texting shows neediness and co-dependency. You are giving him breathing space.
I understand very well your need to have another person who really hears you. And, I understand the thrill of being told how good you look, etc. When it comes from someone other than your H, it's like a vitamin shot for the ego. This is what OM provided for you. I would not be surprised to learn your LL are words of affirmation. Those are the things that draw you into an A. The OM made you feel special. Men who string along other women, know how to talk and make that particular women feel good about herself. This need you have, will probably be the thing to pull at you. Even though you have nothing for this OM now, you must be careful that you guard yourself so you will not become vulnerable for another affair. At the moment, you are positive you will never do it again. But those emotional needs will starve out and you will be prey for some other man. Therefore, you need to find a way to feel good about yourself, feel confident, and find a female friend who will not share things you say. Hard to do these days! If nothing else, start a journal, writing out you thoughts.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Just to go into this a little further - this is not an uncommon occurrence that one crisis kicks off another crisis in a spouse. One very common script is for the LBS to become a WAS, if that is where you are at then it is possible that their are no actions that you can take other than working on YOURSELF!
I agree with Sandi in this observation and urge you to make yourself into a spouse that only a fool would leave and if your husband is still rejecting you then he is a FOOL!
What did you do back when you met your H to attract him to you. Think back to the beginning. You may be able to set some goals for yourself based off that analysis. How did you treat your H then?
Make your list. Post here if you would like feedback.
I am an LBH who's W had an A. Your H is angry now and definitely needs his space. He will need time for this to settle. Make some small 180s and see how he reacts, if it is positive you are doing the right thing, if his reaction is negative, try something else.
H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6 S-9,8,8,6,4 S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15 EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16 PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16 XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16 Finally moving forward...
The feelings of worthlessness have been a cloud over my head since the beginning. "How do you prove your worth to someone when you feel so worthless?" is what goes through my head constantly.
I do fear he's about to walk out the door, but am being mindful not to beg, plead, kick and scream. Up until recently, he's been the one initiating the talking - asking questions, telling me his feelings, complaining that I don't speak enough, etc. Then he went silent a few weeks ago, and only speaks when I bring it up. The weekly 1:1 sessions stopped for now.. I tried to initiate them, but didn't have any success.
Sandi, I think you're right about the timing. When he's off, I'm on, vice versa. I think I'm giving him the space he needs; or rather he just distanced himself, and I have no other choice but to respect his wishes. When we do speak to each other nowadays, it's about stuff around the house, making plans with friends, etc. I don't want to talk too much that it's to the point of exhaustion, and I'm also keeping in mind his frustration with me being reticent. But when I do initiate serious conversations, it's usually about me reflecting on these internal issues I'm realizing I have, how sorry i am for not taking accountability for that which led to the deterioration of our R.
This usually leads him to open up to me a little more, tells me he appreciates that I'm taking the time to see how this affects us, and hopes I continue to gain further insight on this so I can find peace.
As for our sex life - Shortly after the discovery, our sex life was through the roof - experimenting with things we've never done before, etc. He usually initiated, but it was often mutual. These past couple of times, because I've been sleeping the guest bedroom, it would usually take me going into our bedroom to have a pillow talk with him, and he would end up cuddling me and initiating.
Sandi, I was reading one of your posts last night about the WW and how she needs to let go of the resentment, disrespect and rebellion in order to move on and have an affair-proof M successfully. I found this incredibly insightful because it's true... it became a domino effect which started out with these pent up resentments I had, which ultimately led me to acting up, disrespecting and rebelling. As for me, it will require letting go of those three Rs in addition to low self-esteem, and a list of other co-dependency issues.
Taking yours and Cadet's advice, I need to figure out how to do that with grace, poise and dignity. He can't love me if I don't love myself first.
What did you do back when you met your H to attract him to you. Think back to the beginning. You may be able to set some goals for yourself based off that analysis. How did you treat your H then?
Make your list. Post here if you would like feedback.
I am an LBH who's W had an A. Your H is angry now and definitely needs his space. He will need time for this to settle. Make some small 180s and see how he reacts, if it is positive you are doing the right thing, if his reaction is negative, try something else.
JimKao - thank you for this suggestion. I will definitely think about this today and post for some feedback.
Hi everyone. Thank you Sandi for checking in. It's been a whirlwind over the past few days since I last checked in here.
On Thursday morning, H went to see our therapist alone because she wanted to flesh out his thoughts on wanting to divorce. He re-iterated that he feels there is no other choice to move forward, and wants to start having our MC sessions focus on "uncoupling." The therapist asked him if she should reach out to me to tell me this, but he insisted that it be best he does. So he calls me at work on Thursday morning and asks to meet for lunch. (We never ever meet for lunch during the weekday, so I immediately got nervous and thought that was going to tell me he's already filed).
During lunch, as he was telling me what he discussed during therapy, and what he wants to do moving forward, my heart just kept sinking and sinking. Deep down inside, he said he doesn't want to do this, he still loves me, but it's what he has to do in order to be able to move on. He feels as if he can't move past this because I will repeat the same mistakes, and the only way to move forward is for us to D.
Since that night, I've been sleeping in our bedroom next to him, and he has even embraced me and held me close at times.
But this past weekend was filled with a bunch of highs and lows. We were able to go to brunch with another couple, garden, and spend time with our families. But in between those good moments, there were low points - expressing his anger towards me, telling me, "I know we've had a couple of good days so far, but I still want a divorce." Yesterday, driving over to see his parents he said I should start looking soon for a L.
As you can see, I'm not really sure what to do. I just finished reading 5 LL book, and it's been eye-opening. I want to start applying and speaking his LL asap- I believe his LL is Quality Time/Quality conversation, and I've been doing my best to have conversations with him. If you recall from my previous posts, one of the things he has been so frustrated about with me is my lack of openness to telling him what I'm thinking and feeling.
As for other 180s, I'm thinking about giving up drinking. He made a comment the other night, "One thing I"ll be glad to see when you're not in my life is your drinking."
Should I start looking for a L? What do I make of his actions/words?
Jo88, I'm sorry to hear where you are with your H, but right now I am your H. I will say it sounds like you are truly remorseful and willing to do whatever you can do to save your M, and if I felt that way about my W I would be in a different place. Does your H know how you feel and what you are willing to do? Based on what you've said, It sounds like he does, but I have to ask because if I knew my W was there, I think I'd be more into piecing.
These are just my thoughts about what would make a difference for me, and may not apply to your sitch. I'd like my W to write me a letter, outlining why she did what she did, what was missing from us when she did it, what she thinks about it now (where she went wrong in our R, and what she wanted from me that I didn't give her) and what she is willing to do going forward, as well as what she would want from me going forward.
The problem is, your H now sounds like a WAS, so I don't know if this letter (which may be considered Persuing) would push him away, I can only tell you it would be a good thing if my WW would do it for me. I'm going to tell my W that I'm leaving in a month if she doesn't convince me otherwise in the next month that she wants us to work (and we've been piecing for a month). I just feel like she's had no consequence for her actions of having an A, and I don't want to feel like I'm doing all the work to fix a M that we both screwed up (I fully believe her A was worse than my neglect).
M - 9 1/2 years 5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA 10/31/16 - We sold house 01/10/18 - D Finalized
As you can see, I'm not really sure what to do. I just finished reading 5 LL book, and it's been eye-opening. I want to start applying and speaking his LL asap- I believe his LL is Quality Time/Quality conversation, and I've been doing my best to have conversations with him. If you recall from my previous posts, one of the things he has been so frustrated about with me is my lack of openness to telling him what I'm thinking and feeling.
As for other 180s, I'm thinking about giving up drinking. He made a comment the other night, "One thing I"ll be glad to see when you're not in my life is your drinking."
Should I start looking for a L? What do I make of his actions/words?
Continue to spend time with him then and see what happens? Focus on keeping things light and fun!
As for the other 180s, if you H really has a problem with your drinking, don't think, just stop drinking. This is a 180 that he will see immediately and it is probably healthier for you also regardless of the outcome.
H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6 S-9,8,8,6,4 S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15 EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16 PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16 XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16 Finally moving forward...
Coconut, I'm sorry that you're in the same position as my H. I am truly remorseful for what I've done, and he has acknowledged it a few times. But he also says he has no sympathy for me, which I completely understand. I don't expect anything from him.
I have told him that I'm 100% committed and willing to do anything to save our M, but to him, he says it's too late. He tells me that while it's been good that we've been able to understand a little bit more why we got here in the first place, and commends me for being so introspective and genuinely hopes I change and become a better person for this, he also feels that at this point, there is no point in giving me the time to prove myself to him because he's afraid he will only be disappointed again.
I'm not sure if writing a letter to him will work as I bring these issues to him in person when we're in bed, or driving to work, or in the house. Maybe I can still give it a shot.
Thanks for the encouragement JimKao. I will continue to think of some other things that frustrates him about me and start doing a 180. Just ordered Michele's Divorce Remedy book and waiting for that so I can start reading it.
I feel there is still hope. The more 180s you can do to improve the better off you will be. Write them down, even the smallest ones he will notice. He resents you and will not forgive at this point in time. Unfortunately you can't control that.
Dress up everyday even if it is just around the house. Put make up on. Look the hottest you have ever looked. Who knows maybe that will wake him up a bit and remember the beautiful person he fell in love with.
H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6 S-9,8,8,6,4 S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15 EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16 PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16 XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16 Finally moving forward...
There isnt anything that you can say that will change his mind. All you can do is to be the person you always should have been.
Continued, consistent change on your part in ACTION is the only way to change his mind.
It may not work to save this marriage, but at the very least, you will learn new behaviors that will follow you for the rest of your life.
100% realizing this as the days go by, Darkness. I am determined to work on myself and change myself for the better, but am slowly starting to accept that this much needed change is coming at the expense of my M and a beautiful friendship with the H. It makes me incredibly sad that it's come to this. I cannot change his mind or how feels about me unless I change myself.
He feels as if he can't move past this because I will repeat the same mistakes
I think this is the key right here.
There isn't anything that you can say that will change his mind. All you can do is to be the person you always should have been.
Continued, consistent change on your part in ACTION is the only way to change his mind.
It may not work to save this marriage, but at the very least, you will learn new behaviors that will follow you for the rest of your life.
I wholeheartedly agree with darkness. Try and shift the focus off of him and his plans and onto the only thing you can control, which is you. You are wounded and it will take you time to heal--time to understand yourself and time to forgive yourself. As you learn to heal yourself and get stronger, you can have a more fulfilling life, and ultimately he can learn to trust you again. It will be this consistent action over time that will also show him you have changed. This cannot be rushed.
Your H is very wounded and this will take a very, very long time to work through for him as well. It does not surprise me that he is feeling hopeless and wants to give up. He feels powerless and so he wants to take action--he wants any control he can gain--and so all he can do is file D right now. He cannot force himself to trust you, love you, and feel safe with you again. It's hard for him to do nothing, which for him may mean accepting the pain.
Perhaps the most you can do for him right now is listen, validate, and let him know that you understand this will take a long time. Let him know you understand the gravity of the situation and that it will take time for you both to heal. Let him know you plan to work on yourself and want to make changes but that you cannot do it for him, it must be for you. This is the truth.
Tell him the only thing you want from him right now is time. Let him know that you know he feels hopeless and wants to file for D, but that you both owe it to yourselves to take a step back and give yourselves the time you deserve to make sense of this mess you created. Perhaps if you take the pressure off to work on the M right now he can feel safe to start processing this. It takes time to know that we want to spend our lives with someone and it may take even longer to know that we no longer do.
I am sorry you are here. I don't know what your H will do, but I can relate to his pain. This wasn't just a bit of flirting or attention-seeking on your part, you essentially gave up on your M for a long time, or that is how he sees it. He is going to be wounded for awhile, perhaps years, but I do see hope. He still cares for you and wants to trust you, but his fears and resentment may get the better of him.
-Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Jo88, I think you got great advice from darkness and BluWave on how to handle the R piece. Also, JimKao has given some great advice on 180's, I really hope you followed the "don't think about it, just stop drinking" advice. It will make a huge difference in your life, and if you drink enough that you can't just stop, then look into attending AA.
As far as my comment about writing the letter, if you open up to your H about that stuff, then a letter is probably not needed, my W doesn't open up about that stuff, but I'd like to hear it so that's why I mentioned a letter.
M - 9 1/2 years 5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA 10/31/16 - We sold house 01/10/18 - D Finalized
I know every sitch is different, but I am thinking about the things my H has done well in the last year what has helped me find forgiveness. We have been piecing for 14 months, and I, like your H, have also questioned it or felt hopeless at times. My H also had an A for an extended period of time and 100% regrets all of it. This is still a painful reality for him.
The more time goes on, the more he sees what a terrible mistake it was and that it had nothing to do with OW and everything to do with HIM. She was only a distraction from working on himself and the M and it grew from a deep-seeded insecurity and fear of standing up for himself. ... I think you can only know why this happened by giving yourself time and doing a lot of soul-searching. I think H can learn to trust you if he sees that you want to make these changes for you and not just to prove a point to him.
Here are the things that stand out in my mind in my sitch. Perhaps some of these might apply to you as well?
1. Obviously he cut all ties with OW and offers complete transparency. 2. He has truly worked on himself and makes continual efforts to change in ways that better himself and the M. He sees his IC every week, he has read books, and is committed to recovering from being a Nice Guy (his issue) even when it is difficult for him to do. He is able to stand up to me now and this is imperative for him so he does not build resentment. 3. He has taken full responsibility for his choices and actions. He does not make excuses even tho we both know that OW pursued and manipulated to get her way. Even tho this has come to light, he is fully accountable for his mistakes. 4. He has been patient with me and the process, as this has been a roller coaster of emotions. He is committed to giving this as much time as it will take, knowing that I could give up at any moment. I know I have been difficult & irrational at times, but he understands the trauma this has caused me and he is committed to having patience and understanding from my perspective. 5. Lastly, he genuinely wants our M and our family intact. The more time goes on, the more he can see clearly that the A was the biggest mistake of his life, he is disgusted at her (and himself), and he is grateful that I am willing to work through this. Sadly, the more time goes on, the more he also can see the consequences of his actions more clearly and how many people he hurt. This is something he is dealing with and might be for some time.
So I am not suggesting that you are similar to my H, but I can say that knowing all of the above, and seeing it every day, has made it very hard for me to give up on him! And I have been so close to giving up many times! He is staying the course and showing consistency in his actions over time. Perhaps your H just needs to know that how he feels now is completely normal, but he owes it to himself to take more time to heal. It has only been 14 months for me, but I have come leaps and bounds from where I was when he first came back.
-Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Blu, I know our sitch is different and I don't know your full story, but what you wrote leaped at me.
Originally Posted By: BluWave
The more time goes on, the more he sees what a terrible mistake it was and that it had nothing to do with OW and everything to do with HIM. She was only a distraction from working on himself and the M and it grew from a deep-seeded insecurity and fear of standing up for himself. ...
-Blu
This resonated with me so strongly because I feel the same. I'm not sure what kept me from being introspective for so long, but the more I do some soul-searching, the more I'm beginning to understand that my A had nothing to do with the OM and absolutely everything to do with me and my insecurities and fears.
I've developed behaviors that I now know are rooted in my childhood and brought them into relationship after relationship: acknowledging problems don't exist (for instance, infidelity), always aimed to please my parents so I constantly repressed/denied my true emotions, disregarded my own needs and made everyone else my priority, unhealthy dependence on relationships, fear of being abandoned, fear of disappointing people (hence, lying/dishonesty); low self-esteem (I craved attention, needed approval and recognition), problems setting boundaries. Ugh. I'm no psychologist, but this is textbook co-dependency.
This is what I discovered about myself recently and it's been incredibly painful to admit that I never really delved this deep into myself before. What's even more painful is that because of my ignorance/disregard of it and lack of self-awareness, I made some horrible mistakes along the way that is making my H want to leave the M. At the same time, I'm glad I know now, because this is my challenge: what do I do about it, and how can improve myself?
As far as things I've done since the discovery: - I have cut off ALL contact with the OM and offered transparency. - I have taken FULL responsibility for my choices and actions. I constantly apologize and always tell him that I'm 100% accountable for making the decision to cross the line. No matter what problems we had going on in our relationship, this was no excuse. - Patience has become a necessity. I am 100% committed to giving this the time it needs for us to heal, individually and as a couple. I am constantly keeping in mind to put myself in his shoes - how would I feel and act if he did this to me? Believe me, there have been so many moments when I feel so discouraged and just want to give up, thinking he will never ever forgive me and this is a lost cause. No matter how angry and nasty he gets with me by saying, "I hate you so much, I want you out of my f***ing life", I am learning that I do have a choice: give up or choose to love him, despite hearing those words. - While we don't have any kids, our families have become close over the years and he treats my nieces and nephew as if they were his kids. Blu, like your H, the more time goes by, the more disgusted I feel with myself for not thinking through my decision to cross the line, and the consequences it will have on EVERYONE in our lives (our parents, siblings, nieces, nephews, friends). Our families don't know what's going on yet, and it would crush me even more if/when they know.
Unlike you, I don't know if my H is willing to work through this anymore. He feels like he's been hurt too many times by me, and the only way for him to move forward is to move on without me. I'm not expecting him to stay - the odds are stacked against me, so I know the challenges that lie ahead and the work that remains to be done. I am grateful for each and every day and moment when he allows me to hug him, hold him, touch him, kiss him. While he may not show it, deep down inside, I know he appreciates it. I took him for granted, and as daunting as it is sometimes, I remain committed to re-establishing trust in me and showing him his worth and significance.
Blu, I dont know your full story, but did he want to leave the M for the OW?
I'm not sure if writing a letter to him will work as I bring these issues to him in person when we're in bed, or driving to work, or in the house. Maybe I can still give it a shot.
Jo, I suggest you not bring up those issues when you are in bed with him. It could cause him to sleep away from you. I don't know that talking about those issues on the way to work is a great idea, either. I once read how important it is to send our kids off to school with a positive feeling. Well, I've learned it's true for all of us, b/c if we walk into the workplace with all that negative stuff ringing in our ears.......we may not have such a great day at work.
If I could go back in time, one of the first things I would change about myself would be to not talk to my H about something negative, repeatedly. My solution for dealing with my stress was to vent to my H. Well guess what? He was not seeing me in a very pleasant light. In fact, he usually criticized me, or said nothing at all. It seem to grate on him, and maybe it affected his feelings for me, IDK. But b/c it weighed on my mind, I wanted to throw it all out there at him. I called myself being open with him. Whenever I was unhappy about our MR, I would talk & talk & talk. It didn't work. I was pushing him further & further away from me. I also learned that when I wanted to talk about our MR, I would bring up years worth of cr@p that he had already heard. So, why did I think that talking about it again would solve anything?
Quote:
I constantly apologize and always tell him that I'm 100% accountable for making the decision to cross the line.
Why are you constantly apologizing? Do you feel that forgiveness comes by how many times you apologize, beg, berate yourself, etc.? He has chosen not to forgive at this time. Constantly talking about the issue and telling him how it's your fault, is not going to cause him to feel forgiveness. I am just saying that I believe you could overkill on the apologizing and self-putdowns. He doesn't want to get in the car, bed, or go to the dinner table and think, "Oh, here it comes again". Especially if the two of you are going to MC, he's getting it there, too. Do you see what I mean?
Since he is so angry and wanting to D you, I think you may need to stop initiating conversations about the A or the MR. Your need to want to be accepted and loved, may be playing into how you are responding. If he brings it up and needs questions answered, or needs verbal assurance, then answer it. He has to go through his own stuff and figure out how to deal with it. Right now, he is really mad......so if I were you, I would probably give him some breathing space, and when in bed, the car, or at dinner.... I would not take that opportunity to start discussing the very issue that makes him angry. Maybe focus more on being pleasant and making his time at home and alone with you an enjoyable one. Gently showing him that being with you is worth his time & effort.
It seems you have truly tried to convince your H that you feel a lot of remorse over your actions. You have said and tried to do everything you can, to get his forgiveness. The act of forgiveness is up to him. I don't think we can "earn" forgiveness. We might earn trust in time, but forgiveness is an act of grace, IMHO. Right now, your H is feeling too much pain and anger, and it's difficult for him to extend much grace.......but time can do a lot, if a person really wants to heal.
Maybe you are wanting to punish yourself. Maybe you feel you don't deserve your H, his love, his forgiveness. I think it is important for the WW to not only feel humble, but let her H see that side of her. I also believe it's important to maintain dignity. If you feel that you have done this, then I am suggesting that maybe it's time to get off your knees and start showing your H a lady who is peaceful, with an inner sweetness, and pleasing attitude. You do not have to wear a sackcloth and put ashes on your head. You can even smile at him.
Instead of talking about yourself and/or the A, maybe direct the conversation toward him and things you know he enjoys. Giving him an ego boost once in awhile, and showing you want to hear about him. If he doesn't want to talk, it's okay. It doesn't necessarily mean that's a rejection of you. If his LL is quality time, then just be there with him, and don't get all uncomfortable if there is silence. You probably know about men needing to go into their "cave", especially right after they get home from work. (It's a man thing).
I'm glad Blue is helping you. One of my main mentors was a LBW who was piecing her M back together. She helped me immensely.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Wow- I never looked at it that way, Sandi. Thank you for that insight... It's just that don't want him to think that this is NOT on my mind, that I'm forgetting/pretending as if it didn't happen and letting it "ride out" as he says I always do with our problems, so that's why I vent a lot to him. I wanted to let him know "Look this is on my mind too and I want you to know how sorry I am for putting us in this position."
One of his frustrations with me was that I wouldn't bring up issues about the A and my problems unless he asked about it. That all he wanted was to just tell him what's on my mind, what I'm feeling, what i'm thinking. I guess there's certainly a limit to this as too much negativity will only breed more negativity, so that was an extremely good point you bring up there... Perhaps when I do have negative thoughts, maybe I can find ways to bring up what I am doing about it instead so it shows that I'm not just venting a problem, but also finding a solution to it.
I will be much more mindful of not discussing the very issue that makes him angry every night before going to bed or in the morning when going to work. During these times, I catch him in silence with tears streaming down his face, and it prompts us to talk about the A and our problems a lot.
With him being less distant lately, we have been able to converse about some things not related to the A or our MR. I continue to do things for him (cook for him, pick up his dry cleaning) and even find things to do together, like garden or go shopping. We are going away this weekend for a wedding, and planned a surprise trip on the way back to a museum dedicated to his hobby (watch collecting), so I hope this will help take our mind off things for a bit.
Thank you again Sandi for this insight! Truly appreciate it.
In rereading my post and then sandi's, it is helping me to see things from another perspective! It is a delicate balance between not reducing yourself by constantly bringing it up and apologizing, but also being genuinely remorseful and accountable. It must be hard because your confidence is shaken and you are terribly sorry. At the same time you cannot focus on repairing the M if you need to heal, and I think he will respect that; he doesn't want to be with a doormat. So you are both going in circles.
My H knows nothing about DB, but I think he has been doing it naturally for the past year, which is why I haven't walked. He is focusing on himself and making the postive changes he needs to make, but he also stands up to me and creates boundaries for himself. This was an issue for him in our M before. If I bring things up and get upset, he listens, he validates, and he apoligzes. Then he moves on. In the beginning, I would get triggered and rope him into my drama and he would grit his teeth and deal. Now he has been better about drawing boundaries and I consequently have come to respect him more.
While it may seem counterintuitive, I think your H needs to see how serious you are about wanting to change for you and not for him. He will appreciate the changes as more genuine and sustainable. If you take the pressure off of needing to win him back and earn his forgiveness, he may realize he doesn't want to lose you. People are generally attracted to those that are confident and strong.
So I think it's ok to listen, validate, and apologize as much as he needs. However you do not need to reduce yourself by putting up with emotional abuse, him cursing you, telling you he hates you, etc. That is when you stay quiet, don't give him anything to bite, hold your head up high, and draw boundaries for yourself, "I hear that you are angry and upset and I am sorry you feel this way. As you know I regret my actions and what it has done to our M. I am not comfortble right now with what you are saying and need some space. This is going to take a long time, and as you know I need to make some changes for myself. When you treat me this way, it makes it hard to do that."
I am not suggesting that should be your script, but it is about tight rope walking between accountability and sensitivity with finding your own strength and confidence again.
I have watched my H walk this fine line for the last year. I know it's not easy.
Hang in there!
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Thanks for that bit of insight Blu. Tremendously helpful, and have been keeping it in mind.
It's been awhile since I last posted and some interesting things have happened. The H is still set on wanting to D, and the last couple of MC sessions have taken a turn from trying to resolve our issues and salvaging the M to "uncoupling" and discussing what needs to happen to move forward and prepare for a D. It's making me all so incredibly sad, depressed and angry.
I've been reading the DB book, and I'm finding it helpful so far, and plan to put into action some of my goals, GAL, and doing some 180s (like drinking).
During the sessions, my H brought up how resentful he is that while he was the one who was put in this situation (asking for a D because of my A), it wasn't fair that he also has to go through the motions of getting the process started to get a D. According to him, one of his biggest frustrations with me is that I always rely on him to make decisions and take initiative.
This puts me in an interesting position. Would it be the 180 of a lifetime if I - the one who doesn't agree to a D - were to take the first actions by gathering all the necessary documents, creating a spreadsheet to discuss budget and splitting finances, etc.? We are currently planning to live under the same roof as we cannot afford to get an apartment in addition to paying the mortgage.
I've currently been sleeping in the same bed, and he hugs and holds me in his arms at night. (He says he wants to make the best out of our last days together) Do I volunteer to move myself back into our guest bedroom?
As a WW trying to DB, my mind is constantly in a state of chaos about what I should do/shouldn't do now that D is slowly starting to become a reality and facing the fact that I will be a LBS.
During the sessions, my H brought up how resentful he is that while he was the one who was put in this situation (asking for a D because of my A), it wasn't fair that he also has to go through the motions of getting the process started to get a D. According to him, one of his biggest frustrations with me is that I always rely on him to make decisions and take initiative.
This sounds more like an excuse, to me. He is the one who wants the divorce, so he's the one who needs to do the leg work to get it.
Quote:
This puts me in an interesting position. Would it be the 180 of a lifetime if I - the one who doesn't agree to a D - were to take the first actions by gathering all the necessary documents, creating a spreadsheet to discuss budget and splitting finances, etc.? We are currently planning to live under the same roof as we cannot afford to get an apartment in addition to paying the mortgage.
You don't 180 everything, just b/c it's a 180 degree. If it doesn't serve you well, why would you do it? In this case, it would only be a bluff, and I'm not sure you are willing to play that game. He just might call your bluff.
Quote:
As a WW trying to DB, my mind is constantly in a state of chaos about what I should do/shouldn't do now that D is slowly starting to become a reality and facing the fact that I will be a LBS.
You already are a LBS.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Jo88, I agree if you don't want a D don't do the work. Even more so, I would not go back to that MC, and would instead recommend seeing if there is a therapist that follows Gottman principles, it's very good therapy for recovering from an A, or of course DB Therapists, but I don't know if they have MC. Just look up Gottman therapy and go to the institute website for therapists in your area.
Sandi2, I know it's not advised to give the WS's reading material, but do you think it would be good for the WW to give the LBH books addressing healing after an affair?
M - 9 1/2 years 5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA 10/31/16 - We sold house 01/10/18 - D Finalized
Sandi2, I know it's not advised to give the WS's reading material, but do you think it would be good for the WW to give the LBH books addressing healing after an affair?
I think the easiest way in deciding about giving material to the other spouse, is to ask yourself if both of you want to work on the MR. If one of you are pulling away and threatening D, then giving books to read will not be seen very favorably by the OS.
How are you doing, Jo?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Your H is going through his own personal hell right now. This is not going to be easy for either of you.