What should I be Doing (piecing 6)

[Coconut]

Previous thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2683646&page=1

[Coconut]

So quick update:
4/8/16 - W gave me ILYBNILWY speech
4/15/16 - WW started EA which led to kissing (3 times), EA lasted 3 weeks before I found texts and she ended it.
W is a volunteer firefighter and OM also there. My original boundary was NC, even if it meant to quit, which W really didn't want to do.

W started giving me frequent updates of whereabouts, and doing everything I asked to be transparent. I finally believed she wasn't communicating with OM, or interested in doing so, so I backed off my NC boundary and changed it to no communication.

I believed in my gut that she was out of fog and committed to MR, so I am being more talkative with her, and things are going well so far. We are doing things as a family, both sleeping in MBR (lots of intamicy now), our friendship is building and I rarely snoop or verify now, feeling confident in where we are and where we are going.

[Coconut]

I'm a little late to this thread and didn't read the first thread.

couple questions ---

1. does you wife still work with OM at the fire academy?
2. when does she finish at the academy
3.. once she finishes the academy will they or could they be placed at the same station?

As long as they are still seeing each other at work --- even if they aren't speaking --- the affair continues.

4. Were you there when the fire chief spoke to your wife about the exposure?

5. I wouldn't trust anything your wife told you. She may appear to be trying and working on things but such close proximity to the OM and, for the most part, the impropriety remaining a secret it's very easy for things to rekindle between them.

6. I'll let you answer first, but bottom line --- it is completely disrespectful and hurtful to you for your wayward wife to continue to trounce off to work, study groups, bbq's and meetings in the presence of OM. It's a slow torture that will eventually destroy your marriage.

7. Additionally, if you were truly "piecing" according to Michele Weiner Davis you no longer 180/GAL your wife by ignoring her, playing games, being distant especially when marital neglect was part of the circumstances that made your marriage susceptible to infidelity in the first place. Consider the term "180" -- it means doing the opposite of what you were doing (the last several years of your marriage). Becoming super husband would be your actual 180 --- not Sandi's non-professional 180 list (which generally applies to betrayed wives). A real confident man pursues what he wants. If you want your wife and marriage ---> fight for it.

8. That's not saying there is nothing on the list that applies. You don't want to be running around buying her gifts and saying too many "I love you's". There IS a delicate balance between being that dumped guy begging his wife/girlfriend for another chance and chasing her around for "serious conversations" versus being the confident guy that pursues his wife with a swagger and passion. What's nice is this is something you have experience with. You attracted her to you once before and considering your history together it should be easy to do again. You are her soulmate. You know her better than anyone. She never compared your kisses to OM's because OM barely knew her. Most former wayward wives report being super titillated by the secretive dangerous risky side of adulterous sexual relations but the actual act, when they think about it objectively later -- was awkward and uncomfortable. OM's are relative strangers. They might FEEL likes it's awesome - but feelings lie.

9. The point is ---> up your game and make her regret ever doubting you turn her on more than anyone else ever could.

10. Another thought ---> Don't try to make sex during recovery super passionate and deep. Your wife isn't there emotionally yet. It's still early and she's conflicted. To do what she did meant developing a hatred, blame and disgust for you. Her feelings of love, passion, empathy for you take time so focus more on wild fun sex that distracts and counters her conflicted feelings versus being all sappy. She wants to avoid feeling guilty right now and if you take it too seriously she'll sense it and it's a turn off.

Not sure why I didn't see your post at the end of my previous post, so I'll answer now, it will be a good update. I do this on my iPad so it's complicated to break up quotes, so I numbered everything.

1. My W is in the academy, OM is a firefighter at her station, which is also where the academy is. He does not hang out with her class, OM is only around her occasionally when they both report for a call (which are relatively short period a of time and there are always others around). The A was occurring on class nights where my W would stay at the station after class and he was there, or when she would go to the station to study and hang out, but she comes straight home now and she doesn't hang out at station anymore when not in class or calls.

2. Academy will end in 7 weeks.

3. she is scheduled to be stationed at the same station that he is. He is supposed to be moving and changing stations soon, but if he doesn't, I will discuss her moving to another station after the academy is over.

4. No, I wasn't there when her captain spoke to her, but I do know he called her that day (I saw phone record). I know he saw the texts because he is the only one that could delete them, it was his group me group chat.

5. I don't trust everything she tells/told me, and although possible, very very unlikely they could be continuing seeing each other privately, although texting would still be possible, it would be very very limited. I'm a smart person, I know what to look for, I've watched through binoculars while she's at the station, I've checked her phone multiple times, I even watched them both come out of the station at 2 am after a call without even a glance at each other (I was sleeping when she left, so no way she new I was watching). I have found Zero evidence of any communication. I'm in a good place, I don't currently have worries that would kill M.

6. See answer 1, they are not n any social settings together, she doesn't even go out on Saturday nights with others from station anymore.

7. I do not ignore her, most of my GAL activities are when she has academy, though some are on nights when she is off, she is usually studying anyways. I'm 100% present with her when we are together, but I also feel me getting a life benefits her and us, and I always update her with what I'm doing and respond when she texts or asks questions. And I always participate with her when she asks to do something. I am just careful not to smother.

8. No gifts yet, although will be getting her flowers this week and leave 1 or 2 notes on mirror or car this week letting her know I'm thinking of her and love her. I am being her soulmate right now and she is very receptive. For Nights out together, I am planning fun and new things to do together and we are both enjoying and connecting. She loves our new R.

9. I'm pulling out all the stops, even more so than when originally courting.

10. Not trying to make sex passionate, going with what we got, just commented on the lack of emotional intamicy, but not dwelling on it. I'm having a good time . And I know she's getting where she needs to be slowly, and she's having a good time for now too.

[Phoebe]

It's so good to see positive things here, Coconut. Thank you for contuing to post.

All the best!

[Coconut]

Bumping to see if Georgia Bulldogs is around... I'd like to get thoughts on if I'm living blind or if it seems like my W A is over.

[RSG]

Really glad to read continuous positive posts from you. It's hard, you've just got to try not to push too much at once. Things seem to be going really well!!

Thanks for your support! I'm feeling pretty good. I'll be posting an update on my thread soon, but I'm definitely on an upward trajectory. Father's Day gave me a couple setbacks as you might imagine, but I pushed through.

[Coconut]

So, I didn't even think to post this earlier, but I think it's note worthy.

Father's Day was a little rough , my Son (my step son) was at his biological fathers for the day, it was the first time that's happened in 8 years, he's always been with me at least at night. Also, my W has always bought me a Father's Day card, but not this year (I will say I don't care about cards, but timing says a lot. She did post some nice things on FB though). So anyway, I was ok with that, cause a calendar doesn't dictate what day I celebrate my son and my R, so I planned on spending the day with W. Not gonna go into whole schedule, but between her studying for academy and getting a project for work completed, I was basically by myself on Father's Day, other than a 2 hr dinner with her father. I went for a bike ride and did some other little things, but most of the day I felt like I was waiting for her to finish.

I was watching the NBA finals, and with about 10 mins left (what a great game), I fell asleep during a commercial. So wife wakes me up when she was going to bed, so I got up and when to bed. She's had a little bit of back pain going on for two days, so she laid on her back in bed, which means no snuggling, so I just laid next to her thinking:
- Mother's Day (4 days after A found out) I ignored her and did my own thing
- I didn't take son to get her a card or gift for mothers day
-Father's Day she didn't demand his biological father bring him home at night
- she didn't get me a card
- she spent all day on work or school
Etc.

So I got up out of bed, she asked where I was going and I said I wanna see who won game 7.. She asked if everything ok, and I (probably wrongly) said I'm just a little frustrated cause I spent Father's Day basically alone, you where doing your thing and son wasn't here. I went to go watch game, then with 2 minutes left in game she came out and said I really want you to come to bed (still didn't get to finish game, grrrr), so I went and we snuggled this time.

I think she kinda new what she was doing leaving me alone on Father's Day, but she sincerely seemed to be upset that I was upset about it, and I do not think she intentionally tried to hurt me.

Anyway, counseling rescheduled for tomorrow, overall everything going well. No R talks in like a week other than short one on Saturday I think, I haven't really snooped in over a week (but I'm gonna ask her to show me group me acct in next few days), but if somethings going on id be shocked, because she is acting absolutely in love.

My biggest concerns at this point are that she may not have to worked hard enough to get me back, I don't know if she fully recognizes the severity of the A, and I think she still sees my actions (detached from family) as being as bad as the A... But I do think she feels a lot of guilt about having the A.

[Georgia Bulldogs]

My posts are still subject to moderator approval so they sometimes show up late.

Bumping to see if Georgia Bulldogs is around... I'd like to get thoughts on if I'm living blind or if it seems like my W A is over.

The cornerstone or foundation of every solid recovery that I've seen requires "no contact for life".

Waywardism is a fantasy. It's not a real relationship. Even if they aren't talking, she can still glance at him (and him her) and wonder what they are thinking. Wonder if they are still thinking about each other. They often feel compelled to check in with each other out of supposed friendly concern that the other is doing OK. If the chief has ordered them to knock it off then it's like a "do not step on the grass" sign where our sinful nature compels our desire to break the rules so they give a quick verbal whisper to meet each other in the janitorial closet for a talk.

They hold on to the illusion that in another life and another time maybe they could have been together or found each other before all these other bothersome inter-personal relationships and responsibilities got in the way of their "meant for each other -- we're soul mates crap".

Your wife may be completely on board, legitimately hate the guy and never speak the guy again but it's a risk she shouldn't be taking or asking you to be OK with. The stress that puts on you every day is enormous. Part of the consequences of her behavior and still wishing to keep you in her life should be "no contact for life - no matter what it takes". If that means quitting the academy --- then so be it. She certainly can't be assigned to the same unit or whatever...but still seeing him at union meetings or city wide firefighter events is too much contact. All it takes is a little eye contact, a knowing glance and a note or whisper to meet and the affair is game on again. I'd suggest moving to another locale if she wants to keep at this dream because it "no contact for life" is just that important.

I helped one couple recover where the OM produced and recorded a demo tape with the WW and she had to give up signing completely. No church choir. No singing in the shower when betrayed husband was home. That was 10 years or so ago so I doubt it's that extreme anymore but your wife is demonstrating an insincerity and lack of empathy every time she walks out that door to go where OM is or may be, leaving you behind speculating and worrying about your life and future.

Sure you could/can risk it and let her finish what she started and not be a quitter but if you don't need the money and it's all the same she should look for another job. Maybe one without so many men around. Firehouses have a reputation.

[J5K]

Coconut,

I wish I was in your shoes but I have to say from what I have read from others is this stage is probably more difficult. Just take things nice and slow. I feel that her coming to ask you to come to bed is a positive. She is pursuing you now.

I would suggest you give her small positive things in return but also be cautious.

I am praying that your M turns out to be successful in the end.

[Coconut]

JimKao, thank you for posting. I wouldn't say this stage is more difficult, I can't imagine anything being more difficult than the first couple of weeks after bomb drop, but it definitely has its challenges.

I think the biggest challenge is realizing that your old W and R are gone forever, and knowing that your working on a new R with someone you already know can and will rip your heart out and stomp on it. My W may honestly not be willing to ever do that again, but it doesn't change the fact that I know she can and already did it. And even knowing that, still putting yourself out there.

Even though I'm happy in the right here right now, I'm still not 100% that we will last, I haven't had a single thought of us beyond 1 or 2 years from now. But I'm willing to keep working on us for now, while I continue working on me at the same time, and see where I am. I don't think I will take that look for at least 6 months though, because I know I at least want to give us a shot.

Georgia, her quitting the academy would probably be a deal breaker for our marriage. so at this point I need to decide to be ok with it or walk away, I'm not asking her to quit again, but that's not to say I am 100% ok with it either. But I can tell you that I will have strong boundaries about how much time I'm ok with her spending there socializing, or if I'll be ok with any socializing there.. I'll have to figure that out once she's out of the academy, and see how integrated I am into the station (there are a lot of family activities they do there, so I may become friends with many of them).


Today was our first MC, it went well, I really like the counselor. Today was pretty much just getting history, and I told W I'd like to give the history pertaining to my actions and she give the history of her part, and then we could both give additional info on the other we felt was pertinent. Worked out well that way and we each got to see how the other perceived their part. I told the counselor I'd like to tackle communication skills first and she agreed that would be a good place to start.

I've really been handling triggers extremely well, I haven't had too many, but when I do I've been able to process them and decide if it is something I need to discuss or ask. I haven't discussed or asked about any for a few days. I'm starting to feel like my old strong self again.