Thank you for the visit to my thread, Esame! And I love following your journey through this craziness. You are really putting in the work.
Good on you for all of the walks and runs and keeping yourself in shape! I've found that living in an apartment with a dog used to roaming the woods and fields all day is going to keep me in good shape (or drive me nuts). She wont poop til we're at least a mile from home.
Okay, so one thing stood out in your post that I had a thought about. I sort of have the same issue/question (amongst many others) about my H. The seeming inability or lack of interest in trying. So, here's what I'm finding...see if it fits. Its a complicated mess of issues.
a) Low feelings of self esteem/self worth. No one would think my H has this but me. I've seen him at his lows and heard him say he's a failure, not worthy, an ogre, a horrible person. It causes him to be a martyr, a "nice guy", a pushover, and allows himself to be used by others. But I get to see the real, the not so nice, the little boy that could never be good enough by just being himself. Why put forth the energy to try if your just going to fail or if you don't deserve to succeed? Your job: validate him, accept him, just be happy in yourself. It takes the pressure off of him and allows him to learn to trust that you accept him no matter what. Maybe.
b)Depression coming out as low energy and emotionally drained. Just the day to day existence when depressed makes putting forth effort to change anything just that much more daunting. Why try when you can't afford the energy needed to? Once again, your job: no pressure. You are the lighthouse; not the rocks, the tide, or the waves.
c)Stress. He just can't handle worrying about one more thing. So, you get jettisoned. When weighing work, parents, old age, pressures from friends and employees and all of the financial issues that stressed my H; by getting rid of the "responsibility" of me, he also lost a house mortgage, upkeep on said house, and a long commute. However, he is also paying for both of our apartments and utilities, both of our living expenses, and is going up to our vacation home much more...its actually pretty even. Trying to work on M is just more stress right now. Your job, again: No R talk, no pressure.Be the one he learns to go to for a listening ear, though.
d) He's not used to/doesn't know how to do it. My H will put forth effort into things he knows he can be successful in, or things he understands. But ask him to write a thank you note, set up an email account, make a friggin' phone call, or research something on the internet...its like you asked him to venture into Hell and give the devil a kiss and be back in time for dinner. Your job...well, this is so one-sided. Work on yourself. Do ALL the work. And cross your fingers, take a deep breath, and hope you like whatever the outcome is. And can keep up with the timeline.
My H is a mess hiding behind a "good time Charlie" mask. He can be fine at work, fun with everyone on the weekend, but cries over his childhood sleeping bag while telling me he's not worthy and sobs in my arms. There's enough going on that I no longer wonder why he doesn't try. Why would he? He must be exhausted. So...I guess I'll just try to be the one thing that he learns is safe and doesn't ask so much from him. No pressure here. Hopefully.
Could any of that apply?
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Thank you for your replies guys, once again, I really appreciate all the support!
Things have been difficult for H and I, so taking into account that in a few days I'm going away for the summer we decided to call this our trial separation and review things in September. Funnily enough, I'm ok with this. I didn't think I would, but I feel that I am under a lot less pressure now than before. It is so strange, I'm almost relieved. I don't know where this strength is coming from, but I rationalised things in my head, and realised that he definitely needs help. Before our trial separation he dumped 10 years worth of complaints on me, and I felt crushed. But then I thought that even though I don think most of it is true, it is how he feels, and I cannot discount his feelings. I'm very nice to him, and he is nice back. And I don't initiate any talks, I'm just here.
My running is going well, and I've also has a business idea for next semester! I am behind with university work, but my tutor is helping me catch up. I'm getting support from women I didn't expect help from, but my old friends are nowhere to be seen. Maybe I need to move on from that too? I'm reading a lot about happiness at the moment, and I'm discovering that even though I have suffered from depression and anxiety so many times in the past, I'm actually a strong and resilient person.
My biggest concern is the kids. The worry about the future if things don't work out is killing me, I wish I knew how to support them. But I can't do anything about that now, I just have to remain optimistic.
"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"
“There is freedom waiting for you, On the breezes of the sky, And you ask "What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, What if you fly?”
Esame, You are far wiser than you think. Go on vacation, relax and enjoy yourself. As for him dumping 10 years worth of complaints on you was uncalled for. If those complaints were such an issue, he should have discussed them w/you at the time they happened. They all rewrite history and come up w/a laundry list of things that they think we've done over the years. It's their way of justifying how they feel and what they are doing. Esame, if any of the complaints are valid, then work on those issues and be sure that any changes that you make are for you and make you happy. Those changes also have to become permanent because if you are only doing them to please him and hopefully sway him back to staying, he'll know it.
You'll catch up on your university work in no time. As for your old friends...well...it just might be time to cut them some slack and meet some new people.
Enjoy your vacation!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I'm not sure if there is basis on his complaints, I don't think there is, but who knows, it is such a long time ago, maybe I was that person (I doubt it though)
Originally Posted By: job
As for your old friends...well...it just might be time to cut them some slack and meet some new people.
That made me smile job. Maybe because subconsciously I knew that's exactly what I need to do. Maybe the distance between my old friends and I is too big to be breached by occasional messaged (initiated by me) and seeing them every couple of years. Sad as it is, I think I should move on.
Me two "newish" friends and my tutor have offered me more help and support over the last few weeks than all of my old friends put together.
Anyway, I better get back to my studying, only two days left to finish everything.
Sorry I have not caught up with everyone's threads, I hope all my lovely DBsting friends on the board are doing well, hugs and kisses to you all xxxxxxx
"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"
“There is freedom waiting for you, On the breezes of the sky, And you ask "What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, What if you fly?”
I seriously doubt all those complaints are valid. Like Job has said ... they need to justify what they're doing and someone (you) has to be the "cause" of it all.
That's not to say there may not be a tiny seed here and there that we can address and improve on, but on the whole, we are not the horrible people they make us out to be.
I think the trial separation will not only give you time to build strength but will also give you the opportunity to let go and let him travel his journey. It's really difficult to just leave them alone and not try to interfere or push or keep up with what their doing, but I think in the long run it's the best thing to do. I didn't see any progress in my sitch until I decided to just leave H alone. It also gave me space and time to work on me. So regardless of how my sitch turns out, that time is beneficial.
Your post about your disappearing friends (I have some of those as well) reminded me of a quote I read some time ago ... Everyone who is in your life is meant to be a part of your journey but not all of them are meant to stay.
I'm glad you're enjoying the running and it sounds like you have a great tutor.
{{{Hugs}}} 2T
Me: 59 and holding H: :53 Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown M: 19 T: 23 BD: 9-23-2013
I agree with you and job, his complains are not necessarily valid, but I think he actually believes they are.
We managed to have a fight on the way to the airport, nothing major but it left me with a "sour taste". I've kept my distance since, not contacting him at all. Actually the only news / photos he gets of the kids are when I send them to our family whatsapp group, mainly for his parents. Other than that, if he calls I pass the phone to the kids. I wish I could say I'm ok with the situation, but I'm not. It is the hardest thing I've ever had to do, I'm among family but feel lonely. And so so hurt.
My family is well, my mum is happy we are here, my grandparents are healthy, and I can spend loads of quality time with my kids, my sister, niece and nephew. It's all lovely really, we are arranging my daughter's christening for the 10th of August, so loads to keep us busy.
And the running is going really well, I go every night, I'm halfway through the "Couch to 5K" programme, and I feel it is really challenging now, but truly rewarding.
"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"
“There is freedom waiting for you, On the breezes of the sky, And you ask "What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, What if you fly?”
Hi Esame, catching up on your thread but don't have too much to offer.
Sorry about your argument, I think they do this before different events to help justify their feelings. That's what it has seems like for me anyway. Try not to let it bother you.
Kudos on the running! I have a hard time staying consistent excersising even though I feel better when I do. It's not easy to take something like that up and stick with it. Enjoy your family time and take care.
So the kids and I have been at my mum's for three weeks now, and in some ways things are going really well, in others not so much. I've spent some time talking to the kids, and some time reading, and I have suddenly come to the realisation that H was not the only person in a fog, so was I. His was a dark place where I was to blame for everything, but mine was a fantasy world where our relationship was loving and good. It seems that this was not the case for a long time, the other day my little boy out of the blue told me that "dad loves you even if he doesn't always show it". I was mortified. How can my 8 year old see that his dad doesn't show me love, while I'm lying to myself about it all?
And is that really the environment I want my children to grow up in?
And then there was the book. The chapter on "Pursuit and Distance between partners" scared me so much. Was I really doing all that? Without even realising?
So where does that leave us? I want time, more time than the few summer weeks, so I'm thinking of asking H to move to the spare room when I go back. But then that means that I have to initiate R conversation and would that be Pursuing again? I don't want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with me, but if he did I would work really hard to give out real a chance. A new relationship though, one with boundaries and individuality and happiness.
"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"
“There is freedom waiting for you, On the breezes of the sky, And you ask "What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, What if you fly?”
Esame, If you are sure you want him to move to the spare bedroom, then suggest it. This particular topic isn't considered pursuing, it's doing something different.
Yes, we can actually be a party to the "dance" and not even realize it.
Its amazing what kids will pick up on and enlighten us with. Although my youngest is no longer a "kid" at 24, she opened my eyes to a somewhat similar thing with pursuing and distancing (that chapter scared me, too!). I spoke to her of my confusion after my financial meeting with H, when he told me I should not try so hard not to call him (as he was leaving). She basically told me that he seems to not like it when he sees that I'm actually doing ok and has a need to "suck me back in" by throwing me some tidbit to show he's still in the game, just to keep his feeling of control. In my case, after hearing that, it has helped me to detach. I'm still sad, but it made me realize that I am and have been being manipulated for quite a while...for whatever reason. Both of my daughters are still in contact with their dad (they should be) but have made me realize that I was in my own fog, just as you mentioned, and they are all for me to move on for now. They probably see more than I do, as he isn't trying to manipulate them (at least, not the way he does with me). Its a tough process for a family to go through...no matter what the age.
And I agree with Job. Ask for what you want. Create those boundaries and remember to know who you are in this process. Then you can find your happiness with yourself and hopefully him, too.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
