...the start of something new??? pt5

[betterm]

I'd rather call her out on it, and be happy with her response of admitting to it, or denying it. If she admits, I would be willing to forgive, but if she denies, it just makes my detachment that much easier. This "safe place" I've been trying to create for her, is out the window, and I start moving forward with the next phase of my life. I'm 34, no kids, problems in M since day one, if there is a time to call and start new, now's the time to do it. Not in 5 years after there's a baby or two and this happens all over again. I don't want to relive this cycle. I'd rather do it, and get it over with. I love her to death, but people learn to love again... And after their limerance fades and he goes back to his marriage (or maybe they stay happy forever, but I think the research shows like 3% of these affairs actually make it a lifetime happiness), and she realizes her actions, we can both be happier (or at least I can be), in the long run. 1/3 of my life has past, I'm not sure I want the other 2/3's of it with someone who thinks it's okay to do what she's doing...

[DDJ]

hey betterm, you still need to take emotion out of your actions. What do you think is best for you? What are the principles that you stand for?

I'm taking a stand because I refuse to live a life with someone who's cheating and lying to me. If people ask me, did I fight for my M and give it my all - I'd say, I fought for myself instead, because that's the only thing that I have control over.

[betterm]

hey betterm, you still need to take emotion out of your actions. What do you think is best for you? What are the principles that you stand for?

I'm taking a stand because I refuse to live a life with someone who's cheating and lying to me. If people ask me, did I fight for my M and give it my all - I'd say, I fought for myself instead, because that's the only thing that I have control over.

this is exactly what I'm thinking though. I'm not wanting to fight for my marriage, I want to fight for what's right for me in my life and who I want to spend the future of it with. The more and more I dig deep into this, the more and more I come to the point of saying "why would you want to fight to keep someone in your life that's accepting of these actions?" (not just the A, but the whole package)

[betterm]

I'm going to ask her... If she thinks it's okay to lie about something like this now, she'll think it's okay to lie about it 5 years from now. And I can't detach with this hanging over my head. Maybe I'm sadistic, but I want to hear the lie.

[DDJ]

Rather not do that. It's coming from emotion. It can't come from a place of hurt and pain, i guess then it also means it can't come from a place of hurt and pain towards yourself either.

Taking the knife and stabbing it deeper into you is not going to help the healing process. You need to remove the knife, which is letting her go. I guess in coconuts case, his W has removed the knife herself, so the healing can start.

I'm struggling today with detachment, as she got me to react yesterday by ignoring me. I never thought it would get to me, but it did. I must learn, I must be consistent. Not for her, but for me.

[doodler]

this is exactly what I'm thinking though. I'm not wanting to fight for my marriage, I want to fight for what's right for me in my life and who I want to spend the future of it with. The more and more I dig deep into this, the more and more I come to the point of saying "why would you want to fight to keep someone in your life that's accepting of these actions?" (not just the A, but the whole package)

betterm,

In my opinion, you're very level-headed in your thinking. I continue to be amazed and surprised by many things the WW says and does. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but just when I think that there surely couldn't be any more big surprises, she throws me for another loop. You eventually realize that you have to protect yourself and don't let the WW drag you into the abyss along with her.

[betterm]

I did not ask her... She came home and I was drinking coffee, reading emails in the kitchen. She could immediately tell I was irritated and asked if she could have a cup of coffee, I said, sure, I made a bunch... But I guess the tone in my voice threw her off, and she said 'nevermind, I'll pass this morning' and went upstairs to shower/get ready.

It was during this time that it struck me... something I've been saying/thinking all along. I know it happened, I know she's already lied about it once (even though the first time I brought it up was in the heat of another battle she was drilling me on), she still denied it then too. I guess I was just thinking if I brought it up now that things have cooled "a little bit", it would give her time to think, and respond differently. But I know that won't happen.

So I went upstairs and told her I just wanted to her to know that I'm not mad "at her", and apologized for being grumpy when she got home. I then went for a walk with the dogs, thought about things a bit while I let my emotions dim down. And when I got back home... (i think I blacked out or something)... I poured her a cup of coffee, took it upstairs, told her she doesn't need to ask me for a cup of coffee, ever, gave her a quick hug, smiled, told her I was heading out and said hope you have a good day today. (around this time I stopped blacking out)... we hadn't hugged in months, outside of the "assets" meetings, which was just an awkward hug/moment.

It definitely caught her off guard. She looked like deer in headlights, (not that this part matters really), but I just walked on out and heading to work, feeling about 300 times more positive about myself than I was last night, and this morning. So great! haha.

This doesn't mean I'm completely abandoning my EA exposure. Like you all said, I need to let her go, grieve, and chart a new path, maybe she's there, maybe she's not, but it'll be my path, nonetheless.

[Natus]

Moments of clarity are great betterm. Just be prepared you will still get the roller coaster waves of emotions through your week / day.

Find your anchor and get through it.

[betterm]

Thank you Natus, And I'm doing all I can - the roller coaster is still very much active... I was reading some non-DB articles from credible places, and they are quite conflicting with the views people seem to have on these forums. Ie, "to stop an affair, the first thing you do is confront it head to head", and if that doesn't work "expose it" (close friends, family, etc).

This seems like a crazy tactic to try to pull off, but I am still highly debating a confrontation with her to make myself feel better about it. Not sure if letter, or face-to-face is the way to go (letter lets her not feel backed into a corner perhaps, but couldn't just be an open-ended letter with no response). If I go face-to-face, I'd say up front that I'm willing to forgive for anything, but I know about OM and I don't care if it's physical or emotional right now, but it either comes to an end now, or the marriage comes to an end now.

I'm sure, at the time, she's going to jump all over that second option, but really, I'm already to the point where I'm accepting the marriage is on it's last days (ticking time bomb), and confronting her on this is one way to say, "I know why you're so conflicted about this marriage, and I'm understanding of why these things happen. I know I created the void you needed to fill. But this is your chance to get it off your chest and we can either move on with or without each other."

OM is married too, and while I won't be exposing immediately, nor will I threaten to expose immediately, but if she continues to deny, I do plan on exposing this to anyone with any relative concern for what happened, ie. friends, family, employer (they work together) - this is information coming from Dr. Willard Harley's book 'Surviving Affair', marriagebuilds<dot>com.

[EDF]

Just wanted to chime in since I recently was debating over the same decision: whether to confront WW and let her know that I knew about the Affair.

It's been a couple weeks since I confronted her. I honestly don't know if confronting her was the "right" decision from a standpoint of what gives us the best chance to reconcile, but I think it was the right decision for me from the standpoint of standing up for myself and peeling back the curtain on the activities she thought she was getting away with.

A few things I will highlight:
- I tried to get her to admit the A a couple times previously, stating strongly that I saw the signs and I knew she was having an A, highlighting things that didn't add up, etc... and she stuck to the "just friends" line religiously.
- She didn't admit to the A until I revealed I had proof. Don't expect a confession from her unless you have proof; especially since OM is married.
- On recommendation of my coach, I did not ask if she was having an affair... I simply stated that I knew she was having an affair, stayed vague about my sources but gave a couple brief details to make it clear I really did know. She ended up admitting it afterwards, with the typical script bullshit trying to downplay things, blame me for snooping, etc.
- She didn't ask if I was going to confront OM or OM's wife or tell anyone else, but if she had I was going to keep it vague and non-committal e.g. "I haven't really given that much thought"

Since confronting her, the last couple weeks have been rough. Less conversation initiated by her. Almost zero physical contact. I have been working through it, but it's been very hard to draw the line between being aloof and moving forward, without coming across as ignoring her or seeming pissed all the time. I feel like I'm getting it dialed in a bit more now, but it's tough.

I would recommend face-to-face if you confront. I had to practice what I planned to say a bunch of times so that I could deliver it while staying calm, looking her in the eyes, and not crying. Ultimately I had to remove a couple lines altogether that kept making me emotional.

I ended with something like this: "And even though I'm focused on improving myself right now, know that I will *not* be a doormat and I won't just be here in limbo forever; if at some point you decide to choose me, you will have to fight hard to win me back.

If you want to vent or talk about anything at some point, I'm willing to listen.

But this is all I have to say right now."

I'm sure things could've been handled/phrased better, and it's far too soon to know whether confronting improved or scuttled whatever chance we may have to reconcile, but just wanted to share my experiences since I went through it so recently.

Best of luck with whatever you choose, and like with everything else just make sure you're doing it for yourself as opposed to trying to get some specific reaction out of WW.