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#2681651 05/29/16 06:43 PM
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Old thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2676783&page=1

Not a whole lot to say except that I'm very, very angry.

Not sleeping or eating well. Feel like I'm living an episode of Dateline or 20/20.

More later.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2681656 05/29/16 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ralph88
I don't think they suffer that much, even if they do eventually regret. My WW STBXW made weird statements to self medicate like "if we ever get back together" writhing weeks of S. I think they see it as over as soon as they BD, so it's full steam ahead with the new... Or, I can always go back to LBS if I change my mind.. My WW still blames me for everything that didn't work in her eyes, so that has to be easy to leave...


WH kept talking about how we could maybe remarry down the road - how he knew lots of people who had done that. confused

I always wondered why he said that, but that's a great point - to self-medicate. Brilliant.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2681662 05/29/16 07:32 PM
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Painter, my H said the same thing about remarrying later on. He couldn't believe it when I told him no way, and once the D was done, so were we. I think it's pretty standard WW stuff. It's a safety net to help them actually go through with the D, because they think you will take them back if they aren't happy with their choices. After I convinced my H that would not be an option, he backed off on the D altogether.


Me: 43, Him: 40
Married: 21 years

annab74 #2681664 05/29/16 07:46 PM
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Funny, I think XW said the bit about getting back together in 5 year's time as well...she'd also say we could never be together again because we couldn't work for each other...sometimes in the same evening, or almost the same sentence.

As I said, I hope to never understand it.

And Painter, yes, I reread my old post. I was mixing up which post you were replying to.

Clearly in light of the information we've received you have to walk away and never look back. My old post was based on how you were talking at the time and within the information I had to work with off what you were posting.

I DB'd for months while my XW went through a number of guys without my knowledge. I'll never regret it. Her decisions are hers. My decisions are mine. I'll never regret making appropriate decisions just because she didn't. If that means I was played, well, that's the risk of trusting someone.

Now, whether I'll ever trust again is another topic. The problem there is that most people don't even think a trust was betrayed. How can you trust someone that doesn't think betraying you was wrong? The fact that she could post this crap on FB and not be unfriended by everyone and shunned just shows that most people aren't trustworthy because they think cheating and walking away is situationally appropriate.

I'm glad you're open about your anger. Anger is a healthy reaction as you know. It is there to give you the strength to do what you need to do. Feelings follow actions. While there's nothing you can do to feel better today, the anger can fuel you to continue to rebuild your life so someday you can feel something else.

In the meantime let me remind you to try to find something to appreciate. It's the only thing that's gotten me through, and as I've learned to be more appreciative, I've been happier than ever before, despite my wounds.

You know all of this, but since you know all of this you also know that me rambling is how I show support. Hang tough Painter, and keep walking the high road.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues126 #2681670 05/29/16 08:28 PM
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Zeus, I enjoy reading your rambling support for Painter.

Painter, I also think that your being angry at this stage is very healthy and empowering. Use every bit of that productive white anger to lift yourself up and move forward.

I haven't really been angry for more than a few hours since H walked, and I think that is probably a deficiency in me somehow. Even as angry as I was yesterday, it's now passed for the most part, and I just think he's pathetic.

It's just a long series of self-medication -illegal street drugs, an affair, the excitement of deceit and secrets, going to raves, pretending to be younger and going to 20s and 30s MeetUp groups, the excitement of brand new friends that know nothing about his past (and who he could therefore tell he was already divorced or separated), binge drinking, couch surfing. Truly sad and pathetic behavior in an so-called adult.

I wish you a good night's sleep, Painter. I have to say that hydroxyzine bought me 7 hours of sleep last night. I was pleased. DOn't forget that your anxiety meds are also good for sleep. My prescription actually says to take them for sleep!

(((((Painter)))))


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
annab74 #2681672 05/29/16 08:55 PM
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Anna, I said the same thing to WH. I was shocked, and told him that if we split, I would probably never want to talk to him again. He sort of whined, 'But I thought we would be friends!' I looked at him incredulously and replied, 'Why on earth would I want to be friends with someone who treated me like this?' It seemed the coin dropped then. He still came back to it later, though. That he might move up here if I got a good job, so he could work less.

Zues, I enjoy your ramblings. wink
I think the reason OW hasn't had any negative reactions is that she has not shared with anyone the origin of the relationship. She is very selective with what she posts on her FB page, this is the most private she has ever been. Apart from that, it's all selfies with duckface (she's 61 going on 16...), selfies with different hair and makeup, pictures of her cellulite thighs and under-eye bags before and after treatments, her manicures, and food recipes. It's actually an astoundingly vapid page that reflects a completely superficial and uninteresting person. A perfect fit for someone who doesn't want a partner with independent opinions.

I don't regret anything I've done, either. I know I gave it my all and still respect and honor my M. That's about me and not about WH.

And I do appreciate many things. Right now, I am in awe of all my lovely friends - it seems I have many more than I knew! - who are rallying around me. I'm also grateful every day for my amazing son who is so caring and loving and takes care of me like I'm an invalid. I keep telling him to be careful because he's giving me no reason to want to move out. grin

I'm also thrilled to have the next three days off. I just hope I get to sleep so I can focus on doing something.

I wonder how many of the waywards who say the same thing about potentially getting back together. I guess they say it to comfort themselves.

Phoebe, I hope you get some anger soon! Do you think your H is going through a MLC? It sort of sounds like it to me. Desperate to be young again.

I also feel that WH is pathetic and a sad figure - and I actually feel sorry for him because he in many ways is gullible and easily manipulated himself. I really think OW is bad news for him. But he will most likely never learn because he's not interested in learning.

But I'm still furious about the way he has treated me - because I know how he can look when he gets away with something he thinks is clever, the smirk on his face. And the disregard for my feelings.

I have taken my medication for sleep several nights in a row, but still only get a few hours. I hope to do better tonight.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2681706 05/30/16 01:34 AM
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Best wishes. Did you find something to appreciate?


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
Painter #2681736 05/30/16 06:03 AM
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Hi painter,

Just a pop in to support you.

Have you reviewed Vanillas threads on anger?
Great stuff and may be worth a read for you as you are in that stage.

Keep your chin up. You are a great person and a fool leaving does not change that.


Me 46 Former W 46
D19 D7
BD Feb 2016
WAW moves out 4/16/16
D final 6/1/2017

It's time for me to start changin' the way I look at the world......and at myself. ~James Howlett aka Wolverine
roist #2681771 05/30/16 09:14 AM
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Hi Roist,

I slept well and got enough hours. I did wake up once but went right back to sleep, and that's usually the challenge.

In addition to the things I mentioned above that I appreciate, we had a fantastic full rainbow and part of a second one across the sky when I left work yesterday!


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
SH_ #2681849 05/30/16 04:19 PM
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So an update from Crazytown:

I e-mailed yesterday with WH about wanting the rest of my stuff out of there and someone else to have the key to my storage, and splitting joint bank accounts (we both bank elsewhere now but do some shared stuff). He said he was sorry I felt that I couldn't trust him. (He has never been seriously dishonest about anything but OW. As far as I know.)
I said after seeing the ring, I felt there was nothing left to talk about and I wanted to minimize interaction.

He reacted with surprise and insistence that he had not bought her any ring, that I had full control of all our funds (which is right). I sent him screenshots of her ring pictures and posts, and of her saying to friends they would get married this year, and of the wedding dresses. I got a brief "WTF?!" back.

The next morning, he e-mailed me that he had never bought her a ring or known about these posts (he's not on FB), and that he had been completely taken aback by this, and he actually said thanks for letting him know.

When he asked (last night, I assume), she said that she had bought the ring, and he assumes it's in a box somewhere since she's not wearing it. So he didn't get to actually see it. I suspect she doesn't even have it... She is supposed to be broke, and with credit card debt. That was a 2k ring, I guarantee (could of course explain the cc debt).

He said he was shocked and had some processing and major thinking to do.

This would be the first time he didn't back down when confronted with evidence. It could of course be because this is so big he knows it could have ramifications. But he sounded very serious.

He also said he had told SD (on my request) that she did not have to hide anything from me, that she was not to keep his secrets. I e-mailed her and told her what had gone down and asked her to support her dad if he is in a pickle.

I am more than a little creeped out by this woman if it is like WH says. The text messages she sent me last year were very disconnected from reality - like someone who thinks that if they just say something, it is real. Maybe she read too much Power of Intent.

I have dealt with crazy before, WH's ex-wife was diagnosed with a major personality disorder and was really scary. Very abusive to the children. Narcissists are actually often victims of scammers and manipulative people, their weakness is their ego and that they always expect something good coming to them (because they think they deserve it just for being who they are).

I'm actually feeling much better for myself, though. I have spent the day with my son, we took the dog and went for a walk in a nice park where all the dogs can run free (she's exhausted now!), and then we grilled burgers for dinner and ate on the deck. The weather is gorgeous. I seem to be sleeping okay and eating more normally again.

WH has texted a lot today - some business, some just chatting. I sent him a photo of our dinner on the deck. It's raining where he is, so he's cooped up inside with Crazy Suzy Homewrecker. (Insert creepy suspence music from your favorite horror movie.)

Am I very bad to get just a little bit if amusement out of this? whistle If it got serious, I would of course not find it funny... but right now, I take a little satisfaction in the consequences that are hitting him right between the eyes...


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2681861 05/30/16 06:04 PM
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Painter,

I am happy you are able to have a little fun with this. It put a smile on my face. Hang in there. I can only imagine how difficult this is for you. It sounds like he is respecting you a little more but his actions are still deplorable.

Sleep well!

(((Painter)))


H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6
S-9,8,8,6,4
S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15
EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16
PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16
XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16
Finally moving forward...
J5K #2681869 05/30/16 07:32 PM
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Ouch. I got my hand on the burner again. One of my friends found some stuff on OW's FB-page and shared it with me, and I just saw it. It was dated mid-February and about how she has found her special person (not those words but the meaning). It took the wind completely out of my sails, because it fits the timeline. My heart hurts and my stomach is in a knot. I can tell I'm close to tears. I was so relaxed and had such a good day - but I guess it hinged on me believing that WH now had concerns about OW.

Nothing good is coming from contact with WH or finding out more about OW. I don't even know if it's worth the legal aspects. I just get so outraged at WH's behavior that I end up confronting him... I'm a very fair person and it's hard for me to get that someone can be so selfish and inconsiderate. Moving her into the house so quickly really made this 100 times worse than it had to be.

Took a pill so I wouldn't go into a tailspin.

I would like to post more in other (new) posters' threads, but it's so hard to read about the pain they are going through... it's so raw in me and now I have no hope or encouragement to offer for new posters going into DBing. I'm glad I did it for myself, but I'm not fit to give anyone hope about saving their M.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2681870 05/30/16 07:49 PM
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Ouch. If it doesn't help you, and actually causes you more pain, then it's probably not worth even looking.

I can absolutely relate to your being unable to post on brand new people's threads. I'm right there with you. I remember when I first joined that I could barely read anyone's threads because I was in so much pain myself that I just felt worse knowing how many other people were also in pain. I'm still struggling enough that I don't feel qualified to say much to the true newcomers. I don't know how to offer much comfort.

I think that you should just do what feels right for you. You have enough to deal with right now without immersing yourself in more.

I'm sorry that you're having a setback with the latest information assault because the previous update sounded like you were feeling sassy again. I was liking that. Take your meds and you'll have your sass back soon.

Sleep well, lovely Painter.


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
Phoebe #2681887 05/30/16 10:07 PM
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Painter, I'd really caution you to be careful about interacting with H right now.

You have every right to be angry. Right now that anger could make things more difficult for yourself.

STBXH is being inappropriate, and he has destroyed your life. That said, he sounds like he is being reasonable in the sense of not hiding assets, draining accounts, or hurting the kids to punish you, or worse.

Maybe we take that for granted. We just think no one could ever sink so low. But we also thought no one could ever sink so low as to move in with someone else while legally married for 20 years.

My point is that it could be much, much worse. I'm not trying to get you to find a 'bright side'. I just don't want to see you confront, punish, or spew at WAH. Not only does this just justify in his mind why he 'had to leave', but you are laying the groundwork for the divorce to just get nastier if he decides he can't reason with you or play nice. I don't want your life negatively impacted because you want to blow off steam, that is all.

Agreed that you should not be looking at FB, and you should tell your friends you don't want to know anymore. You know what's out there now. If you continue to look you are choosing to make yourself upset.

Create as much emotional distance as you can from the situation, blow off all the steam you want here, but please keep the moral high ground and do everything you can to prevent from escalating a horrible situation.

Sorry that's not very helpful tonight, I do care painter, just can't do anything to change the harshness of this reality.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues126 #2681898 05/31/16 12:50 AM
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Hi Painter, I would agree with Zues and operate on the basis that OW is truly not worthy of your valuable attention. Who cares what she posts on FB - she may have been bought a ring, or she may be deluded. None of that really matters.

I work on the basis that the only thing that would lead me to pause and review would be XH approaching me in an honest and genuine way to see if I would be willing to consider possible R. If he did, I would want to know some details - until or unless it reads like sticking pins into sensitive places.

I would leave him and her be....if the two of them want to be together so be it...and time will tell how that unfolds.

Focus on you, look after you, turn back to your own life (apart from business interactions) and take it from there I say.

Take care my friend xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Sotto #2682045 05/31/16 10:35 AM
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I agree that I should go to NC. The worst possible that has happened, happened. There's nothing more that could really happen now to hurt me more, I think.

I have told H how disrespectful I thought he has been to our M, how he added so much pain to an already difficult process by moving her right in, how he protected himself from pain by starting a new R before ending his M and instead just dumped all that extra pain onto me, and that I need clarity and closure. I want the whole truth that makes sense, and a really, really big apology.
But I'll never get that.

Anyway, working from home today and need to get started. Lots to catch up on and I probably should have some coffee first so I can think better.

Counseling appt tonight, then I'm going to see if I can catch a meeting for adult children of alcholics right afterwards. Time may be tight, though. I have a feeling it could be useful, I met someone who told me she goes to them.

I feel so homeless... I sort of regret leaving. He could have left and I could have been in my home still. On the other hand, I am much removed from the drama that would otherwise have been going on. He would have had so much stuff left at the house and I would probably have had to meet her at some point. But I am disgusted that she is in my house.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2682186 05/31/16 09:57 PM
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What an interesting evening. I had an hour with my counselor, then drove straight to a 2-hour meeting for adult children of alcoholics. My IC wondered if it could be a little much for me to deal with in the middle of all the M upheaval, but when she realized I wanted to work on relationship patterns and what happened in the M with WH, and not so much my alcoholic parent (already been through a lot of that process).

Both WH and I had an alcoholic parent. None of us were victims of violence, but obviously the dysfunction that comes with alcoholism. Last ex-W had an alcoholic father (and a mentally ill mother). OW had an alcoholic father (who she seemingly adored) and drinks herself, from what WH has told me. He also likes to drink - more than I enjoyed. I don't know about the three earlier wives, but I'd be curious to know.

So lots of material there to think about. It was incredibly interesting to hear the stories around the table and I had many aha-moments as people were talking. I want to go back next week and see where this goes.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2682195 05/31/16 11:33 PM
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That sounds like a very interesting and germaine subject to explore. Follow that trail and see where it leads you.

It's super late, so I'm just popping in to say hello and wish you a sound nights sleep. So glad you're on the upswing again.

(((Painter)))


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
Phoebe #2682203 05/31/16 11:48 PM
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Thanks, Phoebe, I hope you get some sleep soon, too. I'm still up - have been crying again. Wrote a 'why oh why' e-mail to H that I didn't send but saved to drafts with many others.

Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day. I'm on a rapid rollercoaster of emotions these days, it seems.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2682226 06/01/16 02:05 AM
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It is good to write those emails to H but you are right not to send them. I think that down the line you would regret it.

All your interactions should be from a place of strength. Showing hurt and attachment will show you as being weak and may make you feel weak for having done so.

This is not a tactic to be more attractive to H (though it is more attractive than falling apart), but more so for you to hold your head up and not REact to his shiitt. Don't give him any reaction.

Furthermore if there was any doubt that you did the wrong thing by moving out, you know you were right. Protect yourself.

You are not weak. You have gone through a lot and you are hurting.TThis makes you human, not weak.

Google excel at life. There is some great stuff there to read or listen to.

Treat yourself to something TODAY.Buy yourself a littlepleasure if you can or just make time for a little pleasure.

Best wishes


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2682334 06/01/16 10:38 AM
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Roist, I need a new lipstick. smile I will go shop for one today.

Didn't sleep until 3:30 and I have so much work to do... crazy Coffee needs to kick in!


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2682372 06/01/16 01:21 PM
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I'm sorry that the roller coaster is heading downward again. It's the worst ride. ever.

I was right there awake with you last night. Actually at 3:30 am I was showering, of all the ridiculous things to be doing at that hour. I couldn't sleep and kept tossing and turning. Every time I moved, I was reminded of how sticky I felt because it was a hot humid day and I went for both a hike and a walk. I should have just showered before bed, but by 3:30 I had had it! I made it extra hot to help with sleep afterward, and you know what??? I think I was asleep by 4!

Of course I also woke up like a switch at 8 am, so it was a meager night's sleep. One the other hand, I got those 4 hours without any meds, so...

If lipstick makes you happy, Painter,then buy 10!!!

Hope it's a better evening.


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
Phoebe #2682452 06/01/16 08:56 PM
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Yup, waking up between 7 and 8 regardless how late it gets. I took a pill so at least I didn't wake up 4 times gasping while being ambushed by thoughts about H and OW. Going to bed early tonight.

I googled some today - 'trauma and infidelity' and found some really interesting articles that stated you can actually get PTSD from being cheated on/abandoned, and that it was the closest thing to the death of a child. Made me feel more validated about feeling so upset and rattled and keep getting attacked by the pain. Phoebe, you might find it interesting.

Also had a long phone chat with a friend who is still trying to move on from her D 5 years ago. She really was so invested in that R and doesn't have a real passion for herself, her identity was completely in that M.

I got a bit of work done today - not as much as I would have liked, but I got a pile of mail off my desk and did some personal business, too. And shopped for my new lipstick (replaced one that was empty). Got a great recommendation for a shop where they can fix my car, so have an appointment for a diagnostic next week.

Going to have to try to get some work done tomorrow morning before I go to work, as well. It's a very busy time for my home office contracting job, so tricky to try to start two new jobs at the same time. And I'm sooooo tired.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
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When I see my signature, my stomach does a flip. How did this happen to me? It feels like a bad dream, a crazy story.

I need to remember that I was unhappy in my M a lot. And that I tried hard for many years to make it work, and WH didn't want to participate. I asked him to go to MC with me for years and he refused. I still went, on and off.

He just isn't able to do the work. His solution is to move on to yet another partner. It's not my solution but I got to accept that he has. He did it in an extremely hurtful manner and that's all on him.

I also think he's not healthy emotionally. Anger over me having a fulfilling job because it took my attention away from him. Jealousy of the pets because I loved on them and took care of them. Not allowing me to feel upset over his rages (let it go, it's over).

Now he has someone he thinks he can control completely, who only thinks about him, who agrees with him in everything, who puts his wellbeing and interest first and has no needs of her own. Good for him!

6 years ago, before OW, he was taking me to the dentist. I have severe anxiety due to childhood experiences. I had taken tranquilizers and was going to be sedated for the procedure. He spent the entire drive there raging at me for something I can't even remember. I begged him to stop yelling, reminded him that I had taken meds and was trying to stay calm. He just wouldn't or couldn't stop.

I know that eventually, I stopped showing response to his rages. I still reacted internally, but I developed this indifference on the outside to protect myself. He then started complaining about how I didn't show much emotion. I would strive to stay very calm and rational when he raged, and avoid contradicting him. The hardest thing was when he accused me of something that I felt was very unfair. That could get to me and make me indignant.

Let OW have the rages. They won't go away with me. They were there with exW and he also rages with the kids, so I know it's not me.

My dog hasn't run away and hid once since we left. She used to run upstairs and hide when he started, even if she was laying on my lap at the time.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2682569 06/02/16 06:30 AM
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Hi Painter,

I just wrote a post attempting to rationalize why you should not suffer the loss for a man who never really existed and was deceitful and then I reread what you wrote and deleted it...

Your feelings are your feelings and you don't need to justify or validate them or rationalize them. Maybe just take the time to feel them and with time just make sure they don't interfere with what you wish for out of life.


I'm really sorry. This is a hard thing to cope with.

Hugs

J


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2682583 06/02/16 07:24 AM
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Juju, I appreciate it.

It's hard because that wasn't all he was, you know? He was also loving in his own way, proud of me, willing to listen, helpful (although not so much to me as to strangers), and a very hard worker. And we had a really strong connection on several levels. People commented on how much we talked to each other.

But we disagreed a lot and he had no tolerance for disagreement. To me, disagreement is expanding - to him, it's an existential threat. And a rebellion he needs to strike down.

And I pushed for something he just couldn't give or didn't know how to. He just wouldn't share his feelings (except the angry ones). Maybe I'm just asking for too much from a R.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
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Had a bad phone convo with H today. We had to discuss some finances. He got furious at a request I made (catching up on alimony payments) because he needs cash. As usual, he has overspent. Also, the reality of separation is hitting him. He is struggling to pay for everything. He took it all out on me.

OW was in the background part of the time and overheard him ranting at me. I was calm on my end. It was an eerie flashback to 10-15 years ago, when he was ranting and raging at Ex on the phone while I was listening.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2683024 06/03/16 07:25 PM
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That is eerie. It's interesting how people try to replace spouses. To me it would be like if someone lost their newborn baby to some disease, so they bundled up some rags inside of a pillow case, drew a face on with a magic marker, and started carrying it around with them and called it their 'baby'. Trying to replace your spouse with some other person is just as freak show in my book.

Say, one thing that works for me is email. I don't know that I've spoken with XW in over 18 months. Maybe an 'ok' here and there, or a 'yes, I've got the red homework folder'. But that's honestly the most I've spoken to her. Other than that I use email. We email a couple of times a month for kid reasons.

Email is great because I can use the minimum number of words needed, weed out any emotion or agenda beyond the task at hand, and as a result I am so far removed from XW I am practically living in a different universe. Which is PERFECT for me. I feel very detached, very safe, and very unencumbered by whatever the weather is like in her universe.

Is it possible you could do email and occasional text only?


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues126 #2683027 06/03/16 07:55 PM
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Zues, we mostly e-mail and text, but H sometimes ignores them or doesn't answer in more than a few words, and never reads anything past the first paragraph I write. He is happy to just leave stuff undone - always been that way.

This will not last - we don't have children that we need to coparent, so once this year is over, I expect no further communication.

I didn't expect him to go off at the deep end like he did today. He is definitely struggling financially. I took care of the finances and he always spent whatever he liked regardless whatever budget I set up. Now he'll blame me for being broke, I'm sure. He couldn't understand that I have any expenses. I explained that I had to buy some new office equipment for my contracting business that I do from home, since I left all of ours behind - and he went into a fit about how much I had paid.

I said that this was why I felt it was such a bad idea to separate at a time where we were just improving so much financially. He said 'it wasn't worth it'. I assume he meant that it wasn't worth a financially safe future to stay married to me.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2683029 06/03/16 08:05 PM
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Got it. I envy your ability to cut ties altogether in the not too distant future. Although it's all pretty bad.

For some reason it reminds me of the Monty Python movie Life Of Brian, where Brian is going to be crucified and the old guy in the dungeon is jealous, 'you lucky bastard, I wish I got crucifixion', that whole stick. (Crucifixion? No, freedom. Just kidding, I'm crucifixion really. Ha ha, first door on the left, one cross each...guess you had to see it)

As for spew, I guess exes are kind of like traffic or internet forums (other than DB), where it seems to bring out their worst. I never quite got it. I mean, I have long since stopped being interested in R, yet I still try hard to be professional. I never quite understood why exes had to get so nasty. I am really challenging myself and I just can't remember behaving that way.

Oh well. Just another mystery of life. I'll let you solve it for me and I'll follow your lead. Hang in.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Painter #2683030 06/03/16 08:26 PM
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Honestly this is the price of being passive concerning affairs. That allows them to take root and kills the marriage probably 99% of the time. It's a good lesson. You have to crush affairs as soon as they're discovered. Expose to the world and get them ended. People who do that have a much higher rate of staying married.



The future is as bright as you demand it be.
Zues126 #2683032 06/03/16 09:06 PM
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He's no different from when we were first married... It's the same spewing and anger as I have endured from day 1. I remember thinking he was stuck in the way he communicated with Ex, and saying several times, "Hey H, I'm not Ex - we don't have to interact this way. You and I can talk about stuff without yelling." He looked at me like I had two heads. It's just how he does things, it seems.

I can get sarcastic, but I try to stay calm and rational as much as possible.

I've seen Life of Brian - I know the scene you mean. Yes, it all seems surreal!


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
TxHubby #2683059 06/04/16 02:56 AM
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I'm not sure how exactly you think I should have exposed it, or who to...Most of our family and friends knew, but OW lived in another state.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2683173 06/04/16 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: Painter
I'm not sure how exactly you think I should have exposed it, or who to...Most of our family and friends knew, but OW lived in another state.


Exposure is just one piece of crushing affairs. It's a multi-phase approach and there are no rules. You get it killed as quickly as possible and then either work through it or divorce. It's impossible to work on a marriage if there are more than two people in it.

Honestly, in your case, however, I think the way he interacted with his ex, and now you, are a good indicator of a major character flaw with him. It seems he's repeating unhealthy and cruel patterns.

Out of curiosity, did you and he meet before he was divorced from his ex?



The future is as bright as you demand it be.
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It's been a good day. Slept 8 hours, had a productive day at work, lovely lunch outside at a restaurant with my son, and haven't cried once so far (fingers crossed).


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2683227 06/05/16 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: Painter
It's been a good day. Slept 8 hours, had a productive day at work, lovely lunch outside at a restaurant with my son, and haven't cried once so far (fingers crossed).


This is great to hear painter. Stay present in the moment and absorb the calm, comfort and peace and take it one day at a time. You deserve it and this is proof that you are healing and getting stronger.

Have a wonderful next 24 hours and then another and another......


Me 46 Former W 46
D19 D7
BD Feb 2016
WAW moves out 4/16/16
D final 6/1/2017

It's time for me to start changin' the way I look at the world......and at myself. ~James Howlett aka Wolverine
TxHubby #2683249 06/05/16 06:29 AM
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TX, I did what I could to crush it and also take the excitement out of it. Many people knew, I was open about it, but also too forgiving.

Strangely, your post only now appeared and shows as the latest one in the thread...

Yes, this is a more extreme repeat of our story. When I met H, we were first long-distance friends (e-mail), and he said he was already separated because his W had an A and mental problems, but still shared the house due to finances and kids. We eventually became more than friends but only saw each other a few times because of the distance. Then I started getting concerned about the lack of movement towards a D and that he was lying, so I ended it. After several months of NC, I talked to him and he had moved out right after I broke it off. It became a long-distance R again and we decided that I would move to the US. I refused to come until his D was final (12 months from S).

I realize now that he was probably lying about many things (although stepkids have confirmed that M was high conflict and Ex was abusive, that Ex dated alleged A partner after the split - he left his wife for her and then she dumped him - and that they were relieved when their parents decided to split) and I was naive. It was my first M and I wish I could turn back time and let the older, wiser me guide me.

H lied to me repeatedly through the years about the A being over.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2683268 06/05/16 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted By: Painter
TX, I did what I could to crush it and also take the excitement out of it. Many people knew, I was open about it, but also too forgiving.

Strangely, your post only now appeared and shows as the latest one in the thread...

Yes, this is a more extreme repeat of our story. When I met H, we were first long-distance friends (e-mail), and he said he was already separated because his W had an A and mental problems, but still shared the house due to finances and kids. We eventually became more than friends but only saw each other a few times because of the distance. Then I started getting concerned about the lack of movement towards a D and that he was lying, so I ended it. After several months of NC, I talked to him and he had moved out right after I broke it off. It became a long-distance R again and we decided that I would move to the US. I refused to come until his D was final (12 months from S).

I realize now that he was probably lying about many things (although stepkids have confirmed that M was high conflict and Ex was abusive, that Ex dated alleged A partner after the split - he left his wife for her and then she dumped him - and that they were relieved when their parents decided to split) and I was naive. It was my first M and I wish I could turn back time and let the older, wiser me guide me.

H lied to me repeatedly through the years about the A being over.


If he was willing to start something with you while he was still married that should have been a huge red flag to you as to his character. What he has been doing to you is just him being himself. He's done it before, he'll do it again. If you want to be healthy I recommend you get as far away from him as you can. Cheating and lying is a big part of who he is.



The future is as bright as you demand it be.
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I should add to the previous post that H's ex-W actually was and is mentally ill - she has a serious personality disorder and has no contact with either of her children still. She is scary and abusive in a really, really serious way. So he didn't lie about that.

It's been a good day. I worked, then went swimming and had a nice evening with my son. I have several days off coming up - although they will involve my second job (or first, depending on how I count them?) and several interesting classes. A 2-day orientation class for an organization I'll be volunteering for, and the first of a series of evening art classes. Tuesday night there's another ACA meeting.

Had some e-mails back and forth with WH today that just confirmed he is completely stuck in his belief that I am mainly responsible for the demise of the M and he just couldn't help doing what he did. He totally twisted around something I had validated to mean something it didn't mean at all - that he gave everything he had in the M but it wasn't reciprocated.

What I actually said, was that when we first married, he shared everything he had with me and that I hoped I didn't make him feel that it wasn't good enough, because that was not true - but that I was afraid I had not been appreciative enough of that or properly understood his pride in what he shared. He really appreciated what I said at the time - until he threw it in my face later in the same conversation and now, a few days later, has twisted it into something completely different.

He says he's very sad about the M ending.

These exchanges reassure me that there is nothing left to salvage here. We are living in different worlds.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
TxHubby #2683450 06/06/16 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted By: TxHubby

If he was willing to start something with you while he was still married that should have been a huge red flag to you as to his character. What he has been doing to you is just him being himself. He's done it before, he'll do it again. If you want to be healthy I recommend you get as far away from him as you can. Cheating and lying is a big part of who he is.


Your post just showed up between my last two... strange lag going on.

At first, we were merely friends - mutual support in difficult times. I wanted nothing more. He was very convincing about them being separated in-house - but I got concerned and broke off contact because I didn't like what was going on. My instincts were probably spot on, as they also have been for the last several years, but I didn't listen to them as I should have.

The fact that he moved out while we were not in contact for 3 months convinced me that his M was over independently of me. I did not want to live with him until he was D, and that we disagreed on. He didn't see the need too wait, that was all my boundary.

He was in a difficult situation with a mentally ill wife and was concerned about leaving the children in her care. I felt a lot of sympathy and compassion for him. He went there after work every day to feed the children dinner and clean up the house because his wife was mostly sleeping during the day. My stepdaughter has told me how she had to climb up on counters to search for breakfast for herself and her younger sibling because their mother didn't feed them.

So it was a heartbreaking situation with more shades of gray than black and white, but also red flags I should have taken seriously. He appealed to the rescuer and fixer in me, which is what I'm working on in ACA.

It's hard to see an unfamiliar pattern when it's ahead of you - I am much wiser in retrospect!

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Hi, Painter! I'm still just trying to get caught up, but I saw that you had a good day recently and I am glad for you. A day without tears is progress.

It's strange how we can feel like we're doing better, and then some new bit of information will kick us back into full on grieving mode. Right there with you lately.

I hope today has been a good one and that you are able to get a good nights sleep.


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
Phoebe #2683973 06/07/16 04:27 PM
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Another work from home day. Getting things done and feel less distracted and scatterbrained than before.

Going to an ACA meeting soon (Adult Children of Alcholics). Last week was interesting so I'm looking forward to it.

Talked to WH today. I had said something about his 'honeymoon' with OW in an e-mail, and he said he wanted to let me know it was no such thing. He is very conflicted, very concerned about some things related to OW, and feels numb. He's not happy, he just feels numb.

I replied that it was a relief to hear - because that's what I would expect someone in his situation to feel, it sounded more normal than anything else from him in a while. That this is why it's not considered a very wise thing to do, move in a new woman 3 weeks after your wife of 15 years moves out.

He claims that he did not see her from November 2014 until she moved in. It sounds crazy. I hope he can get rid of her if he wants.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2683992 06/07/16 06:29 PM
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Hi Miss Painter. I'm glad that you have found a meeting group that helps you. It's good to be seeing new people, particularly those with an understanding of what you have experienced.

That does seem rather hard to believe that you H didn't see OW for all that time and then she suddenly just moves in. Where does this fall in the believe nothing they say spectrum?

I'm not sure he is worthy of your sympathy, but you're a good person for still being able to be empathetic toward him after everything that has happened.

I hope that you are able to sleep well tonight, and that tomorrow continues to bring you peace and progress.

(((Painter)))


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
Phoebe #2684018 06/07/16 10:07 PM
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A difficult evening. The meeting was intense, and we were several who cried while sharing our stories or listening to others. But the connection is very special - we recognize so much in each other.

Then I texted with my stepdaughter, who told me that she thought OW was really very nice and that WH seemed happy and relaxed. A complete 180 from being so upset about her dad's behavior and lying. Turns out she wasn't really offended in principle, just felt protective of me. Not really what I needed to hear right now. I think I'm going to have to keep some distance to her as well, which is going to be even more painful. I feel so very, very lonely. I know I am lucky to have my son, but sometimes the pain is greater than the gratitude.

I should try to get some sleep, supposed to go to class tomorrow morning. I don't know if I'll be up to it, honestly.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2684232 06/08/16 02:28 PM
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Slept 2.5 hours. Had Starbucks coffee and went to class. Left a little early and still not tired. Have a creative class from 7-10 tonight. shocked I guess I'll pick up another Starbucks...

The triggers are everywhere! At the class, there was a slide with centuries' old marriage records. My stomach clenched and I started tearing up.

I also quit my job today. I'm not fit to be around people, I need to give myself a month of 'sick leave' to recover. I'm going to do a scheduled shift on Friday and that's it. My boss got sort of curt even though I had let her know I was considering it. I explained that with no sleep and frequent crying fits, I'm just not fit to work around people right now.

I'm going to give myself a month to get started on a translation project I have been wanting to do for years. We'll see how I do. In a month, I'll start applying for jobs, unless my practice grows and I get more hours and a pay raise from my other employer (they are discussing it).


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2684233 06/08/16 02:33 PM
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Hi painter sorry to hear about your job but I can relate to not being able to face people.
I required 3 months off work when my W decided M was "done" - toughest time ever, however getting back to some form of work for the interaction and daily routine has helped me immensely.
Be wary of the 1 month dragging on and becoming 2 - my return to work was carefully managed and much tougher than I'd ever have anticipated.
Have a good evening smile


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2684314 06/08/16 09:58 PM
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Hi srt, I agree that social interaction is crucial.

I'll give myself a month for now. I have a lot of activites going on - for instance the first of a series of figure drawing studio sessions tonight, and it was SO good to focus on art again, it takes me completely into a meditative state and stops the mind from wandering.

I also need to focus on building my holistic health practice here. I've rented a room until October and need to get some clients in there to pay for it.

Then I got my counselor and the ACA group and friends... and a book I want to translate. I like my freedom. grin


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2684546 06/09/16 08:44 PM
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Day 2 of a course for a volunteer organization today. Not sure if the lady I'm supposed to help really wants me in there... I got the feeling she felt a little threatened! I told them to contact me if they need me.

Then saw the counselor. We talked about how WH is sending me such mixed messages (still).

Last day at new job tomorrow, I will feel so relaxed afterwards. I can tell it was the right decision. Just too much stress right now for my poor brain and body.

I'm wondering if there's men out there who like to talk about stuff (besides Zues wink )? Men who really enjoy talking about humans and their ways. A man who doesn't get uncomfortable discussing the relationship. A male who doesn't feel threatened if I, a female, disagree with him. That is WH's biggest complaint about me - that I want to talk about everything, and too much. Or am I dreaming about a unicorn?

Guys?

I think WH felt that I became too domineering. But I think it happened in a vacuum. He hates making decisions or plans of any kind.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2684548 06/09/16 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: Painter


I'm wondering if there's men out there who like to talk about stuff (besides Zues wink )? Men who really enjoy talking about humans and their ways. A man who doesn't get uncomfortable discussing the relationship. A male who doesn't feel threatened if I, a female, disagree with him. That is WH's biggest complaint about me - that I want to talk about everything, and too much. Or am I dreaming about a unicorn?

Guys?

I think WH felt that I became too domineering. But I think it happened in a vacuum. He hates making decisions or plans of any kind.


Well painter, this sums up a lot of things that my WAW complained about as it relates to me. She said I talked to much about the theories and ways of behaviors and people. She did not like that I wanted to discuss our relationship. She said people don't do that. Good relationships just happen and are meant to be. She never wanted to debate or give differing points of view when discussing things.
I was accused of being to domineering because of how I like to talk things out and have strong opinions.

Basically it sounds like your WH is the male version of my WAW and I am the unicorn that you are dreaming about.
Interesting description you have articulated painter, very interesting indeed.


Me 46 Former W 46
D19 D7
BD Feb 2016
WAW moves out 4/16/16
D final 6/1/2017

It's time for me to start changin' the way I look at the world......and at myself. ~James Howlett aka Wolverine
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That is interesting that you got that. It seems the more common pattern is that WAWs complain about H being emotionally distant, buried in work, not wanting to talk. Do you feel that you are different from your male friends? And do you communicate differently with women than with men?

WH said many of the things to me that your WAW said to you.
- a good relationship doesn't require work, it just is. It's 'too much work' to fix ours.
- I analyze too much. (But it was handy at times.)
- I'm too tenacious. Won't let things go. (Often used after he had a rage, or when I was asking about affair, or most recently, when I have been upset about him moving OW into the house in secret.)
- I want to talk too much about our R. It seems to equate to complaining to him. He is probably right that I didn't say enough positive things about us. Actually, I gave up trying to work on the M at some point, because it was obvious I was alone in my effortss ... until I found out about the A.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2684605 06/10/16 06:28 AM
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Painter,

I feel there are men who like to talk about stuff. My WW said the same things, I buried myself in work and became distant and did not want to talk about the R and in the next breadth said I overanalyze too much.

I think men tend to get in a routine and become complacent and feel life is good and forget about women's emotions sometimes. I know I did and I still wish I could have understood WW perspective sooner. We would be in a much happier place.

Unfortunately all communication is lost now and we are on different paths. I am sure that at some point in the WAW/H's life they will look back and regret or see that they could have done something different but would never have the guts to actually change and do the work especially if there are kids involved.


H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6
S-9,8,8,6,4
S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15
EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16
PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16
XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16
Finally moving forward...
Painter #2684927 06/11/16 02:08 PM
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Hi Painter. I am sorry to hear that you'll be leaving your job, but I think that it's a good decision for you. My hands still shake so much if I'm feeling the least bit uncomfortable that I still can't imagine being able to work in my profession.

Your real job right now is getting through all of this and coming out on the other side as a whole and healed person. Having to keep up appearances in a retail situation is a lot of pressure. Working on your art and your practice and seeing your therapist and your fellow ACA members is plenty to be going on with.

(((((Painter)))))


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
Phoebe #2684944 06/11/16 04:59 PM
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Thank you, Phoebe. So far I'm really happy with my decision.

Went shopping with son today and found some thrift store bargains (a filing cabinet, LOL!) and got his phone refurbished for a great price so I didn't have to buy a new one.

We also went by my place of practice and put up a display of oil blends I make and sell. I have a list of people who had signed up for a drawing for a free half hour treatment to call.

Feels like I got a lot done. We had a really good smoothie at a healthy lunch place we hadn't been to before.

Son was laughing at me because I kept exclaiming how happy I was to be off. grin

Resting a little right now, it's been incredibly hot here today. The cat is always willing to keep me company for a nap.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
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Jim, was there a difference in what she complained about before and after BD? I noticed that after BD, WH complained about odd things, so I tried to focus 180's on pre-BD complaints.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2684963 06/11/16 06:59 PM
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I'm glad you had a good day, Painter. You deserved a break. And a nice smoothie!

May this time bring you peace and healing.

(((Painter)))


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
Phoebe #2685128 06/12/16 04:46 PM
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Just a drive by, Painter. I hope that you are well and that you have had a lovely day.


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
Phoebe #2685139 06/12/16 05:24 PM
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Hi Phoebe,

Just posted to your thread. Sorry your day hasn't been so good. frown

I've had a calmer day than expected (WH is away on business and OW is with him, at a place I wanted to go to with him last year and he said no).

Slept well (overslept so didn't make it to church), and I think the last two mornings were the first in the 2 months since I left that I didn't think about WH and OW as the first thing when I woke up. Nice (and unexpected) change.

Son and I have hung out - he made an amazing bbq pork roast, and I filled the filing cabinet and got rid of the boxes. We also took my dog to a large dog park (9 acres!) where we have been before, so she's very calm and content now after all the playing and running. The weather has been as close to perfect as possible.

I'm doing a little of the home office work today, since I'm seeing a friend for lunch tomorrow. I'm taking with me some flyers and cards, though, we're meeting at her workplace where I had a temp job and know quite a few people. Hopefully I'll pick up a client or two!

I got another e-mail from WH this morning. He expressed repeated concern about OW's FB-postings about the engagement ring and wedding dress that he maintains that he knew nothing about... Her explanation when he asked doesn't make sense to him. He wants to talk to me next week (maybe about that, maybe about something else).

My response was cricket. Nothing. Not a word. I have already said that if he really didn't know anything about it and they were not in touch at the time, she's crazy and he should think about how to untangle himself. Not my circus. He needs to figure it out for himself, if he wants me to not treat him like a child. wink


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2685148 06/12/16 06:08 PM
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Hi painter,

Just my two cents... It doesn't matter that he claims to know nothing about OW engagement ring and wedding dress. She doesn't matter at all. What matters is that he lied and betrayed. That's all that needs to be known. You Are right to allow him to figure it out for himself. You are right to not allow him to keep reeling you back in.

Great response! Glad your doing better.

J.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2685172 06/12/16 09:10 PM
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JujuB, you've got that right!

Crickets are exactly what WH should be hearing from you, Miss Painter. He is responsible for everything that he has done and said. OW, and whatever she may or may not have done, is just a secondary player in his drama. He is a big boy who managed to get himself into whatever he's gotten himself into, and it is his responsibility (and his alone) to sort out the consequences of his actions. He made his bed, and he has to lie (pun intended) in it.

Sleep well, dear Painter. Thank you for the group therapy this evening.

My therapist asked me how I ended up being the repository for most of the empathy in my family. I have no idea how my non-touchy, non-empathetic family managed to produce a person whose first love language is touch and who has problems with being over-empathetic. This apple fell a bit far from the family tree.


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
Painter #2685446 06/13/16 09:35 PM
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Hi painter,

I have been meaning to get back and reply to you for sometime now. I have been super busy, but here I am. grin

Originally Posted By: Painter
That is interesting that you got that. It seems the more common pattern is that WAWs complain about H being emotionally distant, buried in work, not wanting to talk. Do you feel that you are different from your male friends? And do you communicate differently with women than with men?


Yep, she hates how I like to discuss things. She did not like to talk about emotions or how to enhance our relationship. She did not want to discuss parenting practices so we were on the same page, discuss our dreams or future. She simply wanted me to know what she wanted and thought all of the time. When I did not mind read well enough, it was my fault.

I don't believe that my communication with women differ that with men. I have read a lot of material on communication as I feel it is an art that far to many people overlook. Now I am, not saying that I am an expert or great communicator, but I am always looking for better ways to communicate. But I think I take the same approach with both genders.

Originally Posted By: painter

WH said many of the things to me that your WAW said to you.
- a good relationship doesn't require work, it just is. It's 'too much work' to fix ours.
- I analyze too much. (But it was handy at times.)
- I'm too tenacious. Won't let things go. (Often used after he had a rage, or when I was asking about affair, or most recently, when I have been upset about him moving OW into the house in secret.)
- I want to talk too much about our R. It seems to equate to complaining to him. He is probably right that I didn't say enough positive things about us. Actually, I gave up trying to work on the M at some point, because it was obvious I was alone in my effortss ... until I found out about the A.


I heard all of the same. There was/is not an A, but WAW feels things should just happen. She believes some people just don't belong together.

I see a lot of this clearly now. I think I saw signs over the almost 20 years, but I thought if I could just keep trying and just be a better husband or father, she would actually try and put in an effort.
Part of me now feels like she is giving me a gift. A gift to do things that I feel are right without having to worry about pleasing her or convincing her of anything. I can be my own man and do what I feel from the heart.

But anyway, I guess I have a horn growing from my forehead if you thought men like me may just be a unicorn.... wink


Me 46 Former W 46
D19 D7
BD Feb 2016
WAW moves out 4/16/16
D final 6/1/2017

It's time for me to start changin' the way I look at the world......and at myself. ~James Howlett aka Wolverine
SH_ #2685454 06/13/16 10:16 PM
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SH, I also failed miserably at mind-reading. I don't know why I wasn't better at it, it must mean I was just the wrong person for WH, right? crazy

I can relate to gift you're talking about. For me, it's in the relief over that I don't have to try to predict WH's moods, prevent blow-ups (which I couldn't, anyway), or try to guess what he wants. And that I don't get put down for things I feel are positive parts of me - volunteering, taking good care of my pets, and being involved in other people and having empathy. Not having to hide my strong sense of right and wrong. And I have to remind myself of this because with distance and time, I start forgetting about how that felt every day and only remember the good times.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2685459 06/13/16 10:54 PM
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So as usual when I don't have contact with WH, my anger starts to surface. I am so angry at him these days for what he has done. Not only to me, but to his entire family.

He lied to me, betrayed me and deceived me. He hurt me terribly with his thoughtless, selfish actions.

He enlisted his two children, who I took care of for 15 years, to lie to me to hide his secrets.

His daughter has had severe stress reactions over this, and struggles with the reality of what has happened. She just can't merge the father she used to be so close to, with the man who hurt me so bad. So she has to pretend it didn't really happen. The consequence is that her relationship with me is damaged, possibly beyond repair. She just can't take in what her father has done because she is so attached to him and so afraid of losing him. I guess that's what happens when parental love is conditional.

It has damaged his relationship with my son (who he adopted) beyond repair, and it has damaged the relationship between his daughter and my son (who were SO close) because my son supports me (which I actually don't think he would have if I had been the cheater) and is upset that his stepsister has seemingly turned against me after visiting with WH and OW.

WH said he only moved OW in so quickly because of her financial situation (unable to support herself). So his concern for her is obviously greater than his concern for me.

Selfish, narcisisstic teenagers. That's what they act like. Two 60-year olds who behave like they are 16. 'We're happy so everyone should be happy for us.' No regard for other people's feelings or any idea that not everyone would be thrilled for them.

I feel like telling him off and just say: 'F U and F OW and her money problems, how was that more important to you than the woman who raised your kids and took care of your mother for 15 years? If you were really so afraid of hurting me, how about *not* doing stuff that breaks my heart and fractures the family even more?'

He has such a victimized attitude. Every time I was upset about the A, he pointed to the problems we had in our M. He just could not see that those were two separate things. If I asked him directly, he would backpedal, but in his mind, the A was completely excused by the problems we had - and those problems were all caused by me, according to him. When I point out that it seems unfair to blame it all on me, he admits that he's sure there's things I was unhappy with, but he can only tell me what *he* experienced. So much for introspection!

I have noticed this victimized attitude in petty criminals. Many of them will feel that they had the right to steal because someone had slighted them. It's an attitude that completely robs you of power of your own destiny. My stepson has a lot of this, and I always told him that he could chose to be a victim and stew over life's unfairness and go nowhere, or he could take charge and create his own life on his own terms. He actually said to me once, 'I don't do anything, I just react to what others to do me.' Well, there's the problem right there... And I know where he has that idea from.

Ah. I think I feel a little better now.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2685536 06/14/16 07:21 AM
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Bad night. Feel asleep late, without meds, then woke an hour later from a dream about WH making love to OW. Toik a pill and slept another 3 hours and woke from another dream about WH having moved on to a young girl and I was in the house (which was the house I grew up in), talking to my stepkids and trying to figure out what was going on. Exhausted.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
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(((Painter)))


H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6
S-9,8,8,6,4
S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15
EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16
PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16
XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16
Finally moving forward...
J5K #2685578 06/14/16 09:51 AM
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Painter, I understand your anger and desire to rationalize and get husband to rationalize and listen to reason and sense.

But sometimes you just can't tell someone anything. They have every right to do what they feel is best for them whether it's right or not by our standards. Our lives get easier when we accept this and work within what we have control of.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2685604 06/14/16 11:06 AM
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Hi Painter, I'm sorry you had a rough night. And I agree with Juju - he will do what he will do. And some choices that makes may be poor ones and that's on him.

Try not to believe stuff about OW and finances - who knows why she moved in - only that she did. And, like so many of our situations, the WAS's disregard for significant relationships and history is staggering. Any time my mind goes to that, it doesn't really help as it is the past - I try and stay in the present and future these days and it does help!

The main thing is to find ways to release the anger - expect nothing of him and don't release the anger at him - but do find ways to let it out. Anger is energy that needs to be expended, so any vigorous job will help - and hopefully you will feel calmer and with better sleep.

The important thing is to own your own anger and process it.

Take care Sweetie and hope you get a better sleep tonight xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Sotto #2685734 06/14/16 08:07 PM
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I wonder why you get more angry when you have less contact with WH?

It seems that you really want more contact with him, and I worry that is perhaps not the healthiest thing for you, Painter. Less contact means less opportunity to get mired down in all the minutia of his nonsense. He has done so much to hurt you, and continued contact allows him more opportunity to do so. He doesn't deserve that chance.

Either way, it's good that you vent your anger here, or put it to some good use elsewhere, rather than directing it at WH. Sharing it with him would be a waste of good energy.

I hope that you sleep better tonight, lovely Painter. Get outside tomorrow and enjoy the blue hour. smile

Thank you for sharing that term, by the way. I love it!

((((((Painter))))))


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
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Phoebe, I think when I don't have contact with him, I'm not so under his spell, so all the bad things he has done comes to the surface without contradiction from his mixed messages. I noticed the same thing when I was living there and he was away on business trips. I would get angrier and angrier while he was gone, but it would all evaporate the moment he walked in through the door.

I can't explain what it is about him. An acupuncturist friend of mine said that he has incredibly strong chi - she had never treated anyone with that kind of life force before. I know that he hasn't been without a GF or wife since he was 14... and I'm wife #5, so although he's not what you consider traditionally handsome, he definitely knows how to attract and win over women. I wasn't attracted to him initially, but he won me over with persistence and charm, and I married him because I felt he was such a kind and generous person who appreciated me for who I am.

And I know I'm still hoping that he will suddenly change into the person he used to be, and say that it was all a huge mistake and of course we belong together. It's just a few months since we had a reconciliation where he behaved like the perfect partner - for about 48 hours.

I'm just having a really hard time accepting what's going on. I'm committed and tenacious, and at this point that trait may also be working against me.

I have mostly been working today, there's a lot to do for the organization I work from home for. I went to an interesting lunch meeting about getting into a corporate wellness program as a provider.

It was a good and productive day - until I was typing in an address and it was for a city that H regularly goes to for business. For some reason, it felt like someone sucked the air out of my lungs and I just started sobbing. It was such a trigger, and so unexpected.

I've recovered now, but it's not a good day and I hope to sleep well so I'm better tomorrow.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
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Sotto, thank you, I'm hoping for a good night's sleep for all of us!

I have a problem about just putting things behind me and focus on the future. Throughout the M, H would never discuss anything or deal with my reactions to his rages because 'it's over, let it go'. He would say this literally 2 minutes after he was done raging.

Anything I had an issue with - things that really needed to be discussed because they were unresolved, was 'let it go, you're beating a dead horse, why are we going over this again'. But nothing had been agreed on, decided or done. He's been saying that about the A, too. 'It's over, you're just going to bring this up forever, aren't you?' I would reply that it was 2 weeks since I found out he had cheated on me, so 'forever' might be an exaggeration.

So maybe I'm a little more unwilling to put things behind me than many others, because I've been told to do just that for years. I guess I'm still trying to get H to acknowledge that he has hurt me. It's only 3 weeks since I found out that he had moved OW in, and it was such a traumatic experience. I know it's probably not going to happen, though. I'm just working my way through it.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
JujuB #2685744 06/14/16 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: JujuB
Painter, I understand your anger and desire to rationalize and get husband to rationalize and listen to reason and sense.

But sometimes you just can't tell someone anything. They have every right to do what they feel is best for them whether it's right or not by our standards. Our lives get easier when we accept this and work within what we have control of.


Wise words. Like I said to Sotto, I think I'm trying to get him to acknowledge that he has wronged me and hurt me. He has done it a few times, but in a very limited and indirect way. He did say recently that he has been the fool (I told him he had made a fool of me) for destroying relationships.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2685749 06/14/16 09:09 PM
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Even if he tells you what you want to hear, would that make it so?

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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It would be validation, to hear him that he treated me poorly and regrets his choices. It wouldn't turn back time, but it would make me feel validated.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
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Sleep well Painter.


H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6
S-9,8,8,6,4
S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15
EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16
PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16
XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16
Finally moving forward...
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Thanks Jim, working myself to sleep here... Hope you have a good night, too.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2685764 06/14/16 11:10 PM
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Hi Painter, I can understand it feeling difficult to look forward. The only thing I would say WRT to your H is you may not actually get anything helpful from him.

When I had this kind of convo with XH - he said that he knew he'd made mistakes, but he hopes I would see he's a genuine guy who truly knows what he wants now (ie: a new family with someone else.)

That didn't help me at all and still rankles. I think I must have posted it 20x on this forum! So.....with his mindset right now, he may not offer anything that really helps you...

I hope you have a better day today, and sorry I didn't mean to minimise your pain at all - this recent revelation was difficult and it does take time to work through that, and you're doing really well in tough circumstances I think.

Take care xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Sotto #2685781 06/15/16 05:35 AM
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Honestly, you are so not far into this, wanting these things and having difficulty looking forward is so normal.

8 years I have. 8 years ago my ex cheated on me while I was pregnant (took me until they were engaged to find out), left me when our daughter was a baby, went on to marry this woman.

The only ounce of validation I ever got was "sorry it had ot happen this way" and that was very insincere.

I didn't want him back. I wanted to be SORRY. To admit to mistakes. Show some regret. A little validation of the pure hell he put me through. I got nada. Eventually my need for it just faded away. That's when I really began to look forward.

You will get there, that I can promise you. It's just going to take a little time and work.

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Sotto, no worries - your post helped me clarify to myself what is going on in my mind and where in the process I am. That's really important!


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
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Ginger, that's horrific. I really think they just can't live with themselves if they admit what they've done. I know H thinks of himself as a nice guy. Nice guys don't cheat on their wives. So it's a cognitive dissonance situation where he has to change his behavior or perceptions to not feel mental stress. It's easier to change perceptions - decide that this somehow had to happen, was out of his power (like H had to move OW in due to her financial situation) than to change the behavior because that would also include an admission of having done something wrong.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
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Great discussion.


I think it is every single LBS ultimate fantasy...that walkaway spouse will one day see things the way we do. That they will regret their actions and regret the loss of LBS. Validation that will communicate their regret for losing us.

But here's the truth. All that does, is simply feed our egos. None of us wants to be disposable. But the fact is we were very disposable to them. Our family was disposable to them.

Now this might say more about them and what they are capable of regarding committment and family and values. Or it might simply be that they recognize life is short, they are miserable with us and need a different path. It doesn't matter because the outcome is the same.

I think true strength comes from not needing their lies or validation or ego boosts or them. True strength comes from just accepting the loss and moving on because it's out of our control and we are ok with ourselves.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
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I see it a little differently. I think of it more like an injustice or a crime that I have a natural need for restitution from. In the state H and I lived in, is is a crime. A misdemeanor, but still.

If your home was burglarized or your car stolen, or your daughter raped or killed, we would all feel the perpetrator should be held accountable, right? We wouldn't think of that need for justice as something that was about ego, or that we would be stronger if we didn't pursue the issue.

Most women are raped by someone they know. A beloved grandfather or uncle may have molested children in the family. The family is devastated. Someone they loved and have known all their lives, have done something horrific. The individual family members will handle it differently - some will go into denial, some will blame the victim, some will feel he should be punished. It's hard when someone you love does something bad. It can fracture the family. People take sides and never get past it.

I don't think I necessarily need to hear H say that he regrets losing me. I mainly want him to admit that what he did was wrong and hurtful and that his choice to have an A has has nothing to do with our M problems.

Him using our M problems as an excuse to have and A and replace me with OW is sort of like if he had never learned how to drive, got a car and crashed it, and then blamed the crash on the car and thought if he just got a new car, he wouldn't crash again.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2685881 06/15/16 12:18 PM
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Painter, I am wondering if you noticed a difference in your H when he was actively in an A and when he wasn't. I'm currently in early piecing and I want to stop all snooping / verifying for my own sake. My thought is that the first time I immediately noticed the difference in my W's attitude and am thinking I would notice it again if something were to happen in the future.

But then I wonder if they just learn from their mistakes the first time and get better at hiding it.


M - 9 1/2 years
5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA
10/31/16 - We sold house
01/10/18 - D Finalized
Painter #2685883 06/15/16 12:20 PM
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I can understand that. I guess my concern would be - it may be a cheese less tunnel and he may well not give you what you seek.

For me, the justice in these situations plays out in a much longer way.....in a tortoise and hare kind of fashion. By the LBS taking control, moving forward any living a good life.

JMHO of course....😊xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Originally Posted By: Coconut
Painter, I am wondering if you noticed a difference in your H when he was actively in an A and when he wasn't. I'm currently in early piecing and I want to stop all snooping / verifying for my own sake. My thought is that the first time I immediately noticed the difference in my W's attitude and am thinking I would notice it again if something were to happen in the future.

But then I wonder if they just learn from their mistakes the first time and get better at hiding it.


Yes, I think I did. He was angrier at me, more withdrawn, sadder. But it was different throughout.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2686052 06/16/16 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted By: Painter
I see it a little differently. I think of it more like an injustice or a crime that I have a natural need for restitution from. In the state H and I lived in, is is a crime. A misdemeanor, but still.

If your home was burglarized or your car stolen, or your daughter raped or killed, we would all feel the perpetrator should be held accountable, right? We wouldn't think of that need for justice as something that was about ego, or that we would be stronger if we didn't pursue the issue.

Most women are raped by someone they know. A beloved grandfather or uncle may have molested children in the family. The family is devastated. Someone they loved and have known all their lives, have done something horrific. The individual family members will handle it differently - some will go into denial, some will blame the victim, some will feel he should be punished. It's hard when someone you love does something bad. It can fracture the family. People take sides and never get past it.

I don't think I necessarily need to hear H say that he regrets losing me. I mainly want him to admit that what he did was wrong and hurtful and that his choice to have an A has has nothing to do with our M problems.

Him using our M problems as an excuse to have and A and replace me with OW is sort of like if he had never learned how to drive, got a car and crashed it, and then blamed the crash on the car and thought if he just got a new car, he wouldn't crash again.


Painter,

I completely understand how you feel. I want my husband to regret and suffer and acknowledge as well. You are so lucky you are in a state that somewhat supports marital contracts. In fact, right now I am in one of those livid moods consummed with anger at how he wasted my life because he was a irresponsible, greedy, selfish, pathetic, coward.

But here's the thing, it's like expecting actual remorse from a sociopathic serial killer. There is something wrong with them or they would not have done this and certainly not the way that they did. They can say anything but it has no substance.

Holding onto it just keeps us in a bad spot. And I do it too. But it's getting less frequent. It used to be 24/7 now it's maybe certain time of month or with certain triggers.

I look forward to one day not feeling this way at all. And I hope that for you too.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2686075 06/16/16 08:42 AM
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Painter

Do you ever suspect that some of our anger is really at ourselves? Because yeah husbands treated us like .... But they could not have done that unless we allowed it.

I am so mad that I gave up my pride for someone so unworthy. But that's on me.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
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I regret certain things I did to contribute to the breakdown of or marriage, but I don't blame myself for allowing H to treat me poorly. It's on him, not on me. I have learned valuable things about myself in the process and don't really regret much.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2686719 06/20/16 01:46 PM
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Quick update: It's been really tough lately. I'm staying reasonably active but have had some hard days and nights.

I'm taking in the thought that WH is not a nice person who is just misguided, but actually a serial cheater (once with me but has cheated on previous wives) and has little remorse or empathy (he told me about the empathy part last year and said he wondered if something was wrong with him).

It's a lot of processing to pull out emotionally from a relationship of 15 years, and deal with the fact that I was married to someone else than I thought I was.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2686744 06/20/16 03:50 PM
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You know, I'm working on the exact same realization, Painter, and it really is a very difficult thing to process.

Like you, I've come to realize that my H is not a nice person that's taken the wrong path. At some point in our marriage he changed and was simply pretending to be a nice person. He has also showed no true signs of any remorse or regret. He told me did some online tests for narcissism and sociopathy. He also, of course, had to tell me that he didn't score high for either diagnosis, so he could deny that there was anything wrong with him.

The bottom line is that on some level he knew he should feel worse than he did, but he simply did not.

I was just talking about this with my therapist today, actually. It's a lot to arrive at, and I am also wondering who I was actually married to all those years. Was he ever the person he appeared to be, and if he changed, then when did it happen and how did I miss it? It's all very troubling.

I search back for red flags, and they are few and far between, and subtle even now. Everything I've learned has been after the fact, or hindsight.

All I know is that my thoughts on him are changing rapidly at this point. I think you are getting there, too.

(((((Painter)))))


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
Phoebe #2686754 06/20/16 05:01 PM
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Phoebe, in spite of everything, I'm glad that you're not being yo-yo'ed by your H like I have been over the last 2 years. I think the distance is to your advantage, and that you have your own place that you get to keep for yourself. You get a more even trajectory and fewer setbacks with no mixed messages.

(For some reason, I envision your place sort of like Hobbiton - a safe little pocket in a stormy world. smile )

I've been wondering if it's a case of our H's choosing partners they admired, and then they start feeling like they are less, so they find someone who is lesser than them (sorry if this sounds arrogant, but most places I read that people affair 'down') so they can feel better about themselves.

H talks poorly of OW but I think he sees himself as her rescuer/hero.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2686768 06/20/16 07:07 PM
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Yes, i can definitely see how you've been played for a long time, and that is an awful thing to do to someone.

My H left, then strung me along with false hope for 3 1/2 months (fence-sitting, in hindsight) before I found out that things were so much worse than I knew (PA, etc.). Since then, he's made no pretense of remorse or interest in our M.

Basically, I think I kind of hit bottom after the PA smackdown, and I've just been climbing out of the hole since. Distance from him, having my own place to bond to, and being near my family has definitely been my saving graces. I'm able to keep busy and engaged with other people, and it gives me a measure of peace to have my animals and land.

My L had me look at H's and OW's photo feeds today to see if I could figure out where he is these days, and I saw another picture of her. She's not very cute in her recent photo. She's OK, I guess, but she's younger than me by 7 years yet doesn't look it. I suspect she's damaged in some way, possibly from her own failed marriage, and maybe that lets him feel better about himself (after all, he said he felt inferior to me). Beyond that, I know she's educated, and that's about it. Maybe it's an affair down, but I don't know.

Anyway, enough about my H!!! He is not worth my time and energy.

I hope that you get a good night of dreamless sleep, Miss Painter!


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
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Painter,

I wish I had some words of comfort for you. All I can say is I am starting to get numb to this whole incident. I hope that some day we all find the happiness we deserve to have.

(((Painter)))


H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6
S-9,8,8,6,4
S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15
EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16
PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16
XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16
Finally moving forward...
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I hope so, too, Jim!

Phoebe, just a quick thought - some photos you can download and get info off - like GPS coordinates...


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
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good thinking, Painter. Thank you for that reminder.


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
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Long, restless night with not much sleep - feel asleep late and was awake in the middle of the night. The last part I spent telling H off (dream).

I had a realization last night that threw me for a loop. The deceit about OW started already in 2011. I've known this, but didn't really put 2+2 together until now.

H told me in 2011 that an old colleague had contacted him on Facebook. The way he acted was a little bit off - he sounded really shocked that she had contacted him, and he looked at me sideways a little - it's hard to explain but in retrospect I realize he was very aware that he was withholding information and he was gauging my reaction.

He didn't tell me at the time that he had fallen for her the moment he saw her (1983), or that she had cheated on her then partner with H but didn't want to continue the affair.

H went on to marry (exW before me) and OW moved away.

I sent H an e-mail last night. I have written many that I didn't send, but I realized that I have been concerned about telling him how I really feel because I didn't want to lose contact. So I replied to his latest and told him that I was heartbroken that I put my trust in him and that it pains me to have to admit that he is probably not a good person. Because good people don't teach their kids to lie, they don't deceive and cheat on their wives for 5 years and break families apart to get what they want. If they hurt someone, they try to find a way to make up for it, and stop doing whatever the hurtful behavior is.

I don't know why it sometimes takes me so long to realize it when people are not nice to me. I really want to work on that. It's not the first time I've noticed it.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2686852 06/21/16 10:50 AM
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I'm sorry you are going through this sitch, it sounds horrible. All I can say is you are way nicer person than I am. I would probably have cut all contact (an A is all I would need to detach).


Me-45, W-37, T-10 yrs, M-9 yrs
D -7 yrs, S-5 yrs
BD-5/3/16, D filed 6/8/16

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Thanks, QT - you know I would have thought so myself, until it happened. And it may not be because I'm a nice person, maybe I'm just way too dependent on H.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
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Painter, you're just normal. I don't think that we can know our own limits until they are tested.

I'm sorry that you have put a couple more puzzle pieces together and the picture they revealed isn't a pretty one. I can relate only too well to that.

I hope that you are able to get a better night's sleep tonight. I hope it's dr aimless.


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
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Thanks, Phoebe - since the board has been so inaccessible, that post was actually about the night before last, but yesterday and last night were also bad. 4 hours of on and off crying before I was able to sleep at 3am. It's crazy - at times I cry so much I feel dehydrated! I never thought crying was an activity that might warrant Gatorade...

Doing much better tonight, though, I had a productive work day and went to figure drawing studio tonight, and although I didn't feel great and only stayed half the alloted time, I was quite happy with what I did and felt accomplished when I left.

Son and I went for a walk with the dog when I got home, then picked up a few groceries. For some reason, I feel completely calm tonight. I have no idea why. I just feel... normal. I try to not think too much about it, just enjoy the respite. Maybe the body just takes over when it becomes too much so we can get a break?


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2687267 06/23/16 07:54 PM
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I am so happy to hear that, Painter! I've had a good day, today, too, and I also am feeling much more like myself than I have since December.

Crying just has gotten so old, and while I still do it fairly often, including each of the previous two days when I worked on my grief recovery stuff, but today was a no-tears day. I like those.

Maybe it's a fluke, or maybe it's a trend. I have no idea, but I've been happy with every moment of this new-found normalcy. I have been laughing and smiling all day long, having fun with friends and family, being active, thrift shopping, and enjoying my critter, and it has felt really, really good. Thoughts of H haven't been making me either sad or angry today, they just leave me shaking my head at the absurdity of it all.

I hope that we both continue to have more of these normal days.

Sleep well, lovely Painter!


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
Phoebe #2687271 06/23/16 08:29 PM
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That is so strange that we have such similar days!

I have maintained my calm the entire day today. Did a lot of cleaning around the house this morning, and worked in the afternoon.

I saw my IC today and told her about it, that I'm almost afraid to do anything in case I start feeling the pain again, but we agreed that it's helpful even if it doesn't last because it gives me an experience of what I most likely will feel permanently in the future.

Maybe my body just needed to shut down temporarily to protect me, or the realization of how it all happened gave me acceptance. I'd like to know because I'm curious like a cat! grin

Hope you have a good night's sleep!


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2687397 06/24/16 01:05 PM
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Still not experiencing much emotional pain today. Feeling a little off physically - and it could be emotional, really. Bouts of extreme sleepiness.

I wrote the beginning of an article last night. I think I may have solved the puzzle of what happened and it feels good, like I can close the case.

Not much more to say... Feels like it's time for a nap (or a Coke).


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2687410 06/24/16 02:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,091
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I am glad you are better today Painter. Have a great weekend!


H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6
S-9,8,8,6,4
S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15
EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16
PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16
XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16
Finally moving forward...
J5K #2687431 06/24/16 09:11 PM
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I am also glad that you had a day without significant emotional upheaval. I also had a day like that, and I am grateful for every single one of them!



Last edited by Cadet; 06/24/16 10:25 PM. Reason: Start a new thread message

H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
Phoebe #2687746 06/26/16 08:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,081
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Where did you go to Miss Painter??? Do you have a new thread yet?


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
Phoebe #2687756 06/26/16 09:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,450
P
Painter Offline OP
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OP Offline
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Posts: 1,450


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
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