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#2681420 05/28/16 09:10 AM
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Link to previous thread:

Why don't you come to your senses

It's been a very busy and at times stressful week. We wrapped up three projects at the office and made big inroads on a fourth. I'm looking forward to a relaxing, stress-free 3-day weekend.

I had the stitches taken out on my nose on Monday and had to leave the little bandage on for five days. I took it off this morning and boy am I glad I didn't let the dermatologist scrape my nose. You can hardly tell anything was ever done. I'm very, very pleased.

A trip to the dentist this week for a cleaning has led me to another "cosmetic" improvement. I have a tooth that is getting dark and it has been bugging me because it just doesn't look good when I smile. The dentist said there's nothing wrong with the tooth, but fillings that were done years and years ago are beginning to show through the thinning enamel. He said whitening won't really solve the problem and the only solution was a crown. So, I've elected to have that done on Tuesday. grin

MIL is doing better. There are therapists coming in and getting her out of bed and exercising. The prognosis is that they can get her back to where she was before the fall.

On the MLC front, things have been somewhat quiet, but I have this vibe that the dynamic is not the same and I can't quite put my finger on what it is. I feel like I'm in a fog. eek I sense a change taking place between H and I since he was here but I'm not sure what it is exactly or how to interpret or respond to it. I feel like we have a better business connection than we've had in a long while, but don't know if that will be the extent of it or if it will lead to a better dynamic on the personal level. I'm kind of at a loss as to how to deal with it. I want to encourage it but not interfere with his process. Uncharted waters!

H calls into the office every day and until recently, our call usually only lasted about 5 minutes. H has become more and more chatty, mostly about business issues and plans, but he also talks about things he's doing other than business more than in the recent past. The calls are going 20 minutes or longer now and he's doing most of the talking.

H and I were always a pretty good team in running the business until MLC hit and he stopped talking to me about his plans or asking my opinion about possible directions. I have felt for a long time that the "team work" had fallen by the wayside. Now he's back to talking about plans, asking for my input, etc. It feels more like being a team than it's felt in a long time. I don't quite know what to make of it, but I'm pretty happy that we are starting to communicate more in that area. He's showing more interest in what's going on here and the direction of the business than he has in quite some time and I have so needed his help.

On the personal side, H is on a trip to the mountains this weekend. He told me a couple of days ago about an all day hike he was taking the next day and that he was looking forward to hiking and having some time to think about the business and "other things." I have no idea what "other things" means, but it does sound like he's processing stuff and if so, I'm glad to hear that. After the discussions we had while he was here, I sort of thought he had some things to think about. What the outcome will be, who knows?

H's birthday was a couple of days ago, so I bought a birthday card, took pics of it and sent them to him along with birthday wishes. He seemed very appreciative of that.

This weekend will give me an answer to my "experiment" ... cracking a window to encourage him to contact me on the weekend without me contacting him first. (As I said in my previous thread, I had told him some time ago when things were pretty rough not to contact me except at the office or about business. I've since told him that it was okay to call whenever he wanted, but he still stays quiet.) We'll see if I get any contact over this long weekend. My expectation is at zero.

Wishing everyone a fun and safe holiday weekend.

2T


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2T, catching up on your thread. I’m so happy to hear the news about the dermatology results. I’m also glad that your mother-in-law is doing better.

Originally Posted By: 2Times2Many
On the MLC front, things have been somewhat quiet, but I have this vibe that the dynamic is not the same and I can't quite put my finger on what it is. I feel like I'm in a fog. eek I sense a change taking place between H and I since he was here but I'm not sure what it is exactly or how to interpret or respond to it. I feel like we have a better business connection than we've had in a long while, but don't know if that will be the extent of it or if it will lead to a better dynamic on the personal level. I'm kind of at a loss as to how to deal with it. I want to encourage it but not interfere with his process. Uncharted waters!

2T, this is so similar to what I feel these days. My sitch is nowhere close to what you have. But, I also feel like there is something changing and that I’m in the fog and not sure what to do when things come up (like that story with lipstick).

It seems that your H is feeling more comfortable talking to you. I would give him some more time to process things and I’m sure he will start connecting more. Hope you are having a great weekend too.


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Thank you, Bright. I'm chuckling about your comment that your sitch is nowhere near where mine is. I really don't know where the heck my sitch is. confused It was somewhat easy when H was in full-blown replay .... GAL, NC, detach, etc ... but now I see some indications that he is processing the damage he's done and has some regret and I have no clue what to do. Just keep on doing what I've been doing and dig for patience and understanding and forgiveness, I suppose. Hey, vets ... help needed here.

I hope you're having a great weekend.

I think I need a little advice. It has to do with BIL and I'm not quite sure what to do. I don't know if I should tell H what's been going on or just STFU for now since it's not really detrimental to the business. Here's the sitch ...

As I mentioned above, we've had several projects going on and one of them is very time consuming and is not complete. It was under way before I took off week before last. BIL was supposed to help, but hasn't.

I discovered that during the time I was off, BIL spent pretty much a whole day on personal stuff (when he could have been assisting on the project). He was also late completing what is his his normal job, but had an excuse that H bought into.

Second, he contacted one of our big customers to inquire about getting a present for his wife. He could have just bought it online, but he contacted their buyer and I have to assume he is looking for a discount (due to our "relationship" with the buyer). That's a big time no-no in our business, is specifically addressed in our handbook and is grounds for dismissal.

Both of those things would set H off.

I don't know whether to relate that stuff to H or just put some duct tape over my mouth. I don't want to look like a "tattle-tale" and I don't want to be put in a place of being between H and BIL (I want to break that triangle), but if I say nothing, I'm going against H's request that I keep him informed about what is going on here.

When all the MLC stuff started, H put BIL in place so H could go do his thing. H is beginning to realize that was a mistake and I believe it was a huge one, but I don't trust my own motivations. If H decides that BIL has to go, that's a huge benefit to me because H would have to come back more or permanently to run the company, which is what I would love to see happen. Duh!

One thing I do know is that left to BIL, our company would go under and the company is our investment for "old age."

I suppose I don't trust myself. If H and I were not married and he was just some dude I was a partner with, I would speak up, but the sitch is more complicated than that.

Maybe I just answered my own question?? IDK. Thoughts??


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You know, that is a really tough situation. And it impacts so many relationships/lives.

My advice is to sit on it for a few days. Mull it all over. First determine if you even want this to be your role. And then, perhaps ask h how much he wants to know? Maybe say: "what do you see as my role here, in this situation? Am I your eyes and ears in this company?" And I might even go so far as to lay out to him the position you are in; conveying to him the trickiness of it and your uncertainly in your role?

We owned a rental property on the east coast and managed it from a remote area--too far to pop in. At first, everyone worked hard. But, once employees saw how infrequently we returned and that all management was done "honor system," well, it became a quick game of "when the cat's away, the mice will play."

I am just thinking, it's his brother, his wife and part his company. He may want to be made aware or maybe he wants to be oblivious. If it's the former, well, you have direction, assuming you are okay in that role.

It is very difficult to run a business from a remote location. That is just reality. I am not sure you are doing him any favors by acting otherwise?


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2681653 05/29/16 06:47 PM
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Hiya, 2T.

I hope you don't mind this offer of support in your business predicament with BIL. I am manager with employees under my direct supervision and can understand how prickly professional relationships can get at times. In your case, it's a family member which can make things complicated for sure.

In my home office, I have this wonderful booklet on the bookshelf titled Perfect Phrases for Dealing With Difficult People by Susan F. Benjamin. It's saved me many, many headaches. You also might want to Google Ten Tips for Dealing with A Lazy Coworker to get some ideas.

Do your homework and prepare some crib sheets. I always do when I know that a potentially difficult conversation with an employee needs to happen and they've helped me keep on point and on topic. This way I've always had the upper hand and maintaining control of the discussion.

Good luck!

Wonka #2681827 05/30/16 01:48 PM
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Thank you HW and Wonka for chiming in.

HW, I've been mulling this over all weekend. When H was here last, he begged me to keep him informed about what was going on over here and actually used the term "eyes and ears." Prior to that, details about the ops here didn't seem all that important to him. But things have not gone as well as he hoped/expected they would while he's been MIA, so he's taking an interest again.

I've been sending him business updates once or twice a week as he requested. I made it pretty clear to H that I didn't care for the position I was in because I didn't want to affect his R with his brother. H said don't worry about it ... you're my partner and teammate.

Wonka, please feel free to offer support and advice anytime you like! I've already ordered the books! I also will try the crib notes idea. I'm not a confrontational type (although I've learned to stand up for myself over the past couple of years --- imagine that!) so that should help me when dealing with BIL. Thank you for the suggestions.

I wasn't going to send H's update when I knew he was awake unless I heard from him and I did receive a text this morning saying he was back from his trip and that he hoped I was having an enjoyable weekend. I said I hoped he enjoyed the trip and I'd be sending an update email a little later. (If I hadn't heard from him I would have sent the update later so he'd have it in the morning. I didn't want to initiate contact on a day when he wouldn't normally expect to here from me.)

So, I sent the email with all the normal, boring stuff and then moved on to BIL. I started that out with ...

"Now on to a couple of things I've been debating about telling you. I really don't like having to be the one "reporting" on your brother's doings. It's a very uncomfortable place to be. But you've asked me to be your eyes and ears and I figure if you were some other dude I was partnered with, I'd pass this along. And if any other employee were doing this stuff, you wouldn't tolerate it. So, despite my discomfort, here goes."

I then went into the two issues, but only reported facts and didn't offer any opinion at all regarding any of it.

I didn't get a reply, so I have no idea what his reaction is. It will depend on his mood. Sometimes he gets bent out of shape about stuff his brother does and other times he lets it slide. I'll know tomorrow.

Thanks again, HaWho and Wonka, for your replies.

One more week to go and then I invade NYC. I can't wait!


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2T have you heard back from your H yet? I hope he takes it the right way, at the end of the day he is the one that asked for the updates, isn't he?

How are you otherwise? You must be so excited about your trip, I bet you cannot wait!


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





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I like the way that you advised your h of the normal things w/the business and then introduced the subject of the uncomfortable position that you are in. After all, he needs to be aware of what is going on w/the business you both own. The BIL is taking advantage of the fact that your h is not on site and is doing things that would normally have someone fired over. Besides, you are put into the position of watching and hearing about this stuff and probably can't do anything about it w/the BIL. A very uncomfortable position to be in and I'm sure it can be stressful at times too.

Your h needs time to digest what you've posted to him...he will respond back to you in a bit.

I'm sure you are counting down the days to go to NYC. I do hope that you enjoy yourself and can recharge your battery while you are there.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2682053 05/31/16 11:06 AM
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Hi Esame and Job. Thanks for stopping by.

I awoke to a lengthy text message thanking me for sending the update. He was not overtly "angry" about BIL but did say he was sick of some of his antics and will be addressing that with him.

The bulk of the text was about my hesitancy to tell him things about BIL. His exact words were, "Why on earth are you hesitant to tell me things like that?" He said he didn't understand it and all he could think was that I was afraid he would get mad at me for telling him stuff about his brother.

I texted back that I wasn't afraid of him getting angry at me and that I would try to explain later.

Before I left for the office, he texted and asked if I had time to talk. I said yes and he called. We caught up on some brief business stuff and then on to BIL.

Basically I told him that if BIL were any other employee I wouldn't hesitate to tell him things, but BIL is his brother and I didn't want to feel like I was causing family problems (I've told him this before). I also said that I don't always completely trust my opinions about BIL. I said BIL has his strengths and listed a couple but I just don't like working with him and listed a few reasons why. He didn't hear anything new unless he forgot what I said previously. He probably did.

H took it all in and said he understood that working with BIL wasn't like working with him. He said BIL is just doing "a job" and that's it. He doesn't have the passion or urgency that we had and still have.

That remark didn't really come across to me as defensive of BIL, but more as a way to explain BIL. Maybe he was trying to say I expect too much from BIL?? IDK. I don't think so because H no longer expects what he once did out of BIL. Who knows??

He went on to say to never fear or worry about telling him about things like the ones in the email. He said he needs to know this stuff, he needs to know what's going on in his company, that he's d@*ned glad I'm checking up on things and to please keep telling him what I find.

When he called into the office later he seemed fine. He called me sweetie and he tends to call ladies close to him sweetie when he's in a good mood.

I didn't say this to H, but if H were to fire BIL tomorrow, I'd celebrate. And that attitude scares me because I worry if I'm being objective. I want so badly for H to come back and take control of this company. It needs it. The business has suffered from H's neglect. And I fear that desire colors my objectivity when it comes to BIL because BIL is supposed to be filling H's shoes, so to speak. So there's this question ... is he really that bad or am I making him out to be because he isn't H and can't accomplish what H could/can? I know, that if I wanted to, I could make BIL look like the worst employee who ever walked through our door (actually, it wouldn't be difficult). But I try to be objective, push my personal thoughts aside, think of BIL as just another employee and treat him in the same manner I'd treat other employees (who don't affect my personal sitch). It's difficult. And that is one of the main reasons I hesitate to say anything to H about BIL. What a mess.

Job, I'm really looking forward to the trip. I have day one pretty much planned out but not day two. I may just go where the wind blows me that day.

This afternoon I head over to the dentist to get a crown on that discolored tooth. A prettier smile is on the way!


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I love my dentist! He worked magic and my smile looks as good ... maybe better ... than it did when I was 30!

When I was in the dentist chair, staring at the ceiling while the Novocaine did its thing, I thought about the remarks at the end of my last post and it was like a light came on re my anxiety about BIL.

While I don't want to get between H and BIL and I don't want to be the in-law who stirs up issues and discontent in the family, I think I finally realized my real issue.

I want H to come back and run his company because he is a savvy businessman and it would be financially beneficial to both of us. But, like our M, I want him to come back because he WANTS to and not because I influenced him in any way and believe me, I could influence him big time when it comes to BIL's performance and attitude toward H. I want a decision to come back to be his decision and I don't want him to move in a direction that he might later regret or one he feels he HAS to take or, worse, blame me for at some point in the future should he regret coming back.

I see it as two sides of the MLC coin. The personal one where he walked away from me and our M and the business one where he walked away from his business interests on this side of the world.

When I look at it from that perspective, my whole outlook changes. Instead of feeling like a fish flopping around on the pier when it comes to the business, I feel like I have a handle on things. I think I got this. I see it as DBing on two fronts. I think that will help me identify what I should relate to H and what is best left unsaid (the things that don't affect operations or are personal attacks against him). The encouraging part is H seems to be trying to reconnect to the business over here and that is something to work with and something I'm thankful for.

Yup. I got this now.


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2T things sound good in all fronts, don't they?

Firstly well done to your dentist, that must be such a confidence boost for you!

Secondly, well done to you for handling the situation so well. It seems like you are getting through to your H without causing issues with the BIL.

I think separating the issues sounds like a good idea, two different db fronts might be easier to work on than one that is too complicated.

I hope your H continues to try to reconnect to your business and to the M.


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





Esame #2682772 06/03/16 12:29 AM
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Thank you for your kind reply to my thread 2T. I really appreciate you stopping by.

I hope you are well x


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





Esame #2683144 06/04/16 04:16 PM
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Well, I was getting really excited about my upcoming trip but my enthusiasm took a big leap backward last night. I got a call from my sister and she is back in the hospital with pneumonia. This is the third time in just over 2 months. She still weighs only 77 lbs. I don't know how much longer she can keep doing this. She doesn't seem to make much progress before she relapses and is back in the same condition. It's frightening.

As I grew older, it was a forgone conclusion that I would, in all likelihood, outlive my parents, but I never thought I would outlive my little sister. She's all I have left of my childhood family and I really don't want to lose her, even though we've always had issues. She's too young and so am I. I don't want to be the last one left.

After talking to sis, I sent an update on her condition to H. He's never particularly liked her, but he asks about her often. I suspect that's more for my benefit because I've expressed my fears about her to him.

I added something that may not have been a good thing. I told him that too many chapters in my life seemed to be closing at the same time and I didn't know if I was strong enough to handle that and I wasn't sure I had enough resilience. After I sent the message, I had second thoughts about it.

But the truth is I always put on a happy face for him, display an aura of competence and ability to handle things on my own, and talk to him on the phone as if all is just peachy with my life. He's so seldom here, that he doesn't have an opportunity to see my struggles and my difficulties and the obstacles I have to overcome ON MY OWN without the "rock" that he used to be ... all because of his chit. Maybe it wasn't such a bad thing to put that out there and let him realize that my life is no bed of roses, either, but I deal with it.

So after a massive self-pity party, a good cry and a relatively sleepless night, I awoke this morning to H's response to my message.

He said life throws us changes when we least expect it and he wonders what awaits him. He said he didn't know how strong he is either or how to cope/deal with "so much on my side too." Then he said "I know that I will always be there to talk to you ... whenever you need it. I hope the same is true for you." Then he said to breathe and try to find the happiness inside ... that it's not always easy or possible but it's a goal he tries to achieve. Then he said he'd call on Sunday ... that he had his running thing today.

WTF? I'll always be there to talk, but not today because I have to go run with my frat boy friends? I'm there for you but only when it's convenient for me?

And what exactly does he have to cope with? How much liquor to have on hand when his friends drop by "every day?" Whether to have his gf spend the night at his place or if he should spend the night at hers? Whether to spend the day with his biking club or with his cheating, adulterous friend on the golf course? Give me a break!

Things have been good on the business front, but personally, there is so far to go. He does a great job of talking the talk. He needs to walk the walk! Hey buddy ... if you say you're there any time I need to talk, then freaking be there!

Anyway, I'm in this weird state of just wanting to run away from all this crap and that is sandwiched in with digging down for strength and resilience to deal with what life throws at me next while trying to keep in mind that H's brain is scrambled, while trying to be patient and understanding and forgiving. It just seems like too much. I just keep telling myself ... one day at a time ... just put one foot in front of the other.

I did make my appointment at the hair salon this morning. I probably shouldn't have been driving because I felt like my mind was somewhere else. Then I spent the afternoon getting stuff organized for my trip. I just feel guilty about the trip now which totally stinks because I was so looking forward to it. I feel like I should fly out to see my sister, but I so need to just get away and step out of my life for a short while. Am I being a bad person?

So that's the latest. Life stinks.


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Hi 2x, I'm so sorry to hear that your sister is poorly. I hope she starts to pick up soon xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Sotto #2683212 06/05/16 01:59 AM
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2T I'm so very sorry that your sister is poorly again. Has there been any improvement? I cannot imagine how hard this must be for you. Sending you hugs, and thinking of you.

I don't think your message to your H was a setback, under the circumstances no one should blame you for being human. I understand that you are feeling like running away, who wouldn't be in a weird state if they were in your shoes? I was thinking about that myself the other day, if someone told me six months ago my life and mentality would have changes so dramatically I wouldn't believe them. Yet here we are. Dealing with life before was hard, but my H was not a problem, he was a source of strength. Now we need to adjust and lower our expectations further.

I think your H actually feels like he is supportive, and I know it is so hard, but can you try to take it in a positive way? In his MLC brain he is doing his best I guess?

Again, sending you (((hugs))))


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





Esame #2683222 06/05/16 04:49 AM
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I am very sorry to read that your sister is not well and is back in the hospital. She's in good hands while in the hospital and hopefully they can get her back on the road to recovery again. I will keep her in my thoughts and prayers.

As for your message to your h, it was not a setback and you needed to reach out to someone who would be a shoulder to lean on and support you at this time. Unfortunately, your h is in MLC and what he posted back to you is very typical of their "support" while in crisis. I know it may you angry and frustrated, but how can he be supportive to you when he can't even help himself. His response is from La La Land. Take it w/a grain of salt and continue moving forward. I'm sure he'll be there the best way that he can considering his frame of mind. You were expecting more out of him...not happening. Keep those expectations at zero.

We are here for you and will be more than happy to support you any way that we can.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2683292 06/05/16 11:05 AM
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Thank you Sotto, Esame and Job for your thoughts and prayers for my sister. They are going to try a new drug for her, so hopefully that will help.

Sorry for my rant last night. I guess we all need to blow off steam once in a while. Esame, my H was my source of strength as well ... my rock for so many years. Life does get tough when you find yourself flying solo. But H did kind of step up to the plate today.

H called this morning and started with an apology for not calling on Saturday. We ended up talking for over an hour. None was specifically R related and only about 3 minutes were about business. It was very much like the conversation we had when he was here last time. I can't recall the last time we talked that long on the phone about things other than business, so it was very different from that respect.

I honestly expressed some of my inner struggles and he quietly listened. When I was done, he said I have this cycle that is about 2 1/2 months long. He said I do just fine and then something comes along that is like the proverbial straw and I react. He said that if/when I lash out at him that it doesn't get to him ... that he just knows me better than anyone and he accepts who I am and knows I'll work through it. I thanked him for his patience, tolerance and understanding. He just kind of laughed and said I didn't need to thank him for that.

That exchange led to some pretty deep discussions about life, happiness, direction, etc. He made some interesting remarks.

H said neither of us had any real direction right now (and added that my lack of direction was not of my choosing). He said we had always had a direction and/or a goal and that's one of the reasons we had worked so well together ... we were both goal oriented. He said he's no longer looking at the big, grand goals that he used to or like the ones we undertook (and he noted that we succeeded in all our big goals). He said he was now focusing on smaller goals and suggested I do the same. He said maybe that's part of growing older ... shaving back the goals or breaking them down into smaller chunks.

He said he has no idea where he's headed or what the future holds. He said we were "both the same."

Then he said some interesting things about happiness. I referenced his remark about looking inside for happiness and asked him if he found happiness inside, because when I looked inside, there just wasn't anything there ... at least not the sustainable happiness we all want.

He said no and that he didn't have happiness inside. He said he thought about what was the happiest day of his life. He described something we had done on a trip shortly after we started dating and said the surroundings and what we saw were awesome but what made it the happiest day of his life was that I was there. I told him what I considered the happiest day of my life (which involved him) and he said ... see, we're both alike. We derive our happiness from the outside and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just how we are and (again) we're both the same.

He brought up again our past R (pre-MLC) and said he thought our R was a once in a lifetime type of R and we had set the bar too high. He compared our R to Nirvana! I just agreed with him and said perhaps that's why I have no desire to even consider a new relationship because I wouldn't find the kind we had and I didn't want to settle for anything less. He said he didn't want to settle either.

We ended the convo with him telling me to go enjoy my trip. He said not to feel guilty about going while my S is in the hospital. He said I needed a break and he wanted me to go have some fun for myself and I could take care of family when I got back.

I thanked him for being so supportive and for letting me talk. I told him that sometimes stuff just gets backed up in my mind and it has to come out ... I just don't have anyone other than IC to say that kind of stuff to. He said he didn't either and sometimes he just needed to talk as well. I told him to call anytime he liked and he said he "may" take me up on that offer.

So, Job ... is there any significance to recalling our past R so fondly and talking about how great it was and how his happiest day was because I was there? I just wonder because this is 180 degrees from the days when he couldn't find anything at all good to say about anything we had ever done together. I have to admit, it's really nice to hear some of the things he's saying now but I have no idea how that affects or what that may mean for the sitch and where his head is??? I'd appreciate your thoughts, as well as those of anyone else who wants to chime in.


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Your h sounds like he's slowly but surely getting his head screwed on right. He's done a lot of deep thinking and his conversation w/you was very good. He's been reflective of his past and he's admitted that you both had the bar set very high in your goals for life. I find it very interesting that he now is looking at that bar and is lowering it to a more reasonable level.

I think you should listen to what he said and go on your trip. You do need a break and your sister will be in good hands at the hospital. If something should happen, they'll contact you.

I would continue as you have been, i.e., listening and being a friend to your h. I do think he's slowly realizing that life is what you make it and that includes finding the happiness within. I would still continue to keep my expectations near zero I wouldn't change a thing at this time because he still has a ways to go. However, I do see a lot of progress, as to whether it's a moment of clarity or if he's really starting to wake up...time will tell...but I do like how he's communicating w/you.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2683315 06/05/16 12:41 PM
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Thanks, Job. I like the communication as well. The conversations remind of talks we had in the first house we owned. It had a large whirlpool tub and we'd both get in it two or three times a week. We'd talk about anything and everything while the bubble machine did it's thing. Some of these latest conversations remind of those "tub talks" and it's been a really, really long time since we communicated like that. I hope it continues.


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So sorry to hear about your sister. I am thinking of you and wishing her the best.

Those conversations with your h sound great! It sounds like he is figuring things out.

I agree that you should go on your trip. We have to take care of ourselves before we can help others. Let it rejuvenate you so that you can come back 100% refreshed.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
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10/15: H back in dorm room
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HaWho #2683426 06/06/16 02:12 AM
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slow and steady 2x ... you cannot take care of anyone else until you take care of yourself first. go on your trip, heal yourself, then you will be in better shape to help your sister. Sorry for her illness. Right now the doctors are doing their thing, so you go do yours. xoxoxo


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2T I'm so pleased your sister is getting different treatment and medication, I hope it will work for her. How old is she? Is the pneumonia connected to some ongoing health problem or because she is underweight?

Those conversations with your husband sound really positive to me. The fact that he can recall those happy days is so important, I remember a quote that I read that said that "the human brain is Velcro for negative experiences and Tefal for positive ones". I think that's why we all tend to remember more bad stuff, and obviously when it comes to MLC it's so much harder to see the positives.

I agree with your H, enjoy your trip and don't feel any guilt! You deserve time to yourself


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





Esame #2685088 06/12/16 12:25 PM
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The trip was amazing and such a needed get away. I got to cross off some landmarks I hadn't seen and wandered in and out of stores giving my willpower quite a workout, but it held up.

Texted H a couple of times (at his request) to let him know I was okay and texted when I got home. I told him that although I knew we had worked together as a team, I realized that if it weren't for his hard work I never would have been able to take the amazing trip I just did. I told him I wanted him to know I appreciated all the good things in my life that he made happen.

Got a reply yesterday morning saying he was glad I enjoyed the trip and thanking me for what I said. Haven't heard a peep out of him since.

A couple of interesting things happened just before I left.

H continued the conversation we were having about happiness via text later that evening and talked about how he looked for "happy moments" and at the end of the day he would reflect and hopefully the happy moments outnumbered the times he wasn't so happy. He gave me an example of a moment that made him happy and said looking at his day that way was a way to cope.

He said there were many things that were missing that he thought would bring him happiness so he just concentrates on "moments" instead of dwelling on what's missing.

He also said he was glad he had a friend like me who understands him.

One other thing he said on the phone is that sometimes he will decide he wants to go have a beer with a friend and so he'll call someone. He said sometimes he may have to call 5 or 6 people until he comes to someone who is available ... or he'll just go by himself.

I found all that interesting because it shows Job is right about his life not being one big party and there is alone time that he tries to escape.

I also find it interesting that he seems to have stopped looking for that "over-all" happiness and is instead focusing on little things that make him happy "in the moment."

One tidbit about BIL that backfired on him. BIL was made aware of a mistake I had made about a week ago (nothing major, actually) but he took the opportunity to send a group text to me and H about it. I read the text after parking my car at the airport to catch my flight out.

I can't tell you how angry I was because there was no reason to say anything at all to H. It didn't affect his job and he couldn't fix it anyway. I saw it as seizing an opportunity to put me in a bad light and get H riled up with me over something.

H gets angry or short with BIL from time to time (and rightfully so ... BIL says and does dumb stuff sometimes). I assume BIL thought H would do the same to me. It all came across to me as a "gotcha!"

But it backfired. I told H I thought BIL was trying to stir up chit in the hopes H would get angry with me. H's response was that he doesn't get angry or lose his temper with me anymore and hasn't for 2 years. (It's actually been about 9 months since he last snapped at me over something, but I'll let the time thing go). I'm just glad H sees things for what they are.

Still, it was a pretty lousy way to start my trip.

So, tomorrow it's back to the grind at the office and catching up on things. But BIL won't be in for a couple of days. YEAH!


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I'm glad you had a great time away and got some much needed rest. Sometimes we have to take some time for ourselves and do things that are totally different from our day-to-day routine. Now, you are ready to face the week and yes, that BIL.

Oh, yeah! Your BIL wanted to put it to you just as you were leaving for your trip. He wanted to get your h so angry that it would ruin your time away. I'm glad it didn't.

Keep up the good work. BTW, how is your sister doing?


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2685113 06/12/16 03:01 PM
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Oh yes, my sister. I forgot to update her sitch ... maybe because I have no idea what her sitch is.

I've tried to call 3 or 4 times over the last week and it goes to voice mail. I leave messages and get no reply. I've texted at least a half dozen times to check on her and get no response.

I'm working under the assumption that no news is good news. Her H would let me know otherwise.

This is not unusual for her. She's a strange bird and I learned a long time ago that she will get around to me when she's ready.

It really is amazing. If you put the two of us side by side, you'd never know we were sisters. We were both raised in the same house, had the same love from our parents, the same opportunities to lead successful lives and the difference between us today is like day and night.

She totally squandered her opportunities. She dropped out of high school, hooked up with a bad crowd, got into drugs, spent some time in rehab, got her GED but never held onto a decent paying job. She did get a beauticians license, but only did that for about a year before she quit. Unfortunately, my mother was always there to prop her up.

Her H is a saint. I sometimes wonder how he puts up with her.

She developed a lot of resentment toward me because she didn't "have" what I "had" but never really understood that you have to work for what you have ... it rarely just falls into you lap unless you win a lottery or something like that. She has felt for years that life gave her a raw deal and believes I've been the "lucky one."

We've had a strained R for many years, but became closer the last couple of years my Mom was alive. The R is still somewhat strained, although I've put forth a lot of effort to make it a better one. Actually, DBing has helped a lot in that area. But, like a M, it takes two and sometimes she gets her panties in a wad because I'm healthy and she's the sick one.

She doesn't seem to understand that she's led a very unhealthy lifestyle and that may have more to do with where she is than "luck." I have to just wait for her to cycle back to putting some importance on what's left of her family.

In the meantime, I have to assume that her H will let me know if anything happens. But, I'll keep trying to get in touch with her.


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So, shortly after posting that about my sister, I heard from her.

She's still in the hospital, undergoing therapy. When I asked what kind of therapy, she simply said "to walk."

The meds seem to be helping, but she hasn't gained any weight. I'm hoping and praying that she finds the internal fortitude to overcome all this.


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2T, sounds like you had a great trip! Interesting conversation with your H about the happiness. I still feel somewhat responsible for my H’s unhappiness for the last couple of years before the BD. I guess I had my own issue, which I recognize now.

Your BIL is something… I hope this whole thing will NOT escalate and he will not make it even more complicated between you and H. He sounds like a selfish person, or... not so bright, LOL. Good thing that he will not be in the office for a couple of days.

I hope your sister gets better. And I hope she will appreciate your good intentions and the family she has.

Take care 2T.


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2T I'm glad the trip went well. Sorry about your BIL trying to cause you issues and ruining the start of your trip, families really complicate things sometimes don't they?

I hope your sister will continue to get better. Sending you hugs at this difficult time.


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





Esame #2685407 06/13/16 04:41 PM
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Bright ... my IC tells me all the time that you can't "make" someone else happy. Don't beat yourself up. If he was unhappy, he could have voiced that to you and clued you in and enlisted you to help him find his answers. I've come to realize that my H's unhappiness comes from inside him and his unhappiness with the person he is. There's not a dang thing I can do to fix that. I didn't cause it. And neither did you.

As for BIL ... he's not so bright. He tries to cover that up, but it ain't working. One of our managers told me today that he's made remarks about H and I talking. I think BIL thought H checked out (and he did) and all of sudden, H is paying attention. I see it as an ego/power thing. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Esame ... BIL did ruin the beginning of my trip, but once I was on my way, I was good. I was so upset, I took the tram to the wrong terminal and had to backtrack to the right one ... at an airport I know like the back of my hand!

Families do complicate things, but it's worse when they're involved in a business. I just don't see this ending well for H. It was a hair-brained idea to bring BIL on board, but H was so deep in the fog at that time .... This will be one HE has to deal with. I'm staying as far away as I possibly can.

So, now I have to rant so I won't rant at H. Please bear with me.

I talked to H for the first time in a week. He started off apologizing because he "wanted" to call on Sunday to hear about my trip, but the day "got away" from him. I'm calling BS on that. He's like 12 hours different and could have called if he weren't either otherwise engaged or not in a condition to carry on a coherent conversation. Okay, par for the course.

But the kicker is this ... our assistant's sister is getting married. He has long considered our assistant and her sister as something like surrogate daughters.

Anyway, the marriage is arranged and the father set the date for July 10. H was supposed to come back on then 6th. He told me today he changed his flight from the "8th" (hey, I ain't dumb) to come back on the 12th so he could go to this gal's wedding.

I was aware of the wedding and the date via a text he sent while I was in NYC and pretty much expected him to do this, but was hoping he wouldn't. I simply responded to his rescheduling by saying that I figured he'd do that.

So here's my thing. He's missed 4 anniversaries, my last birthday (and behaved like an a$$ for the two prior), 3 Thanksgivings and a host of other "special" occasions the past 3 years. He even flew out of here a week before my mother's funeral. He could have rescheduled his flight to attend my Mom's funeral, but didn't. He had a New Year's Eve bash to attend! But he can reschedule for a wedding for some gal in India who he considers a "surrogate" daughter?

What about the 6 step-grandkids who view him as their favorite grandpa? I'm just disgusted by this behavior.

I am so angry right now. I don't care if I ever see his face again.

I am so tired of being patient and understanding and forgiving.

I would love to have a considerate, devoted and FAITHFUL man to share my life with, but I just don't see him fulfilling that role. I have serious doubts he ever will.

I see signs of him "waking up" but I don't know how much longer I can wait for him to get his head out of his a$$ and be an adult.

So, Job, where do I find that patience? Is this a lost cause? Should I just cash in my chips? I can do that and I know I'll be fine. But, am I cashing in too soon?

Why is this so important to me and why is this more unsettling than OW2? I don't get it.


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"So, Job, where do I find that patience? Is this a lost cause? Should I just cash in my chips? I can do that and I know I'll be fine. But, am I cashing in too soon?"

Where to you find the patience? You dig deeper within your soul. If you have the patience to deal w/your BIL, then you've got more patience to help you w/your h.

Is this a lost cause? "Should I just cash in my chips?" Only you can decide whether to cash in your chips.

Since you are asking these questions, then you aren't ready to toss in the towel. Trust me, you will know when you are done. Anger has a way of discouraging you and that's when I notice you begin to talk of cashing in your chips. Use that anger to spur you on w/a project or push you to do a new hobby, but try not to allow it to sway your thought when it comes to tossing in your chips. You do not want to make any decisions such as this when you are angry, hurt, disgusted or just plain disgruntled. Major decisions need to be made when you are calm and level headed.

I do understand why you are asking these questions now, i.e., because of his attendance at the wedding. Keep in mind, he may not have attended this wedding if it had taken place last year or even six months ago. However, I do sense from your postings that he's starting to wake up a bit and reconnecting. These are very good signs and huge baby steps. Try not to compare what he's doing now to what he didn't do months, even years ago. Depression has a way of distorting things for those in it. Not making excuses...but depression really messes people up in many ways. As they begin to wake up and/or as the depression fog begins to lift, they begin to take an interest in life, people and events once again. So, I'm not surprised that he's starting to take an interest in people and yes, even attending a wedding of someone who isn't related in any way to him. He could go to this wedding and feel comfortable being there. No one was judging him for what he's done and he could just be himself (whether it's the MLC self or the old H). There were no expectations as to how he should behave/interact w/others.

I think the reason his attendance at the wedding is so important to you is because he's missed so many other special events over the last few years and yet, he can attend a wedding whereby the person isn't even related to him. I know that this hurt your feelings and you feel it's not right, but you have to let it go for now. At some point, you might have the opportunity to talk to him about it...but now isn't the time. Why? Because you are hurt and angry and could very well say something that you can't take back. I am going to suggest that you let it go for now until you are calmer. The door of opportunity will open very soon for this discussion.

For now, keep the focus on you and your family.




job #2685468 06/14/16 12:25 AM
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2T, I totally get it about the wedding… I would be angry too. Hell, I’m still angry about my son was not invited to my H’s niece’s weddings, and H not doing anything about it… But… I agree with what job said about the patience… Not sure I would be capable of following the advice myself… All I can think is “you’ve got to be kidding me…” But… all I think is about making a comment, like… “sure H, I can understand that this is the MOST important even in your life! You cannot miss this under any circumstances!!! You absolutely have to be there no matter what!!! There are going to be the most important memories of your life!!! This family needs you as no one else!!!” And then I would leave it at that…

2T, please don’t take this as an advise. Get that patience shovel re-instated! Listen to what job says. Ultimately, it is up to you regarding the final outcome. If you decide that this is not for you (which I keep thinking about in my own sitch), you can do what you want.

Thinking of you…


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job #2685543 06/14/16 07:50 AM
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First off I want to express my sincere gratitude for this forum. It's great to know that I can express my feelings here among those who have walked or are walking this path and know that they understand.

Bright ... I will find that patience shovel!

Job ... Thank you so much for the pep talk. You're right. I shouldn't be comparing what happens today with what happened in the past because things have changed. That wedding thing just stung though. I'll take your advice and let it go.

After posting my rant, I texted H and told him I didn't answer his calls because I was trying to work through some issues and didn't think it was a good time to talk. He just replied ok and he hoped I worked it out and got a good night's sleep. I thanked him for his understanding.

This morning he called the office as usual and immediately asked if he'd done something wrong. I said no and I guess I was just having a post vacation, back to same old grind moment and vaguely referenced stuff at the office. He seemed to accept that.

He said he had set his clock to get up early so he could call me before I went to bed to find out about my trip. That prompted me to say that now I felt bad (and I do). He just said no problem. I told him that was very sweet and it meant a lot to me that he did that. I told him I was sorry I was too self-absorbed to pick up the phone. Then I added that he knows me well and knows I have my moments and at least I didn't invite him to my pity party like I've done in the past. He laughed. So, all good.

After talking a bit about business, he said he'd had the worst weekend of his life. I asked what happened, but he was very vague in his answer and I obviously didn't press. He went on to talk about happiness again and said he's not a happy person (apparently someone there pointed that out to him recently) and although he tries, he just can't "be happy." He said I've tried this and that (naming a couple of things, like meditation), or being happy in the moment, but nothing works. He said what my IC suggested (that he might be depressed) may be valid and he planned to "explore" that. He sounded very down.

I just said I completely understood .... been there. I told him if he ever needed anything from me, just let me know.

I have no clue what's going on over there, but he came across as really struggling. He is a very unhappy man and doesn't seem to be trying to wear that "happy" mask to hide it.

So, again, thank you everyone for putting up with my pity party. I'm so glad I could get all that venom out here and not add to H's issues because he seems somewhat fragile at the moment.


Me: 59 and holding
H: :53
Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown
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T: 23
BD: 9-23-2013
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(((Hugs 2T)))

I think you are struggling with the wedding because it shows how misplaced his loyalties and priorities are. Also anything that H does that affects MY kids hurts me more than anything he does to me. That night that I asked him to leave I couldn't live with myself not because I would miss him, but because I would not be the person that allowed him to hurt our kids. Your H's behaviour has impacted on your family, don't you think that could be the reason why this wedding bothers you? In a way other women threaten your relationship with H, but this surrogate daughter being a priority hurts your grandkids. That's how I see it, sorry if I'm miles out.

As job said, you need to let go of that (as well as everything else you've already let go off). Maybe even see it as mildly positive in the sense that it means he might be coming out of his fog?


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





Esame #2686111 06/16/16 10:02 AM
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Thanks, Esame. I've managed to let go of it. There's nothing I can do to change it anyway. It's true, isn't it? We do have to let go of a lot.

Talked to H a short while ago. There is definitely something going on over there and/or with him. He called in later than usual and was very short, snapped at me over something trivial and was in a really awful mood. He hasn't been like that with me on the phone for quite a while. It didn't make sense to me because we had just sent some very positive feedback to him about a project he's been working on.

After he snapped at me, he started complaining because he needed a beer and couldn't find his opener and left the phone for a minute. By the time he came back, I had gone into STFU mode and just replied to him when necessary. I guess he picked up on that and the difference in my usually pleasant phone voice with him. He apologized, saying he'd had a very frustrating day and he didn't mean to take it out on me.

I replied that everyone has off days and he knows I have them too, so I understand and then I went into "friend" mode. He started to soften and by the end of the conversation he seemed to have calmed down some.

I have no clue what's going on over there but it's obvious something is eating at him big time. He keeps talking about frustrating days, the "worst weekend of my life," and happiness issues but gives no details and I have no intention of asking. Whatever it is, he'll tell me when he wants me to know .... if he wants me to know. And if he does spill the beans, I hope I'm ready to handle whatever it is.

Quite puzzling but, again, out of my control.

Just made my reservation to see Me Before You this weekend. Hope it's enjoyable.

Oh, and my big accomplishment. The Internet went out at the house and after determining that it wasn't a problem with our service, I figured out the issue and fixed it myself. I was so proud of myself last night. It felt really, really good!


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Congrats on becoming your own tech support and fixing your internet! Another milestone in the "I don't need a man, I'm independent" quest!

There is no way for you to discover what's happening on his head (or his life). I wish there was, I would love an insight in the MLC brain..

Have a lovely weekend!


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





Esame #2686374 06/17/16 12:32 PM
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You're right, Esame. No way to know what's going on unless he chooses to tell me, but I learned to accept that a long time ago. I will say this, though. Job is right. If you remain quiet and just listen carefully, you learn a lot.

He did send a text overnight with an apology and apologized to me again on the phone.

I'm just happy that he realized what he was doing WHILE he was doing it (without me saying anything about it), stopped and got control. And, of course, that he followed up with an apology. He's come a long way since the monster days. He still has moments (obviously), but interaction with him has been much more peaceful and pleasant lately.

I just wish he felt safe enough to talk to me about whatever is going on with him, but no way would I push that. Maybe one day he will. Who knows?


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My heart is breaking tonight.

I got a call from my D and she thinks her H46 is having an EA if not a PA with an OW.

She said that two weeks ago he was telling her much she meant to him and then he totally turned, telling her he wanted a "break" from the marriage, saying he wanted to "live as roommates" and angrily pointing out all the "bad" things she had done to him going back years.

It just broke my heart. She is partially handicapped and has been the primary breadwinner for many years. He hasn't had a "job" in over 10 years, always coming up with get rich fast plans that don't pan out or end of costing them money.

Apparently they've had some very vocal fights that her 4 kids have overheard while he ranted and spewed all his venom at her.

My SIL is a POS and always has been. I despise him. But, he was my D's H and the father of my grandkids, so I put a smile on my face and tolerated him. But now?

My D is perfectly capable of taking care of herself and her kids, but her handicap makes it so much more difficult.


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I hit submit accidentally ...

This guy ... my SIL ... is the one person my H always brings up when he is talking "around" coming home and mending fences. It's as if facing SIL is his biggest fence to hurdle.

And my SIL is the one who has been the most unforgiving ... cutting off his kids from H (and me, to some extent ... he told my D he didn't understand why I even talked to H). SIL even went so far as to tell my GD17 that her Grandpa had cheated on Grandma (just found that out today). And now, he's doing the same chit to my D.

I can't say that this is totally surprising, but I definitely didn't want this for my D.


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So ... do I say anything about all this to H? There's always been this "competition" between H and SIL and this would give H "validation" in some respects ... that SIL is not better or more "pure" than H ... that SIL's "high road" is not so high.

What do I do?


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I don't want anyone to misunderstand my posts.

I know how to support my D and how to lead her to resources that will help her. I just don't know how to deal with this as far as H goes.

I feel like all of a sudden I have two crises that are inter-related to some extent and don't quite know how to deal with that.

How do I do what is best for my D


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I don't want anyone to misunderstand my posts.

I know how to support my D and how to lead her to resources that will help her. I just don't know how to deal with this as far as H goes.

I feel like all of a sudden I have two crises that are inter-related to some extent and don't quite know how to deal with that.

How do I do what is best for my D


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Okay, I did it again ... dang cell phones!

How do I do what is best for my D and for me when her H seems to big a part of H's issues about rebuilding here?

Obviously I want what is best for both of us.


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2T, I, so sorry to hear about your D’s situation. It does sound like her H might be having a MLC. I’m sorry you have to deal with two crises. I would not do anything right now, in terms of telling your H about this. Unless he asks. And then I would just tell him the basic facts without going into the details. Give this news a few day to settle down in your head, and then I think you will know better what to do and how to approach it.

Thinking of you, 2T.


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Oh 2T, I'm so sorry to hear that. I think the best thing you can do is be there for her, listen and love her and respect and support whatever she wants to do. Xx


T 13 M 7
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SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Sotto #2686640 06/19/16 08:59 AM
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Thank you, Sotto and Bright. As a parent all you want is for your children to be happy. It's hard to see them in pain, especially when you know from personal experience what they're going through.

While having coffee this morning I started thinking about all that's going on. My H is halfway around the world in a MLC, my S's health is failing, my MIL's health is failing and now my D is going through painful times and there's not a thing I can do to fix any of it. Throw in the frustrations with BIL as icing on the cake.

I thought about how I would have reacted to so much at one time a couple of years ago and realized how strong I've become. Two years ago I would have thought I was carrying the weight of the world on my shoulders. I would have felt like I just couldn't take anything more. I would have felt overwhelmed and completely helpless and hopeless ... at a loss as to how to help or what to do.

But I've learned on my journey that I can't fix things that are beyond my control. I can be empathetic and supportive when those in pain call on me, but I can't "solve" any of it. All I can do is turn it all over to God and trust that He is taking care of those that I love.

It was a strange feeling of relief and peace. A feeling that I had a role to play in all my loved ones lives, but the burden of "fixing" things was not my burden. God has not called on me to take on more than I can handle. My role is one I can handle ... support, love, understanding and just being there to listen.

On the MLC front, H called this morning. This is a baby step I opened the door for a few weeks ago and was hoping he'd walk through. I wanted him to feel free to call here on the weekend without my prompting or asking him to do so. He did that this morning. We had a pleasant chat about this and that with very little business stuff mentioned.

He did mention his recent difficulties (in general, no specifics) and apologized again for his foul mood last week. He said the week had been awful even though he had good news on many fronts. He again started talking about finding happiness and couldn't understand why he was so unhappy with good things going on around him. He spoke about a book he's reading that he says is helping him and suggested I read it. (I will.) He seemed to be in a better, more settled mood.

One thing I got from this and other recent conversations is that he is beginning to look inside for the happiness he seeks, so I suppose that's a positive thing at this point.

One thing that I've wondered about is that what he called the "worst weekend of my life" was the weekend after my trip (last weekend). Then he said the whole week was bad and he was really down.

I wonder if my trip had anything to do with his mood? IDK. Could be just a coincidence.

A few things he said seemed to be "hints" or "fishing." He mentioned he hated staying with his parents when he was here. I suppose that was supposed to be my cue to tell him he could stay here. I wouldn't be adverse to that since it would only be sporadic for now and might be a good test to see if we can even stay in the same house together again. But he will have to ask. I will not volunteer. If he asks, it will be because he has made that decision on his own without any kind of pressure from me.

The second thing ... he mentioned for the second time that he may fly to Vegas for a weekend while he's here next time. I wondered if that is my cue to ask to join him? I won't ask. He'll have to do the asking.

He also mentioned some short trips he wanted to take and named the places saying "places you don't want to go." Another feeler??

This is the hard part for me right now. I want to let him know I would be open to some of the things he's hinting about, but I'm not going to take the lead or pursue him. He's got to come right out and ask for what he wants. So far I've avoided shooting down anything he's hinted at and tried to just remain neutral and non-committal either way.

Hope everyone is having a pleasant weekend.

2T


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About your daughter - have you asked HER whether she wants you to tell her dad? I think it should be her call.

I know when my ex first had an affair, I didn't share this information with my family. We reconciled and I knew they would never have accepted him if they had known he cheated on me. Only your D knows whether she wants her dad to know right now, and whether she wants you to tell him or wants to tell him herself.

As for the SIL - your daughter needs to consult with an attorney and figure out how to protect herself financially if needed. Since she is the primary breadwinner, it's conceivable that her H could get alimony. Also conceivable that he could claim to be the primary caregiver, get primary custody of the kids and make her pay child support as well! So she needs to be very strategic about any choices she makes. Whatever would encourage him to get a paying job ( so that she won't have to pay alimony), what precedents are set about residency and child visitation etc. This could be very complicated and some good advice from an attorney now could prevent her from making decisions that will hurt her financially in the future.

kml #2686675 06/19/16 02:08 PM
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Good point, KML. My H is her step-dad, but they were very close. Before H started his journey, she would often consult him about things she needed a man's opinion about.

I'm going to keep this to myself.

And thanks for the advice about attorneys. My D is a sharp cookie and this isn't the first time they've had issues. I know she's taken those steps before, so I'm sure she will again, but I'll definitely say something.

Right now she's in shock and she's frightened. She has severe back issues as a result of scoliosis and is in constant pain. She's had two surgeries and is under the care of a pain management doctor. Still, she manages to go into her office everyday and run her company. Otherwise, she is not very active and spends a lot of time in bed. She's a real trooper and has supported her family very well in spite of her condition. I honestly don't know how she does it.

I really wish I could send her here, but I find myself in a position of not wanting her to see what I've been posting and knowing the details I've put on the boards about my sitch. frown But, I gave her some good resources, so hopefully she'll gain some insight from those. And, of course, I can pass along all I've learned.


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2t I'm so sorry about your D's situation. You know from bitter experience there is no easy way out, my advice would be to let her know you are there for her and support her every step of the way. Exactly what you are doing now, continue loving her and believing in her. I couldn't bring myself to tell my mum about H's MLC, at first because I didn't want her to have a bad opinion about him, and lately because she wouldn't be able to handle it. You are doing an awesome job keeping it all together, just remember to take care of yourself too.

Huge hugs 2T, I hope things will start improving soon x


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





Esame #2688958 07/03/16 02:17 PM
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I have a question I'd like to pose.

In a previous post I indicated I would consider allowing H to stay at my (our) place instead of at his parents when he comes back IF he asked (I would never volunteer that).

My IC thinks I should tell him he has to get rid of the OW before he can stay in my home.

I can see her point and I think she's trying to look out for my mental and emotional well-being. But it sounds like an ultimatum and pressure.

Thoughts?


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My question to you is this. If he should ask to stay in your home, would he use the guest bedroom, sleep w/you or on the couch? Unless he asks to stay, I wouldn't worry about it too much. He may toss out hints, but you would need to decide if this is something you and only you want to do. How would you feel about him staying in your home? Would you feel okay w/it?

You've made some great progress in the communication/interaction arena w/him in just the last few months. I do not think I would say anything about getting rid of the OW if he were to ask about staying in your home during his visits. It would definitely come across as an ultimatum and pressure on him to do something.

My thoughts? I wouldn't say a word and I would continue to remain silent where the hints are concerned. He can always stay w/his parents or w/his brother. But, again, it is up to you just how you want to play this card.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2688965 07/03/16 03:44 PM
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Thanks, Job. He'd stay in the guest room. We haven't slept in the same bed for nearly 3 years. I think I'd be okay with him staying here mostly because I've been on my own for so long that I don't know if I could live with someone again and want to figure that out. It would also give me an opportunity to get a better gauge on where his head is.

He did give me a baby step this weekend. He called this morning without any kind of prompting from me. He told me on our "office call" on Friday that he might call on Sunday and I replied that I'd love that. He called.

But I think he lied about his plans for his evening. I know his pattern and I texted something related to our phone convo and didn't get a quick answer. Not the usual for "staying home on my own" behavior. Who knows.

H will be back in about 10 days.

As for me, I haven't posted in a while. My son and his family were here last weekend. The grandkids wore me out. My S did some grilling for all of us and fixed one of my favorite appetizers. It was a treat for me.

I finished up my laser facials a couple of weeks ago and am pleased with the results. The esthitician (spelling?) wants me to do the needling thing next. I don't know much about that process so will check into it. I have to admit it's really nice to hear people you haven't seen in a while say you look great.

Last night was girl's out night to see "Tarzan." All of us are big Alexander Skaarsgard fans, so we were anxious to see him play Tarzan. Lots of fun.

BIL was off half of last week and most of next week. YEAH! A whole different dynamic at the office. I think H is beginning to see the problems there. When he was here last time he said he understood what I've been trying to tell him and recently asked my opinion about BIL's performance. I gave it to him but made sure to preface it with a disclaimer that I found it hard to objectively critique him because he isn't a "normal" employee.

My sister is home and is having issues with her H. She wanted me to be her health advocate because she didn't like what her H was saying about putting her in a nursing home because one of her many doctors said she needed to do that(she doesn't need that). I have some concerns about the Dr. as he told my BIL exactly what "home" she needed to be in. I'm thinking kick-backs. I feel for her and want to do what I can, but there is no way I want to between her and her H. We'll see how that goes.

MIL is doing well but is reluctant to get out of bed. I think she's afraid of falling again and just wants to "feel" safe.

I haven't heard from my D in the past week, but she's read the material I guided her to. SIL posted of bunch of pics of the possible OW on facebook and gave her some "innocent" excuse about it. She didn't buy it.

My S and DIL saw the pics and brought it up when they were here. I didn't violate my Ds confidence, but they have it figured out.

KML, my Ds kids are all teenagers or preteens. I think that given custody issues, they would be able to say who they prefer to live with and the court would take that into account. I could be wrong. In any case, none of them would choose to live with my SIL. He's a hothead and has an extremely short fuse. They walk on eggshells with him. And I don't think he would want custody ... maybe visitation, but not custody.

So that's my latest in a nutshell.

Hope everyone is having a great 4th!

2T


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2X2Many - my view is probably skewed by my up close and personal view of MLC, but, I would not bring up him ending it with OW because how will you even know if what he tells you is true? So, why bother?

You probably need to prepare for two possible options: responses for his complaints about his parents' place and for him asking outright to stay there.

Nice to hear an update and have a great 4th!


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2689004 07/04/16 01:42 AM
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2T it sounds like you've had a few busy days, and that you still have a lot on your plate! It must have been lovely harping family around though! I feel so lonely some times here, so I cannot wait to go to my mum's next week for the summer holidays!

I would also be weary of the Dr that advised to put your sister at a home, she is far too young for that! Something like a home could take a toll at her health by affecting her mentality and making her see the situation as hopeless, why would they suggest such a thing?

I'm pleased you are still making time for your treatments and facials, now more than ever you need to do things just for you and take care of yourself.


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





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I'm glad to read that your son and his family were in for a visit and all of you had a great time. I'm sure things in the office are far more peaceful and less stressful w/the BIL gone. Maybe he'll opt to quit and find something else while he's gone. (One can hope.)

I'm sorry to read that one of your sister's doctors is kind of pushing for a nursing home. If she's able to do some things for herself, she may not need a nursing home...but maybe someone to come in and check on her during the day. That is something to think about when she's ready to do so. Some doctors are entirely too quick to talk up nursing homes and it does make you wonder if they get kickbacks and especially when they give you the name of one specific place.

Your D will contact you when she's ready. She's got a lot going on right now and her focus is on her situation. You might want to drop her a note today to see how she's doing, etc., but stay away from the situation...allow her to come to you to discuss it when she's ready.

Try to enjoy the holiday today. You've got a lot swirling around you, but it's a day of rest, fun and celebration.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Job, BIL didn't find something else and was back in the office on Friday. frown It was so pleasant while he was gone and such a downer when he came back.

I haven't heard anything from my sister or my D. I agree that I should wait until my D contacts me. I've never been one to interfere with my kids lives and don't intend to start now. When she needs me, she'll call.

As for my S, I haven't heard a peep out of her other than a couple of brief texts since she called me about being her health advocate. She said she was going to call a couple of days ago, but hasn't. I've texted a couple of times since she was supposed to call, but she's a strange one. For all I know, she's angry with me for not wanting to be the advocate. She'll get back to me when she's ready.

As for me, I'm preparing for H to return in a few days. Last time I was in a really great place emotionally and mentally. This time, not so much. I feel like it's going to take some effort this time. I sort of feel unsure and less "strong" for lack of a better way to put it.

I'm ready to answer the D thing if it comes up. I'm just going to tell him if that's what he wants I won't stand in his way, but I'm not going to do it for him. And I've given a lot of thought to what I want by way of a settlement and although it would be infinitely fair, he won't like it. If I exit the M, I exit the business and he does not want that. Staying involved with the business after a D would benefit my financial health, but would be detrimental to my mental and emotional health. In the long run, there are things that are more important to me than continuing to pad my bank account and I'll be just fine, even with the loss of that income. Anyway, I'm prepared for that discussion.

I suppose I'm feeling unsure of myself because I don't know "who" is coming home. I've gone back through my old posts and there were some positive things happening. The last time he was here, I felt like we were connecting. That seemed to continue for a while via telephone and then kind of slacked off and I didn't "feel" the connection (or the beginnings of it) anymore. The depth seemed to fade away, which I suppose is only natural given the time and distance factor.

I also know he's become aware of a lot of BIL's shortcomings since he was here last and I don't know how he plans to deal with that. At least his awareness didn't come about solely because of me. BIL has made some big boo-boo's that he couldn't hide from H (or me).

I know he's been doing a lot "soul searching" and I have no idea where that has led. I also know he's still looking for happiness and I don't know where that search has or is leading him. I don't know what role, if any, the new OW may be playing in helping him find happiness. (I would be so happy to hear that the "worst weekend of his life" was because of her! One can hope, right?)

I just feel so "in the dark" about the whole sitch. It's kind of unnerving. It was easier when he was in big time replay and I knew he was. I just kind of expected craziness. Now, there's still replay there, but there also seems to be some awareness of what he's done to his life (and mine). I'm not sure how to handle it all. Uncharted waters.

I think I may be in need of some "pep" talk and would sincerely welcome it from anyone who wishes to chime in.

I hope everyone is having a great weekend.

{{{Hugs}}} to everyone.

2T


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I understand where you are coming from because you don't know who will walk thru that door this time. It could be the MLCer who is detached again or it could be the MLCer would wants to catch up and be friendly. Unfortunately, thinking about it will not help you. I suggest that you do something nice for yourself today, maybe a nice drive or spend time in your flower garden.

As for the divorce coming up, I think you are more than ready to lay it all out for your h and that will surprise him, i.e., especially when you tell him that the cutting of the ties will also involve the business. I agree, it would be best to separate it all because it would be in your face day in and day out if you continued working for the business.

You are so right, when your D and S need you, they will contact you. There's no point, at this time, to contact them. They both have a lot on their plates and they need to work on those things a bit for themselves. They know you are there and will support them any way that you can.

For today, turn the focus on to you. Try to enjoy your day and definitely find something that will make you smile. You've been carrying a heavy load for quite some time and you do need a break and today is that day for a break.

Hang in there!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2690202 07/11/16 06:32 PM
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2X2Many - There is no way to know which h is coming for the visit. Any, who knows, you may even see various personalities make a cameo! My advice is, don't focus on it because you have no control over this piece anyway. If you are expecting him to bring up the r, he'll probably be coming to discuss his newest favorite flavor of potato chips. MLC is just not predictable, at least not over here!!!

It sounds like you are well prepared on various issues, should h raise those. I think that's the best you can do.

As for a pep talk-you DEFINITELY have this! You are a well tempered and patient person! If any surprise conversations are raised, just remember, silence is a good, near and dear friend to you. This way, you can step away and process later.

Last bit of advice: try to do something to reduce anxiety!!

Thinking of you . . .


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2690315 07/12/16 12:31 PM
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Thank you, Job and HaWho for your supportive words. I don't know what I'd do without this forum and the people here who are so kind and understanding.

Job, I did finally hear from my D. She said she found the material I referred her to very helpful and she put things into action right away. She said the sitch has improved greatly and the fighting has stopped. She added that she wasn't letting her guard down, but would take things day by day. She's a smart cookie ... but then I'm a little biased. smile

HaWho, I have a supply of duct tape on hand and intend to put it to use AND I could get a lot of insight while H is here.

A couple of weeks ago H said he'd read the Art of Happiness, was going to read it a second time and suggested I read it, too. I did and mentioned to H a couple of days ago that I had finished the book.

H got excited and wanted to know what I thought about it. I replied that I got a lot out of it. H said he did too and it had helped him a lot. I didn't want to get into a long discussion about a book on the phone and simply told him we could discuss our impressions about it when he got back. He seemed eager to do that.

So, I've read the book. I know what's in it. H wants to share his thoughts about it. I should be able to get a pretty good gauge on where his head is when I hear how he interprets what he read. Hence ... lots of duct tape and lots of listening.

I'm in a much better place now than I was a few days ago. I always get antsy before H comes back because for so long, I would get hammered or blindsided by something while he was here. I reached a point where I would spend days trying to think of every possible hurtful thing he could say and/or do while he was here so I'd be "prepared." I suppose it became like a PTSD thing with me.

I think I've reached a point that there's not much he could say or do that I haven't already processed and am prepared for, although you never know.

I suppose I've been antsy this time because I sensed a change in the dynamic between us last time he was here. It seemed that I was no longer the enemy and he was starting to open up a tiny bit and I want that to continue and not screw it up if that's the case.

On the other hand, I want to be able to stand strong and maintain my focus if he's reverted back to his aloofness and detachment.

And, of course, there's OW2 and curiosity about where that sitch stands. No worries though. I have no intention of bringing that up.

But, I'm good. I spent some time reminding myself that there are things that are just out of my control and I need to concentrate on the one thing I CAN control and that's me.

My confidence in myself is high and my expectations of him are near zero. I'll be fine. smile

My best to everyone.

2T


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M: 19
T: 23
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H came back on Wednesday and we haven't had any interaction outside the office, but I am stunned at what I'm seeing.

H is like the old H in the office. He's smiling and joking around with the employees like he used to do. And, they are responding and joking right back. His demeanor towards them is kind, understanding, fun and not at all like the monster he was a year or two ago. It's like night and day. It's the old "boss" - the approachable boss.

As for me, he's been pleasant and friendly. If I walk into his office, he smiles and kind of "lights up" and the smile is a genuine one ... not the fake smile he can give me that isn't sincere. Today, he gave me a silly card that hit the mark and made me laugh.

I am astonished.

He seems relaxed and comfortable. That's a far cry from when he said he felt like a cat in a room full of rocking chairs when he was in the office.

There's an issue that's come up between his parents that BIL should be doing more for, but has apparently left it to H. He's handling it beautifully and it's not an easy task.

It's so refreshing to see and I'm so happy for him. He has been a tormented man for so long and I'm so glad to see him in a calmer state of mind.

I've pretty much just gone about my business as usual at the office, remaining friendly, but business-like, I suppose. I don't feel the "need" to do "something" and that has helped me remain calm, as well.

A couple of notes ...

He ordered some parts to make a minor repair (not operational) on my SUV that's been an issue for a while and plans to take care of that. I didn't ask.

He booked his next trip back and will be here for my birthday, which he missed last year (and I didn't behave well in response). He pointed out to me that he'd be here for my birthday.

He mentioned something about needing a manicure (yes, he does that now). I told him I was planning to go to the nail salon on Saturday and he could tag along if he wanted. So he's doing that with me. He'll be getting his first pedicure after I assured him that I see men in there all the time getting pedicures. It should be fun. His feet are extremely ticklish. He may never do it again!

He asked me about going out to dinner that night and I agreed. Just now, he texted that his parents invited us to go to dinner with them that night and he said he told them he and I were planning to go to dinner. He asked what I wanted to do. I replied it didn't matter to me and I'd leave it up to him. He said he'd rather just the two of us go and I replied I'd like that.

BUT I realize that could be a good thing or a bad thing. I may hear some things I don't like over dinner. I suppose I'll find out tomorrow night. So far the only negative thing I've heard is his plan to renew his lease over there. That was not unexpected. He's still baking.

My bottom line is that he seems to be finding his way and I'm happy for him.

I have no idea what that means for our R or our M. He still has a ways to go. But I know I'll be okay regardless. It's just so nice to see glimpses of old H.

I'm smiling.

Hope everyone has a great weekend.

2T


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2X2Many - your post made me smile! See, it goes to show, you never know what to expect.

Enjoy the good moments! Cheering you on!


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2690874 07/16/16 06:05 AM
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I'm glad he's doing so much better this time around. Maybe he's waking up a bit and starting to feel better about his life and himself. No matter what the reason, enjoy the time you spend w/him...but keep those expectations at zero.

Enjoy the weekend!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2690911 07/16/16 05:59 PM
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Thanks, Job. My expectations are near zero. He cancelled out on the trip to the nail salon and I was just fine with that. Not that I didn't want him to go ... it just didn't make a difference to me and didn't stop me from indulging a bit.

He came over later in the afternoon and then we went to dinner. We talked about the book we both read and he said it had helped him a lot. I remarked that he seemed to be a good place and he said he was trying to just be happy with who he is and that he is much calmer now. I said that I was happy for him and said he seemed to be a very angry man for a while. (Maybe I shouldn't have said that!) But he acknowledged, saying he still has his moments, but on the whole he doesn't "lose it" anymore.

We talked a bit about BIL and he said I could vent to him anytime about BIL. I said tried to not to do that because I didn't want to sound like a nag and felt like he was sick of hearing me on that subject. He said, no, that he learns a lot about what's going on here when I vent. Still, I am trying to keep a lid on that and will continue to do so.

He asked me if I had done any thinking about the future. I assumed he was alluding to my thoughts about how to settle things in a D. I just said I hadn't given a lot of thought to it and that I was just marching in place at the moment. He dropped the subject and the D word did not come out of his mouth or mine. There was really no talk about the future other than I'm testing out living without the income from the business. I explained that I would have to do that some day and needed to figure out if I could do that where I'm living now.

He did talk about some of the daily stuff he does over there and added again ... it fills the time.

We talked about my trip to NYC and I remarked that I had a great time but the night after I got home was kind of a downer because I wanted to talk about my adventure, but there was no one here to talk to. It was a round-about way of saying I missed having him here, I suppose. He immediately perked up and smiled and it wasn't my impression that it was a vindictive type smile, but one of hearing something he wanted to hear. I could be wrong. Only time will tell I guess. He finally said that if I wanted to talk about an adventure, just let him know and he'll make time to listen.

Conversation was a little awkward at times ... long silences ... but I tried to fill the void with small talk and chit chat. I have come to recognize when he has something on his mind and is reluctant to bring it up and saw it again. He seemed uncomfortable and acted as though he had something he wanted to say but was holding back. I didn't push. If that's the case, he'll open up when he's ready ... good or bad.

The most awkward moment came when the subject of what it's like for him to stay at his parent's house came up. He ticked off what he didn't like there that was available here and he looked at me as though he was waiting for me to tell him it's okay to stay here. Very awkward moment. I'm sitting there thinking, "Ask. All you have to do is ask! The door is wide open. Just walk through it." But he didn't. I could see the thought going through his mind, but the words didn't come out.

It's kind of funny ... I feel like he opened a door for me to ask him back and I opened a door for him to ask to come back and neither of us walked through a door. It seems to me that both of us want the same thing and neither of us is brave enough to take the first step. It's like we're at a stalemate with him wanting to stay here but afraid I'll say no and me wanting him to ask to stay here (because he wants to be here with me and not because I offer a more comfortable "hotel" or better tv). I want him to ask to stay here, but for the right reasons. This one really has me stumped. So frustrating!

I suppose he's still unsure of me and where I stand on things. I definitely felt like he was putting out feelers. Very difficult to let him know I'm open to R while still letting him know I'll be okay if that doesn't happen. How do I show I want him back without seeming anxious or pushing?

This is so hard and I just keep telling myself to be patient and give him space and time. This stinks!

Overall, a pleasant afternoon and evening, but not without frustrations.


Me: 59 and holding
H: :53
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M: 19
T: 23
BD: 9-23-2013
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Your h has been hinting quite strongly about staying at your place. He's actually afraid to come right out and ask because he fears that you will reject the idea. So, why not just say "h, if you would feel more comfortable staying at my place, you are more than welcome to do so". Put the burden on him to decide whether to come over or not. Sometimes, we have to open the door a bit more than just "ajar" in order for them to step over the threshold. Dancing around the subject by both parties will only frustrate both of you and this issue won't get resolved any time soon unless someone takes the first step, so make the suggestion and then table it.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2691006 07/17/16 04:29 PM
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Well, Job, I took your advice. I had dinner with H and his parents tonight and when he walked me to my car to leave, he started talking about how difficult things are again. I told him I was aware of that and if he thought he would be more comfortable staying with me he was welcome to do that.

He immediately said no. He said he appreciated the offer, but he didn't need to do that. He said if in the manner of saying no to a friend that offered to do something for you and you politely refused so as not inconvenience them.

So that's where that stands. I made the offer. The balls in his court and what happens from here is entirely up to him.

He did reach over during dinner, patted and then squeezed my thigh and smiled. It's not much, but it's been like forever since he reached out to touch me, so I guess my cooties aren't as intimidating as they have been for a while.

He's come a long way, but he still has a ways to go. As he dropped me off last night, he didn't come in and said he was going back to his parent's house and get in bed to nurse the cold he has. Tonight he told me some friends of his from over there (who are in town for some kind of trade show) called at 9:30pm and wanted him to meet them for drinks. So he got out of bed, got dressed and went. Hmmm.

I'm looking forward to a two day week at the office. I have three days off going into the weekend and am just looking forward to sleeping late and doing my thing for 5 days straight. I offered to cook one of H's favorite meals one night and he's taking me to a movie on Friday. He will be here to repair my car at some point, but other than that, my time is mine to do with as I please and I'm looking forward to it.

My best to everyone.

2T


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M: 19
T: 23
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Interesting morning.

While having dinner last night, H's friend called him to say their flight had been cancelled.

This morning I get a text from H saying he didn't sleep well and wouldn't be in the office until after lunch because he wanted to get some more sleep. (He's had a cold, but it's not that bad.)

So, did he go out partying again? And the other question that keeps going through my mind is whether or not one of these friends is the or an OW?

The duct tape is firmly in place and the wall that was softening is firmly back in place.

Ugh!


Me: 59 and holding
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I'm glad you offered a place to stay, but wasn't surprised he said no. By offering a place, it let him know that you were listening and had some empathy for him. Now, it's in his court and he very well may continue to stay w/his parents when he comes to town.

As for him not sleeping well last night...it could be that he tossed and turned thinking about his situation and what he's going to do. He could very well have taken some OTC meds and have made him sleepy as well...but time will tell.

Continue as you have been. Yes, he's waking up just a wee bit, but he still has a ways to go. Keep up the good work.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2691215 07/18/16 05:00 PM
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Well, maybe the good work has been put on the shelf. I ripped off the duct tape.

As I said, H sent a text this morning that he had a bad night and was going to sleep in. I didn't fully buy that, but I figured I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. When BIL and a couple of employees asked where he was, I told them what he told me ... he was sick, had a bad night and wanted to get some sleep before coming to the office.

Job, it is so true ... just sit silently by and so much will be revealed to you.

About mid-morning BIL comes to me and says he just talked to H's Dad and asked that H bring something to the office and his Dad answered that H is not at the house ... he left early in the morning. He proceeds to say H left last night to help his friends get settled in a hotel and help them reschedule some cancelled flights. BIL inquired further ... did H spend the night downtown or come back to the house. FIL said he came home. BIL expressed his surprise to me about the lie about being home in bed.

Then H comes in around 2pm and proceeds to tell me how sick he was and his fever broke (he asked me several times last night to feel his forehead and did he have a fever ... uh, no) and he finally felt better ... blah, blah, blah. He went on and on about he woke up in a bed of sweat and how horrible the night was and the fever finally broke and he just needed to get some sleep. Total and complete lying to my face!

I left the duct tape in place and kept my mouth shut.

Then toward the end of the day, he said he wanted to come by the house after work so we could talk. At the house, he started talking about BIL and some of the stuff BIL had whined to him about. It ruffled my feathers and I was already in a bad mood from the lying stuff.

As the conversation continued, he began to come down on me about my responses to BIL's stuff.

I finally said I was sorry ... that I was in a bad mood today. He asked why.

Then the duct tape came off. I prefaced it with saying what he did in his life was his business and I didn't care. Then I called him out on his lying. I didn't accuse him of lying ... just told him what I knew. He started coming up with excuses and tried to make me out to be the unreasonable one.

He said he didn't know he had to be accountable to me and maybe he should have texted me about this and that ... absurd minute by minute stuff. I said no, he had no obligation to be accountable to me, but I felt like he misled me and I didn't understand why. He said he left the house at 9:30 and "ran some errands" before coming in and didn't think he had to check in with me. He said FIL must have been busy taking care of MIL and wasn't aware of when he left.

I wanted to ask what errands, but I didn't. I know.

I said I thought we had reached a point where we could be open with one another, but I felt like he misled me about why he was late and didn't understand why he felt the need to do that.

More excuses and more attempts to shift the issue to my "unreasonableness." I refused to let him do that. He finally said he wasn't "having fun" (I'm sure getting busted for lies is not fun) and left. I let him go.

I know that lying is part and parcel of MLC, but at this point I have no intention of letting him just blatantly lie to me. I just can't do it.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that was the worst thing I could have done at this point. IDK. I can understand lying about an affair and things like that. I can't understand lying about stupid stuff like taking care of friends in need. (That is the reason I wonder just who this gal is.) I don't think I've ever given him any reason to lie about something like that. Maybe in his eyes, I have. Who knows.

But the lying stuff .... if we are ever going to R and live together again, he has to understand that I won't put up with that. If he wants to continue to lie to me and/or mislead me, I don't want him back. In my mind, without honesty, there is no possibility of a relationship ... on any level.

Anyway, that's been my day. A total bust in DBing world, but what I need to maintain my self-respect.

If you add to that his behavior last night when we went to dinner with his parents? It was big time reply and somewhat embarrassing.

No, no, no. That's not the guy I want in my life.

I fully expect him to change his flights to leave in a day or two. I won't be disappointed. He needs a lot more baking time.


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Quote:
I won't put up with that
Quote:
A total bust in DBing world, but what I need to maintain my self-respect
I don't post often, but caught your post. From my perspective, I'd say you may have missed the part about DB and MLC and how that works. I'd also venture that you have a boundary and you made it clear. You need to stick to it, come hell or high water, just so you know. You can't go back and forth; that'd be worse than anything.

Cut yourself some slack, 2. You are going through tough times and if not tolerating being lied to is the worst thing you do? Well, that's totally the right call as far as I'm concerned.

Just be aware that him lying is definitely part of the process. So is your getting to a point where you don't accept it. If anything, DB is about YOU and what you will or will not accept. The difference is that you have a goal and are working toward that. But you have two people to deal with - you and him. He makes irrational choices and you do the best you can to adapt. To a point. There are going to be some things that are more than you'll accept and that's OK.

Cut yourself some slack and shrug it off. Like in sports, yesterday is yesterday - what have you done here and now? smile

Peace,
AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
AJM #2691322 07/19/16 06:55 AM
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I agree w/AJM, cut yourself some slack. There comes a time when you have had enough and this is one of those times. Now, set your boundaries and stick to them, i.e., no waffling. You called him on his behavior and I don't think you would have done that had he not opened the door and asked you what was wrong. So, the truth dart hit him squarely in the middle of his face. Notice how he tried to turn the tables on you? Don't accept that.

DB is for you and it helps/teaches you how to react to people and also helps you identify what you will and will not accept from people.

Today is a new day and you need to let what happened yesterday go. Trust me...your h may do so and act all nice when he contacts you again and pretend it never happened. Just remember, when you set a boundary, stick to it.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2691425 07/19/16 02:08 PM
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Thank you Job and AJM. I don't know why it is that I can get past just about everything he's done except the lying. He's always been a "boaster" and inflated himself some, but I feel like he's taking me for a fool when he's lying to me, face to face, and expecting me to believe it all. Maybe someday he'll figure out that I expect him to be truthful and that unless he is, I can never rebuild any trust in him. That is the goal, right?

Now on to today which has been one for the books. This will be long, but definitely not boring.

Job, BIL is gone.

After everyone got down to business this morning, I went to talk to H to try to do some damage control. He was extremely angry and spewing. I couldn't have gotten a word in if I tried.

He then picked up a cup of coffee on his desk and threw it across the room spilling coffee all over the place and shattering the cup. Then he stormed out of his office.

I was shaking and on the verge of tears ... a complete mess. I stayed in his office, hiding from the employees who I knew heard the crash and just trying to calm down. He came back a few minutes later and starting ranting that he was never coming back here again, etc.

I let him rant and spew his venom for a while and finally asked him if he would take a minute to listen to me. He angrily said yes.

I asked him to think about who and what had instigated our argument yesterday. I told him I really hadn't cared why he was taking the morning off until BIL started in on me about it and I took the bait. I related what BIL had said to me (and his Dad).

H, still angry, said he was just sick of this and brought up a couple of things about BIL that I had told him recently.

I then continued by saying that I had told him in the past that I didn't want to get into a he said/she said with BIL but I just couldn't do this any more either. I said here are some of the things that I've heard over the past couple of years and I started listing all the stuff BIL had said like I could destroy H in a D and that BIL had a weird smile on his face when he said it as if he would enjoy seeing that (he did!); BIL's speculation about H hiding money from me or selling the company out from under me and parking all the proceeds somewhere that I couldn't access. I went on and on. I let it all spill out. Two years of divisiveness, back-stabbing, disrespect ... all of it.

I then said that this is the crap that I've been dealing with for 2 years and I just couldn't do it anymore.

H responded that he had enough and he was done.

I responded that BIL had been trying to drive a wedge between us for two years and apparently he finally succeeded. Then I left the room.

I was a wreck. I was just sitting in my office staring at the wall as though I were in some kind of shock. I felt so lost and had no idea what to do next. So I just sat there.

A short while later, H came to the door and "ordered" me to his office. He also "ordered" BIL to his office (in front of all the other employees). H was extremely angry and started confronting BIL - mostly about the things he had said the day before. BIL got defensive, then angry. They were shouting back and forth. Most statements began with "Who in the h3ll do you thing you are to ..." BIL finally stood up and told H FU as he stormed out of the office. He packed up his personal belongings and left. As he was loading his car, H asked if he was quitting and BIL said yes.

I went back to my office and resumed my Zombie like state. I was so stunned. I couldn't believe what had just happened and that it happened so fast.

H then asked that I and our next most senior employee come to his office. He had calmed down immensely and told the employee she would be taking BIL's place and the three of us started discussing what to do from there and came up with a game plan.

H's demeanor did a complete 180. He apologized to me for his outburst. He said he wasn't angry with me and that I hadn't done anything wrong. He said he was relieved that BIL was out of the picture and that he had been thinking about firing him for months. He told the employee that BIL had been trying to drive a wedge between him and me for two years and enough was enough. He said we (he and I) may have issues in our personal life, but as business partners, we were on the same page and as tight as we could get.

He then met with each employee to explain that BIL was no longer with the company, what changes were being made and how it would affect them.

Now, H has to go face his parents. His Dad will be livid and of course, all of this will be H's fault. H is preparing to pack up his belongings there and leave tonight. He plans to store what he doesn't need here and stay in a hotel.

I feel like a huge weight has been lifted from my shoulders. I feel a tremendous amount of relief. I feel like a ball and chain has been removed from the company and my life.

But I also feel like I was the one to spill the beans and cause a family rift. I know I will never be welcome in the in-laws home again and H may not be either. That's why I've kept my mouth shut for so long. I didn't want to be the one to instigate that. I had so hoped H would see the light and take care of things without my intervention.

But the more I thought about the turn of events yesterday, the more clear it became that BIL, once again, saw an opportunity to get H and I at each others throat. He planted the seed about "people only lie when they have something to hide" and the stuff about whether or not H stayed at a hotel with his friends. Then he went to H to complain about things I had done in the office which, of course, H came to me with. It was a trap and we both got caught.

I just decided (at 4am this morning) that I was tired of putting up with BIL's antics and suffering in silence. It had to stop. It was time to speak up, regardless of the consequences.

So that's where things stand with 2T. I'm emotionally and mentally exhausted. And I feel so bad for H. He has a tough task ahead ... facing his parents.


Me: 59 and holding
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Wow, 2T, what a turn of events! I’m glad you stood up for yourself and told H what was on your mind about BIL. I also glad that BIL is gone. What a selfish man! Too bad for your H that he has now to face his parents about the whole thing. But… he brought it up on himself. You are not responsible for his decisions. You’ve been nothing but understanding and gracious about a lot of things.

One things I’m not clear about. Did H actually lie about him being sick, etc… or was it BIL’s plot? Sorry, if I missed this in your posts. I’ve been kind of dealing with some of the unpleasant things recently, so my head is a bit “sore”.

Take care of yourself, 2T.


M:50
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What a busy day you had! This meltdown has been brewing for quite some time and he had to get "very angry" in order to confront his brother. Things should operate much better w/the BIL gone...but don't be surprised to discover some things that your BIL may have done while there in the last two years. You and your h have no idea to what extent he's been playing things behind the scene. I do hope that I'm wrong about this. I'm glad that man is gone and you now have someone else to work with.

Today, hopefully, will be a better day for all of you.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2691570 07/20/16 09:19 AM
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2T - wow, lots going on over there. In reading about your h's various fluctuations, I was reminded of a teenager who toggles between showing tremendous maturity, sudden moodiness, anger and odd immaturity. And then back again through it all. Sounds familiar, eh? One day, h is über capable. The next he storms off saying this isn't "fun." Then anger and back to maturity. Yes, more baking needed.

As for you BIL, it seems to me you practiced self care. There is a business and a marriage at stake. From what you write, it does not appear that BIL was on the same page.

Rgarding your in-laws, it's a private business affair, really. There will be much he said/she said and as parents, their primary objective should be to sit the fence and help them mend fences as they cannot know the whole truth to what happened.

Take care. Thinking of you.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2691764 07/21/16 08:29 AM
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Bright, yes H did lie or at the least, wasn't completely truthful. I thought he was being vague and shrugged it off like I do most of the stuff he keeps to himself about his activities until BIL started in on me about H lying to hide something and speculating about whether H stayed out all night. I was already skeptical of some things H had said during the previous couple of days but was choosing not to delve into it. BIL pushed my buttons and I reacted.

HaWho, I agree there are a lot of fluctuations with H's behavior and it really doesn't surprise me. I didn't like the intensity of his reaction, but it wasn't entirely unexpected. He actually said he regretted his reaction and asked me if I thought he had a right to be angry and I told him yes. As for the in-laws, I think my R with them has come to an end.

Job, "surprised" is an understatement. What I've learned has me completely stunned.

H came to the house last night and said he wanted to talk to me about some of the things BIL told me because he wanted to see if some of my "melt-downs" corresponded to BIL's interference.

He never got to that though. Instead he told me that one of the things BIL had told him (on several occasions) was to carefully watch the finances because BIL suspected I was pilfering money from the business. He then talked about the things BIL was telling me at the same time about H hiding funds or trying to sell the company without my knowledge.

He also said that while BIL was telling me I should buy out H, he was telling H that he should buy me out and get rid of me.

I knew BIL was up to no good, but I had no idea how deep or serious it was. I never imagined BIL was that conniving and underhanded.

H said, "2T, I don't get it. Why would he do this? What was his motive? What did he think he would gain?"

We talked a lot about it, but didn't come up with anything more than speculation about things like ego, lust for power, jealousy of H or our success, etc. I don't think we will ever know the answers to H's questions.

H said he wasn't happy about the way things happened but he thought it was all for the best.

We also got the issue about the previous morning straightened out, then went to dinner and had a pleasant evening.

About 45 minutes after I got home (while I was typing a post) H showed up and asked if he could spend the night here. Of course, I said yes.

FIL kicked him out. They had a huge argument. FIL said some incredibly nasty things to H and accused him not taking care of his B and meeting his "family obligations." He tried to get H to say he would take BIL back and H said no. FIL tried the guilt route saying BIL had a family to support and now had no job, no insurance, etc. H stood his ground. FIL called H some perfectly awful names. It was ugly.

We talked for a couple of hours about what had happened. Well, he talked. I mostly listened. H expressed feelings about his upbringing and his R with his family (particularly his Dad), going back many, many years. Most of what he said I've heard bits and pieces of for many years so there wasn't much that he said that surprised me. He talked as though his R with his family was over, saying he said goodbye to his Mom before he left and he knew he'd not see her again.

This is the scenario that I feared would happen once BIL's antics came to light ... a family torn apart and H taking the brunt of the blame. In his parents eyes, BIL is totally innocent in all this and has done nothing wrong. Sadly, H is the "bad guy" ... always has been and always will be in his F's eyes.

I'm trying to keep in mind that although H is hurt and bitter right now, time has a way of healing wounds and hopefully he and his Dad can get back to a state of tolerance some day.

H seemed calm this morning. I wished him a good day when he left for the office and he said he was going to have a great day and was looking forward to the dinner I'm making for him tonight.

I'm just astonished at how things can change in the blink of an eye.

Me? I'm doing fine. I'm saddened by the whole sitch, but other than be supportive and compassionate toward H, I don't see that there's anything I can do.

I do feel some responsibility for bringing all this to light, but I just couldn't keep quiet any longer. I feel like H needed to know what BIL thought of him. He needed to know that BIL was not trustworthy, not reliable, had no respect for H, was not supportive of his business plans and didn't have his back. (Turns out BIL felt the same toward me.) I don't like what has happened and wish with all my might it could have been handled differently. But I don't regret speaking the truth and opening H's eyes to his B's duplicity which was much worse than I ever imagined.


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Your BIL was "projecting" and most likely do the pilfering himself. He wanted to be able to do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted and figured your h wouldn't care since he's not around. He wanted to get rid of you because you were there working and would see things. In other words, your BIL was a very jealous man of both you and your h.

As for your h taking care of his brother, his brother is a grown man and should be able to get another job. In fact, he needs to get in the unemployment line and start looking. It is not a family obligation to keep a sibling on if he/she isn't working out. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to read later on that a lot of stuff went on that you didn't know about when it comes to your BIL.

I'm glad you and your h had a good conversation about the situation and I think all of you will be better off w/the BIL gone from the business. As for your H's family, they'll either get over it or they won't...but it's not their business to operate. It's not too often that siblings working together in a business that is owned by one of them works out. I have seen this happen before w/my xbil and xh.

Hang in there. I think you and your h both did the proper thing. Don't give it a second thought.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2691973 07/22/16 10:54 AM
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Hi 2T. I always follow your posts, but never have anything to add, but right now I don't know where to start!

First off, great job on how you have handled each situation that came up.

I am really glad you invited your H to stay with you instead of his parents. You explained me and my H, both seeming to want the same, but at a stalemate to be the first to give, the fear of rejection.... it's a weird place to be.

I am very happy you called out your H on lying. That is a boundary you must stand by and there was no reason for it. I would not beat yourself up for that, that was called for.

WOW about BIL! That so needed to happen! I love that your H came to you, to talk about things, sounds like BIL was making big waves between you and I am glad you both see that. You had suspected it.

I am sorry about the in-laws. Hopefully in time they will see that your H needed to do as he did and come to their senses. And look, H came and asked to stay with you. He could have gone to a hotel like he said, but he didn't. He came because of your offer, he knew it was safe to do so.

Keep that door open 2T. I would not hesitate or hold back if it feels right to you. I am happy to hear how things are coming to the surface here....I suspect more will, not only about BIL, but between you and H. Keep those lines of communication open.

Get yourself some rest, you deserve it! Best wishes 2T.


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
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Thank you so much mleigh4 for such a positive post. Boy, did I need to hear it. The past 4 days have been discouraging, to say the least.

I suppose I could sum it all up with one statement that H made on Saturday: "I guess I want to have my cake and eat it too." Yes. He actually said that!

H stayed at my place on Wednesday night after he was booted out of his Dad's place. He checked into a hotel on Thursday night saying he didn't want to interfere with my routine. On Friday he said the hotel was awful and asked to stay with me. I said ok.

Everything was fine until Saturday afternoon when he wanted to get into personal plans for the future.

I told him I would not stand in his way if he wanted a D, but I would not remain his partner. I told him that in my mind a D was final and the end and that I wouldn't want him in my life in any capacity afterwards.

Once again, I had to shoot down this idea he has had since BD that we will D and still be business partners and friends. I asked him if we got a D and everything stayed the same, what's the point? I asked why would I want to go through the emotional and stressful process of a D if nothing changes? I asked if he wanted to get remarried or did he just not want to feel guilty about his lady friends? He said he had no intention of getting remarried although he would never say never. (Ignored the guilt question.) He said he wanted closure. I asked how is it closure if everything stays the same except you've signed your name to some legal document? How does that bring closure? He said I had a point.

I said I want closure, too, but his proposal would not provide that to me.

This is where the cake eating comment came in.

I made it very clear that I wasn't saying I would leave the company because I wanted to keep him "hooked." I said I've continued to do what I do because it's the right thing to do and I do care about the company and our employees. But, I'm prepared to walk away because I can't be his XW and his business partner. I told him when I sign on the dotted line, in my mind, our R is over

If I'm being completely honest with myself, I think that as long as there is no D, there is hope. I feel like if a D happens, all hope is lost. It's done. We're finished. I'm permanently fired. What I can't figure out is why, after all this, I still want this man? I wonder if I really want this man (who has hurt me like no other person on this planet could) in my life or if I'm just afraid of an unknown future. As Scarlett would say, "I'll think about that tomorrow."

But to continue: I said, "Okay. This is what I want as a D settlement" and told him what I wanted (leaving room for negotiation, of course). First he said, "So, you've been giving this some thought." Then, after doing some calculations he said he couldn't afford to buy me out.

He started telling me how valuable I was and if I left the company, he'd never find someone who could manage the money as well as I did or someone who he could trust like he trusts me.

That's when the first truth dart took flight. I told him he had confirmed what I've thought for years ... that my only value to him was my ability to help him make money ... that I was just one of his donkeys. (He once, when he was deep in the fog and as angry as h3ll, referred to his employees as donkeys and said their only purpose was to make him money.)

I launched another dart that maybe I shouldn't have, but I compared his behavior to that of some coworkers years ago that wanted nothing more out of life than to drink, party, buy expensive man toys and run around on their wives. H thought they were all scum.

It wasn't all negative though. I told him that there were a lot of things I admired about him, but there were other things that I didn't like. I said I wished I could put him back on his pedestal but every time we seemed to be getting along well and I was taking a small step in that direction, he did or said something to push me away. He looked surprised and said, "Really?" I said yes, you do. I said I wished I could put him back up there and I've tried, but I didn't think that would ever happen. He asked, "Too much water under the bridge?" I said, "No. Too many roadblocks."

On Sunday I just left him alone. I did my thing at the house and had very little interaction with him. In all honesty, I just didn't have the energy to deal with him.

Late Sunday afternoon he said he didn't want us to be like that. He said we needed to get on the same page and work together because we had big changes in the company to deal with and we should just put off all the other stuff for now. Here's the funny remark, "We can't be walking around thinking FU each time we pass each other." A little projection there, you think? I didn't respond to that one.

He also said he had never called me names or made personal remarks like the ones I did the day before. (I so wish I had a tape of all the critical, blaming, disrespectful, demeaning and just plain hateful things he's said to me over the past 3 years.) He said he wasn't going to put up with that anymore. So, I guess I'm now forbidden from saying anything negative about his behavior? Maybe my darts hit home?

Then he started pouring it on thick about how great I was at my job. He said how impressed he was that I got the company through some difficult financial times and that I had saved two peoples jobs since we were close to firing two people. He questioned my desire to leave the company after a D saying it was not a smart financial decision. I just told him that sometimes you have to balance things and I had to balance financial aspects with my emotional and mental health.

Monday night he started in again saying I misinterpreted what he said about the company falling apart if I left. He said he was trying to pay me a compliment.

Later he said he knew what I wanted. He said he knew I wanted to try but he didn't want to be M and didn't want to be a H. Blah, blah, blah. Same broken record.

I simply told him that I felt like I had been living in a nightmare for the past 3 years and I wanted it to end. I said I knew I could end it myself and that I just needed to figure out what price I was willing to pay and how much I was willing to sacrifice to make that happen. (He knows I've been testing if I can live here without the additional income I get from the business, so he knows I'm trying to figure those things out.)

His basic demeanor was hugely different from his last visit. I felt like I had gone back in time 3 years and I was hearing the same old stuff again but without the anger. There was so much of MLC H bubbling up, but in a subdued manner (with the exception of throwing the coffee cup and the confrontation with BIL). Maybe the BIL stuff brought it up. Maybe that upset his apple cart? IDK?

Since Sunday, we've been polite and cordial - occasionally friendly - but that's it.

Anyway, he left here today knowing I'm trying to figure out if I can live here without an income from the business, that I won't try to stop a D but won't start it, what I want in a D settlement and that I will not continue in the business after a D. And he knows he will not get to have his cake and eat it too. He knows I won't buy into his fantasy any more than I already have. And if he's using his noggin at all, he knows I'm getting tired of this whole mess.

Regarding BIL. I think he feels pretty bad about the whole thing. He says it was his mistake to hire him in the first place and he knew it but he couldn't figure out how to fix it. He remarked that he had lost his whole family in the blink of an eye.

The truth is, he hired BIL so he could go be with OW1 (and yes, OW2 is still in the picture) and live his fantasy life. So he's dealing with the aftermatn of his craziness in MLC land. I don't feel sorry for him. Actions have consequences and he's dealing with his. So sad to watch, though.

In spite of all that, I'm doing fine. It nothing else, it just re-energizes me to keep moving forward, keep working on getting my life in order and prepare for a single life without H in it. It gives me the impetus to keep looking for the inner peace I need in facing that unknown future and the strength to do what has to be done for me.

Sorry this was so long.

My best to everyone.

2T


Me: 59 and holding
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T: 23
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Your truth darts hit the target and he's got a lot of guilt going on and he's trying to figure out a way to keep you on in the business if a divorce takes place.

I think you handled the conversations extremely well and were very honest w/him. Yep, he wants his cake and it too! He's got a lot to think about, just as you do right now. He is now aware that he would need to buy you out of the business if you should divorce and yes, he most likely can do so...but he's going to try to convince you to stay on to do the work and not have to pay you a lump sum. It's all about the money for him right now. He can't even see two feet in front of him and realize that once you are divorced, everything changes.

Again, I think you did a great job w/the truth darts. You weren't nasty, but you were very honest w/him. Time will tell how your honesty was absorbed and what he's going to come up w/next.

Take care of yourself.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2693073 07/27/16 04:38 PM
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Thanks Job. I think those darts hit the bull's eye and I also think he needed to know how I felt. I shudder to think what he will come up with next.

You are so right. For him, it's all about the money and it has been for some time. And you're also right that he can't see two feet in front of him. A D would be far more detrimental (financially) to him than to me. I think he's (once again) thinking with the little head.

This is my biggest dilemma. I don't want him to come back because of the money. There is no doubt in my mind that if he didn't think he "needed" me in the company, he would have already filed and we'd be divorced. I truly am a donkey in his eyes, whether he wants to admit that to himself or not. I figured that one out a long time ago.

He could buy me out if he wanted a D bad enough. And his company would survive my absence. He'd just have to invest more of his time into it, which wouldn't allow him to live as he has been lately. I've made that possible and it sticks in my craw sometimes.

I know all the flattery and accolades about being a "superstar" when it comes to company finances are just his attempts to manipulate me into doing what he wants ... letting him have his cake and eat it too. But it doesn't work anymore. I might be afraid of facing an unknown future without a clear direction but I'm not afraid of losing him. I'm not going to fall for his manipulative games anymore. I don't think he's figured that out yet.

There is so much going through my mind right now. I'm still pondering why I even want this guy back. My IC has her work cut out for her tomorrow.

Anyway, I bought my ticket to see "Bad Moms" this weekend. It looks like it may be kind of raunchy, but hopefully funny.

I had to make an appt to take my little sports car (my MLC car? confused Gee. If he can have one, so can I! grin ) into the shop next week for a repair that I discovered was needed a couple of day ago. Fortunately, it's still under warranty, so that shouldn't be too bad.

My "test" to live on my retirement income without the additional funds from the company went well this month, but there were no insurance or tax bills to pay. So onward to next month. I really hope it works out that I can stay in this house after a potential D because I like it here. We shall see

HaWho, I thought about you a couple of nights ago and chuckled about the locked dorm room. I was headed to bed and wanted to tell H the alarm was set (he goes outside to smoke). I knocked on his door, waited a few seconds and was going to crack it so I didn't have to yell through the door. It was locked. A smile crossed my face and I thought about you.

I also thought, "What the h3ll? Are you afraid I'll walk in while you're in a state of undress? I've seen your talliwhacky (my Mom's term) a gazillion times. Did you get it pierced or something?"

Hey, sometimes you have to find the humor in all this drama.

Best to everyone.

2T


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2T - LOL - when the kids ask my h why his door is locked, my h says innocently "oh it locks itself automatically." When I heard that, my eyes rolled so far to the back of my head, it took them all day to roll back to the front.

The beauty of this forum is that we get to see all the different ways these MLCers go crazy. Mine, unfortunately, is *literally* going nuts.

It's interesting to me that your h is still just sane enough to hold onto this business meanwhile making all sorts of other completely insane decisions. The way he brought on his brother so that he can run off and play? It's interesting to see the way he's making logic based decisions with pure emotions.

It reminds me of this story my h told early in replay. He had bombed me at this point. I had learned this was MLC. We were out with our kids and my h told this story about an old boss he had; a very successful individual. The guy had no kids and no wife, thankfully! One LBS spared here. Anyway, one day, the boss walks into work and up and quits a great job that pays well. He is almost 50. And, he becomes a monk and gives away EVERYTHING! Every last penny and material item.

So, not yet knowing to zip it, I said "know what that is boys? A midlife crisis!" H gets really huffy and retorts "no, sometimes people just want to change their lives." (He had been saying this a lot: that HE wanted to change his life.) So I say, "oh yeah? So how did it turn out for him at the monastery?" Long silence. H: "two years later he showed up at the office out of the blue (!) and asked for his job back." Imagine waking up to that? And he had worked his whole life for that security! Ouch.

Point is, there was a time where my h would have recognized the insanity of this! But that day he did not. To him, what this guy did was just a mere recalibration, a tweak. But my kids, then 9 and 11, even knew this was nutty.

Nice job with all those darts! Good luck in hosting your live-in teen!!


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2693115 07/27/16 11:17 PM
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That's interesting HaWho. Shortly before BD (and when his A was underway) XH told me a story about a colleague of his. This guy had been M for years, and was serially unfaithful. He and his W separated a number of times due to this, and presumably there was massive heartache all round. Ultimately, they decided to stay together in a sort of open M and this seemed to be working for them (him?)

The thing is, XH told me this story as though it was a kind of success story that might be emulated or aspired to.....ugh...

Xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
HaWho #2693127 07/28/16 12:52 AM
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2T lots going on over there, eh! You are definitely handling this well, God bless you! Geez, do the MLC fun and games never end?

BIL is unconscionable. Instead of trying to help his family (you and H) work through your problems - even if that meant shutting his mouth and staying out of it - he deliberately drove the wedge deeper. I'm glad he's gone. Too bad FIL can't see what's really going on here.

As for H ... time will tell, I guess. I'm glad you have IC tomorrow (or is it today?). You're doing great, but it's always nice to have a place to go to talk about this stuff with a neutral party face to face.

hang in there 2T xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
HaWho #2693194 07/28/16 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted By: HaWho
It's interesting to me that your h is still just sane enough to hold onto this business meanwhile making all sorts of other completely insane decisions. The way he brought on his brother so that he can run off and play? It's interesting to see the way he's making logic based decisions with pure emotions.

HaWho, he's made a lot of dumb decisions. There have been many times that I've had to function (business-wise) in spite of him instead of with him and some of those financial hoops I had to jump through were because of him. Same with BIL, but I don't have to deal with that issue any longer.

I find it interesting that in both our cases (and many others), the roles seem to be reversed. I mean women are supposed to make emotional decisions and men are supposed to be the ones to make logical, unemotional decisions.

I don't know about your H, but for the past few years mine will make a split second decision (that he usually comes to regret) out of pure emotion. I, on the other hand, have learned through all this to think things through, consider the possible outcomes, etc. before committing to a plan of action (or inaction). I find it fascinating.

Anyway, thanks for stopping by. I always value the input and perspective I get from all the wonderful people on this board.

[[[HUGS}}}
2T


Me: 59 and holding
H: :53
Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown
M: 19
T: 23
BD: 9-23-2013
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This may be long and rambling, but it's time to purge the brain in a safe way and among people who get it. My apologies in advance.

My appt with the IC didn't go as well as I had hoped. I left feeling a little agitated which is totally opposite of how I usually feel.

When exploring why I even still want H in my life, I mentioned financial security. She started giving me advice on investing and suggestions on safe places to put money and derive an income from it. It put me off.

When I told her I had allowed H to stay at my place, she gave me a disapproving look and I got the distinct impression that she didn't "approve."

I'm starting to feel like I have "outgrown" her and maybe it's time to stop seeing her. Sometimes I feel like she thinks I should just pull the trigger on a D and move on. I'll see how this goes for a while, I suppose. If I continue to get these vibes, I'll stop seeing her.

A couple of interesting convos with employees this week.

Apparently H was telling the new manager (who is actually our oldest employee and is pretty familiar with our sitch) that he enjoyed the single lifestyle. He said he had a bunch of single friends that never wanted to M and enjoyed the freedom of a single lifestyle. H said he did too and he was part of a singles group that was very active. (Part of a single's group? That says a lot about where his mind is.)

Employee said she told him that kind of lifestyle may be fun until you reached a point that you just couldn't do it anymore ... keep up the pace. She said at some point, most people want a companion they can grow old with and can rely on to be there when they're needed. She told him that in spite of the challenges she'd had in her marriage, she loved being married and it was comforting to know that no matter what she might be doing, her H was right there in the next room and could be there for her if she needed him and vice-versa.

I was also working with a couple of male employees and the discussion turned to social activities and what we all did on the weekends, etc. One of the things H has criticized me for is my reluctance to go to a restaurant (other than fast food) and have dinner alone. H has said it's odd and he doesn't understand why I have a problem with that. He brings that up a lot ... so much so that I began to think this is a hurdle I HAVE to conquer.

Well, both of these guys said they hated going to a restaurant alone and avoid it. One said, "Yeah, people see me sitting there alone and think ... oh, he got stood up." The other said he feels uncomfortable because what else is there to do but stare at the wall or other people? He said "I can't bury my face in my phone for the whole time."

It was such a relief to hear that. I'm not strange! Even guys sometimes have a problem with that!

One of the things that always gets me down when H is here is that he implies there is something wrong with me because I don't have a gaggle of friends and I don't have the opportunity to go out every night of the week like he claims he does. He keeps pushing, saying you should join a group, make friends you can do things with. He keeps implying I would be happier if I had a non-stop social life like he does. Maybe he thinks I'll meet some guy to take his place???

Obviously, I have friends and we do have girl's night out fairly regularly, but I don't have this need to be always on the go. I don't have the need to have 100's of casual friends. A few closer friends is more up my alley. H also has no clue how much time I spend alone and how much I spend with friends since he's not here enough to know and I don't tell him all my activities.

When he starts down that road, it's hard to bite my tongue and not defend myself, although I'll keep trying. I don't know if it's a misjudgement on his part or justification for leaving me. Probably a little of both. Or maybe it's the hope I'll find another man among those new friends?

One thing I find amusing is H will say he can go out with friends every night of the week if he wants to. Then later he'll say he might decide he wants to go out for a beer and may have to call 5 or 6 people before finding someone who's available to join him. Or, he'll post a message to his "chat group" that he will be at such-and-such place if anyone wants to meet him there. He said someone usually shows up, but there have been times he just sat there alone. Seems kind of sad to me. I just can't imagine what it would be like to say, "Hey, I'll be at x tonight if anyone wants to join me" to a bunch of "friends" and have no one show up. Ouch.

I'm still giving thought to why I even still want H in my life and why I'm still trying to save the R. I think part of it is that I know what a great guy he once was and how well he treated me. Then the question becomes a "what if." What if I gave up too soon? What if I had just given him a little more time? What if that good guy, that I believe is buried in all that muck somewhere, fights his way back to surface? What if he wakes up and wants to R but I've moved on with a new life or someone new? It's all that stuff that there are really no answers to.

Then I wonder if that "good guy" is just below the surface and he's just focusing the goodness on others?

Then I think about some of the stuff he's told me he's done over there. The most recent ... punching out some guy on the side of the road because of a driving dispute (road rage). That's the angry, replay H and obviously he's still lurking around. The good guy doesn't appear to be making a significant appearance over there either.

By the way, when relating that particular incident, he said he had friends in the car with him. He thinks he showed them that he has no problem standing up for himself and that they were impressed with that. My thought was, "No. I suspect they thought you were some kind of lunatic. I suspect they may be rethinking their friendship with you, just as I'm wondering why I would want someone like that in my own life."

I do want to note that that is totally uncharacteristic of pre-MLC H. He may have gotten agitated and given the guy the finger, but he never would have stopped and gotten physical.

It's all a little discouraging. I really thought we were making some progress; that there were some baby steps toward reconnecting. Now that doesn't really appear to be the case.

I feel like I tried being his "friend" and put a little of myself out there for him ... cracked the door a little wider and he took that to mean it was safe to push me into letting him have his cake and eat it to. I'm wondering if my "softening" (for lack of a better word) led him to think I'd be more agreeable to his outrageous D proposal. Maybe I'm misinterpreting the whole thing. IDK. But, I'm thinking the approach I took was a cheeseless tunnel. I don't quite know what to do from here.

I suppose that's enough rambling. Sorry this was so long. So many thoughts spinning around in my head.

Before I go, "Bad Moms" is a funny, funny movie and well worth the price of a ticket!

Hope everyone has a great weekend.
2T


Me: 59 and holding
H: :53
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M: 19
T: 23
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Hi 2T,

First of all, I too hate to eat alone at restaurants. I have done it a couple of times, and sat at the bar where there is a tv to watch. Otherwise, it's the wall or your phone! Lol. But when I go out to eat with friends, I always see people eating alone. I admire them for being able to, I don't think down on them at all.

I LOVE alone time. I have many nights where I don't have my son, and I think about calling a friend, but decide to make myself dinner and watch a movie alone. I have always enjoyed it. I think some people always need someone around, for whatever reason, I have never understood that. Take pride in your alone time. Next time your H comments, just tell him, I like hanging out with me!

Your H sounds to be trying to figure himself out still. I am sure many will disagree, but I think being friends is a good thing. Yes, it's cakeeating, I am guilty of letting my H do that. I have tried the complete shutdown and distance with him, but for me, it just didn't feel right. I am not sure why, I am sure someday I will, but it just didn't feel right to me. I have learned how to keep the door open while still moving forward. I too struggle daily, wondering if I even want him back, but in the meantime, we spend time together that I enjoy. It's no guarantee we will work things out, I still am exploring my own feelings towards him, but we have over 16 years of history together. For me, it feels right to be a warm and inviting place to all I love, including H. I think if I shut him out, that would create the "what ifs" down the road. At least I will be able to look back and know he had his chance, I did all I could do.

That's just my opinion based on my own situation. They are all different. It just comes down to what works best and feels right for you. Trial and error is the way to go until you settle into a comfortable place.

Hang in there, you have so many changes going on in your world. You will get your answers, it just goes at a snails pace!

Much love,
M


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
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2T - sorry about all that happened with the IC. Not fun to go in to IC and feel like you were at Charles Schwab.

Mleigh has already given you great advice. I see all that talk from your h as a form of not being able to see you as different from him. He thinks you think the same way he does as far as needing to socialize. If this is not something you want to change about yourself, I agree with Mleigh: differentiate yourself in a friendly way. Might also be a good truth dart?

As for the going out to eat by yourself, I get that. I too have a whole lot more alone time now than ever. My salvation has been audio books. I am listening to so many amazing books that I would never take time to read. This has been a life savior, particularly at the beach where apparently, if you're there alone as a woman, even with a wedding ring, you are fair game?!? Ew. Sometimes I put my headphones in when I am not listening to anything! It's like flashing a sign: I am not hear to talk to anyone!

Thinking of you!


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2693788 07/31/16 02:35 PM
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M, I agree that being friends is a good thing. And I thought it was paying some tiny dividends, but it seems like things took some giant leaps backwards. One thing was that I knew he had friends here in town but he seemed to want to hide his activities with them from me or mislead me about spending time with them. Why? I have no clue.

The last time he was here, we had some very enjoyable times together. This time, not so much. I'm trying to give him some slack. His friends were here and he wanted to entertain them. Then there was the blow-up with BIL and his family and the changes at the office that all that caused. I'm not trying to make excuses for him, but none of that is conducive to enjoyable times, so I suppose I shouldn't be too discouraged given the circumstances.

One thing that's bothered me this time is that he's always talked about getting a D, but for quite some time he's spoken as though it was something that would happen sometime in the future. He didn't seem to be in a big hurry. Now he's back to pushing harder for one sooner and I'm going to assume it's because of OW2. He was the same way with OW1 and things calmed down re D after that fell apart. Now all of a sudden, a D on a faster timeline is important. I just hope she's pressuring him because that's why he dumped OW1.

Anyway, I'm going to use your line that I like hanging out with me because it's right on the money. I wonder if he's ever considered that I might think his lifestyle is a little strange (among a multitude of other adjectives)? No, of course not.

HaWho, I've been thinking a lot about his socializing comments. The way I see it is this. He thinks that being involved in all these non-stop social activities is living life in a big and fun manner and if I would just socialize the way he does, I'd be living life in a happy way like he is. The thing is, he lives his life that way but still talks about finding happiness.

I view that kind of activity as an escape and I know that I may have fun while participating, but when I get home or wake up the next morning, whatever problems I may have will still be there. Non-stop distractions won't fix those problems. It's just a method to avoid facing and solving them. There is a balance. But a teen-age or frat boy mind doesn't understand that sooner or later, you have to face your issues. You can't run from them forever.

But this visit wasn't a total bust. It gave me some things to think about and more avenues to grow.

HaWho, I think a wedding ring is sometimes seen as a challenge!


Me: 59 and holding
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M: 19
T: 23
BD: 9-23-2013
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You know, I keep thinking about H throwing a coffee cup across the room and the story he told me about punching some guy out in a moment of road rage.

I'm thinking he has serious anger and control issues.

He was never like that before, but now I'm actually kind of afraid of him. He could have launched the cup at me (as I challenged his truthfulness). He's never done anything to me physically, but he doesn't seem to be able to control himself and I fear that if I cross his line, he won't be able to control himself. I've never thought he'd do anything to physically harm me, but those incidents make me wonder about his self-control.

I'm thinking I should rescind my offer to let him stay here.

That is NOT the kind of guy I want to be around. He kind of scares me.


Me: 59 and holding
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The anger does tend to come out quite often while they are in crisis. Keep in mind, MLC is all about emotions and they can't keep them in check. Eventually that anger will slowly slip away...but not for a long time.

If you think that you may have a problem w/him staying there, then choose a time to tell him it might be best if he stayed elsewhere.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2694714 08/04/16 04:30 PM
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I will probably let him stay here, Job, unless when he's here I see some sign that it's not safe. At that point, I'll ask him to leave. A coffee cup thrown in my home (or something similar) and I will have no problem kicking is a$$ out.

I noticed today that he left some laundry (which I will ignore) in the guest room, so I assume he's planning to stay here when he comes back.

But here's the funny thing for now. He's been asking daily when we talk at the office if things are better for me now that BIL is gone and expressing his concerns about how BIL's replacement is doing (she's doing fine and I have a lot of confidence in her).

I sent him an update email yesterday (first contact I've initiated since he left and the last for a while) and wonder of wonders, he replied via email ... I usually just get a text saying he got my email. He seems to be trying to spin things as though he wanted to get rid of BIL for some time for MY benefit and what happened was for the best ... for ME! I fear he will try to justify that whole business as a sacrifice he made for ME. And, he's still trying to pour on the praise for what I do. I'm sorry H, your credibility is in the tank and I'm not accepting the blame for bringing on BIL and that not working out.

I feel like he put his eggs in BIL's basket and now he has to put them back in my basket. My Momma didn't raise a fool! That may not be good DB'ing, but I think H has seen me as his "cash cow" for a lot years and thought BIL could replace me. Next?

It's so sad the state our R has come to. For H it's all about money. I'm beginning to wonder if he's always been this person and he was wearing a mask for the first ten years of our marriage? I'm growing very weary of dealing with his chit. Although I would like him in my life (and I wonder why at this point because I don't really like who he's become), I don't need him. Maybe it's hard for me to turn my back on someone I care about, but at some point you have to get past that and take care of yourself. I'm approaching that point.

I took my car in today for repair and it was a minor fix. No charges and only took 30 minutes. Yeah. That gave me lots of time to come home and chill.

I've been nursing a stiff neck and shoulders all week. Guess I slept wrong. I'm shuffling pillows around to try to solve that and making good use of the whirlpool tub. I probably could use a good massage. If it doesn't clear up this weekend, I'll try to get to one of the local spas for a massage.

I'm a big time college football fan (especially for "my" team), so I'm looking forward to a Saturday of games in a few weeks. My Saturdays are about to get very entertaining and distracting!

My sister was in and out of the hospital again with pneumonia. She's home now but I wonder how long she can keep this up. Her health has really declined this year.

I haven't heard from any of the in-laws so I have no idea how MIL is doing. If H has heard from them, he hasn't mentioned it. I suspect he hasn't. That whole sitch is so sad and I hate that things are in the state that they are, but I can't fix it. It is what it is and up to H to fix.

Wishing everyone a great weekend.

2T


Me: 59 and holding
H: :53
Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown
M: 19
T: 23
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Hey 2T, I’ve been reading your posts and the whole drama with BIL, etc. You might be overanalyzing it too much, what H wants… and what he is trying to project… I think he realized that you are his closest ally in business and in life in general… He is just trying to justify his bad decisions and spin it a little… He is not ready to admit all his mistakes and be humble, if you know what I mean. Now, that BIL is no longer in business, I would relax and dedicate some time to myself. It is great that you are looking forward to all these Saturday football games. Kind of negates your H’s opinion that you have a “boring” social life, LOL.

I’m so sorry to hear about your sister. I hope she will pull through this.

And, yes, DO ignore his laundry in the guest room! Maybe have a garbage bag ready to put it in… Just in case… smile


M:50
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S28 (my S from previous marriage)
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Hi 2T! Sorry I've not been around, but I'm trying to catch up with your posts and all I an say is wow! Just wow! How much has changed over the last few weeks.

I hope your situation will improve now that BIL and his poisonous words are out of the picture.

Take care sweetie


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





Esame #2694996 08/06/16 06:26 AM
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Hi Bright. It is nice not to have all the BIL drama. Makes office life much more pleasant. As for H, I don't think he has a humble bone in his body ... at least, not anymore. And I'm not sure he realizes that I'm his closest ally. He seems to be doing everything he can to destroy that. I do think he realizes we've been a good team in the financial realm, but in other realms, I think he's completely "decoupled."

Esame, my reaction is still the same ... wow. I feel like I was headed down a path and a sudden wind spun me around and sent me back in the opposite direction. I'm not sure I'll be going down that path again.

The latest ...

I caught H in another completely stupid, totally pointless lie/deception and this one was quite elaborate. One of those deceptions that requires you to pile lie on top of lie to make it sound believable. And to make matters worse, this one was related to the business.

When I asked an innocent, totally non-accusatory question related to the whole thing, he went the gaslighting route ...
"You remember I told you blah, blah, blah."

I'm beginning to wonder if I have a sign hanging around my neck that says "Deceive me. I'm so gullible, I'll believe anything."

I can't say that I'm angry. Hugely disappointed is probably a better description. I keep asking myself how on earth I could ever come to believe anything this guy says again? I can't envision a day when I wouldn't question what was coming out of his mouth.

Honesty is just so high on my list and while I know deceit is normal in MLC land, I just wonder if he will ever be capable of an honest R again. I even question how honest he's been throughout our R. I question if I was so "in love" that I didn't see it or saw it and just ignored it. (And, tee-hee-hee, I wonder if OW is doing that because we all know he's definitely lying to her.)

I feel like I go out of my way not to ask questions or make remarks that put him in a position of having to lie to me (unless I want to let him know I'm on to him). And still, he manufacturers lies and deceptions and tall tales that are completely pointless. I just don't get it. Why?

Must be that sign around my neck.

Anyway, I see some retail therapy on the agenda today.

My best to everyone.
2T


Me: 59 and holding
H: :53
Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown
M: 19
T: 23
BD: 9-23-2013
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2 Times, I know what you mean when the anger turns to disappointment. It must come from acceptance, knowing this is something in them, not us. I am not sure why your H feels the need to lie. I too value and require honesty, I understand your frustration.

Remember, it's not you, it's him.

How did the shopping therapy go? I hope it helped smile


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
Joined: Oct 2013
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M, you're so right. The anger just seems to subside and we end up just shaking our heads in disappointment.

The retail therapy went well. As usual, I ran out of funds before I felt the therapy had completely done it's job. frown

I spent a moderate amount of the weekend thinking about things I needed to get lined up in order to prepare for a D, in particular legal counsel (which I have for the personal side but not the business side). I gave some thought to the different directions I could take with the D and afterwards. That kind of thinking usually gets me in a "bitterness toward H" mood and it did again. Netflix to the rescue!

Then today, while I'm sitting at my desk in the office researching corporate and business attorneys, the florist delivers flowers from H with a note saying I was amazing and awesome and deserved some "just because" flowers. (Yes, Job. I've already sent a thank you for the flowers and the note.)

I am one confused cat right about now. confused

It saddens me that I can't just be happy for the gesture and not wonder what he's up to. It saddens me that I can't just accept that he's doing something nice for me out of some kind of positive feelings and not because he wants something from me. It saddens me that while I appreciate his gesture, it doesn't being me joy ... just confusion.

Is there something wrong with me?

2T


Me: 59 and holding
H: :53
Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown
M: 19
T: 23
BD: 9-23-2013
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Nope! There's absolutely nothing wrong w/you. It was a nice gesture on is part, but because he's in crisis, we tend to question their motives...and I don't blame you for doing so. Enjoy the flowers and know that no matter what transpires, you are going to be just fine.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2695767 08/09/16 08:30 PM
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Hmmm. He is very talented with those MLC confusion curve balls! I would feel the same as you.

I agree with Job to just enjoy the flowers smile


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
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How could you feel anything but confused when he is confused himself? No doll, there's nothing wrong with you. Enjoy the flowers, keep moving on your path and trust that there's some Divine purpose to it all ...

Thanks again for popping into my thread xoxoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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Oh gosh. I have to admit, I had a good laugh at the imagine of you researching lawyers as the flowers arrived. I swear, they can sense those invisible, unspoken lines we draw.

You handled your h so well on his visit! Kudos to you. That must not have been easy.

Amazing job handling a business and a personal life with a MLCer.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2695869 08/10/16 10:11 AM
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Seeing the reality in real time technicolor is confusing. You are trying to process things in a different way now and that takes a lot of dedication mentally, physically and emotionally.

As I keep moving through life seeing friends and acquaintances dealing with midlife transitions it seems like those without real time technicolor vision are much more vulnerable. Even if they or their spouses are not in crisis those folks are definitely at risk.

You know the people you run across that do not age well... The bitter, the perpetually sad and hopeless. The people who are unable to embrace the sweetness in their world because of some bitter experience. I am sad for them and wish that they could be brave enough to confront the world in real time technicolor because that is where jaw dropping beauty resides.


M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters
BD: 5/14
Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW
D Final 9/17

“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.”
― Maya Angelou



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Link to new thread: The seed beneath the bitter snows is me!

Job, I'm giving myself a pat on the back because I started a new thread before you told me I needed to do it. smile


Me: 59 and holding
H: :53
Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown
M: 19
T: 23
BD: 9-23-2013
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Not only give yourself a pat on the back for starting a new thread, but also because you linked your new thread to the previous thread and vice versa!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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