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#2681420 05/28/16 09:10 AM
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Link to previous thread:

Why don't you come to your senses

It's been a very busy and at times stressful week. We wrapped up three projects at the office and made big inroads on a fourth. I'm looking forward to a relaxing, stress-free 3-day weekend.

I had the stitches taken out on my nose on Monday and had to leave the little bandage on for five days. I took it off this morning and boy am I glad I didn't let the dermatologist scrape my nose. You can hardly tell anything was ever done. I'm very, very pleased.

A trip to the dentist this week for a cleaning has led me to another "cosmetic" improvement. I have a tooth that is getting dark and it has been bugging me because it just doesn't look good when I smile. The dentist said there's nothing wrong with the tooth, but fillings that were done years and years ago are beginning to show through the thinning enamel. He said whitening won't really solve the problem and the only solution was a crown. So, I've elected to have that done on Tuesday. grin

MIL is doing better. There are therapists coming in and getting her out of bed and exercising. The prognosis is that they can get her back to where she was before the fall.

On the MLC front, things have been somewhat quiet, but I have this vibe that the dynamic is not the same and I can't quite put my finger on what it is. I feel like I'm in a fog. eek I sense a change taking place between H and I since he was here but I'm not sure what it is exactly or how to interpret or respond to it. I feel like we have a better business connection than we've had in a long while, but don't know if that will be the extent of it or if it will lead to a better dynamic on the personal level. I'm kind of at a loss as to how to deal with it. I want to encourage it but not interfere with his process. Uncharted waters!

H calls into the office every day and until recently, our call usually only lasted about 5 minutes. H has become more and more chatty, mostly about business issues and plans, but he also talks about things he's doing other than business more than in the recent past. The calls are going 20 minutes or longer now and he's doing most of the talking.

H and I were always a pretty good team in running the business until MLC hit and he stopped talking to me about his plans or asking my opinion about possible directions. I have felt for a long time that the "team work" had fallen by the wayside. Now he's back to talking about plans, asking for my input, etc. It feels more like being a team than it's felt in a long time. I don't quite know what to make of it, but I'm pretty happy that we are starting to communicate more in that area. He's showing more interest in what's going on here and the direction of the business than he has in quite some time and I have so needed his help.

On the personal side, H is on a trip to the mountains this weekend. He told me a couple of days ago about an all day hike he was taking the next day and that he was looking forward to hiking and having some time to think about the business and "other things." I have no idea what "other things" means, but it does sound like he's processing stuff and if so, I'm glad to hear that. After the discussions we had while he was here, I sort of thought he had some things to think about. What the outcome will be, who knows?

H's birthday was a couple of days ago, so I bought a birthday card, took pics of it and sent them to him along with birthday wishes. He seemed very appreciative of that.

This weekend will give me an answer to my "experiment" ... cracking a window to encourage him to contact me on the weekend without me contacting him first. (As I said in my previous thread, I had told him some time ago when things were pretty rough not to contact me except at the office or about business. I've since told him that it was okay to call whenever he wanted, but he still stays quiet.) We'll see if I get any contact over this long weekend. My expectation is at zero.

Wishing everyone a fun and safe holiday weekend.

2T


Me: 59 and holding
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Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown
M: 19
T: 23
BD: 9-23-2013
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2T, catching up on your thread. I’m so happy to hear the news about the dermatology results. I’m also glad that your mother-in-law is doing better.

Originally Posted By: 2Times2Many
On the MLC front, things have been somewhat quiet, but I have this vibe that the dynamic is not the same and I can't quite put my finger on what it is. I feel like I'm in a fog. eek I sense a change taking place between H and I since he was here but I'm not sure what it is exactly or how to interpret or respond to it. I feel like we have a better business connection than we've had in a long while, but don't know if that will be the extent of it or if it will lead to a better dynamic on the personal level. I'm kind of at a loss as to how to deal with it. I want to encourage it but not interfere with his process. Uncharted waters!

2T, this is so similar to what I feel these days. My sitch is nowhere close to what you have. But, I also feel like there is something changing and that I’m in the fog and not sure what to do when things come up (like that story with lipstick).

It seems that your H is feeling more comfortable talking to you. I would give him some more time to process things and I’m sure he will start connecting more. Hope you are having a great weekend too.


M:50
H:52
S28 (my S from previous marriage)
M:17 + 3
BD: 06/12
S: 06/12 - H works in another state
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Thank you, Bright. I'm chuckling about your comment that your sitch is nowhere near where mine is. I really don't know where the heck my sitch is. confused It was somewhat easy when H was in full-blown replay .... GAL, NC, detach, etc ... but now I see some indications that he is processing the damage he's done and has some regret and I have no clue what to do. Just keep on doing what I've been doing and dig for patience and understanding and forgiveness, I suppose. Hey, vets ... help needed here.

I hope you're having a great weekend.

I think I need a little advice. It has to do with BIL and I'm not quite sure what to do. I don't know if I should tell H what's been going on or just STFU for now since it's not really detrimental to the business. Here's the sitch ...

As I mentioned above, we've had several projects going on and one of them is very time consuming and is not complete. It was under way before I took off week before last. BIL was supposed to help, but hasn't.

I discovered that during the time I was off, BIL spent pretty much a whole day on personal stuff (when he could have been assisting on the project). He was also late completing what is his his normal job, but had an excuse that H bought into.

Second, he contacted one of our big customers to inquire about getting a present for his wife. He could have just bought it online, but he contacted their buyer and I have to assume he is looking for a discount (due to our "relationship" with the buyer). That's a big time no-no in our business, is specifically addressed in our handbook and is grounds for dismissal.

Both of those things would set H off.

I don't know whether to relate that stuff to H or just put some duct tape over my mouth. I don't want to look like a "tattle-tale" and I don't want to be put in a place of being between H and BIL (I want to break that triangle), but if I say nothing, I'm going against H's request that I keep him informed about what is going on here.

When all the MLC stuff started, H put BIL in place so H could go do his thing. H is beginning to realize that was a mistake and I believe it was a huge one, but I don't trust my own motivations. If H decides that BIL has to go, that's a huge benefit to me because H would have to come back more or permanently to run the company, which is what I would love to see happen. Duh!

One thing I do know is that left to BIL, our company would go under and the company is our investment for "old age."

I suppose I don't trust myself. If H and I were not married and he was just some dude I was a partner with, I would speak up, but the sitch is more complicated than that.

Maybe I just answered my own question?? IDK. Thoughts??


Me: 59 and holding
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You know, that is a really tough situation. And it impacts so many relationships/lives.

My advice is to sit on it for a few days. Mull it all over. First determine if you even want this to be your role. And then, perhaps ask h how much he wants to know? Maybe say: "what do you see as my role here, in this situation? Am I your eyes and ears in this company?" And I might even go so far as to lay out to him the position you are in; conveying to him the trickiness of it and your uncertainly in your role?

We owned a rental property on the east coast and managed it from a remote area--too far to pop in. At first, everyone worked hard. But, once employees saw how infrequently we returned and that all management was done "honor system," well, it became a quick game of "when the cat's away, the mice will play."

I am just thinking, it's his brother, his wife and part his company. He may want to be made aware or maybe he wants to be oblivious. If it's the former, well, you have direction, assuming you are okay in that role.

It is very difficult to run a business from a remote location. That is just reality. I am not sure you are doing him any favors by acting otherwise?


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2681653 05/29/16 06:47 PM
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Hiya, 2T.

I hope you don't mind this offer of support in your business predicament with BIL. I am manager with employees under my direct supervision and can understand how prickly professional relationships can get at times. In your case, it's a family member which can make things complicated for sure.

In my home office, I have this wonderful booklet on the bookshelf titled Perfect Phrases for Dealing With Difficult People by Susan F. Benjamin. It's saved me many, many headaches. You also might want to Google Ten Tips for Dealing with A Lazy Coworker to get some ideas.

Do your homework and prepare some crib sheets. I always do when I know that a potentially difficult conversation with an employee needs to happen and they've helped me keep on point and on topic. This way I've always had the upper hand and maintaining control of the discussion.

Good luck!

Wonka #2681827 05/30/16 01:48 PM
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Thank you HW and Wonka for chiming in.

HW, I've been mulling this over all weekend. When H was here last, he begged me to keep him informed about what was going on over here and actually used the term "eyes and ears." Prior to that, details about the ops here didn't seem all that important to him. But things have not gone as well as he hoped/expected they would while he's been MIA, so he's taking an interest again.

I've been sending him business updates once or twice a week as he requested. I made it pretty clear to H that I didn't care for the position I was in because I didn't want to affect his R with his brother. H said don't worry about it ... you're my partner and teammate.

Wonka, please feel free to offer support and advice anytime you like! I've already ordered the books! I also will try the crib notes idea. I'm not a confrontational type (although I've learned to stand up for myself over the past couple of years --- imagine that!) so that should help me when dealing with BIL. Thank you for the suggestions.

I wasn't going to send H's update when I knew he was awake unless I heard from him and I did receive a text this morning saying he was back from his trip and that he hoped I was having an enjoyable weekend. I said I hoped he enjoyed the trip and I'd be sending an update email a little later. (If I hadn't heard from him I would have sent the update later so he'd have it in the morning. I didn't want to initiate contact on a day when he wouldn't normally expect to here from me.)

So, I sent the email with all the normal, boring stuff and then moved on to BIL. I started that out with ...

"Now on to a couple of things I've been debating about telling you. I really don't like having to be the one "reporting" on your brother's doings. It's a very uncomfortable place to be. But you've asked me to be your eyes and ears and I figure if you were some other dude I was partnered with, I'd pass this along. And if any other employee were doing this stuff, you wouldn't tolerate it. So, despite my discomfort, here goes."

I then went into the two issues, but only reported facts and didn't offer any opinion at all regarding any of it.

I didn't get a reply, so I have no idea what his reaction is. It will depend on his mood. Sometimes he gets bent out of shape about stuff his brother does and other times he lets it slide. I'll know tomorrow.

Thanks again, HaWho and Wonka, for your replies.

One more week to go and then I invade NYC. I can't wait!


Me: 59 and holding
H: :53
Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown
M: 19
T: 23
BD: 9-23-2013
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2T have you heard back from your H yet? I hope he takes it the right way, at the end of the day he is the one that asked for the updates, isn't he?

How are you otherwise? You must be so excited about your trip, I bet you cannot wait!


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





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I like the way that you advised your h of the normal things w/the business and then introduced the subject of the uncomfortable position that you are in. After all, he needs to be aware of what is going on w/the business you both own. The BIL is taking advantage of the fact that your h is not on site and is doing things that would normally have someone fired over. Besides, you are put into the position of watching and hearing about this stuff and probably can't do anything about it w/the BIL. A very uncomfortable position to be in and I'm sure it can be stressful at times too.

Your h needs time to digest what you've posted to him...he will respond back to you in a bit.

I'm sure you are counting down the days to go to NYC. I do hope that you enjoy yourself and can recharge your battery while you are there.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2682053 05/31/16 11:06 AM
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Hi Esame and Job. Thanks for stopping by.

I awoke to a lengthy text message thanking me for sending the update. He was not overtly "angry" about BIL but did say he was sick of some of his antics and will be addressing that with him.

The bulk of the text was about my hesitancy to tell him things about BIL. His exact words were, "Why on earth are you hesitant to tell me things like that?" He said he didn't understand it and all he could think was that I was afraid he would get mad at me for telling him stuff about his brother.

I texted back that I wasn't afraid of him getting angry at me and that I would try to explain later.

Before I left for the office, he texted and asked if I had time to talk. I said yes and he called. We caught up on some brief business stuff and then on to BIL.

Basically I told him that if BIL were any other employee I wouldn't hesitate to tell him things, but BIL is his brother and I didn't want to feel like I was causing family problems (I've told him this before). I also said that I don't always completely trust my opinions about BIL. I said BIL has his strengths and listed a couple but I just don't like working with him and listed a few reasons why. He didn't hear anything new unless he forgot what I said previously. He probably did.

H took it all in and said he understood that working with BIL wasn't like working with him. He said BIL is just doing "a job" and that's it. He doesn't have the passion or urgency that we had and still have.

That remark didn't really come across to me as defensive of BIL, but more as a way to explain BIL. Maybe he was trying to say I expect too much from BIL?? IDK. I don't think so because H no longer expects what he once did out of BIL. Who knows??

He went on to say to never fear or worry about telling him about things like the ones in the email. He said he needs to know this stuff, he needs to know what's going on in his company, that he's d@*ned glad I'm checking up on things and to please keep telling him what I find.

When he called into the office later he seemed fine. He called me sweetie and he tends to call ladies close to him sweetie when he's in a good mood.

I didn't say this to H, but if H were to fire BIL tomorrow, I'd celebrate. And that attitude scares me because I worry if I'm being objective. I want so badly for H to come back and take control of this company. It needs it. The business has suffered from H's neglect. And I fear that desire colors my objectivity when it comes to BIL because BIL is supposed to be filling H's shoes, so to speak. So there's this question ... is he really that bad or am I making him out to be because he isn't H and can't accomplish what H could/can? I know, that if I wanted to, I could make BIL look like the worst employee who ever walked through our door (actually, it wouldn't be difficult). But I try to be objective, push my personal thoughts aside, think of BIL as just another employee and treat him in the same manner I'd treat other employees (who don't affect my personal sitch). It's difficult. And that is one of the main reasons I hesitate to say anything to H about BIL. What a mess.

Job, I'm really looking forward to the trip. I have day one pretty much planned out but not day two. I may just go where the wind blows me that day.

This afternoon I head over to the dentist to get a crown on that discolored tooth. A prettier smile is on the way!


Me: 59 and holding
H: :53
Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown
M: 19
T: 23
BD: 9-23-2013
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 444
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I love my dentist! He worked magic and my smile looks as good ... maybe better ... than it did when I was 30!

When I was in the dentist chair, staring at the ceiling while the Novocaine did its thing, I thought about the remarks at the end of my last post and it was like a light came on re my anxiety about BIL.

While I don't want to get between H and BIL and I don't want to be the in-law who stirs up issues and discontent in the family, I think I finally realized my real issue.

I want H to come back and run his company because he is a savvy businessman and it would be financially beneficial to both of us. But, like our M, I want him to come back because he WANTS to and not because I influenced him in any way and believe me, I could influence him big time when it comes to BIL's performance and attitude toward H. I want a decision to come back to be his decision and I don't want him to move in a direction that he might later regret or one he feels he HAS to take or, worse, blame me for at some point in the future should he regret coming back.

I see it as two sides of the MLC coin. The personal one where he walked away from me and our M and the business one where he walked away from his business interests on this side of the world.

When I look at it from that perspective, my whole outlook changes. Instead of feeling like a fish flopping around on the pier when it comes to the business, I feel like I have a handle on things. I think I got this. I see it as DBing on two fronts. I think that will help me identify what I should relate to H and what is best left unsaid (the things that don't affect operations or are personal attacks against him). The encouraging part is H seems to be trying to reconnect to the business over here and that is something to work with and something I'm thankful for.

Yup. I got this now.


Me: 59 and holding
H: :53
Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown
M: 19
T: 23
BD: 9-23-2013
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