WAW,still angry, am I indifferent or detached now?

[SH_]

Journaling.....

Detachment.
It is key for all LBS.
It is the most challenging aspect of the process.
Why?
Because of the emotional attachment that so many have while in a relationship.
Many experts in marriage advise of the benefits of healthy relationships maintaining a healthy detachment because it creates a more balance and meaningful relationship.
Many confuse detachment with meaning that a lack of love or care is needed.

I was very emotionally attached in my MR.
4 months ago BD. 2 months ago WAW stormed out and has not lived with me.
I was so emotionally depressed and anxious that I was provided a suicide hotline number by my IC and MD in spite of me saying I was not considering harm to myself.

Yesterday, my IC tells me that my psych eval scores in a range that he does not feel that further counseling is needed for me.

I feel so detached from WAW that I fear I may not feel anything for her. I say I love her.
But what does that mean?
Do I love the memory of her?
Do I love the idea of raising my d5 with her.

I am not sure, as I am not feeling anything for her but dare I say pity?

I do feel some contempt for her as her interactions with d17 do anger me.
2 weeks ago she turned her anger on d17 after an afternoon together at her place.
WAW brother was there with his d. When he left, d17's mother started yelling at her about being rude and making WAW family feel uncomfortable. D17 did not understand the accusation. She was polite when her uncle addressed her, but she was busy with putting things together for a youth girls camp the following week.
Long story short it got heated to the point d17 left her mothers place. We were having a heat wave of over 110 degrees so d17 returned after 10 minutes to retrieve her things and go wait at the library until I could pick her up.
Her mother cornered her and argued further until d17 laid some boundaries.
This shook d17 all weekend. She has struggled with anxiety the past 2 weeks with panic attacks almost daily.

There are other things with d5 that I am seeing that also has me frustrated, but I will not go into details now.

I am continuing to research ways to be a good parent in these circumstances, but am sad that mature adult co parenting does not seem to be an option until she can pull her head out and grow up.

And that is all I have to say about that......

[Phoebe]

SH, I don't think that you should try too hard to analyze your level of detachment vs. some theoretical time frame. It's just another way to doubt and beat yourself up. I really don't believe that there is any part of this process that happens on a set schedule. Whatever happens and when it happens is going to be part of your own process, and it is normal for you. I'd simply say, celebrate your detachment. It is empowering and has insulated you from so much of you WAW's drama. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

It's nice to be a beacon of happiness and positive energy, just don't do it because you are trying to 'be strong for others.' Do it because it's what you really feel deep inside. If that doesn't match the way you feel inside on a given day, then let the beacon facade go for s while.

Sleep well, SH. I admire you very much.

[JksD]

SH, dare I say that you might be in the ILYBNILWY mode? If you were truly detached, you wouldn't be worried about the fact that you are detached. I may be reading this wrongly, but you sound a little numbed? Maybe you could keep your C, but just not see your C so frequently.

I am sorry that your W is acting so immaturely. Your girls are lucky to have one parent who has a good head on his shoulders.

[Phoebe]

Hi SH. I see that we were typing at the same time again, and I didn't see your second post until just now.

I suspect that you love the person you thought you were married to for all those years, but you can't see that person inside your WAW anymore. Maybe she wasn't there for a long time, maybe she never was that person and tried to make herself into that image until she couldn't take it anymore, and maybe she was that person right up until she wasn't any longer. Who knows? The only objective fact it that this new version of her is not someone you would choose to give your love to if you just met her, so maybe the love you feel is simply out of respect for what once was, combined with hope that she might one day be recognizable again. You loved the wife and the life that you thought you had; you don't ned to parse out the whys and wherefores of the love that remains. A big part of it is probably rooted in compassion.

I feel more pity for my WH than anger, too. And disgust and a lot of other d-words, but just not a whole lot of anger. My therapist tells me that the anger is something I need to be able to access more, and perhaps your therapist should be saying the same to you?

And on that note, any therapist who just 2 months ago was concerned enough about you to be handing you the number for a suicide prevention hotline shouldn't be telling you that you don't need their help anymore. Feelings may go underground for a while. You are doing well right now, but is that a permanent state? Only time will tell, and if you have to start over with someone new in a time of crisis that new person will not be the source of comfort or assistance that you may need initially.

Consider finding someone else now, when you are feeling strong, because with the amount of self-doubt that I'm hearing, I think that you still have a lot that you need to work through, and that may simply take time. If nothing else, you need to maintain a relationship with a therapist as part of your support system. Go less frequently, or find someone new, but I think that you should have someone in the event that you need more support on this journey.

I know that you feel good right now, but I'm actually a little worried for you. Know that I am here for you, and wish that I could do more. Set yourself up to succeed, and that means keeping your support system strong and current.

((((((Sparrowhawk))))))

[Vanilla]

SH
HAPPY FATHERS DAY,!!

V

[Vanilla]

A few thoughts if I may

Let's talk about detachment.

The way it's described in the thread here works for many and wasn't that helpful to me.

I am a 'give me the steps' kind of girl, that or who does this and I can model their behaviour and attitude.

So...........



Here is my take on it:

Detachment is observer mode

Detachment isn't neutral or indifferent, you can have every emotion going in spades, you can cycle them

Detachment isn't always calm, you can have washing machine mind and still be detached

Detachment isn't unattached, you can still stand for M, just a new M

Detachment is whatever happens it's ok, it's for the best, it is trusting your higher power

Fine if x, OK if y

Detachment is a state of mind and body, not an emotion or behaviour

State of minds change from day to day, you can be detached on say an S, but not on fins

You can love and be detached

You can love and not be detached, these are not exclusive

Detachment like love and trust is a choice

Your body can hold only one state at a time

You can most use detachment when looping and that is when it seems hardest to do

It is letting go of things you can't control

It is moving forward not always moving on

It is letting go of anyone else having influence over your state

It is letting go of the outcome, whatever happens is good

It is letting go and letting your higher power

--------------------------------

Yes Vanilla I know all that! I understand it and no one gave me the manual. I came in this world as a complex being and no one gave me instructions on this. Great words, I like the intent. I got the message but no manual or U tube video.

All well and good but WTF how do I change state?

How can I shift so I have control over my state when I want it?

------------------------------

Well SH you do this all the time. It's natural for you, you maybe haven't noticed what you do, what works for you. It's in your subconscious somewhere. We can bring that to the conscious mind, learn how we do it subconciously then practice it as a concious habit. It's technique, you just don't yet know how you do it.

Firstly, it is possible to change state at will, mature adults do it all the time, especially when we resist temptation or exercise self control

Each of us is different in our ways of doing this.

-------------------------------

Here are the techniques I use

From 12 steps

Decide to let my higher power take control. I meditate, I do mindfulness and I listen to hypnosis tapes. I have goals and go decent adult GAL.

When I am really stuck I go beat myself up and go to the gym exercising really hard.

Being still or active changes body state. Whatever works for you. The things you do should be positive, drinking to oblivion won't help, or getting lost in TV or online games for instance.

The HALT principle applies

You will have real issues if you are Hungry, have red Anger, are Lonely (not alone) or Tired.

So you might look at converting red anger to white directive active anger.

From NLP or CBT

A freebie charity website get gg, has CBT worksheets for plotting mood and identifying triggers. Nothing of course to do with marriage or counselling it is more about mental health and growing up.

One brilliant thing of course is your gratitude journal.

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The day I learned how I switched states subconciously and then through my own effort was a great day for detachment.

Light bulb

Shift

And even though the abuse in my life with xWH has been terrible and still continues I have the technique.

So what did it?

This is my go to, it's about observer mode. I liberally scatter this all over threads on DB.

It takes practice Yodi one.

But the penny dropped and I use it in my life all the time on everything.

You can Google third position and NLP.

1. Identify yourself and be in you body, present in it, really present. If necessary mindfulness but sit on a chair and feel your toes on the ground and back against the chair. That is you in you in position one.

2. Imagine the other sitting opposite you in the chair. You are watching them, or perhaps they are on the phone spewing like those old fashioned black and white movies when you see two halves of a telephone call.

Then mentally get up and walk around the back of their chair. From that position see yourself as they see you. That's position two. Two versions, you watching you and you and the other is them watching you. You want the former as you don't want to absorb the spew into yourself.

3. Now from behind the chair mentally walk to the door of the room, stand in the doorway in your mind. From that position watch you and the other interacting. You do this as you, like you are a lab research analyst with your pen and board. Just watching taking notes of the lab rats in front of you.

Examine the interaction. Validity? Is the spew valid? How are both parties? What is their body language?


Write on the clipboard in your mind, pluses, minuses and interesting things about the interaction.

4. Walk back to you in your mind from the door to stand beside the you in the chair. Read the notes to you in the chair. As observer then mentally hand the clipboard to the one in the chair. Get back into sitting in the chair feet on the floor, back in the chair reading the clipboard as yourself in position one. Now you are detached.

------------------------------

You can practice this with your posts here, with your boss at work, a difficult coworker, the grumpy shop assistant, the pushy OAP on the train. Heck you can do it watching politicians on the TV.

I can do this in my mind now in 5 seconds or less. It's a technique. Body state is changed.

I am working on this on PTSD.

----------------------------

Eye access cues

EMDR took a long time to work for me and some people get great results through tapping techniques.

But this really helped, I call it rolling eyes. I need to go to the loo (disabled loo is best for privacy) or be private somewhere or people think I am crazy lady V.

I also need the cold water splash and man in the mirror and often to use the loo.

I follow it up with the half secret smile.

This is for when I need the big big guns, because this one jolts
And can make me very energised (not good before bed or if I cant sit still)

Warning lights.

So........

Eyes to the right, eyes to the left
Look down
Look up

Tap the back of your left hand with your right hand

Tap the back of your right hand with your left hand

Repeat 10 times

Close your eyes

Open them wide

Smile at the man in the mirror, I hear Michael Jackson singing man in the mirror, sometimes I sing along in my mind and other times I sing out loud. (Not a nice noise)

I tip my head to my knees, splash cold water on my face the loo if I need.

I leave the disabled loo with a bounce in my step.

This is pattern interrupt in NLP terms. It changes your state quickly.

--------------------------------

That's what I do SH.

That's how I detach by changing body state.

Takes work to do it. If all else fails I dance with lively Music!

Hope that helps a bit

V
-----------------

BTW I have now added fourth position to the third position in some instances. I call this wise sage.

The one with the clipboard leaves the room to an annex meeting room. In it are specialist advisors. For me on most issues that's Nelson Mandela and the great British political Monday Molem. From time to time I have others, philosophers, mathematicians, artists all specialists. I digress.

I read the clipboard to them, listen to their advice and modify my clipboard.

Then I mentally go back to step 4 above.

[Phoebe]

SH, I just wanted you to know that I'm still here and would love to see you journaling a bit more. I often find that journaling gives me an opportunity for sorting my unsettled thoughts. I'll be typing along when some little insight hits me between the eyes.

You sound a bit out of sorts of late. Your choice of words like "hollow" and "numb" and "going through the motions" make me think that you are not accepting that everything that you are feeling is truly normal. You need to let go of the idea that you should be feeling anything other than exactly what you are feeling right now. There is no yardstick by which you should be measuring yourself as you go. There is no right or wrong way, no success or failure, no guidebook to follow. Your journey is uniquely your own. As my therapist tells me, "You can't push the river backward." Let your river take you wherever you need to go on this journey.

I am here and I am still pulling for you and wishing you well, my friend.

(((((SparrowHawk)))))

And just for a pleasant Neature distraction - I can hear a barred owl calling as I type this, asking "Who cooks for you? Who cooks for you-all?"

[Ripe]

JH, I just received this text on my email. I post an excerpt hoping that you might find it useful or, at least, inspirational. Vanilla's post is the one really useful.
It's by Jack Kornfield:

The near enemy of love is attachment. Attachment masquerades as love. It says, “I will love this person because I need them.” Or, “I’ll love you if you’ll love me back. I’ll love you, but only if you will be the way I want.” This isn’t love at all – it is attachment – and attachment is rigid, it is very different from love. When there is attachment, there is clinging and fear. Love allows, honors, and appreciates; attachment grasps, demands, needs, and aims to possess. Attachment is conditional, offers love only to certain people in certain ways; it is exclusive. Love, in the sense of metta, used by the Buddha, is a universal, non-discriminating feeling of caring and connectedness. We may even love those whom we may not approve of or like. We may not condone their behavior, but we cultivate forgiveness. Love is a powerful force that transforms any situation. It is not passive acquiescence. As the Buddha said, “Hatred never ceases through hatred. Hatred only ceases through love.” Love embraces all beings without exception, and discards ill will.
(...)
Wise spiritual life brings us to true connection. Love (rather than attachment), compassion (rather than pity), joy (rather than jealousy), and equanimity (rather than indifference) infuse our awareness. They enable us to open to and accept the truth of each moment, to feel our intimate connectedness with all things, and to see the wholeness of life. Whether we are sitting in meditation or sitting somewhere in protest, that is our spiritual practice in every moment.

[Phoebe]

Where, oh where, has the SparrowHawk gone? Oh where, oh where can he be?

What's the status of the Phoebe Challenge, SH???

Did I overstep?

[SH_]

Where, oh where, has the SparrowHawk gone? Oh where, oh where can he be?

What's the status of the Phoebe Challenge, SH???

Did I overstep?

Still here, just more in observation mode.
You have not over stepped, and I know the advice and challenge you have given are both good and I need to get moving with it.
I feel as if I need a few more minutes to catch my breath. I feel overwhelmed with holding the day to day grind in tact and trying to find a way to create more time for the things I need and want to do.
I am a creature of habit, and my routine has been thrown way out of its track.

But it is time at this point in my life to find a new way to function and live each moment to its fullest.

I plan to be here more with some journaling and an idea of where I am actually heading. Feels like I have no direction most days as the last 20 years of life were headed in a direction that will never exist.
Still in a daze and just trying to pick a road I guess.

Give me a few and I will be proceeding.

Thank you Phoebe for all of your encouragement and ongoing support. It means a lot to me.