WAW,still angry, am I indifferent or detached now?

[SH_]

I am up and at 'em early this morning. I am still sleeping well and soundly without meds and I am waking early on my own. I am looking to up my energy later in the day, but sleep is getting back to normal and feeling refreshing.

Jogging every day again so that is on track as well. Started strength training a couple of days ago, and ouch am I sore this morning. 3 months off have really softened up the old muscles.

Slowly but surely the physical health is returning. I really believe that has helped the mental stability for me. Still a ways to go for that I am sure, but time is on my side.

I am off to get my excercise in before I head to church for my spiritual strength training. I am looking forward to another fine day with my daughters.

May each of you have a good day. Do something that benefits your well being and you will find joy today.

[Phoebe]

You are my SuperHero, SparrowHawk!

I am definitely not up for jogging these days, but I did walk a few miles, even if I didn't really want to do so today.

I hope it's a good day for you and your lovely Ds.

I just had to stop in and tell you something that made me laugh today. I went to call my therapist, put my Bluetooth in my ear and immediately heard a soft soothing voice saying "if you feel your thoughts wandering to the 3 ring sh-t show that is your life..." Priceless.

Thank you for that moment of genuine levity this afternoon.

[SH_]

I just had to stop in and tell you something that made me laugh today. I went to call my therapist, put my Bluetooth in my ear and immediately heard a soft soothing voice saying "if you feel your thoughts wandering to the 3 ring sh-t show that is your life..." Priceless.

Thank you for that moment of genuine levity this afternoon.

I am just laughing at this. This is awesome!

[SH_]

Short journaling for today.

It has been a fine day with my daughters again. We attended church early and then went to lunch.

We came home and did our own little things just hanging around the place. We got online and goofed off with my brother for a bit to say hi and help him not feel so lonely as his wife is still in Alaska trying to wrap up the sale of there home there.

We then went to have dinner with a couple from church that invited us this week. The wife, is a teacher for the young women at church and is facinated by d17 and the things that she does and goals that she has. They are aware of our family situation, and d17 commented on how this couple treated us so well and did not make it awkward at all when d5 would say things about her mother. Very nice couple and it was a pleasant time.

Two difficult moments for the heart today were when d5 brought me a little letter she wrote.

It said " I love my dady and mommy! They keep me safe. They hellp me be happy. They let me go outside to play." She then drew a picture of me, her and her mother.
I smiled and told her I love her and so does her mom.

The next moment was when we returned from dinner I saw that WAW had called. I knew she was calling to speak to d5 as last night she called after 8 and d5 was already asleep.
D5 put the call on speaker so I could hear some of the call from the next room. D5 explained we were at dinner and that is why she was not here when WAW called. I then heard WAW say, he goes out a lot now and has other friends now that I am gone. D5 replied, yep.

She is asking daughters a lot about what I do and who I do it with. I know as d17 has told me.

Well, not really worried or reading into it much because as I see it, she has turned things into a competition. I'll explain that another time as I am going to get some sleep. I have an early morning jog a head of me.

Sleep well everyone. It does the body and mind good. And we need both working well for us these days.

[roist]

I think you are doing great in your situation and especially for the relatively short time you have been here. You have also been very insightful on other people's threads.A great help to many.

Keep up the good work.

Just a quick question?Are you spending a healthy amount of time on thus forum? Sometimes I have noticed people being very active here only to later realise it was not a good balance and something was being neglected. Just food for thought.

If this is not an issue, please use without moderation.TThis really is a useful place.

[Vanilla]

I just had to stop in and tell you something that made me laugh today. I went to call my therapist, put my Bluetooth in my ear and immediately heard a soft soothing voice saying "if you feel your thoughts wandering to the 3 ring sh-t show that is your life..." Priceless.

Thank you for that moment of genuine levity this afternoon.

I am just laughing at this. This is awesome!

This made me belly laugh, Damn you. It hurt.

V

[Phoebe]

Hey, Miss V, anytime I can elicit that kind of laugh from anyone, I am happy, happy!

So, SH, I just reread your musing from a couple days ago. Sorry for the delayed response. Something that I noticed is that you talked about how you wanted any partner of yours to evolve over time. I think that while it is normal to want what's best for our partners, it is not our job to improve them, fix them, or expect them to evolve. Ours is to love them, flaws and all, maybe especially because of those flaws and frailties.

People can and do change, but they will only do it happily and genuinely if they change for their own reasons and for themselves. Just as an example, they may develop interests that overlap ours because they want to do so for their own benefit, and not because we want them to do so. If the benefit they happen to be working towards is to spend more quality time with us, then so much the better. It's not fair to expect them to develop that interest, however.

People work on self-improvement for themselves, not to please us. They lose weight or go to the gym because they want to feel better, not because we tell them they ought to.

Wanting them to be different than they truly are is all about us, and we know where that leads - resentment, distrust, pain. On both sides of the equation.

I guess I'm just trying to point out that maybe this expectation of evolution, which is what you want for yourself, is not fair to place on other people.

I don't know if I'm expressing myself very well tonight, and maybe I'm off base. I'm definitely not being critical, just asking you to consider an alternate perspective. It's just kind of what came to mind when I read your musings.

I hope you sleep well, dear SH. Pencil smiles, chickens in saddles, chocolate thoughts, and lots of other neat stuff!

[OFP]

Disclaimer These are my thoughts today and today only as I reserve the right to change my thoughts as I continue on this journey and attempt to learn and grow along the way. I also mean no disrespect to anyones opinions that may differ or oppose my views as stated. And if the thoughts seem jumbled, incoherent or simply incomprehensible, well, then so be it.

I assume you read what I wrote in Zephyr's thread? Journaling isn't about writing what you want other people to hear. It's not about saying what you want other people to think of you. Write what you truly think, and don't filter it.

So now to my musing.
Do I want to be the person that she was initially attracted to? Should I not be a different person? One that has gown? Progressed? Changed for the better? Made mistakes, and learned form them? Evolved for the better?

Neither reverting to past (less mature) behaviors or pretending to be someone you are not, to win her over, sounds like a step in the right direction, IMHO. Are you a "better" person now? I would assume yes. Why would she not only accept that, but admire it? Unless she feels inside that you have grown and she has not? Does she resent you for it, or jealous of it? I would guess jealous! Which aligns with why she has a problem with you doing things with your kids, shouldn't she be happy that you are finding things to do with your D's? She is likely jealous of your relationship with them. So, she reacts by trying to do more of what she does best, to be immature. To try to "win" the kids over in a way that just doesn't work (being a friend instead of a mother). I feel my xW is doing the same. MIL did the same for my xW after her D. It's a childish response, and unfortunately all you can do is keep being the best role model possible for the kids.

...I find that she may still be to much of that person. I have struggled over the years, as she is very stubborn, and not interested in learning and growth. She is of the belief that people are who people are and they do not change.

Ironic, my xW stated that after BD, she was claiming I was too controlling, and said she didn't believe I could/would change.

Her point seems to be true as I look at her.
I appreciated her for the child like freedom that she would demonstrate in trying to new things. Being carefree. Enjoying the little things. I liked that she was a bit of an outcast, because she did not follow the status quo. She was very family oriented, kind, and happy. She enjoyed the simple things and went with the flow. She never pushed me to be anything except for myself. She was not self righteous, but she had values. She loved kids and I saw she would be a great mother for my children.

So now I look at her and these same qualities have not evolved much and some of them have become toxic over the years in our MR.
Her childlike freedom, is the same as when we met. Just do what ever, and try and fix the consequences later. This created debt for us for half of our marriage, until i wanted to evolve and be responsible. Our health was bad, because she wanted to eat out regularly, and junk food was easier to prepare at home. We both gained a lot of weight and fought health issue due to this. Decisions with her d17 were as a child, and my d17 struggles from issues where she took on the mothers role in our family because WAW would engage in non mother behavior. i did not know this was a thing, but IC shared that there is a term for this in psychology, with me.

Same thoughts here about my xW. When we met, she was extremely immature, and it was a constant battle between us. I think she couldn't keep up so she shut down. My logic and ability to understand frustrated her. I would accept blame on a daily basis, she would never admit blame except in a sarcastic way. Life for us was fun, but some people grow and want to also improve their life instead of just pursuing fun continuously. Some even enjoy working toward a goal. Some people never do grow up.

So many of those things resonate with my story. Are you and I wrong for wanting more? Wanting and expecting is a fine line? Frustration with having continuous childish conversation with someone in their 40's can suck the life right out of you. Having to explain every month that we are out of money, and she continues buying non-necessities, and instead stops paying the bills when the money runs out. Having to explain that diet pills are not the answer when there is NO physical activity and being choked to death by carbs. Having to explain for years that her smoking and having asthma is causing an annual trip to the ER, and then having a Dr. explain the exact same thing to her. The latest was her buying some really expensive vitamins from a coworker at $75 a month, but still no change in diet or activity. I had to explain to her that her smoking through both PG's because she didn't have the will power to quit, meant the kids went through the withdrawals so she didn't have to, wasn't that nice of her?

Your explanation of D17's R with your WAW sounds exactly like the type of parent that creates a codependent child... the child is responsible for trying to figure out how to make the parent happy. I believe I heard the majority of the damage is done by the age of 8. You and D17 can work through that for her benefit moving foward, but trying to protect D5 from it will be the challenge. Possibly ask WAW to attend a coparenting class with you? In the class attempt to bring these issues up? I assume she will immediately bale when any blame gets pointed at her, but may be worth a try.

Back to your evolution as a person.... WAW was likely holding you back. BD not only triggered, but allowed, a steep learning curve to occur for you.

Maybe I started detaching years ago to protect my self, as she did not seem interested in working as partners and progressing in our evolution as people, parents ,and spouses. I hoped that she would see changes and desire to change as well. What happened is resentment and anger took hold instead.

It's a frustrating realization, isn't it? To start off after BD with a crushed self-esteem, thinking you caused the entire problem, only to finally realize later that wasn't the case as all. Hold your head tall, stop blaming yourself, grow at whatever rate you want to grow, but remind yourself that you are lightyears ahead of WAW.

....I guess I'm just trying to point out that maybe this expectation of evolution, which is what you want for yourself, is not fair to place on other people.

The problem I have with this approach... if one partner is trying to be financially smart, the other is wasting money, then what? If one is busy trying to improve life, the other is only worried about the next play activity, then what? Sure, we all need to have fun, but we have responsibilities in life also. At some time we need to stop playing and pay the bills. At some point we need to stop buying and go to work. At some time the kids need to be fed a healthy meal, and not right before bed. If your spouse isn't providing anything to the family, then what? Try to change them, or just file for D?

[Vanilla]

There is a fundamental thinking error in this I believe.

It assumes all positions are fixed which they aren't. We change and so do the dynamics of R.

I am relieved about it, it keeps the spice.

I am amazed at D17, what a wise owl.


I am reading SH, truly I am.

V

[Vanilla]

BTW love the tagine.

SH=Savvy Heart


V