WAW,still angry, am I indifferent or detached now?

[Irish M]

So happy for your D17. Graduation, so exciting. I just got caught up on your sitch. Your W making it about her,, (( shaking my head in disbelief)).I am so glad you D17 saw through it and didn't let it ruin her day. And you SH standing tall.

I like the positive feedback you are getting here. SuperHeroes do need support and you are surely getting great advise. SH as a name change is good. more positive.

D17 and I are re setting a boundary not to talk about WAW/her mother. d17 will share something and then we both get off on a tangent analyzing her behavior, and then we get upset at wasting time and energy on that. Ugh...I have to keep trying harder with the full detaching. Stupid analytical brain of mine.

Funny you say this. My daughters asked for the same. there was nothing positive about it. The discussion only brought up past things their mother did to them and it would upset the day.


Keep doing what you are doing SH. Don't be afraid of slipping or criticizing yourself, it happens. You always seem to get back up on your feet and continue to move forward. That is the goal. That is what you need to focus on.

Cheers
Irish

[Phoebe]

I may have to rechristened you - The ChallengeMeister! You are throwing down challenges all over the place! I can't possibly keep up!

I'm glad to hear that you're still sleeping well. And that anger... well, you know by that it's totally par for the course. And daily jogging, too? Incredible!

I think that it's s great idea to agree with your D17 to limit discussions about your W/her mother. It might be a short-term diversion, and you both need to be able to talk about her sometimes and blow off some steam, but it's best to set limits. For one, she will always by your daughters' mother, so even if D17 is also upset with her right now, it's still her Mom you're talking about. Best to tread lightly.

I hope that you have a wonderful long weekend with your lovely daughters. May it be peaceful and calm, SH!

[SH_]

Thank you for this post Zephyr.

It expresses very clearly thoughts that I have been trying to sort out in my mind in my situation. I am going to post this into my thread as reminder of my current need and efforts to change in me.

hey Sad, feel free to repost...could you fix my typo's thought smile

Typos fixed as per Word spell check.
Thanks again Zephyr

Fear. That has been what has held me in check. And I despise it.

I have been conditioned to not argue with wife out of fear she will get angry or leave or whatever. Call it an extension of my relationship with my mom growing up. Yucky. No more. I do not allow my mother's BS to affect.me at all anymore, I continue to love her and accept her for who she is.

I know now that my desire for children's well being is stronger than anything that she should possibly do to me. I have decided no longer to be controlled like that by that wuss that is my self. The man is not who I want to be and have been pealing off those layers of years of avoidance. Years of avoidance, patterned behavior, uugh.

Think about how much my wife has learned not to trust ME when she knew I was lying to her to avoid a conflict (how many times have you told your wife 'nothing was wrong' when she was asking you...she knew you were lying and that destroys trust over time...sigh)...by holding things in to avoid her possibly getting mad...by omitting details because I was afraid to be seen in a poor light for something I did, even simple stupid crap. Years of this will definitely ruin a trust and I am paying for it trying to gain that side of trust back from her.

Anyways...so for me, just accepting my old behaviors was not in my best interest nor my kids and changing them. Not easy to change crap that took 40 years to shape...my protector self is week, this conflict inside has been raging for a while now and really tearing me apart.

I think about how hard it is for me, then I apply that to our my wife’s and cut her more slack as far as how hard it will be for her to change.... when her learned behaviors to protect herself through those emotionally destructive times in her childhood.

My response (^^^ that response throughout our marriage) has not been healthy. I have enabled her to treat me like $hit for too long because of it. I have not placed boundaries around myself to prevent more harm through our entire marriage and now I am starting from scratch.

Detaching myself from her pain and allowing her to change on her own...her own free will, giving her the space and time to thrive or wallow is where I have been heading lately.

That is not easy. But none of this is.

Thanks for the prompt you have been helping me out more than I can express.

I feel like I need a good swift kick in the Keister from time to time.

I reread this and it is not exactly right...but I don’t have a chance to express perfectly, so here it is.

[SH_]

Irish,

Thank you so much for becoming a part of my support here. You thoughts and feedback have been a nice source of peace.
Especially the SuperHero encouragement.

Teenage daughters can be very mature and a good source of stability for a father. And many tell me it is because the father did so many more right things for them as the grew up.

I tip my hat to you, seeing that your daughter has been a mature support for you as well.

Keep doing what you are doing SH. Don't be afraid of slipping or criticizing yourself, it happens. You always seem to get back up on your feet and continue to move forward. That is the goal. That is what you need to focus on.

Truer words could not be spoken. We only fail, if we choose not to ge back up when we fall. And I choose not to fail each day.

May you have a peaceful and productive day my dear friend Irish.

[SH_]

Some quick updates and journaling.

Yesterday was awesome. I spent the entire day with my girls and we had fun.
We went and purchased a guitar for d17. She wants to learn and her friend plays so she is going to work with her. She is so excited to do this.
We went and saw the Avengers. D5 really wanted to see it as she has been watching some cartoon version and knows several of the characters. Alas, in spite of her excitement she fell asleep about an hour into it on her sisters shoulder. Oh, did I mention it was the noon showing of the movie? D5 does not take naps, so I do wonder why she was so tired.
D17 and I enjoyed the movie.

We then shopped for a bit in the mall and got some summer foot wear for d5 and some clothes for d17.
We then went to dinner at a place that d17 really likes. D5 did not eat much. She did not eat much all day. I am going to keep an eye on her as her sleepiness and not eating is a little out of character for her. But she has been happy and fun the whole day.

We then went to As You Wish. It is a place where you can select form a large number of ceramic things and paint them. D5 loved this so much that she painted 2 things. It was fun to watch her.
D17 enjoyed it, but she is having a difficult couple of days.

Thursday, d17 went to spend some time with her mother. It was the first day this week that she did not have a babysitting job, so she had planned to spend the day with her mother and sister and have some fun.

I received a call from d17 at about 1230 while I was at work team builder. She was sobbing. She was sitting in her mothers car, because her mom ran in to get her sister some some fast food. D17 was upset because she was supposed to be at her internship and would be late because of her mother. She said that they did not have fun today as they spent the day at her uncles house instead of going out tho the movies and shopping. She was mad and sad and upset with herself because she did not want to feel this way towards her mother. She was crying so hard, I struggled to understand her. I listed and consoled her as best I could. She then abruptly told me she need to go.

Later in the evening I got the full story. They were to go shopping, a movie and then her internship, and then lunch. Instead, they went to her uncles house as he had a sore back and went to the urgent care. WAW agreed to tend his d2. So they spent the day there instead of their plans.
This is where d17 got upset. Her mother spends all of her time with her brother and apparently treats he and his family better than our family. D17 shared how her mother gave more attention to her niece than her own d5. She would yell at d5, and focus on her niece. She spend 20 minutes doing nieces hair, but she spends 2 minutes combing d5's hair. She would tell d5 no, and then turn around and permit her niece to do what ever she just told d5 no to. D17 says that her sister is a different person when with her mother than when she is with me. D17 feels so torn as she wants to love her mother and spend time with her, but that she just feels sad and mad when she is with her.
So they were running late for her internship, because first her mother could not seem to remember what time d17 needed to be there in spite of d17 telling her on numerous occasions. Then d5 had a breakdown on on the way to the internship because she wanted chicken nuggets. Apparently, d5 throws tantrums as a way to get attention and get what she wants form her mother, because this is how she gets what she wants.
This is when d17 called me.
Then afterwards they were even more late, because d17 in her anxiety placed the wrong address in her phone and they went to the wrong place.
In the end it all worked out, but d17 is really struggling in spending time with her mom. She is now struggling with making a decision to go with her mom for 2 weeks in July to her moms families house for 2 weeks. She wants to please her mom, but she wants to feel happy and these 2 things are not matching up of late.

So back to Friday. D17 was up and down all day. She is feeling anxious but not sure why. I think it is just the combination of all that is going on.

D5 was an angel all day and so much fun. D17 says it is night and day from when she is with mom, versus with dad. I just try to stay focused on her time with me and pray that God can help her when she is with her mother. It is no wonder kids struggle growing up in broken homes. Ugh, I hate to even think about the emotional stress this is adding up to for d5. But what can I do?

So, I had a great day yesterday and look forward to today with them. D17 is going on a breakfast date with a boy this morning. He is the son of one of the ladies she worked with at the school and who has been a big support for her during this ordeal. I hope she can have fun, but she is nervous. She does not go on many dates.

So, the L's have dragged their feet again with the finance agreement. I should say her L has. STBXW told me she approved the form several days ago. Her L has not confirmed with my L. My L reached out and told me it would be wrapped up yesterday. I never heard back and can not get a hold of him. Grrr this is so stupid and seriously holding up life right now. How is it that it takes just a few minutes and a few dollars to get married, but it takes forever and thousands of dollars to get divorced?

Anyway, I plan to enjoy the rest of this long weekend with my daughters and keep my mind in a good place. I want to outline a better plan for moving forward, and GAL needs to be more active outside of my time with my daughters. I have been slacking on that, and I need more adult interactions and with folks that I can connect with. I need to find more single folks. That is going to be my life for awhile and I need to get accustomed to that.

Have a great day everyone, and be sure to do something for your emotional first aid, and then something for GAL and then Smile. It really does help, in spite of it all.

[BluWave]

Just a drive by hello to SadH & Phoebe (because where one is the other follows, and I love watching the dynamic between you two:) and to say that I hope you both have a fabulous weekend!

I have fallen behind on posting, but I still check up on you guys and love reading what you are up to. SH, I think your investment in your R with your Ds is so wonderful and ultimately matters more than anything in the world! P, your independence and motivation to keep going is something fierce.

Ill keep checking back! ... Wish I had more hours to hide from work and kids so I could read everyone's thread; this is such an awesome community!

-Blu

[SH_]

Thanks blu for the check in and your kind thoughts. I truly appreciate them.

I love the conversation over on your thread. It is interesting. I am reading the book as it relates to the topic. I am still waiting to determine if I fall into the category or if I simply have some of the tendencies. Either way, the points it makes will help me with awareness of things I can work on.

[SH_]

So I am here hanging out as d17 is on her date and d5 is playing with her friends, and I thought that I would document some musing of mine as I got my early morning jog in today.

Disclaimer These are my thoughts today and today only as I reserve the right to change my thoughts as I continue on this journey and attempt to learn and grow along the way. I also mean no disrespect to anyones opinions that may differ or oppose my views as stated. And if the thoughts seem jumbled, incoherent or simply incomprehensible, well, then so be it.

So as I got my jog in this morning, my mind went to an early conversation with my DB coach and where we discussed the man I was when my WAW met me and decided to marry me. This was a challenging question that I stumbled with and over time came up with a great many things that may or may not have been accurate.

You see we met over 20 years ago, and my recollection of who I was vague. Who remembers what they were from so many years ago?

I was a 25 year old college student, struggling financially to get along as I paid my own way through college. I had been involved in several odd relationships that ended because of various things. My best friend had been married a couple of years previously and he was constantly badgering me to find a wife. (side note. His first marriage failed after 5 years and two sons. He remarried 1 year to the date of his D and 2 years ago, his W went wayward and had a PA with a trainer at the gym he and she were going to together. They have 3 kids) So hind site, he was not my best advisor.
I also attended church and the encouragement to marry was a strong one.
Why does any of this information matter? Well I don't know, but it all seemed to factor into the decision to marry.

I seemed to date women that wanted to marry. I dated a woman, that I was close friends with as I dated a friend of hers several years previously. Her friend turned out to be crazy. Clinically. Then we started dating. Her family loved me and my family loved her. We dated for several years. Then she wanted to get married. I was not ready for that at the time and told her I could not. It was hard for her, and she decided to go on a mission for our church for 18 months and told me that she believed the time apart would help me become ready.

She would write to me weekly once she left and I would reply as I had time. I went out on many dates, but not exclusively as I did not feel to be in a place for a relationship at the time. I wanted to discover who I was and figure out my future.

This is when I met my W. It was an odd courtship. I thought she was cute, but I was not attracted to her as I was with most girls the I would date at the time. We did not really date at first, as we would go out with groups of friends and hang out. Our first date was dutch as she asked me to go out.

So with out going on about many boring pre marriage details, I shared with my coach, that my W pursued me. I did not know that i was that different than now, other than I did not show a lot of interest in her initially, and that I even turned down her first talks of marriage. I was still the same that I am with many of the things that she currently blames me for doing wrong and reasons for leaving me.

So the question of what I was that initially attracted her to me are not fully answered and i dare not ask her to find out.

So now to my musing.
Do I want to be the person that she was initially attracted to? Should I not be a different person? One that has gown? Progressed? Changed for the better? Made mistakes, and learned form them? Evolved for the better?

I ask this, because as I tried to think of what she was that I was first attracted to, I find that she may still be to much of that person. I have struggled over the years, as she is very stubborn, and not interested in learning and growth. She is of the belief that people are who people are and they do not change.

Her point seems to be true as I look at her.
I appreciated her for the child like freedom that she would demonstrate in trying to new things. Being carefree. Enjoying the little things. I liked that she was a bit of an outcast, because she did not follow the status quo. She was very family oriented, kind, and happy. She enjoyed the simple things and went with the flow. She never pushed me to be anything except for myself. She was not self righteous, but she had values. She loved kids and I saw she would be a great mother for my children.

So now I look at her and these same qualities have not evolved much and some of them have become toxic over the years in our MR.
Her childlike freedom, is the same as when we met. Just do what ever, and try and fix the consequences later. This created debt for us for half of our marriage, until i wanted to evolve and be responsible. Our health was bad, because she wanted to eat out regularly, and junk food was easier to prepare at home. We both gained a lot of weight and fought health issue due to this. Decisions with her d17 were as a child, and my d17 struggles from issues where she took on the mothers role in our family because WAW would engage in non mother behavior. i did not know this was a thing, but IC shared that there is a term for this in psychology, with me.
The outcast thing makes social interactions with others awkward as she tends to turn folks off as she interrupts, and rarely will listen to others. D17 struggles, because when people ask her questions, her mother will answer for her again making for an awkward situation.

Her family orientation manifested itself as a connection with her birth family. That was typically more important to her than our own family. She was reluctant to create our own family traditions. She would only want to do things the her family always did. She always wanted to contact her family to brag about accomplishments that she had, or flaunt our daughter around to them like a doll or puppy. Her competition to out do or one up her family members was important to her more than anything.
Her love of kids seemed more apparent with other kids. With her kids, it was only when she gets something out of it. Trying to get her attention for small things seemed impossible. D17 says that her mom is more a friend than a mom. She always just wanted to be her daughters best friend. This has backfired in her relationship with her d17.

As for accepting me to just be me. That ended the moment we were married. She was always throwing out what I should do and be. She would tell me what career I should do. She would tell me I needed to buy her a house the we were broke, in college and barely affording rent and food.. She even pushed for having a baby just 6 months into our marriage, even though I wanted to spend more time getting to know each other and building our relationship. Having a baby to flaunt to her family for attention was a big priority for her.

So, at this point, almost 20 years later as I look at her, I see a person that has not evolved much and how characteristics that I was attracted have not really evolved for the better.
As I have changed, I would like to think it is for the better. I have my faults, and things that I need to continue to work on, but I have been and will continue to actively work on them. I work to be a good father. I work to be financially responsible. I work hard to maintain good health, I worked hard to be a better husband and partner in a MR. I read, study go to seminars and put into action plans that have moved me forward in all of these areas. She resents that as she did not want to participate and would put me down for doing these things.

As I watch her over the last few months, I see the same girl from 20 years ago, behaving in the same manner, only now her behavior has pushed away her husband and daughters and she has simply returned to the family that she started with.

As I started DBing, it was with the hope to save my marriage. I thought I wanted to be he man she was initially attracted to. But I saw that I would never be that 25 year old young man that was trying to find his way in the world. Nor did I want to be that man. I wanted to be a better man than that. I have been a father since I was that man. I have lived in a marriage that was more broken for years than I was willing to accept. I was a man that was fighting for marriage, because my family was the most important thing to me, and now I see that she stopped fighting more years ago than I am willing to admit.

Maybe I started detaching years ago to protect my self, as she did not seem interested in working as partners and progressing in our evolution as people, parents ,and spouses. I hoped that she would see changes and desire to change as well. What happened is resentment and anger took hold instead.

Now is the time to continue to change and evolve and not simply be the man only a fool would leave, but it is to attract the woman, that a good man, father and future husband deserves to continue to evolve with.
My d5 deserves to grow up in a family unit that is governed by the rules loving and good family functions by. I will foo everything in my power to create and set that up for her.
I deserve to have a partner that I want, not need, that I can serve and do so with out expectation. In return, that person will accept me for who I am, and inspire me to be a better version of me through ongoing evolution and will put in the work to do the same.

It may be years down the road, and I am not sure what it will look like, but I know as I pray, work hard, continue to work to be a better father and man, this will be the next leg of my journey.

These are my musing for me today and for today, these are the thoughts that I will use to proceed forward in these difficult times for my family.

I challenge everyone that reads this to look inward and evolve. Evolve to be a better person, parent and future spouse, regardless of how that future looks. You will be attractive to the right person when you do so. Whether it be your current spouse or another person. But I believe all on these forums are fighting for a very important thing. If you put in the work, belief and trust that it is possible you will be blessed.

May god bless each of you and your families this day.

[Phoebe]

Very interesting musings, SH, and they say a lot about you and how you have changed over time. I'll be back with more tomorrow, but my meds have kicked in and I can't keep my eyes open.

Thank you so much for keeping an eye on me today and lending so such support. See you there on a day like today means so much to me.

[SH_]

It is my pleasure to be there for you Phoebe. I am encouraged at how you got through the day and I see a shift in your higher power as Vanilla would say.

Sleep well Sweet Phoebe and I look forward to your thoughts on my musings of today.

Pleasant dreams