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P, I think what you are doing is great. I can't see how it would benefit you to add on that stress right now. You have all the time you need to worry about the logistics, and he is not doing anything to push you.

It sounds like our Hs and their "mommy issues" might be similar. Yikes. Hindsight is always more clear. I realize now tho, that it was not my responsibility to read his mind. It was up to him to tell me what he needed and where things were going wrong. It was his choice (poor coping) to run and ultimately it did not serve him well. I think people learn better with their own consequences rather than being told where they are going wrong; I try and apply this to my parenting too.

So MC was different yesterday. We had not gone in almost 2 months and this was a single appt. She doesn't have a regular time slot right now and in a way I am glad. This appt was different. For the first time since piecing, we decided to take a step back from working on things in the M and to start focusing more on ourselves. Detachment says what!?! Doesn't it always come down to that?

So I left feeling slightly sad. I think he has been wanting this for awhile, but I have struggled to disengage from the triggers and cycling. H was trying to reach out after the appt, wanted to spend time with me, and was doing lot's of temp checking. I took a giant step back, made other plans, and then went out last night with friends. He held on tight when I came home. I am not trying to punish him or ignore him, but I am feeling naturally like I want to protect myself and create some space right now.

This is not a separation, but an acknowledgement that we are going in some of the same circles and repeating patterns. It is hard to piece when there is residual hurt and anger. Which is why I keep saying over and over and over--work on you, DB for you, detach for you. This is what will make your relationships stronger.

So I did my first watercolor painting. Went to my meeting. Then went out with friends last night. I have several nice plans today as well. I am giving myself a break from thinking about H. Something I could have done a lot more of before.

-Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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Thanks Blu.

Take a minute and read up on mine, I'd love to get your feedback.


Me: 38 y/o
W: 38 y/o
Together: 10 yrs
Married: 7 yrs
S1, D3, S15(hers previous, I adopted May'15)
WBD: Sep '15
W's EA confirmed Oct'15
W Filed Dec '15
Personal awakening Mar'16
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Originally Posted By: BluWave


Unbowed, thank you for checking in. I will look at your thread. We cannot mention other book titles here, but I think we are on the same page. This was a huge eye opener for H and me. He has read it more than once. It also helped me understand and appreciate his struggles, which I was blind to for many years. I will say, he has done a good job of making personal changes. He definitely tells me when he doesn't like something or agree with me and he holds firm on it. This has proven challenging during piecing, as he was the cause of a lot of destruction, but as I come to accept what happened, I can appreciate that these are necessary changes for him.


Great, Blu. I think we're on the same page too. I hope he keeps working on his issues. I honor your willingness to (carefully) work with him, despite all he's done. My guess would be that his actions were largely influenced by his former inability to stand up to you. If he had been able to set boundaries, he may not have had to sneak away. If he had known it was destructive not to stand up to you, and if he had been confident that he was capable of being loved even if he didn't try to seek approval from you, it's very possible he would have never done the things he did. I know I was completely blind to what being a nice guy can do to a relationship.

But I primarily feel your pain being the one who has been rejected and so badly treated. I personally hope I never fall prey to the desperation of seeking someone else and dishonoring my family and marriage because I directly address my issues.

Hang in there. I have hope for both of you!

I'm curious. How did knowing about his new work affect the way you feel about him? Does it make his behavior changes easier to understand and bear, or does it feel forced and fake because he's following a deliberate behavior change script?
As for your husband, given his nice guy ways, I suspect that acknowledging his errors and working on them while not falling into a depression feeling bad about himself now that he knows will be a challenge.

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CRW, I wrote a response on your thread; hope I wasn't too harsh.

Unbowed, thanks for checking in. This has been tough--a gut wrenching, mud-slinging, war path. I have read that if a M can recover after an A, that there is chance that the M can be better than before. That is if both people are willing to look at themselves and do the hard work--soul searching, etc--then they can come back and bring more to the M, as stronger individuals. I cannot attest to that yet, but hope to some day. Actually that idea is the only thing that has given me hope. Because I know that I don't feel the same way about him as before, so I need to believe that it can be as good or better, but what I only know now is that it is different.

H has to live with what he has done. I have contributed to the breakdown in intimacy and trust as well--and I have made poor choices--but the A was the straw that broke the camels back--and that is what tore us apart for a year. H is in the difficult position of having to live with the shame and regret of what he has done, and knowing how many people he has hurt. He is also in the position of earning back my trust. He also recognizes that he cannot blame me for what lead to the A--it was his responsibility to let me know what he needed and take a stand, and to not just run and justify it based on resentment. He is doing this while simultaneously recovering from nice guy syndrome. So he made this royal $hitty mess and now he has been working overtime trying to clean it up. He is easily worn down and popping too much Excedrin.

So what do I think of the recovering nice guy? Honestly, at face value, he gets on my nerves. Im still trying to get used to him. One of the reasons I fell in love with H, is because of his gentle nature, his open-mindedness and his flexibility. So trying to forgive someone and trust them when they have pulled this stunt, and then having them constantly challenge you, is well, ugh, frustrating to say the least. Not the dude I married, not at all. But, I recognize that this is all necessary and that without it, he cannot be free to be himself, and then who am I really married to?

I don't want to be married to a doormat. I didn't ever think H was a doormat--quite frankly, I just make decisions and get things done with or without other people--but he FELT like a doormat. He felt powerless and suffocated. I think it perpetuated the cycle, because I started to lose respect for him. I am a strong woman and I need and more so want a strong man. So, there is no more mr nice guy; he is gone and that marriage is over. I accept that. I am just still learning to fall in love with this guy. Sometimes, yes, sometimes he gets on my nerves, but in time I feel that things could be better for all of us.

-Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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Blu,

Thank you so much for your insights. And I'm so impressed by your strength. I don't know if I could survive the A if it happened to me.

I appreciate your insights about thinking of one marriage being over because you married someone who used to be someone different. And now you are trying to continue your marriage with a new version of that person, who is working on getting rid of some of the qualities you fell in love with.

God this stuff is so hard.

I think my wife is having to decide whether she likes the less nice me too. She ultimately couldn't be intimate with someone she felt was a doormat, but is having a hard time getting used to the person who she's used to be able to bowl over.

I really hope you two come back changed but stronger. The good news is you guys both have that goal.

You give me hope, because you have managed to make it this far with all that you have gone through. That you are piecing and keeping your marriage together. That you are all in.

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Blu--

I've been reading your old posts. Thank you so much for your continuing advice about doing everything, including DB, for oneself. That can be hard to comprehend. After all, aren't we DBing to save a marriage, to save "us."

But slowly the concept is seeping though my LBS mind. To work on ourselves, don't focus on the marriage, and our spouses can choose to get on board.

And you are right, the pleading and chasing just make things worse. I for one, felt so powerless and pathetic when my chasing and begging just kept being rejected.

I am trying to internalize the counter-intuitive idea that detachment and space actually may be whats needed.

But through this process, because of all the pain, and loss of the future I dreamed about, it's hard to know if the DBing is really for oneself. It's a fine line. Hopefully clarity comes with time, as it seems to have been for you.

You also made the strong reminder that when we all come back together, both parties have to be fully committed. So I'm in that position where I don't believe she's fully committed even though she says she wants to keep working on things.

I hope you're right about the concept that the marriage can come back stronger than ever. Because my new thoughts are that if I make it back with my W, that I won't accept what I call "table scraps."

I want intimacy, honesty, partnership, friendship and love, fully and equally. All while understanding the need to avoid codependency, and stay independent but connected.

Finally, what part of the DB or your own 180 worked best to bring him back?

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Blu, I really can relate to so many of the things you say about your relationship. I really am starting to think that we married really similar men. Almost everything you say is familiar.

Who knows what the future holds, but hindsight has shown me a lot of things that I did not realize about H. It's sad. I wish he could have told me what was going on but he was too busy keeping the peace. What a terrible loss for us both.


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
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Hi BluWave,
Just finished reading all of your threads from beginning to end, looking for guidance and calm.
Happy to hear you are doing so well and congrats on starting the watercolor hobby.
I saw my H for the second time today since he left April 8.
I've been a bit of a wreck for the past 6 hours. I made a fire, I read your posts, I took a bath but mostly I've been crying.
Would really love your input on a couple things when you have time.
having gone dark for so long and only communicated by email and then only seen each other twice, it's been easy to live in my head, my meditation and prayer, reading and listening to Marianne Williamson etc and living in a state of hope and I can do this...I am awesome, we love each other, he's insane and will come to his senses and it's only 6 weeks...
But today I just felt a total loss of hope.
We discussed the living on our property idea again. He's been looking for a place but hasn't found anything, and can't really afford it now.
The first thing he said today was how we need to 'clarify what our relationship is' if we were to live on property together and if it would be possible to live near each other.
I said I was thinking that I would love to rebuild our friendship - but he interrupted me mid sentence (after the word 'rebuild') and said he didn't want to rebuild our M.
I said that's not what I was saying, I meant our friendship.
Somehow at some point I don't know how the heck I got onto this topic but I said I was 'curious' how he could have sent me such a sweet message the Sunday before our big fight about coming to cuddle at nap time, but then LEFT me a few days later?
This was my first serious screw up in terms of the DB rules.
That IS R talk!
He said he appreciated everything we had but..then he said 'I don't want to process'...and i said ok, we are not processing.
At some point near that juncture he mentioned a big fight we had in Amstedam 6 years ago when he threatened to leave me (he was really depressed at that time) and said something to the effect that he warned me I was 'digging my grave' or putting a nail in the coffin of our R.
Lovely.
Since he has suffered from depression most of his life, has been better in last year, he does use pot to help his moods.
I realized today that last week he was definitely stoned when we saw eachother and he was softer and more open. Today he was not stoned and was harder and colder.
Last week he went on about this dream he'd always had of living on our property together in 'radical domesticity' but today he just seemed distant and hesitant.
I do commend myself today for being cool, calm and collected, even though I said a couple things that weren't that helpful, but considering my track record thus far of no pursuing behaviors etc. I am doing ok I think.
I just totally crashed once I got in the car to leave. Cried the whole drive home. Suddenly I felt like I was back at square one, day one.
While I've been doing so much work on myself, seeing my IC and feeling stronger, I feel I've just lost my momentum.
Nothing makes any sense, nothing feels like it has any meaning.
I don't want to live my life without him really. Yes, he is being a jerk now, but that hasn't decreased my love.
The thought of never going camping together, or to india together or never cuddling with him etc. tonight just hit me so hard.
And he mentioned, not sure how this came about, that what if he started dating - I'm not looking but you would have to be prepared for that.
WHAT ? and that I may want to date as well. DATE!????
you've got to be kidding. Last thing on my mind.
Is this a way to try to push me away further?
And when he talked about the 'friends' thing and then said - 'well you're still wearing your wedding ring'
In what part of his fogged up mind would he think that because he left ME that I would just take off my wedding ring?
I am so confused and angry and sad.
It's exhausting.
The worst of today is I ended up feeling like this is all my fault, that I dropped the ball and that if I'd done ? right he wouldn't have left...I know intellectually this isn't true, but I can't help going back to that week and thinking if only... this or that, and we hadn't had that fight then he'd still be here.
I take the vows I made seriously and now feel like he obviously doesn't. it's so frustrating as this is a man that works in the caring professions as a mental health nurse and everyone in town thinks he is SOOOOOOOOO wonderful.
They don't see the side that isn't.
I did also ask him that I would appreciate if he respects my privacy and not talk about our situation unless necessary for his own mental health to random people. We live in a very small town. THat was a big deal for me as I'm not used to asking for those kinds of boundaries.
I know I just need to get some sleep and tomorrow will be a better day. But I do feel if I can't hold the vision of the person I want to be along with the vision of our M working out, I just feel lost.
I find it too difficult to believe that this person with such a big heart and so much love for me so recently could be like this suddenly.
I keep seeing all the gifts he's given me over the years, he's an awesome gift giver, clothes etc. and just feel like a failure, like I totally screwed up the best thing that ever happened to me.
Don't know where to go from here. I haven't given up.
Thanks for all your awesome posts and inspiration for all of us here in the dark.

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LandC, we all have our down days.

I know you want your H right there where you can interact with him, but I wouldn't push him if he is resistant. With co-dependency, it might be painful but better for you two to work on issues while living very apart. This is a tough time full of ups and downs; hot and cold running H's! I can't even count the times I've given up hope, only to read something here the next hour that brought hope back, or have a conversation with H that gave me insight into his feelings or crisis or even a slight movement forward from him. I guess the idea is to try to place those memories in the "memory file" for now and move forward with your life and focus on you (I know, I know...most overused phrase in DB Land). It does get easier, but there will still be those triggers that bring on the memories and then make you miss them terribly and then bring you to tears. Just persevere. It will get better.

I'm actually finding that listening to my H and encouraging him to talk, to actually learn to explain his feelings or actions, is helping him to understand himself more. It may not bring him back to me, but I see him coming to realizations about his own issues. And that in itself makes me happy for him. As for me, I have to take care of myself, as well.

You can do this, LandC. It hurts, but you will grow. Just keep your door cracked open for H a bit in case he follows.


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

Kindness, kindness, kindness.
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Hi Cil,
This is confusing because now I'm posting on Bluwaves thread - shall I be putting this elsewhere?
Thank you for your kind words. I have been such an emotional wreck since yesterday I don't know what the heck I'm doing.
I read all of your first thread and started last one but haven't finished.
So many things are hurting right now.
I feel I screwed up yesterday for the first time - even reached out to hold his hand - eee gads!
What I am not clear on and is making me feel so angry right now is that I have so little information about why he really left besides the fact that he thinks I increase the stress in his life ... ok, won't go into analyzing that right now, I am so frustrated ... When is it ever time for me to be able to tell him how I AM FEELING!??? How I am hurting?
Should I be apologizing for my part if he is still saying he just wants to be 'friends'?
So much anger last night, feeling like he BAILED out and in a way it's made me lose some respect for him...as I never saw him as someone who would give up on a commitment as serious as a M.
I stood by him for YEARS through his suffering from depression - even though I didn't always do the right things and of course tried to 'fix' him until I figured out the right things to do.
The past couple years have been really hard for me, not finding my way since we moved back to our home town from going away for 2 years to school. We always had a big goal - built a house, etc. but since 2014 kind of floundered.
I just feel like a failure today - I didn't find a way to make more money, we filed for bankruptcy in 2010, we may lose our house...kind of feels like everything is falling apart.
well, it is!
I woke up crying today and then had to go on my long walk in the desert and meditate and write and read my DR book. It's only 6 weeks since he left and so I know this is still early in the process. I must get a grip and focus more on my GAL and finding a better job. There is a lot of financial insecurity now along with all this M stuff.
Just feel so stuck - I know I am focusing too much energy on him and need to snap out of it.
He always said one of his goals in life was to have an 'open heart' and now it is just closed to me.
Another thing is we live in a very small town and I have been very reclusive - I don't want to see anyone I know as I'll likely just start crying if they ask how I am.
I mostly talk to my IC and some friends by phone who live far away.
I am rambling. Time for me to focus on the changes I need to make and let go of the outcome of our M for a bit.
It really messed with my head when he looked surprised and then commented that I am still wearing my wedding ring.
Well, I am still married, I still love him, I haven't lost hope and is that just his guilt?
Would he feel he is then 'off the hook' if he saw I'd taken mine off?
It almost felt like he interprets me wearing my ring as pursuing behavior! I don't understand how someone as smart as he is, who is also in the mental health field, could even ask that question...or is it just too hard for him as it reminds him of his guilt, that he LEFT ME.
When I asked him about respecting my boundaries and not telling people much about our situation that it is private etc. he said I should trust him, but depending on the person and how he felt, he would say we are 'separated.'
This pissed me off as well, no, YOU LEFT ME.
big difference. We are separated because HE separated, not because I did.
oh dear, the angry self is coming out of the closet, I must calm her back down.
Thank you for your kinds words and I will catch up on the rest of your thread...hope you are doing as well as you can be!

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