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CWOL #2678986 05/19/16 11:19 AM
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JujuB Offline OP
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Thanks cwol. I was thinking about stuff like if son was sent to er and I had to sign papers. I never thought of travelling. But yeah that could be a problem.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2679392 05/20/16 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: JujuB


I will have to catch up with your threads... but I imagine the scary part of reconciling is understanding what the true motivation for spouses desire to return is? And will this happen again? And coming to terms with spouses character and code of ethics and morality.



I went for a long run today...ok, not really but a 20 minute run and was thinking about this;

It's often said that for the walkway spouse to want the LBS back they need to value them again. In order to value them, they need to see the LBS as moved on, detached, possibly dating others.

Why would I want someone that only values me when I no longer care? When they realize that I am done? I think that says a lot about their dysfunction and insecurity, not mine.

I don't want to be in a relationship playing games. I want to be able to confide in my husband about my insecurities and anxieties and fears without being devalued for having them and especially without having them used against me. I wanted that from him as well. I never wanted a relationship based on superficiality and fakeness (is that even a word?)

I often feel like my husband mistook my honesty and desire for a companion as neediness. I don't really need him and never thought I did.

Just rambling now cause it's Friday night and I have no GAL activities smile


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2679395 05/20/16 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: JujuB
[quote=JujuB]

I went for a long run today...ok, not really but a 20 minute run and was thinking about this;

It's often said that for the walkway spouse to want the LBS back they need to value them again. In order to value them, they need to see the LBS as moved on, detached, possibly dating others.

Why would I want someone that only values me when I no longer care? When they realize that I am done? I think that says a lot about their dysfunction and insecurity, not mine.

I don't want to be in a relationship playing games. I want to be able to confide in my husband about my insecurities and anxieties and fears without being devalued for having them and especially without having them used against me. I wanted that from him as well. I never wanted a relationship based on superficiality and fakeness (is that even a word?)

I often feel like my husband mistook my honesty and desire for a companion as neediness. I don't really need him and never thought I did.

Just rambling now cause it's Friday night and I have no GAL activities smile



This is coming up in my R.

H got tired of being in a marriage with someone who didn't desire him the way he wanted, so he emotionally detached.

Now, my libido and desire for him is greater than it's ever been.

It seems like my libido dislikes being pursued and becomes alive only when there is great uncertainty. I hate that, and wish I could change, but don't know how.

Right now, H feels he can only stay if we implement a drastic change to introduce uncertainty into the marriage--enough uncertainty to keep my libido high but not enough to make me miserable.

Any ideas on how to do that?


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
JujuB #2679397 05/20/16 06:26 PM
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Agreed J.

Sandi talks a lot about how women 'test' men in relationships, and how men have to pass those tests and not let women control them or manipulate them, because if they do the women will lose respect for the man and eventually it leads to resentment, dissatisfaction, disinterest, and potentially betrayal. During the dreaded 'man cave' thread many guys talked about how expressing disinterest and being a 'bad boy' in the sense of not caring about what the woman thought or wanted was a good way to get lots of women and stay in the drivers seat of a relationship.

If that's how relationships work then I'm not interested.

I get that it's not healthy to be co-dependent, to get so caught up in someone else's feelings that you put them above everything, that you feel your only sense of worth comes from how they value you. That's not necessarily good either. And I get that if you enable someone it can bring out entitlement and other negative feelings.

But to me if I have to act a certain way, or be emotionally unavailable, or swagger around, or keep my woman in 'her place', well, it's not worth it.

I am not a social butterfly. I am not confident with women in the sense that I can't project this belief that I believe every woman wants me and should fight for me. I am not 6'2". But by god, I have confidence in myself. I know that I am a deeply passionate, sensitive, intelligent, loyal, brilliant, loving person, doing amazing things with my life, and that has the determination and commitment to bring a lot to any relationship I am in...which life-to-date has been two because I am a one woman man and don't feel entitled to play the field and find a perfect match, but rather to build a perfect near match with the one special someone that shares my character. That is me. And if that doesn't work for women and they'd rather fight over the alcoholic that gets her excited and keeps her challenged, hey, I can respect their rights to choose, but I am not interested in competing for someone that's not interested in who I am and what I do bring.

That all said, I understand being a spouse is a job to a degree. I mean, if a man desires his wife to dress nicely, it would be nice for her to choose to do that for him, because she knows it matters to him, and she loves him enough to do it even if she wouldn't normally dress sexy or girly. Likewise I may at times have to do things, act in ways, prioritize things, etc, that my spouse would want from me. If I learn that it makes her feel safe for me to act tough and macho when she's feeling vulnerable or if she struggles with entitlement and I learn that she needs me to call her out when she's acting like a brat, I will do that. But it will be out of understanding, love, and the mutual needs of our team. Not because I am selfishly trying to manipulate and control the dynamics.

Maybe I'm not articulating myself well, but yeah, this just goes with my theme of why I'm put off of relationships. And the idea that if we don't somehow do all of these things right betrayal and divorce is the natural outcome doesn't tell me I need to play the game better, it tells me I don't need to play the game at all.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Rose888 #2679399 05/20/16 06:35 PM
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JujuB Offline OP
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I will come check out your thread.

We are actually opposite in that regard. My libido comes from being heavily pursued and desired. My husband had some physical problems though. Funny I thought all women were like me. Thanks for posting.

I love topics like this smile


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
Rose888 #2679400 05/20/16 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: Rose888
Originally Posted By: JujuB
[quote=JujuB]

I went for a long run today...ok, not really but a 20 minute run and was thinking about this;

It's often said that for the walkway spouse to want the LBS back they need to value them again. In order to value them, they need to see the LBS as moved on, detached, possibly dating others.

Why would I want someone that only values me when I no longer care? When they realize that I am done? I think that says a lot about their dysfunction and insecurity, not mine.

I don't want to be in a relationship playing games. I want to be able to confide in my husband about my insecurities and anxieties and fears without being devalued for having them and especially without having them used against me. I wanted that from him as well. I never wanted a relationship based on superficiality and fakeness (is that even a word?)

I often feel like my husband mistook my honesty and desire for a companion as neediness. I don't really need him and never thought I did.

Just rambling now cause it's Friday night and I have no GAL activities smile



This is coming up in my R.

H got tired of being in a marriage with someone who didn't desire him the way he wanted, so he emotionally detached.

Now, my libido and desire for him is greater than it's ever been.

It seems like my libido dislikes being pursued and becomes alive only when there is great uncertainty. I hate that, and wish I could change, but don't know how.

Right now, H feels he can only stay if we implement a drastic change to introduce uncertainty into the marriage--enough uncertainty to keep my libido high but not enough to make me miserable.

Any ideas on how to do that?


Pardon the hijack J, but I wanted to respond to Rose.

Rose, I think that's fairy tail stuff. The idea that he's supposed to be perpetually satisfied sexually while you are perpetually stimulated is not a realistic marriage model. It might be that way at times, honeymoon phase, make up sex, or whatever. But it's not going to sustain throughout a marriage.

What I'd tell him is that you don't make your marriage conditional upon sexual satisfaction. Now, maybe your satisfaction with your marriage could hinge on that. As a man I can admit that I might get to the point that I would literally hate my life for months at a time if I was being neglected, and while that's not ideal, it can be a true, true challenge. But at NO point is divorce appropriate, and if the idea exists that looking for another woman is even a consideration, that's screwed up. And he might as well go, because if he believes that marriage is conditional then it won't last anyway.

What I'd tell you is that love isn't a feeling, it's an action. While I wish your libido would be a perfect match, I am a subscriber to the "just do it" philosophy. Namely there are 1,001 things in marriage we do even if we don't feel like it. We host parties for people we aren't crazy about, we go to concerts because our spouse likes them, we watch TV shows that make us want to light our hair on fire because it's together time, we work 50 hour a week jobs and climb out of bed at 6AM to fight traffic and get hung up on by angry customers to pay the bills, we clean up puke from our dog, we mow lawns, do laundry, etc, etc, etc...all because we are a team and these things need to get done. Well, to a man sex is typically the #1 most important priority, #1, #1, #1. And if you two are a team, then it had better be a top priority to you as well, whether you FEEL like it or not. So make the darn time, and act as if, and do your wifely duties. I know that will enrage a lot of women and maybe this is my last DB post, but frankly the idea that men and women have equal sexual needs and sex should happen when both parties want it and men should understand that if he's neglected and dismissed then he needs to do more chores because he's not meeting the invisible bar...that's BS. It's a basic foundational need for a man, and it can't be conditional any more than feeding your children supper at night.

No, it's not black and white. As I said, a man needs to remain committed to his marriage even if he gets cut off for years. The same way a woman needs to remain committed to her marriage even if her husband stops talking to her for years. In my mind they are the same level of severity. And I've dealt with both in my failed marriage.

Bottom line, the commitment is required and unconditional, and from there both people need to do their part unconditionally as well. Not because they want their partner to reciprocate, but because it's the right thing to do. And if two people both do this there is a chance it will work.

Trying to find a prescription drug that puts you in the mood to honor your obligations, though, seems like a long shot.

Sorry all, just a little fiery tonight. Love you all.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues126 #2679404 05/20/16 06:49 PM
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And J, we've been down this road before, I understand there is a large number of relationships in which this is reversed and that it is especially difficult because it is minimized in society.

This goes BOTH ways and isn't gender specific. I don't want to start a war on this, we've talked about it before. I can't compare how it feels to me with how it felt to you. I think this is a monumentally important factor for both genders. I was talking this way strictly because it was Rose asking.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues126 #2679407 05/20/16 07:02 PM
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JujuB Offline OP
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I think sex is monumental issue in relationships. I separate it from love languages. . I still feel a lot of compassion for husband because i understand how that would effect the male ego. But i also kind of just gave up. stopped flirting and pursuing and dressing nice. Nagged about eating healthy and exercise and changing job to decrease stress. When we first met I was shamelessly flirtatious and more of the pursuer. I think he wanted that from me again and perhaps that was his need. Hard to be like that under circumstances though.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2679408 05/20/16 07:08 PM
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Rose,


I will try to catch up on thread. Without doing so...

Maybe it has something to do with excitement from the emotions of the ups and downs?

Could you and husband maybe reproduce that another way that is more healthy?

Maybe a sex therapist could help? Role playing?


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2679409 05/20/16 07:17 PM
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I don't think it's an ego thing J. I think it's a condition that must be met to be able to experience the feeling of love.

Let me pose a question. Suppose someone got your email address and started emailing you at night. They didn't know anything about you...not what you looked like, not your name, not your interests, not your job...NOTHING. But for some reason they decided to email you every night and told you everything about themselves. You learned their hobbies, their fears, their dreams.

Now one night this person emails you and tells you they love you.

Would it be possible for you to feel loved?

How could they possibly love you when they don't even understand the first thing about you?

Well, for me and I believe many men, that is the role of sex.

Sex is on their minds all day long. It is a constant desire beyond anything else. It is a desire that defines their existence. It shapes their view of the world. It is their identity.

So if a woman doesn't meet her husbands sexual needs, either she doesn't care if he withers and dies, or usually she simply has no clue how it feels to be a man. For me specifically I never felt any love from XW, because it was like she didn't know the first thing about me, and that she just treated me like a robot, and put a mask over the man I was and pretended I was the person she wanted me to be.

Then on the occasions that she tried to be physically loving she felt uncomfortable, or pressured, it wasn't sexual intimacy in the way she thought sex should work in a relationship (when we BOTH desired it, when she felt like it, when conditions arose that made her feel like it, etc). But when she was physical with me it made me feel VERY loved, even when she wasn't into it. She'd say "you wouldn't want me to be with you if I didn't feel like it" and I would be like, "um, yes", because not only did it still make me feel loved, it was actually profoundly meaningful that she'd love me because I needed to be loved, and simply because she was in the mood. The same way I didn't have to be in the mood to take her out for Valentine's day or get her flowers.

I need to give up and accept that maybe men and women's skies are so different not only won't we be able to see the color the other party sees, we might not ever even understand how different those colors are. I'll breathe deep. It's just flash backs from the pain of my marriage. It's over now. I don't have to fight the fight anymore. I'll go shoot some pool and it will pass... wink


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
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