Some days are better than others

[sandi2]

Getting tired of this bullshit fast. When do I get to stop being the strong one and have her do some of the heavy lifting again....

Well, I don't blame you for being tired of it. What I don't understand is why you sit back and watch her as she entices others to have an A.

You told her an open M would not work for you and that you would have to S. However, she proceeds to do whatever she wants, while you continue sleeping with her and nonverbally condone an open MR. In the meantime, she continues to benefit from the M.

Sounds like a great setup for a woman who wants to be a girl gone wild. And face it, that's what she really wants to experience. She told you she wanted to be free to do what she wanted with other guys. It's not about OM #1, 2, or 3......she wants to be a girl gone wild! And frankly, I just don't see her being attracted to a guy who meekly waits, hoping she'll see what she has a home.

I am not sure how you see this as you being "strong". Neither do I understand why you think she will ever do any heavy lifting as long as she is engaging in this lifestyle.

What action does she see in her H that would cause her to see as strength and male confidence?

[EDF]

I absolutely appreciate your insight. I haven't revealed to her that I snooped and learned everything that is really going on.

I am definitely feeling the cognitive dissonance between all the DB/GAL/Detaching I am doing, rediscovering "the man she would be a fool to lose", and the fact that so far I have chosen not to let her know everything I learned via snooping... which definitely feels not like that confident independent man.

I've been torn wondering whether I am avoiding confronting her with my snooping for the right reasons. Whether her coming clean about OM2 and her seeming to slowly come out of fog are things working, or just wishful thinking and me wanting to avoid confrontation and rocking the boat?

Her going out dancing alone felt like her stepping over the "No Open Relationship" boundary I set, but I'm not sure on how to react to her potentially violating that boundary without turning it into an ultimatum or a big relationship talk.

I guess one thing I'm uncertain of, is what is the constructive DB/GAL/Detaching way of confronting her with the evidence I have? Is there a link specifically on that?

[EDF]

Well, after much introspection I decided to confront my wife tonight... to tell her I know about her "more than just friends" affair. I decided the dissonance between the man I was trying to be via GALing, and the man who was sitting silently while his wife thought she was getting away with whatever she wanted was too much.

It went about as expected. She denied having an affair, and then claimed naughty pictures "wasn't really an affair", and then claimed their secret dates "weren't really secret", and finally made a snarky comment complaining about me snooping in her email.

I managed to stay fairly calm and brief and say what I planned to say... During practicing I had removed the couple of lines that kept making me tear up. The wife didn't cry or yell or anything more than the snarly retort.

I made it clear that while we both would have work to do to improve things, if she decides she wants to choose me she is going to have to fight to win me back.

She tried to downplay the affair activities, pointing out the naughty pics stopped a while ago and "if it was an affair it was a pretty shitty one because he's always too busy to hang out with me and he's getting married to his girlfriend now anyway."

Surprised she didn't ask whether I was going to tell anyone(e.g. OM's wife, or my parents, etc)... Maybe those questions will come after the conversation sinks in more.

I really don't know whether confronting now was the best chance of saving our marriage (things had seemed to be getting less frequent with OM), but decided it was what I needed for me. And if she did come back, I wanted her to know she would have to work for it rather than limping in and try to still maintain some sort of borderline friendship with OM.

Left the house to go for a drive afterwards... will see how the next few days pan out. Trying to have no expectations...

[MrBond]

Sounded like it went well. It's natural for the WAS to deflect blame back onto the spouse. It's amazing how she tried to downplay naughty pics of herself. Great job at staying calm.

[Sotto]

Hi EDF, that sounds fair enough to me and yes, not a particularly positive response from her. It sounds as though she remains in a pretty wayward and unrepentant mindset just now.

So, she now knows what you know. And she also knows that she would need to work hard to repair things if that's what she wants.

For now, I would let things settle and leave her to reflect on all of that. Put your focus into GAL for yourself and moving forward independently of her.

Now that you have said she would need to work hard to repair things, it is important to 'live that.'

Take care

[EDF]

Last few days we've had very little contact. In the few days leading up to confronting her I had been keeping myself busy/GAL, and have continued that since the confrontation Tuesday. I have been positive/upbeat when at home, but not really interacting with her unless she initiates.

Last night she started some light friendly conversations about our cats' shenanigans, our martial arts classes, etc. I listened/validated but kept my responses brief and was the one to end the conversations.

I will mention that when I next saw her after the confrontation she said she wanted to "explain things", and I listened to her talk for almost half an hour.

She generally downplayed things more. She talked about her feelings some, and how she had been so depressed and had been using emailing him to give her some happiness. She again tried pointing out how she hadn't sent him any naughty pics or seen him in person for a couple months, but didn't actually say it was over or that she wouldn't do it again. She said she was sorry she did it to me because I'm such a great guy, but she wasn't sorry she did it. She claimed she didn't want to just give up on the 17 years of marriage. Kinda all over the place... I just listened and validated where appropriate.

Have avoided any pursuing behaviors and just interacting when she initiates. But now I have a possible dilemma I'm not sure how to respond to. I got an email (I'm sure my wife got it too) that there's an 80s dance party tonight.

If she decides to go, I will just stay detached, do my own fun activities, and she will do whatever she wants. However, if she actually invites me, or texts me from the club inviting me how do I respond?

I know sex is a 'no thanks' at this point. I know her inviting me wouldn't mean everything's fixed, and if I went with I wouldn't want to be overly enthusiastic/pursuing/touchy.

I know my phone coach would say if she invites me then feel free to go, but with me taking a harder stance now and telling her she has to fight for me if she wants me, should I view an invite as an opportunity for me to have casual fun and for her to see the upbeat me? Or should I view it as a temp check and an opportunity to allow her to miss me... and so tell her I already have plans?

Interested in any thoughts! I am leaning towards that if she invites me ahead of time I would be willing to go, but if she goes by herself and then texts me, I would be busy.

The possible 180 out-of-left-field option would be if she doesn't mention it and doesn't seem to be going, that I go out myself to the dance party. Maybe I just have fun. Maybe I text her from the party and she can ask to join me if she wants. That feels like pursuing, but it would also be a huge unpredictable 180 for me to do something like that.

[EDF]

Two things to report.

The Dance Party
I ended up just going home as usual, said 'hello' and when she asked what I was up to I told WW I needed to get ready quick cause I was going out. She asked what I was doing and I mentioned I was probably going to a dance party, but might hit a different place or go play pool instead. Tried to be a little mysterious.

She mentioned she was probably going to the party as well, but "had to meet a work friend first to finalize an event coming up the next day" (yea, sure. I didn't react; no proof; just figured I would do my thing and she would do whatever she does and I would act like I could care less what she does). Neither of us explicitly invited the other.

Ultimately I got ready and left the house first. She showed up at the bar about 45 minutes after I did and came to hang out by me and we bounced to a few different joints during the night. I waited for her initiate things; friendly conversations but no real touching.

The other item is that after her post-confrontation "let me explain things" talk a couple days ago, I ended up giving her my PDF of a book on women's infidelity I read. Obviously that is no doubt throwing up lots of red flags to everyone. But the reality is it was something I had been thinking about for some time and felt she may be nearing a point mentally where the info would be useful to her. I am taking ownership of my actions - if things implode horribly perhaps I can at least be a cautionary tale.

I approached it by validating that I heard her frustration about not knowing why this was happening, and mentioned that one of the books I read mentioned some social/biological factors that may contribute to some of the feelings she is having, and I could give her a copy if she wanted. I mentioned that according to reviews many women in her situation had felt almost like the book was written about them personally, and that the book wasn't really pro-marriage or pro-ending things, but just explaining some of the factors. She said yes to me sending the book, so I did. (I realize that her agreeing to something could easily have been simply a smoke screen)

In the interests of transparency, my rationale behind giving her the PDF was:

• She has mentioned several times (that night and previously) hating not knowing why she has these feelings and "wishing she knew whether it was just a phase or a biological thing".
• She had made similar comments in her personal journal.
• Although she doesn't respect me as a husband right now, she still seems to respect my opinion on other things. About 3 weeks ago when she was talking about having trouble processing her feelings, I had mentioned a counselor I had come across that I had been considering for MC, but that I thought she might be a good person for WW to talk to if she ever wanted help working through her complicated situation. I offered I could give her the contact info if she wanted it and she said yes so I did. A couple weeks later she went to see that counselor.
• My wife has constantly been looking for physiological answers (iron deficiency? gluten? adrenaline system problems?) to problems (fatigure, depression) she has been having so I felt the book might resonate with her.
• When I have experimented with dropping little nuggets I've gleaned from research (eg Open Relationships not working well when the marriage is in crisis) when I felt she was expressing genuine frustration and being receptive, it has went well.
• She has never been yelling/vindictive/retaliatory with me during this [censored] up situation.
• Even if she ignores it, once it is in her email she will at least be aware of the potential resource if she reaches a point where she is open to it.
• Although her heart is definitely still wayward, the current OM situation has seemed to be petering off (fairly verified from snooping).

A couple related points worth mentioning:

• I figure in 99.9% of situations, giving the WW a book on cheating would be one of the stupidest moves a LBS could make.
• I am under no illusion that this is a quick fix, or even guaranteed to ever make things better, and there's a chance it could make things worse. Heck, she may read about the intoxicating effect of affair sex and decide "hell yes, that's what I need right now".
• This was not a spur of the moment decision; I had been considering this for a while now as I felt she was nearing a point where it might help her figure things out, regardless of whether that meant reconciling or ending things.

So... I did it and we'll see how things pan out.

Since giving her the book,there have been a couple indications the past couple days that she has started reading it:

• she made a quip in our martial arts class to a pair of guys sparring about "men's estrogen levels going up as they age".
• she texted a girlfriend of hers "I think I found out what I'm going through. Just need to read the book."

Again, I want to strongly reiterate to anyone else considering doing this that it is probably a horrible idea to ask the WW if she wants a book about women cheating . Time will tell I guess whether my instincts were right here or not; I accept the consequences either way.

I'm coming increasingly to accept that I don't want my wife back as she currently is; or as she has been. Even if she decides to reconcile, she may not be willing to really do what is needed, or I may not be able to reach a point to forgive her. I feel the person I am becoming now, and the person she has the potential to become if she makes it through her own metamorphosis, could build something new and great, but for now I will just go back to refocusing on:

• GAL.
• stop snooping.
• don't pursue.

Whatever happens, I'll make it.

[EDF]

Planning a little solo day-trip this weekend, and trying to figure out plans for my birthday next weekend.

The feelings are hitting me pretty hard at the moment. Don't really want to be around WW on my birthday, and not sure I'm up to visiting family and fielding questions about where WW is. Trying not to think about it...

[EDF]

Had a good GAL weekend so far. Got a bunch of exercise in, played some pool, saw a movie, sat in the yard enjoying the beautiful weather and listening to music\napping.

Also managed to get some yard work in, and my share of some household chores. I'm doing a lot better about not trying to be "Mr Mom" (like I was at first) and not doing all the cleaning.

I can tell WW is feeling some stress from me not doing the extra liftin' anymore, and a lot of her time is eaten up by doing her own food prep, chores, etc.

She complained today about me not helping her cook. I tried to validate well but did also end up calmly pointing out that it was mostly her meals so I figured that was more her thing and I was taking care of other things. Also that she's welcome to ask if she wants help with something specific.

She seemed to take it well; this is the sort of thing where in the past she could get a very derisive attitude if I failed to read her mind about something she wanted help with. It often seems she would rather do something herself and then complain about it, rather than just explicitly stating what she wants.

[EDF]

I may be over-thinking this, but when detaching and "not initiating", how do you guys handle social pleasantries like Good morning/Hello/Goodbye with the WW?

Do you not say anything unless they do first (let them initiate) or do you give a "solid but not overly enthusiastic" greeting because that's how awesome upbeat you would interact with a roommate or stranger?