My third post - please be nice

[collin]

Dear wife,
I just want to let you know that I don't care about your move out plans. Please don't call me at work anymore telling me when the movers are going to show up and talking about what you need to do. I don't care. I don't want to know your plans. I have tried my hardest to move past this. I will know you have moved out when I get home from work and your stuff isn't there. This is your thing and the less I am involved with it the better off I am. You are doing this for you, well I don't want to be involved, for ME.

Thank you for your understanding..
______________________________

I didn't send this to her, I just really wanted to get this off my chest. Because I was sitting here at work fuming.

Anyways, here's my link to my prior post:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2672041

And the first one:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2659220

[Coconut]

Collin, that's a great way to get it of your chest... Just keep doing you, and you'll get through.. I've read in a lot of sitch's where the LBS finds it easier to detach and let go of the rope when physically separated, I hope you find the strength to do so...

[tjcran]

Collin,

I echo Coconut. The physical separation, while painful to think about, may allow you some relief. For me, it relieved the tension and it allowed me to more easily focus on me. You will get through this, not easily, but you will get through this.

[bigybiz]

Collin: Yes, the physical separation will be tough (check out my thread). What are you doing to prepare/battle?

[collin]

Yesterday morning my W had to run to Chapel Hill to drop off a foster dog. She asked me if I wanted to go and I was trying to implement the rules on here (detaching, separating, etc...) so, I said No and she went on.

Well later on last night she got upset with me for "not being there for her" and "she shouldn't have to tell me". I explained to her that I was under the impression she was leaving me and moving out (she is) so I assumed she wanted her space...(you know,separation). I told her that if she wanted me to go she should've said that instead of posing it in a question of, "do you want to go?" Since I'm not a mind reader. She said that anyone who knew her wouldn't have to be to be told, they would know.

I was dumbfounded. I know things go up and down and change in an instant. But what the heck...?

[collin]

Well I just had one of the hardest several minutes emotionally I've had in a while. I was sitting in the house alone on the couch looking around when everything I looked at brought up a memory of her and us.

I left the living room walked into the kitchen, same thing. I was a blubbering mess. Finally I had to come outside.

Thank goodness her and D left for a little while, because right now I'm a wreck.

[MoveFrwd]

Yesterday morning my W had to run to Chapel Hill to drop off a foster dog. She asked me if I wanted to go and I was trying to implement the rules on here (detaching, separating, etc...) so, I said No and she went on.

Well later on last night she got upset with me for "not being there for her" and "she shouldn't have to tell me". I explained to her that I was under the impression she was leaving me and moving out (she is) so I assumed she wanted her space...(you know,separation). I told her that if she wanted me to go she should've said that instead of posing it in a question of, "do you want to go?" Since I'm not a mind reader. She said that anyone who knew her wouldn't have to be to be told, they would know.

I was dumbfounded. I know things go up and down and change in an instant. But what the heck...?

Don't read into it too much, Collin.

My guess is that she would have been just as cold had you gone.

[collin]

Tonight was rough. I helped her get some of the larger stuff outside for when the movers come. I tried to leave the room when I felt myself getting emotional. Well I walked to the back of the house and did a good cry. After I somewhat composed myself I walked outside for fresh air. On my way outside she asked what I was upset about? My reply was "don't ask me stupid questions."

I went on outside and sat on the porch a few minutes. When I walked back inside she walked towards me. I assumed she was mad for what I said. But she did something unexpected. She put her arms around me and I put mine around her and we held each other and cried for several minutes.

I wanted to stay there forever. I know her moving out is inevitable. But I have got to bust my butt every single day to get her back. I told her yesterday I wanted to respect her and her space so I won't be spending a lot of time over at her place. I don't know if going completely dark would be the best way to win her back. I know my wife and going dark would back fire on me and push her further and further away. i know that completely goes against the DB method.

Well today was expectedly hard. But I made it. Just need to stay the course and work on bettering myself.

[SH_]

collin,

Have you spoken with a DB coach?
You may find some great feedback and advice for your specific situation. With the separation, approaches can vary, but a DB coach can benefit so you are confident.

Move out day is a challenge, but the space can benefit you.

Be well this evening.

[collin]

Have you spoken with a DB coach?

No. They expect a small fortune. I'm not discrediting their benefit. But with now having to float my mortgage on a single income, I can't feasibly afford it.

[Pink17]

Hi Collin,

Well, I can't afford the DB coach as well, so I just counted on the help of my DBiers friends, and still do.

My advice is to prepare yourself somewhat to what is very normal and predicted, you are on the mercy of her rollercoaster and with her moving out it will be also your own rollercoaster.

The same pain that comes with her living the house, will sure give you the space and peace to see the whole picture and better yourself, and vice-versa. There will be days where you will feel good that the tension is gone, and there will be days, moments, when the emptiness will just crash you down.

I guess when I was at that stage, it was really good to know that many of us go through it and it is perfectly normal, so I did not bit myself in a head with too many 2 x 4s. I accepted to be sad, gave myself space to cry and feel like my world was ending.

It helped to gather myself again and think that I could do better next day. Remember that it is one day at time, that every step forward will be a positive, that this is a marathon not a sprint. It takes time, lots of it and it takes patience, lots and lots of it.

Your W is not acting rationally, she sure have her reasons for her behavior but she keeps setting you up to fail her. I really think you are doing the right thing and say NO sometimes for all her requests. She is acting like a brat and it is not OK.

Maybe it is the way it was before. She sets up some expectations of how you should react to what she has in her mind, and then she thinks that you are a loser for not meeting those expectations. The only thing missing here is that you can't read her mind and she does not communicate well with you.

Sometimes Collin, as it happened to me, we feel very guilty because we are fast to recognize that we failed in some aspects that we could have been better for our partners, but then with time we keep thinking and we remember why we became what we became, we start seeing that our partners were not really there for us and they also made many, many mistakes that collaborate for the demise of the M.

I know that you have been looking into yourself and you see all the things that you could have done. But reading your posts also makes me think that she is not all this perfect wife.

Give yourself time to heal a little bit, to start GAL, to have a life without so much tension and ups and downs. It gets better, I promise, this super horrible pain won't last forever. There will be pain, but not as bad. There will be bad days, but not as much. Have hope.

I also would like to read about your R with your kid. You do no write much about spending time with her, what you do together, what are your plans on seeing her.

Collin, have patience. Maybe she needs to walk this path now to find out that the grass is not greener on the other side of the fence. Let her miss you. Don't allow her to drive you crazy just because she is losing her mind.

Hope you are having a calm day today. My thoughts are with you. Pray when the desperation comes, it helps.
God bless you honey!

Pink

[collin]

Thanks Pink. Today is rough. I feel like I'm on the verge of crashing. Any given second the tears could start. I just had to go do a site visit for my job and it was all I could do not to cry there. It was a hour and a half drive there and back and all I wanted to do was call her and grovel and beg for her not to leave.

I stopped by the house on my way back to let out a cry. But now I've got to go submit for a permit at the inspections department where we met and she worked. I may or may not make it to my office today. I don't know how beneficial my presence will be today. I'm so tired of sitting at work crying. I just want the pain to go away. It hurts so bad.

[Pink17]

Hi Collin,

I am so sorry you need to go through this pain. I totally understand you and how you feel for being there myself one day. Just have the comfort from some of us that made it. It hurts but it won't destroy you unless you allow it to.

If you can take time out of work without hurting your job situation, then do so. But, just as an advise, do not stay alone for too long. Please, seek the company of a friend that you know won't be upset if you talk about your situation.

That is why GAL is so important. It is not just to show your partner that you are moving on without her, but it is for your mental balance and emotional health. At first, you do not want to go anywhere and then force yourself, then the next few times you don't really feel like but you're OK with it. Then you actually start enjoying some things, change others, you start exploring stuff you were not familiar with.

Give yourself a chance to be happy just for yourself, to be good for yourself and pamper yourself a little. Get to know more people and your world will get bigger and bigger.

And did I say that you will cry a lot more? Yes, you will. But it is the attitude behind your behavior that will make a big difference. You cry because you are not made of rock or iron, you are a human being with emotions. The difference is that for each cry you will put your head up and look for what is best for you and all the things you can do to rescue your M, your family.

Now, instead of the whole "I want to die today that we all know we want". What are the plans moving forward? What are the changes we will hear once she moves out? Hair cut? Clothes? Weight? Are you looking for some kind of hobby? What your GAL plans look like? Understand that GAL doesn't necessary need to be going out with friends, it can also be something you always want to do but did not put much effort on it. Or maybe, that martial arts class you stopped long ago, or joining a gym, the list can be long.

It also help if you go to counseling for yourself for awhile, there are behaviors that you developed that you already told us you would like to get rid off or improve, so no better time then now. Since I know some of these behaviors, I will post as much as I can and bother you about this things.

I also listen to KLove 91.1 to help me to have hope, strength and the hand of the Lord to guide me on.

Hugs,
Pink

[collin]

Well...today is her move out day. But, I don't feel so doom and gloom as I did yesterday, let me tell you why:

So, last night when she got home I was lying on the couch. She asked me a question (I can't remember what is was now - something irrelevant) and I sat up to answer her. Looking at her I was overwhelmed with emotion so I got up and went to another room to cry. She came and found me and walked up to me and we shared a big hug and shared a cry. We got to talking and I told her that I need to make some changes for me. I told her, even if she wasn't in the picture, I needed to do some changing. She said that it was good I was doing it for me. Then she said she was in a really bad place now emotionally and needed to work on her to get herself back right emotionally. She said she hates who she has become and needs to work on it. I asked her when we hang out during the next 6 months will we be husband/wife or will we be dating. She said "dating, i'd like that" and smiled.

This morning on my way into work I called her to thank her for our talk she said, there's no need to thank me, that's part of being married. Hearing her say that filled me with joy. I sort of feel like she hasn't given up on our marriage. I am so thankful that she is giving me this 6 months to bust my butt so I can be the best me I can be. I told her that our first 5 years have been very tumultuous and 6 month break can be exactly what our marriage needs to thrive in the future.

But, this isn't to say I can just rest on my laurels and think all I have to do is wait on the next 6 months and everything will be hunky dory. I have to better myself. I must better myself. Because I know that if I don't, there won't be an us after 6 months. I would have just let her down...again...

Another thing, during our talk I told my W that another thing I am grateful for is that I can use the next 6 months to work on my relationship with my D. My D is my W's D from her first marriage. I fell head over heels in love with that little girl and adopted her when she was 7 (her bio wasn't a part of her life). Now she is 12 and a combination of her hormones and the strain between my W and I have caused us to drift apart. Every now and then if we're watching TV she'll sit beside me lean against me and I love that feeling so much. My W and I tried to have kids of our own and couldn't. My W and D are near about identical in the way they act and look. My W joked and said you'll have a mini version of her to practice on dealing with for the next 6 months. I need to figure out things that an almost teenager girl will enjoy doing and go do them with her. My W said this is a very important time in the relationship between my D and I and what happens now will determine if we are close or distant in the future. My W wasn't really close with her father as a teenager and their relationship has only started getting better the past few years.

PINK, you said you you were going to bother me to make sure I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. So, I'm counting on you to hold me accountable.

Ok, well, my nights are going to be real quiet the next few months so I'll have more time to be on here instead of being on here at work (like I am now). I just wanted to share the most recent happenings.

[collin]

About to head home from work. Sort of dreading it.

[MoveFrwd]

Collin -
You say this:

We got to talking and I told her that I need to make some changes for me. I told her, even if she wasn't in the picture, I needed to do some changing.

but it looks like youre thinking this:

I am so thankful that she is giving me this 6 months to bust my butt so I can be the best me I can be.

I must better myself. Because I know that if I don't, there won't be an us after 6 months. I would have just let her down...again...

If you are truly doing this for yourself, then you will know that the 6 month window is not a window at all. This isnt something shes giving you. This isnt to not let her down.

This is about YOU.

[bigybiz]

Collin:

I really feel for you. My W moved out on Saturday - check out my new thread if you want to. I had a few sessions with a DB coach and it was helpful. For me it was important step, since I had invested so much time into the DB book at that point. You may want to see if there is $ support somewhere. Perhaps your church has a fund for "special things". Perhaps there are others in your area who can offer similar services. I recently started working with a life/business coach - who surprisingly had lots of good insight into my MR issues. He was also able to help me make my GAL action orientated so it fit with my career and other goals. My coach is less expensive than the DB coach. As I said, I got lots of value from my DB coach.

Perhaps look around and see if there are alternatives that might help. Even if you got one or two small nuggets of info from them it could be a game changer.

[collin]

I'm not saying that since I became more accepting of her moving out she's starting to change her mind. But after our talk a few days back I know I have had a more positive attitude about it. At one point she was all but blazing a trail out of the house to her townhome. Right now, she is in the bedroom laying in the bed asleep. I don't think she moved one box today. I just think it's odd. I come home everyday expecting her NOT to be here...and she is. I'm not complaining at all. Just making observations.

[J5K]

Collin,

your doing great. Odd yes, don't read into it any more than that! Keep up the good work!

[collin]

Well she hasn't moved out yet. But she started packing her toiletries and clothes last night so it's only a matter of time before she's gone. I thought I was ok with it. But I've been sitting here today at work thinking and I'm really not. I don't want her to leave.

I got too comfortable last night and said something like "what are you going to do with the couch (you bought) when you move back?" She said I act like it's a definite and I said, no, you are moving back. She said we haven't even had our first MC yet.

I shouldn't of said that, I know, because it's relationship talk and pursing and that doesn't do any good. But I didn't quantify myself like I should of. I just acted like all I had to do was wait out the 6 months and she'll come be-bopping back home. I know it's not the case. What I meant to say was, you are coming back because I'm going to do what I need to do to ensure it.

I don't know, maybe her going ahead and leaving will help me with sticking my foot in my mouth and saying stupid stuff.

My first 10k is this weekend and I keep on trying to feel her out by telling her you don't have to go if you don't want. She keeps on saying she doesn't mind going. So, if we're counting Pyrrhic victories, I consider that one. At least she's willing to be at the race 7am on a Saturday to watch and wait for me.

Back at the beginning of my first post I told myself I had to keep on chipping away. I need to remember that instead of trying to get her back in one felt swoop. It's a marathon, not a race.

[collin]

This morning I snooped. I shouldn't of. But I did. Now I feel even more lost and confused. I read a text message between my W and one of her friends (girl) and they were talking about me/us. One message said something to the extent of, he's handling it a lot better now, he's treating it as a 6 month break and not me (her) leaving <---this last word I can't remember I know it's a matter of semantics if she said leaving, splitting, breaking up, etc...

So that one left me scratching my head...

Then she did say in a later text, "i think this time apart has made me appreciate him more"

That one was nice...but still the first one really threw me for a loop. I had to put her phone down because she walked back into the house. I know I shouldn't read anything into and only worry about things I can control (ME!) But one can't help it...I don't know how to feel. Last week I was so positive, now I just feel down and negative like, is she considering this a split up and not a break? I just want to know what she's thinking. I can't exactly ask her, "Sooooo...was going through your phone this morning and saw your texts. Could you please explain those?" So, here I am wondering.

They say not all who wander are lost. I, however, am lost.

[bigybiz]

Collin: The best advice I got from my DB coach was don't believe anything she says and only half of what you see.

Ignore what you read. You can not interpret anything from it.

My friend please don't snoop. I did and I found out what I was looking for and it all blew up. I won the battle and lost the war.

Resist it. It's so tempting and everyone does it. Even people in healthy marriages. It's still bad.

I pray for you everyday. If you like I can pray for your strength to resist the temptation. Your a good guy, when you get the urge to snoop. Please remind yourself of the people like me who respect you and want the best for you.

[Rose888]

I shouldn't of said that, I know, because it's relationship talk and pursing and that doesn't do any good. But I didn't quantify myself like I should of. I just acted like all I had to do was wait out the 6 months and she'll come be-bopping back home. I know it's not the case. What I meant to say was, you are coming back because I'm going to do what I need to do to ensure it.

You can't ensure it. You could DB perfectly and she could still choose to leave permanently.

I know it's hard, but if you can accept it, you will spare yourself unnecessary pain.

The reality of your marriage is part what you each do and part how you each think and feel about what you each do. You can control only half of the equation.

H and I were discussing my summer bucket list yesterday, and at one point he said, "Maybe you really have changed." I can change all I want, but unless he can open to the idea that change is possible, he won't really "see" the change.

I'll still be better off for having made the changes, but those changes might not save the marriage.

[sandi2]

One message said something to the extent of, he's handling it a lot better now, he's treating it as a 6 month break and not me (her) leaving <---this last word I can't remember I know it's a matter of semantics if she said leaving, splitting, breaking up, etc...

I'd say, based on how a WW thinks, that she wants her H to understand it's not a "break" she wants, and that she really means it's over. Sometimes, during the begging and deal making from the H, he will suggest that she take a break and then see how she feels.

[mvgfwd2]

Notice how when your W talks of moving on you are drawn to her. Well, the same works the other way. Have you ever given the impression you may be moving away from her?

[RSG]

Notice how when your W talks of moving on you are drawn to her. Well, the same works the other way. Have you ever given the impression you may be moving away from her?

Put so simply, but feels like a lightbulb just went off over my head. There's been one time since my wife left she felt that way, and she completely turned to mush.

[mvgfwd2]

RSG, that's why people advise to detach. It seems counterintuitive but it does work.

[RSG]

I know. It's very difficult, but it's something I'm trying to do.

[collin]

Well. She just left. Now it's time to walk the walk. Tonight will be our first night apart, separated if you will. I really don't know how I feel. I feel sad. But at the sametime I know the way we were going was a collision course for disaster. I love my W and I want our M to grow. It wasn't going to grow the way it was going. So, in that sense, I am thankful.

D just left to go spend the night with her grandma, sooo...sitting here alone in the house. It's an odd feeling knowing that she won't be coming back here tonight.

We woke up early this morning so I can go do my 10k. She and D went with me. We came back here and I fell asleep. Her and D went out. They came home and my W and I sat on the couch for a while, I put my arm around her and she leaned up against me dozing in and out. It felt good holding her for those few minutes.

I just need to collect my thoughts a while to see how I'm going to maneuver these next 6 months.

[Vanilla]

Please go sleep, recuperate from you run.

I would think you are tired.

Peace

V

[RSG]

I'm sorry. It's a hard time. Today has been 2 weeks for me. I've had good days, and bad days. Good moments and bad moments. I think women think they have to do one more nice thing before they make the next move.

I facetimed my wife to say goodnight to S. I asked what the tshirt was she was wearing, and she hid it from the camera. Then, when texting about his day she said she's exhausted. I validated and said your work for summer has been rough, but she replied "life." I asked if she needed to tell me something....no response. She's dropping son off with me tommorrow at 9. We had a good morning at the pool, together, with him. She instigated a hug, which is the first one since she walked out. I'm planning on hearing the worst tomorrow....

Good luck. Grab some sleep if you can. We're all here to support you.

[collin]

Well, I got the hallway shower cleaned up and recaulked (one item I've been "meaning" to do). It sure needed it though. After my W left saturday I relocated the TV to the way I like it. W came over last night and was like "what's wrong with the TV?" I said nothing, why? She said "it's in the wrong place." I was like, "nope, it's in the right place."

W finally told MIL about her move out. MIL was sad, but she wants us to work out. I am glad she knows now, because I love my MIL dearly and I've felt like I've been lying to her. W is just like MIL and D is just like W, so they're all 3 little peas in a pod (and as you can see in the paragraph above, like to take control of a situation). It was funny though seeing W not having control over the placement of the TV.

But, tonight we're going to our 2 hour MC session. If you think about it between 6-8 EST please please pray for us (if you're so inclined). I will update tomorrow with how it went.

[bigybiz]

Collin: How did it go? I was praying for you.

[collin]

MC couldn't of gone any better! I think we started to understand each others feelings. The counselors big thing is empathy. And that is a problem I have. I always felt like if I said I was sorry for doing something stupid, we move on. But, that's not being empathetic to how I made her feel by doing xyz.

Thank you so much for the prayers. There was a moment during counseling I could feel God working. It was amazing.

[bigybiz]

Collin: That is very encouraging. I could not be happier for you. Positive steps like this mean so much. I will continue to pray for you. I know you realize that God often moves much slower than we want him to. So I will add patience to my list of prayer items, as many of us are wanting God to make a quick fix. I am so pleased for you.

[MoveFrwd]

The counselors big thing is empathy. And that is a problem I have. I always felt like if I said I was sorry for doing something stupid, we move on. But, that's not being empathetic to how I made her feel by doing xyz.

A couple things:

1) you are very right. SYMpathy is not EMpathy. Read the validation cheat sheet. Listening and Understanding are so critical to communication.

2) You didnt MAKE her feel anything. You did something and she reacted to it. So you learn what your actions cause and then you can adjust them based on your desired goals. Think about it this way: you didnt say "feel hungry!"....you stopped giving her food and as a result, she felt hungry. You didnt MAKE her hungry.

[Pink17]

Hi Collin,

Sorry I keep disappearing on you. Dealing with my own demons.

Collin, think that you are heading to a long journey. Your wife is fast to blame and keep saying things like taking some time to think about.

She may be very confused of what direction to take but she has made her mind to be away from you, maybe to check how she feels about being alone, without you. But, and this is a big but, once a wife leaves saying it is some time apart to sort things out, is because she is thinking some things have no hope for repair.

Sweetie, I am not saying this to hurt you. Instead, I just want you to think that your wife may be looking for serious changes and the ones that won't be temporary to make her feel good for a short time.

You will start slow, changing things around you, changing things on the external side of you, and then with time, when the pain is not so cruel, you will look inside yourself and make the permanent changes that fits you, are good for you, mean a lot for you, will be good for you...

The first thing we think is to change things that will bring us closer to our spouses, but sometimes the problem is much deeper and with time we realize that some changes need to come to make us happy alone in the first place, and then we will be able to offer a real love to someone else.

Take this time to reflect what is the real reasons there was unhappiness in your R. Sometimes, you will also notice that there is not all wrongs in you, that your spouse have flaws too.

It is just some thought that I have to offer based on my own experience. I have been dealing with a lot for a long time, and it is only now that I realize it is about me first, no matter what will be the outcome. I am the one that needs to be good for myself and feel good in my own skin.

Hope you are doing better, it takes time.

Pink

[collin]

I feel like I've spent more time with my W now that we're living separately than we did in the same house. I swear she finds reasons for me to come over. I'm not complaining about it, because I love my W and love spending time with her. But if we're going to spend all this time together, WHY ARE WE LIVING IN SEPARATE HOUSES?!?!?!?!?!

I know she's locked into a 6 month lease, but still...

I know I'm putting the cart before the horse and we haven't worked on ourselves the way we need to for our marriage. I don't want to read into anything. But I sure hope this is a positive sign.

[Pink17]

Hi Collin,

It sounds good that you both are giving a shot on talking more. But, keep in mind that there was a decision to separate in the first place.

If you can hold yourself sometimes and be a little scarce to her, it may help her to see things a little more clear and miss you. The thing with the WW or WH sometimes is that they too have a hard time on breaking the strong tie of a marriage and many times here we see they are around until they are not.

It is a very selfish way for them to deal with their pain, but at that point when they decide to break up their R, they also become very selfish and it is only their feelings that are important.

So, my advice is for you to take it all with a lot of caution. What may seem positive and progress for you, may be seem by her that you are begging, still crying your way for her to accept things the way they were before.

This time that she is living away from you, it is a good time to grow yourself into the person you think fits most for you, and I see you are trying very hard to improve yourself.

But also, think that you can use this time to let her think that she could lose you forever. I would be a little mysterious sometimes, be gone once in a while. Not available when she calls and want you over her place.

She will have the chance to evaluate her feelings and what she wants to do regarding her R with you, in the same time you will give her the chance to miss you. The times that you are available and decide to share with her, be pleasant, listen more then talk, don't tell her all what you are doing, let her guessing what you up to.

I think you have a good chance for reconciliation, but you need to be patient and on your guard. Don't let her to use you to justify what she is doing.

Right now, she probably have a lot of unanswered questions in her mind, she is trying to figure it out what she is doing and is probably very afraid of what decisions she may need to face in time.

Be strong, positive, and caring from some distance, it will somehow start attracting her back to you, slowly but steady.

Love the fact that you are positive, it helps to keep fighting for what you want. Keep up the hard work, it takes time, but it can be very rewarding.

God bless you in your new journey.
Pink

[MoveFrwd]

I swear she finds reasons for me to come over.

Can you share more details?

Im worried youre being too much of a nice guy....

[Rose888]

I'm not caught up on your sitch, but do you guys have goals set up for your separation?

With a firm time frame (the six-month lease) you seem like good candidates for a separation with clear goals. There is a marriage therapist who has a book on using separations productively. You might want to check into that.

[collin]

Yesterday was a good day, I stayed busy and kept my mind occupied. It was the first day I haven't seen her since Monday. I got stuff done around here. But, then I woke up and it was fathers day. Now reality is crashing in. My D is with the grandparents at their yearly beach trip. It was during this week, while they were gone, 5 years ago I asked W to marry me. I can't wait for D to get home, I miss her. W is supposed to be coming over later on this afternoon and this evening we're all going out for fathers day. I am looking forward to her coming over and seeing her.

W sent me a really sweet text thanking me for stepping in to be a father to D since her bio dad wasn't man enough to be. I tried not to turn that text into a convo about our situation, so I just thanked her and told her I was looking forward to seeing her.

What I meant by us spending a lot of time together was, for example:

one of the foster dogs she has at her place pee's in the crate (A LOT!) so she had to wash all of the blankets. She wanted me to stay at her place with her until they were finished. It was late at night and personally I don't want her walking back and forth to the laundry room by herself at her place. It's not a bad place, it's just that I can't ensure her safety if she's there and I'm here. So, we walked over and she put the blankets in the wash and then we went back to her place. We laid in the bed and watched tv. She wanted me to hold her, so obviously, I did. Nothing sexual happened, just us laying in the bed watching TV. It felt nice. Finally about 2 am the stuff got done and I came back here to go to sleep.

So, I don't know if that's me being a nice guy or what it is. We did talk on the phone for a few minutes last night. Not about anything in particular, just talking. When we got off it was all I could do to not say "I love you". I don't know if I should go down that path now or what. Or, maybe I should just wait for her to.

[bigybiz]

collin: Sounds like you are doing a good job at resisting your emotions. We know that the"I wuv you" is problematic. Best to try and skip it or come up with a neutral placeholder. For years I used terms of endearment for my W e.g. Honey, babe, sweetheart, etc. Once the in house sep really took hold I had to do something else. Saying her name sounded to formal and awkward. I implemented Cio Bella on goodbyes, and partner, pally, etc for general convo. I felt it was a happy medium. Not emotional, but familiar. So maybe something like that could work? Think of it as a secret code.

Careful on the physical stuff. During the in house Sep occasionally we would kiss, etc (yes physical touch is my love language). From time to time and as recently as Sunday night she was telling me I forced myself on her. She completely "forgets" her flirting with me and other ways of letting her latent feelings slip out. So be careful. It's so tempting and easy to slip into old habits - but that is what DB and DR is about smashing the old habits.

You are doing great.

[collin]

Wow, has it really been almost 10 days since I last posted? I've been trying to keep myself busy. Saturday I tried to pretend like I was a master plumber - and then soon realized I was NOT. But, I managed to keep my mind occupied most of the day.

Sunday morning I went over to W's place and we watched a movie. After that went back to the house and did stuff around there and then went for a jog. Grilled out chicken for dinner and then D and I took it over to W's place and ate over there.

This week is my week with D and I am really enjoying our time together. We got a chance last night to watch our TV show and ate ice cream together. Tonight we talked about going for a jog together. But that all depends on the weather. Hoping the weather cooperates.

[bigybiz]

Collin: I've been keeping my word and praying for you. I hope that helps to know. Any more MC?

[collin]

I don't know what happened last night. She came by last night and it was like she was looking for a fight. D and I were sitting in the house and listening to music. We had just ate and then W shows up and it was almost like she couldn't stand to see us actually enjoying ourselves without her. I don't know if that's what it is or not. Later that night she texted and come to find out she has ran out of her Rx, so she hasn't been taking it.

Yesterday's interaction was one of the worst since she moved out. I know I shouldn't put too much stock in it since we're still in month 1. But I just hated to see her leave on a bad note.

[collin]

I'm not doing well. I don't know what it was about the long weekend but I just felt like it all came crashing down. I showed up at her place yesterday morning in pieces. I was a wreck. I poured out my heart to her and told her how I felt. I asked her to come home. But she said she's not ready to. I get it, I wasn't really expecting her to. But, then it hit me and she denied it, but she's scared of being hurt. Her first husband hurt her and then I hurt her, so now I've got to figure out how to lower the wall around her heart.

Last night she wanted ice cream so I brought her ice cream and we watched tv, she laid on my chest and I wanted to just stay there forever.

I need to figure out how I should maneuver this. I need to show her I'm strong (which obviously me showing up at her place a blubbering mess didn't accomplish) but I love her and want her to know it. She always says I don't love her, I'm in love with the idea. I know that's part of her fear. She's deflecting. But I don't know how to prove to her she's wrong.

[collin]

Oh, one more thing. I tried to mention going back to counseling. I thought MC went really well and I thought she did too. Because after it, we talked about it. Everything seemed really positive. Now she's saying she doesn't need counseling to fix our marriage, that she knows the problems and that I was trying to play the blame game during it. I told her I wasn't that I know our issues are a result of my actions (or lack of). But, I don't know. Is this all part of fear? Is she running? Does she not want to take into account she has hurt me? Every time I mention it, she deflects.

What do I do? I feel like we need to get back to counseling, because I think it's very helpful. But I can't just drag her there against her will. Should I maybe keep asking in passing if she would like to go? Or just put it aside for a while?

I almost feel like she's scared to go, because she's scared it may hurt.

[doodler]

What do I do? I feel like we need to get back to counseling, because I think it's very helpful. But I can't just drag her there against her will. Should I maybe keep asking in passing if she would like to go? Or just put it aside for a while?

collin,

Short answer: You need to work on yourself.

Longer answer: You need to work on yourself a lot. Forget MC and go to IC. Get a life (GAL). Leave your wife alone. You're oozing with neediness and clinginess; so much so that I'm not even attracted to you.

[sandi2]

I need to figure out how I should maneuver this. I need to show her I'm strong (which obviously me showing up at her place a blubbering mess didn't accomplish) but I love her and want her to know it. She always says I don't love her, I'm in love with the idea. I know that's part of her fear. She's deflecting. But I don't know how to prove to her she's wrong.

You are going about this the wrong way.

[Vanilla]

MC was her way of saying it's all your fault and of course it isn't.

Each one in an M carries their own responsibility.

MC is just more pursuit on your part.

You have had terrific advice from some wonderful posters darkness, doodler and Sandi. To work on you. Your W has sacked you as her H and moved outo. It's time to GAL and start to detach to grow and think awhile.

Have you reread the DB books?

I laminated Sandi 37 guide rules and carried them with me. Do you refer to them? And is that every day?

Showing your W love at this point may not be about showing up, it is important you show that love by becoming an improved you.

Have you examined why you had lethargy in your M? Was it a health issue? Lazines? Masked depression? We're you a 'nice guy', with passive aggression? Google 'nice guy' for resources on that style of behaviour in men.

An IC would be a good help for you, I think so.

At this point I want to shake you and hug you.

V

[Tofbrks]

Colin- going through similar sitch... Maintaining R with D12 or trying to make it flourish. Also live in nc , saw you mention chapel hill . Roughly 1hr away.

Is there a pattern of "leaving" by your wife? You mention a previous M or lt R that lead to D...? How did it end ? Same amount of time ? A cycle perhaps ?

I see you received the lybnilwy speech ... Which usually means her head is in a totally different place than yours. She wants to be in love with you but can't make herself feel those feelings. Jus like my sitch you maybe the nice guy doormat that she just lost respect for and women can't be attracted to weak men... And can't be in love with them either. Why was the tv where she wanted it and not where you wanted it ? Nice guy accommodated wife , placed where she wanted it and waited for reward...that's how it starts a little push here a little push there - often time with little to no "reward" ... So after time the challenge to keep you is gone , your conquered and respect is low. These are just my opinions and not meant to put your head in a bad place ... Just an outsider looking in seeing what you maybe to close to see. I think this is what happened to me.. just too longer to get there.

[MoveFrwd]

I need to show her I'm strong.

No. You need to BE strong.

Doing all of this nice guy stuff for her isnt BEING strong. Bringing her ice cream? doing her laundry? That sounds like classic Nice Guy stuff that is not going to endear yourself to her. You seem to think that by doing all of these things, it will bring her closer to you.

Serious question 1: If you never allow her to miss you, why would anything ever change from the status quo?

Serious question 2: Does your W have ANY fear that she could lose you?

But I don't know how to prove to her she's wrong.

You cant prove anything to her. You need to be the embodiment of her being wrong. It sounds like you are still catering to her needs instead of working on yourself.

Serious question 3: What does collin 2.0 look like to you? What is your plan to get there?

[collin]

This week was my week with D. She was tracked out at school so she was able to come to work with me. At night we cooked dinner together then watched TV and ate. During the show she would lean against me and I'd wrap my arm around her and we'd watch TV. It was a great week. With as great as this week was, next is going to be the complete opposite. D will be at W's and I'll be in the house alone.

I intentionally tried to limit the number of times we went over to W's place. Just so I could spend this week with D. We did go over there one night and hang out. We laid on ate ice cream and watched our favorite TV show together.


W did make a comment though - she said that when she moved out I said I was going "date" her and I haven't dated her yet. I guess I am completely oblivious to what dating is. What is this "dating" that I am not doing?

[doodler]

W did make a comment though - she said that when she moved out I said I was going "date" her and I haven't dated her yet. I guess I am completely oblivious to what dating is. What is this "dating" that I am not doing?

Going out to dinner is just going out to dinner until you put a condom in your wallet; then it becomes dating.

[collin]

Another Saturday waking up past noon. Just don't really have any reason to pull myself out of bed when I'm here alone. I still talk to W on a daily basis. The other day she came over and I cooked us dinner and we went back to her apt and we watched our TV show. We laid in bed and she put her head on my chest. I was really nice.

I've gotten on this thing now (and I know it seems stupid) but when she says she's going HOME in reference to her apt, I tell her that's not her home. THIS is OUR home. I can't call it her home, I always refer to it as her apt.

I don't really have any news to post. Nothing really has changed. Just realized it's been a while since I have posted.

[RDS]

I've gotten on this thing now (and I know it seems stupid) but when she says she's going HOME in reference to her apt, I tell her that's not her home. THIS is OUR home. I can't call it her home, I always refer to it as her apt.

About a month ago I sold something and I told my wife to withdraw the money out of the joint account for her share. When she texted me and said she withdrew it I noticed she went inside to a teller instead of using an ATM. I asked why she didn't use the ATM and she responded she left her debit card at home. I wanted to scream she didn't leave it at home, she left it at her apartment. Instead I didn't say anything. She probably didn't think anything of it. I guess her apartment is her home now.

[collin]

RDS,
It grates my nerves so bad when she does that, but to her it's just a word. Like, she may as well be saying I'm going to the store or whatever. But to me, a home is more than just a place. I really don't even call OUR home MY home much anymore. I just call it "the house". Like, I'm going to the house. Because without her there it doesn't feel like my home. The weeks when D is over at W's apt, it feels even less like my home. She calls our home, YOUR home (once again, to her just words) but I just snicker and say it ain't MY home.

Last night she was talking about how she never gets to spend time with D on her weeks. I probably shouldn't of, but I said because you belong here, us all together. But we made plans for me to meet them for dinner. I texted her and asked where they were and she replied with "the townhouse". I felt a little vindication like me standing on my soapbox was benefiting.

Before I left last night she fell down the stairs (she didn't hurt herself...bad) But I was like, "see, not even God wants you here, so he threw you down the stairs." She didn't take to kindly to me saying that.

[RDS]

RDS,

Before I left last night she fell down the stairs (she didn't hurt herself...bad) But I was like, "see, not even God wants you here, so he threw you down the stairs." She didn't take to kindly to me saying that.

LOL...I'm sure you knew what reaction you would get from your statement before you finished it.

Yeah, I don't consider my house home anymore. I always reference it as the house.

[collin]

Well, just an update on things:
Last night W and D came over and I cooked us dinner. We ate, we talked, we laughed. After we ate, D ran next door and W was standing looking at something on the counter and I walked up to her and put my arms around her and kissed her on her neck.

D came back and they had to go because they were working on something before they came over for dinner. I hugged her bye and kissed her on her forehead and cheek. I didn't go for the lips, because I want to let her make that first move. I wanted to though. We starred at each other for a few seconds, then she said she had to go.

It was a very good night I thought.

Tonight we are all planning on going out for dinner and tomorrow we have to go out of town for a funeral. Spending all this time together, it's time to make her fall back in love with me.

[collin]

The past couple nights W has stayed here. It's crazy how you can take something for granted. The past couple days I realized how much I enjoy holding her at night and waking up next to her. I didn't appreciate it then as much as I do now.

Sorry for my quietness, but things are going well now and I am just savoring each moment. She still hasn't moved back home yet. But, I'm just being optimistic.

[bigybiz]

Collin:

I wanted to let you know that I have been praying for you everyday as I promised. You asked me to pray for your W heart to soften. I've scanned your posts and it looks like that is happening. Is that true? Are our prayers being answered?

[srt]

any progress Collin? You haven't updated us in a while.

[collin]

So, I've been quiet the past few months. No real reason. Just...life.

Things are up and down. She'll stay at the house some, sometimes for a couple nights, sometimes for a week or so. Then randomly she'll go back to her apt and my world comes crashing down. It really came down monday night when she said she was going to go back over there to sleep and it just hit me hard. I panicked and it led to an argument. I know it shouldn't of, but it did. Now, I guess the best thing for me to do is to really back off? Right?

I know what my problem is...in my mind we're still "married" in reality we're separated. I just don't know how to separate the two. I don't know how to look at her and not see my wife. I don't know what to do really.

She keeps on saying that she felt alone for the past 5 years (thus the reason we are in this position) and she has given up. So how does one reignite the flame?

It feels so good to be writing back on here. It's kind of therapeutic like just getting it off my chest.

Anyways, hope you all had a merry christmas.

Oh, and within the past few months she's started to question her Christianity and belief in God. So, that's another thing all together...

[doodler]

So how does one reignite the flame?

Gasoline and matches?

In my opinion, if she comes and goes as she pleases, then she's cake eating. I think cutting her off completely and moving on with your life is the only real option you have.

[MoveFrwd]

Seriously - go back and reread your threads. Nothing has changed. You still haven't given her a chance to miss you. And without that, there's no incentive for her to change her path.

[collin]

So W and I have had a few talks. Some are better than others. Some are great and some are horrible. Yesterday she said her and one of her (girl) friends were talking and said it was like PTSD. Her first marriage was so rough and then our marriage was rough, that now she's just irritable and quick tempered. She said that it's something she has to resolve and I understand that, there's nothing I can do to make her love me or want to be with me. The only thing I can do is be here for her and I will.

I know the whole "DB Method" is to cut them off and move on or whatever. But it seems a lot like moving backwards to say "i love you, i'm here for you and i am so sorry for being so distant during our marriage" then completely moving on.

I just need her to know i have changed and i'm not the same a-hole I was.

[KevinIn]

Collin - i'm going to have to read through all your posts. Sounds like i'm in a similar situation, but about a year behind ya. We are going to walk through our separation in the next week or so with a mediator. its going to be painful.

Thank you for continuing to provide updates.

[collin]

Kevin,
Somewhere along the way I read somewhere that you can't take everything they say as truth. That IS the truth. But, let me tell you, when you're looking at your wife and she's saying she doesn't know if she wants to try anymore...it's so hard not to think the sky is falling.

It's so weird, I go through my phases where sometimes i think my world is coming to an end. Then others, I'm glad I get to "prove" my love to my wife. It just s*cks though to be in this position.

This weekend she got into one of her moods where I couldn't do anything right. She told me the best thing I could do is to leave. The thing I wrestle with is, if I do leave am I throwing in the towel? Or, am I doing more harm by staying? Or by me staying and sticking it out am I showing her, "look, i'm here through thick and thin no matter what?"

[doodler]

Collin,

Your wife has you walking on a balance beam. She must feel very powerful.

You need to learn how to set, and enforce, some boundaries.

[Woke_Up]

Collin, you could be my brother from another... I'm behind you in the timeline, but very similar in my sitch with W and inability to handle it. I pull back, try to get a life and do my own thing - she throws me a bone, I lap it up... boom, spew, arguments, S talk. Plus, WWs seem to like stopping you working on yourself. They're nice, we do what we think are acts of service (in reality we're just being their servant, we respond, but it is just pursuit and it means we don't get off the roller coaster.

I know what I'm doing wrong, I'm just on the journey to get the balls to do what's right. I walk the same beam, I've walked on many eggshells over the years. Listen to the vets. If you can act on what they say, so much the better I'm hoping I'll be there soon.

[mvgfwd2]

How long are you going allow this limbo/agony phase to continue? That is in your control. It continues because you allow it.

[collin]

ok...a new update. she's still moved out. but i feel like today maybe she said something that shows her hand a little bit. i'm just not freaking smart enough read it. so, i need help from the pros. we've been texting each other all day (i'm so tired of texting now). one part of her text said:

"I KNOW you are sorry. I KNOW you have changed. It's NOT however about YOU. It's about me (her) being damaged."

I feel like the answer is somewhere in there screaming at me. Do ya'll have any input?

I'll post more later. Just when she said that I was like I have GOT to go post this to see what ya'll thought.

[JRuss]

The answer is to drop the rope. Detach. Get your own life and get out of hers. It says it right in your signature: "want space". That's what she's "screaming" at you.

Give that to her. Emotionally and physically. But more importantly, give it to yourself. Is this life working for you in any way, shape or form? I would say no, based on the posts I just read. So start making your life work FOR YOU and let her do what she needs to do on her journey. If she comes back and meets you on yours, great. If not, then you'll be where you need to be to jump off into the next part of your life, much happier than you are now.

Start by stepping way, way back on the texting. What are you trying to accomplish with that? Let her start to feel what it's like if she doesn't get her own pad, her own life AND you at her beck and call all the time.