Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2 M - 8/2008 W is not happy - 1/2014 W wants D - 9/2014 W moved out - 11/2014 D filed - 1/23/2015 D'ed - 2/25/2015 Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
Look- IRL- part of my job is to keep the large healthcare organization I work for from getting sued. One of the things I handle are official grievances filed by patients through their health plans. I have to get an official response from the doctor involved and 9 times out of 10 - I have to heavily edit the response because they can't limit themselves to the issue at hand. The patient might complain they couldn't get the bactrim prescription they wanted and instead of replying with a simple "patient has liver damage and bactrim is contraindicated" - I will get something like "Patient is always argumentative and rude to me and my staff and is in denial about the extent of her liver damage.she would be hard pressed to find another provider who would take so much time with her and so thoroughly evaluate her health. She is welcome to find another doctor. Etc. etc."
When I read your proposed emails to your XW- I think of those doctor's responses. And I say this with tremendous empathy- because it absolutely stinks to try and co-parent in this situation and I know most of us who have a WAS feel like we never really got our say and we tend to look for opportunities to do so.
Nonetheless/ I am going to suggest something radical. Instead of making this about stability and convenience and who is living with her- perhaps you should consider which school will really be best for your kids. Have you looked into both of them? Why is the one she is proposing "better"? Is that based on test scores ( which shouldn't be the only things looked at), or what? I'm not discounting your stance that it is good to keep them in familiar social circles - that is an important consideration -however we are talking about starting kindergarten, right? That's going to be a change regardless, and there is no guarantee she will end up in a class with her buddies. I'm going to presume that, while this may add to you commute time, both options are feasible from a transportation perspective? Time to do a rational pro/con analysis of the schooling options. Have you toured both facilities? Talked to parents who have kids in these schools? This is not an endorsement of what your XW wants to do by the way/ I don't know what she means by it being a better school/ I'm just suggesting it will be more effective to keep your arguments to the question at hand - which is - what is the best school for your kids? For the record, the school my daughter attends had not done well on school testing, is on a corrective plan, looks bad on paper and I have been delighted with the education she has received. Just delighted.
So my advice is, when you respond, leave out all the stuff about her schedule and living arrangements. I know you are concerned about the stability of her housing situation, but that argument is not going to land. Honestly those things are her headache when she had the kids. I get it. I so, so get it. But. Your XW is going to do what she is going to do. Wild horses couldn't stop her right now. You have joint legal custody- you get an equal say I the choice of schools- but not in all the other stuff
By the way, I think you should call her on the legal stuff. Something like "look we obviously have a disagreement here- if you want to take this to a legal route- you are free to pursue that along with the time and expense - however I am willing to continue to try and work this out with you in the best interests of the children. We won't be able to litigate every disagreement. Here is what I suggest.."
Now, I've been on record before as saying that you have a right to know who is living with your children. And I still feel that way- I would just seperate that into a different conversation or at least a different topic in the email. Keep it simple. " As their father, I would like to know who will be living with my children. I'm sure you will appreciate the same consideration when my living circumstances change"
The school is better. It is a top ten school in the state.
I'm frustrated b/c we moved here together and the school system was good then and now it is not. Similarly, I can't imagine not living in the same town as the school system my kids are going to, but then I would have to leave the house we built. Which I think would be difficult but I could do it. My D cries when I mention it. She loves it here.
Quote:
So my advice is, when you respond, leave out all the stuff about her schedule and living arrangements. I know you are concerned about the stability of her housing situation, but that argument is not going to land.
For the above, I know she will use other people constantly so that she can live her life, with pick ups/drop offs/etc. I can't consistently pick up her slack, especially if they are further away. I do my best b/c I want to see the kids more, but every time I am asked it is always last minute.
As for the house piece, what happens when she does the same thing to the new guy. Is she going to pick up and move the kids again? How do I stabilize the kids against that?
Thank you for taking the time to write that out. It makes sense and gives me something to think about.
Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2 M - 8/2008 W is not happy - 1/2014 W wants D - 9/2014 W moved out - 11/2014 D filed - 1/23/2015 D'ed - 2/25/2015 Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
The school is better. It is a top ten school in the state.
I'm frustrated b/c we moved here together and the school system was good then and now it is not. Similarly, I can't imagine not living in the same town as the school system my kids are going to, but then I would have to leave the house we built. Which I think would be difficult but I could do it. My D cries when I mention it. She loves it here.
Well - of course it is frustrating and it is not fair. I'm a pragmatist though - and I think you need to deal with what is. Top ten school in the state? That seems fairly compelling. And as to not living in the same district - there's nothing that says you have to make that decision right now. Your daughter is only in kindergarten. You could give it a year and see how it goes before you decide if you want to move or not.
Originally Posted By: mahhhty
For the above, I know she will use other people constantly so that she can live her life, with pick ups/drop offs/etc. I can't consistently pick up her slack, especially if they are further away. I do my best b/c I want to see the kids more, but every time I am asked it is always last minute.
Well -is it so awful that she has family around to pick up the slack? It seems like a positive to me that there are so many extended family members willing to help out. The important thing is that they get dropped up and picked up by people you can trust, right?
Originally Posted By: mahhhty
As for the house piece, what happens when she does the same thing to the new guy. Is she going to pick up and move the kids again? How do I stabilize the kids against that?
Once the kids are established in a school she will have a lot harder time moving them - then you can threaten the legal route with some confidence. By the way - before you agree to anything - I would check with a lawyer to make sure this doesn't put you at any potential disadvantage. As to stabilizing the kids - Mahhhty - you won't be able to protect them from all of her bad life choices. However - you can look at additional ways to be a stabilizing force in their lives. Speaking from experience - I can assure you that, now that your daughter is starting elementary school, they will be looking for regular parent volunteers in the classroom. If your work schedule allows - you should look at that. Are they going to be playing sports? I guarantee the local sports leagues are always looking for parents to coach. Look for all the ways you can add time with them - that's the best stability you can give them.
Also- if you decide they should go to the new school and you are really concerned about who will be picking them up - you should address that directly. "I'm concerned about what the plan is when you are not able to pick up the kids, since I will be farther away and unable to to assist as often. If we proceed with this new school, I will want a formal plan in place about what will happen regarding drop offs and pick ups when they are with you and you have a scheduling conflict."
Thanks Raliced! I appreciate your support and your balanced words (which I used to formulate a balanced responses).
Here is my draft response. Thoughts?
We obviously have a disagreement here. We have an equal say in the choice of schools as we have joint custody. If you want to take this to a legal route - you are free to pursue that along with the time and expense - However I am willing to continue to try and work this out with you in the best interests of the children. We won't be able to litigate every disagreement.
Here is what I suggest. I'm concerned about what the plan is when you are not able to pick up the kids, since I will be farther away and unable to to assist as often. If we proceed with this new school, I will want a formal plan in place about what will happen regarding drop offs and pick ups when they are with you and you have a scheduling conflict. I believe this may be an appropriate time to review the parenting plan schedule we have been operating outside the schedule for a long time with regards to Fridays.
Also as their father, I would like to know who will be living with my children. I'm sure you will appreciate the same consideration when my living circumstances change.
Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2 M - 8/2008 W is not happy - 1/2014 W wants D - 9/2014 W moved out - 11/2014 D filed - 1/23/2015 D'ed - 2/25/2015 Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
May I offer some assistance here? To recap, I am posting the emails between you and XW.
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Mahhhty
Thank you for looking into educational programs for the children. I agree that is an important consideration and I can see that this district has a lot to offer them.
I do have concerns about increasing the distance between their parents/grandparents. I think being in close proximity to their family is also paramount to the children. It will also impact the pick ups and drops offs. Currently access to schools is very close to my place, a critical piece in that it allows me to work my job without the inconvenience of a long commute. Based on this I'd prefer to keep them in their current district, and feel the responsibility to bridging the gap belongs to you if you favor moving further from the children. Finally, after the change they've been through, I support keeping their schooling as stable as possible and allow them to remain close with their current friends and social support network.
I am confident we can find extracurricular activities in their current system, particularly if it's close enough I can play a more involved role in their scholastic events.
XW:
First, your home is not the kids’ primary residence, and I am not moving “further from the children.” My house is equally their house, and both of our houses are their home. Just because you kept the house in the divorce, does not give you a legal advantage in any other matter. It was made clear that my residence in "Town she lives in" was temporary until I bought a house, and at that point we would decide on schooling (see page 7, G2 of Parenting Plan).
Second, my family, including "her sister" and "her brother in law", are just as close to "her new town" as your family is to "my town". "Her sister", like your mom, is at home and would always be willing to help out when needed. Especially since she will be bringing/picking "her niece" up at the same school. My mother, their daycare provider, is equally close to both. This negates your point entirely.
Third, any “inconvenience” to your commute to "her town" would be exactly equally as long and inconvenient for me to "my town". This again negates your point entirely.
Fourth, they don’t have a “current district.” I was in the hospital when you, without telling me, registered them in a district and didn’t tell me for a month. Both schools would be equally a new experience. Your argument about ‘social support network’ is irrelevant—they are five and three years old. We and our families are their support network, not other children.
Finally, your arguments all center around what is convenient--not about what is best for the kid’s future. I have, above, made clear that all the arguments you make in your favor can equally be made in mine. Thus, the only thing that matters is the quality of schooling our kids will get. Don’t you agree that "the town she will live in" offers better schooling than "the town I live in"?
I hope to settle this amicably—but if need be, I am willing to let the court decide what’s best for the kids and I have looked into the next steps to pursue that. Ultimately, their best interest is what is most important and their schooling will set the framework for the rest of their lives.
Mahhhty Draft Response
We obviously have a disagreement here. We have an equal say in the choice of schools as we have joint custody. If you want to take this to a legal route - you are free to pursue that along with the time and expense - However I am willing to continue to try and work this out with you in the best interests of the children. We won't be able to litigate every disagreement.
Here is what I suggest. I'm concerned about what the plan is when you are not able to pick up the kids, since I will be farther away and unable to to assist as often. If we proceed with this new school, I will want a formal plan in place about what will happen regarding drop offs and pick ups when they are with you and you have a scheduling conflict. I believe this may be an appropriate time to review the parenting plan schedule we have been operating outside the schedule for a long time with regards to Fridays.
Also as their father, I would like to know who will be living with my children. I'm sure you will appreciate the same consideration when my living circumstances change.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Your homework is to take out the Wonka sharpie pen and re-do your response. Cross off white noise. Focus on the part "best interests of kids."
And I would jettison the last paragraph for it is too controlling. It matters not at all here unless she's living with a sex offender/predator.
Also would suggest that you try to tone down the language about litigation. Focus on some of the mutual agreements then built up from them. Try to get your and XW's needs met. Remember Marshall Rosenberg?? Exactly.
