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#2677243 05/13/16 10:31 PM
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It is so late... I have to wake up early and again, I cannot sleep...


I was thinking about our consult with the mediator and why it bothered me so much. I really do not have a thin skin when it comes to strangers. What bothered me, was that I am pretty sure that husband enjoyed seeing someone try to intimidate me. I recognize that I might be overly sensitive and stressed and mind reading. Husband did not like this guy either but I sensed some form of relish. Maybe I am crazy.
I am aware that a divorce makes your spouse an opponent so why would I expect differently?

But It reminded me of an incident 6 months pre BD. Husband came with me to an MD consult. I started out by discussing my concerns and suspicions with the MD and the MD basically cut me short and said he needed labs first. (On a side note..I like this doctor. He ended up being really grandfatherly and very knowledgeable)

When we left my husband told me "I like that doctor. He put you in your place".

Now I don't know how I come across on these forums. IRL I am actually pretty calm and rational and I don't think any one would ever describe me as being someone that needs to be "put in their place". I was in agony during that consult too. I mean went to ER prior and no relief with morphine agony (kidney stone).

All I can think of is that my husband must have truly despised me, to enjoy the thought that someone was berating me. If I thought he was being insulted by someone I would have stood up for him. I can honestly say I would have stood up for a complete stranger if I thought that.

I don't know why this is bothering me now. Score keeping maybe? Sleep deprived paranoia? Coming to terms with the fact that my husband is not the person I thought he was?

I know rationally that none of this matters anymore. The focus needs to stay on me. But I fluctuate between anger and guilt and then sometimes I feel bad for him. He's weak.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2677262 05/14/16 04:45 AM
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Previous Thread:

Ups and Downs (III)


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2677270 05/14/16 05:02 AM
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Divorce is tough. Lack of sleep poor eating and fear of everything will get to you. Let it all go and trust that it will all work out.

Little story. My ex during the D was stoic and on a mission. Super though and mean. When it came to signing the house over to me at the mortgage agency she broke. They almost call the police.

You never what the other person is thinking. Don't energize them it will take a toll on you.


M 53
D 20
Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden





Rick1963 #2677277 05/14/16 05:40 AM
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(((Jjb)))

Your h's treatment says more about him than it says about you. To say that he liked the Dr because the Dr put you in your place, that really wasn't very nice.

Do all these memories matter? They will not change your h's decision to move ahead with the divorce but it will help see your h as a person with warts and all.

My xh relished the fact that my Ls weren't very competent and goaded about the fact. I guess going through D does bring out the worst in most Waw/wws?

You are tough. And you come across as a calm and measured person.

Please take good care of yourself. It really is a trying time. Your boys need you. You need you.


You can call me Dory/ Grl.

As a wise fish once sang,"Just keep swimming!"

It's no use to go back to yesterday because I was a different person then.
JksD #2677278 05/14/16 05:46 AM
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Oh. And I am sorry to read about that horrid gold chain wearing ah mediator. Yuck!


You can call me Dory/ Grl.

As a wise fish once sang,"Just keep swimming!"

It's no use to go back to yesterday because I was a different person then.
JksD #2677345 05/14/16 08:59 AM
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Thank you jksd. I just lay in bed and get overwhelmed by memories and you are right. They are inconsequential and my husband probably has some bad ones about me.

A. Coworkers husband died. I just came home from the wake and feeling really sad. For years this coworker has talked about the major marital issues between her and her husband. Her husband was an extremely hard worker and they had a hard time relating. She was in counseling and everything. But she stood by him these past couple of months while he was undergoing a lot of suffering. She has children close to my age and I just feel really bad. Hard to express what I'm feeling.

Again, my husband chose a selective death. I am angry but I still love him.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2677349 05/14/16 09:06 AM
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Thank you rick. Those words are so important and something I am trying so hard to do..."let it all go" none of it matters.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2677579 05/15/16 09:07 AM
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Juju...I agree with Rick. There is no telling what's actually going on in his head. I have often described my H as a caged animal trying to escape when he first started pursuing D. It couldn't happen fast enough for him, and he was brutal and cold. Yet, when it came down to the bitter end, I signed the papers and he backed down. My D should have been finalized five months ago.

You are not going to be able to make sense of his behavior right now, so try not to give him the space in your head. You are an amazingly sweet person, and as JksD pointed out, his actions are about himself--not you.


Me: 43, Him: 40
Married: 21 years

annab74 #2677703 05/15/16 05:47 PM
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Anna

Thank you so much for posting! I really appreciate your kind words,

I have been thinking about this a lot. Even if husband was to back down and want reconciliation, I am 99% sure I would not reconcile.

The truth is, at this point I am not trying to save my marriage anymore. I love my husband and don't want to see him suffer, but I would not want to be with someone that was capable of leaving me the way he did. Plus it would be hard to believe that there was no other woman.... Which for me has always been a non negotiable.

I have seen too many people come back on these boards years later because their spouse did the same thing again. I do not ever want to go through this again. Of course, my next partner MIGHT be capable of doing something like this. But I know for sure that my husband IS capable of this.

I am pretty sure I would rather be alone for the rest of my life, then recommit with my husband. Even if he was remourseful and had a change of heart and said he was willing to work on marriage. This isn't likely to happen anyway. I used to want so badly for this and now I don't care.

I know that my feelings on this matter go against the DB Philosophy. I know people can argue that I am thinking just like a WAS. But I don't believe that at all.
Fidelity and commitment are clearly defined promises in a marriage. It's what marriage is all about.

I never broke any promises...I just nagged and had anxieties smile


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2677717 05/15/16 07:12 PM
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IMO, You are 100% right... Let it out. Feel the anger. Shout it out on this forum. Bad mouth your H. Whatever you do, do NOT bottle it up, it will eat you alive.

Ironic story... I blast my W on here. And then I cry. I say nice things about W on here, and then I cry. I want her to die a slow painful death sometimes. I want her to come crawling back so I can spit in her face some days. To feel this is human.

Now what would I do if she did come crawling back? Oh boy, I don't honestly know! I might, out of weakness, take her back? I know that venting my hate has helped get rid of it, so maybe I can get by without taking it out on her later?

My twisted goal... To make such a wonderful life for myself that she'll feel like a fool for having left me. Others on here won't agree. That's ok, if it leads me to happiness, does it matter how I get there? W will never know how I got there.

JujuB #2677741 05/15/16 08:52 PM
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Juju, DB'ing isn't there to force you to fight for your M when your partner wants out. It's a method you can try if you *want to*. If you feel that your partner was right in that you weren't a good match, that you haven't been happy for a long time, I don't think DB'ing is what you should be doing.

I go back and forth between thinking that H is right and we're a very poor match and that we were both miserable and it wasn't possible to resolve, to hoping that he will 'see the light' and decide to work on it and we'll live reasonably happily ever after. But I guess it's out of my hands regardless.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
JujuB #2677790 05/16/16 05:19 AM
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Jjb, I have always believed that the premise of DBing is that most M can be saved and what is important is to do what works. But, even MWD concedes that not all Ms can or should be saved.

I think at the end of the day, it is we who decide when to move on. We decide what works for us. You're not thinking like a WAS. You're feeling like someone who has tried hard but is ready to start moving and healing.

The WASs leave behind in their wake a trail of destruction and we have to pick up the pieces. Sometimes I feel that we can be too harsh on ourselves.

(((Jjb)))


You can call me Dory/ Grl.

As a wise fish once sang,"Just keep swimming!"

It's no use to go back to yesterday because I was a different person then.
JksD #2677811 05/16/16 06:07 AM
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Thanks for the responses.

OFP, I actually was not angry when I wrote that post. Not at all. In less then a month it will be a year post BD. And soon after that he physically left. The year prior he withdrew himself to the basement. I am just kind of settling in on my own feelings of not caring anymore. ITs nice.

Painter, I don't know if the issue is us being a good match or not. i don't know if life's stresses were just too overwhelming. Maybe people are just constantly changing. I go back and forth too. The only thing is I don't care if my husband sees the light because it's really not on anymore. I looked past a lot of things in our relationship but I can't look past the way he left. It's not really an option for me anyway, i was just thinking about it.

JKSD I am ready to start moving on and healing. I feel I have accepted this loss and my lack of control regarding it.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2678818 05/18/16 08:09 PM
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On a good note.. Husband texted me this morning asking how we were doing. I replied fine. And completely forgot to look back to see if he even responded, until now. Perhaps it's detachment.

Just wanted to throw some questions out there...

1. When we went to that sleazy mediator, he was saying his advice would be for us to just get legally separated. It would be easier and no real need for divorce unless one of us wanted to remarry. I don't know why he would advise this, and I didn't really get to ask. I will obviously ask an attorney this. But doing things half way seems offsetting to me. your either married or your not right? Have others here heard similar?

2. What are feelings regarding changing name back to maiden name? I no longer want husband's last name. But I don't know how i feel about having a different last name from son. Does it make things more complicated Regarding signing for him if there was a medical emergency or in school etc? Would it be upsetting to a child for them to have different last name then their mom (primary caregiver)


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2678824 05/18/16 08:44 PM
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I have no idea why the mediator would recommend S rather than D, but can you just use your maiden name-married name in combination? That's what I do. I'm starting to experiment with using my maiden name exclusively for my business.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2678852 05/19/16 01:34 AM
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For me, I would S if I wanted to work things out but still protect my rights.

I have always used my maiden name at work and have never adopted xh's surname. It's a common practice here.


You can call me Dory/ Grl.

As a wise fish once sang,"Just keep swimming!"

It's no use to go back to yesterday because I was a different person then.
JksD #2678878 05/19/16 05:57 AM
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Jksd... I really regret not legally separating earlier. I was such a fool. I was scared cause I thought it would affect reconciliation and I didn't want to be the one to do that.

Right now I don't trust anyone. Lawyers want litigation mediators want mediation. I'm going to schedule consults with 2 more mediators and then see what I think.

I also want to ask about collaborative law.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2678960 05/19/16 10:06 AM
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Juju...I totally feel you about not wanting to R at this point. I fought for two years, but now that R seems like a real possibility if I wanted it, all I can think of is why would I give him another bullet to shoot me with when he nearly killed me this time?

I think the only benefit to a legal S versus D would be to protect yourself in the interim if you weren't certain you wanted D, if D were against your religious beliefs, or if it allowed you to continue receiving benefits that would be lost in D. I am legally S, but only because that was part of the process before H backed off on the official D filing. He and I are not legally responsible for one another any longer, but I still have all my benefits as a military spouse, health, dental, eye insurance, etc.

When we were drawing up our separation paperwork, I elected to keep H's last name for the sake of the kids. They were upset about the idea of me having a different name than them, and I just thought it would be easier for right now. That said, I have returned to using my maiden name personally and professionally outside of kid related situations. If you wanted to, I think it would be easier to go back to your maiden name having younger children who really won't understand the difference right now. Plus, if you ever remarry, you will have a different last name anyway, so it's probably going to happen at some point anyway.


Me: 43, Him: 40
Married: 21 years

annab74 #2678983 05/19/16 11:13 AM
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Hi anna.

Thanks again. I should stop thinking about anything that mediator said. Legal separation at this point makes no sense for my situation at this point. I think he was just talking a lot of...

I haven't really seen much on these threads regarding keeping husbands name...then again I am still on newcomers. My son is pretty accepting and logical and still young so it might not bother him. It's just an annoyance.

I wonder if I will ever remarry! I would like to have a partner/relationship but mine was so bad for so long...I think a healthy one is more of a fantasy for me right now. But then again, others have them so why not me ? I don't think I'm that dysfunctional! ....Just a little.

In my case, I don't think husband will want reconciliation. He said, we had no foundation to rebuild and he is totally right. I think it's actually more like 99.9 % chance that I do not want to either.

I will have to catch up with your threads... but I imagine the scary part of reconciling is understanding what the true motivation for spouses desire to return is? And will this happen again? And coming to terms with spouses character and code of ethics and morality.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
annab74 #2678984 05/19/16 11:14 AM
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The one thing that makes it more difficult with a maiden name is when traveling, frequently you will get additional scrutiny at the airport. A friend of mine reverted to her maiden name and she always has to produce a document to show that they are really her kids, especially because they are mixed race. This is especially an issue when traveling internationally where the official's English ability may be poor.


Me-LBH, 48
Spouse-WW, 48
Married for 19 years
Son, 12
BD #1 - November 1998 (EA 7 months after wedding)
BD #2 - November 2015 (same XBF EA)
WW filed D February 2016
WW moved out April 2016
CWOL #2678986 05/19/16 11:19 AM
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Thanks cwol. I was thinking about stuff like if son was sent to er and I had to sign papers. I never thought of travelling. But yeah that could be a problem.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2679392 05/20/16 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: JujuB


I will have to catch up with your threads... but I imagine the scary part of reconciling is understanding what the true motivation for spouses desire to return is? And will this happen again? And coming to terms with spouses character and code of ethics and morality.



I went for a long run today...ok, not really but a 20 minute run and was thinking about this;

It's often said that for the walkway spouse to want the LBS back they need to value them again. In order to value them, they need to see the LBS as moved on, detached, possibly dating others.

Why would I want someone that only values me when I no longer care? When they realize that I am done? I think that says a lot about their dysfunction and insecurity, not mine.

I don't want to be in a relationship playing games. I want to be able to confide in my husband about my insecurities and anxieties and fears without being devalued for having them and especially without having them used against me. I wanted that from him as well. I never wanted a relationship based on superficiality and fakeness (is that even a word?)

I often feel like my husband mistook my honesty and desire for a companion as neediness. I don't really need him and never thought I did.

Just rambling now cause it's Friday night and I have no GAL activities smile


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2679395 05/20/16 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: JujuB
[quote=JujuB]

I went for a long run today...ok, not really but a 20 minute run and was thinking about this;

It's often said that for the walkway spouse to want the LBS back they need to value them again. In order to value them, they need to see the LBS as moved on, detached, possibly dating others.

Why would I want someone that only values me when I no longer care? When they realize that I am done? I think that says a lot about their dysfunction and insecurity, not mine.

I don't want to be in a relationship playing games. I want to be able to confide in my husband about my insecurities and anxieties and fears without being devalued for having them and especially without having them used against me. I wanted that from him as well. I never wanted a relationship based on superficiality and fakeness (is that even a word?)

I often feel like my husband mistook my honesty and desire for a companion as neediness. I don't really need him and never thought I did.

Just rambling now cause it's Friday night and I have no GAL activities smile



This is coming up in my R.

H got tired of being in a marriage with someone who didn't desire him the way he wanted, so he emotionally detached.

Now, my libido and desire for him is greater than it's ever been.

It seems like my libido dislikes being pursued and becomes alive only when there is great uncertainty. I hate that, and wish I could change, but don't know how.

Right now, H feels he can only stay if we implement a drastic change to introduce uncertainty into the marriage--enough uncertainty to keep my libido high but not enough to make me miserable.

Any ideas on how to do that?


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
JujuB #2679397 05/20/16 06:26 PM
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Agreed J.

Sandi talks a lot about how women 'test' men in relationships, and how men have to pass those tests and not let women control them or manipulate them, because if they do the women will lose respect for the man and eventually it leads to resentment, dissatisfaction, disinterest, and potentially betrayal. During the dreaded 'man cave' thread many guys talked about how expressing disinterest and being a 'bad boy' in the sense of not caring about what the woman thought or wanted was a good way to get lots of women and stay in the drivers seat of a relationship.

If that's how relationships work then I'm not interested.

I get that it's not healthy to be co-dependent, to get so caught up in someone else's feelings that you put them above everything, that you feel your only sense of worth comes from how they value you. That's not necessarily good either. And I get that if you enable someone it can bring out entitlement and other negative feelings.

But to me if I have to act a certain way, or be emotionally unavailable, or swagger around, or keep my woman in 'her place', well, it's not worth it.

I am not a social butterfly. I am not confident with women in the sense that I can't project this belief that I believe every woman wants me and should fight for me. I am not 6'2". But by god, I have confidence in myself. I know that I am a deeply passionate, sensitive, intelligent, loyal, brilliant, loving person, doing amazing things with my life, and that has the determination and commitment to bring a lot to any relationship I am in...which life-to-date has been two because I am a one woman man and don't feel entitled to play the field and find a perfect match, but rather to build a perfect near match with the one special someone that shares my character. That is me. And if that doesn't work for women and they'd rather fight over the alcoholic that gets her excited and keeps her challenged, hey, I can respect their rights to choose, but I am not interested in competing for someone that's not interested in who I am and what I do bring.

That all said, I understand being a spouse is a job to a degree. I mean, if a man desires his wife to dress nicely, it would be nice for her to choose to do that for him, because she knows it matters to him, and she loves him enough to do it even if she wouldn't normally dress sexy or girly. Likewise I may at times have to do things, act in ways, prioritize things, etc, that my spouse would want from me. If I learn that it makes her feel safe for me to act tough and macho when she's feeling vulnerable or if she struggles with entitlement and I learn that she needs me to call her out when she's acting like a brat, I will do that. But it will be out of understanding, love, and the mutual needs of our team. Not because I am selfishly trying to manipulate and control the dynamics.

Maybe I'm not articulating myself well, but yeah, this just goes with my theme of why I'm put off of relationships. And the idea that if we don't somehow do all of these things right betrayal and divorce is the natural outcome doesn't tell me I need to play the game better, it tells me I don't need to play the game at all.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Rose888 #2679399 05/20/16 06:35 PM
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I will come check out your thread.

We are actually opposite in that regard. My libido comes from being heavily pursued and desired. My husband had some physical problems though. Funny I thought all women were like me. Thanks for posting.

I love topics like this smile


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
Rose888 #2679400 05/20/16 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: Rose888
Originally Posted By: JujuB
[quote=JujuB]

I went for a long run today...ok, not really but a 20 minute run and was thinking about this;

It's often said that for the walkway spouse to want the LBS back they need to value them again. In order to value them, they need to see the LBS as moved on, detached, possibly dating others.

Why would I want someone that only values me when I no longer care? When they realize that I am done? I think that says a lot about their dysfunction and insecurity, not mine.

I don't want to be in a relationship playing games. I want to be able to confide in my husband about my insecurities and anxieties and fears without being devalued for having them and especially without having them used against me. I wanted that from him as well. I never wanted a relationship based on superficiality and fakeness (is that even a word?)

I often feel like my husband mistook my honesty and desire for a companion as neediness. I don't really need him and never thought I did.

Just rambling now cause it's Friday night and I have no GAL activities smile



This is coming up in my R.

H got tired of being in a marriage with someone who didn't desire him the way he wanted, so he emotionally detached.

Now, my libido and desire for him is greater than it's ever been.

It seems like my libido dislikes being pursued and becomes alive only when there is great uncertainty. I hate that, and wish I could change, but don't know how.

Right now, H feels he can only stay if we implement a drastic change to introduce uncertainty into the marriage--enough uncertainty to keep my libido high but not enough to make me miserable.

Any ideas on how to do that?


Pardon the hijack J, but I wanted to respond to Rose.

Rose, I think that's fairy tail stuff. The idea that he's supposed to be perpetually satisfied sexually while you are perpetually stimulated is not a realistic marriage model. It might be that way at times, honeymoon phase, make up sex, or whatever. But it's not going to sustain throughout a marriage.

What I'd tell him is that you don't make your marriage conditional upon sexual satisfaction. Now, maybe your satisfaction with your marriage could hinge on that. As a man I can admit that I might get to the point that I would literally hate my life for months at a time if I was being neglected, and while that's not ideal, it can be a true, true challenge. But at NO point is divorce appropriate, and if the idea exists that looking for another woman is even a consideration, that's screwed up. And he might as well go, because if he believes that marriage is conditional then it won't last anyway.

What I'd tell you is that love isn't a feeling, it's an action. While I wish your libido would be a perfect match, I am a subscriber to the "just do it" philosophy. Namely there are 1,001 things in marriage we do even if we don't feel like it. We host parties for people we aren't crazy about, we go to concerts because our spouse likes them, we watch TV shows that make us want to light our hair on fire because it's together time, we work 50 hour a week jobs and climb out of bed at 6AM to fight traffic and get hung up on by angry customers to pay the bills, we clean up puke from our dog, we mow lawns, do laundry, etc, etc, etc...all because we are a team and these things need to get done. Well, to a man sex is typically the #1 most important priority, #1, #1, #1. And if you two are a team, then it had better be a top priority to you as well, whether you FEEL like it or not. So make the darn time, and act as if, and do your wifely duties. I know that will enrage a lot of women and maybe this is my last DB post, but frankly the idea that men and women have equal sexual needs and sex should happen when both parties want it and men should understand that if he's neglected and dismissed then he needs to do more chores because he's not meeting the invisible bar...that's BS. It's a basic foundational need for a man, and it can't be conditional any more than feeding your children supper at night.

No, it's not black and white. As I said, a man needs to remain committed to his marriage even if he gets cut off for years. The same way a woman needs to remain committed to her marriage even if her husband stops talking to her for years. In my mind they are the same level of severity. And I've dealt with both in my failed marriage.

Bottom line, the commitment is required and unconditional, and from there both people need to do their part unconditionally as well. Not because they want their partner to reciprocate, but because it's the right thing to do. And if two people both do this there is a chance it will work.

Trying to find a prescription drug that puts you in the mood to honor your obligations, though, seems like a long shot.

Sorry all, just a little fiery tonight. Love you all.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues126 #2679404 05/20/16 06:49 PM
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And J, we've been down this road before, I understand there is a large number of relationships in which this is reversed and that it is especially difficult because it is minimized in society.

This goes BOTH ways and isn't gender specific. I don't want to start a war on this, we've talked about it before. I can't compare how it feels to me with how it felt to you. I think this is a monumentally important factor for both genders. I was talking this way strictly because it was Rose asking.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
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I think sex is monumental issue in relationships. I separate it from love languages. . I still feel a lot of compassion for husband because i understand how that would effect the male ego. But i also kind of just gave up. stopped flirting and pursuing and dressing nice. Nagged about eating healthy and exercise and changing job to decrease stress. When we first met I was shamelessly flirtatious and more of the pursuer. I think he wanted that from me again and perhaps that was his need. Hard to be like that under circumstances though.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2679408 05/20/16 07:08 PM
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Rose,


I will try to catch up on thread. Without doing so...

Maybe it has something to do with excitement from the emotions of the ups and downs?

Could you and husband maybe reproduce that another way that is more healthy?

Maybe a sex therapist could help? Role playing?


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2679409 05/20/16 07:17 PM
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I don't think it's an ego thing J. I think it's a condition that must be met to be able to experience the feeling of love.

Let me pose a question. Suppose someone got your email address and started emailing you at night. They didn't know anything about you...not what you looked like, not your name, not your interests, not your job...NOTHING. But for some reason they decided to email you every night and told you everything about themselves. You learned their hobbies, their fears, their dreams.

Now one night this person emails you and tells you they love you.

Would it be possible for you to feel loved?

How could they possibly love you when they don't even understand the first thing about you?

Well, for me and I believe many men, that is the role of sex.

Sex is on their minds all day long. It is a constant desire beyond anything else. It is a desire that defines their existence. It shapes their view of the world. It is their identity.

So if a woman doesn't meet her husbands sexual needs, either she doesn't care if he withers and dies, or usually she simply has no clue how it feels to be a man. For me specifically I never felt any love from XW, because it was like she didn't know the first thing about me, and that she just treated me like a robot, and put a mask over the man I was and pretended I was the person she wanted me to be.

Then on the occasions that she tried to be physically loving she felt uncomfortable, or pressured, it wasn't sexual intimacy in the way she thought sex should work in a relationship (when we BOTH desired it, when she felt like it, when conditions arose that made her feel like it, etc). But when she was physical with me it made me feel VERY loved, even when she wasn't into it. She'd say "you wouldn't want me to be with you if I didn't feel like it" and I would be like, "um, yes", because not only did it still make me feel loved, it was actually profoundly meaningful that she'd love me because I needed to be loved, and simply because she was in the mood. The same way I didn't have to be in the mood to take her out for Valentine's day or get her flowers.

I need to give up and accept that maybe men and women's skies are so different not only won't we be able to see the color the other party sees, we might not ever even understand how different those colors are. I'll breathe deep. It's just flash backs from the pain of my marriage. It's over now. I don't have to fight the fight anymore. I'll go shoot some pool and it will pass... wink


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues126 #2679411 05/20/16 07:21 PM
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(it was times like this that XW would tell me that it was too much intensity and with so much pressure she couldn't imagine being intimate...at which point I would start google searching painless suicide methods...I don't have all the answers obviously)


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues126 #2679421 05/20/16 08:20 PM
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Zues,

I don't know what to say, except that what you describe is really sad. I believe you would have been able to communicate your needs with your wife, so I am not sure as to why this was something she was not able to provide you with. There are just so many dynamics at play. I imagine its hard to not be able to receive some form of validation regarding such a strong physical need not being met.

I think your situation is one of the more challenging ones on these boards, and I am always so impressed with the way you have been able to get through it. I cannot even put into words the type of character one would have to have to get through that and remain true to their values. I understand why you would want to avoid women and relationships.

It is different for men and women. I don't feel the same rejection as I know that in my situation, there was a physiological issue behind it. I feel compassion because I can only imagine how humiliating it must have been for my husband and how much it would have disrupted his ego.

My WiFi is down...so writing from cell. I'm sorry this is so choppy and disorganized. I will come back to this and your other post though.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
Zues126 #2679422 05/20/16 08:21 PM
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Zues,

I don't know what to say, except that what you describe is really sad. I believe you would have been able to communicate your needs with your wife, so I am not sure as to why this was something she was not able to provide you with. There are just so many dynamics at play. I imagine its hard to not be able to receive some form of validation regarding such a strong physical need not being met.

I think your situation is one of the more challenging ones on these boards, and I am always so impressed with the way you have been able to get through it. I cannot even put into words the type of character one would have to have to get through that and remain true to their values. I understand why you would want to avoid women and relationships.

It is different for men and women. I don't feel the same rejection as I know that in my situation, there was a physiological issue behind it. I feel compassion because I can only imagine how humiliating it must have been for my husband and how much it would have disrupted his ego.

My WiFi is down...so writing from cell. I'm sorry this is so choppy and disorganized. I will come back to this and your other post though.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
Zues126 #2679454 05/21/16 04:17 AM
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Zeus, I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

I hear you. Although I never cut H off for years (or even months) at a time, I did not prioritize his sexual needs as much as I should have. I could have really used your 2x4 earlier in my marriage--even 2 years ago.

As it is, I had my epiphany right about the time H decided he couldn't keep holding the rope.

I have changed, but I understand why H has trouble believing those changes are real. He's not looking for perpetual satisfaction, but he does want to feel desired by his wife, and he doesn't want to go back to the marriage we had before.

I don't either. I want a better marriage with the same man.

I admire your commitment to marriage, but my value system includes a belief that sometimes leaving a marriage is necessary. Only H can decide if it is necessary for him. In the meantime, I am going to do what I can to show that I won't go back to the way I was.


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
Rose888 #2679465 05/21/16 05:25 AM
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Ju,

Know this, when another is ready to see they will, if they aren't they won't.

Stop'showing' your change, that will come across as in authentic. What changes can change back.

Instead work on you.

I can tell you that it is about your needs in a sexual environment. There is no requirement to satisfy another in this.

What is possible is to know your own needs and to satisfy those for yourself. That sounds like maturation, well that's part of it.

The sexiest organ of the human body is the mind. So it's about being the sassy person you can be. If you want Sassy take a look at Greengrass and her sassy. I admire that gal or SunnyB, or even heaven forbid that old bird Vanilla or her glam sis.

Some girls are just sexy, full stop. It isn't beauty or low cut dresses or wiggly bits. It's sexy despite jiggly bits. It's going the distance for yourself.

It's knowingredients what turns you on, it's starting the process every morning you wake up. It's being attractive to yourself. It's starting with extreme care.

It's wanting to know what is a big turn out for your partner and what isn't, as it pleases YOU to know. It's doing something for theme because it's sexy for you. So if being tied up to a lamppost singing stars and stripes isn't for you don't do it as it hurts and is damaging for you then certainly not. If your other half wants to wear a tea cosy on his head and it's harmless go along.

In my view your priority for your sexual need was low and thus your comment about low priority for his. It is his job to satisfy his needs not yours. Drop the guilt on this aspect, and say you didn't prioritise YOUR needs. As long as you concentrate on him, you miss out on you. It sounds the same and it's not.

Why not?

Your sexuality is in you, focused on you. Keep concentrating on him and it will seem like adaption. I can be Sexy for you when you need me to be, that is a desperate stance. It will come off that way.

So start being sexy for you, learn how to turn you on, so that you are sexy. If that sounds cold too, it is rather. If that sounds planned it is too. It's deliberate.

So let me tell you about me. I am deeply sexual, for me, it wasn't lack of naughties that caused my M to fail in fact H3 said recently to a mutual friend, V is the sexiest woman of all, no OW has matched her. It was other reasons that did my M in.

So what do I do?

It starts in the mind, with the thoughts of sex, it starts with dressing well, nice underwear, looking after my grooming, feeling well, being at my healthiest. Clean fresh breath, makeup.

Texts and other firts.

And yes occasionally it means getting me ready for the bedroom including getting the juices flowing. Then knowing what I want and asking for that too. As well as what my partner wants. It can mean negotiating, taking turns. It can mean a cosy night in, a fun night out, a sexy movie and a shared bath.

That's me, you may wish to examine for yourself what does this for you. Then go do some of it. Not to show another instead to show yourself. That means for you, and that is a permission from V for you to have an A with yourself. No other person to be involved but you. These are skills you learn for you.


Trust on this, others will notice. Really it's true, they will.

And this way it's permanent.

If you hit a speed bump then explore the reason, FOO, lack of desire physiologically, excess weight, or anything else. And if you discover you are one of those who needs to use the Nike approach, find a Nike approach for you.

Those are my views, it's a slightly frank post for this part of the forum. There is a section on the SSM, here withDaddylongshanks, I recommend a read.

Hugs

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Zues126 #2679611 05/21/16 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: Zues126
Agreed J.

Sandi talks a lot about how women 'test' men in relationships, and how men have to pass those tests and not let women control them or manipulate them, because if they do the women will lose respect for the man and eventually it leads to resentment, dissatisfaction, disinterest, and potentially betrayal. During the dreaded 'man cave' thread many guys talked about how expressing disinterest and being a 'bad boy' in the sense of not caring about what the woman thought or wanted was a good way to get lots of women and stay in the drivers seat of a relationship.

If that's how relationships work then I'm not interested.

I get that it's not healthy to be co-dependent, to get so caught up in someone else's feelings that you put them above everything, that you feel your only sense of worth comes from how they value you. That's not necessarily good either. And I get that if you enable someone it can bring out entitlement and other negative feelings.

But to me if I have to act a certain way, or be emotionally unavailable, or swagger around, or keep my woman in 'her place', well, it's not worth it.

I am not a social butterfly. I am not confident with women in the sense that I can't project this belief that I believe every woman wants me and should fight for me. I am not 6'2". But by god, I have confidence in myself. I know that I am a deeply passionate, sensitive, intelligent, loyal, brilliant, loving person, doing amazing things with my life, and that has the determination and commitment to bring a lot to any relationship I am in...which life-to-date has been two because I am a one woman man and don't feel entitled to play the field and find a perfect match, but rather to build a perfect near match with the one special someone that shares my character. That is me. And if that doesn't work for women and they'd rather fight over the alcoholic that gets her excited and keeps her challenged, hey, I can respect their rights to choose, but I am not interested in competing for someone that's not interested in who I am and what I do bring.

That all said, I understand being a spouse is a job to a degree. I mean, if a man desires his wife to dress nicely, it would be nice for her to choose to do that for him, because she knows it matters to him, and she loves him enough to do it even if she wouldn't normally dress sexy or girly. Likewise I may at times have to do things, act in ways, prioritize things, etc, that my spouse would want from me. If I learn that it makes her feel safe for me to act tough and macho when she's feeling vulnerable or if she struggles with entitlement and I learn that she needs me to call her out when she's acting like a brat, I will do that. But it will be out of understanding, love, and the mutual needs of our team. Not because I am selfishly trying to manipulate and control the dynamics.

Maybe I'm not articulating myself well, but yeah, this just goes with my theme of why I'm put off of relationships. And the idea that if we don't somehow do all of these things right betrayal and divorce is the natural outcome doesn't tell me I need to play the game better, it tells me I don't need to play the game at all.


I really like this post. It's about knowing who you are, honoring that and being honest with another person. I think it actually takes more confidence in your beliefs to admit your vulnerabilities or to admit to wanting something that's not typically admitted to by the norm. Or perhaps not understood by the norm.

I would never want to be tested... I remember way back in the day a guy tested me to see if I would open the lock on the car door for him...how insulting! Come on. Everyone saw that Robert deniro movie. Of course I knew to do that. Being stupid enough to give a test on something so irrelevant made me not want to deal with this person.

There aren't any tests for the things that really matter though.

I also like what you said about 2 people meeting each other needs for the good of the team unit.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2679621 05/21/16 09:00 PM
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J, your posts have been very relieving to me. It is nice to feel understood. Understanding and agreement are different things and I don't expect everyone to agree with me. But just to be heard is powerful, so thank you.

Funny time tonight, I'll post on your thread because I'm not up for bumping mine. One of my former co-workers is having a kid so he had a little outdoor gathering to celebrate. Well, I am not very social and normally don't go to stuff like this. I am usually playing pool, or chess, or reading, or something like that. I'm not antisocial to where I can't get along in a group setting, it's just not my scene. But my friend invited me a couple of times and followed up by a phone call. I realized I do like him a lot, and that life goes fast, and it would be good to go there. So I did.

It was good to see him, but as he was the only one there I knew and he was the host, I had to find others to hang out with. I invited myself to one table with a small group, and it wasn't long until I felt really out of place. My friend would call it the 'shiny shirt' club.

[Little context. This comes from pool. In pool, all of the top national players act and dress and play a certain way. It's like it's the stylish thing to do. They dress up with slacks and polo shirts, and usually have patches of sponsors on their shirts. And inevitably their shirts are super shiny. So then the players all wear their shiny shirts as if to show they've arrived, and the wannabees try dressing the same to act as if they're one of them. Me and my buddy don't wear shiny shirts, we just try to beat those that do.

In fact, one time my friend went to some bike trail where everyone was wearing spandex and aerodynamic everything, he showed up wearing a sweatshirt and jeans and hoodie, because f them all, that's why. My friend is as competitive as I am and does serious training, anyway he and a buddy were doing a triathalon and he wore the full gear. He would have had a huge lead over his friend during the running section but he waited up so they could be together. Then they got to the biking section, and not only did my friend have his full gear but he had a mountain bike, instead of the street racing bikes everyone else had, which was so detrimental he couldn't even come close to keeping up. Suddenly the friend that he had been waiting up for took off and left him behind. My buddy was pissed. After a few minutes the competitive juices woke up and he decided to catch him no matter what it took. He attacked and pedaled and got that small mountain bike going like crazy, in full sweatgear, and lo and behold he flew past his friend a few miles later and never looked back. I laughed when I heard that story. Point is they can all have their shiny shirts, I believe in grit.]

OK, so everyone at this table was super cool, designer clothes, perfect work out physique for the guys and perfect tan and accessories for the women, brand name sunglasses, every wife was a dance instructor, etc. They were talking about this and that, what the right number of kids to have is, baby names, etc. I found myself having my first beer in months wondering what I was doing. I tried to work into the conversation with a few questions or the occasional quip and I didn't fail, but it was obvious to me and probably to them that I was a different species.

Then I caught up with one guy elsewhere that started talking about a game he's into. I met him once before at a poker game hosted by my same former co-worker so greeted him. Turns out he was a gamer, and started talking about different games and some of the subculture. Boom. I was in my element. I asked him a ton of questions and let him tell me all about the nuances of different cult followings. He gave me a little bit of an ear beating but it was at least interesting, and I did contribute a bit to the conversation as well. He's not going to be my new best friend (my best friend always says that to be a good friend you need to be interesting and interested...interesting to listen to, and interested in who you are talking to...this guy was interesting to an extent but not interested in me, which is funny because I'm likely to be the best competitor that he's ever met in his life and he's ear beating me about games for an hour without asking me anything, but whatever). But it was good to be able to be myself and at least hang out for a bit without wanting to stab myself in the leg.

Moral of the story? Hm, well, first I suppose it was good that I at least tried to GAL. Second, I was reminded how different I am from many people. I forget because I only really associate with people that are in the brilliant-depressed-obsessive-competitive-artistic-intense-tormented-outlier like category, so I forget that I'm a little odd myself because when I talk to that group I feel quite normal. But in most normal settings I am reminded that I'm a little unusual. The point of all of this is, though, that I realize that while I'm a little different, that's ok, because I do fit in somewhere. It's just not the shiny shirt club.

Ug, what a pointless long hijack. That's ok. It's actually a test. If you reply to this last sentence then I know you read the whole thing and I will keep posting on your threads. If you don't, I'll know you are too shallow to be a DB partner... wink


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
JujuB #2679629 05/21/16 10:49 PM
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(((Jjb)))

I love hugs and I am hoping that these vurtual hugs can help to release some of those oxytocin that I am craving. Sigh. I miss those years when I was breastfeeding kid. I prob won't be able to have another kid to breastfeed again.

I like V's idea about having an A with ourselves. You're a great mum who has sacrificed a lot for your boys. Maybe it's time for you to put the spotlight back on yourself? What is one deliciously decadent event that you've always put off because life was too busy? What say you if you tried it now?

I like V's idea about naughty stuff that we can wear, even if we're the only ones to see it. smile

I am also looking at pole dancing but am not too keen on the many bruises I will be sporting. Or something else that will keep me active.


You can call me Dory/ Grl.

As a wise fish once sang,"Just keep swimming!"

It's no use to go back to yesterday because I was a different person then.
Zues126 #2679630 05/21/16 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: Zues126



It's actually a test. If you reply to this last sentence then I know you read the whole thing and I will keep posting on your threads. If you don't, I'll know you are too shallow to be a DB partner... wink


Priceless.


You can call me Dory/ Grl.

As a wise fish once sang,"Just keep swimming!"

It's no use to go back to yesterday because I was a different person then.
Zues126 #2679656 05/22/16 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted By: Zues126



Moral of the story? Hm, well, first I suppose it was good that I at least tried to GAL. Second, I was reminded how different I am from many people. I forget because I only really associate with people that are in the brilliant-depressed-obsessive-competitive-artistic-intense-tormented-outlier like category, so I forget that I'm a little odd myself because when I talk to that group I feel quite normal. But in most normal settings I am reminded that I'm a little unusual. The point of all of this is, though, that I realize that while I'm a little different, that's ok, because I do fit in somewhere. It's just not the shiny shirt club.

Ug, what a pointless long hijack. That's ok. It's actually a test. If you reply to this last sentence then I know you read the whole thing and I will keep posting on your threads. If you don't, I'll know you are too shallow to be a DB partner... wink


Haha

This is really funny. These forums are sad, but also funny. I mean seriously. What type of people are we to obsess and philosophize and research and spend the amount of time that we do here ??? Some of the comments on here are so well thought out and structured and filled with depth and absolutely brilliant though! No wonder our spouses left us!

I Talked about this with a friend I believe is my female soul mate. We talked about "owning our crazy".

Shiny shirts are flashy and boring.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JksD #2679659 05/22/16 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted By: JksD
(((Jjb)))

I love hugs and I am hoping that these vurtual hugs can help to release some of those oxytocin that I am craving. Sigh. I miss those years when I was breastfeeding kid. I prob won't be able to have another kid to breastfeed again.

I like V's idea about having an A with ourselves. You're a great mum who has sacrificed a lot for your boys. Maybe it's time for you to put the spotlight back on yourself? What is one deliciously decadent event that you've always put off because life was too busy? What say you if you tried it now?

I like V's idea about naughty stuff that we can wear, even if we're the only ones to see it. smile

I am also looking at pole dancing but am not too keen on the many bruises I will be sporting. Or something else that will keep me active.




I loved that oxytocin high too jksd.

I remember watching some weird Japanese foreign film in which people that died had to look back on their lives and pick one moment that they would relive for eternity. Mine would be nursing. They need to make a street drug that reproduces that feeling.

I am still rereading and thinking over vanillas post and figuring out a way to respond that's appropriate for forums smile

maybe we should just start a sex thread? I think it would get to 100 posts rather quick though. A lot quicker then my exercise one! Especially if you talk about pole dancing smile


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
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Jjb, I would pay to buy that oxytocin pill.

Talking about weird Japanese films. There was one that really resonated with me. It was about a woman who after discovering her h's A, realised that she could change into a chair at will. And she spent the rest of her life hiding in another man's house in the guise of a chair when the man was around.

A weird version of the x men?

Pole dancing... maybe I should get put a pole in the study in my new place


You can call me Dory/ Grl.

As a wise fish once sang,"Just keep swimming!"

It's no use to go back to yesterday because I was a different person then.
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Jksd

WOW... whoever wrote that, film belongs on these forums with us.


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Originally Posted By: JksD
Jjb, I would pay to buy that oxytocin pill.

Talking about weird Japanese films. There was one that really resonated with me. It was about a woman who after discovering her h's A, realised that she could change into a chair at will. And she spent the rest of her life hiding in another man's house in the guise of a chair when the man was around.

A weird version of the x men?

Pole dancing... maybe I should get put a pole in the study in my new place



Or maybe you could become a pole in some man's house.


M: 42
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WAH in summer
JujuB #2680098 05/23/16 04:26 PM
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For the record I own a pole


V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Vanilla #2680278 05/24/16 10:30 AM
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LOL... You are one hot lady Vanilla! Your awesome.


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JujuB #2680340 05/24/16 12:43 PM
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I haven't used it much though

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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So it's Friday night and absolutely perfect weather outside, so I decided to stay in my bed and search through and read some of my really old threads. (I am greatful to have son this holiday weekend and he is thankfully in his bed sleeping)

I don't know if I want to really go back and read more, but I do have to say I am really happy for the most part with my level headedness and self awareness and behavior. I never really consciously thought about this, but I like who I am. I am ok with my mistakes because I can learn and grow from them and they were never made to intentionally hurt someone.

Would any differences on my behalf have changed the outcome of my situation? Quite possibly. Perhaps if I could have been more of a friend, and communicated instead of reacted things would have went differently. But it's the dance between two very hurt people. I believe that anything is possible in a relationship if both people want it. But nothing is possible unless both people want it.

My husband just didn't want it and that's fine. That's his decision. I really look forward to my future.

I have some nice career opportunities I am currently considering and I am really flattered at how easily they offered themselves up to me, so I am in a pretty good mood tonight. maybe my lesson from the universe is to "stop trying to control and make everything happen on your time line. Take a more passive approach to life...just let things happen". And I think that might be better for me.

I am so greatful for these boards. The concept of being able to journal and receive live feedback is absolutely incredible. I am completely overwhelmed by it. So thank you!


M: 42
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JujuB #2681325 05/27/16 07:41 PM
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Agreed 100%.

I think we're all bad partners in a marriage and all marriages are miserable as a result. That's because we're human and life is hard. That's the only way it can be.

We can grow, we can do our best to be the best flawed person possible, but we'll always be pretty flawed. In the end marriage comes down to two people that understand that.

You know my stance, I think the idea of a 'healthy' marriage is a lie the devil uses to break up families. Too many people fall for that lie. You didn't, and no matter how awful you acted at times I'll always hold you in the highest regard.

But just as marriage can be awful, so can life. The same way we, in a tough marriage, should appreciate what we have and find joy where we can, so too should we in our lives when our marriages crumble. And you are doing just that. There will always be pain to work through, and anger, and flaws to work on, but in the middle each day is a party that God is throwing just for you. If you can enjoy your presents even if it wasn't exactly what you wanted then you have it all. Take care J.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
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smile

I hope all marriages are not filled with misery! There has to be nice times as well! Maybe not all the time, but a good part of it. Obviously hard for us to see now though.

I still have to think about the compatability vs committment factor regarding what keeps a marriage together... Dont you think committment would be easier if partners were both compatible?

my husband and I were not compatible. We didn't think alike, we didn't have the same values or interests. My parents did though.


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JujuB #2681340 05/27/16 08:59 PM
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Nope. I think compatibility is the devil's other lie that tears apart families. No one is compatible. But some couples grit it out.

I theorized a bit about this not long ago, the hierarchy of needs thing. The idea being that when our society was less wealthy people banded together and just needed food, shelter, and companionship through life's difficulty. If two people could survive together they were 'compatible'. We are now spoiled and want compatibility to mean matching priorities and views in so many areas it can never be a fit. I like fiction and you like non-fiction, I guess we need to divorce. It's a [censored] joke.

People need to suck it up and stay with the deal breakers and the lack of compatibility. It's the only way marriage works. I challenge you to find a happily married couple of 30+ years that says "it worked because we were so compatible that things went smoothly". Nope. Not going to happen. But I can point to a few thousand threads of where it didn't work because one partner thought they weren't.

Check and mate.

But you're right. While marriage is miserable, if you can accept that and get over the lies of compatibility and a healthy relationship, or whatever fantasy is in our heads of how we tell our selves a marriage "should" (by the way I think the word "should" is the worst, it is all about expectation and is the root of divorce) be...the end result is that we will be surprised at times when they do something that shows they know and love you, like 'wow, my spouse actually does understand me after all, they DO care'. And there will be times when you get each other and things are ok. And those are the good times. That's not what marriage is all about. That's just part of it. But it is there, if we don't let the devil take it from us.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
JujuB #2681345 05/27/16 09:28 PM
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Juju, I think shared values and interests are helpful when you're not skating on emotions. My SD is having a very difficult time with her H (addiction issues) but they have shared interests and passions and work that help them enjoy their time together and take a break from the problems.

I'm glad you're in such a good place today! Best of luck with the job opportunities.

Like you, I have also experienced a strange ease of life since I moved and many opportunities presenting themselves.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
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Zues, no need for check mates. I'm not really debating, just kind of thinking things out and worrying too much about my past and future : )

This is what I am thinking ...I think that maybe shared interests and values are what can initially attract 2 people, although opposite interests attract them too...so maybe it keeps them together or influences the choice to marry and start a family together. But in order for marriage to succeed you need like minded level of committment.

What confuses me, is that In my case, I kind of recognized this early. I stayed with my husband despite the lack of compatibility because I truly believed he had the same sense of loyalty and committment that I had. (He was a huge sports fan and stayed a big fan of a really poorly performing team. Now I'm not really into fanship or watching those types of sporting events , but I would actually joke "hey if he remains a loyal fan to them he will always be loyal to me". ) Everything indicated this as so. He was not a womanizer and pretty honest. He has been with the same company he started with. Him and his mother have a good relationship. He is a hard worker and a perfectionist. So I guess I'm trying to figure things out....SO either

1. I was really off in my selection process, thinking husband was faithful and committed type and he just was not or

2. That lack of compatibility just made things so so bad that needs couldn't be understood and met and committment became impossible. Although my needs were certainly not met either and I wouldn't have been able to end the marriage.

So this leads me to question, why didn't I leave?

1. I viewed husband as my family and would never elect death of a family member. (Unless they cheated on me..which a family member obviously cannot do)

2. Just never considered it an actual option.

So now second time around. Would compatibility and understanding the necessity of needs being met still make marriage inevitably miserable?

Answer: most likely, because now even though there is more insight and better tools about how to make a relationship last, things just get more complicated due to increased cynicism, more difficult logistics, and lack of a real incentive. Without codependency what are the real benefits of a "forever" partnership?

If that's the case, how does one truly connect with partners they know are fleeting? Or is there just no need for true connection?

I know myself and I do have a desire for that "forever" partnership. But I don't know why exactly at this point. Especially considering my situation.


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JujuB #2681497 05/28/16 08:43 PM
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This.

Quote:
1. I viewed husband as my family and would never elect death of a family member. (Unless they cheated on me..which a family member obviously cannot do)


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
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Originally Posted By: Painter
This.

Quote:
1. I viewed husband as my family and would never elect death of a family member. (Unless they cheated on me..which a family member obviously cannot do)


I have to do a better job editing! Don't worry, my husband is alive and well smile

In other posts, I have always referred to my husband leaving as an "elected death"... Very dramatic. I know. But it feels like that to me. I just meant I would never have ended our marriage unless he cheated, which in my mind is the ultimate betrayal.

Im not a psycho. I promise..maybe just a little deranged though. smile


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JujuB #2681535 05/29/16 05:18 AM
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Oh, I got what you meant - I agreed.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
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EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2681536 05/29/16 05:19 AM
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I mean I agreed with the family bit - obviously I was able to see past the infidelity.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
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OK painter.

Sometimes I don't realize until after I posted how easily something I wrote could be misinterpreted or considered offensive or even a criminal activity! smile


Me: 42
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Physically Separated 7/2015
JujuB #2681825 05/30/16 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: JujuB
Originally Posted By: Painter
This.

Quote:
1. I viewed husband as my family and would never elect death of a family member. (Unless they cheated on me..which a family member obviously cannot do)


I have to do a better job editing! Don't worry, my husband is alive and well smile

In other posts, I have always referred to my husband leaving as an "elected death"... Very dramatic. I know. But it feels like that to me. I just meant I would never have ended our marriage unless he cheated, which in my mind is the ultimate betrayal.

Im not a psycho. I promise..maybe just a little deranged though. smile


Why aren't you deranged?

It you right and privilege and you earned it. Truly you did absolutely.

Go and join the deranged spouses club, get the T shirt.

Earn the brownie badge, a blue and gold one with a multi tool on it. Why not.

Go for it, full on.

I give you full on permission.

We are waiting for you in the meeting room at the club house.

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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I kind of like deranged anyway. smile


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It suits you

Lol

V


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V 64, WAW


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i have been wanting to respond to this post for a while now. I always get so happy when I see you've posted on my thread! Your posts really help me to examine myself.


Originally Posted By: Vanilla
Ju,

Know this, when another is ready to see they will, if they aren't they won't.
Stop'showing' your change, that will come across as in authentic. What changes can change back.
Instead work on you.

I agree with this completely. I am in a good position right now, because nothing I do is done with the thought of my husband in my mind. I remember in the beginning of my situation I would agonize over what to wear and making sure to have make up on when my husband would pick up son, and now it's not even a thought.

And you are right. It came across as sad and pathetic. And I'm right back to yoga pants and running sneakers during the day because it's functional for me. I exercise a lot and run after my wild beast of a son. I no longer want to reconcile. So my changes are not really for him. To be honest I won't really be able to implement the changes and things I learned until I am actually in another relationship.




The sexiest organ of the human body is the mind.

I love this comment and I agree completely. Maybe it's also referred to as chemistry? I know everyone is different, and that there is a huge difference in sexuality between genders. What attracts people? For me, it's definatly the mind and interaction and story. We went away for a bachelorette party a while ago and I was so relieved to not have to go to a male strip club. I'm not morally opposed, but it would be Completely repulsive to me and not something I wanted to spend money on. But some of my friends really wanted to go. I don't get it. But again everyone is different. I think it would be safe to say more women then men would think like me, but not even all women.

It's wanting to know what is a big turn out for your partner and what isn't, as it pleases YOU to know. It's doing something for theme because it's sexy for you. So if being tied up to a lamppost singing stars and stripes isn't for you don't do it as it hurts and is damaging for you then certainly not. If your other half wants to wear a tea cosy on his head and it's harmless go along.

love the imagery on this. You have quite the imagination vanilla! I have a feeling your partners are very lucky men. smile This sounds nice, not me singing...ever. But one day having that relationship with that type of exchange based on the mutual desire to please and be pleased. Something to look forward to, but feels foreign as its been so long.

In my view your priority for your sexual need was low and thus your comment about low priority for his. It is his job to satisfy his needs not yours. Drop the guilt on this aspect, and say you didn't prioritise YOUR needs. As long as you concentrate on him, you miss out on you. It sounds the same and it's not.

Why not?

This was very true. I think being a mom was something I just wasn't prepared for and I am not happy with how I handled it. I did not prioritize myself at all. I didn't want to spend any time or resources on myself Even when I could have. My role became mother and nothing more. I no longer felt sexy or sexual. I was happy to be a mom, but not happy or really satisfied because I didn't balance things well.

So start being sexy for you, learn how to turn you on, so that you are sexy. If that sounds cold too, it is rather. If that sounds planned it is too. It's deliberate.

So what do I do?

It starts in the mind, with the thoughts of sex, it starts with dressing well, nice underwear, looking after my grooming, feeling well, being at my healthiest. Clean fresh breath, makeup.

I think I left the wrong impression on you. I love clothes and shoes, expensive hair salons...a bit too much! But I'm also practical about it. I'm not the mom wearing high heels to go pick up my son after school, but I love having an excuse to dress up. I still have tags on a lot of my clothes because I don't know where to wear them. Lol. I don't like to drink, but I like an excuse to wear something nice.

But here's something that I cannot let go of... I was like this before becoming mom. Husband met me like this. But These are superficial things. The fact that it devalued me to my husband, when I stopped bothers me. I mean really bothers me, because it shows that he cared little for the deeper things that I brought into the relationship. And he didn't care about the deeper things. This devalued me enough for him to leave and treat me pretty badly. My needing him during a health crisis devalued me. Him witnessing my parents eccentricities first hand devalued me in his mind as well.

I am very uncomfortable with the thought of not being "perfect" for someone. I do not want to be vulnerable and I really am right now and I think that's what I have to figure out.

my confidence levels change daily though so who knows if I'll feel like this tomorrow.



Texts and other firts.

And yes occasionally it means getting me ready for the bedroom including getting the juices flowing. Then knowing what I want and asking for that too. As well as what my partner wants. It can mean negotiating, taking turns. It can mean a cosy night in, a fun night out, a sexy movie and a shared bath.

. Sadly not my present situation smile

That's me, you may wish to examine for yourself what does this for you. Then go do some of it. Not to show another instead to show yourself. That means for you, and that is a permission from V for you to have an A with yourself. No other person to be involved but you. These are skills you learn for you.
Trust on this, others will notice. Really it's true, they will.
And this way it's permanent.

thank you as always vanilla



M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2682985 06/03/16 03:04 PM
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OK so what is superficial about demonstrating you look after yourself?

Especially in ordinary ways. Such as clothes, shoes, etc. It's fine to be you, authentically you and that'somehow the most important thing of all. More important than perfection.


That isn't superficial lovely lady.

It's core self worth.

And those clothes with tags, get those out, wear them to do the hoovering. It doesn't take bars or drinks, it takes a few planned nights.

Go do it, sounds like wonderful GAL to me.

Get some MORE sassy back. V gives you permission.

As if you need it

LOL

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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Ahhh Vanilla

My husbands weekend with son and Tonight's planned night is to go make chocolate lollipops for my best friends bridal shower. At least my aunt and mom are helping me, so there will be interaction smile

Today was rough. I actually couldn't eat because husband wanted to talk to me (on phone..rather then text every 5 days) after work. Knowing he wants to talk always upsets me. I knew it was just about logistics, but I also knew he would be asking about whether I found a mediator yet. And I was right.

He spoke to me so casually about it. Even joked a bit. Like we were arranging dinner plans. I kept my tone just as casual..but of course I had strain in it. His casual was actually completely natural. He was happy and pleasant about it all. At least we are agreeable and friendly regarding son.

It's so surreal, how much of a stranger he has become. He just slowly withdrew and detached. And it hurts.


M: 42
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He lives with his mom...but often when I see him, or my cousin who works near him sees him, they notice a different spare shirt neatly hanging on a hanger in his car. (My cousin Noticed this from very beginning)

This hurts too, but it kind of makes it easier in a way.


M: 42
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Then I know I'm not losing someone of value.


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(((Jjb)))


You can call me Dory/ Grl.

As a wise fish once sang,"Just keep swimming!"

It's no use to go back to yesterday because I was a different person then.
JksD #2683167 06/04/16 05:43 PM
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So have you found a mediator yet?

Answer "no"

Next

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Vanilla #2683488 06/06/16 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted By: Vanilla
So have you found a mediator yet?

Answer "no"

Next

V



I know, I know! I don't know what's wrong with me. I am procrastinating on the legal aspect in a really awful way. Once I get through this, there will be closure. I can proceed with my life...especially my career. Which I will discuss more with you in future.

So why? I have no hope for reconciliation. I don't even want it because by non negotiables have been reached. I think it's stemming from fear of the legal process itself.
I feel ignorant and vulnerable. Like some one who has to go for surgery but does not trust any of the doctors they are consulting with and has no medical background or connections. It's really stressful for me and I'm just putting it off.


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Jjb, I understand your stress. I have so many strands of white hair from the past year.

I realised that you have to fight the fear. Do a lot of homework online. Find out what it is that you need and how to get it. Maybe you can try asking the other dbers?

I wish I could help you but I have a totally different legal system here.


You can call me Dory/ Grl.

As a wise fish once sang,"Just keep swimming!"

It's no use to go back to yesterday because I was a different person then.
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Vanilla

Regarding core self worth...

Been busy, but I have been thinking this over.

I actually do not feel low self worth. I kind of do what I want in that moment with little regard for what others are going to say. I'm kind of oblivious to them. (My best friend jokes, that I'm never angry like her because I'm so oblivious to others. But she also says I never recognize all the guys that are flirting and sending signals.. because I am oblivious and in my own world)

I guess I know that others are probably not even thinking of me and sometimes I like to go under the radar and just be. I'm a big day dreamer. I also grew up in an area where there are so many people you get to just be a cog in the wheel. It's very comforting to me.

I remember a last minute plan to go somewhere. I called my aunt to see if she would come and she wanted to, but would not go because "she didn't have her face on" !!! To me the desire to go and do is more important then how I will look doing it.

That being said, I do have fun getting dressed up and being fashionable. I look good when I go out and I look forward to having someone to be sexy for. But it doesn't dictate my daily life. I don't need it. I Don't really feel any differently about myself when I am dressed up versus not. It's just about what's going to work best for me in that moment and perhaps my mood.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JksD #2683511 06/06/16 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted By: JksD
Jjb, I understand your stress. I have so many strands of white hair from the past year.

I realised that you have to fight the fear. Do a lot of homework online. Find out what it is that you need and how to get it. Maybe you can try asking the other dbers?

I wish I could help you but I have a totally different legal system here.


Thank you JK. I Just have to do it and I dont want to and I'm procrastinating. I know this. I don't think anyone can help me with it. I just have to take action and I'm afraid. Someone said something super funny to me...

"Eat a frog for breakfast"

and that's all it really is.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2684672 06/10/16 10:39 AM
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Will come back on later tonight..but need to quickly vent...


I'm really annoyed. Husband just sent me text informing me he is taking me off of car insurance. (I was forewarned a few days ago). He has every right to do that. I know that.

But he walked away from us. Had it set up so that he was not responsible for housing (since we were all living with my parents for a year), would not pay child support till I took him to court. I have not asked him for his share regarding extra curriculars and have not asked for alimony. My parents babysit while I am at work and they have not asked for any money. Technically he would have to pay 2/3 childcare while I am at work. He claims to have no savings but earns nice salary and lived expense free off of my parents and now his mother. He should have no debt either. He had me taken off his health insurance before BD, since my plan was better.

I am so tempted to respond with a nice " F you"... I just didn't respond. I'm breathing deeply instead.

I read about these guys on here whose wives are in open relationships, lying and cheating and they continue to support the kids and household and family.

I remember taking my car to HIS friends wedding because of the weather and him getting annoyed because I didn't have my credit card and he needed to pay to fill the car with gas before we could go. we got into a fight over paying for my miscarriage bill! (I paid)

I work and have always contributed. I don't really care about the actual money. It's more the principal. Some sort of chivalry would have been nice. I cant expect it now, when it was never there to begin with. I understand that. I can't be resentful because I was not asking for more either.

my husband went to top schools and has a great education and job.. there is no rational to this. He resented me when I went down to part time even though I still contributed the exact same amount...all it did was prevent me from saving.

He never saw us as a family unit. i asked so much for transparency and when I did, he would get annoyed and viewed it as me criticizing.
When I found out his earnings during the child support meeting I was pissed because we could have afforded so much more. He claimed he was spending 1500/month on his car!

Maybe I was too practical. I thought he was honest and treated me as an equal and didn't play games. But I think next time around romance and some sort of chivalry might be nice.

I looked past so many things simply because he wasn't a womanizer. To me in my early 20s that meant...great guy.

So now, once things settle what do I actually look for in a partner? my selection process is obviously way off.

I hate how he plays mr. Nice guy now. Little laughs and fake friendliness. Like he is the greatest husband and person in the world and I was this lazy, verbally abusive wife that didn't even do his laundry.

I hate his lies that make him look innocent and play me at fault. The continued claims "you pushed me out" and then that bullshit statement " if it was up to me you woukd have nothing to do with son". When I really said " I hate losing him on the weekends" .

I just don't want any interaction with him at all. I don't like him. I don't respect him. I want nothing to do with him. Obviously he felt that way about me first or we wouldn't be here.

Once it's all in writing it will get easier. I know.

I know other people have it so much worse. He could be worse. But I'm still upset. I never expected to be a divorced single mom. It's not a role I ever imagined myself in. I am like, MISS STABILITY. So this is very unsettling for me.

This was a longer venting session then i expected.

I am saying nothing. Because I have no legal right but to accept that.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2684678 06/10/16 10:47 AM
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I don't know why. I'm having a rough week. I'm having trouble getting things done. I'm procrastinating too much. I'm having trouble staying structured.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2684684 06/10/16 10:57 AM
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I have so much resentment built up, all it takes is 1 thing that he is actually in the right about to set me off!

I know it's him walking out on us that I am really angry at.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2684702 06/10/16 12:04 PM
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Juju

Scream your head off, whatever it takes to get the feelings of resentment out so you can get to a calmer place.


H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6
S-9,8,8,6,4
S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15
EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16
PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16
XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16
Finally moving forward...
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(((Jjb)))

I know how you feel. Your H sounds very much like the x. I am also resentful at how his selfishness has caused kid and I so much pain. I hate that even though I was willing to work on us after his aggression and affair, he still decided that we were not worth his while.

It is unfair and unjust. But we have no control over the spouses. We have control over us.

Jjb, while things are not set in stone yet, please do your best to seek out the best terms for you and your children. Since your H is so self-centred, I would say go for the jugular.

If you're able to secure the best terms for you and your children, you'll feel so much better. And in control.

Is there anything you can do to make yourself feel more in control?


You can call me Dory/ Grl.

As a wise fish once sang,"Just keep swimming!"

It's no use to go back to yesterday because I was a different person then.
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Thanks Jim and JKSD

I was mad before, but I'm doing better. I think once everything is in ink (as vanilla puts it), I will be fine. I realize it's normal for us to get angry but not reacting on that anger is crucial. it was also something pretty petty I was annoyed with. It's not gonna make or break me so it's healthier for me to just not look back.

It's unhealthy for me to hold on to something like that so thanks for letting me vent. I will be securing best possible terms, but am very lucky that I am not dependent on him or I woukd have been in great difficulty. I am lucky I have a great family. But I don't really want to live with them!

The greatest thing I did was continue to work part time when my son was an infant. It gave me sanity and kept me up to date on my skill set.

Without even looking I have 3 job offers to supplement my part time income. One of which would possibly entail entering into a partnership (in a niche I have decent experience in). I am really proud of that but not sure if sons schedule would allow for me to do that. I have to really think about this. The best thing for me is to be structured and busy.

So I do have decent control, I just forget that I do and go on a venting spree. Sometimes I get stuck on principles and unfairness. The world is unfair though and I don't really have it that bad. I have to remind myself that. Especially when I read some of the other situations here.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2684800 06/10/16 07:30 PM
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Jjb, I get the venting part. And the world is unfair part. frown

(((Jjb)))

And I get that I am on a crusade to make sure LBW get the best D terms that they can get because I feel so poorly done by for mine. wink

Congrats on the job offers! I feel rather stuck in my job sometimes because it's my first and only job. I suspect I may not be as in demand as you are if I were to ever switch jobs or companies.

Would your parents still be able to help with your sons?

Lol at the part about not living with the parents. I love my mum but when she hinted that she was thinking of moving into the new flat with us, I think I cringed visibly. Bad Grl, bad bad Grl!


You can call me Dory/ Grl.

As a wise fish once sang,"Just keep swimming!"

It's no use to go back to yesterday because I was a different person then.
JksD #2684874 06/11/16 07:54 AM
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Ju

Just because others have it terribly won't make your sitch better!

Vent away.

Fart Fart Fart

There I joined you.

The small things are the triggers for the big bombs. As long as its your button you are pressing it's ok.

So when you feel like a red rage rant, look at the button, was it your button to press and can you put a safety switch in it.

A little like a lift button to a lift that doesn't work when the safety catch is on.

Keep the button and decide to observe it. Imagine if the switch is pressed the alarm goes off.

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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So today is my 1 year anniversary of BD.

Last Father's Day I was really mad at him for not spending time with son on that day. My anger was built up because weekends prior he had went away with friends, and shopped to helphis mom pick out stuff for her house. Because of husbands sleeping issues which was probably my true source of tension and an issue we had for many years, (Husband Would wake up at 2 or 3, run errands for himself and have no time for us) he really had limited time to spend with us. He would go all week seeing son for about 5 minutes while he got ready for work.

Anyway, that Father's Day he woke up late and then went with his mom to fathers grave and didn't come back till late because of traffic. My son was crying and I made a comment to him saying his dad would prefer him to spend time with his son on Father's Day. Husband said this was the worst thing I ever said to him. That I used his fathers death to inflict guilt. That I was verbally abusive. And he was leaving.

He cited this as the reason of how horrible I was for months after bomb drop and why it would be hard for him to reconcile. Until I took him to court 5-6 months later for child support, thn that became the new reason.

More to come...but already getting long.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2686605 06/19/16 05:40 AM
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So this is one of the reasons I have such a strong mistrust of counselors....

By this time, husband and I were each seeing our marriage counselor for separate sessions.

For Father's Day, I had bought him gift certificates for a car wash. 1 or 2 weeks later after BD I was asking him if there was other woman. He started yelling about what a crappy gift car wash gift certificates were. I told him I was only part time and thought he would like them because he cares so much about his car. He said he will use them, but everyone he talked to said what a awful gift..I asked him who he talked to that would even think to criticize a gift? And he was reluctant to answer.

In the past, every gift i bought was always exchanged or returned so buying him gifts was always a struggle for me. He likes technology and I have very little understanding of it. Him and his mom had a set up where each of them would tell each other what they wanted and then buy it so no dissapointment, and I never did this because to me, it wasn't really a gift. Just buy it yourself.

Gift giving is the last thing on my LL list though.

Anyway...I had an appt with the marriage counselor and told her about how angry he was over the gift....SHE WAS THE ONE THAT HE TALKED TO ABOUT WHAT A CRAPPY GIFT IT WAS and AGREED WITH HIM!!!! she even talked to me about it, and then said something like "well I guess if he likes cars it wasn't that bad"

Anyway, she was agreeing and siding with both of us during these private sessions so we would keep going to her, but not really discussing the importance of working through a marriage or seeing things from different views. Totally different then my sessions of phone with DB coach.

Anyway, Father's Day brings back bad memories for me. Because he was coming up with excuses to be mad at me and to justify his leaving. Making it out like it was all my fault with these incidents was actually worse then him leaving. It is why I am so mad... It was some sort of MIND GAME and I cannot forgive him for that. Because I was so guilty and felt like I was just set up.

I am glad he is gone.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2686606 06/19/16 05:41 AM
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Jjb, your h was so horrid!

Did he blame you for the bermuda triangle as well?

(((Jjb)))


You can call me Dory/ Grl.

As a wise fish once sang,"Just keep swimming!"

It's no use to go back to yesterday because I was a different person then.
JujuB #2686607 06/19/16 05:43 AM
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Btw, I do feel bad about making an insensitive comment regarding his father. I always regretted that comment. Although I still feel, that life is for the living and he should have spent more time with son.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2686612 06/19/16 05:51 AM
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JJB

I think he didn't know how to communicate or work on our real issues, so was coming up with excuses. Or perhaps a good offense is a strong defense. And he was trying to hide my questions of OW.

I don't know.

This year, I bought him a gift certificate for a restaurant him and my son like to go. my son also made him lots of cute stuff at school. He thanked me for it.

For Christmas I bought him things from son, that he could do with son (like kite and football) and will continue to do that for future because they are really gifts for son.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2686615 06/19/16 06:04 AM
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This is sweet of you, Jjb.

Smart of you to buy gifts that he can use with your son.


You can call me Dory/ Grl.

As a wise fish once sang,"Just keep swimming!"

It's no use to go back to yesterday because I was a different person then.
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I'm trying to sleep and I cant..

I don't know if it's time of month, or stress over upcoming lawyer appt but I have not been doing well. I am replaying specific incidents in my marriage and getting really angry and upset.

Read my past few posts and I don't know if getting mad at these incidents is helpful or just obsessive thoughts.

Is this what WAS did to justify leaving? Am I playing victim?

Is this me villifying so I too can move on and suffer loss less?

Or am I coming to terms with what was a pretty toxic relationship? There are some incidents I keep replaying in my mind and I'm not sure I want to write about them. Almost did, but then luckily that wave of emotion passed and I'm able to look at things more rationally.

It's so confusing to see him act friendly and put on pretenses when there has been so much cruelty.

How is someone even capable of detaching so much from their family?

Back in October, we all went out for dinner at his request. He was angry and sullen and I was stupidly and naively trying to apply the " act as if " concept. In the car when he was dropping us off, I went and put my hand on his and he pulled it away like I had leprosy! It was the way a man should pull their hand away if they were married and Another woman was hitting on him. That rejection was so humiliating. I can't even imagine ever having confidence to make a move like that with any man.

Where was my pride?


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2686786 06/20/16 10:34 PM
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I'm sorry you're having a hard time... frown

I had that same experience with H - except it was a few weeks into the M! We were driving on a family trip and I was just feeling so happy and content that we were all together, so I reached out and took his hand - and he pulled his away like a snake had bit him and glared furiously at me. I have never found out what that was about.

Sorry to hijack, just was reminded...

I know that when H was away, or if I'm not in contact with him, I get more angry. I guess the loving feelings get less so the anger comes to the surface.

It's also a heck of a full moon!


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2686787 06/20/16 10:58 PM
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Hi Jjb,

Sorry to hear that you're having a hard time too. So am I. I guess the grieving process is cyclical instead of linear, and we weave through the emotions in and out, in and out. I used to get really stressed out by the L appts too and would drag my feet in doing my homework. So I totally get how you feel.

(((JJb))


I think you are processing your memories and coming to terms with your M. You are like me; we like to put our thoughts down. It can be cathartic if we jot down our thoughts and memories, process them and then file them away. I don't know if we can gain acceptance of the sitch without ever trying to figure out what happened. However, we can get caught in an OCD loop if we ruminate obsessively. And no matter how hard we try, we will probably never be able to truly understand everything that happened.

I get angry too. And I realise that I get angry when I struggle or when kid is struggling. A certain amount of anger is healthy in helping me get on but I realise too much of it just paralyses me.

Use your anger constructively, Jjb.


You can call me Dory/ Grl.

As a wise fish once sang,"Just keep swimming!"

It's no use to go back to yesterday because I was a different person then.
JksD #2687063 06/22/16 07:03 PM
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I am realizing right now how nice and easy anger is. It's not as difficult to lose someone your so angry at.

I don't know if I am hormonal or entering the mourning phase which is just so much worse. Today is the first time I wanted my husband back in a long time. I was talking about an area husband and I once travelled to with someone and thought about him. I thought about how if he would ask, I would long to work torwards reconciliation (as long as no other woman). I know he is gone though...he has withdrawn completely.

Perhaps it was triggered from consult with lawyer. I consulted with a different attorney today and I am sick that I am going to most likely make a move that will protect me and son but feels so disloyal to husband.

And I know rationally why I should do this. I know that by leaving us he has not been loyal to me. I know that his choices and beliefs do not serve the best interests of my son. I know that he fired me and is not technically my husband. I know he will always look out for himself first.

But it still feels wrong to me and Feels like a betrayal and a disloyalty. I want so badly to call him and just be honest and talk. If I do that I will be setting myself up. I hate the lawyers and the process.

When I complain or get angry at my husband it's ok. But when an attorney or someone else seems to critique him my initial gut instinct is to stand up for him and get upset.

It's so bad because I don't have anyone to trust...lawyers have legal knowledge but not my best interest. My family has my best interest at heart but they have no legal knowledge and they are very angry.

I still want to trust husband and work with him and that's so stupid.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2687126 06/23/16 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted By: JujuB



When I complain or get angry at my husband it's ok. But when an attorney or someone else seems to critique him my initial gut instinct is to stand up for him and get upset.


Oh dear, Jjb, how many times have you wanted to smack me? wink

I was wondering if there is any legal clinic that you can get free advice from? I know the legal part svcks, especially when you have L who do not have your best interests.


You can call me Dory/ Grl.

As a wise fish once sang,"Just keep swimming!"

It's no use to go back to yesterday because I was a different person then.
JksD #2687168 06/23/16 08:38 AM
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Never GRL ! I always love your posts. And I have always loved how you express your opinions without holding back. I was referring more to the attorneys.

Sometimes it's nice to have someone help me out with the "Is it me ?" Question. I know from experience and from friends, that when that is a constant question, that there is a lot of toxic behaviors Occuring. Can every individual in a relationship spew out incidents?

Sometimes I worry that it's easy to side with me when I talk about some incidents. But is it far? Am I being fair?

Sometimes I want to protect him and blame it all on me, sometimes I blame it all on him and and then worry that I am villifying. It's hard when there are no clear cut answers.

Is this just phases of marriage or is there such a thing as a healthy relationship/ marriage?

That is a good idea to get a neutral opinion. I will look into what might be available to me.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2687422 06/24/16 05:55 PM
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Today..,

Me: I never expected to still be living with parents
Friend: You need to move forward and get things going
Me: We've been together together 15 years. It's hard.
Friend: Exactly. You've been together 15 years, and he left you. It wasn't hard for him.

I am mourning someone that chose to leave. I wonder if this is what mourning someone that committed suicide feels like. He's basically just a ghost now that sometimes haunts.

I know everyone has always said this is a roller coaster. I expected it to be a little more linear though or maybe more of a slow and steady climb out of the dredges. Thought that with time, it would just keep getting easier and easier.

Maybe it will when things are set in ink. My limbo was so drawn out that maybe once things are done, it will be easier to heal.

I've been really down and need to get on the upswing.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2687425 06/24/16 06:13 PM
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JujuB,

I am sorry you are sad today. It will get better. How is your GAL going?
I hope you are keeping busy this weekend.


H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6
S-9,8,8,6,4
S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15
EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16
PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16
XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16
Finally moving forward...
JujuB #2687429 06/24/16 08:41 PM
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I find that it's more like a combination of the teacups and the rollercoaster. Spinning, moving in unexpected directions with sudden shifts and deep dips. And then some calm seconds before your stomach drops again.

You're mourning not just H, but also your M, the future together as parents, getting old together, your dreams of a house, etc. Lots to process.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2687432 06/24/16 09:13 PM
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Hardest part of the process is admitting that his behavior makes sense to him. He feels something was the cause. Usually the truth is somewhere between what the leaver and left feel is the truth. It was easier for him to leave you than to stay. Faced the same road after 26 years.

I found a website that opened my eyes all FREE information on all types of relationship types and issues. He is a retired divorced counselor with great wisdom and a way of showing you gently where things apply to you and your soon to be ex... gently but enlightening. No worry of pressure to buy one thing... I think the only thing he sells are MP#'s of the exact talks he publishes for free... to hear his voice. I learned so much about me and my ex.

He is blunt sometimes. "are you a controller? sure you are" - we all are in different situation... or everyone makes sense all the time... to themselves. or no one ever agrees with you, sometimes they tell you.. (totally agree that is). Good stuff. May bring comfort. Of course the sooner you realize and get comfortable that your opinion of him and what he does doesn't matter, his does and the more you focus on you rather than him the growth will start. It is easy to see things through your eyes or your son's eyes, tainted by your opinion, rather than see clearly. What happened on Fathers day made sense to him. You mentioned traffic... What if he was spending the entire time he was in traffic worrying about getting there in time to see your son? He could have been. Your comment caused blame to come your way. A different choice may have been... traffic? wow I bet you were stressing. Instead of imagining he didn't care.

The hand on his? Normal reaction. He has shown little sign of wanting to reconcile. It made sense to you because that is what you thought was right to do for both of you. He didn't agree. Both of you are equally entitled to feel the way you did. No wrong or right. He may not see any of the things changing he is hoping to see. He might have thought you wanted to get physical and he panicked or didn't trust himself. Until you know of a second woman imagining one does no good. Even if there is one it is up to you to decide if that is a deal breaker or not in your effort to reconcile.

Work only on your side of the street. His is none of your business and your opinion on what he does or doesn't do is just that, your opinion. It will not help you meet your goal. make sure all thoughts and movements take you toward your goal. Research says it takes our spouse 6 months to see a change as a change and another 6 months to believe it is real. Nothing you do will change his opinion if that is his timetable. It does get better. One hard step is to admit where we should have acted differently without then excusing ourselves because of what they did or were doing. It is ok to have messed up or mess up. check out the al t site and see if it interests you. I have pushed it for 5 years and never had someone be disappointed. I don't know al or anything... except he has helped me and so far it has cost me $3.. I bought an mp3. If you do you will forever hear his voice when you read his stuff. He is like you would expect from his photos. great gift to all of us.

Last edited by Cadet; 06/24/16 10:18 PM. Reason: As per forum agreement do not mention other books and authors

H 50
w 49
M 26yrs
d 20
s 18
s 16
ILYBNILWY 12/10
stbxw filed 3/2011
hydin #2687572 06/25/16 06:45 PM
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JujuB Offline OP
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Thank you Jim... I'm always busy! But I havent had much of any GAL activities involving socializing, which always makes me feel better.

Absolutely right Painter. In addition to everything you said, in a way I am also mourning my identity. I loved being a wife. I never wanted to be single again. I like the comfort, and trust and sharing of lives and goals and ambitions that come with being a part of a family unit...granted that wasn't really in existence but I always thought they would be, you know? I still liked that role.

It's funny, I am forced into a role that some people willingly take or secretly desire and I have no wish for it. I have freedom. I have every other weekend to myself. I will eventually get to flirt and date and have another chance at passion and hot, new, sex. The universe is funny that way, because I recognize that stuff as temporary and very fleeting and I desired committment/family more then anything. Who knows. Maybe that feeling will change for me.

It kind of has to because I don't have much of a choice.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2687574 06/25/16 06:58 PM
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Jjb,
I know what you mean. I like the feeling of family, of stability, of comfort. There was a time for being single and wild but I guess for me, that time has passed. It really is very difficult for me to open up to another person.

Hmmm.... I do like your comment about passionate, hot new sex though.... If it ever happens.

wink


You can call me Dory/ Grl.

As a wise fish once sang,"Just keep swimming!"

It's no use to go back to yesterday because I was a different person then.
hydin #2687575 06/25/16 07:40 PM
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Thank you for posting Hydin

I didn't read your post immediatly, so missed your recommendation. Am trying to figure it out. But am very greatful for your message.

I have been focusing on husband's past and current actions way too much. When I do, it puts me into angry victim mode. Not helpful at all. I think I'm back there because legal process is starting and its a familiar place to visit. Im not sure how to proceed legally and perhaps I am villifying and focusing on husband to make process easier.

Thank you for pointing this out. I have to stop. Like now!

I was certainly not an angel throughout our marriage. I am embarassed by some of my behaviors and I like myself better now. It's not fair to focus on his behaviors when mine have not been perfect.

I think I was always hurt because I imagined he didn't care. He felt unappreciated because Nothing was ever good enough.

We were incapable of communicating...really hearing each other out.

Husband and I did not have same views on marriage and committment. I can debate till I'm blue in the face. It doesn't even matter if I am right, which I may or may not be. He did not want to be married. Case closed. I have no choice but to accept it. And yes, it is so hard for me to accept.

Currently, I cannot even talk to him. It's not out of spite. It's just that I am so hurt by his actions and abandonment that any type of real communication just ends up in fight. Any other type of communication seems like pretenses and phoniness.

This is a big 180 from the pursuing and seeking reassurances behaviors, although not helpful either.

I have no hope for reconciliation. OW is a non negotiable for me and all signs point torwards this. I'm not sure if abandonment is a non negotiable. He didn't only abandon me, he abandoned son.

This post is very jumbled, so I apologize. But truly it was helpful. Thank you.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2687585 06/25/16 08:56 PM
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Juju,

Hot sex would be great to have again!

I feel the same as you and JksD. Dreamt for years about having a family just not this way! There will be better days ahead for all of us!


H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6
S-9,8,8,6,4
S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15
EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16
PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16
XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16
Finally moving forward...
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