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Zues126 #2679411 05/20/16 07:21 PM
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(it was times like this that XW would tell me that it was too much intensity and with so much pressure she couldn't imagine being intimate...at which point I would start google searching painless suicide methods...I don't have all the answers obviously)


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues126 #2679421 05/20/16 08:20 PM
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Zues,

I don't know what to say, except that what you describe is really sad. I believe you would have been able to communicate your needs with your wife, so I am not sure as to why this was something she was not able to provide you with. There are just so many dynamics at play. I imagine its hard to not be able to receive some form of validation regarding such a strong physical need not being met.

I think your situation is one of the more challenging ones on these boards, and I am always so impressed with the way you have been able to get through it. I cannot even put into words the type of character one would have to have to get through that and remain true to their values. I understand why you would want to avoid women and relationships.

It is different for men and women. I don't feel the same rejection as I know that in my situation, there was a physiological issue behind it. I feel compassion because I can only imagine how humiliating it must have been for my husband and how much it would have disrupted his ego.

My WiFi is down...so writing from cell. I'm sorry this is so choppy and disorganized. I will come back to this and your other post though.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
Zues126 #2679422 05/20/16 08:21 PM
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Zues,

I don't know what to say, except that what you describe is really sad. I believe you would have been able to communicate your needs with your wife, so I am not sure as to why this was something she was not able to provide you with. There are just so many dynamics at play. I imagine its hard to not be able to receive some form of validation regarding such a strong physical need not being met.

I think your situation is one of the more challenging ones on these boards, and I am always so impressed with the way you have been able to get through it. I cannot even put into words the type of character one would have to have to get through that and remain true to their values. I understand why you would want to avoid women and relationships.

It is different for men and women. I don't feel the same rejection as I know that in my situation, there was a physiological issue behind it. I feel compassion because I can only imagine how humiliating it must have been for my husband and how much it would have disrupted his ego.

My WiFi is down...so writing from cell. I'm sorry this is so choppy and disorganized. I will come back to this and your other post though.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
Zues126 #2679454 05/21/16 04:17 AM
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Zeus, I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

I hear you. Although I never cut H off for years (or even months) at a time, I did not prioritize his sexual needs as much as I should have. I could have really used your 2x4 earlier in my marriage--even 2 years ago.

As it is, I had my epiphany right about the time H decided he couldn't keep holding the rope.

I have changed, but I understand why H has trouble believing those changes are real. He's not looking for perpetual satisfaction, but he does want to feel desired by his wife, and he doesn't want to go back to the marriage we had before.

I don't either. I want a better marriage with the same man.

I admire your commitment to marriage, but my value system includes a belief that sometimes leaving a marriage is necessary. Only H can decide if it is necessary for him. In the meantime, I am going to do what I can to show that I won't go back to the way I was.


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
Rose888 #2679465 05/21/16 05:25 AM
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Ju,

Know this, when another is ready to see they will, if they aren't they won't.

Stop'showing' your change, that will come across as in authentic. What changes can change back.

Instead work on you.

I can tell you that it is about your needs in a sexual environment. There is no requirement to satisfy another in this.

What is possible is to know your own needs and to satisfy those for yourself. That sounds like maturation, well that's part of it.

The sexiest organ of the human body is the mind. So it's about being the sassy person you can be. If you want Sassy take a look at Greengrass and her sassy. I admire that gal or SunnyB, or even heaven forbid that old bird Vanilla or her glam sis.

Some girls are just sexy, full stop. It isn't beauty or low cut dresses or wiggly bits. It's sexy despite jiggly bits. It's going the distance for yourself.

It's knowingredients what turns you on, it's starting the process every morning you wake up. It's being attractive to yourself. It's starting with extreme care.

It's wanting to know what is a big turn out for your partner and what isn't, as it pleases YOU to know. It's doing something for theme because it's sexy for you. So if being tied up to a lamppost singing stars and stripes isn't for you don't do it as it hurts and is damaging for you then certainly not. If your other half wants to wear a tea cosy on his head and it's harmless go along.

In my view your priority for your sexual need was low and thus your comment about low priority for his. It is his job to satisfy his needs not yours. Drop the guilt on this aspect, and say you didn't prioritise YOUR needs. As long as you concentrate on him, you miss out on you. It sounds the same and it's not.

Why not?

Your sexuality is in you, focused on you. Keep concentrating on him and it will seem like adaption. I can be Sexy for you when you need me to be, that is a desperate stance. It will come off that way.

So start being sexy for you, learn how to turn you on, so that you are sexy. If that sounds cold too, it is rather. If that sounds planned it is too. It's deliberate.

So let me tell you about me. I am deeply sexual, for me, it wasn't lack of naughties that caused my M to fail in fact H3 said recently to a mutual friend, V is the sexiest woman of all, no OW has matched her. It was other reasons that did my M in.

So what do I do?

It starts in the mind, with the thoughts of sex, it starts with dressing well, nice underwear, looking after my grooming, feeling well, being at my healthiest. Clean fresh breath, makeup.

Texts and other firts.

And yes occasionally it means getting me ready for the bedroom including getting the juices flowing. Then knowing what I want and asking for that too. As well as what my partner wants. It can mean negotiating, taking turns. It can mean a cosy night in, a fun night out, a sexy movie and a shared bath.

That's me, you may wish to examine for yourself what does this for you. Then go do some of it. Not to show another instead to show yourself. That means for you, and that is a permission from V for you to have an A with yourself. No other person to be involved but you. These are skills you learn for you.


Trust on this, others will notice. Really it's true, they will.

And this way it's permanent.

If you hit a speed bump then explore the reason, FOO, lack of desire physiologically, excess weight, or anything else. And if you discover you are one of those who needs to use the Nike approach, find a Nike approach for you.

Those are my views, it's a slightly frank post for this part of the forum. There is a section on the SSM, here withDaddylongshanks, I recommend a read.

Hugs

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Zues126 #2679611 05/21/16 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: Zues126
Agreed J.

Sandi talks a lot about how women 'test' men in relationships, and how men have to pass those tests and not let women control them or manipulate them, because if they do the women will lose respect for the man and eventually it leads to resentment, dissatisfaction, disinterest, and potentially betrayal. During the dreaded 'man cave' thread many guys talked about how expressing disinterest and being a 'bad boy' in the sense of not caring about what the woman thought or wanted was a good way to get lots of women and stay in the drivers seat of a relationship.

If that's how relationships work then I'm not interested.

I get that it's not healthy to be co-dependent, to get so caught up in someone else's feelings that you put them above everything, that you feel your only sense of worth comes from how they value you. That's not necessarily good either. And I get that if you enable someone it can bring out entitlement and other negative feelings.

But to me if I have to act a certain way, or be emotionally unavailable, or swagger around, or keep my woman in 'her place', well, it's not worth it.

I am not a social butterfly. I am not confident with women in the sense that I can't project this belief that I believe every woman wants me and should fight for me. I am not 6'2". But by god, I have confidence in myself. I know that I am a deeply passionate, sensitive, intelligent, loyal, brilliant, loving person, doing amazing things with my life, and that has the determination and commitment to bring a lot to any relationship I am in...which life-to-date has been two because I am a one woman man and don't feel entitled to play the field and find a perfect match, but rather to build a perfect near match with the one special someone that shares my character. That is me. And if that doesn't work for women and they'd rather fight over the alcoholic that gets her excited and keeps her challenged, hey, I can respect their rights to choose, but I am not interested in competing for someone that's not interested in who I am and what I do bring.

That all said, I understand being a spouse is a job to a degree. I mean, if a man desires his wife to dress nicely, it would be nice for her to choose to do that for him, because she knows it matters to him, and she loves him enough to do it even if she wouldn't normally dress sexy or girly. Likewise I may at times have to do things, act in ways, prioritize things, etc, that my spouse would want from me. If I learn that it makes her feel safe for me to act tough and macho when she's feeling vulnerable or if she struggles with entitlement and I learn that she needs me to call her out when she's acting like a brat, I will do that. But it will be out of understanding, love, and the mutual needs of our team. Not because I am selfishly trying to manipulate and control the dynamics.

Maybe I'm not articulating myself well, but yeah, this just goes with my theme of why I'm put off of relationships. And the idea that if we don't somehow do all of these things right betrayal and divorce is the natural outcome doesn't tell me I need to play the game better, it tells me I don't need to play the game at all.


I really like this post. It's about knowing who you are, honoring that and being honest with another person. I think it actually takes more confidence in your beliefs to admit your vulnerabilities or to admit to wanting something that's not typically admitted to by the norm. Or perhaps not understood by the norm.

I would never want to be tested... I remember way back in the day a guy tested me to see if I would open the lock on the car door for him...how insulting! Come on. Everyone saw that Robert deniro movie. Of course I knew to do that. Being stupid enough to give a test on something so irrelevant made me not want to deal with this person.

There aren't any tests for the things that really matter though.

I also like what you said about 2 people meeting each other needs for the good of the team unit.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2679621 05/21/16 09:00 PM
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J, your posts have been very relieving to me. It is nice to feel understood. Understanding and agreement are different things and I don't expect everyone to agree with me. But just to be heard is powerful, so thank you.

Funny time tonight, I'll post on your thread because I'm not up for bumping mine. One of my former co-workers is having a kid so he had a little outdoor gathering to celebrate. Well, I am not very social and normally don't go to stuff like this. I am usually playing pool, or chess, or reading, or something like that. I'm not antisocial to where I can't get along in a group setting, it's just not my scene. But my friend invited me a couple of times and followed up by a phone call. I realized I do like him a lot, and that life goes fast, and it would be good to go there. So I did.

It was good to see him, but as he was the only one there I knew and he was the host, I had to find others to hang out with. I invited myself to one table with a small group, and it wasn't long until I felt really out of place. My friend would call it the 'shiny shirt' club.

[Little context. This comes from pool. In pool, all of the top national players act and dress and play a certain way. It's like it's the stylish thing to do. They dress up with slacks and polo shirts, and usually have patches of sponsors on their shirts. And inevitably their shirts are super shiny. So then the players all wear their shiny shirts as if to show they've arrived, and the wannabees try dressing the same to act as if they're one of them. Me and my buddy don't wear shiny shirts, we just try to beat those that do.

In fact, one time my friend went to some bike trail where everyone was wearing spandex and aerodynamic everything, he showed up wearing a sweatshirt and jeans and hoodie, because f them all, that's why. My friend is as competitive as I am and does serious training, anyway he and a buddy were doing a triathalon and he wore the full gear. He would have had a huge lead over his friend during the running section but he waited up so they could be together. Then they got to the biking section, and not only did my friend have his full gear but he had a mountain bike, instead of the street racing bikes everyone else had, which was so detrimental he couldn't even come close to keeping up. Suddenly the friend that he had been waiting up for took off and left him behind. My buddy was pissed. After a few minutes the competitive juices woke up and he decided to catch him no matter what it took. He attacked and pedaled and got that small mountain bike going like crazy, in full sweatgear, and lo and behold he flew past his friend a few miles later and never looked back. I laughed when I heard that story. Point is they can all have their shiny shirts, I believe in grit.]

OK, so everyone at this table was super cool, designer clothes, perfect work out physique for the guys and perfect tan and accessories for the women, brand name sunglasses, every wife was a dance instructor, etc. They were talking about this and that, what the right number of kids to have is, baby names, etc. I found myself having my first beer in months wondering what I was doing. I tried to work into the conversation with a few questions or the occasional quip and I didn't fail, but it was obvious to me and probably to them that I was a different species.

Then I caught up with one guy elsewhere that started talking about a game he's into. I met him once before at a poker game hosted by my same former co-worker so greeted him. Turns out he was a gamer, and started talking about different games and some of the subculture. Boom. I was in my element. I asked him a ton of questions and let him tell me all about the nuances of different cult followings. He gave me a little bit of an ear beating but it was at least interesting, and I did contribute a bit to the conversation as well. He's not going to be my new best friend (my best friend always says that to be a good friend you need to be interesting and interested...interesting to listen to, and interested in who you are talking to...this guy was interesting to an extent but not interested in me, which is funny because I'm likely to be the best competitor that he's ever met in his life and he's ear beating me about games for an hour without asking me anything, but whatever). But it was good to be able to be myself and at least hang out for a bit without wanting to stab myself in the leg.

Moral of the story? Hm, well, first I suppose it was good that I at least tried to GAL. Second, I was reminded how different I am from many people. I forget because I only really associate with people that are in the brilliant-depressed-obsessive-competitive-artistic-intense-tormented-outlier like category, so I forget that I'm a little odd myself because when I talk to that group I feel quite normal. But in most normal settings I am reminded that I'm a little unusual. The point of all of this is, though, that I realize that while I'm a little different, that's ok, because I do fit in somewhere. It's just not the shiny shirt club.

Ug, what a pointless long hijack. That's ok. It's actually a test. If you reply to this last sentence then I know you read the whole thing and I will keep posting on your threads. If you don't, I'll know you are too shallow to be a DB partner... wink


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
JujuB #2679629 05/21/16 10:49 PM
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(((Jjb)))

I love hugs and I am hoping that these vurtual hugs can help to release some of those oxytocin that I am craving. Sigh. I miss those years when I was breastfeeding kid. I prob won't be able to have another kid to breastfeed again.

I like V's idea about having an A with ourselves. You're a great mum who has sacrificed a lot for your boys. Maybe it's time for you to put the spotlight back on yourself? What is one deliciously decadent event that you've always put off because life was too busy? What say you if you tried it now?

I like V's idea about naughty stuff that we can wear, even if we're the only ones to see it. smile

I am also looking at pole dancing but am not too keen on the many bruises I will be sporting. Or something else that will keep me active.


You can call me Dory/ Grl.

As a wise fish once sang,"Just keep swimming!"

It's no use to go back to yesterday because I was a different person then.
Zues126 #2679630 05/21/16 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: Zues126



It's actually a test. If you reply to this last sentence then I know you read the whole thing and I will keep posting on your threads. If you don't, I'll know you are too shallow to be a DB partner... wink


Priceless.


You can call me Dory/ Grl.

As a wise fish once sang,"Just keep swimming!"

It's no use to go back to yesterday because I was a different person then.
Zues126 #2679656 05/22/16 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted By: Zues126



Moral of the story? Hm, well, first I suppose it was good that I at least tried to GAL. Second, I was reminded how different I am from many people. I forget because I only really associate with people that are in the brilliant-depressed-obsessive-competitive-artistic-intense-tormented-outlier like category, so I forget that I'm a little odd myself because when I talk to that group I feel quite normal. But in most normal settings I am reminded that I'm a little unusual. The point of all of this is, though, that I realize that while I'm a little different, that's ok, because I do fit in somewhere. It's just not the shiny shirt club.

Ug, what a pointless long hijack. That's ok. It's actually a test. If you reply to this last sentence then I know you read the whole thing and I will keep posting on your threads. If you don't, I'll know you are too shallow to be a DB partner... wink


Haha

This is really funny. These forums are sad, but also funny. I mean seriously. What type of people are we to obsess and philosophize and research and spend the amount of time that we do here ??? Some of the comments on here are so well thought out and structured and filled with depth and absolutely brilliant though! No wonder our spouses left us!

I Talked about this with a friend I believe is my female soul mate. We talked about "owning our crazy".

Shiny shirts are flashy and boring.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
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