Met with my IC tonight. Nothing earth shattering there, talked about the counseling that W & I will do for coparenting.
Read a few more pages of DR book. If only I had a M to work on the material might be really useful.
Talked to a FF on the phone. I plan to spend the weekend at my brother's, as usual when I don't have the kids, he'll likely have some projects for me to work on.
My self esteem is not coming back. I am scared to death of the idea of going out in public. Scared of the idea of doing some of the activities with the kids that used to include W, because I will miss not having her help.
I posted this in Zephyr's thread, thought I should put it here also for myself or others following my thread:
Zephyr, I hear you about conditioning from dealing with your mother. Living with my parents has sure been an eye opener for me. Every discussion with my mother results in her having extreme anger, spewing hate at me, etc. The next day she'll tell me how she agrees with everything I said. WTF? I ask her to stop hovering, she can't. I ask her to stop interfering with my children, she can't. This feels so familiar, I realize that has been the trend my entire life. This is what caused me to be who I am.
These patterns repeated in my M. What causes us to either retaliate in anger (aka fear) like I do, or back down in fear like you do? Patterns in our M, or patterns from our parents? Then, did we marry our mother or father? They fit our life so well because they are a photocopy of the dysfunction we are used to experiencing?
I have the opposite end, but same problem. My W learned to not trust me because of the anger, or because I tried to fix her. Neither extreme works. Being open, honest, AND most of all calm I think is the solution? It takes all 3 at the same time to be effective?
I have a theory I shared with my brother the other day. When someone vents without thinking, whether writing or talking or yelling, their true feelings come out. I have noticed this in text messages I used to get from W. I know her well, I can read a text that she wrote, and know that even though she was terrible at sharing, when she did share, what she wrote was genuine, that she didn't ever filter anything. Her lack of empathy or lack of intelligence or whatever was the issue, prevented her from having a filter. Her perception is way off from the norm, way off from logic, but still genuine. Her method of response is extremely hurtful (the OFP is a prime example), but still the "right thing to do" from her perspective.
Running everything through a filter first is designed to protect others, or to protect ourselves from not appearing a certain way to others (more fear). The more thought out your posts are, the less genuine they are? What are you really p'd off about that you are filtering? I am sure you have noticed the lack of filter in my posts. My "wrong" thoughts are right there in the open. Fear of what others think is not part of why I journal. I hope my W never reads the things I have written, or anyone else that I know, but I know I am being honest with myself. I should post this in my thread also I guess.
Here's the part that confuses me... do we filter or share with brutal honestly in a M?
one thing we have to understand is when we hide our true feelings it generates untrustworthyness and you start to lose that closeness that you get with a deep trust...that is in a normal, healthy relationship
we were not holding up our end of that honesty bargain. you can fix your side and you don't need to be involved in a marriage to do it.
our spouses have used hiding, lying, deceit and omission as a first line defense for a long time. they want to feel normal, to appear normal so they pretend and hide all of those feelings of shame and hurt and whatnot.
they will need to figure out on their own...or they will continue to pretend who they appear to be is real.
I think brutal honesty only works in a marriage with two highly differentiated people.
I'm reading a book about passion in marriage that talks about differentiation a lot, so right now all marriage problems look like differentiation problems. ;-)
I'm realizing that some of the issues I thought were marriage issues were really my issues. H has his own issues, but I can make a big difference just by fixing the ones I own and becoming more differentiated.
Me: 44 H: 44 Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10 Together/Married: 22 years H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16 H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
the 'i feel' approach is a way to help take some of the defensiveness away from being honest with people.
maybe not a true black and white issue here either...still figuring this one out
I tried this on my mother a couple times. I told her that something she said felt condescending. She blew up at me. Then made some comment about not knowing what condescending means. Wow, wrong person to test theories on!
My IC has a poster in her office.
Under one column is: Core self Love Caring Open Accepting Collaborative Thoughtful Curious/interested Gentle Authentic/Real Creative Requesting Flexible Forgiving Benefit of doubt Generous Approachable Reliable WISE
Other column: Reactive self Fear/anger Harsh Skeptical Stingy Defensive Quick to judge Make wrongs Blaming I win/I'm right Critical Stonewalling Accusing "Always" or "never" Demanding Disrespectful Keeping score Dumb
My approach was always brutal honesty. Maybe too brutal, I didn't filter enough what I said. I didn't use the "I feel...." approach, I used the "you have to..." approach too often. Examples: You have to stop spending so much. When are you going to actually come home? What do I have to buy you for you to want to be here? Where are the kids? When do I get to spend time with them? When are you going to be the adult? (Regarding W interacting with the children) Now what are you doing? (if W wasn't home, yet again)
A lot of those examples were in the last year when the kids activities got excessive.
Talked to a cousin yesterday. She was saying she saw W and POM shopping a few weeks ago, but not walking together, maybe because they saw my cousin. And saw them again a couple days ago, POM with his granddaughter and my D9, separately MIL with my S11, and W by herself looking at something. Frustrating! Guess I'm going to have to get used to it.
My cousin was also saying W usually put her nose down when she sees her at the school, but one day W says hi nicely, there was no one else around. Cousin was saying she is acting weird sometimes, make-up all done up (which she used to only do for weddings and similar) when going to the school, flinging her hair like she is being sexy. I loved W regardless of how she looked, but she is not sexy.
My cousin also said POM is creepy. A few years ago POM sent a friend request on FB to my cousin after POM saw her on the street, but they never talked. She is over 20 years younger than POM. And he was still married at the time.
Read some more of DR. Would have been handy info years ago.
Read some more on codependence, still wondering to myself if I want W back because I want her back or because of the codependence. The withdrawals are painful, similar but much worse than trying to quit smoking.
Talked to a friend today, the one who's wife left him for an A, 3 1/2 years ago, she was a boomerang, they are piecing now, very slowly. His story is sad, he is so beaten down! He tried dating while she was gone, was with one girl for 5 months, and said he could never get his mind off his W. And now trying to forgive all the hurt she caused, I can hear the pain in his voice. But he's not giving up on her. He keeps telling me "your W will be back, you'll see." I don't want to end up like him!!!
I just read Bluwave's thread again. I have come to a conclusion, that I am trying to make stick. I do NOT want a R with my xW ever again. Anyone capable of causing such cold hearted destruction, was clearly not the right person for me. I am tired of making excuses for her behavior. Her past caught up to her, her morals are all screwed up, and I really don't need toxic people in my life. I hope to find love again, maybe true love next time, maybe happier than ever. No more holding on to her to prevent me from facing my fears of being alone. No more using the kids as an excuse for wanting her back.
In 7 months I have not had 30 seconds of relief from the anxiety. My chest muscles twitch approximately in pace with my heartbeat, then it moves to my stomach muscles being tight and twitching, then moves to my back muscles being tight. It seems to move depending on my mood or what I am thinking about. I haven't researched or nailed down which feelings cause what, all I know is it is getting old! My hands shake with every movement. And my list of fears is not getting any shorter. I am a full blown mess still. I have let this person destroy me, and still do.
I spent the weekend at my brother's house. I helped him with projects, played a game for a while today even. No relief during any of this. Sitting in a lawn chair looking at the lake, peaceful, calm, a slight breeze, the sound of relatives talking behind me, this should have been euphoria. My brother asked how I was doing. I was not doing well. I looked at him and cried. So nice having someone care enough to ask. To receive something that was missing from my entire M. Something missing from my entire childhood.
I went and visited a FF for a few hours. That was the closest I have felt to relief in a long time. And not because I have any interest in dating her, I think because it is just so refreshing to talk to someone who understands and cares. Her personality gives me hope that I will find someone way better than my xW. What is interesting, I dated her many years ago. We didn't click, it ended. And we are still friends. This is how healthy people deal with break-ups.
I honestly don't think it is possible for xW to become the person I would want. We had fun together, but she was so unable to emotionally connect, her twisting every word I said when we talked about emotions should have been a sign a long time ago. Her telling the kids last summer I was mean to them should have been the last straw. She was a narcissist more than I ever knew? Why did I stay? Love is blind? Codependence made me stay in a toxic R? All the way back to early years she was controlling me, and I let her. Her telling me about her past when we first met to see if I would stay, unfortunately I passed the test. I read in her personal journal that she had done this to guys before we met, and they would run. Ironic, xW was posting her meme's on FB about how she had been wronged, her past not defining who she is today, etc. POM had posted on FB something about "everyone has demons, we just have to find someone whose demons play well together."
Her telling me I am not allowed to go out with friends. Her telling me "if you won't have kids with me I will find someone who will." Why didn't I run?
Some irony here. I feel like I can't fully let go until I vent this all to xW. I want to unload this all on her. Let her know I was wrong to blame myself, how wrong she was. What good would it do? Probably nothing. Would it help me get over my pain? Would it fix her? Why do I still want to fix her?
I still feel closure will only come when she comes crawling back, so I can see a genuine remorse. What will I do? Will I validate or spit in her face? Or validate and then spit in her face?
So many questions!!! But now on to facing my other fears, and the list is long! I was so content a month before BD, and now I am so scared that I can't figure out what I am going to do with my kids when I have them tomorrow. Someone please tell me I am not the only one who suffers so terribly from codependence!
