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SH_ #2680830 05/26/16 08:54 AM
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Hi Painter

It sounds like your starting to do better. I am so glad.

You are right that we all have to handle this the way that works best for us. I am kind of like phoebe. I actually feel a little sick when I receive husbands texts.

For me, It is all or nothing. I feel really strong about this and I would prefer no contact for the rest of our lives. We do have to coparent though. It's tough because I want son to have good relationship with his father for sons sake, but I just don't want to talk to husband. I dread any text or communication with him. I actually get that pit feeling in my stomach when we have to.

I am sure husband feels the same way about me.

Wonder if this goes away with time?


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2680871 05/26/16 10:20 AM
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Or you get used to living with the pit... It seems to have been there for two years for me, coming and going a little.

I notice that I get shaky when WH gets angry at me. That's the worst part for me. I shouldn't care at this point but I can't stand it when he shuts me out or is angry. Maybe because it's been that way for so many years that I'm stuck in that pattern.

I was reading an article about gaslighting and a lot of what H did fell into that category, although I don't think he was calculating when he did it like it was in the movie. But a lot of 'you're overreacting', 'just let it go/stop beating a dead horse', etc. when I reacted to his angry outburst and rages and he felt he was done venting. Eventually, I started shutting down when it happened and I was then accused of 'not showing any emotion'.

Sorry, think I went off on a tangent there...


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2681009 05/26/16 07:35 PM
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Tangents are good, Painter. Letting your mind do some exploring can take you just where you need to go sometimes to gain new insight or understanding.

You really do sound a lot better today. I like to hear that you are looking forward to helping your new clients and working in your new space. That's really great!

I hope that you get a good night's sleep, preferably sans dreams of H.


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
Phoebe #2681015 05/26/16 07:51 PM
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Painter,

The pit will go away when it is ready to go away. Just because it has been there for so long means that you are a loving and caring person no matter how bad the H is.

Sleep well and enjoy the weekend!


H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6
S-9,8,8,6,4
S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15
EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16
PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16
XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16
Finally moving forward...
J5K #2681065 05/27/16 03:43 AM
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Morning, all... Woke with a start at 5am, as usual. Too early, and with the realization that this is really happening and not just a bad dream. It feels surreal.

Discussed narcissism last night with someone who was in an abusive relationship with one, and then read several articles about it. WH fits in many, many ways. I think perhaps many who are in the middle of an affair can act like narcissist, but I wonder if he was one all along. My T thinks he sounds like he has many of the traits, and although I don't want to put him in a box and diagnose him, it has a huge impact on whether I should continue DBing with any though of ever saving the M or if I should put as much distance as possible between us and count myself lucky I got out.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2681145 05/27/16 07:22 AM
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Let go of any and all thoughts of saving your M. Let those die.

You can continue to DB and change your own behavior in the sense of trying to be a better person for yourself. But forget the idea of him changing his behavior in response to anything you do. Do what you do for you, accept his decisions, and detach from him emotionally.

This is what we're supposed to do on day 1. Unfortunately that isn't possible. In my case it took a much larger BD to wake me up to reality after which I was able to go down my own road.

And no, WH wasn't a narcissist. Just part of a culture that endorses this crap to the point that OW can post pictures of her with your WH and others can 'like' them. If anyone has a personality disorder it is our country.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues126 #2681203 05/27/16 09:51 AM
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Zues, I'm not thinking at all about him changing his behavior in response to anything I do. That wasn't even on my mind. I'm at a point where I am changing rather abruptly from grieving over losing all hope and my lost M and the shock over him moving OW in, to realizing that he is in fact a narcissist and has been all along, and I am lucky to get out because he can't have a real relationship.

Some people are actual narcissists and people who try to understand, analyze and help, get caught up in it.

It explains a lot of what he did over the years, way before OW, way before things started getting really bad. It explains why he answered, when the first year we were married I asked him why it seemed like he treated his ex-wife with more respect than he treated me, 'I'm not afraid of you'. Narcissists only treat people they are afraid of, well.

It explains why he was resentful with his D when she moved in with her BF, and refused to visit her when she asked him. He said she could come to see him - but she didn't have a car so she couldn't. He didn't care, and didn't see her for almost a year.

It also explains why he didn't tell her that OW had moved in before she came to visit, but saved it as a 'surprise'. He knew she would disapprove and wouldn't give her the chance to bow out. He did not care about her feelings at all. It also explains why he thought SD would be happy swapping me out for OW, having no thoughts of the actual emotional connection I have with my SD.

It explains why every time I wanted emotional closeness through the entire M, he reacted with either rage or withdrawal (that's what narcissists do).

It fits with him focusing his energies on negative thoughts - talking badly about others, raging about politics, drivers, not getting the proper respect at work for his superior skills (he does feel he knows more than anyone else and gets enraged if they don't respect his knowledge), etc.

It explains why he seemed to appreciate some part of me while other, seemingly similar parts caused resentment. I just realized that everything he could show off to others, he liked. Any interest I had that took my focus away from him, caused resentment. He says the M started breaking down for him when I went into business for myself.

He has repeatedly expressed jealousy of the pets, that I treated them too well. He says I feel too much. I have too much empathy and care too much about the world.

And it fits with refusing to show me affection while still being angry over not getting his own needs met. And admitting that he was unwilling to compromise on anything. Narcissists are okay with who they are, they don't feel bad about it or want to change.

There's so much more... Have to go to work. I will discuss this with my T but I actually feel a lot of relief right now.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2681290 05/27/16 02:58 PM
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I should clarify that this is not a new thought to me (or others who know him). Even he has an idea - last year he said he thought something might be wrong with him because he didn't feel much empathy. I suggested he read about narcissism.

But with the distance and the extreme recent behavior, I revisited the thought and found a well of information that completed the picture that was half done already. It just took me so aback.

I'm going to talk to our MC.


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Painter #2681337 05/27/16 08:46 PM
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My H told me that he went through a set of online tests for narcissism and also to see if he was a sociopath. He mentioned this after I discovered his affair.

It was very strange that he brought it up, and he had to point out that neither model seemed to fit him. On the other hand it showed that he recognized that on some level he should feel much worse about his behavior than he actually does.

Anyway, back to your sitch: How does identifying this character trait change things for you, Painter? I hope that doesn't sound brusque, because I am not being critical in the slightest about this line of thought that you are following now. I'm genuinely curious. You felt like you lost your last bit of hope a few days ago. Does recognizing his narcissism help you put his behavior into a broader context? Does it give you a better understanding of the path your R took? If it helps you to sort things out, then I say do the research.

I know that understanding the timeline of my H's waywardness helped me make more sense out of the changes I felt in our R over the last couple years. Hindsight is very powerful.

Sleep well dear Painter.


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
Phoebe #2681346 05/27/16 09:41 PM
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I think it helps me realize that I can let completely go, because nothing I could do would have changed a thing. The only thing that might have improved the M was if I completely eradicated myself as a person and lived only to please him. It would have involved superhuman abilities like mindreading. So obviously not an option. But that is what OW is trying.

What happened was inevitable, given this, and I see how his previous marriages have followed the same path and the next one will, too.

It doesn't mean I was perfect or was not at fault or couldn't have been more understanding or sensitive - but it does mean that much of what I felt was valid and much of H's behavior was out of line. But I have learned so much about myself and what I want to do differently in another R and that I have to learn what a healthy R looks like.

I wonder if your H experienced the lack of empathy that I think an affair can bring with it. Maybe it wasn't there before. In my H's case, the narcisstic pattern was there all the time, I just didn't do anything about it because I really didn't have many options (financially dependent in a foreign country with no family).


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
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