Take a Number

[bttrfly]

Hi Ha Who,
I am with Mleigh - you know your world best, however I have to say this new development is a bit concerning. The people who need the most help are often those thinking others are the problem. Your husband seems like a good example of that.
I also agree with you about the emotional abuse. Only you can decide when enough is enough with the status quo and that it's time to do something different.

Is there something wrong with his thyroid? I ask because both hypothyroid and hyperthyroid can cause psychosis. When was his last physical? Is there some way to plant the idea of getting a checkup in his head while making him think it's his idea? Xoxoxo

[mleigh4]

Just adding to a few people, this may be something physical and not just MLC. Remember, we can't diagnose them. I think suggesting a physical is a great idea.

[HaWho]

Hi all - just a quick post as I have only a few minutes.

KML - he had pneumonia as a child. But by the time he was taken to the hospital he was gravely ill and he knew it.

Unlike some in MLC, he is on top of his doctor's appointments. A month ago, I left his mail on his desk and there was a copy of his latest blood results. Everything was within the normal range. But I don't remember seeing if they tested his TSH level.

I am open to suggesting he see a doctor, but man, I am just not sure how he'll take it. And I am not sure how much to say as he truly thinks I am the problem.

Someone asked about what my sisters think of all this. One sees the depression and thinks the only way to help is to shake things up and see if I can wake him up. The other (the one he's been very chatty with) sees him as being very normal oftentimes. That mask is plastered on for her. But she saw the dishes in the garbage last week and read the text with her own eyes so she also is trying to wrap her head around it all.

H sent me a text this morning. He politely asked me to watch my spending this month! It is a fraction of what he spent last month but high for me as my car needed worked, the shampooing vacuum broke (repaired that) and I had to buy food/prepare for two house guests.

I found it reassuring that he is looking at the accounts. His text was not tit-for-tat but more like he is trying to say "I am being more fiscally responsible." He hasn't spent anything since "our talk."

I explained where I spent the money and told him things will calm down once I return from NYC. Again, it's a pittance compared to what he spent on himself last month.

I found his interest noteworthy given that he told me to do my thing and he would do his thing until fall. Hmm.

[HaWho]

BTW - forgot to post one other important detail.

Although the paranoia may be compounded by something physical, I still believe it could be linked to MLC. He told me that as a kid he had locked himself in his closet to get away from all that was going on in his childhood home. And he has called his dorm room his "closet." I wonder if he hasn't taken control back of his recreated environment by putting a lock on there. And then, as a kid, he would leave the house as much as possible.

So I see HUGE parallels. I know it sounds nuts but I think he has replicated his childhood home and environment as much as possible. Even early on, post BD he told me I could go do x, y and z. They were some crazy things I would NEVER do. But they were all things his mother did when he was a kid. I did say to him: "I am not your mother and I would never do those things for one day of my life."

[job]

HaWho,
You can shake things up, but it won't wake him up. He has to do that on his own. As for suggesting he see a doctor, I wouldn't do so. However, I would inquire in a roundabout way how his last visit went...but that's one you will need to determine when to do so. He may tell you and then again, he may not. They truly do not think that there is a whole lot wrong w/them and I have a feeling your h doesn't see anything wrong w/himself at this time.

As for the spending...did his parents spend a lot of money on stuff and didn't save or spend it on the kids? Maybe that is where the concern is coming from on the money front. Then again, he may be wanting to ensure that there is money in the account for his spending pleasure.

As for his dorm room and paranoia, yes, it's all part of the mlc. What has happened is that your h has moved into the next phase of is replay actions and paranoia can and will escalate if they think someone is invading their space. What can you do, reassure him at some point that you aren't going to invade his space and the food that you are preparing is being eaten by the rest of the family w/no indication of anyone getting sick from it. All you can do is reassure him. The old saying "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink it" is so true w/these crisis people.

Now, the dorm room, is his childhood closet. He feel safe in there and doesn't have to deal w/reality while in there. In his mind, you are his authority figure, i.e., mother. He is looking to you to see if you will be like his mother...NOT! He is doing everything humanly possible to bait and test you and when he finally gets it that you aren't going to behave like his mother, he may very well stop some of the crazy behavior. However, if he gets to far out in left field, call him on it right then and there. He's acting out like a child and you certainly would call them on their behavior right then and there when it occurs.

I'm keeping you and your family in my thoughts and prayers as the seas of MLC are very rough right now. I hope that once your family leaves and you've returned from NY, things will settle down.

Dig deeper for patience because you are definitely going to need it for a while. Good luck!

[HaWho]

Thanks Job. I have no intention of trying to wake him up. I know it can't be done. I was really just answering what my sisters thought. And really, I am not sure they believe in MLC. I can't blame them. Prior to this, I wouldn't have believed it myself. The sister who thinks I should shake things up? She says I should throw something slinky on and just appear before him. I said nothing. It just showed me that they don't really get the gravity of it all. Uh, no. A romp in the hay will not fix this. But thanks.

The other sister hinted that maybe I caused this because I went through my own depression. She was trying to help. She wants to believe it's smaller than what it is. I was able to turn to her and assert that I did not cause this. And I know I did not. That was a nice change in me as I did blame myself for so very long. But, seeing what I have seen, he is back in a different time in his life and I am his mother not his wife and not his friend. And I can see that right now, he hates me as he hated his mother.

Speaking of his mother, yeah, she's always spent too much. Way too much and way beyond her means. I was raised completely the opposite. We were first generation and poor but if we didn't have the money, we didn't buy it. I feel safe with money in the bank; his mother feels safe with constant retail therapy.

Many, many moons ago, when I saw that my MIL was medicating through shopping, I suggested we do a secret Santa, which is what my family does. We buy for the kids, but for the adults, you draw one name out of a hat and buy 1 meaningful gift capped at $50. When I suggested it, kindly, she started to cry! She was in her 50's at this point. We are polar opposites. I have absolutely nothing in common with her.

There are many other parallels I see. I know he is back in time working out things with his mother.

I too wonder how much of this was brought on by the anxiety of family visiting. It's too bad it has been so hard on him. But it has been good for me as I need the support. And my kids have needed some Auntie doting, too!

Let's see what happens once everyone is gone.

[bttrfly]

Hi HaWho ... What resonates here with me is the parallels to your H's childhood. I see the same thing with my husband. The vitriol he has spewed at me is exactly directed at his father. In our case, my H has reverted to the most traumatic time in his life, which was his parents divorce when he was a young teen and his father's re-marriage and subsequent new family with a school friend's mother. He has said things to me that make no sense in any other context - meaning he's really saying them to his father, with me in that role. The most telling was a passionately angry, "you have ignored me and made me feel unloved for years!!!" which is so completely how his dad made him feel and completely NOT consistent with the behavior of a wife who doted on him. There are other examples I've experienced as well, which all add up to tell me that my H is approximately 10-15 years old, at any given time. There is a part of me - what the Buddhists would call the Fiercely Compassionate part - which understands he's created this to heal from his deepest hurt, and I do feel that he's doing it with me because on some level I'm the one he trusts most to help him heal from this deepest wound. Perhaps that is also true of your H.

Re: doctor, maybe next time he's talking about his age, one of your sisters could say that there are specific tests recommended when one turns 50 and has he made an appointment for his physical? Might be easier coming from someone else and in that context although with the paranoia, who knows?

Again, you know your situation better than anyone, and you also know how much you can handle. We are here for you whenever you need us. Sending massive hugs your way xoxoxoxo

[HaWho]

Hi Bttrfly - thanks for the post and the advice. And I agree that they often project heavily onto their spouses.

So the little boy came out today and in front of my sisters! They have been shocked and mystified by how rebellious he has become. But today they saw the cute, little huggable boy. And even they could not deny what their eyes showed them.

I was making dinner: steak, cheesy potatoes and roasted vegetables. Dinner was almost ready. S12 requested this meal this week and it happens to be a favorite of h's, too. It's a household favorite. Both sisters said he would eat this and not be able to resist. I begged to differ.

H comes in as we are helping ourselves to the buffet style dinner. He asked the sister he is closer to if she would like an English muffin with butter. She pauses and is caught off guard. She says no, that she prefers this well balanced meal. And she suggests he too should eat a well balanced meal. (She is talking to him like he is 14 and making poor dietary choices.)

I am fixing my plate and the same sister is at the table with h. She tells him he should eat. He says no. He is resilient and fixes no plate for himself. She shakes her head at him and they just stare at each other.

At dinner h lashes out saying that his food as a kid was really bad. That they had no money. (I think he is jealous that my kids have good food. So odd! But he is comparing heir food to his.) We all listen but there is a lot of anger in it and none of us really know what to say so we just listen. Before we are all done eating h is up out of his chair, antsy like S10. He goes outside and then seems antsy when he comes in again. He talks to S10 who is playing by himself. And it so reminds me of the adults talking/eating while the kids play. S12 stays at the table with the adults.

One funny thing is that when h said he would not eat, one sister said he looked like he was salivating over the dinner. The other jokingly asked if he was dieting. Then she again said to him that he should eat a healthy meal. S12 started to do the airplane feeding thing with h and we all laughed. It was quite a fitting feeding process given his mental age these days. H took it in stride. That surprised me.

After dinner he is back in his closet. The sister who is close to him says to me that the bad food comment was a cry for help. I agree.

We all decide to take the dog for a walk and I invite h. Usually he just gives a curt no. This time he says something interesting. He says in a rejected tone, "no, I will just be taking attention from the boys." The sister who is closer to him overhears and gets saucer eyes. She recognizes this is not an adult. I say: "come, there is plenty of attention for you." He is silent. And my sister says: yes, we are all going and we are paging you." (I wish I had gone in and given him a hug. If he says this sort of thing again, I will be ready.) Instead we jokingly paged him like we would do for a kid that needed to be laughed out of a bad mood.

He does come. He talks a little. We joke with him a bit. Sometimes he is warm and sometimes his is aloof. He is like a boy getting over a slight.

He made a flash of eye contact with me this morning and gave me a quick, kind of fake smile. Otherwise he is still ignoring me completely.

And we solved the mystery on why the plants were moved outside. H told favored sister that they are supposed to purify the air. (Remember he positioned them outside his room!!!) But he said they smelled bad so he moved them outside. How funny is that?

[Irish M]

Hi HaWho

Wow having your sisters witness your H's MLC age. That must be so reassuring that he is really in MLC. I know a lot of spouses here have 9/10 MLC symptoms from the checklist but we always have small doubts. Maybe it is me, maybe he's ok and this is who they truly are.

He is surely reliving his traumas as a child . Hopefully he will leave his Dorm (closet) and rejoin his family


Hugs
Irish

[bttrfly]

validation is a beautiful thing!!! seems like you are getting glimpses of where he is at. xoxoxoxo