Lost at the moment

[betterm]

AS long as this is not causing you pain and you feel this gives you insight into her, then stay the course. The thing about DBing is you do what works and throw out what doesn't work. Detachment is the name of the game and if you can remain detached then go for it.

I think this is something people forget on here. There is no "one size fits all" approach to DBing. What works for me, what works for SS, probably won't work for someone else. The guidelines are here for a reason, they work, but it's up to each individual to take those guidelines and apply them to how it fits into their own sitch.

I don't see anything wrong with approaching the EA/OM, like SS said, as long as it doesn't affect you in a negative way. What's your 'ultimate goal'. As coach always says, does what I'm about to say, or what I'm about to do, take me closer to my goals, or take me further away? Only you can know the answer to that.

[lfm]

Thanks for the support all. I appreciate the insight from each of you.

With that said, there are moments where some of our conversations do cause pain, and I have to be extremely careful in those moments, as I've learned the hard way that it can make me start acting depressed and needy and that's one of the things that pushes my W away, but for the most part the conversations are good and it does give me some insight into where she is. I know I still have a long road ahead of me, but her moments of clarity where she indicates she knows there is nothing long term with the OM gives me some hope that three is a path forward with her. It may be a ways down the road, but I believe if I can continue to do my thing on my terms and have enough patience that we'll eventually get there.

[betterm]

but her moments of clarity where she indicates she knows there is nothing long term with the OM gives me some hope that three is a path forward with her. .

Do you think she is actively involving herself in a relationship that she knows will only hurt her down the road? Or perhaps, shes rather, telling you something she is more "unsure" about so she can 'cake eat'?

Not sure about your W, but mine would not start a new relationship with someone only to know it's going to devastate her in the future. I'm not saying you're wrong, or she's lying, but remember the rules... she will say anything to get what she wants right now.

[lfm]

Actually, that's an interesting question. From what I am getting from our conversations, she knows she needs to end the relationship, she recognizes the damage that she is doing and has shown remorse for everything she's done/doing. But with that said, she also recognizes the addiction is so strong and that she's not strong enough to end it. She's tried pulling away from him a couple of times, and then feels the pull/withdrawals of the addiction and ends up letting him back in.

Maybe when we get into the new house and I can establish some new boundaries she'll finally get to the point of truly realizing what her future looks like if she doesn't end things with the OM. And maybe that won't make any difference. I realize I can't make this happen and she needs to figure it out, so just trying to be a patient.

[doodler]

From what I am getting from our conversations, she knows she needs to end the relationship, she recognizes the damage that she is doing and has shown remorse for everything she's done/doing. But with that said, she also recognizes the addiction is so strong and that she's not strong enough to end it.

lfm,

I was going to ask you if your wife felt any remorse or uneasiness when she talks about the OM, but you answered my question.

If I were having an affair (I never have), I think I'd have great difficulty talking to my wife about the OW as long as it was an active affair. It just seems to go so far across moral and ethical boundaries that I don't think I could do it.

I guess that's what really baffles me is that it seems like she feels comfortable talking to you about the OM. And I understand that she's in a fog, but it's so brazen that I can't fully comprehend the situation. I can't get my mind wrapped around it.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be crass, I'm just trying to grasp the situation. It's something that I'm unable to resolve internally.

[lfm]

I completely understand what you are saying doodler. I have trouble trying to wrap my head around some of it as well, but am trying to look at it as the start of a new friendship as the marriage we had is over. To me it's about being there for her as a friend as needed and trying to establish new levels of communication and see if we can try to rebuild things from there at some point.

The thing that gets easier is that I've got so many details at this point that there is nothing that really suprises me anymore. It's still difficult sometimes, but trying my best to separate my emotions to look at the big picture.

As far as being brazen, I don't think that's necessarily her intent. She still hides plenty of things, and really just starts talking about it when things are going poorly with the OM. I'm the only person she vents too about this as she won't say anything to her best friends or her family, so in some respects, I feel like its a good thing to be able to be there for her in that capacity.

Like I've said before by looking at the big picture I think that by listening to her vent about her relationship with the OM, I can pick up on things that I need to evaluate within myself and that by having the details that I do, that if we do get to the point of reconcilliation that it will hopefully be a faster process because there won't be the same level of anger or need for information becuase I'll have alread worked through that.

I think I've still got a long ways to go on this, and trying to focus on one day at a time.

[betterm]

If I were having an affair (I never have), I think I'd have great difficulty talking to my wife about the OW as long as it was an active affair. It just seems to go so far across moral and ethical boundaries that I don't think I could do it.

Do you think this applies if, what was once a PA, is now only an EA? The judgement is so clouded, I'm not sure what a WW would think if the person they had a PA with, is now only someone they connect with to restore that emotional connection they've lost from the addictive nature of an affair (limerance). I could see the offender breaking the association of the PA and EA being different things.

[lfm]

I believe it actually goes back and forth. From what I've seen and heard.

about 5 weeks ago my W indicated that she needed to end it, but continued texting and calling the OM. Last week she left one night and I know it was to see him, pretty sure they were intimate, so it returned to a PA. They both ended up sick over the weekend, and she hasn't seen him since. She told me she started to head over there on Monday night, but started feeling bad on the way over and just ended up talking to him (verified that was the case because she drove back to the apartment and sat in her car while she was talking).

Tuesday night they had their latest argument, she vented to me told me what had happened, and that she knows that this isn't right and expressed regret for what she's done.

She wasn't on her phone last night that I'm aware of, but woke up around 11:45 because she had gotten out of bed, came back and looked at her phone. I don't think she sent any texts, but pretty sure she was reading some. So I don't think this is close to actually being over at this point, but each one of these experiences I think gets her closer to realizing she needs to end that relationship.

Sorry that got a little long winded, back to your original question, I think it's gone back and forth between EA/PA.

[Zephyr]

Hi LFM, i have some questions to think about...if you would.

Where is your line in the sand here with your wife's ongoing affair?

At what point does her disrespectful behavior cross your non-negotiable boundary...what will you do.

in most cases, i too have a soft heart. i really like your thoughts when you post to others threads. i too error on the side of being compassionate and tend to give advice in that direction. i am not sure i understand your position here. it is one thing to ignore an affair and live your life, and not support your wife's disrespect, but you seem to be...how do i saw this...telling your wife it is ok.

there is a difference. one is saying that your wife is a grown woman, can make her own choices and you cannot change that. you are going to live your life.

the other is to say, i do not mind that you are disrespecting me and this marriage, that this ongoing behavior is OK in my book...and that it doesn't bother me. i believe there is a term for a man in this position. it is a cuckold. you are basically telling your wife that you are fine with that humiliation.

are you?

sorry if that comes off as vulgar...it is the best term i could think of to fit the feelings that i get when i have read your thread.

[PacLove]

My 2 cents - I'd have a tough time trusting your W on anything she says about her R with OM as long as it's going on. I've heard all sorts of excuses over the last year from "just a friend" to he "begged me to come over".

Gaslighting I believe is the common term for this - saying what you want to hear to make you feel better about the situation.

Be very cautions - I too want to be there for support for my W she is very much in a confused state right now and is treating me like a good friend. We don't talk about he R or the A at all right now as I know that will only stir things up.