W still at home, how to proceed?

[ImAwake]

Well that was short lived. W went cold again. I was disappointed so I backed off without being cold, but she had a huge reaction to something other small thing and proceeded to go off the deep end. She kept trying to get a reaction out of me by making comments about me and our relationship then leaving the room and not letting me respond. Then she said I was ignoring her which gave her more fuel to do more of the same. I told her if she wanted to talk then she should come talk, not come in and say something in anger and leave. She said I should be coming to her to talk when she does this. She says I'm being hot/cold when she is the one doing it. She says she knew I was full of it when I said she could come talk to me anytime and I'll listen...but she didn't come to me to talk, she had a tantrum. Very frustrating, but I kept it cool.
I guess deep down I felt like this would go a little smoother than usual after that talk. Now she's threatening to move my stuff out of our bedroom while I'm at work and taking the bedroom for herself. I just said no, this is my bedroom. At this point I don't know what she is capable of, so I'm not sure how I'm going to handle it if she actually does this. I'll need to prepare myself before I get home.

[Ralph88]

This is s crucial time. Be patient, avoid being drawn in and avoid letting your emotions get the best of you and avoid getting angry. You and going to be wrong in her eyes no matter what, you are the enemy no matter what. Accept this and listen, listen, listen. Validate when you can, remember validating is acknowledging her feeling, not whether they are true or not. Be careful apologizing as is can reinforce her felling that you are to blame. Be the lighthouse. Read, read, ask questions here, read again. Do not let her ups or downs cause your ups and downs. I could tell my your post, that is the case, because you said "that was short lived". This is not going to be over quickly!!! Patience.

[ImAwake]

Thank you for that Ralph88. I do need to rethink how I look at things. I'm not riding with her emotional roller coaster like I used to, but I still need to accept my situation more fully.

[sandi2]

Welcome aboard. I hope you will stick with us and post often.

I have several questions, and I really hope you will answer them. It will give me a clearer picture.

My wife has always been extremely insecure about me straying and in the beginning of our relationship I have here good cause with flirty behavior and porn addiction.

Could you say this another way? I'm not sure I understand the last part of the sentence.

Have you given your W reason to feel she has an insecure relationship?

She has had enough and told me the first time a year ago that she wanted to separate

How many times has she told you she wanted to separate? When you say she's had enough.............enough of what?

Since then it has been a horrible cycle of me trying my best to be her "perfect husband", her pushing me away, me getting frustrated at her not accepting these positive changes and getting drunk...repeating mistakes, and rounding it out with her pushing me away even further.

Funny thing, I don't know that I have ever read a man's idea of the "perfect husband" matching the woman's idea of one. What exactly were you doing at the time she would push you away?

When I stopped drinking for the past month, this seemed to make her even more angry and distant, and she has left out marital bed just a week ago.

Did she actually say that she wanted you drunk, or is this your interpretation of something else she said?

I have backed off, stopped texting, stopped affection, stopped catering to her every grip, and stopped saying I love you and being sweet in general. This definitely got some negative attention from her

I'm sure it did!

Up until she had said she wanted to separate, I wasn't really a present husband.

How many times had she said it before you became a present H?

What are the ages of you and W, and how long together? What are the kids ages?

The more you can tell us about the marital history, the more help I think you will receive.

Last couple of questions. Have either of you ever been in an inappropriate relationship since getting married? Either of you been previously married?

Hope to hear from you soon.

[ImAwake]

All the quotes are a little tricky on the phone...I answered each one below.

Welcome aboard. I hope you will stick with us and post often.

I have several questions, and I really hope you will answer them. It will give me a clearer picture.

My wife has always been extremely insecure about me straying and in the beginning of our relationship I have here good cause with flirty behavior and porn addiction.

Could you say this another way? I'm not sure I understand the last part of the sentence.

Have you given your W reason to feel she has an insecure relationship?

Yes I have. From flirty behavior with other women, to porn addiction which hurt her deeply, to more recent provocative dancing and getting touchy-feely with female friends while drunk.
She has had enough and told me the first time a year ago that she wanted to separate

How many times has she told you she wanted to separate?
When you say she's had enough.............enough of what?

Many times since then. But before that, not once. It was a huge shock to me at the time.

Since then it has been a horrible cycle of me trying my best to be her "perfect husband", her pushing me away, me getting frustrated at her not accepting these positive changes and getting drunk...repeating mistakes, and rounding it out with her pushing me away even further.

Funny thing, I don't know that I have ever read a man's idea of the "perfect husband" matching the woman's idea of one. What exactly were you doing at the time she would push you away?

Trying to be loving physically. Giving her back rubs. Helping around the house a lot. A lot of the things she said she wanted. But she was extremely cold to me and I would get upset. That frustration would come out when we would drink too much on the weekends. We would get in fights over things I would do, like talking/flirting with other women at the bars.
[/quote]When I stopped drinking for the past month, this seemed to make her even more angry and distant, and she has left out marital bed just a week ago.

Did she actually say that she wanted you drunk, or is this your interpretation of something else she said?

She said I was being too extreme. She said she wanted to be able to drink a drink with her husband. That this was not the kind of relationship she wanted.

I have backed off, stopped texting, stopped affection, stopped catering to her every grip, and stopped saying I love you and being sweet in general. This definitely got some negative attention from her

I'm sure it did!

Up until she had said she wanted to separate, I wasn't really a present husband.

How many times had she said it before you became a present H?

None. She told me the first time, I went through horrible depression and anger, then I woke up and started moving in a more positive direction in my life.

What are the ages of you and W, and how long together? What are the kids ages?

I'm 37, W 33, together for 15 years . kids 13, 8, 5
The more you can tell us about the marital history, the more help I think you will receive.
I can see that both of us were too young and emotionally immature to be married. Our communication skills are horrible, and most of our R we avoided problems instead of dealing. She would try to talk to me back then, but I would get defensive instead of listening. She has always been insecure about me not needing or wanting her because of porn and masterbation. Even when I was doing well with avoiding porn, she would accuse and suspect me, which made me feel guilty...which triggered the addiction. Another ugly cycle.

Last couple of questions. Have either of you ever been in an inappropriate relationship since getting married? Either of you been previously married?

No previous marriages. We were both involved with inappropriate sensual/sexual behavior with another couple. Not a relationship, but a couple of incidents. That for me was a turning point. That is when a lot of my anger started, even though I was involved too.

Hope to hear from you soon.

[ImAwake]

I don't see an edit button, so I cut and pasted:

Welcome aboard. I hope you will stick with us and post often.

I have several questions, and I really hope you will answer them. It will give me a clearer picture.

Quote:
My wife has always been extremely insecure about me straying and in the beginning of our relationship I have here good cause with flirty behavior and porn addiction.
Could you say this another way? I'm not sure I understand the last part of the sentence
Have you given your W reason to feel she has an insecure relationship?
-- yes I was addicted to porn and would sometimes flirt with other women. We were always unstable from the beginning.

Quote:
She has had enough and told me the first time a year ago that she wanted to separate


How many times has she told you she wanted to separate? When you say she's had enough.............enough of what?
-- Many times after that, but none before that. It came as a shock at the time. She is tired of me getting flirty with other women, using harsh words, talking bad about her, just being disrespectful in general while drunk. This is why I stopped drinking. All of this bad behavior lately has been when I am drunk and out of control.

Quote:
Since then it has been a horrible cycle of me trying my best to be her "perfect husband", her pushing me away, me getting frustrated at her not accepting these positive changes and getting drunk...repeating mistakes, and rounding it out with her pushing me away even further.

Funny thing, I don't know that I have ever read a man's idea of the "perfect husband" matching the woman's idea of one. What exactly were you doing at the time she would push you away?
-- I would be loving physically, hugs and back rubs and holding her at night. Doing lots around the house to help out. Spending more time with her. All the things she said she wanted in an R. But then you add the drunken weekends and you get a very confused W. She would be very cold and tell me it was too much affection for her.

Quote:
When I stopped drinking for the past month, this seemed to make her even more angry and distant, and she has left out marital bed just a week ago.

Did she actually say that she wanted you drunk, or is this your interpretation of something else she said?
-- She said I was being too extreme. She said she want to be able to drink with her husband. She would try to embarrass me in front of our friends by making comments about me not drinking. Almost calling me weak...like peer pressure.

Quote:
I have backed off, stopped texting, stopped affection, stopped catering to her every grip, and stopped saying I love you and being sweet in general. This definitely got some negative attention from her


I'm sure it did!

Quote:
Up until she had said she wanted to separate, I wasn't really a present husband.

How many times had she said it before you became a present H?

-- after the first time she said it I went into a deep depression. When I woke up and decided to make my life better, I was making positive changes in the way I treated her while sober. But I was a jerk when drunk.
What are the ages of you and W, and how long together? What are the kids ages?

--I'm 37, W 33, 15 years married, kids are 13,8,5
The more you can tell us about the marital history, the more help I think you will receive.

--We were not emotionally mature enough to get married when we did. Neither of us really had a good idea about how Rs should be. We fought constantly in the beginning then we just kind of avoided fights instead of dealing. She would try to talk to me but I would get defensive and avoid her.

Last couple of questions. Have either of you ever been in an inappropriate relationship since getting married? Either of you been previously married?
--No previous marriages.
We both were involved with inappropriate sensual/sexual behavior with another couple. That was a turning point for me. I was very depressed but more angry that had happened. This was a few years ago.

[sandi2]

Thank you for answering my questions.

For now, and without more information, I would say you went to extremes in both directions. When you were trying to be the perfect H, you come on to fast & heavy. I'm guessing she felt smothered. Then you got frustrated and cut everything out. So, I could see why she might have a difficult time adjusting.

The part about her wanting to drink with her H and embarrassing you in front of others.......well, someone else will have to help you there. Does she only drink "socially", or does she drink at home, too? Maybe she is angry b/c it puts more light on her own drinking issues when you aren't playing the role of the drunk.

Besides her saying she wants to separate, have you noticed any strange behavior in your wife? Something that would cause you to wonder if she was communicating privately with another man? I am not trying to plant bad things into your brain, just trying to get down to meat.

Does she seem to find something to fight about? Does she guard her phone and does it stick to her like glue? Is she on the computer excessively? Is she gone for long period of unexplained time? Don't accuse or confront her. Maybe she has always done these things and you were not present to notice.

What are some ways she shows disrespect toward you?

Have either of you ever received counseling?

[ImAwake]

She mostly drinks socially, but rarely gets drunk.
I've noticed her very attached to her phone months ago, but she no longer does this. She's constantly telling me what I am doing wrong, or things that lend to her wanting to get separated. Constant judgment and head shaking and exasperation about small thing that I do that annoy her. She's not on the computer much. On the phone constantly, but she mostly texts her friends about their drama. I guess if she was sneaky enough it could be someone else, I'm gone during the day so she might be gone for long periods without me knowing. When I get home she usually is there too.
She used to call me names a lot, but I told her that needs to stop. Just recently she took my phone and checked it after I told her not to. She thinks I am seeing someone else. She tries to put me down in subtle ways in front of other people. Just enough to be able to explain it away if she had to.
Neither of us have received counseling. I told her that maybe she should go to work through her issues, but she doesn't want to. I have read some inspiring books and articles about life in general and have come a long way with meditation and reflection. I have tools now that I use to manage my anger and depression.

[ImAwake]

Some days I think being separate would make DBing a lot easier. But maybe that's just me wanting to avoid issues like we have for years. It's not an easy thing to love someone and at the same time not enjoy their company. I suppose she's going through the same feelings but more intensified.

[ImAwake]

W keeps testing to see if she can get me out of the MBR. Not as demanding this time but she asked which bedroom I wanted. I told her I'm staying in my bedroom, and she has also started to refer to it as mine which is interesting. We had a good talk last night, she came to me. We both have each other room and time to make out points, although I had to remind her once to let me finish. It's still sent a lot better than any other R talk we've had recently. She still wants to separate, but she seems to be softening somehow. I did pretty well validating and made it clear that I respect her opinions even when I don't agree. I'm doing another 180 with marijuana use, since this is a huge trigger for her. The talk ended well so we will see how today goes. Typically after we have a good time together or a good talk, for the next day or two she likes to test my patience. I am getting much better at preparing for this.