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Just cos things are going right, doesn't mean that they were always wrong.
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This was my last post...

So, my WW said the other day that I am free to always check her phone as she has nothing to hide. So I check it. Yes, drumroll pls...

She tells her BFF that she misses OMs voice, and it's been 3 days since any contact. She says that she's feeling bad cos all she's trying to do is get him to come f-ck her and he doesn't want to bite.

So, here I am. A juncture in my life. Either I choose me and sanity, or I choose my very WW. There's only one choice I'm going to make.

I feel relieved. No more pussy-footing around the subject. I must detach and I will. I will need all of your help to get me through. I don't have too much anxiety. Maybe because there is no more hope.


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Where in Europe R u from DDJ?

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I'm not surprised by what you found on her phone. This is why I've been advising you to focus on yourself and not worry about what she's doing.

No one says you can't choose yourself and your wife. Both of those choices require you to do the things we've been posting about. So regardless of what you decide to do for yourself, my advice is the same.

Detach from wife (lose control).
Improve yourself (gym, diet, self-esteem, hobbies, relationships, etc).
GAL (keep busy and focused on you).

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I'm in South Africa, Vapo, Cape Town.

I understand that dream, i'm not going to change anything that i'm doing, besides getting everything in place for the D.

This is her unsolicited email to me this morning:
"I can’t even imagine the hurt and betrayal you must be feeling right now or after you read my messages. You are a good man and don’t deserve THIS, no matter what your part is in us not working, I know that I have crossed a line that we will probably never recover from but I WILL make it better.
I PROMISE"

I never responded.

I spent the entire day with my S4 yesterday and I really enjoyed myself. Out of all convo's started between my WW and I, i think i started 2 out of 15, and got drawn into 2 of 8 arguments. So my next post will contain such measurable objectives.


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Just focus on your son, be the best dad possible (I also have a S4) they only get to be 4 for the shortest time and missing it would be great loss. With that said you also do not want to be a dick as far as your W goes, but you come first, then your son and then everything else...

Stay strong buddy...

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Yes, i'm going to be strong and focused Vapo.

My WW has now called her employee support line and is most likely going to go for counselling. I hope she makes the most of it, for her own sake.


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What do you think of these... any input is appreciated:

Detach (from WW and lose control)
• Do not start 100% of all conversations
• Do not get drawn into 100% of all possible arguments
• Do not check Tracker when my WW is out
• Keep my phone off when my WW is out
• Consciously remove control over others when I interact with them
• Do not react to anything anyone says or does, pause and then consider my response

Improve myself (GAL)
• I need to go to gym at least 3 to 4 days a week. My gym bag must remain in the car so that I can simply state that “I’m going out”.
• I need to stop eating junk-food, and actually start eating. I need to keep healthy snacks to boost my nutrition.
• I need to get out every day that I can, even if it’s a drive to sit somewhere and soak up nature. I need to try and see more live sports and spend time with my long lost family and friends.

Understand boundaries and implement some
• I think that I’m starting to get what boundaries are. The big emotional one will be no intimacy with my WW. The longer I can keep her off me, the stronger I will get. I will know that I will have achieved it if the day to sign the D papers come and I’ve still not given off.

Appreciate the little things

• I think that here I need to affirm my WW whenever she does anything that is not selfish, and is her going out of her way for me, or our son. Perhaps hitting 100% of affirmations, and understanding where I did not.


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DDJ, I don't know if you have read it but I have been reading the thread 'Quotes found on Divorce busting'. I have found some of these extremely useful. I can't remember how I got to it but there are so many great snipets of information. Maybe Cadet can remind me how to get there.

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Si_07, I think that i'm past DBing to get my M back. I'm going to DB just to get myself back. That's really what its all about isn't it.


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It is exactly and there are great quotes in these threads from people Sandi has mentioned. Coach, Robx, puppy dog tails. For me, in my thread we ask questions, we look for support, how to move forward for ourselves. I found many answers to my questions in this thread

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2039619&page=24

I have felt more at peace these last few days than I have in a long time. It is about getting ourselves back, my IC told me that I was on a path to breakdown last year. In some ways what my WW has done, saved me from continuing down that path. Do I agree with her actions, not at all, and she has hurt me heavily over the past year or so. I have come to the acceptance that my M is dead, is there a new one later, I don't know but what I do know is that with the work I'm doing, ironing out the wrinkles, someone will get a great guy.

My WAW chose friends over family and a loser over me in a time I needed support, I deserve someone that is prepared to stand up and be counted as much as they expect me to be with them. I have realized that my W is emotionally immature, always has been. The few times I have needed to lean, she has ran. I want someone stronger than that, someone that takes ownership of their failings without blaming me. Someone that wants to be with me no matter what difficulties life throws at us. Do I see my W becoming that, actually no I don't. My W has regularly talked the talk but rarely walked the walk.

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I think that we could all copy/paste what you're saying about our lives and those of the WS/WASs. Mine does not stand a change with her current support system.

This is a wake up call, better now than never. It hurts like hell, but at least we're not in hell with them.

In a year or two, we will look back and hopefully be able to see how it all fit together to get us where we're going.


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I need quick feedback here... Email from WW:

"I am sincerely sorry for all the hurt I put you thru D, I really hope one day you will believe that and trust in the fact that I really did and still love you, yes my love have changed and maybe I am to blame for allowing a third party into our marriage and not being strong enough to fight for my family in keeping it together.

Still cant believe this is the end of the road for us. I feel sad thinking about it.".

I'm thinking of replying...

I understand that you are sorry, I would be sorry if I had done the same thing to you. You are to blame for bringing a third party into our marriage. All that you had to was reach out. Now it is too late.

Marriage is about never giving up and we both gave up. It's now time to go our separate ways.

All good things, and bad things have to come to an end.

Last edited by Cadet; 05/03/16 04:49 AM. Reason: edit name

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I think no response might be better (but I haven't read your whole thread to judge).

What does this response accomplish? Seems like not much...

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well, i'm driving forward with the D, and she's having second thoughts. I need to state that D is the only answer, it really is for me now. But i sense remorse, and want to validate her.

I do think that no response would actually be best.


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I do not see that as a very validating response. Maybe it could be re-worded. I'd have to think about it.

Maybe some others could chime in.

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Originally Posted By: DDJ

I understand that you are sorry, I would be sorry if I had done the same thing to you. This makes it seem like her choice was about hurting you. It wasnt. It was her being selfish. Your pain is a side effect. Dont make this about you.

You are to blame for bringing a third party into our marriage. Oh. Wow. Dont say this. Throwing blame and guilt and shame around isnt a great idea to do anything but hurt her.

All that you had to was reach out. Now it is too late. So this is all on her then? Wheres your share?

Marriage is about never giving up and we both gave up. It's now time to go our separate ways. All good things, and bad things have to come to an end. ...lecturing...


No. Dont send this.

Why do you think you need to respond?

Did she ask you anything?

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Originally Posted By: DDJ
I need to state that D is the only answer, it really is for me now.


We've been down this road before.

Fine. Finish the divorce and get on with it.

You will still have to face the same issues on the other side. Being divorced wont take away any of the pain.

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Detach (from WW and lose control)
• Do not start 100% of all conversations - What do you mean "do not start 100%"? Dont start ANY?
• Do not get drawn into 100% of all possible arguments - Arguments arent inherently bad. What is bad is spiraling and getting off message. It's OK to disagree. Its in HOW you disagree that is critical to maintaining a healthy R.
• Do not check Tracker when my WW is out
• Keep my phone off when my WW is out
• Consciously remove control over others when I interact with them - - How will you measure this?
• Do not react to anything anyone says or does, pause and then consider my response

Improve myself (GAL)
• I need to go to gym at least 3 to 4 days a week. My gym bag must remain in the car so that I can simply state that “I’m going out”.
• I need to stop eating junk-food, and actually start eating. I need to keep healthy snacks to boost my nutrition. - Good. Do you have a clear target for acceptable/unacceptable?
• I need to get out every day that I can, even if it’s a drive to sit somewhere and soak up nature. I need to try and see more live sports and spend time with my long lost family and friends. - Be more specific. Is "getting out" include walking to the mailbox? Add a quantity of time. Also, dont say "try" in a goal. Its a goal...it's OK if you dont hit it. What do you want? twice a month? weekly?

Understand boundaries and implement some
• I think that I’m starting to get what boundaries are. The big emotional one will be no intimacy with my WW. The longer I can keep her off me, the stronger I will get. I will know that I will have achieved it if the day to sign the D papers come and I’ve still not given off. - Define intimacy. Hug? Kiss? R talk? Sex?

Appreciate the little things

• I think that here I need to affirm my WW whenever she does anything that is not selfish, and is her going out of her way for me, or our son. Perhaps hitting 100% of affirmations, and understanding where I did not. - So you want to appreciate "the little things" or appreciate "her"?
[/quote]

One thing that strikes me as odd is that you dont have any goals about your relationship with your son. How do you feel that relationship is?

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ok, i'm not going to respond to her email. anything i say can be misinterpreted. I guess that the lesson is knowing when to say nothing at all?

All that you had to was reach out. Now it is too late. So this is all on her then? Wheres your share? I know what my share is and that's what i'm fixing, I almost acted on my waywardness, she believes that that was the tipping point to opening the door for her, well that's what she says.


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Originally Posted By: DDJ
I guess that the lesson is knowing when to say nothing at all?


Ahhh the REAL 180.

YES! Good Job!


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Detach (from WW and lose control)
• Do not start 100% of all conversations - What do you mean "do not start 100%"? Dont start ANY? I sometimes can't help myself, but know that the aim is to not start any.
• Do not get drawn into 100% of all possible arguments - Arguments arent inherently bad. What is bad is spiraling and getting off message. It's OK to disagree. Its in HOW you disagree that is critical to maintaining a healthy R. I over analyse everything which just makes things worse. I am calm but come accross as over critical.
• Do not check Tracker when my WW is out
• Keep my phone off when my WW is out
• Consciously remove control over others when I interact with them - - How will you measure this? I guess that i need to evaluate afterwards if the decision was theirs, or mine, not sure how?
• Do not react to anything anyone says or does, pause and then consider my response

Improve myself (GAL)
• I need to go to gym at least 3 to 4 days a week. My gym bag must remain in the car so that I can simply state that “I’m going out”.
• I need to stop eating junk-food, and actually start eating. I need to keep healthy snacks to boost my nutrition. - Good. Do you have a clear target for acceptable/unacceptable? Yes, absolutely no junk food, if such, then a healthy alternative. Did well until BD2, so can do it. Used to have fast food probably twice a month.
• I need to get out every day that I can, even if it’s a drive to sit somewhere and soak up nature. I need to try and see more live sports and spend time with my long lost family and friends. - Be more specific. Is "getting out" include walking to the mailbox? Add a quantity of time. Also, dont say "try" in a goal. Its a goal...it's OK if you dont hit it. What do you want? twice a month? weekly? I want to do something different every wknd, a movie by myself, a walk outdoors, a hike, a visit to the beach. At least one thing differently each wknd.
Oh, must add two more - no drinking of alcohol and no porn, period.

Understand boundaries and implement some
• I think that I’m starting to get what boundaries are. The big emotional one will be no intimacy with my WW. The longer I can keep her off me, the stronger I will get. I will know that I will have achieved it if the day to sign the D papers come and I’ve still not given off. - Define intimacy. Hug? Kiss? R talk? Sex? Intimacy is all of the above, i am too invested in my WW to be able to tell the difference between when she's temp checking or cake eating.

Appreciate the little things

• I think that here I need to affirm my WW whenever she does anything that is not selfish, and is her going out of her way for me, or our son. Perhaps hitting 100% of affirmations, and understanding where I did not. - So you want to appreciate "the little things" or appreciate "her"?
[/quote] I guess that I want to appreciate her, well not her specifically, but the person for my next R, if anyone at all.

One thing that strikes me as odd is that you dont have any goals about your relationship with your son. How do you feel that relationship is?
I think that the R with my son is great, better than its ever been. If i focus on myself and include him whenever and wherever I can then the R can only get stronger. But ultimately, my goal is to have him to be disciplined and listen to me first time, without him fearing me. Right now he toys with me, waiting for me to do something before he listens.


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Originally Posted By: darknes
Originally Posted By: DDJ
I need to state that D is the only answer, it really is for me now.


We've been down this road before.

Fine. Finish the divorce and get on with it.

You will still have to face the same issues on the other side. Being divorced wont take away any of the pain.


I know that we've been over this, I also know that it won't take away any of the pain. Will not getting a D take away the pain? Not being sarcastic...


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I agree that there is no need to reply to her email. It's words in a message. It doesn't mean anything. Her actions are loud and clear.

I think your goals are a good start. The more you tweak them into measurable things, the better they will be. One concern I have is that you plan to turn your phone off whenever WW is out. I don't think that's smart in the sense of safety. And what if you want to call/text a friend while she is out? A better option would be to turn her ring tone to silent and build resistance to checking your phone while she is out. When I was struggling with this, I would force myself to not look at my phone for a certain amount of time. Maybe 10 minutes for example. And I would increase that number over time. Eventually, I broke the habit.

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"I guess that I want to appreciate her, well not her specifically, but the person for my next R, if anyone at all."

Maybe you could change this to appreciate your son? I'm not saying you don't appreciate him, but why not practice the skills on him? Or you could work on showing appreciation for others in general. Tell someone thank you, compliment them, let them know you're grateful for whatever thing they did. Start with X times/people a day and work your way up? Just a suggestion!

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No, only time takes away the pain (or maybe you just learn to live with it.

I'm getting a strong sense you are trying to provoke a response from her and that pretty much everything you do/say is to get a response from her. And I think if you honestly look at it you will see the same.

Just take it easy buddy...

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@dream, okay, that is a long list. will keep on my PC and go over it everyday, weekly. I've never been one to compliment people, I always believed that people should always do their best. Funny thing is that i need compliments/appreciation to motivate me too... Something I was never good at when I was a team leader.
I'll look into the phone thing, as I guess I can't totally ignore her, although there is a home line which she can call which will wake me up.

@Vapo, I've always judged people, and my W, i guess the OM does not do that at all. I need to stop because it is not something that i want to do. Always thought of myself as humble, now i'm eating pie.

As for her email, I re-read it over and over again and it made me sad - now i realise that it's her feelings (sincere or insincere) that's how she feels. If i were to respond it will need to be how i feel. Something along the lines of "I know that you do love me and I can imagine how sad this can make you feel". ... My anxiety is gone. for now - lol


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Originally Posted By: Cadet
Originally Posted By: DDJ
I guess that the lesson is knowing when to say nothing at all?


Ahhh the REAL 180.

YES! Good Job!


Also....when to do nothing.

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one last thing, in terms of action, my WW has thrown her (lady) pills in the bin.


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Originally Posted By: DDJ
Originally Posted By: darknes
Originally Posted By: DDJ
I need to state that D is the only answer, it really is for me now.


We've been down this road before.

Fine. Finish the divorce and get on with it.

You will still have to face the same issues on the other side. Being divorced wont take away any of the pain.


I know that we've been over this, I also know that it won't take away any of the pain. Will not getting a D take away the pain? Not being sarcastic...


No. Remaining married wont inherently take away the pain either.

I can see lots of benefits to remaining married. I am trying to understand the benefit you see in getting divorced.

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Originally Posted By: dream
The more you tweak them into measurable things, the better they will be.


YES.

The smaller and more measurable, the better.

Remember, they arent all long term things. You can reevaluate, add, remove any of them when you wish.

Maybe you say "no treats after 7 PM for 2 weeks". Then, after you achieve that goal, you change to "one special treat after 7 PM per week." Or whatever.

The more specific and more measurable you make the goals, the more you will be able to meet them.

Saying things like "try to do ABC" is a waste. Because what does that mean? Does thinking about it count? Does sending a text saying "we should get together sometime" count?

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[/quote]

No. Remaining married wont inherently take away the pain either.

I can see lots of benefits to remaining married. I am trying to understand the benefit you see in getting divorced. [/quote]

I don't actually think that there are any benefits, besides not having a cheating W. So i guess there is a benefit.


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DDJ,

Yes, I think DBing is mostly about the LBS. Hang in there, it'll get better.

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I think your son might disagree.

Why were you married in the first place, if you see no benefits to it?


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I married because I loved her, I saw the rest of my life with her; I had a son to show my love for her too. But that was someone else, isn't it? No it's not.

I guess it's a feeling of helplessness, doing nothing; I guess that going through with it would just be reacting to her saying that she wants one too. She does say "i know that i asked for a D, but i'm not the one that filed".


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My WW wife said the same thing. She said she didn't know what she wanted, but she didn't want the D right now.


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Doing nothing can also be viewed as being in control of yourself, depending on when it is that you choose to not react. Like not responding to her weak email.

She is choosing to feel sad about your marriage ending instead of choosing to DO something about it with the hopes of working things out. She has no remorse.

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Dream is right.. My WW after a very powerful church Sunday, 6 hrs later sent me "it's days like today that make me wonder if we are doing the right thing". I only responded with is this something you want talk about? Anyways she said 'we ', but knows that I'm willing to put forth whatever effort to make a try. I'm staying away from her drama as much as I can, that's not my drama.


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I'd say We? Honey, it's your divorce and your decision...

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so, i never achieved a few of my objectives yesterday, not starting convo was almost 0%. But what did happen was another breakthrough (and we know what happened with the last one) so i'm not going to read anything into it, except that I am more at peace now.

We discussed every incident that my WW held against me and myself against her, from 10 years, 8 years, 7 years, 6 years, and recent happenings. We sort of debunked each one. For example, she always brought up that I lied to her when i bought rugby tickets for my bro and friend and not for her (7 years ago). Before i could tell her that i never bought her a ticket, she found out. That was a brick in the wall that got us here. I told her that I just wanted to watch a game with the boys, but did not know how to tell her. I needed that for me, not to hurt her.

I also recalled going to clubs, i'd point out the pretty girls, she'd even point them out for me. How does that build trust. Imagine i meet someone new, that would not be accepted. We flirted with the idea of a 3some, and on 2 occasions she chatted up a chick and brought her my way, but it never felt right so i just brushed the idea off. The amount of waywardness in our R was seriously insane. How did I not see it???

In each case, we either attributed the resentment to either party being selfish, or both. She opened up so nicely. She even stated that she does not know how she is going to tell our S4 the reason why she wanted out, why she broke up her family. But we know that actions speak louder than words and as I put him to sleep...

She was on the laptop looking for a flat, poured herself one drink to help with her anxiety (she's not getting too much sleep) and I had to fight her off me again, i'm going to lay a charge of molestation if this continues. Then she couldn't get her way and whipped out the vibrator. I left the room at that time. What a temp check!! What an opportunity to detach!!


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The DR book is being delivered today!!!!

My WW is pursuing me real bad, called now to see how i'm doing and saying that if i want to talk, that I can talk to her - i said "I know, thank you". I've gotta keep my distance, I know that too.


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ok, lightbulb moment - i know where my WWs anxiety comes from. I cheated on my first girlfriend. It just hit me and it's all coming back to me now, that i said - ILYBINILWY. OMG!!!! That was 13 years ago, she pursued and pursued. i loved the rush of two girls, the secrecy, the lies. I had no "care" for my ex, I was blinded by lust to this other person. I never reconciled with my ex, and even attempted to have a R with the OW, but karma kicked me in the butt, as she was more wayward than i was. OMG!


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Tell us more. Maybe it will help us..


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ok, so I was attracted to two girls, one very feminine and the other masculine. The feminine one had a boyfriend so i didn't want to go there, but was soooo attracted. Anyhows, i start hanging out with the other one. One thing leads to the next and we're boyfriend and girlfriend. Then almost a year later to the day, I am alone with the OW, I act upon it, no intercourse though.

I deny this attraction to myself knowing that I must be faithful to my GF. But as fate would have it, she moves about 2 mins drive from my house, where my GF was 20 mins. I started hanging out more at OW place and then it started. The OW was sexually abused as a child, I wanted to fix her.

My GF and her were so so friends, even though my GF was clearly aware of an attraction. So we go party about 9 months from first interaction at the OWs place one day, a few days after i first had sex with the OW. My GF asks me "do you still love me?" I said that I do, but i'm not in love with you.

I realise now that I was cake-eating with my GF, whilst also having fun with the OW. I was so attached to my GF that I only let her go 4 years later - when i met my WW!!! And now i'm attached to her, and she is likewise attached to me too.

I can't believe that everything is so clear now. I was 20 at the time, mother gave me good morals. But i never listened. I had even lost my virginity to a married muslim lady! If i wasnt sitting down i'd probably fall over right now.


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DDJ.

It sounds like you've had some good introspection and insight. I hope it helps lead to a good resolution in your current situation.

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Yes doodler, i think it is definitely going to help, bring the focus onto me and what i need to fix.

when my W and i first started going out, we were friends with benefits. She was friendly with another guy and told me that either i make her my GF or she's gonna go out with him - she wanted stability. I said yes, but i never stopped wondering and wandering. As early as last year December, i was still wandering.

If i think of the girls that i was attracted to over these 10 years, none of them reciprocated because they had boyfriends, and were not wandering. But if one of them were wandering then i have no doubt that my WW would have been on this forum right now.

I definitely need to fix myself, I can't believe that i've been lost for so long! My WW is not my priority.

A question for Sandi, if she's reading - Does my wandering change the dynamic? I don't think so...


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So I've realised that I've been wayward since 2000. That's 16 years of fog!

Am currently apologising to my XGF. I feel I needed to. I alluded to it a few weeks ago but I think I need it to heal. I can't show my WW this vulnerability, can I?

Who'd have thunk, a WW with a WH. Is this somewhere in the book. Lol


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DDJ,

You're an awesome dude! I'm giving you a manly hug. laugh

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I need it doodler, I'm crying now, not for my WW or my marriage anymore,but for me. It's insane.


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DDJ,

I'm sorry it's been rough for you. Hang in there.

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Originally Posted By: DDJ
Does my wandering change the dynamic? I don't think so...

NO it does not.

Use basic DB'ing skills,
a beginners mind would come to mind first.

And concentrate on the person you can control - YOU.

Maybe look into something like AA,
12 step program.

If you dont FIX yourself then you will continue to repeat over and over again.


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I'm glad to see you're looking at yourself and seeing how you've contributed to your marriage. I know it's not easy or fun to do. I don't think you've been "in the fog" for 16 years, but that you've had poor boundaries (pointing out pretty girls, talking about 3-somes, etc). Now that you've brought this to your attention, what are you going to do with this information to make yourself a better partner?

I don't think you should tell your wife about this until you're in the reconciliation phase. She hasn't shown any actions or changes on her end. Regardless of what happens with you 2, you have already improved yourself by looking at your faults and now hopefully working to strengthen your boundaries for the future.

Keep tweaking your goals. Stay focused.

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DDJ, awesome job with the introspection. Now that you know what was wrong, you can start trying to make it right. Stay strong brother.


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Originally Posted By: Melo
Now that you know what was wrong


Id say now you are starting to get somewhere.

How can you use this information to add to your goals?

How can you dig deeper to find the root of your issues?

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@cadet - I feel no anxiety at all towards my WW or my marriage anymore. I am only going to focus on myself. I must disregard everything else. i need to find myself and create those boundaries that dream speaks about. I never knew what boundaries really were until i got those 10 letters myself. Will look into the 12 step program and see how i can apply it to my goals too.

@dream - I probably was not in the fog for that long, but certainly was until the day i told the OW to choose me or her current BF. That was 4 years. As for the changes in my WW, she was looking at our wedding photos yesterday, sent another email today to say she wants to make it work. There is no tension between us at all, but i need to clear my head still so want to be by myself indefinitely. For me to realise what we have is real, I need to miss her too...

@darknes, serious, i've gone soooo deeeep. You want me to go deeper. Not sure that I can but I will, just cos you asked. As for adding to my goals, i think it improves focus and motivation. I know exactly what the future me will look like. Nothing like the previous me.

thx doodler and melo for the support too.

You are all helping me to save my life.


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Originally Posted By: DDJ
@darknes, serious, i've gone soooo deeeep. You want me to go deeper. Not sure that I can but I will, just cos you asked.


I think you understand the "what" behind what youve done. Now it's time to understand "why"! Then, you can figure out how to approach changing.

Originally Posted By: DDJ
As for adding to my goals, i think it improves focus and motivation. I know exactly what the future me will look like. Nothing like the previous me.


I recommend that you write them out. Doesnt have to be here. But write out exactly what you want. Then it's easy to hold yourself accountable to it.

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@darknes, I think that I understand the why, but definitely need to state it to take it in. What I want for the future me is to achieve those goals on a daily basis. I'd be able to be a lighthouse for my family, finally.

Well enuf about me. My W appears back for good. Not getting excited. As I said the other day, she threw away her (lady) pills. Last night she came home and her phone batt was flat. She left it off, and only charged it now this morning. she wants to kiss and hug me; her love language is touch so I give her hugs but tell her it's too early for a kiss.

She no longer speaks of D and says that the person that sent that "F me" text on Monday and the person on Wed are two different people. Im not sure if we reconciled the other day when we discussed all the resentment over the years and squashed each one, paving the way to a future without regret.

Again, not getting too excited because actions speak loudest. This wknd will be a litmus test. I plan on leaving her at home for mothers day and getting her nothing still. I need to see if she is going to rebel. Most likely she will. Her birthday is next week so not sure what to do there tho...


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Just got off the phone with my XGF, explained that it was not her, it was all me. I cried a little bit for the hurt that she had to endure, guess i was sooo attached. It helps for me to let that go, I definitely needed that.

Now to pull my head out of my arse and GAL!


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So WW just called me, so much doubt in her mind about making us work. I cannot control how she feels though, so changed the subject. She asked why i'm holding on to the M, is it for our S?

I said that i'm definitely not trying to stay together, or trying to stay together for our S. I'm not doing this for her, our S or our M. I am trying to fix myself, for myself. I am going to be a better father and if we're still somehow married at the end of this, then so be it.

How did i fare?


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I'm feeling less anxiety, like i can't "really change her mind" is sinking in. She needs to change her own mind and see if she wants to really make it work. It can't work until she really wants it to. I fear that that is not going to be anytime soon. I am willing to face my fears.


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"I am done, I can’t do us anymore, I really can’t, this was the last today. I WANT A DIVORCE."

MY REPLY

ok. i understand that you still feel that way and are emotional. Again this is not what i want.

I am not saying that I want to be married to you. But I do not want a divorce now.

That is all i'm going to say for now. I will listen more to you later tonight, if you want to talk.


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Just quickly swinging by to say hi.
I'm afraid I don't have any great advise but just want to show my support to you. It looks like it's been a rough few days and you have made a lot of discoveries in these days.

The way you are really taking control and fixing your own issues is very inspiring, well done to you.

I would say, the way your ww keeps tuning in and out makes me think and is not what she wants at all. She is very confused and possibly trying to provoke some kind of reaction out of you. Stay strong my friend. You are doing great


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thx Cherry. Yeah, its been a few days of "life" really. Ups and downs, at least my appetite is back and i'm sleeping well - so well that i don't want to wake up. LOL

She is as confused as she's actually ever been. But i stepped off her rollercoaster a few days ago. Just came from the shops, bought me some healthy food and soups for meals for the next few days. Finally joining gym and am sooo looking forward to leaving her at home with my S on mothers day. You're not going to enjoy the day either, but think about us LBHs who are at least taking a stand.

The lesson from the other day was "do nothing, say nothing". I'm going to be like batman, all bad dialogue.


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Originally Posted By: DDJ
I am not saying that I want to be married to you. But I do not want a divorce now.


Huh?

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I'm saying that if she wants a divorce now, then she can go ahead. I'm not going to do anything, nothing at all.

Thankfully I am really starting to detach, focusing on my goals on a daily basis. I need to keep it up. My epiphany yesterday means that I must not lose focus on myself, or i will lose the plot and focus on the wrong thing - her.


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ok, i've got the book, do i start at Chpt 10?


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Chpt 1 is usually the way to start...

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Sandi says that convention is to start at chpt 10 for infidels.

Debating with my WW over finance for new car. I need her to sign the papers but she's clearly not able to think long term . Any help on persuading her whilst going dark would be appreciated.


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I'm confused. Are you and your wife getting a new car together?

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DDJ,

It's sounds like you've been busy today. I don't have any advice on the car financing question. I'm glad your appetite is back and you're sleeping well. I hope you can continue pushing toward your goals.

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Well dream, we need two cars, but we're married in community of property. She has just changed bank branches to somewhere further. And I need a car for routine commute. I am a shoo in for a job where I will have no choice but to have a car.

She did say that she is willing to take public transport to work, which is 25km away. Should I just say fine, take transport? One car is also not good for me to Gal, if she's already out.

She's afraid of the extra debt when splitting debt and assets for the D.


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Thx doodler, I was thinking about my hysterical posts as early as Monday. Either I'm going to have a hectic downswing,but I feel better.


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From everything that's been said up to this point, it appears that you are on track for a divorce. If she doesn't need a car, then there's no need for you to purchase a new one. However, if she intends to use the current car for the future, you will need something. That said, I don't think it's in your best interest to jointly purchase a car at this time. Is there any way you can purchase a car without her help? You certainly can't force her to co-sign for this.

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Yeah, it appears that i'm headed for a D. I'm not even blinking as i type that - is that a good thing?

But i'm not going to do anything regarding helping her out. She wants it then she needs to file and everything. or should i help her?

I told her to make up her mind by tomorrow about the car issue. She can't conceivably take public transport as it will take her an hour and a half instead of 25 mins to work. But her stubbornness runs very deep. I will apply without her help, actually. I'll make the decision for her. She can keep the current car and i'll finance the other one myself.

Had a heated debate now with her. She raised her voice and I was calm. she was crying that she does not even have a mother to talk to about her problems. I was thinking, maybe you should try God, but we know where that goes sometimes. It was an excellent opportunity to detach and it went well. I never pushed her further away and i let her tears be her own. I need to try and not be so cold, but i guess i'll get better in time.

oh, and apparently I pushed her onto another man - and then she didn't wanna get up.

Just got a text - "I need time out, going to BFF's brother now, please look after son and call me if he needs me." Initial split second was anger, then i let the anger go. Now i let her go.


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Just to throw this out there,the other day my h told ow every time he prays he feels god gives him the answer to walk. They will try anything to validate their wild ways. And the "you pushed me" well that's just another excuse. Spew spew spew. Well done on staying calm.

Focus on your son, protect him. He needs a level headed parent. She is so up and down she can't be that. Stay steady


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I'm steady cherry. Not even going to tell him that his wayward mother may not be home anytime soon. It is my turn to put our S to sleep anyhows.

I was about to leave with him before she did, guess she softened me just about right. Tomorrow night i'm going out. Dropping our S after creche and leaving her by herself.


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DDJ,

I'm headed toward D and my emotions are all over the map. Now I understand what the vets have said; don't let emotions be your guide. Stay with the process.

So, I agree with Cherry, focus on your son and focus on being a better man. Try to remove yourself from the drama. (As usual, I'm saying that for myself as well.)

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Here's my advice:
Stop DOING so much. Stop TALKING so much.

Your emotions are high. W's emotions are high.

Just take a few steps back and try to exist for a time. I can understand that this limbo isnt great or comfortable. But for now, neither of you has any answers. Turn your focus away from W. Away from M. Away from D.

Build yourself. Build your relationship with your son.

Stop making these large gestures and purchases and just live for a bit.

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I don't think its emotions, maybe its apathy. I am calm and she's out and i'm not concerned. I try to not talk, that just comes out. But i am not doing. I never replied to her text.

I need to plan because i cannot wait for her, and i need the second car, whether we're going thru a D or not.

I'm hitting my objectives. I never initiated the argument. I left the room and she followed me. I went to pick our S up and she made plans to go out.

I can let her go, but I think i get sucked in, trying to validate and it comes out all wrong.


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DDJ, I wanted to stop bye and thank you again for chatting last night... I really needed someone to listen.. Anyway, not many tears yet, a few but I'm sure they'll come tonight when I actually may get some sleep...

I've now read the first 8 or so pages and the last4 of your sitch... Wow, you've come a long ways, I long to be in the place you are now, in control of yourself and deciding what you really want. It's hard to see that place from the starting line, but for now, I'm gonna go GAL..


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thx coconut. Its been a hard journey, but even as i let her go, i think i'm still pushing her away. I think there's a fine line between the two really. Not sure which side i'm on usually.

But what i am (not) doing is initiating contact when she's not in my space. I just can't help but to communicate when she is, i'm facing my tiger but think i'm toying with it instead of staring it down.


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i think that i post too much. i know that i think too much. WW said that i'm too analytical, girls don't like that. I never said anything, just nodded.

As i lay here peaceful and putting my S to sleep, I played "that's how she knows, you love her" from the disney "enchanted" movie and realise that I never really showed her that I loved her in the way that she wanted to be loved. She also never showed me love in the way that i wanted too.

That makes me sad, that its 10 years of total miscommunication. I'm not crying for my M or my WW, but for myself. There is no way that this could have ended any differently, besides me becoming wayward. Sometimes things just happen, call it Karma, Serendipity, Life. It just happens. How you deal with it is really the show of character.

I miss my W, I miss my M, I miss my family. I know that the missing will pass, but for now, I will feel it. I need to be this strong when she's around, i do.


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my S is saying "that he hates family". i ask him why? he says "cos mom is gone, we're not family". I took down the family pics and he brought it up too, never thought he'd be hurt. Going to put them back up with him quickly. I'm sad, gonna continue to wallow.


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DDJ,

I'm very sorry that your son is upset. The thing I dread most about my marriage woes is that my sons have to suffer for something that isn't their fault.

Be a good dad, I'm sure you are, and your son will be alright.

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I know that we will all be alright, it just stings in the moment, like losing a limb; you won't recognise yourself if you grew it back.

My parents divorced when i was 7 and i never noticed until i was like 9, and then it was only because my father was never there when he promised.

My tummy is a little anxious as the WW is still not home and its 11pm already. I need this though, I need to feel it. Am done with feeling down tho. Won't fight that feeling.
Am going out tomorrow night all alone but only after I say sleep time prays with my son and WW. For what its worth, i've got to have him feel he's got a family for as long as possible.


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Just had a thought... If we push our WS away with our actions, then they are free to do what they want because they are simply "breaking free" from our control. If we do not push them away then they are forced to control themselves.

Why is this thing so counter-intuitive. Rebellion, stubbornness and selfishness always is.


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Who said anything about pushing your wife away?

Focus on yourself and get through the night. Have you been reading the book?

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me looking for a reaction, was...

going to meditate and try and go back to sleep.


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i got the book late afternoon, leaving it at work tho. don't want her to find it.


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So, WW came in at 1-45. Still have no choice to trust that she's not cheated, she is on her menzies and her demeanor has not changed. But what does it matter anyhows.

I realised that I could not sleep because I was hungry, the longer i stay awake, the hungrier i get. So by 12:30 I ate quite a bit, and was asleep by 1am, only to be awoken by her. I made a decision that this is not the life i want to lead, even if she's just hanging out. All that i'm doing is giving her rope to hang me with. I refuse to exist like this.

Anyhows, she comes in, says that she's going to sign for the car today, because when i went to fetch our S at creche, she was crying and realised that she only had me in her life, no-one else. She's decided that she's not going to lose me and we're going to stay married FOREVER (i cringed). She said that if we can keep on going out by ourselves with our own friends then she will be happy. As long as we tell each other where we're going and who we're going with.

SHE BAT CRAZY. I think that by the end of this, i'm going to be a WAS, i really think that that's where i'm headed. She is killing all attraction that I had for her.

And i need to add one more thing to my daily goals, REMAIN MYSTERIOUS. My mother always says that the one hand must not know what the other is doing. Why are our mothers so wise!


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...and this is her reply to me saying "thx" for signing for the car this morning...

You welcome my love, you and I are gonne be together and married forever!!


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Your situation is a mind boogling one to me.

Is it because as you went ahead to fix yourself you realised you no longer want to be her? Or is it because you feel shes not meeting you half way, doing her part to fix herself?


Me31 W31 M11yrs S6yrs
23Mar16-BD
9Apr16-W admitted EA w boss.
27Jun16-W Changed job and promised NC w OM.
14Jul16-Continued contact w OM.Start of Separation.
24May17-Divorced.
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DDJ, don't be too hard on yourself, it's hard to look at what used to be your wife and feel like your talking to the person she was before it all started... I was doing really well today, until she came home and I broke from my goals and had a discussion with her... Face to face is so hard not to want to talk, and I feel like things can work out so well... Then I realize she hasn't even said sorry yet, and I know she's not where she needs to be, and feel stupid for talking. I guess I'm just trying to say we are only human...

I'm sorry to hear about your son, that's where your focus needs to be, make sure he's getting extra time and loving, kids that feel loved turn out great, the love helps them deal with the pain too.

Get some sleep bud, I'm not having any luck, I'm coming up on 48 hours without any.


M - 9 1/2 years
5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA
10/31/16 - We sold house
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Most LBSs say that their WS has become a mutant, I see that mine has always been one. She has serious emotional trauma that she needs to work on if we can ever have a real R. She is not strong enough to go and get help and improve herself, at least for the immediate future. I know that I need to be patient and she can only fix herself in her own time.

I told Sandi at the start that I want my WW to grovel before she can come back into the M; I have not really started improving myself, but i see what is sooo wrong with her more clearly. And i don't like what and who i see/saw. I might feel differently in a month or two, who knows.

But one thing is for certain, i see myself moving forward exponentially and leaving her behind to pick up her own pieces.


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Hey Coconut, the insomnia thing is kinda fine at the start as i found it clears my head; i've replaced liquor with coffee and red bull so it's alot healthier, in moderation tho.

The face-to-face is the most difficult, that's why i'm adding "being mysterious" to my goals. I need to play it cool, aloof. Have not done that in decades, but need to sharpen them skills - def.


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oh, and natus, i sense insincerity in her words. A total turn-off.


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Car was approved. Now I can really GAL! I know that i need to become autonomous. The second car enables this. Finally some good news - praying that i get the other job too.


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WW just called me, chatting like we're married. She said "why did she want to get a D if we make such a great couple", she even said "I love you", twice, to which i responded "thx".
She then said, "ok, so this is how it's going to be", also stating "i'm never gonna let you go and we're going to be married forever."

I need help here pls. It does not matter what she's thinking, what does this mean?


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Quote:
I told Sandi at the start that I want my WW to grovel before she can come back into the M;


Just to clarify, "grovel" was your word, not mine.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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yes Sandi it was. I intend to keep my word wink

She just asked me if i have a hidden agenda about getting the second car... I said that i did not (the deceit). All contact is from her side. That's about 6 so far and its 1pm in the afternoon.


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Wow.. They say the craziest stuff. I have a list going. One of my favorites from my WW "if we ever get back together, can we have more kids?"... We have only been separated, she sees it as broken up I guess, I had a V because we only wanted 2. Would I have had another kid with her in the past? Probably.. Now?? Really??


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2013 B drop 1, EA found
2016 B drop 2, EA/PA?
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I miss you so very much today :-)
Mwahxxx

LATEST UNSOLICITED EMAIL - i don't reply, do i? its not a question.


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Good - don't reply.

Also start a new thread


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Originally Posted By: DDJ
WW just called me, chatting like we're married. She said "why did she want to get a D if we make such a great couple", she even said "I love you", twice, to which i responded "thx".
She then said, "ok, so this is how it's going to be", also stating "i'm never gonna let you go and we're going to be married forever."

I need help here pls. It does not matter what she's thinking, what does this mean?


This means she's going to talk the talk without walking the walk in hopes that you stay with her (forever!).

Have you been following Sandi's rules?

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