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OFP #2672830 04/29/16 10:05 AM
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Sandi's rules.. Most don't apply to me because my sitch prevents them. There is no way she will "see" the changes. Though I do feel an overwhelming desire to want to "explain" to W I never intended to hurt her. But I already have said it, she already read it. In fact I may have taken blame for too much?

Many M's end in D. If I am taking a NC approach, how can anything ever have a chance at R?

I also read in someone else's post about "romance novels"... And heard just a couple weeks ago about they give women unrealistic ideas of what a R should be. My W definitely read many of them! More lately turned to the "chicken soup for the ...." books.

Dettaching.... Not going real well either. I managed to not try to dig for info for a couple days now, new record!

OFP #2673428 05/02/16 05:20 AM
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hey ofp, i do appreciate you reading my threads. i hope all of my failings and struggles could help someone, because ive made so many mistakes. I think the biggest take away is that this all takes so much patience, compassion, time and luck. there is work too, working on ourselves to make us a better man before all this started, otherwise...why would they ever come back?

you have asked a ton of questions. many just cannot be answered without time and evolving understanding of who you are and want to become. on the controlling topic, folks could debate forever on what is and is not controlling behavior. learning to accept that your partner has the freedom to choose is a huge start down the path of letting go of that control.

learning that even tho you feel like you rescued her from her past, she owes you nothing. you didn't do that for a reward, right? you didn't ride up and lift her from her pain just to garunteed you a spouse for life. no, expectations are a relationship killer. moreso with a person with abuse in thier past when they no longer can pretend and ignore the pain that they have held down all those years,

if you love her then she must have no demands on her to be 'X' for you no matter what. your wife vowed herself when you married and i take those vows to heart, however those vows are not absolute garuntees.

I am sorry this is not a great explanation of my thought...I could type for a week on this alone, but i have to run, so I am sorry.

GAL, you just have to do it...this along with gratitude and love for yourself are athe cornerstones of making yourself whole again...it is what will help drive your esteem and self worth back to where it belongs. your relationship has drained them both for so long...but rediscovering passion for life starts with getting out there and doing.

one more thing, having female friends is ok, but they should not be your anchor...they should not serve to feed your emotional needs right now. you need to learn to fill those needs on your own. you need to learn that you don't NEED a woman's shoulder to cry on. is it nice yes, but you should learn that it is not something that you have to rely on...we have to eventually learn thatbeing your own anchor AND sails is enough...the rest is just icing on your cake.

you can do this!


M - 40's
W - 30's
Two Sons
Living together
Zephyr #2673657 05/02/16 03:15 PM
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Zephyr, thanks for replying again, I appreciate it. Yes, your story and others have been educational. From reading yours and other's stories, it is interesting to hear about "loving without needing." Sadly my "need" for my W may have been the only reason I stayed with her.

Overcoming codependence is not fun. And being an introvert on top of it! I had one person I felt comfortable with in the entire world, ONE.


My discussions with female friends really aren't much different than male friends. But females are typically much better at "understanding."

Here's one thing I panic about regularly... I "stand", she moves on, with someone new, and is happier without me. Why did I wait? Obviously everyone has had to make that choice, but it has to be just gut wrenching the entire time! And in the end, when it doesn't pay off anyway? Ouch!

OFP #2673660 05/02/16 03:19 PM
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I wasn't perfectly happy with her. There were numerous issues that frustrated me every day. I am sure I voiced them to her at times. But when I looked at the overall package, I was happy. (only codependent happy?) Getting a D is going to actually make some of the issues worse, like compromising on coparenting.

And, all the things she has done since BD.... It's so hard to not hate. The only way to not hate is to assume she completely lost her mind (MLC for example). The other option that creeps back in my head, is she had an intentional path to destroy me, the most hurtful path possible, a little giggling about it even. There are people like that! I don't think she is one of them, but it was so uncalled for, I have to wonder.

Talking to one of the FF's, she asked what W put in the OFP. I let her read it. She stopped over and over and looked at me and said "I am so sorry." I told her details of what was true, what was perceived, and what was flat out lies.

I also read her the text messages between us the week before BD. W was saying extreme things I had never heard before, fear of manipulation, etc. I was open and understanding during these discussions with W, and suggesting MC to try to find the issue. W said that she was worried I would manipulate the counselor! W said in the OFP that I controlled everyone and everything.

FF was saying that there's a reason people can't get married at age 14, they aren't emotionally able to deal with real world relationships in a healthy way. An adult should have better coping mechanisms. She continued that even if everything in the OFP was 100% correct (which it's not), that it still isn't something that warrants an OFP. FF said this is what you would expect for actions, perception, and inability to protect herself of a 14 year old. And she closed with "why would you want that back?"

OFP #2673666 05/02/16 03:30 PM
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Numerous people have told me now about my W's mental age (my IC said W and I had a father/daughter relationship). I never was able to put words to my frustration. I did notice things seemed childish or immature on a regular basis, but never thought until now that that she truly had the mentality of a 14 year old.

This explains why she could never get things done in the house, but would excel at getting ready for "fun" things, that's what all kids do.... that's why she couldn't handle finances. That's why she was content with the most menial of activities (from hook rugs to games on her phone that are intended for younger children), and literally spent all day doing that instead of anything productive. Sure, I enjoy a mind numbing activity occasionally, but not all day every day.

Where I screwed up is that I tried to hold her to higher standards, and was quite frustrated about it when she acted childish.

Maybe I wrote this before, FF said that it is sad, M'd for 20+ years, I am 40+, and I've never had an "adult" relationship.

Before anyone suggests I need to "own my part", believe me I do, and I have. I hurt for it every day, I wish I had done things different, I wish I had just let her be who she was even if I didn't agree with it, even though it was impacting my life. But do you know what I wish for mostly? I wish I never met my W, so that we wouldn't have had to put each through this pain! I wish I never had S11 & D9 with her so that they wouldn't have to suffer through this. I wish I held out for something better, someone smarter, and had kids with them instead. W was a great match for our "interests" but we were so mismatched otherwise.

I think I have finally gotten over the 50% point, and growing it more every day... I am NOT going to "stand." If she comes back, which I actually highly doubt, I don't know what I'd tell her, but it probably won't be good.

I suppose my posts are no longer following the essence of what this site stands for?

OFP #2673674 05/02/16 03:49 PM
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My WW has a very immature mental or emotional age as well. We he the same sort of relationship and she has had it in the last with relationships and I believe she has it again with OM. I believe it has to do with an event that occurred in her teens. It was either some abuse or the lack of father being there. Anyways, she will never change or get through it unless she seeks help, but she feels there is nothing wrong with her. She blames me for the relationship we had, even though it was her state that made it. She has to have someone else always to ask someone else for advice. I was that person until she started moving on.


Ralph88
Me 40s W 30s, D5 D3 , M7 T9
2013 B drop 1, EA found
2016 B drop 2, EA/PA?
2/16 Physical Seperation
2/16 I filed for D
4/16 PA Confirmed
OFP #2673675 05/02/16 03:51 PM
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I just remembered another example. After the OFP W had a party at the house. 6 adults and at least that many kids. And it was a sleepover, seemed childish. And they were drinking, with the kids there. I made issue of it through atty's. After that W told my mom she was afraid to have anyone come to the house. I assume W's atty told her it made her look dumb. But then her interpretation was also childish, she thought it meant no one could go there.

Next example, she switched atty's, and almost immediately my parenting time went up. I am assuming her atty told her it is making her look stupid. This new atty also apparently suggested she does MC with me, as refusing makes her look stupid.

She's not only susceptible to adult guidance, she needs it!

OFP #2673680 05/02/16 04:03 PM
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And another example... W hasn't had the kids alone more than a couple days in the last 6 months, her mother is always there.

I hate pondering it, but when she is so dependent, it may be the reason she never left, until she had something else lined up. I hope not, as it eats away at me thinking about it. I'll get over that eventually. Not sure who I would feel more sorry for, her or the other guy?!

Ralph88 #2673730 05/02/16 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ralph88
My WW has a very immature mental or emotional age as well.


So you know where I am coming from!!!

My W is apparently going to an IC... Apparently it isn't working or the IC is terrible.

My thought... If a person was stunted emotionally as a child, there's a possibility that they go out on their own and grow and learn.. To be more empathetic, more self-aware, independent (unless they have OP, then they won't ever learn). But I am guessing that even if a couple of years fixes the emotional issues, it won't fix the intelligence levels. My W won't suddenly learn math and spelling and grammar, plus common sense, plus being more responsible, plus more interested in improving her life, plus how to survive independently, on top of the emotional issues. There's just too much to tackle at once!! And unless she changes to at least actually value those things, she won't regain respect for me, someone who possesses those characteristics. At this point she doesn' value thatt, and I think that is part of the reason she has totally unfairly labeled me as a nars-assist.

S11 is already noticing that W can't help him with math... Maybe I am giving her too much credit when I say she has the intelligence of a 14 y.o.

Ironic, the FF I was talking to, talked about how our home town/area, small towns, are so redneck. The people are so immature. Get to a large city and the people are so much more intelligent.

OFP #2673945 05/03/16 12:00 PM
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from missmyfriend's Standing "still"

Originally Posted By: missmyfriend
She wrote a story in one of her classes (Masters in Counseling -- yep!!) which she shared with me before she left. It was sad. She imagined herself, living alone in a small house, remote, while I was in a new marriage and very happy. It was not a story that sounded like wishful thinking but extremely sad.


OK, that was a tear jerker! S11 one day said that my W said that I was going to be happier without her. I hate to read too much into it, as it came through a child, but it hurt me to think she might feel that way. S11 also told me that W said she is happier now, and he said she clearly is not. So, opposite messages, probably shouldn't assume any meaning. And even if she did say it, "believe none of what they say" should come into play?

Originally Posted By: missmyfriend
She was my best friend. I really miss that.

I really have to quit reading these forums.... that is exactly what I miss about my W. I need to let go, I need to stop with the positive thoughts about the M!!

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