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Hi Raine - I am in somewhere in the MLC labyrinth living with a MLCer who has not moved out. Not exactly the life I had sketched out for myself . . .

I read all your threads many moons ago. Thank you so much for coming back and posting. I understand why you were hesitant to post an update for those of us looking for "success stories." But to me, you were a success as you were going through it! I marveled at the fact that you were pregnant, had 3 kids, a spouse in MLC and yet had your act together. To me, you were a super hero, complete with cape and tights.

It's true that we all start off here trying to save our marriages. We think that's the pot of gold. But ever so slowly the vets re-direct us to saving ourselves. And therein lies the true success story. So many in your position would get lost in all this, whatever "this" is that we're all going through.

Thank you for posting from the other side of all this. May we all meet you there.

Bea, if you are reading I want to thank you for your support early on. I know you don't come here often (so I will hijack here) but your advice helped me so much. I think of you often.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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Hello, my sweet, amazing friend. I havent read through all the comments on this thread so forgive me if I repeat what's been said.

Having "known" you for some time, I feel as if I can say a few things. You have fought for your marriage with everything you had and then some.

I understand being the type of person to never give up. I understand wanting to help someone you love. I understand completely. But I always told you and others, that this cannot ever be at the cost of you. It just cant. You matter, Raine. A great deal.

He is still so lost. I know what the depths of depression feel like. I know what it is like to just want to run away. It is an abyss, that. A feeling of free falling into a never ending hole.

The thing of it is, that the only way he has any hope of stopping the fall and climbing back out...is for him to do it alone. No one can do it for him. No one can wish it or hope it for him.

You are an amazing woman, my friend. You did what you needed to do for the man that you loved. And now you must love him enough to truly let him go..and love yourself enough, too.

There is something special about the people on here. We are fighters. We love with a depth that cannot be described.

I know that you needed to walk this journey in the way that you did. I know that without a single doubt. You should have no regrets.

So, it is the next part of your journey. Celebrate you, Raine. Celebrate who you are and how you love and what you mean to those who love and care about you.

He will either get through to the other side or not. It is out of your control.

I pray that he remains in your children's lives. I know that they will be ok because of who their mother is...although I know it breaks your heart to see them hurting.

I am honored to have watched you walk this. I know the next part...will be you soaring. No one knows what the future holds..except that it holds you.

Love you, sweetie.

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Raine- Thank you for posting. While each situation is different I am struck but how little we can change things after BD. It is completely up to the spouse and while I don't want to sound negative I think that usually BD is something they do after they have set course weeks or months or years earlier. I am not trying to be negative but the vast majority of the time it seems as if the spouse is mentally checked out long before he gives us notice. We can't fix them and we didn't break them but geez I just wish they had more faith in the marriages and families they professed to love so deeply for most of their lives.

I wish you the happy ending but I sense you are reimagining what that looks like for your life. Please know that your faith in your H was not wasted. Please know that you did your best and if H is unable or unwilling to see that then he is not worthy of you at this moment in time.

You have lots of people supporting you whatever the future holds. Hang on to that and come here if you need to vent or ask questions or cry or scream. It is all understandable and just fine with us.


M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters
BD: 5/14
Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW
D Final 9/17

“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.”
― Maya Angelou



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Hey all. I thought I’d post an update of what’s going on.

So H has been gone now for 6 weeks or so. Living with roommates, on a blow up mattress. He hasn’t gotten the extra bed we have or really much of anything. All he has taken is a bunch of clothes and some toiletries.

Three weeks ago he left for a business trip. He spent a week on business and then he took at week and a half vacation to go spend time with his family. I thought that was a good thing. I’ve wanted him to go spend time with his family for awhile now, thinking it would help him. But he was so up in his head about telling me this a few months ago. He was going to move out rather than tell me he was leaving on this trip. Yeah, I don’t get it either. I also don’t get the point of moving out for 2 weeks, and then going on a 2.5 week trip. Honestly I don’t think I get any of this. I’m working on not trying to get it smile

Okay so…this trip…as his plan was landing, there was a problem with the landing, and all he could think to do was turn on his phone and call me. He thought that was the end. It was all fine, but at least I’m still his last call…right? He went out a few days before he needed to be there for the business, to adjust to the time and also do some sightseeing. He started texting me a lot while he was gone. Things like this:
“Thousand years is playing here and it’s making me miss you miss you.”

“All I wanted today was to be with you. I wanted to be all these places with you. It was strange to feel that way, with everything going on, but that’s how it is. All I did all day today was talk about you.”

“I freaking miss you. That’s all today was for me. Just missing the sh-t out of you. It’s been a damn long time since I had those strong feelings for you. And I want to be straight with you always.”

“You do matter. You matter so much. You can’t fix me. I can fix me. I don’t want to hurt you. I never wanted that.”

“Thank you for everything. Everything. I love my boys, and everything amazing about them is you.”

I never said I missed him or anything else back like that. The longer the trip went on, the less he was saying things like that. Maybe because I wasn’t reciprocating it, or who knows.

I took the older boys to a therapist appointment the week before he got home. The therapist was incredibly puzzled. He has never had a situation like this before. He was confused by it. So it’s pretty difficult to try to explain things to the boys, who can’t figure out what is wrong with Dad. My oldest told the therapist, “My dad is the happiest person in the world.”

H and I talked a little bit while he was with his family. There was something he brought up again, and I don’t think I have ever talked about it here, because I didn’t realize how big of a thing this was to him until he had moved back home in 2013. This is something that he has brought up so many times since then, and when he brought it up again a few weeks ago, that’s when I looked up the timelines of things…and it was kind of scary how things fit.

In 2012 a man (let’s call him Chris) in our neighborhood committed suicide. I was friends with his wife. Not close friends, but she and I would go to dinner with the same group of neighborhood ladies. It was quite shocking. This man was known as being so caring and would do anything for anyone. Always there to help. They had 4 kids.

H was not close to Chris at all. I don’t think H had even talked to him before. But it came out that Chris had been suffering from depression for a very long time, and he was on and off his pills, going off the pills himself, without doctor monitoring. I think there was a lot of arguing going on with his wife, difficult for his wife to deal with I’m sure. He was sleeping downstairs. They got into an argument early one evening and he went into the garage and hung himself. His 16 year old son found him. They’re not sure if he intended to, because he left no note. It was very sporadic, and seemed like a test or scare the way he did it.

H brought up Chris again while he was on his trip. And as we were talking, I looked up the date of the Chris’s passing. It was exactly a year before H BD the first time and left. That was such a surprise and such an “ah ha” moment all at the same time. I told H that Chris died exactly 1 year before he left the first time, and was such a clarifying realization for him too.

H said he is starting to work out timelines and whys in his head and that seems to be such a big piece of it to him. Stuff was messed up before that, but he said at Chris’ funeral is when he hugged his two best friends from that neighborhood and neither of them wanted to let the other go. First time they had done that. H said that ever since the funeral that whenever he sees these two friends, they always hug. Just this thing of never knowing when it will be the last time they see each other.

Even though one of those friends has left the neighborhood too, and even though H was all behind us moving, I know he had a very hard time moving away from those two guys, even though we only moved a mile away. H says he doesn’t like this neighborhood, but he never gave anyone a chance either.

I had always thought his MLC had more to do with some other things, with other friend’s divorce. With the death of a much closer friend’s 4 year old the month before BD. And H said, no, those things were hard, but they didn’t affect him like Chris’ suicide. It’s Chris that he has thought about a lot ever since then. Part of that is some regrets that he wish he had knew him, he admire him because of the way people talked about him after. He wishes he had known what he was going through so he could have tried to be there for him, could have at least tried to stop it. I think he felt a total connection to this person he didn’t know, because he could relate to him.

My own guess is this is why H will not take medication for depression. He will say it’s because of his dad, but my gut tells me it’s because of Chris and the fear that it won’t help and he’ll never be able to get off of them and trying to get off of the pills would kill him.

When H got back from his trip, he came straight here. He wanted to shower, do his laundry, see the kids, etc. And then he left when the kids went to bed. It felt like a closure for me. I had my answer. The next day I wrote him an email and told him he wants out, so he is out. He can’t pick and chose what he wants from this household, taking everything that benefits him, and leave the rest. I told him he can’t shower here, do his laundry, or anything else. I told him when he has the boys, then he takes them the full time, overnight, the full weekend. I told him that he never asked me if I was okay with him living with roommates and me having the kids 24/7. I said, no I’m not okay with it. I told him don’t think he is doing me any favors by saving money, by living with roommates, because he isn’t. I said he needs to get his own place now.

He acknowledged he got the email, but never responded to any of it. He hasn’t come by to shower or do laundry this week and says that he will respect my boundaries. When he came after work on Thursday (his day) he wanted to take the boys for sushi. He asked me at least 6 times to come with them, say he would love it, the boys would love it if I went with them. Telling the kids, “we’re just waiting on mom to get her shoes so she can come with us,” stuff like that. I said no, I’m okay, but thanks for asking. He then was going to take them somewhere else and asked if he could drop the youngest off, and I said, I would prefer he didn’t. And he said okay.

The therapist wanted H to bring the boys this last week, and he did. He called me up later that day and talked to me for nearly an hour about therapy and some work stuff. Saying the therapist was impressed with how both of us were handling things, how we’re both focused on the boys and making things the best we can for them. He says this is all very unusual for him in every way. He typically deals with a lot of fighting parents who say a lot of nasty things in front of the kids about the other parent. A lot of bitter and angry people.

So that’s where we are at. He has stopped trying to hug me every time he sees me now, not since I sent him the email. I told him if he wants to talk to the kids before bed, to call the house phone and not my phone. I doubt he has looked at apartments. He was over here today at 9am until the kids went to bed at night. I just kept to myself, worked on things. I don’t know what more I can do to just move on. I don’t feel like I’m waiting for him wake up and make amends. I feel like I’m trying to get through the landscaping and other things with the house and work that I’m dealing with now. I’m hoping that he will get his own place and we can have a schedule where he actually takes the kids. Divorce is something I’m looking into and the way to go about it, but that’s as far as I’ve gotten with it.


M38,H39
M:16Y
BD:8/12
OWDB:11/12
S:11/12-5/13
"Temp" home:6/13
OW dropped:9/13
"I love you":12/13
H ring on:2/14
Depression back:5/15
"I'm done:" 7/15
H moved out: 3/16
H moved back: 12/16
Working on us: 3/17
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Posts: 670
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Clarification: Chris' suicide was 8/2011


M38,H39
M:16Y
BD:8/12
OWDB:11/12
S:11/12-5/13
"Temp" home:6/13
OW dropped:9/13
"I love you":12/13
H ring on:2/14
Depression back:5/15
"I'm done:" 7/15
H moved out: 3/16
H moved back: 12/16
Working on us: 3/17
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
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Raine,
It sounds like the death of Chris was the trigger that started your h's downward spiral. Yes, he's got some other unresolved issues going on, but Chris was a friend and someone who lived in the neighborhood. A person doesn't have to be a close friend for their passing to trigger a crisis for another person.

Your h is afraid of depression and the stigma it creates. He's afraid to go on medication and I'm sure he's afraid of the possible side effects that it may create. Going on and going off the medication on his own could be lethal and create all sorts of issues for a person doing this. Apparently Chris was at the end of his rope (no pun intended) and thought the only way out was death. He may have felt that dying was the only way to have peace and provide peace to his family. I, too, know of a man who did this and he didn't leave a note either and yes, he was suffering from depression as well.

Your h has a lot of issues to deal w/and he may never deal w/all of them. He knows that he's losing a wonderful wife, family and home, but right now, he doesn't know how to fix himself in order to return home. He doesn't know how to be "happy".

You had to set your boundaries and you are sticking to them. You have to have some stability in your home for you and your sons and this is the only way to do so. I commend you for sticking to the boundaries. Raine, you've done everything humanly possible to save your marriage, but now you need to save yourself and your family. Whatever happens down the road, you and your sons will be fine...but it's going to take some time, patience and plenty of love to get to the other side.

Thank you for the update and I hope that you will continue to come back and periodically and let us know how you and your sons are doing.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Hey job! Thanks for your response smile

Yes, very interesting how things start to get more clear for H and for me. And you're exactly right. He can see all the positive things. He can see what he is losing. But he doesn't know what he wants or what is wrong or how to fix it. He thought once again that by leaving he would be happier. He isn't. It's worse, but it's not like he is asking to come home or anything like that. He just says he isn't happy. Still angry. Working 60-80 hours a week. His boss/co-workers are noticing how he is short-tempered with people, but he's still performing well. He just got another promotion.

I've been annoyed by him and angry at him and frustrated at him. It's just too much for me to try to do all this and run all of this as a single mom. Yet it is so important to him that I keep this house for me and the kids. And I don't even care. I just don't feel like I care about anything.

So I've been telling him that he has to get his own place. He has to take the kids to his own place during his time, for the full time he should have them, overnight, on the weekends. He just isn't doing anything. I've definitely been angry at him.

I've told him he is using me and I'm not okay with that. Because I'm working, he is taking advantage of me. Because I'm working we can pay for his rent plus the house and everything else. I am not working to support this situation, where he does whatever he wants, keeps the facade that he is providing all this for his family, and then in this room situation where he can't be responsible to take the kids. I feel like the cost difference between a room and a 2 bedroom apt is not that big of a deal and even if it was, it's just the way it is. This is how it is when people get divorced. You have responsibility for the kids. You don't go live like a college student. I've told him it is not okay and it's not okay for the kids to see this and think it's okay. I told him I will not pay for another month of this and he has to get his own place. I've put down on our synced calendar that he has the kids overnight on his night starting in June. I don't know what else I can do. Start staying in a hotel room on the nights he is supposed to have the kids? That's about all I can think of. He won't go get a place, then I'll start blowing even more money than the cost of him staying in apartment.

He scheduled appointments with his therapist starting in July. So that's good at least. But I'm so done with this situation. I'm ready to take action, any kind of action. I am so done with being in this feeling of stuck feeling like I have to wait on him. And I guess I don't, right? I can just go file for divorce.

And yes, I know, just worry about me and the kids, but a huge part of this is the kids and this situation. It's not right for them that he isn't taking them for the time he should. And I feel unstable and on edge because everything seems so up in the air. It's not a day to day thing. Day to day I'm dealing with work and landscapers and projects and the kids. But "he" is still there and I'm assuming always will be.

He tries to go out of his way for us, shows up at places he knows I'll be, wants to go to dinner and do things as a family. Like still be a part of the family and everything else, just sleeping in two different houses. It's just weird and it [censored] me in. I feel a lot of emotion towards him. This boiled mess of sympathy and anger.

And maybe that's because I'm going through my own crisis. My own crisis of faith and how I feel about things, everything, way beyond just him. I just want to quit my job, quit everything, take the kids, and run away somewhere, just anywhere. Whatever this is right now, I don't want it.


M38,H39
M:16Y
BD:8/12
OWDB:11/12
S:11/12-5/13
"Temp" home:6/13
OW dropped:9/13
"I love you":12/13
H ring on:2/14
Depression back:5/15
"I'm done:" 7/15
H moved out: 3/16
H moved back: 12/16
Working on us: 3/17
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 444
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Hello Raine. I've read all your old threads and I feel like I'm speaking with a long lost friend. Still, I am so sorry that you find yourself here again. I know what it's like to think you've survived the crisis only to have it come back to suck you in again.

Originally Posted By: Raine
But I'm so done with this situation. I'm ready to take action, any kind of action. I am so done with being in this feeling of stuck feeling like I have to wait on him. And I guess I don't, right? I can just go file for divorce.


This so resonated with me. Without going into a lot of detail, I felt for so long that I was stuck. I even had people tell me that. It took a long time for me to realize that I wasn't stuck, that I had the power to change my course anytime I want and that most of what I did in my life, I did because I choose to.

The hard part is that once you realize that, the world sort of opens up to you and you have to figure out just where to go, what to do, what is best for you and your kids.

I've spent a enormous amount of time trying to figure that out for myself and haven't been able to nail it down. It's very frustrating but I believe the answer will come.

I've been in the "I'm so done" camp, too. But I think if you have doubts about pulling the trigger, if you aren't sure what you're doing is the "right" thing to do, if you aren't sure the path you're about to take is the right one, if you're hesitating to take that "action," then it's best to put things on the back burner until you are sure. I don't believe in running "from something" like our H's MLC. I believe we need to run "to" something ... the answer to that dilemma above. Once you are comfortable with where you are running "to," then make it happen. Until then, maybe it's best to just to sit for a while, if you can.

I wanted to run away, too. I wanted to get in my car and drive off to some place where no one knew me and no one could find me. It was such an enticing fantasy. But if I did that, wouldn't I be doing exactly what my H has done? I don't want to go there.

And like you, I don't want whatever this is right now. But I realize I have to figure out what it is exactly that I do want before I get in that car and drive off into the sunset.

Many, many {{{hugs}}} to you my sister.


Me: 59 and holding
H: :53
Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown
M: 19
T: 23
BD: 9-23-2013
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Hi Raine,

I haven't read all your old threads yet, but I'm planning too as soon as I get a chance. I wanted to send you (((hugs))), what an awful situation you are finding yourself into. I hope you and the boys are ok, and that your H gets some help somehow.

Take care!


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





#2739274 04/17/17 03:02 PM
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Has it really been almost a year? I do feel bad about not posting most. I know I always wanted to. I think what happens with so many of us who start out posting here is we are just searching for a lifeline. Just searching for someone to tell us that 1 - we're not alone and 2 - that we're going to be okay. And to us "okay" means that everything is just going to magically right itself, just like how one day everything magically went wrong. We don't say that here, because we know someone is just going to come along and pop that bubble, but that's really what we mean, isn't it?

What we just never realize in the beginning is that when we come into this we think that the okay means that everything will just go back to how we believed our marriages actually were. And maybe we share a bit of that MLC delusion, and as much as we don't want to believe it, our marriage simply isn't there. It's as made up as the MLCer's belief that we're the most horrible people in the world and our marriages were awful. We don't want to think that we could be a bit delusional too. I didn't want to think I was delusional. I still don't want to believe that.

Everything I did came down to, if I just want it bad enough, if I just work hard enough, if I just do and say everything right, I can fix this. And even though I'm thinking "I give him space to fix himself while I work on myself too," the real underlying belief that I kept deep in my heart is "I can fix this, because I'm doing THIS, which then allows THAT." Even just leaving everything alone and just focusing on me, beneath all that is the thought that I am doing this, because this is what needs to be done in order for him to wake up out of his crisis. If I can just fake what I'm supposed to do for long enough, we're going to make it.

I don't know if you can change your mindset on any of that. Maybe that too is part of the process. Going through this will change you. It will change everything about you. They'll say that to you, but you can't know what that means until you're actually there. And just like the MLCer, maybe some of us never wake up either. Some of us never really truly do the work on ourselves. Just like the MLCer, we don't want to believe that there is anything wrong with us that needs fixing. Maybe if we realized we're broken too, maybe it would be easier to focus on ourselves and fix ourselves.

I did a search for my name on the forum. What I found was those who were saying exactly what I was feeling when I came to the forum. I wanted to see those success stories. I wanted to know it would all be made right. And I didn't want to hear that things didn't work out. I didn't want to get to the end of someone's story and hear that he left again. Yes people had been through it, divorced, and are happy, but surely not as happy as those who reconciled their marriage, so I believed. That's why we are on this forum. We're here to win back our marriage. There is only one destination that ends in true happiness, right?

I will tell you this, I feel I did work on myself, maybe not always for the right reasons, but I really feel I did work on me. I am a completely different person than I was 5 years ago. I don't think the same way; I don't believe the same things. Everything that I was told to believe my whole life, I have questioned. I've left so much of it behind. And, it's great. It's amazing to live life this way. I feel I have a genuine concern and compassion for people that I never had before. I did, on some level, but not this level. I'm mindful. I'm at peace. There are things that were so important to me then, that have no place in my life anymore. I'm loving my journey. My life is no longer about destinations and timelines and if I can just get through this phase, or this crisis, or this diversion, then I can be happy. I'm happy now. This is better than any fairytale marriage I believed I had. This happiness is a part of me, and not reliant upon anyone else.

What I wish I could have been able to understand then is that the happiness I was looking for was not in the reconciliation of my marriage. The whole time, that was my golden ticket. That goal of a healthy, perfect marriage that I believed I once had. I can tell you, that's not where the happiness is. You won't believe me though. I wouldn't have believed it either.

I wish it was possible for you to know that how it ends isn't what matters. It's will be okay if they never come home. Stop thinking about it, worrying about it, hoping for it. Enjoy today. I feel like I wasted so many years of my life during all of this, just worrying and hoping and thinking about how it's going to end. Don't do that. Step away from it and find the joy in your journey right now. Because this truly is a gift. You'll keep hearing that, and you'll just think I'm crazy for saying it, but I promise you, it's true. You're really going to like the person that you become on the other side of all of this. That's who you are saving. When you wake up from this life transition, you're going to realize that what you really want, what makes you happy, is not the same thing you're hoping for right now. And that's a really good thing.

I need to tell you what has been going on for the last year, but I think really what you want to know is where it ends, at least where it ends today. H has been in weekly therapy for about 7 months now. He is working through his past. He's working on him. He's quite amazing, talented, intelligent and insightful. I'm so proud of him and admire him so much. He is the greatest dad. He adores me. He's interested in me. He's concerned about what's going on in my life. He's working on being happy. That's a daily thing for him. Probably an hourly thing. I'm working on me too. I'm working on being happy. And I realize now, that never ends. This working on yourself, don't let that ever end. I'm better now than I was then, but tomorrow I'm working on becoming even better.

He's been back home for four months now. We're together. I don't question it. I don't wonder if that's going to change. It could. There isn't a pattern to this. There isn't a step by step guide the fits my situation, that fits his MLC. All I know is I like where we are heading now. I'm happy to be in moment of my life, no matter where it takes me. I love him. Every day I love him.

Previously on Rebuilding Raine:
1st - Completely heartbroken by husband's MLC
2nd - Rinse, repeat, replay
3rd - Here we go loopty loo. Here we go loopty li.
4th - Crazy little thing called MLC
5th - Back home, for all the wrong reasons
6th - One month down, zero casualties
7th - I am titanium
8th - I've looked at life from both sides now
9th - Don't Break Character
10th - Stuck On You
11th - Not so stuck anymore


M38,H39
M:16Y
BD:8/12
OWDB:11/12
S:11/12-5/13
"Temp" home:6/13
OW dropped:9/13
"I love you":12/13
H ring on:2/14
Depression back:5/15
"I'm done:" 7/15
H moved out: 3/16
H moved back: 12/16
Working on us: 3/17
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Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

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