Not sure where to go from here

[Rouky]

IP, I can only imagine how much strength it must have required you to not cry with your son. If H's presence in the house is hard, could there be a way where you would drop the kids where your H is staying.
Just a thought. Thank you for being there for me :-). Look after yourself and your beautiful children xx

[inpain]

Hi Rouky, thanks for posting! I hear what you're saying about dropping the kids somewhere for H. It is really hard for me to know what to do and how to approach things. H comes round every day and stays until he wants to go to bed, unless it is a day where his shifts prevent him doing so. It's almost like he's living here except for sleeping! I've been allowing it to continue like this while we did the exercises in the book but don't think it is healthy for the kids to continue this way much longer. If we don't reconcile then they will be so used to seeing him all the time and the hurt will go back to square one I fear.

Tonight WAH and I are going out for a meal. His suggestion after I asked what was next after we finished the counselling exercises in the book. Really not sure how to approach things. Not sure what his motivation is for doing it. Whether he sees it as a step towards reconciliation or what, I don't know. We went out for a meal about 3 weeks into this mess and it didn't end well. I expected "I want to come home." and I got, "I have nothing to say." Trouble is too, I don't know how I feel anymore. I feel like I'm done and that again I have done all the work to become a better person and he has just spiralled along in a whirlwind doing no work on himself. I'm going to just play it by ear and let H lead the conversation etc but I can't say I'm looking forward to it. If you'd asked me a few months ago how I'd feel if H asked me to go to dinner with him I'd have said I'd be thrilled! Now I just feel 'meh' about it.

[Irish M]

If you'd asked me a few months ago how I'd feel if H asked me to go to dinner with him I'd have said I'd be thrilled! Now I just feel 'meh' about it.

IP , that's sounds more like detaching and not getting your hopes up. Which is good. I truly hope the supper went well. H initiated it and you don't expect anything from it. Many here would love that.

if it was a good night , enjoy it and hopefully your H sees what he's missing. If it turned bad, you are less angry and hurt.

Either way , you control your emotions.

Irish

[inpain]

Thanks Irish. I truly appreciate your post as always. My thread seems to have become very quiet.

IP , that's sounds more like detaching and not getting your hopes up.

I hope you're right Irish. As you know I have been worrying a lot about my own feelings, feeling like I'm done and don't want H back. Maybe it is just as you say, that I have detached.

The dinner went OK but it seemed obvious that we each had different reasons for being there. For me it felt like an awkward first date where I wasn't sure I wanted to be there. H seemed to be treating it like any other dinner date we might have had when we were properly together. He said nothing of the situation we're in, or his thoughts for the future, so I didn't either. It was all just polite chit chat about work, the food and the weather (it snowed heavily while we were there).

In the car on the way home H commented that we should maybe go out again next week somewhere cheaper (he had chosen a very expensive restaurant). He then said, "We didn't go out enough did we?" Interesting comment as that was one of my major complaints over the last few years and he was never bothered! Maybe he has been doing some thinking about what has brought us to this point.

He looked like he was welling up when we pulled up outside the house and made his excuses not to come in (my Mum was babysitting and he is clearly avoiding my family like the plague).

He hasn't said anything further about another dinner date next week but I will wait and see. I'm certainly not going to pursue the matter - no pursuing, detach, detach!

[Irish M]

hi Inpain
I think you handled that perfectly

- No relationship talk (that old relationship is gone)
- No expectation (it was a first date)

I understand why your H wouldn't come in. Before he can reconnect with you he doesn't want to be judged. He knows he messed up. It will take time for him to really open up to your family. That will happen only when he feels comfortable with you.

Continue what you are doing. You are the prize, let him continue to win you back.

How are the kids? Have they falling into the routine of daddy not being there? I/m sure you are being amazing with them. They are lucky to have a string mom.

take care
Irish

[inpain]

hi Inpain
I think you handled that perfectly

- No relationship talk (that old relationship is gone)
- No expectation (it was a first date)

Thanks Irish!

I understand why your H wouldn't come in. Before he can reconnect with you he doesn't want to be judged. He knows he messed up. It will take time for him to really open up to your family. That will happen only when he feels comfortable with you.

Yes, you're right. I think the bigger worry though is my family accepting him if he 'comes back'. They are all so disgusted with his behaviour, the way he has gone about this and the way he has treated me and the children since: like toys to pick up or discard whenever the mood strikes. None of my family think I should even entertain the idea of a reconciliation. As far as they're concerned he is untrustworthy, unreliable and not a fit husband or father.

Continue what you are doing. You are the prize, let him continue to win you back.

I am starting to believe that I am a prize, maybe that is DBing in action? I now see that while I, of course, did contribute to our M problems, I have been put through some hard to forgive things from H and he is not owning his share at all. I have got through the last almost 6 months with dignity and my head held high and coped much better than I ever imagined I could. I still make sure I look nice and even when H has been his worst to me or the children I have remained calm. So, yes, I am a prize. Sadly H doesn't seem to see that and judging on past experiences, he will do the bare minimum to win me back, but we will see. He will need to do so much work on his parenting to win me back. At this moment in time, that issue is the thing that makes me lose respect for him. He is nothing like I imagine a dad should be and it breaks my heart.

How are the kids? Have they falling into the routine of daddy not being there? I/m sure you are being amazing with them. They are lucky to have a string mom.

They are falling into a routine of this weird life that H is imposing on us all whereby I do everything to take care of them and he shows up every day, sits in a chair and offers the occasional command or punishment, then leaves. It is becoming very draining. I feel like I should enforce a boundary of him coming round less but don't want to hurt the kids any more than they already are. It is like he still lives here with the exception of sleeping here. I find it very strange.

Our D is coping exceptionally well but for S it is a different story. He is really struggling with it all. He is regularly in tears and rants and shouts at H when he comes round. I encourage him to talk about his feelings with me when D is in bed but I think he just wants H to acknowledge the pain he has caused and H just gets angry if S mentions it.

H had come in before I was even up this morning and was there, sitting in the chair as normal. He stayed for about an hour and then S started to react to his orders and he left saying that he couldn't stand to be around S any longer.

I am feeling disheartened to be honest. We've had a lovely couple of days as it is Bank Holiday weekend here. We've been busy GAL and had great fun. Then as soon as H arrives you can feel the whole household slump its shoulders. I am struggling to see a way back to a relationship with H, not just for me but for S too. It makes me so sad.

[Rouky]

Inpain I see that you are doing your best given the circumstance. You are very strong to have your husband coming in every night. I don't want to be the devil's advocate but if you were D and lived in two different households, would you allow your H to come and stay in your house every night? He doesn't seem to have lost nothing as you pointed out the only difference is not him being there in the evening. Maybe it would be better for you and your kids if you put in place a visitation schedule.

Just my thoughts.

[inpain]

Hi Rouky! It is fabulous to hear from you! I really value your opinion so much!

I don't want to be the devil's advocate but if you were D and lived in two different households, would you allow your H to come and stay in your house every night?

No, you're right, I wouldn't even be letting him in the house at all! This is something that is on my mind constantly. I know that it cannot continue, I guess I am just too scared to push for anything else.

He doesn't seem to have lost nothing as you pointed out the only difference is not him being there in the evening. Maybe it would be better for you and your kids if you put in place a visitation schedule.

Yes, you are right Rouky. My Mum says he has lost nothing but his responsibilities. He is cherry picking all the nice bits with the kids and having none of the responsibility of looking after them. It is like he thinks this 'new normal' that he has created is actually how divorced people live. He seems to see nothing wrong with the situation. I know I need to take the initiative and do something to change it but I am not sure how to handle it. Sometimes I think he is thinking of reconciling, with the dinner date last week, for example, but then in between times I hear nothing from him via text etc. H used to text me all the time when we were together.

My Mum thinks he is just trying to push and push and push until I 'do the dirty work' of putting in place a schedule so that he can then file for D and blame it all on me pushing him.

[ciluzen]

Hey, IP. You've been so kind to drop in and check on me- I thought I'd return the favor. I can see how much stronger you are in your posts!

It might be time to get tough. Do you think you are ready? Go ahead and do the "dirty work" as your mum said. So he files for D and blames you. "Pushing him" to not be a lump in the chair and actually step up to being a parent isn't really legit grounds for D. Anyway, how is that so different than now? He'll still have a schedule and have to support his family. The gestures of doing the workbook and "dating" must mean something to him or he wouldn't even attempt it. Setting up a schedule and not being a doormat might just wake up the respect for you that he seems to be missing. Of course he might lash out like a spoiled brat forced to clean his room first, but what have you got to lose? Him?

I, personally, would love to see you take the reins in this situation and drive HIS cart for a bit. I think you are strong enough.

[Rouky]

IP I fully agree with Ciluzen, I think you need to drive the car now. I fully understand how scared you might be, but I guess for your own sake you have to do it. I was dreading to go for separation but I didn't have the choice as once my house sold there would have been nothing that I could have used as leverage. I was worried that it'd ruin my change of saving my M, it hasn't as nothing has changed.

What could be the worst case scenario? He has ready left you, him filing for divorce I'm not too sure as it costs a lot, even if he does you are already living separately so it's a kind of D isn't it?
Think about your kids and it affects them, and how it affects you. You are the most important person right now, and I'd not be so harsh if I didn't consider you as a friend. Please do what is right for you at the present moment.

Thinking of you (((((((hugs))))))))