14 days of sheer hell STILL continues

[MoveFrwd]

I was apologizing to myself for not being able to focus on myself.

Then why did you feel the need to call her and apologize to her?

[DDJ]

@darknes, i'm still working on the plan for putting my foot down; along with that other introspection. Is it a good thing to try and get her perspective from herself? Or too soon?

I should never have apologised, and i apologise to myself for that. I will make sure that it never happens again. I must stay strong.

[CWOL]

DDJ,
I think you are really getting caught up in words and semantics. Focus on action instead.
Action speaks louder than words.

[DDJ]

So today was a watershed moment, feel free to step all over it pls.

So WW came home, we had sex, immediately afterwards she gets up, starts balling her eyes out like there's no tomorrow. I;ve not seen her ball like that ever. Naturally i bring up cheating and get shot down. Instead she says...

WW - I was trying to feel something, but i just don't feel the same way about you, I don't think that I will anymore
ME - Thats ok, you're looking for feelings in the wrong place. Those feelings that you had for me are gone. You will not find it again, do not hold on to it.
WW - But i was trying so hard and I could not feel anything (sic)
ME - You need to let it go, all those 10 years, let it go. Put it in the past because it is not there anymore.
WW - But if i'm not in love with you then how can i try to make this marriage work.
ME - There is no marriage, there is no us. What we need to do is work on building trust. I am not in love with you either, i've been killing those feelings for the last month. What we had was just sex, and if you're looking for more, then you are not going to find it.

She said that she had to then have a divorce and i likened that decision as its now 4:55, i'm not in love you, so I need to be divorced by 5pm. Which is clearly nonsensical. It appears she is going to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

So for now, the tension is gone, she's willing to forget the past. Its like a weight has been lifted off both our shoulders. What it means is that she can longer throw items of resentment at me, from 7 years ago. Its a total new start, not for us, but for each one individually.

I need to make sure that I stay out of the friend zone and i have reaffirmed by cheating boundary. On her way out she stated "it is okay for us to kiss and hug hello and goodbye?" to which i responded, "yes, but i'm not going to initiate it."

[DDJ]

and then my WW wife decides that shes going to stay out and not come back to put our S4 to sleep at 9pm. I called her asking where she was, and she said that her plans had changed. I said "thats not good enough, you cannot just change your plans and be selfish. Your son was waiting for you. It is is my job to tell you when you're not doing things properly, otherwise you will think its ok, the old H is dead, and I will not accept that type of behaviour".

I think that that counts as putting my foot down... I got a remorseless TM saying sorry once more, for what its not worth.

[MoveFrwd]

OK. Time to step back and re-evaluate.

What are your goals?

Are the following things getting you closer or farther from them?
- saying "I am not in love with you either, i've been killing those feelings for the last month."
- continuing to hug and kiss
- sending controlling text messages


It reads to me like you think you can control her/this. You keep telling her YOUR plan like she NEEDS to do the same thing. Al you are doing is pushing her away. Just let her do her own thing. Set your boundaries and protect yourself. But stop trying to put your boundaries around her.

I wasnt telling you to put your foot down. I was tying to understand what it meant. If you think sending these bossy, demanding, guilting TMs is "putting your foot down" effectively, I have to disagree.

Set boundaries around you. Protect yourself. Those are the keys. She is out while your son wants to go to bed? Say "Sorry, mommy's out now. Lets do something awesome instead before bedtime." Telling her what you think is or isnt acceptable is a waste of your breath....she isnt listening anyway.

[DDJ]

My goals.

1 - Detach from my WW. Still having issues, can't stop checking tracking device tho. I am able to distance well, but not detach. I need to focus more on me.
2 - improve myself. Start gym, GAL and be happy with where my life is heading, for me and my son.
3 - start appreciating the small things in life

I think that saying I'm not in love with her anymore is like saying, that I'm moving forward. The past is in the past.
As for the hugging and kissing, is that not her pursuing, or is it cake eating?

I like to think that I'm letting her do her own thing.i don't tell her where to go or what to do anymore. I validate where I can and affirm elsewhere.

Are those TMs not a boundary? I'm having trouble understanding them, I know that they're for me.like the cheating one, what else could be a boundary? So goal 4 is to put in place good boundaries.

[DDJ]

So its 2am where I am, and my WW is still out with friends.and she just sent me this unsolicited SMS:

"Just wanted you to know that i'm still out with friends. I am not drinking (she's on antibiotics and driving) and still very much fine and not to worry i'm going to work later in the morning." just now, "leaving the place now". I replied "drive safe"

I do believe that she is coming around to me, I know though that i'm losing focus of the end-game here. Book still set for delivery 23 May!

So i need all the help i can get. I actually get this whole GAL thing, as she's also doing it, in her own way. We don't spend time together anymore, and I miss her. ITS MY TURN TOMORROW NIGHT :-)

[dream]

From the detachment thread... first post:

"What is detachment?

Detachment is the:
* Ability to allow people, places or things the freedom to be themselves.
* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix another person from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.
* Giving another person "the space" to be herself.
* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with people.
* Willingness to accept that you cannot change or control a person, place or thing.
* Developing and maintaining of a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life.
* Establishing of emotional boundaries between you and those people you have become overly enmeshed or dependent with in order that all of you might be able to develop your own sense of autonomy and independence.
* Process by which you are free to feel your own feelings when you see another person falter and fail and not be led by guilt to feel responsible for their failure or faltering.
* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing or controlling.
* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective and recognizing that there is a need to back away from the uncontrollable and unchangeable realities of life.
* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to experience greater emotional devastation from having hung on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
* Ability to let people you love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to practice tough love and not give in when they come to you to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
* Ability to allow people to be who they "really are" rather than who you "want them to be."
* Ability to avoid being hurt, abused, taken advantage of by people who in the past have been overly dependent or enmeshed with you.

I think the key points in bold are areas you should focus on when thinking about detachment.

Goal 2 - do you have specific things that you're going to do to improve yourself, besides go to the gym? How often will you go to the gym? Maybe an interesting club or something to join? Or a fun activity to do with your son?

Hugging and kissing - as long as OM is in the picture or in her mind, it's cake-eating.

You say you don't tell her what to do anymore, yet you texted her and said "you can't change your plans..." Those TMs are not a boundary. You can only enforce boundaries for yourself. You can't place them on other people. I'm not sure what your boundary is in the TM about your W not being home to put your son to bed. You can't force her to do to anything she doesn't want to do. Also from what I understand, it was her night out, and your night in.

From the boundaries thread post #3:

An example of a boundary and how to enforce it.

Boundary: I will no longer let someone yell at me on the phone.

Enforcing a boundary: When someone starts yelling at me, I will calmly end the conversation. "Let's talk about this tomorrow when we can speak more calmly." "I don't like the names you are calling me. We can talk tomorrow." Then you hang up.. you don't wait for the person to say, "O.K., fine," nor do you get into a debate. You hang up. The person doesn't necessarily have to understand your position or agree with it. This isn't about communication right now. This is about your boundary. Two different things.

Hope that helps you when figuring out what boundaries you want to set up for yourself. There's a ton of good information about boundaries in that thread. boundaries: cheat sheet

[DDJ]

1 - yes, that about sums up my detachment issues - its now 4am, i've just awoken again and shes not home still. She's out with a safe crowd tho but i'm still anxious. I hate this feeling, but i need to feel it, crying just a little for what i'm losing and will continue to lose. I really want her to be happy. I really want me to be detached. It was not really her night out, as she had that yesterday, but since i'm out the rest of the long wknd, i can't blame her.

2 - Well, I go watch rugby, movies, hang out with my cousins, brothers and friends that i have not spent time with in years, to reconnect. I like driving and plan on driving round the peninsula this wknd too. Stopping to see the touristy sites and take in the splendour of Gods creations. I plan to go to gym at least 3 or 4 times a week. It will help me sleep better too, which is not as bad as tonight. It's really 2 bad days where I could not detach.

I don't think OM is in the picture anymore, I cannot be sure, I really don't care. I have detached regarding that at least. I will test her resolve regarding OM and see, but I do not want to hand out any cake.

3 - so a boundary for tonight would be "if my WW changes plans, then I will ensure that it does not get to me. She is out of my space and therefore not impacting on me". Which is actually not even a boundary, that's detachment... If she were impacting on me (which is why i'm getting the second car) then I would need to put in place a real boundary. I'm going to need to read more definitely.

I am forever indebted to you all for your help, regardless as to whether it saves my M. I love learning and everyday has a class test, which i usually fail :-) But i'm back in class the next day. Facing my Tiger!