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BluWave Offline OP
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V! I am practically speechless! I have always loved reading your posts, and now you have given me so much to think about. I cannot thank you enough.

Today is a very busy day for me, but I will come back to this and read it again and again. And then I will read it again down the road. Again. This is a huge eye opener for me. ... I knew I came back here for a reason.

Thank you!
-Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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Blu, if I may, what was the "temp checking" that your H was doing right before he came back? I am curious about how guilt played a big part in your H's emotional state.

My H has sent a couple very guilty texts (Do you hate me?, etc.), then silence for a week, now a missed phone call (while I was in class), which when I called him back it went straight to VM.

Others have said it is just guilt and doesn't mean anything, but how is this different from a "temp check"?

Appreciate you being so helpful to everyone, your posts have been very welcome and a true eye opener for us!


Me:33 H:34
T: 3yrs M: 2yrs
H depression triggered and we are "unhealthy": 7/15
H wants to "make it work" 12/28
BD: 3/10/16
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Originally Posted By: BluWave
V! I am practically speechless! I have always loved reading your posts, and now you have given me so much to think about. I cannot thank you enough.

Today is a very busy day for me, but I will come back to this and read it again and again. And then I will read it again down the road. Again. This is a huge eye opener for me. ... I knew I came back here for a reason.

Thank you!
-Blu


Blu there are three things really that I would say to lurkers (and I lurked for 5 months or so before signing up) reading and lurking will help generally as obviously reading the books DR and DB (essential). It won't help with your own sitch. The second thing is posting for self and to others is grounding and the route to detachment and healing. There is very little else that will do the work other than doing the work.

The very last thing is that just because your spouse wants out of the M and is having an A to transition out of their M doesn't mean they are in MLC, it means they want out of their M and can be immature within the context of M, unsuitable for M. They want to walk away and are in an interim A to get the support to do so. Others like my XWH behave abusively and have MLC, like having malaria and a broken leg. Being addictive and or abusive is the most damaging of all to an M, personality failures indicate that we should run not walk. Seeking MLC as a reason for failure canot hold back posters and the only way to know is to post and receive feedback.

There is nothing like your tribe to help you on your journey, and that won't build until you post for self and others. It is accepting that you need help with your sitch and an important first step to shift.

So Blu, congratulations on the first steps to rebuilding you.

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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BluWave Offline OP
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Thank you, V. You are correct. I very much value your perspective and wisdom.

I read DR and I lurked for a couple years, but did not have the courage to post. I thought that reading was enough. I can see now how posting and even giving feedback to others is what is most helpful. Even in this last week--as I am posting on others' threads--I am finding that it is giving me a better perspective into my own sitch. Am I really following my own advice? So if you are lurking and thinking about posting--why not try, what do you really have to lose?

I am also finding that I am really thinking about everyone's questions and they are not easy to answer! For example, was my H in a MLC? I am not even sure how to answer that because I still don't know. How can one even be sure? I guess I thought of the term MLC as more of an "excuse" for bad behavior, ie, if the behavior is due to an MLC, they are undoubtedly not in a competent state of mind, therefore it is somehow more forgivable. I am not an expert on this subject though. So, how dose one even define a MLC?

Also, in terms of how did I know he was temp checking vs feeling guilty? Another hard one to answer and if I asked him now, he may not even have known why he was doing what he was doing. He was thick in the fog and always guilt ridden. But I can say, that there were plenty of times he felt extremely guilty for his behavior, but he did it anyway! He was scared, he was desperate, and he was clinging to this A because it seemed like the only person that still cared for him.

Also, the guilt did not parallel him wanting me back. There were times that he missed me and what we had and there were times that he was very angry at me and wanted to run. I did not DB well until the end, and I certainly tried to make his life miserable while he was gone. Independent of his feelings towards me and our M, he still new the A was wrong and felt guilty. He also knew that his "nice guy" image was gone, and so he had a major identity crisis. I think in some ways he is still coping with that.

Keep the hard questions coming folkd, it's really got me thinking!
-Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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Blu, thanks again for sharing, you story is truly inspiring. I have a few questions if you are ok sharing more:

It sounds like you had the kids full time during S. Is this correct?

How did you deal with the loneliness while S?

How often did you make contact with H while S?


Me37 W33
T:8 M:5
D3
BD 11/2015
EA+PA w boss 12/2015
S 3/2016

Im stronger because I had to be
Im smarter because of my mistakes
happier because of the sadness Ive known
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Originally Posted By: 1gr8dad
Blu, thanks again for sharing, you story is truly inspiring. I have a few questions if you are ok sharing more:

It sounds like you had the kids full time during S. Is this correct?

How did you deal with the loneliness while S?

How often did you make contact with H while S?


Hi 1gr8dad.

Sure, no prob!

I stayed in our home and the kids were there most of the time. He still saw them often and at least every other day. He would see them at the house, he would take them to his parents, and he would check in at least every 1-2 days. It was still hard on the kids. He stayed with friends, OW, and his parents, and it became tiresome and burdensome for him not to have a stable home. This really wore him down. I was also resentful that he would spend time here with the kids because that meant for me having to leave and coming home after bedtime. I didn't want to be around here while he was here with the kids, and I knew he was running off to OW, so I had to create distance to protect myself. It was no way to live.

Dealing with the loneliness was hard. The hardest part was that it was associated with fear--fear that my family would be broken forever, fear that I would lose my home and financial stability, and fear that my kids would have more troubles. I also had a lot of shame around his A and walked around wondering who knew. So I dealt with the loneliness by GAL, spending as much time with family and friends as I could, keeping busy, and being open to new friendships. I had many sleepless nights though. Looking back, I wish I had not been so hard on myself. I really allowed my sitch to destroy me and my sense of self. I had zero confidence in what I was doing; and you know what? I did a pretty good job of managing it all!

So we were in contact quite often. An email schedule at least once a week. A couple texts and calls a week, mainly about the kids or bills. It was really hard. I tried to DB, but often would get upset and lash out. I knew he was overwhelmed with guilt and so I stuck it to him and reminded him what a POS he was whenever I could. Sigh.

-Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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Originally Posted By: BluWave


Dealing with the loneliness was hard. The hardest part was that it was associated with fear--fear that my family would be broken forever, fear that I would lose my home and financial stability, and fear that my kids would have more troubles. I also had a lot of shame around his A and walked around wondering who knew. So I dealt with the loneliness by GAL, spending as much time with family and friends as I could, keeping busy, and being open to new friendships. I had many sleepless nights though. Looking back, I wish I had not been so hard on myself. I really allowed my sitch to destroy me and my sense of self. I had zero confidence in what I was doing; and you know what? I did a pretty good job of managing it all!

So we were in contact quite often. An email schedule at least once a week. A couple texts and calls a week, mainly about the kids or bills. It was really hard. I tried to DB, but often would get upset and lash out. I knew he was overwhelmed with guilt and so I stuck it to him and reminded him what a POS he was whenever I could. Sigh.

-Blu


Its interesting to me how we go through the stages of grief over the loss, but they are not dead, so we have to also deal with hope. That, I believe, makes the loneliness even worse; the fact that they are still alive, but they have rejected us. We go through another stage where we feel unworthy, puny, unattractive in all ways. At this low point the hope messes with our minds. Hope makes us focus on them.

Fear and shame also visited, but for me (control freak that I am) it came out more as anger. This was a good thing, and came much later. It still flares up quietly when I worry about going to school, finding a new job, moving, and finances. GAL is a great way to deal with this, as you've said. It builds confidence, creates more of a support system, and helps you discover who you are.

The biggest support of all was these boards. Not only did I have people who were going through the same stuff supporting and encouraging me, but there were those that sent 2x4s and truth darts to help me get out of my "poor me" victim mentality. I did have a hand in the downfall of my R. 50% max, but no more. When you finally see what your part was in the issues, it is also devastating. It also gives you a road map to a better you.

Blu, we all let our hope, fear, anger, and loneliness out at our H once in a while. It may not be DBing, but DB is a guide. No one is perfect during a crisis. It even says in the books that if it works, use it. If it doesn't, try something else. I have found that sometimes when I think I've screwed up by venting at H, it seems to open his eyes a bit. Sometimes not. If anything else, it helped me. Sometimes they need to know that you see them being a POS. And are still able to smile and go on from there. If they are feeling guilt it might give them hope that they can be forgiven. At the same time, we've let them know by recognising it and blasting them, that it is a boundary that is not to be crossed again . Or I could be completely wrong. wink

I love reading what you've gone through (though I know it wasn't/isn't enjoyable) because there is so much to learn from your experience. I hope you are able to heal while you're piecing with the help of some of the vets.


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

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Cil, you are right on! When we continue to have hope for the R, we continue to focus on them. The principles of DB are to take the focus off of them, detach, and GAL.

If we can succeed at DB and then they come back, we are more centered and self-assured to enter the difficult stages of piecing. If they never return to the R, we are confident enough to recognize that we deserve better. The end result is that we hope to be a healthier and happier person in general, independent of our Rs. If we can successfully DB, we can learn that it is a way of life and that we can have healthy attachments with those we love and eliminate codependency.

When we fall victim to others we do ourselves a disservice, because we dis-empower ourselves to take control of our life. When we are a victim to others, we remain stuck in a place of self pity and sadness. I think it's more productive to accept our reality, feel the sadness of the situation, and give ourselves permission to let go of it and move forward. One step at a time.

That being said I blew it ALL THE TIME. When H was gone, I would get so upset, beg/cry, lash out, and other times ignore. All the best advice felt impossible to apply when I was knee deep in fear and crisis. So forgiveness is key. We are all human, we all lost it sometimes, but we can control how much we punish ourselves afterwards. And in some of those moments--when I lose all control and really let him have it--I got through to him and left him with a lot to think about.

Keep on keeping on.
-Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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Originally Posted By: BluWave



When we fall victim to others we do ourselves a disservice, because we dis-empower ourselves to take control of our life. When we are a victim to others, we remain stuck in a place of self pity and sadness. I think it's more productive to accept our reality, feel the sadness of the situation, and give ourselves permission to let go of it and move forward. One step at a time.

So forgiveness is key. We are all human, we all lost it sometimes, but we can control how much we punish ourselves afterwards.

Keep on keeping on.
-Blu



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I have also found that hope is not a helpful thing for myself.

I spent the first 3 months actually believing what H said to me in his emails, and it all gave me hope. Because of that, I thought we were piecing, and I did so many things that were wrong! I didn't listen to what I heard here. After decades of trusting H, I just wanted to continue to do so.

The first time I actually heard the "we're over" statement, at the same time I discovered the PA, I was absolutely devastated. It was the first time I realized it really might be true. My family couldn't understand why I suddenly got so much worse, even though they knew what had changed. They didn't understand that before that point I had so much hope.

Instead of learning acceptance and detachment in those first months, all I thought about was him and what I'd done and how I could fix things and how I could keep in contact and, and, and... I'm sure everyone knows the drill. I probably would have done all those things anyway, but I would have had my hope tempered by reality.

These days it's about grieving the marriage that is gone forever. Maybe there will be something in the future with this man, but maybe not. I have no control over that, only over myself.

Off to do some self-care!


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
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