OFP

[OFP]

It'll be tricky with the OFP in place though. He is part of the group of friends.

I think part of me is hoping that I'll accidentally GAL and forget about W. And the D is going through regardless.

[1gr8dad]

But I notice my connection with the kids is growing like you wouldn't believe. I asked my kids if they enjoy spending time with me, even though it is not at home, even though they don't have the toys they are used to, even though their dad is kind of an emotional mess. They said "yes, you spend a lot more time with us than mom does." I talk to them, I make them feel safe sharing their feelings, and then I do things directly with them.

Wow, that's truly AMAZING!
You must be super proud about that - how old are they?

A few weeks ago I was putting every effort into detaching, picking through things trying to find the negatives, in an effort to give up. It was working. Then my IC tells me, that after meeting with W, my IC thinks W will grow, learn that I was not to blame for her problems, she'll own them as her own, and become a much better person. And that I should not close the door completely, or I'll miss out on an incredible opportunity. That the kids will continue to draw us together. I can't believe how far this set me back. A few days later a friend tells me the same thing. Which lead me here....

I completely understand how thing can set you back. Welcome to the roller-coaster ride of Separation! I think we should never give up hope, especially for the kids. But we need to put that hope into a safe box and pack it way back in a safe place. Your friend and IC may or may not be right. Don't let their feedback allow you to get stuck. Keep the focus on you.

What if tomorrow she did want to come back. Are you ready? Is she ready? How have you each changed or learned from what happened? Do this work now as a solo partner.

Also WRG to snooping for a potential A, while I respect CWOLs perspective, I will share mine. I feel snooping efforts is a sign that you are not detaching. I think that if by chance you discover she is seeing an OM, it would set you back further.

Speaking for myself in my sitch, I know my discovery of my WW having sex with her boss in our bed really effed me up. I would have preferred to be happily ignorant. I'm sure the discovery had slowed my healing and recovery down dramatically. Just MHO.

Stay focused on YOU MAN.

[Zephyr]

Good morning ofp,

i read through your situation and it is all too familiar when dealing with a woman or a man who has been abused and severely neglected as a child.

Clearly we do not know her whole background, nor do i think you will ever really know what has gone on with her life. yes you have been there for her, you were her white knight who saved her from that past...but she never faced what happened and it has finally caught up to her.

Right now and for the foreseeable future, there is no effort you can take that will DIRECTLY repair your marriage or snap your wife back to the woman you remember. When everything is said and done, you will be a different person and hopefully she will be too.

I don't say this to discourage you, rather to open your eyes to a silver lining...you have a chance here to rediscover who you are and what you were meant to be as a man.

Right now you are in need for some mental gymnastics to understand that what has happened was not something you could have ever changed...maybe the story would have been a little different or some details...but you did not hurt her like she is treating you. It will take some time for this, but I promise that truth is something you will have to come to terms with to move forward.

What does that mean...time to turn the focus off of your wife. She is begging for time and space away from you and has literally gotten the law involved to make that happen.

So...(in total agreement with One Grate Dad) focusing on you. What does that look like. It starts with getting a life. Gal is going to be your biggest ally her. Learning to enjoy your existence on this earth. You are going to shed those old introvert scales and walk among the living. Finding new and interesting activities, hobbies you used to love, new exciting ones, rediscover long ago neglected friendships, new encounters & friends, adventure...you are literally starting a new life.

You are going to start looking at your life and seeing those behaviors that are not who you want to be. Effectively you and your wife turned you into a caretaker...someone who was willing to sacrifice yourself for her happiness...you likely based so much of your worth on this. I will let you on a secret...it would have never been enough. She would never been satisfied no matter how hard you worked and you ultimately would have lost yourself in the process.

So you really need to start looking at these behaviors that you don't like about yourself...were you controlling, i will lay money you had lots of controlling tendencies, likely not to the extent she is making out to be, but men and women with abused backgrounds are hypersensitive to being controlled. There are a number of books you can read on the subject...codependency no more; no more mr nice guy are just two that spring to mind.

As you start on your journey...you will see other behaviors that you do not like. These changes in you that i will be excited to read about from you...will be the backbone to your new and improved self. You are going to learn how to love
..free of strings.

Have you read any of cadets links? Have you read the db / dr books? There is a whole other forum topic about mlc...that would be another really awesome place to start.

Wow, maybe too much info to get going...but it is difficult for me to type small...one of my flaws

EXTREME Self-care, finding the man you want to be and stopping any pressure on your wife...that is your mission right now. I have not mentioned saving your marriage, i will tell you this...your marriage cant be saved right now - not with things as they are...there is always hope...and your wife has a struggle that she needs to go through before that can happen (so do you). first you need to work on yourself. You need to learn how to love yourself. You need to learn how to enjoy your life. How to be the best father you can, how to live for you, how to be strong in the midst of the storm, how to be the man only a fool would leave.

You have time. Learn to appreciate those things in your life which help keep you alive. Keep working hard, keep focus on your relationship with your kids...that cannot slip here, they need you too now more than ever. Go give your parents a huge hug and thank them for helping you through this. I always said i'd never go back home to my folks house...but that is BS, your strength to do that has opened my eyes to that...so thank you!

I am truly sorry this has happened to you and your family. I wish for you that the pain will all go away, and it can certainly if you work towards it...it first take a step towards the new you, so start with some goals, getting out and looking at what you can start with on GAL and self-improvement!!!

Side Note, Individual counseling will eventually need to come into play for you, to help decompress from all of this. Hopefully you can find someone who is familiar with adolescent abuse and the impacts as adults.

A great way to help on this is journaling so you can see your own progress and to help get things out of your head (like I am sure you have been holding there for years) and learn to express yourself.

Mark

[GWH]

If you suspect there is then there probably is OM. I agree with CWOL, and think you should find out for sure.

[OFP]

Wow, that's truly AMAZING!
You must be super proud about that - how old are they?

S11 D9
I do feel good about my increased connection with the kids. That is one of the things I have learned from reading about and talking to others who have gotten D, that if it hadn't happened, they never would have gotten so close to their kids. I just wish there was a different wake-up call that wasn't so traumatic!

What if tomorrow she did want to come back. Are you ready? Is she ready? How have you each changed or learned from what happened? Do this work now as a solo partner.

I felt ready the day she left... I wanted to work through this process with her. I thought that weekly meetings with a MC, even if that was our only contact during that period, would have been hugely beneficial. I think it would have helped bring truth to her mind. I fear the truth will never be acknowledged otherwise. And maybe that is exactly the problem, I want to take control of the situation? I don't want to wait for W to come to her own conclusion? Part of my "fixer" attitude?

Thank you very much for taking time to read my story and respond, it is helpful!

[Zephyr]

Sorry, missed one topic...

In regards to 'finding out whether there is someone else':

be very careful here and consider all advice that is given to you in direct regard to your situation. you have an order for protection against you...do you think it is wise to consider looking into your wife's whereabouts or business right now.

How does you worrying about that right now affect your ability to detach from your wife...or to drop the rope as we say? In your immediate future on working on your side of the fence, what difference does it make if there is or is not another person? (I'm not trying to get into a semantics debate about whether or not knowing will help or hurt your chances in the future I am only saying that while you are getting on with making YOURSELF WHOLE, what difference does it make what she is doing).

In some states this behavior or snooping / checking on her with an OFP is called STALKING...be wary that you do not give her any reason to limit your access to your children, OK.

This is not easy, I really understand that. I also understand not KNOWING exactly what is going on...you need to focus on you right now.

[OFP]

Good morning ofp,
i read through your situation and it is all too familiar when dealing with a woman or a man who has been abused and severely neglected as a child.

I am impressed you actually read the whole story, and your response is all the more genuine because of it, I appreciate that!

Clearly we do not know her whole background, nor do i think you will ever really know what has gone on with her life....maybe the story would have been a little different or some details...but you did not hurt her like she is treating you. It will take some time for this, but I promise that truth is something you will have to come to terms with to move forward.

Thank you for this also... I spent the first 4 months really beating myself up over analyzing everything I ever said to her and what I could have done different.

Finding new and interesting activities, hobbies you used to love, new exciting ones, rediscover long ago neglected friendships, new encounters & friends, adventure...you are literally starting a new life.

Definitely struggling here, but also definitely connecting with old friends. Finding activities is the hardest part.

You are going to start looking at your life and seeing those behaviors that are not who you want to be. Effectively you and your wife turned you into a caretaker...someone who was willing to sacrifice yourself for her happiness...you likely based so much of your worth on this. I will let you on a secret...it would have never been enough. She would never been satisfied no matter how hard you worked and you ultimately would have lost yourself in the process.

This part rings true with recent realizations.... I agree 100%, it never would have been enough.

So you really need to start looking at these behaviors that you don't like about yourself...were you controlling, i will lay money you had lots of controlling tendencies, likely not to the extent she is making out to be, but men and women with abused backgrounds are hypersensitive to being controlled. There are a number of books you can read on the subject...codependency no more; no more mr nice guy are just two that spring to mind.

I actually already have the book "codependence no more" and started reading it, though I have not finished. I stopped when it became too painful to read. At the place I am at now, I may start reading again. From what I did read, it was clear that we had both played a serious role in it, not just one of us. She was very much looking for leadership when she was unable to make decisions on her own. I was controlling in trying to encourage/force her to make wise decisions.

As you start on your journey...you will see other behaviors that you do not like. These changes in you that i will be excited to read about from you...will be the backbone to your new and improved self. You are going to learn how to love
..free of strings.

Already over-analyzed, and for the last month or two have stopped. I don't have a relationship that triggers these issues, never have, except for dealing with the W. I keep thinking that I could have a better relationship, with someone more like myself. But they will never be the mother of my children, and that keeps me holding on.

Have you read any of cadets links? Have you read the db / dr books? There is a whole other forum topic about mlc...that would be another really awesome place to start.

Read most of Cadet's links, all that seemed applicable. No on the DB/DR books. WAY too much reading about MLC, some on this site, some on "loveanyway" site, and general research on the web.

Wow, maybe too much info to get going...but it is difficult for me to type small...one of my flaws

Don't worry, you aren't going to overwhelm me with typing... as you can probabaly tell from my posts!

EXTREME Self-care, finding the man you want to be and stopping any pressure on your wife...that is your mission right now. I have not mentioned saving your marriage, i will tell you this...your marriage cant be saved right now - not with things as they are...there is always hope...and your wife has a struggle that she needs to go through before that can happen (so do you).

I am struggling with the lack of there being something I can/should do. At this point we are absolutely not co-parenting. There are no pressing issues, but wondering if I should be taking a more aggressive approach at keeping her up to speed in what I am seeing in the children, and asking what she is seeing. So far her responses have been limited or none.

Side Note, Individual counseling will eventually need to come into play for you, to help decompress from all of this. Hopefully you can find someone who is familiar with adolescent abuse and the impacts as adults.

Already talking to an IC. Lots of time spent talking about W and her past. IC is encouraging me to stop letting W drive my bus!

A great way to help on this is journaling so you can see your own progress and to help get things out of your head (like I am sure you have been holding there for years) and learn to express yourself.

HUNDREDS of pages typed so far!

[OFP]

In regards to 'finding out whether there is someone else'

Yep noted, and most of what has kept me from checking. Plus the only time something might be going on, is when I am with the children, who need/deserve my attention.

[OFP]

Thoughts for the day...

6 months in, I try to convince myself I am better off without her... But it just won't stick, I really enjoyed our life. Despite her depression, we had a lot of fun together, amazing how many things we did. She made the comment after leaving that she did all the things I wanted to do. Really? I don't remember it being that way. She was a tomboy, and liked the same things before we met that I did.

I was just talking to a previous neighbor, he was saying he was always kind of envious of me and W, because we were always doing so much with the kids, and seemed to him we were always doing something fun together. Yep, seemed that way to me too.

She complained to my mom after leaving that I never said she was pretty. So, I feel guilty as hell about this one, but it's because she isn't. Guess I shoulda lied to make her feel good? I didn't know this was a big deal to her. She didn't tell me I was handsome either. So I didn't think anything of it. But my mom said she remembered telling W she looked nice one time, and W just lit up.

Another thought... She drifted further and further after she filed the OFP. From talk like she was interested in reconciling, to not sure, to thinking not, to "no way." What's up with that? I don't suppose me sending D paperwork helped any, but I was in a position I had to do something to protect myself and get part of my life back, and she was showing no signs of coming back. I probably should have filed sooner.

Then I remember what the last year together was like. Her telling the kids I am mean to them, her having more and more outside the house activities with the kids, sleeping and being tired even more, getting less done, dazing and it being hard to get her attention. I assume some of this is related to her saying a couple weeks before leaving that her antidepressants are off.

I am not saying I was perfect either... I have learned some things since she left, and working on them, and she knows this... But doesn't care.

[OFP]

Had a good weekend with the kids. Did some reading while they played videos games or watched a movie... Fairly active with them otherwise.

I was reading about pursuer vs. distancer. I went through the list, she met most of the pursuer traits fairly well. I met a couple criteria for distancer, a couple I'm not sure (hard to self-alanyze), some no way. Some of them were swapped between us ironically. Still more self-reflection to do I guess.

Once the kids were gone, I became angry again. We had a great life, I thought we got along fairly well, and she is throwing it away, viscously. How to cope with that anger? Obviously can't fight it. Try to distract it, or just grind through it?

Self-talk... I thought again through life with her, living with her depression, her never being happy. The fact that she rarely directly interacted with the kids but I sure did a lot. Her laziness. Her stupidity. Do I focus on what I didn't like about her? Or focus on not focusing on her at all?

And like I posted in bluwave's thread, do I want her to come crawling back only for revenge reasons? So she can become the LBS and feel the pain she caused me? To keep the kids from her for a while so she can see what it is like? Have her come back and be a slave while I go out and GAL for a while?

Another thing I have yet to find, maybe someone can answer for me... I know every sitch is different, but how often do WAW's or WW's or MLCer's come back?

I have talked to 17 people going through divorce and keeping score:

13 out of 17 are LBS as the other person left for an affair. What is this world coming too? And why is it that everyone I know is the LBS in these? Does it have to do with the class of people I talk to, they are good people who made poor decisions in a spouse?

Out of the 13, 5 came back. Out of the 5, 4 didn't work out and 1 is still piecing almost 4 years after BD with a boomerang.

Out of the 13, I believe 3 are still with OP, might be less, one has only been a year so may still fail.

Out of the 13, 8 or more of the LBS's say their ex is "still screwed up" emotionally many years later, their ex never did find what they were searching for and/or realized how much they screwed up by leaving. This part gives me hope, I hope she ends up miserable without me, and can stew about that for the rest of her life.

The encouraging part, of the 13 LBS's I talked to, 10 did GAL very successfully, 2 are still in the early stages, and the 1 poor soul I mentioned is piecing after 4 years I think I pity the most, he has by far gone through the most heartache. He tried to GAL, stays busy, tried dating but couldn't do it.