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Esame Offline OP
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Sorry the post was not submitted properly the first time so I copied and pasted so it's partly duplicated


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





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Esame Offline OP
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I just remembered something else:

Apparently he believes that he has caused my depression in the past and he feels that he doesn't want to hurt me any more. That made me feel delusional, like I was in another relationship, not the one he was describing. How do I show the man that until his BD five months ago I was happy with him? Things were not perfect, but our relationship was not the problem. And one of the reasons why he feels that way? My wonderful "friend" told him I made complaints and was upset about his gaming! Seriously I need to find out who tells him that stuff.


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





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Hi Esame - I just caught up. Oh, I remember all that confusion of those early days. I understand how tiring it is!

The MLCer completely re-writes history. You know that, right? They tell themselves all sorts of astounding things and actually believe them to be true.

I don't believe you can tell him anything to really convince him otherwise. You can validate his feelings and say "I am sorry you feel that way." This will show him you are listening. You could try to say "I am sorry you feel that way, but I don't agree with your opinion of my feelings." But be careful to use this 2nd statement very sparingly otherwise it'll seem like you're arguing which will just convince him more that you don't get along.

They are very confused. They have very short attention spans so they can't focus on a conversation for too long. That's why he seems like a zombie. Keep conversations very short. Listen if he talks but otherwise try to give him loads of space and time and quiet. There is no point in asking him about what he wants or what he thinks about the marriage. He is too confused to know. And even if he answers "x" today, it will be "y" tomorrow and "123" next week. You can see he is not at all himself, right?

You can be kind and listen, but it's best to take the time away from worrying about him and focus on you. He has to figure it all out on his own.

Hope you get some well deserved rest.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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Esame Offline OP
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Thank you for your reply and the advice HaWho, I really appreciate it.

Originally Posted By: HaWho

They are very confused. They have very short attention spans so they can't focus on a conversation for too long. That's why he seems like a zombie. Keep conversations very short. Listen if he talks but otherwise try to give him loads of space and time and quiet. There is no point in asking him about what he wants or what he thinks about the marriage. He is too confused to know. And even if he answers "x" today, it will be "y" tomorrow and "123" next week. You can see he is not at all himself, right?


You are absolutely right about this, he is not himself. Or he is not who I thought he was.

I thought I was at a good place before THAT night, feeling like I had nothing to lose. However asking him to leave taught me one thing. That even though I have already lost him, my kids have not. And my kids losing their dad (as they know him now) is a hell of a sacrifice for me to make. I know divorce is some times inevitable, and I know kids can grow up happy as long as they know that both parents love them. However in my case with my son's additional needs and being alone in a foreign country with no family or support network, a divorce could be catastrophical! He probably knows it too, and that is why he looked so broken after our conversation. He seemed to be having some sort of an episode. He really needs help, but am I the right person to help?

Originally Posted By: HaWho

You can be kind and listen, but it's best to take the time away from worrying about him and focus on you. He has to figure it all out on his own.


After seeing him so devastated, I'm not sure if he can figure it out on his own. He looked helpless and weak, I don't know how to describe it. I don't know if space is really what I should give him, maybe we need the complete opposite? I think Michelle mentions a "fake it until you make it approach" maybe we need to follow that while we are dealing with the bigger problems? I really don't know. I'm surprised that I'm more upset about the overall situation rather than the fact that he is not in love with me any more, I feel like I' m in a survival mode but around my family, not my feelings. Which is wrong. One day I will be devastated about this, why can I not face it now?


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





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Esame,
You can't fix him. He has to do that. You can treat him w/kindness and be civil to him. Be a good listener, but do not offer advice unless he asks for it. As HaWho has pointed out, when he says something about being unhappy, say "I'm sorry you feel that way" and leave it alone. He's very unhappy w/himself and his life right now and it's not because of you or anything you've done...it all from within and his childhood issues. Again, you can't help him...he has to do the hard work.

Do not attempt to pretzel yourself to make him happy. Be yourself and continue to live your life for you and your children. The less pressure he has right now, the better. The relationship talks are putting pressure on him and he doesn't have any answers that will satisfy you right now. Why? Because he doesn't know what he wants except that he is unhappy. It's not your job to make him happy.

Also, try to remember that if he can't help himself right now, then how can he work on the relationship. Helping himself has to take place first, he needs to figure things out for himself and heal before any work on the relationship can take place. Many of them will say that they are working on the relationship, but in truth, they aren't. We are doing all of the heavy lifting because they think that being civil and maybe still living at home is working on the relationship. They aren't mature enough to connect the dots and realize that it takes two to work on a relationship. Right now, his coping skills are zero. Don't expect to see him "working on the relationship" any time soon. His opinion of how it's being done is very different from yours. That's why it's important to continue on w/your life and if he wakes up, wants to do the hard work to prove to you that he's ready to reconcile, then so be it...but remember, you will ultimately be the one to decide whether to reconcile or not.

Really, the best thing you can do is leave him alone as much as possible. If he joins in w/the family on doing things, treat him as a friend. Conversations should be very light and very short. His attention span is that of a gnat. Keep your expectations at zero and unless you really want him to move out, don't bring up moving out...it has to be his idea.

Dealing w/mlc is not for the faint of heart. It is a marathon, not a sprint...detach a bit more and try to keep the focus on you and your children. The less pressure your h is under, the better...just leave him alone as much as possible. Truly you are doing him a favor by doing so.


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Originally Posted By: Esame
I just remembered something else:

Apparently he believes that he has caused my depression in the past and he feels that he doesn't want to hurt me any more. That made me feel delusional, like I was in another relationship, not the one he was describing. How do I show the man that until his BD five months ago I was happy with him? Things were not perfect, but our relationship was not the problem. And one of the reasons why he feels that way? My wonderful "friend" told him I made complaints and was upset about his gaming! Seriously I need to find out who tells him that stuff.



My H still tells me he made me miserable, that my best chance at happiness is to not be with him, that I really didn'the like him (just didn'the realize it yet), and that he'should tired of hurting me. Hawthorne and Job are right. The MLCer rewrites history. You can'take convince them otherwise. My daughter even tried to tell my H she saw nothing but love between us (from both of us) until he turned his attention elsewhere. It's fruitless.

All you can do is be understanding. Patient. And focus on your goals. Listen, learn, but try to let the rewrites just blow on by. That'said just them trying to justify behavior that actually goes against what they know is not right. Move forward with you and your goals.


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

Kindness, kindness, kindness.
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Esame Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: ciluzen

All you can do is be understanding. Patient. And focus on your goals. Listen, learn, but try to let the rewrites just blow on by. That'said just them trying to justify behavior that actually goes against what they know is not right. Move forward with you and your goals.


Thanks Ciluzen.

I'm trying to be patient, but I'm struggling with the silence. We are both struggling with confrontation, so after that horrible night three days ago we haven't spoken about it at all. I messaged him on the morning after, and he said that we should talk that night, but that's it. It feels like I'm back at high school dating a teenager that is so immature that he cannot speak about what he wants. It's like we are ignoring the elephant in the room, but how could we continue like that?

Thankfully we have a break coming up for the summer holidays, the kids and I will be spending the summer with my family and H will visit us for a few days.

It is so hard, as Ciluzen said, it's fruitless...


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





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Esame,
You can't rush/push the process along. You are dealing w/a child in a man's body right now. To be perfectly honest w/you...maybe at this time he doesn't know what he wants. Maybe that's why he's silent and doesn't want to talk right now. Don't text him again about discussing that night. Like a kid, he knows that things didn't go well, but right now, he needs for you not to remind him of it. Yes, it's called sweeping it under the rug, but MLCers do not want to discuss such things. At some point, you will be given the opportunity to open the door on discussing that night...but right now...be patient and leave him alone.

When your h is ready, he'll contact you again. Some of them tend to wait until they think things are forgotten or settled down before doing so. But until he does...only contact him about the children or in an emergency. When you do have contact, keep to safe subjects.

Esame, you can't rationalize w/someone who is emotional. Your h has to grow up before you can have an "adult" conversation w/him. You are dealing w/a teenager who is actually trying to find himself and his place in the world.

It's difficult, but you can do this. We all have had our moments and have learned that the best way to deal w/them is w/as little contact as possible and when they do come around, treat them in a civil manner, listen and validate. It will become easier in time.

For now, keep the focus on you and your children and the summer holidays. Leave your h to twirl in the wind.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Thank you job, once again your advice is spot on. I suspected that the right thing to do would be to give him space, I just worry so much about us drifting further apart. Then again I worry about many things nowadays, I just need to let go.

I have a busy week planned, it should be lovely. Monday taking the car to the mechanics. On Tuesday I have my final teaching observation and then I 'm going out for lunch with my tutor. On Wednsday I'm traveling to a city around an hour away to meet with an old friend that I haven't seen in three years. She is a strong independent person, exactly what I need more of in my life right now. I booked the tickets already so I don't cancel if I don't feel motivated. And I'm trying to get in as much walking as possible, it is working wonders for me. I lost 4.5 lbs this week and I got a healthier colour. I find it's helping with my low mood too, I definitely feel better.

I think if I continue with my healthy eating and exercise I can be at y target weight by the time we go away, and then I can work on other things that bother me in my appearance when I'm back home.


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





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Posts: 28,295
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Esame,
Worrying about things is only going to give you ulcers and headaches. Sit quietly and the answers will come. Giving him space the best thing you can do for him right now. Try to remember that the more you push/pressure, the more it's likely he'll distance himself from you. When you give them space, many of them tend to gravitate back towards the spouse because they sense that the pressure is off and expectations are low and that's when a friendship can happen...you have to decide whether this is what you want. You can't go back to the old marriage...it's gone and the only way to try to rekindle a reconnection is by starting out as friends.

Your week sounds busy, but I'm sure you and your friend will have a wonderful time together. Go and have some fun. Leave the MLC monster at home and just relax a bit.

Walking is good for you. The more you walk, the better you will feel and yes, the weight will begin to come off too. Be sure to drink plenty of water during your walks.

Enjoy your week! You've got a lot to look forward to.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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