Starting to do things right?

[PacLove]

All great feedback...

A few more points worth considering... most of our fights have been about the A or the R... when I don't bring up either of those we actually have a great time talking.

Pros:
- Daughter is less impacted
- she can see changes in me
- I still get to see her
- Drives a wedge further between her and AP (AP may not like she's going back home!)
- Financial

Cons
- loss of respect? but is it if I make her sleep in other room?
- can be difficult to emotionally detach
- will I see more lies and deceptive behavior..?


We talk a lot about cake eating, is it more about respect that's lost? I'd personally rather have a cordial relationship if I hope to R then one where we are clearly fighting. One of our biggest issues pre BD was that I wasn't flexible, I was controlling and always insisted on my way, so I see this as an opportunity to also show her that I can change a bit and be more flexible with her.

[sandi2]

So question for the group - if given the choice to have a W who's probably having an A as an "in house separation" vs. "Physical separation" what would you go for?

People may get tired of hearing me say this, but I'm going to say it again, anyway. I have been here for 9 years (seldom missing a day) and I do not remember one single case where the in-house separated couple reconciled. The best case scenario is that they are in the friend zone for the rest of their lives, and the worst case is that the WW continues to degrade her soft, passive H by flaunting her waywardness.

My opinion about allowing your WW, who is in an A, to come back into the house to sleep in the spare room is CRAZY!!!

Look, people say, "It will give you a chance to show her all your changes". First of all, allowing her to come back under those conditions will only cause her to disrespect you even more. From what I see in these in-house separations are H's who are under so much stress that it keeps him too torn down to show any changes. You think you'll never disagree or that she'll never do something to really upset you? And second of all, what kind of changes do you plan to show her if she's just sleeping in a spare room and not working on the MR? Are you going to show her what a great friend you are.....while she continues to cheat? Are you going to start throwing down a bunch of boundaries to show her how tough you are? She already knows you aren't tough. She could care less about your boundaries, b/c when you let her back on her terms.....you've already lost any chance of her respecting you as her H. She will manipulate you until you can't possibly deal with her, and you'll become more passive and finally lay down and become a complete doormat.

Never allow the WW back into the house on her terms. She's just wanting an easy ride.....that's all. She doesn't have the finances or wants to spend her money kicking up her heels.

We talk a lot about cake eating, is it more about respect that's lost?

Well, she loses respect for you, but the way I see this is that the WW will never be in a position to feel what she has lost (due to her WW decisions) as long as she gets to have the best of both worlds.

I'd personally rather have a cordial relationship if I hope to R then one where we are clearly fighting.

Let me take a deep breath and try to say this nicely. You don't have a relationship now, and you won't have a cordial relationship if she moves back under her terms. Besides, you don't really want to settle for a cordial R. You want her as your wife! You want to be intimate with her and have a fulfilled life with her. For a woman, love and respect are tied in together. I think it may be different for men, but that's how God made women. Respect for her is like admiration and honor for the man she loves. It is special. It's unique and it's for only one man......the one she wants as her H. Until she can respect you as a man, and as her H.....she will not feel in love with you. Sure, you can be just her friend. Anyone can be her friend. Only one man can hold the position as her H. She'd probably like the idea of you being her friend, since most WW's want to be friends with the man they dumped. But she won't respect & admire you, b/c she knows what she's doing is wrong, and when you let her slide by with treating you badly.....she will NEVER be attracted to you and she will NEVER respect a man who would let someone like her walk all over him. She can lie, manipulate, deceive, put on a front, sleep with him, etc. However, in her heart she does not feel in love with that man. Women must first respect their H, before they can feel in love with him. That is how women are wired. They will test a man for all he's worth, b/c she wants him to be stronger than she is. She wants a man who will look her eyeball to eyeball and put her in her place when she is out of line! She wants a man who is not afraid of her, or pussyfoots around her mood swings, or who never makes a decision and leaves it up to her. She wants a real man. Not some soft soaped nice friend who will let her treat him dirty and then decide they can still be BFF's.

One of our biggest issues pre BD was that I wasn't flexible, I was controlling and always insisted on my way, so I see this as an opportunity to also show her that I can change a bit and be more flexible with her.

Flexible, huh? Boy oh boy, have you gotten your priorities out of order. I suppose accepting her back, knowing full well that she is not remorseful and does not intend to work on the M, and may still be in an affair......is pretty flexible alright. It's not what I'd call it, but then I'm just an ole WW (former).

I am telling you straight out that you are deceiving yourself. You want her back and you are willing to take her any old way, just to have her back in the house with you. So, you are trying to convince yourself, or us, that you should be flexible and accept her waywardness and let her back on her terms. You think you can be her best bud and show her what a wonderful H you can be to her. Right? But it won't work! She will see you only as a friend, and you will continue to see her as your W. You will want to change the friendship to man & wife.....but she won't. Talk about stress!

There is a certain time that the couple can become friends again, but this isn't it.

[roist]

Sandi it amazes me how you can day after day year after year offer such powerful insights often repeating yourself newbie by newbie. Thank you for this great work

[PacLove]

Thanks Sandi... I've drafted an email that basically speaks to being open to her coming home if it's a step towards R but if it's a matter of convenience for her then I don't think it's in either of our best interest or our D's... will sleep on this before sending it to her.

[Cadet]

Thanks Sandi... I've drafted an email that basically speaks to being open to her coming home if it's a step towards R but if it's a matter of convenience for her then I don't think it's in either of our best interest or our D's... will sleep on this before sending it to her.

My suggestion is to post this on the boards before you send it and see what others have to say.

[Cherry]

Paclove I love to see your strength through here. It's really inspiring. The fact you have drafted and are going to think about it, before sending is really commendable. I feel at the moment when I have something on my mind I spew and get angry. Must. Not. Let. My . Emotions. Win

[PacLove]

Thanks Sandi... I've drafted an email that basically speaks to being open to her coming home if it's a step towards R but if it's a matter of convenience for her then I don't think it's in either of our best interest or our D's... will sleep on this before sending it to her.

My suggestion is to post this on the boards before you send it and see what others have to say.

Thanks - I'm hesitant to copy the verbatim email here, as if she ever came across it on here I'd be made... I've also had it proof read by 2 friends and they thought it was good.

In a nutshell the key points are:

- I'm open to her staying at the house, it's her house after all
- I want a relationship with you beyond friend's and roommates, but need to understand why you want to come home, is there a reason beyond finances/D/comfort you want to come home?
- we are either going to work towards R or we aren't, living separately at home I'm not sure how it's in the best interest of D or us
- Don't want to send mixed signals to D and also don't want to push you into something you are not ready for - if its' a matter of convenience then probably not the best choice, if it's a step towards R then I'm open

[1313]

I can say I wish any communications I had with my WW had been given a "time out" to reflect upon them. It's too easy to get caught up in the moment, and to react as more of a reflex.

That said, against DR I sent one email where I finally let my WW have it with both barrels. It did at least get her to pause and reflect. For almost a moment it seemed she might have come around.

But the A is a powerful thing. And, they want it to be. At least a drug addict might think "this is bad for me - I've got to clean up"! Heck, I even got a "I want to stop the D" message, and she told her L to stop it. Then, 24 hours later she said that wasn't what she meant at all. Yeah really, all it took was the OM coming over and talking to her. Made it all better.

That said, I will not communicate with my WW any longer. All I get now are "nice" civil type texts asking for this, that or the other thing. I'm sorry I even helped her the last time I did, as simple a thing that it was. No longer. She asked for a quicken books file this morning, I sent it with no subject line, no text.

If she needs anything else, let the OM figure it out for her.

PacLove, as far as sending that message regarding the R, I'd go through the DR one more time just to make sure that's where you want to go. Seems to me that you're pursuing, and letting her know your feelings. I don't get the sense you've had an "awakening", and a feeling things might be better without her.

Remember, you don't know who this person is. I thought I knew my WW after 35 years. Nope, not a bit. I listened to Sandi but really didn't hear her. I do now.

In my case IF the WW were to want to reconcile, I don't see how it would be possible. Unless she actually could admit that she needs to make a lot of changes. A lot. The person she is now wouldn't do that.

When I got the BD I was more than ready to admit it was all me, I'd be the one to change. Just take me back! Puleeeeze!

No longer. YMMV.

[sandi2]

Thank you, Rosite. You encourage me!

[sandi2]

Pac, please sit on this for at least through the weekend. You are acting on pure needy emotions. This is a time that could work for you if you are smart.

She is temp checking you, don't you get it? This is the time that you can lay out your terms of her coming back to the marital home. I am strongly against a man allowing his W to come back and them sleeping in separate beds. Now understand, most WW's (even the remorseful ones) are not quite ready for sexual intimacy, b/c it takes some adjusting to get the OM out of her head and make ready for her H. However, the two of them need to sleep in the same bed, to slowly establish some emotional closeness/intimacy. If she sleeps in a spare room, you doing a lot more than compromising. This is not being "flexible". It is giving way to what is wrong and setting an inappropriate picture of what a MR should be. This is not what your daughter needs to see and believe this is what M really looks like.

If you do not lay out your terms for her coming back, you may never get her back the way you want her. You are in for a lot of hurt by agreeing to her conditions. Be the head of your home. Set the standard and example. Be the leader in living right.

Your email sounds way too weak and opened to what she wants. You need to state your conditions. Do not say that it's her home too. Although her name may be on the deed, just don't say it. You are giving her way too much power. That's why we needed to see how you are stating the email. But all we can do is try to advise you.