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I would do a spreadsheet to show your h what comes in and what goes out in the way of money/bills. You will need to also factor in a bit of "rainy day" funds for emergencies that can and will crop up during a month.

You don't tell him to move downstairs. You suggest it and let him mull it over. It has to be his decision. Telling him to do so makes you sound like his mother. They are more receptive to suggestions that "telling". Also, I wouldn't put a time limit on re-evaluating the situation. Why? Because he will be counting the days to the 30th and this will come up again. I suggest that you state that "if he does decide to move downstairs, he can always re-evaluate the living arrangements at a later date and discuss them w/you". You have to put this all in his court. You aren't his mother and you can't control what he does.

BTW, if he is h@ll bent on moving, he will find a way to do it, money or not. There's nothing you can do to stop him from moving out. Whether it's a dump or not...he will make the decision as to whether he wants to live there. As for your children, if it is a dump, then you can advise him that it would be better to visit w/them elsewhere due to safety and environmental concerns...but you are jumping too far ahead. Let's see how it plays out this evening.

Remember, you need to give him things to think about and make decisions himself. Also, speak to him as a business associate and do not tell him what to do....you aren't his mother, even though he acts like a spoiled brat at times.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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That is my plan...I am just so emotional right now that I almost need to rehearse this.

Ugh...I am not going to tell him to move downstairs...I will suggest it. However, I feel I need to set boundaries if that is the case. He is still in the house and should be interacting with the kids...again, his choice not mine.

I kind of backslid last night when he told me he told his parents... I tried to get him to think about what he has and how good it is. He just stared at me.

Thank you for the support!! I feel like I am going through hell right now.

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I may not suggest moving downstairs at all. I may just present the bills and let him mull them over and make a decision.

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You will need to remain calm and keep your discussion on point, i.e., short and sweet. He's not going to be able to focus on lengthy discussion and will tune you out. If you get emotional, he will tune you out. Be sure to look him in the eye when you are speaking to him.

If you are going to set boundaries, remember not to come off sounding like his mother and use the "I" word and not "you" and don't point finger of wrong doing to him. Again, that comes off sounding like mom or an authority figure calling him out on his flaws.

You can do this!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Ok...
One boundary I want to set is having him take part in raising the kids..help me phrase it.

If he decides to move downstairs; how do I say that so I am not acting like his mother? Also, if he moves downstairs does that mean I no longer have to cook his meals, do his laundry? etc..

I would like him to stop calling ow (obviously...) but that wouldn't be a boundary I should set right now, correct?

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HaWho is going through the same thing that you are right now and she's handled her situation very well. Her h is living in a room and he cooks some and sometimes eats w/the family. I'm going to ask HaWho to come visit w/you.

You do realize that you can't control him and whether he is participating in the raising of the kids? You may ask him what his plans are for assisting and supporting the girls w/their homework and activities. You may offer to set up a calendar that indicates when the girls have their activities, i.e., date, time and location to assist both of you in keeping them on a schedule.

As for cooking, cleaning, laundry if he moves downstairs, you need to wait and see if he will opt for that move. If he does, then ask him if he's given any thought about how he's going to handle his laundry, cooking and cleaning for himself. If he's going to cook , it will be his responsibility to clean up after himself. You may say that he's more than welcome to have meals w/the family, but that will be up to him. I would venture to say that he won't want to eat w/the family all that often if he moves downstairs.

As for the ow phone calls...nope, you can't set that as a boundary if he's living downstairs and not around you and the girls. I wouldn't set too many boundaries in the beginning...but if you see him texting or calling someone, then I would speak to him about it when it occurs.

If you set too many boundaries in the beginning, he'll seriously think of leaving. You don't want that right now.

Breathe!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Please send Hawho over...I am sure she will be a big help. I have all our bills/finances ready to go..he is not going to be pleased when he sees the bottom line.

I also did some money moving around to see what it would be like if I had to do it on my own. Its not good...I would be in the hole every month. Now I know I am jumping the gun but I needed to get a handle on it and it is something I can control.

H told me he is only looking at the apartment tonight....that is it...I guess he can look all he wants.

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Hi Led - sorry you find yourself here. But you are in a safe place with tremendous support.

I have read up on your sitch and want you to know that I will post some advice in about an hour or so, when I have a free moment at work.

First, my VERY strong advice is before this meeting exert yourself physically. Seriously. Go for a run or bike or yoga, ride the stationary bike, something. Get the stress OUT.

I will post more in a bit.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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I have asked her to come visit w/you...but you can also go over and visit her threads and see what she's been dealing w/and how she's been handling her teenage h living in a dorm room.

A spreadsheet of the what's coming in and what's going out says it all. Don't be surprised if he comes back later and suggests things that can be reduced and/or cut out of your life, i.e., activities for the girls, cable, etc. Some of them have done this.

I don't think you are jumping the gun to see how things will look if you have to take on the finances. I call that planning if things go south.

He can look all he wants, but he's going to discover that they are expensive, i.e., even the hole in the wall ones.

Stay calm and breathe! Try not to allow him to bait you into saying or doing something that you'll regret later. If you feel the conversation isn't going well, then end the discussion and say "we'll continue this discussion at a later time when we've had some time to think about things" and close it down. Nothing will get accomplished if you are emotionally charged and things get heated. Good luck!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Hi Led,

Well, you are receiving excellent advice from Job. She, among others helped me get through those early crazy days.

My h went through months of telling me he wanted to move out. When I confronted him on where he was going all the time and why he seemed out of it, he lied and said nothing was up. MLCers lie, they are sneaky and they are selfish. Weeks later my h confessed he had been apartment hunting but hadn't REALLY lied to me as he had not yet decided if he wanted an apartment??? He was trying to see what "felt right."

Cue eerie MLC music. MLCers operate on feelings and emotions not logic (as you are seeing.) My advice during this conversation is to keep your body and eyes quiet (no angry or antsy body language), speak quietly and calmly. Look him in the eyes (but he will probably avert his).

You can't control anything he is going to do. And he may not remember anything he says. My h told me I could sleep with other men and he would sleep with other women (?!?) and then didn't remember saying any of it the next morning. And I believe he didn't remember. You can't make things better/fix him but you can make them worse. Much of Job's advice points to ways to avoid making things worse: acting like his mother, telling him what to do, getting emotional discussing the relationship, discussing OW, etc.

There was a woman named Beatrice who gave me great advice in addition to Job's advice. Try to think of TED statements. These are statements that begin with "Tell me," "Explain to me" and "Describe..." So in a calm voice and body (very nonchalant) you may say w/ eye contact "tell me why you want an apartment?" "Describe what you are feeling." Then you listen and if you can, give quick, calm advice but only where necessary. Learn by listening. Mostly listen as you will learn most this way.

Through this method I learned my h wanted an apartment to "live life." Ok, so then I ask "tell me what 'living life' means?" (There's that "tell me" statement.) And he insinuated sleeping with other women. So then I calmly said (like a friend not a wife or mother) "didn't you already do that in life? Remember you were bored of it?" And then I dropped it. No arguing, no beating a dead horse, etc.

One thing I did, was to tell my h in a very calm way: there's no rush. No reason to do something rash. You have time." This seemed to talk him off the ledge in those days.

If you want him to stay, the key is apply NO pressure (through words, emotions, your body language, etc).

At the right time you can show him the spreadsheet and maybe say "there's no funds for this and also there's no reason to jump into this." Say no more. Listen. Then if he says something and you need clarification, go to the TED statements.

You're not going to like this next bit. I wouldn't go talking to him about his responsibilities with the kids or the house. He will run. My h is 1 1/2 years post BD and he just ignored me for 1 week because I very politely asked him to clean his dishes.

Worse yet, seeing what I saw of his odd behavior, I did EVERYTHING with the kids for almost a year. He was so out of it. I didn't want him having responsibility for my children. He would get lost driving, forget what day it was, etc. Just because he is their father does not mean he is the right person to care for them right now. I know that's not fair. But it's reality. If you were interviewing him for a babysitting job you'd never hire this person! You'd be better off picking somebody off the street. (My h is better now with the kids. He is more active in their lives, but not his old self with them, by any means.)

We are no longer dealing with a rational adult. You are dealing with a selfish teenager who can only think of himself. We have to try not to think of MLCers as an adults.

Bottom line is keep it calm, short, to the point. His attention span is short now. Once you make your key points, yawn and stretch, like none of this is huge to you, and then you leave the room first. That's right!! I was always yapping away and reasoning and things only got worse. When I made my quick points, yawned and moved on with my night my h gave me owl eyes. Once, after I left like this after a crucial conversation I could see into his room as it had a window to the outside. He sat in that chair for a full minute before he moved. He expected me to stay there and talk him to death (which is what I used to do).

Again, you can't control what he's going to do. Your best chance it to show him there is no pressure. Then you back off completely.

Get some exercise beforehand. It always helps. Sending you calm vibes.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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