Life's a Dance-One Step Forward and Two Steps Back

[melweb]

Start of a new thread. Idk how to link the old one yet.

HW--Good points and you bring up some very thought provoking questions.

Being kind and courteous and thankful are for me. I really had become a person even I did not like (I was angry, miserable, mopey and just plain bitchy.) I refuse to be like that anymore--even my kids had noticed. I have no illusion that it is going get him out of MLC or depression. I am however trying to be a 'person only a fool would leave', and not give him justification if/when he walks out the door.

[2Times2Many]

HaWho's questions are thought provoking and I'll give some more thought to them, but off the top of my head ...

It seems to me that a "person only a fool would leave" is someone who can understand the pain and torment the MLCer is going through and do whatever they can to draw him/her back to "sanity." Granted, there isn't much, but if an opportunity presents itself, I'm all over it.

I don't see anything wrong with a little ego stoking (when appropriate) as their self-esteem is in the gutter and is one of the things that needs to be resolved before they start the journey home. And I think that in some cases, in spite of all the grandiose BS they spout about how great things are with them, they do feel a lot of guilt and doubt. I just think that at some point they will wake up and will gravitate back toward the one who was in their corner all along ... the lighthouse. If not, at least we know we didn't drive them over the cliff. I want to believe deep in my soul that I did all I could, that I was the best, most loving, compassionate, understanding 2T I could be (I'm still working on that) and if he chooses to walk away from that, it's his problem.

I wouldn't be thinking about his LL's right now. I wouldn't be thinking about filling his love bank right now. I'd be thinking more along then lines of being the rock, for when they finally wake up and realize what they've done, the rock is what they will gravitate to.

It looks to me like your H, Mel, was looking for some sign that you were still there ... like Mom in the next room. I think the I love you's are the same thing for him .. are you still there? It's okay to "be there" but based on all I've read, they need to realize that "being there" is a limited time offer. When he says he loves you, I would just respond, "That's nice to hear" or something similar. I would leave the door of doubt ajar in his mind. You can show your love through being the lighthouse ... you don't have to say it.

I could be way off-base. Every sitch is different.

Mel, I completely understand becoming a person you didn't want to be. I was like that for a while ... grumpy, bitchy. bitter. Thank goodness I, like you, recognized that this is not the person I want to be. And I'm much happier with myself.

[ciluzen]

At one point he told me he was doing me a favor , and in ten years I would thank him. (Ring a bell, Cil?) During that convo, I told him to go have his pity party somewhere else.

I like your response to this. My H is still telling me how I feel about him....no matter how I act around him! Its hard to validate someone when they are telling you how you feel about them and they're WRONG. I have a hard time agreeing with his feelings when H can't respect mine as my own.

[melweb]

Thanks so much 2T. My sentiments exactly. Really!

I just posted on HWs thread too, that for me, I need to lay my head down every night knowing that I did everything I could to save this M. And you're right--if we become the best possible version of ourselves and they still walk, then their loss!! Not that I want to become a doormat, or lose any self respect. I am hoping I have a good grip on that. Like you said, I just wanted and needed to be happy with ME!

Its not so much that I am worried about his LL or trying to fill his tank. I have just NOTICED that his LL has changed. I read the book, and I don't remember a LL being able to change. But maybe he has been bilingual this whole time and I never noticed. But, when appropriate, I do try to tell him he looks nice, or thank him for helping with whatever. Not over the top fawning or gushing about his awesomeness.

Cil, Yes, this is what my H is doing too. How do you validate and agree with feelings when they are telling you how YOU feel?

[CaliGuy]

His LL has changed because he has changed, he is in crisis and will be for some time .... During this time he will anchor test to ensure you stay precisely where he left you, this is like a old tshirt .... We love that shirt but only wear it around when no one is looking. With you staying where he left you this frees him to do things he wants, there isn't any change in him because he HS all the cake he can eat.

On of the things in this I think goes overlooked is how long the crisis takes and how broken they are, and will be. I will plant this seed in you, hopefully it takes some root... Use this time to become stronger, you will have to become stronger to last past the crisis. He will temp check/anchor test/touch and go .... You have to be the rock during all this, you have to become hardened to a point where you see him as the person he is at this moment and not who you once knew/loved. Truth darts here and there to steer them along, even some tough love in dashes.
Get detached to a point where You see the checks and tests for what they are.... Just that.

[kml]

People who PERFORM acts of service usually have Words of Affirmation as their receiving love language; they do the acts of service in order to get the kudos.

[melweb]

Thanks Cali. I appreciate your words of wisdom. Since H is all over the map, its hard to " stay" anything at the moment. He's in, he's out, he's in again. Sometimes all in a matter of hours. But it is getting easier-- sadly enough. I am getting stronger.

Though tonite I do not feel very strong as I am pretty sure he is still in contact with OW. While they are no longer FB friends, he has liked her last 4 posts, just tonite, which go back a a few weeks when they unfriended. (Does that make sense, or no?) And I have not pushed acess to his cell acct and he has not freely given it.


Kml... That makes total sense. H does perform AOS, but I always thought it was his recieving LL too.

[ciluzen]

People who PERFORM acts of service usually have Words of Affirmation as their receiving love language; they do the acts of service in order to get the kudos.

This is interesting...and makes sense. Thank you for sharing that!

[ciluzen]

Thanks so much 2T. My sentiments exactly. Really!

I just posted on HWs thread too, that for me, I need to lay my head down every night knowing that I did everything I could to save this M. And you're right--if we become the best possible version of ourselves and they still walk, then their loss!! Not that I want to become a doormat, or lose any self respect. I am hoping I have a good grip on that. Like you said, I just wanted and needed to be happy with ME!

This is sooo important for your PMA. Its interesting, though, that others will see us as being a doormat because we choose to work on a marriage while our H is acting badly and "wants out". They see only that we are in pain and that the pain is caused by an H who is treating us badly. In their eyes, that means we should run away...fast. What they fail to see is the history, the relationship and intimate knowledge of that H that allowed us to care about him and know that all is not right with him now. And how do you just leave a loved one when they are not ok? Instead of being a doormat, we are trying to be strong by standing for our marriage and hoping to outlast this problem with our H, while at the same time getting on with our lives and finding ourselves.

Its not so much that I am worried about his LL or trying to fill his tank. I have just NOTICED that his LL has changed. I read the book, and I don't remember a LL being able to change. But maybe he has been bilingual this whole time and I never noticed. But, when appropriate, I do try to tell him he looks nice, or thank him for helping with whatever. Not over the top fawning or gushing about his awesomeness.

My H's LL has always been AOS. But I have tried AOS back as well as WOA. He bats away any WOA. It also makes validating hard. Its as if he feels so badly about himself right now, so low, that he refuses to believe anyone could find any good in him. He does, however, want to be noticed for his hard work. It seems to be all that he is about, right now.

Cil, Yes, this is what my H is doing too. How do you validate and agree with feelings when they are telling you how YOU feel?

I've been thinking about this for awhile. I don't think you do validate that. I think this is where you set a boundary. A firm one. This is where your "niceness" stops. As in, "I will not allow you to tell me how I feel. I will respect your right to know your own feelings, but you may not disrespect me by telling me that you know better than I what I feel. My feelings are MINE.

[2Times2Many]

Mel, I agree with ciluzen in respect to H telling you how you feel and setting a boundary. My H used to do that all the time. I had to tell him several times that he doesn't get to decide how I feel. He pretty much stopped doing it and when he does, I remind him again that he can't possibly know how I feel.

I think that's part of the justification stuff they use. I think my H decides I "feel" such and such a way about him (negative, of course) and therefore would never want him back, would never forgive him, etc. so it's okay for him to keep doing what he's doing.

I also wonder sometimes if that's a projection. I wonder if somewhere in all that fog, the thought process goes ... If 2T were treating me this way, this is how I would think and feel about her. Therefore, since I'm treating her this way, this is how she thinks and feels about me.