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Thought I'd start my new thread with a quote from one of my favorite songs ...

Now, it seems to me some fine things
Have been laid upon your table,
But you only want the ones that you can't get
(Desperado, The Eagles)

Previous Thread:
What the heck is this: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2641468#Post2641468


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Whenever I hear that song I think of H. He had some pretty fine things on his table ... a successful business, a loving and devoted wife, the respect of his family and step-kids, and the adoration of his 6 step-grandkids to name a few.

Yet, look where he is.

Then I ask myself if I'm the one with some fine things on the table and wanting things I can't get?

I don't think so but it is food for thought.


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I heard that song recently and looked up the lyrics. It's so spot on with MLC.

I think we just want the one we love back, unfortunately, not an option at the moment.


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
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H moved out 2/15
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Oh my gosh--- I love the name of your new thread 2T!! I had to look up the lyrics too cuz I haven't heard it in forever.

Mleigh is right---it sounds like it was written for an MLCer. Even the next line "you've been out riding fences" sounds like they had my H in mind!!


Me 47 H 49 S18 S15
M 21
BD #1 11/09/15 ILYBNILY
I believe we are Piecing 1/2/16
Suspect EA/PA? 2/28/16
BD #2 "He tried, but needs passion." 2/28/16
Confirm PA 3/11/16, he's leaving in June
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2T, catching up with your thread. I’m sorry to hear that your sister is in the hospital. I hope there is nothing serious and she will be home soon.

Just wanted to comment on your posts from your previous thread, about your H’s circle of friends and how he brags about them. My H used to want to be around successful, educated, smart people. At some point before the BD he was getting frustrated with some of our friends, saying that they annoy him. I thought it was strange, but what I didn’t know that H was entering into MLC. H is from a family where finishing high school was considered a big achievement. All of his family had to work hard for the living. I don’t remember anyone even in his extended family who would be rich. Essentially, by marring me, H stepped into a different world. I had different friends and we made different friends, we were able to afford things, traveled, etc… I always though that H fit very well into our circle of friends. But, I might be wrong and maybe he always felt uncomfortable. IDK.

With MLC, H has reconnected with the people from his former life. I’m not saying that they are bad people, but some of them are from lower level of the society, to put it politely. This is his new circle of people here, at the vacation home. I guess he feels at home now, LOL.

I remember there was a link on this forum to another song, that was called Welcome to the hotel Midlife Crisis, or something like that. It was a modified version of Eagles Welcome to the hotel California.


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I looked at the lyrics, too. Pretty spot on. Actually "Lyin' Eyes" struck a chord, too. I'd like to see the "Welcome to the Hotel MLC" lyrics. Maybe the Eagles were all about that MLC stuff. Hidden messages embedded to drive people into MLC, perhaps?
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I'd like to see "Welcome to the Hotel MLC" lyrics too.

I now have to look up lyrics to "Lyin' Eyes." While I was checking out "Despardo," "Heart of the Matter" came up as a suggestion. Was Don Henley having an MLC for crying out loud? Dude seems to hit the nail on the head.

I may need to name next thread after a song:/


Me 47 H 49 S18 S15
M 21
BD #1 11/09/15 ILYBNILY
I believe we are Piecing 1/2/16
Suspect EA/PA? 2/28/16
BD #2 "He tried, but needs passion." 2/28/16
Confirm PA 3/11/16, he's leaving in June
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For the past few years H has gravitated toward people who are "beneath" him in education or success and usually people who have a problem with alcohol. If he befriends people he perceives as "better" than him (say, a doctor friend of ours), he doesn't nurture or build that friendship, but will brag about his "friend" if the circumstances call for it. We have/had friends that were good, decent people but H seems to gravitate more to the ones with issues. I doubt his friends over there are any better than the ones he's had here recently.

For example, M, he brags about his "friends" in high places, but his running group??

They have a run every Saturday then meet to drink beer to excess afterwards. H has had to leave his car several times and go back and get it the next day because he was too drunk to drive. Now, he takes a taxi or Uber.

The head dogs give everyone nicknames that have sexual connotations and are somewhat degrading.

H told me of one guy who spilled beer all over his pants and just took them off and walked around the rest of the night bottomless.

I've seen pics posted where they are drinking beer out of those containers men use in the hospital to urinate in. Didn't see H in those pics, but something tells me he participates in that.

The whole group is juvenile and reminds of the movie "Animal House."

And then, H has the audacity to tell me I'm too uptight to enjoy associating with people like his friends! Yep! I do have a little class and self-respect.

I highly doubt people who are high up in major corporations or government organizations and people who work for embassies behave like that in public.

We worked with a bunch of folks like his running buddies when we first met that behaved in a similar manner. H refused to associate with them outside work.

So sad. But total opposite, right?


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Ciluzen and Mel - I've often wondered the same thing about some of the Eagles songs. I also wonder sometimes about Daughtry's songs. He seems to have several songs along the same lines ... burning bridges and such.


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Yes, total opposite or mirror image of the good guy that has gone under ground for a while.

They do tend to gravitate toward people who are lower in status because they want to be perceived as better than those around them. They want those individuals to look up to them and be impressed by what the MLCer has in life as well as what they can do in the way of success, money, etc. In other words, they want recognition and be loved by these people. Also, in the early days, they don't feel worthy of what they have and sometimes the people that they gravitate towards tell us just how they feel inside about themselves.

BTW, they do love to brag to anyone who will listen...again attention seekers.


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Ugh - the MLC peer group. It's the theme that gives Will Ferrell endless movie scripts.

My h also dropped all normal friends in true MLC fashion. (He now once again talks to his best buddy from college.)

His two BFFs in MLC: both never before married men who are 50. One seemed to spend his days refilling his Viagra prescription and trolling bars/hitting on women even though he always had some live-in girlfriend. He hit on me once. H knew him pre-MLC and wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole. He was a complete louse of a guy. He was the type who gives that elevator look--a woman walks in and he looks at her from top to bottom and back up. Gross.

2nd guy: also 50, never married, lived in a beach house paid for by h parents (had a minimum wage job). He would hold parties at his parents house and party with his parents (they all acted like they were 20). My kids knew him as did many kids because he worked at a rec. center with children. One day my s12's friend said out of he blue: that guy is pathetic. He is 50 acting like he is 20.

I was invited to the first guy's house a few times. But I told h I didn't like him and didn't want to go anymore. One night, at a party, he came with his girlfriend but was in a corner hitting on another girl.

MLC is a real classy affair.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
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2times, another MLC song I heard recently...Behind blue eyes by the Who.

I hear it in so many songs now.


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I found the lyrics. Here it is:

Hotel MidLife Crisis

When you get close to 50, start losing your hair
And your vision gets blurry, from out of nowhere
And your job is a prison, and your sex life's no prize
And you wonder what life's all about. Are you just chasing lies?

Once again Monday morning, comes the 6 AM bell
And you're thinking to yourself ‘This ain't heaven, it seems more like hell’
And you drive on the highway, check for tunes that they play
But strange voices on the radio, all join in to say…

Welcome to the Hotel MidLife Crisis
It's a crazy place, a confusing space
Plenty of room at the Hotel Midlife Crisis
All your deepest fears, get exposed right here.

You might buy a new sports car, or a Mercedes Benz
Maybe find a pretty, pretty girl, that you'll call 'friend'
Hold her close on the dance floor, work up a sweat
And you never remember, what you choose to forget

Then you call to the desk clerk, ‘Please give me my key’
He says: ‘Here you are Mister Midlife sir. Room 623’
But still those voices are calling from far away,
Listen hard when you shut your eyes, and you'll hear them say…

Welcome to the Hotel MidLife Crisis
It's a crazy place, a confusing space
Livin' your life at the Hotel Midlife Crisis
You'll rewrite the truth, while you mourn your youth

Staring at the ceiling; pretty girl beside
She says: ‘Let's do this again tonight, that would be very nice’
You go into the bathroom, and stare into the mirror
But you can’t see that whatever you do, you can't escape the years.

Later on you'll remember, as the fog drains from your head
The selfish way that you acted, and angry words that you said.
And in despair you'll try to think, how did things get so bad?
You never found what you were looking for…
And you lost what you had!"


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I think Pink Floyd lyrics have a lot of midlife crisis influence. Every time I hear the song Brain Damage (“The lunatics are in my head…”), I think about H and the whole MLC concept. Also, some of the Kinks’s songs describe someone going through a midlife crisis (“Shangri-La", "Clichés of the World" …), and these are both some of the favorite H’s bands. I wonder if his MLC started a long time ago…


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You found it!! Love it. Thanks

My H loves Pink Floyd too. (Coincidence?) He wants to see a tribute band in the summer with S18, before S18 goes into the army.


Me 47 H 49 S18 S15
M 21
BD #1 11/09/15 ILYBNILY
I believe we are Piecing 1/2/16
Suspect EA/PA? 2/28/16
BD #2 "He tried, but needs passion." 2/28/16
Confirm PA 3/11/16, he's leaving in June
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Bright, so glad you found the lyrics. It is interesting how much you can find in songs now that you never really paid attentions to before.

Easter dinner with the in-laws was very nice. It seemed a little odd being there without H, but I enjoyed it and the meal was awesome. HaWho, if I had known that Christmas music was now appropriate for Easter, I would have insisted they put some on. Next year!

I saw the Greek Wedding movie this weekend. It was about what you'd expect, but uplifting and entertaining. One of those happily ever after movies. I was a little amused at the couple sitting next to me. I realized they were there on a date and the guy was clearly not into it. I think he dozed off at one point. I recall thinking that I hoped this wasn't the beginning of the R because it really wasn't a good idea for her to drag the guy to a chick-flick if it was. LOL.

And you guys will probably get a chuckle out of this one. It seems that the MLCer isn't the only one who can do whacky things. I was working on a jigsaw puzzle of ice cream labels this weekend and put together the bottom right corner. When I got it done, it didn't look like the picture on the box. I thought, great, I got a screwed up puzzle and who knows what else is wrong. After looking back and forth a few times, I finally realized the the "Made in USA" emblem was not part of the ice cream label in the puzzle, but was stamped on the box over the picture of the puzzle. Duh! confused

So, on to the serious stuff ...

H called in this morning and his happy mask apparently wasn't on. He was somewhat subdued compared to his usual self (which I think is a put on anyway).

He asked if I had gone to his parents for dinner and asked in way that made me feel like he didn't think I'd go without him (probably because I rarely do). Anyway, he wanted to know what we ate (said he was sorry he missed that meal), how long was I there, how did it go, did I enjoy myself? I answered everything honestly.

Then he asked about my sister (who is home from the hospital as of today but still needs to work on the eating thing) which surprised me.

He asked what else I had done over the weekend, so I offered up a little more. I told him I went to see a chick-flick. He actually remembered something ... and it was something rather insignificant! He said he thought I saw that last weekend and I told him I had the release date wrong and had seen something else instead.

As I said, he sounded very subdued. The conversation waned a bit and he acted like he wanted to keep talking but didn't know what else to talk about. So I bit the bullet and asked him what he did over the weekend. I don't usually ask because, quite frankly, I want to stay as far away from his stuff as possible. I also don't want to give him space to lie and then find out about it later. It doesn't sit well with me (as I suppose most of you have noticed smile ), but I suppose if I just accept that everything is a lie, I can deal with it and won't be so disappointed when the truth comes to light or be pleasantly surprised when I find out he's been honest.

He said he'd gone for a ride on his bike (motorcycle, of course), ran a few errands, did some things around his apt, and then perked up when telling me about going to a bar (I assume) with some friends to watch a sports game. After a little small talk about the game, I wrapped things up and passed him over to BIL.

I don't quite know how he's taking my Easter dinner with his parents. I had a tough time with that decision because I know that they are at the root of his problem and I didn't want him to feel like I was "choosing" them over him. For that reason, I have pretty much politely declined invites from them. But it was an opportunity to show him that life goes on here whether he's here or not. And going was a 180 because, as I said, I really haven't done that since all this came about. Most of all, I'm tired of coming up with ways to spend holidays without H (and my kids are otherwise occupied) when I know I'm welcome to join his family. We shall see how this one pans out.


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I wouldn't worry too much about what your h thinks about you visiting w/his parents. If they invite you over and you want to go, then go. They still consider you a family member even if their son is a bit off his rocker these days.

He wanted to know what all took place because he was curious and realizes that he missed out on a great meal and also to see if he was missed/discussed by all. You handled this interrogation very well.

I do not think he's having a great time. He may act like it, but I don't think he is. If he were, he would sound more upbeat and tell you things w/o you having to ask.

He needs to realize that life goes on and it doesn't stand still just because he's not around.

Keep up the good work!


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Thanks, Job. I always appreciate your input. The truth is his name came up maybe twice on Easter and both times it was totally innocuous.

I get a day off tomorrow. smile When we remodeled the master bath a few years ago, we put in floor heating. The thermostat died and I had to call an electrician. He comes tomorrow between 10 and 2. A good reason to take a day off. Yeah! But, not happy about the potential cost. Oh well. I've come to accept that I live in a money trap.

I also got things scheduled to put down mulch now that the weather is warming up. I need to check out the sprinkler system and am hoping they all work ok because I know nothing about sprinklers and couldn't repair/replace one if I had to. That would be another repairman call. I'll tackle that this weekend. Keeping my fingers crossed.

On the MLC front, H is acting strange. Ok, I know that's par for the course, but ...

A few weeks ago I was posting about him not asking anything about what is going on here, and now he's asking all kinds of questions. He's asked about my sister, what I'm up to, stuff like that. He doesn't say much about what he's doing unless I ask. This is totally opposite of how he was behaving until a few days ago. When I did ask about how his weekend or day was, he downplayed and told me a bunch of boring stuff. He also sounds "down".

All of this is totally opposite of how he's been behaving recently. He usually shows no interest in what I'm doing and talks about all the great things he's doing. I get it and expect it.

So he downplays what he's up to, then he changes his profile pic on WhatsApp to one showing him with a big smile while participating in a holiday festival they do over there. Huh? He's telling me one thing and then posting pics that portray the exact opposite. My "watch out" radar is going bonkers.

He also changed his "status" from "busy plucking chickens" to "Shashlik or Hasenpfeffer." (Shashlik is Russian for shish- kabobs and Hasenpfeffer is German for rabbit stew.) I never asked about the chicken one and won't ask about this latest one either.

I'm so confused. It's like he tells me one thing and then puts something out there that he knows I will see that tells me he wasn't completely honest. What am I supposed to do with that? Is he trying to peak my curiosity ... get attention? Is he trying to get caught in ... well, not a lie ... but in misleading me? It doesn't make sense that he would portray leading a somewhat boring life and then post a pic that says the opposite. Did he just think his friends would get a kick out of the pic and forget that he didn't tell me about his festival?

Not that I really care about some festival celebration, but still???? What the heck is going on here and am I supposed to notice? Does he want/expect me to ask about it? My gut says ignore it but maybe I'm wrong. I think I'll resume my spot in the backstage shadows unless someone has another, better approach.


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I hope your bill today isn't too expensive. You've got a lot going on w/repect to your home in the next few weeks, but once the mulch is down, the floor heating repaired and the sprinkler is up and running, you'll have it made in the shad.

MLCers are known for saying one thing and doing another. You pointed out that he's not been asking questions, so he's doing what "mom" wants him to do now...asking questions. That will ease off again...but he wants "mom" to notice that he is asking now.

I'm sure he's aware that you are checking out his page. I think he wants to confirm that you are reading his page and yes, he wants to see if you'll ask him about it.

He's the one that's confused and you are trying to rationalize what he's doing...if he doesn't know which end is up, how can you figure it out yourself. Sit back and observe. I wouldn't be too concerned w/what he's posting these days. He's seeking attention and figures people will question is status, i.e., one way to have people post to him.

Good luck today and I do hope you get your heating fixed!


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Thank you, Job. The floor heater needs a new thermostat and that will cost $280. I guess that's not bad. At least I'm not replacing the water main (again) or roof. LOL. It just stinks because this is something H could have done for about $60. Oh well.

I don't ask about his profile and status updates. He did change the happy, festival pic back to the "contemplative" pic he had before. Those type of pics - not smiling, but looking serious and in thought - seem to be the kind he prefers to post. I don't understand what image he's trying to project with those. Serious businessman who fits in with the kind of people he claims are his friends? IDK.

I have wondered about the Shashlik or Hasenpfeffer, though. I wonder if that isn't in reference to foreign food, but to foreign women. The complete phrase was "Shashlik or Hasenpfeffer ... hmmm" But then, if he's bouncing between two OW and they both use WhatsApp, that would be tipping his hand. But then, he might want two women fighting for him. I'll get no answers since I won't ask, but it's interesting to think about.

I came across his login information for another airline he uses (quite by accident) and have been sitting on my hands to keep from logging in and snooping. I'm assuming the login info hasn't changed. I keep telling myself that the site may have a "last login" message and stay away. It might also send an email for a failed login. Did he leave it where he did because he knew I would eventually find it? Is it a test? Nothing but trouble and possibly pain to be found there anyway. So hard to resist, though, because it could answer some questions.

An issue arose the last time he was here that was just fishy to me, so I came up with an innocent way to get some answers. Well, I was right to be suspicious and when I said I was under a different impression based on what he said, he went the gaslighting route. I confirmed he had manipulated me and I dropped it. He is so good at manipulation. My problem is I don't always recognize it until after all is said and done.

He gave BIL the dates for his trip back at the end of the month and he will be here for a whopping ... wait for it .... 7 days. He will have been gone 3 months and will give me the pleasure of his company for a whole week. I suppose I should feel lucky that he's giving me any time at all since he's leaving his awesome life there to come here. Okay, that was sarcastic, but what goes through my mind is why bother to come back at all? Oh yeah. I forgot. Have to keep 2T and BIL pacified ... they have to think I give a d$&m about what goes on over there. (Actually he does care ... he wants money to keep going into his bank account.)

I realize all that sounds like I'm angry or feel defeated, but like some of the other long-timers here, I keep wondering why I continue putting up with this. I can change course any time I want. Hire someone to do my job, let him buy me out of the business (not a good financial move for him) and start D proceedings.

Sometimes I feel compassion for him and tell myself that he can't help this. Then other times, I look at his picture and I'm briefly overcome by feelings of contempt for what he's done. Then I go back to the compassion. Wash, rinse, repeat.

I definitely don't want him back the way he is. No question about that. After 3 years I begin to doubt that he will ever come out of this.

But when I think about calling it quits, I feel like I'm just running away like he did. I feel like I need something to run to and I don't have that right now. I don't have the "this is where I want to go" mindset because I'm just not sure where I want to go. I also don't want to feel like a quitter. I don't want to regret that I bailed too soon. That I threw away my opportunity, because I know, somewhere in all that fog, he does love me.

Total and complete freedom is sitting just outside my door and I don't know what to do with it. I can do anything, go anywhere, live anywhere I want. Complete freedom. And I don't know what to do with it. Sad.

So, to lighten things up, I had another wacky moment today. I've discovered a way to shop and not spend money! I went to Home Depot today to get some light bulbs for the can lights in the kitchen and when I started to pay at the self-checkout my wallet wasn't in my purse. I had left it on the coffee table after purchasing something online earlier in the day. I had to ask the clerk to set the bulbs aside and give me 15 to 20 minutes to go home and get my wallet. Another "Duh" moment for me. I honestly don't know how anyone could want to leave someone as entertaining as I am!

I may tune in some basketball tonight. I'm not a fan, but my bracket has a chance of winning in the office pool. Of course, being the boss, I wouldn't keep the money. I'd use it to buy lunch for everyone or something similar.

Hope everyone is having a good weekend!

2T


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2Times2Many - I feel all those same emotions. As you just wrote on my thread, we only have glimpses of what's going on in their crazy worlds. And there's no ryhme nor reason there. But there are lots of opportunities to spin. Don't let yourself be dragged into it all. Clearly he is trying to project some image of himself to some group of people who understand the inside joke.

Regarding the fact that freedom is outside your door. Well? Why not go away for a bit? Try something new? Perhaps your BIL can cover for you? Your kids are grown. Why not? If planning it all gives you anxiety, you could go where the wind takes you.


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BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
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It's been a couple of weeks since I posted, but I check in frequently to see how everyone is doing.

Not much has changed on the MLC front. H is due back in about 10 days, so we'll see what comes of that. I think I'm ready for whatever he throws at me.

The past couple of weeks have been fairly busy. I got the broken thermostat replaced and the mulch is down in the yard. I also got our yard guys to do the spring clean-up, trimming, etc and the yard looks nice.

I turned on the sprinkler system and it all looked okay, but then I noticed that a couple of areas weren't getting water. I'm assuming the issue is adjusting the alignment on the sprinklers, but I have no clue about that stuff. I found someone on Angie's List to come out and do a check-up on the system for a reasonable price and they will be here this week.

I hate to waste money on something like that when I could wait 10 days and let H do it, but I am determined NOT to ask him to do anything for me while he's here. I want him to see that I DO NOT need his help and I'm doing just fine without him!

I have the second facial treatment this week and am looking forward to that. (A good excuse to take a couple of days off!) I like the results from the first and can't wait to see the results of the entire series of treatments.

Oh, that reminds me of a weird thing that happened. I think I posted a while ago that when I do something like the facials or a great trip somewhere, H usually follows suit by doing something similar.

Last Sunday I had this weird feeling that something was up with H. I read a book years ago about paying attention to intuition or gut feelings because it's usually an indication that your subconscious is picking up on something the conscious doesn't register. H knows that when I get a strong vibe about something, I usually follow up and don't just dismiss it.

So on Sunday night (H's Monday morning), I sent H a text and told him that for some reason he had been on my mind and I just wanted to check that everything was okay with him.

He texted back that all was good and then followed that with a phone call. He said everything was okay and he was fine. I replied that I couldn't explain why I felt the need to check, but to be careful that day.

He then told me that he was actually a little nervous and apprehensive because he was going in later in the day to have veneers put on his teeth. It didn't surprise me that he would do something similar to my facials but how weird is it that I felt the need to ask him on that day if everything was ok with him?

Off to Home Depot now to get some yard clean-up supplies for my back garden. I plan to make sure I have my wallet with me this time.

Hope everyone has a great weekend.


Me: 59 and holding
H: :53
Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown
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From my perspective, not weird at all, you were just in the groove. however, I must confess that my son tells people his mother the herbalist is a witch, so factor that in wink

Good for you for following your gut instinct and sending that text.

xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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also want to add this: i've gone the totally independent route, and also at times asked H for help around the place. my experience has shown me that I'm personally a LOT more comfortable spending the $ and taking care of it myself.

just my $.02


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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So, the irrigation company came out to check out the system and found a bad connection underground that was leaking. I'm glad I called them. All fixed.

I got my gardens and planters ready for annuals and pressure washed the patio furniture to get rid of the pollen crud. I had issues connecting the hose to the pressure washer ... couldn't get a tight connection and the washer wouldn't work cuz it wasn't getting enough water I suppose. It looked to me like the end of the hose was bent so I ended up going back to Home Depot to purchase a new hose. Incredibly frustrating to spend $30 for a new hose when a new fitting could have been attached to the hose for a few dollars. Unfortunately, I don't know how to do that stuff. frown

Oh, and then there was the pressure washing. I ended up making some marks in the deck stain, so I'll have to fix that.

I'm super pleased with my second facial treatment. It went well and I didn't leave the office looking like someone who would scare small children. I do have to see a dermatologist before the next treatment though because of a suspicious area on my nose. I don't think it's anything serious, but better safe than sorry.

I had planned to take my old jeep down to gets it's inspection (for a tag) today, but it wouldn't start. My bad ... I haven't driven it in a while. I assumed the battery's dead, so I hooked up H's battery charger and ended up having to call him about it since I wasn't sure I was reading the dials right. He was helpful and hopefully tomorrow it will start and I can go for a long drive to really charge it. Hopefully. smile

H is due back next Tuesday. He texted today and asked me to join him for dinner on Tuesday night with his Mom and Dad. I will have to give him some brownie points. The last time he came back he texted at the last minute to ask me to join them for dinner and I had other things to do, so declined. I keep thinking about my Mom when I was teen .... don't accept a last minute invite ... let them think you have other things to do. I really did! LOL.

I'm usually a little antsy before he comes back but this time I'm strangely calm. I've been giving a lot of thought to putting an end to all of this. I don't believe he will ever come home and even if he did, I don't know that I could live with the person he has become. I've been through this twice and I can't imagine living a life with him where I wasn't always in fear he would do it again. He would have to get major therapy and I just don't think he would.

In the meantime, I think about the life I'm leading now and I have to believe that there is a better life out there for me. At my age you want to grab as much of life as you can and I feel like I'm wasting precious time.

I think I know what I need to do. I just don't know if I have the strength to do it at this point. It would be an emotional upheaval and it's so tempting to just sit where I am but this a lousy way to live. So much to think about.

But at the moment, I'm really, really proud of myself. In the last month, I've gotten all the Spring maintenance done for the house, gotten a few other repairs taken care of and have done some big things for me (like facials). Part of that is showing H that I can handle things just fine on my own, but mostly it's that I CAN handle things on my own. It make me feel really good.


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you sound so strong and grounded, good for you! and do get spot that checked out - yes, better safe than sorry!

I hope the battery charges and you get to take a nice relaxing drive.

You can and should be proud of all the hard work you've done. Independence is hard won. I understand your feelings about not being sure. I think when the time is right you will know what to do. You may be getting closer, but I'm not quite sure you're completely there yet, and that's ok!

xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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As I have said many times, I cannot even imagine going through this twice. You are to be commended.

Kudos to you for getting all those tasks done.

And I did smirk that he invited you out to dinner with his parents. I imagine he may be a bit sore that you all got together without him? What?!? The world does not stop orbiting for the MLCer?


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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"I don't believe he will ever come home and even if he did, I don't know that I could live with the person he has become....I can't imagine living a life with him where I wasn't always in fear he would do it again."

This resonated with me and I feel the same way (though I haven't been through this searing experience twice). It does sound as though you are in a strong and positive place and reading your post I'm thinking - she's gonna be just fine, whichever way things go.

Good for you xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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You should be very proud of yourself...look at all that you've accomplished in the last month or so! As for figuring out how things work, i.e., power washer, etc., google for instructions. I use them all of the time and find clips that show you step by step directions on how to repair things, etc.

Did you run the vehicle a bit after your charged it? Hopefully it will start today for you. I'm glad your h was helpful in providing info on the batter charging experience.

Wow! He's invited you to dinner w/his mother and father? Now, that's a huge platter of brownie points! I do hope that you will go and enjoy yourself.

You've come a long way and I think that in your mind, you've made some decisions about what you want in life, but haven't decided when you will move forward on them. Sometimes it takes a while before we are actually ready to do something different. Don't rush the process, especially when you are frustrated or angry. You want to make your decision when you are calm and have your ducks in a row, so to speak.

I'm very proud of you and you are a success no matter what happens. Keep up the good work!


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2T, wow, you are getting a lot of things accomplished. Your garden planted, your patio washed, your irrigation system repaired… You got it, girl! I’m very curious about your facial treatment. I wonder if I should do something like that too. Do you feel like you have a younger and healthier skin now? Did it smooth some wrinkles, etc.? I remember that you said it eliminated some darker spots on your face.

Isn’t it something that your H invited you to join him for dinner with his parents… I’m very curios how it going to go, LOL. Is he going to talk about the “activates” he is doing for fun while away from you. I wish I would be a fly on the wall at that dinner, LOL.

I think there are a few of us here who start questioning if there is better life for us out there, outside of this MLC drama and all that it comes with. You absolutely should be proud of yourself, for taking care of the things on your own, and to continue to live your live and making the best of it, while your H has been a selfish SOB. Sorry, I just could not find any other word for


M:50
H:52
S28 (my S from previous marriage)
M:17 + 3
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S: 06/12 - H works in another state
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2T I've been catching up with your threads, and I wanted to say that I think you are doing great, well done


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





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Originally Posted By: 2Times2Many
For the past few years H has gravitated toward people who are "beneath" him in education or success and usually people who have a problem with alcohol.

I have noticed this with my W also, but all through her life. This is the type of friends she had before we met. She would meet better people, but never get close to them. She would meet these "lower" people and try to become good friends with them. None of the friendships either way lasted, not sure if she realized their ways (many ended up with sticky fingers!), or if I played a part in it by telling my W she is better than that. Her becoming friends with these lower people always seemed to go hand in hand with a low in our M, not sure which caused the other. I am guessing the friends made W miss her previous life and that caused a low in the R.

W's recent new group of friends are similar, she starting hanging out with them in the last year prior to BD, only occasionally, but wanted me to go along. I did occasionally, but didn't care for it. The time with them increased right before BD, and now she practically lives with them. They are borderline alcoholics, a few are into drugs, some of the worst parents I have seen, they have OK jobs but run down messy houses and beater vehicles. Not sure what they spend their money on, other than alcohol.

Originally Posted By: job
They do tend to gravitate toward people who are lower in status because they want to be perceived as better than those around them.

This is similar to what I suspected long ago. And I know I told my W that she is better than them, and questioned why she chose friends like that. W was also an enabler, she liked to help others. I would point out that these people made choices to not help themselves.

Note, I may or may not be dealing with a MLCer, it may be just severe depression.

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OFP,

Depression is the main ingredient of MLC. They go from just being depressed to severely depressed and then withdrawal at some point during their crisis.

Your wife's situation may only be depression...but w/MLC there is always confusion. Is your wife exhibiting confusion too?


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
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Forgot to mention in the last post, my IC suggested that my W chooses these friends because they are the same "mental age" as herself. "IF" she grows (comes out of it), she will outgrow the friends. I doubt that will happen, ever. Her mother is similar in mental age (13 yr old?), she never did grow. I always was so thankful my W was smarter than her mother.... but now wonder if "love is blind" just made me think that she was smarter.

S11 and D9 were just involved in an activity with this group. We (me, W, S11, D9) went with this group for this activity last year, they were all drinking the whole time, made me fear the safety of S and D. I asked my kids if they saw any alcohol this time, they said they watched carefully and no one was drinking. My W is forcing them to grow up? Or paranoid that I will say/do something if I find out about the alcohol? I can't say what the activity is, worried it will lead W here.

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Originally Posted By: job
OFP,

Depression is the main ingredient of MLC. They go from just being depressed to severely depressed and then withdrawal at some point during their crisis.

Your wife's situation may only be depression...but w/MLC there is always confusion. Is your wife exhibiting confusion too?

I think I'm hijacking someone else's thread eek
Mine is here, if you (Job) could post there would be super cool wink :
OFP

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Your IC is spot on. They choose people beneath them because they want them to look up to them and they want to be shining stars in all things. As for the mental age, they tend to choose people younger than themselves because of their emotional and mental state of being "younger" in their own minds. Will they ever change? Some do, some don't.

No one knows what is going thru her head right now. It could be that someone else had an issue w/alcohol and don't want to have it around minors for fear of getting busted, but whatever the reason, I'm glad your kids didn't see any being passed around.

Try to keep the focus on you and your kids. Leave your wife to twirl in the wind.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Hello all,

Thank you to bttrfly, HW, Sotto, Job, Bright, Esame and OFP for all the kind words and support.

Esame, I was saddened to read the news about your MIL. It will be long, tough road for her, but I hope all ends well.

OFP, it appears that some grow up, some don't (as Job said). All we can do is focus on taking care of ourselves and our children.

Bright, the facials started with a chemical peel and now I'm on to the laser treatments. Both are evening out the tone of my skin and I look much healthier. Some of the fine lines have diminished, but I wasn't so much concerned with those as I was the age spots. Those will take several treatments, depending on the depth of the pigment. Some of the smaller ones have disappeared. Overall, I'm very satisfied. Just have to really watch the sun exposure for now.

I managed to get the car started on Saturday, drove it for a while and then took it for the inspection. I couldn't get the inspection done because the dead battery caused the "brain" in the car to get wiped out so there was no data to check. I have to put some miles on it before I can get it inspected so I'm driving it this week instead of the one I usually drive. (The one needing inspection is 14 years old and I only use it for trips to the nursery and other dirty jobs.) Hopefully I can get the inspection done this weekend. Learned something new!

H back today. I have such mixed feelings about that. Part of me is curious to see "who" returns and part of me just doesn't want to spend time with him. I just can't work up any positive feelings about his visit. I'm just kind of ho-hum.

With the exception of his last trip back when he had his assistant in tow, I usually get the "speech" about what he is and isn't going to do and how he's going to lead his life and how great his life is over there. I just don't want to listen to it. Add to that all the lies I've discovered since he left last time, and I just find it hard to have any good feelings about him right now. I just find myself wondering what kind of drama we'll have this time?

Dinner tonight should give me a good impression of "who" I'm dealing with this time while in a safe environment. We usually go out to dinner with his parents when he's here, so the invite wasn't surprising to me. It was asking me ahead of time that surprised me. I guess he figured out after I declined last time that I do have a life, do not have to drop my plans to accommodate his and if he wants me to join him in something, he needs to ask more than an hour ahead of time.

Should be an interesting evening.


Me: 59 and holding
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T: 23
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Dinner was pretty much uneventful.

It was so weird though. I felt no "loving" feelings at all for him. It was as though I was having dinner with a casual friend. Just weird.

At one point I was listening to him talk and found myself wondering if he had been wining and dining other women. It didn't upset me or cause any anxiety ... just a passing thought.

He said at least one thing that I knew was a lie. He told his parents he would be here for two weeks. I know he's booked to go back next Thursday. I'm wondering if he'll come up with a reason why he had to change things and leave early or will find some other reason that he thinks his parents will buy. During that conversation, he also threw out there that he would be here most of July. That would be a departure from the norm, but I don't really think that will happen.

He gave me the impression that he expects to spend a great deal of time at my place to work on some business issues we've been dealing with the past couple of weeks. Once he said that, he added ... I don't know what you have planned, but we need to talk about this stuff.

There was a time when that would have been music to my ears, but I find myself dreading the thought of having him invade that much of my "personal" time and disrupting my routine. I'm just not looking forward to it and don't quite know how to handle it. I don't want to be nasty but I'm not sure what kind of boundary, if any, to put in place.

He was a little put out with me for using my own airline miles to purchase a ticket for myself instead of asking to use his. I also mentioned something about not being able to get my hanging baskets done so a friend could have hung them for me last week. (Ladder needed on rocky area .... not for me alone) He seemed put out about that, too and said he would do that for me. He wants to feel needed???

I still don't have a good read on which h I'm dealing with and will have to see how things go for a day or two.

In the meantime, I have a pretty good read on me and I think I can handle whatever comes my way. I never really thought I would look at him and not have my heart ache, but that's exactly what happened tonight.

Time ... that precious gift Cadet tells us about.


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I'm glad you went to dinner and were able to observe his behavior in a relaxed setting. Sounds like he's settled down a bit and is coming across as a friend right now. Listen closely and sift thru what comes out of his mouth. You'll learn more this way rather than asking questions.

As for his time frame for leaving, time has no meaning to them. He may think he's got an additional week or so and didn't realize his departure date is right around the corner. Again, time is very slow for them and they don't remember dates very well.

As for him spending time w/you to discuss business issues, can't that be done at the office and not in your home? What about going somewhere and discuss issues over coffee?

I would take advantage of his good nature and if he wants to help you hang flower pots or whatever, take him up on it...but be sure to thank him for it. In a way he wants to be needed and recognized for his work and after all, he looks to you as a good friend right now. Friends help friends...right?? But, again, you have to decide whether or not you want him around you in your space.

Time is a very precious gift and we all need to use it wisely, but also enjoy ourselves in the process of learning about ourselves.


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Thanks Job for you input. I always appreciate your viewpoint.

H suggested at the office today that he come to the house this evening and we have a pizza and some beers while we discussed some business stuff. I didn't have anything planned and was curious as to what is up with him, so I agreed.

Very interesting evening. One thing he mentioned a couple of times is that he felt like he would need to come back here more often to help me with the business stuff. I told him I was glad to hear that because some of the business dealings were over my head, that BIL couldn't assist and I needed his help. I kind of played up his business skills and how much I needed his input. (Validation and cheer leading I suppose.)

He realized how much I had handled here at the house on my own without him and I talked a little bit about my "adventures" in handling some of those things. When we got to the sprinkler system, he immediately offered to check them out for me, but I told him I had hired someone else to take care of it because ...

He asked what I had been doing to keep busy and if I was involved with any "groups." I answered him honestly ... no, no groups. I told him I get all the socialization I need at the office and most days when I left I did what we both wanted years ago when we worked for the same organization - peace and quiet. I added that I did do things with others now and then, but no groups. He replied that he needed to be "social." I just validated and said everyone is different in what they need.

I mentioned how expensive it was to maintain this house and that led to a discussion about the "future." I told him that this house would be too much for me to maintain (alluding to a life without him or the income I currently get from our business) and that down the road I would probably rent a condo or townhouse that didn't require yard maintenance, etc. He asked, "So, you want to sell the house?" I said not now, but I couldn't stay here long term (again alluding to a future on my own without the business income).

He talked about his activities over there and the people who live in or near his new place (all important, of course). He talked about all the new "groups" he's involved in and how much he enjoys them. I basically said I was glad for him.

He mentioned an outing that may take place around his birthday and I said it was nice that his friends were planning something special for that day. Then he backed off and said it wasn't "for his birthday," just that weekend.

One thing he noticed immediately upon coming in the house (basically though a walkway from another room) was a vase of flowers on the coffee table. Every once in a while when I feel like I need a pick-me-up, I order some flowers for myself ... seeing them makes me smile. I did that late last week and they still look pretty good. Anyway, he saw them right away and said, "Nice flowers." I just said, "Yes, they are pretty" and nothing more. I don't care if he thinks someone else sent them or I sent them to myself. All I care about is he realize I deserve a little "cheer" in my life once in a while and I can do that for myself if I need to. But, I hope it has him wondering.

Overall, it was a pleasant evening and I didn't get the "speech" but he seemed uncomfortable. I'm not going to speculate why. I don't know if he's holding back on something that he thinks will be hurtful or processing that I'm doing just fine without him ... although it costs me money to do so. It could be another bomb waiting to explode (wouldn't surprise me) or it could be what you think, Job ... he's settling down. Only time will tell.

In the meantime, no expectations. I'm still focused on taking care of me. I feel sorry for him and hope he finds his way, but I have to focus on taking care of me.


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Very well done last evening. He now has a bit of info to mull over and over about. He now knows that you are thinking ahead and what you might plan to do concerning living arrangements. As for the flowers, you responded perfectly! Let him wonder. He doesn't need to know everything that is going on w/your life.

As for his friends, well...that could be just bragging and wanting to impress you w/his so called happiness or it could be true. Whatever he's doing, he's still not a happy many. It's all superficial as far as I'm concerned. They want the world to think they are happy and they've done the right thing, but when darkness falls and they are in their little cubby hole, the mask falls and they feel and are alone w/their thoughts of what they had and where they are now. So sad.

One day, he may regret the time he's lost w/you...but he may never tell you because of that ego and pride...

Keep up the good work!


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I think someone (BIL, unknowingly) turned on the lights in the theater. My impression is that H is beginning to realize that if he doesn't get more involved in his business, he may lose it (Not at all my fault. I've worked hard to keep it from going down the drain). Doesn't mean squat for our personal life, but I sure need him to take some interest in this business for my own sake. Despite my best efforts, I can't fill his shoes and although BIL is a great guy, he just doesn't have the expertise he needs at this point. H seems to be in somewhat of a panic, for lack of a better word. Not so much because of the current sitch, but where it's headed if this keeps up. Hello ... I've been trying to tell you this for over a year!

I thought the statement h made about being here most of July was just "meaning what they say when the say it" (AmyC, here) but he booked his trip this morning, so I guess he really will do it. Like I said, BIL may have turned on the lights in the theater. (Shout out to Stayed's H.)

Putting that aside, life goes on for me regardless of what H does or doesn't do.

I'm hoping to finally get my car inspected this weekend and get my gardening done.

Next weekend I fly out to see my sister. She's home and doing better, but has an oxygen machine to use at night and during the day, as needed. She has been a heavy smoker all her life and I guess she's now paying the price. I don't want to lose her. She's the only one left I can share and laugh about childhood memories with. I suppose it happens to a lot of us ... I'm just not ready for that.

I'm also beginning to think about my trip to NYC in a few weeks. My IC told me today that I should go over to the Plaza hotel and have tea or a drink at the bar, and also check out the Waldorf and have one of their famous Bloody Marys, as well as some other landmarks. I drove home with visions of visiting famous landmark hotels and having a drink at each, then stumbling back to my hotel to pass out in my bed. Naw! I don't think my IC is an alcoholic or anything ... just a romantic about movie scenes in famous NY hotels.

Hope everyone has a great Friday.


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Forgot to add that H looks bad. He's extremely thin ... so much so that I would be concerned and making an effort to fatten him up some. Last time he lost a ton of weight, he was wooing a younger woman.

His demeanor last night was the same as he usually behaves when he has something on his mind and is reluctant to bring it up (usually not good). My guard is up and I'm preparing to be a stone no matter what he finally throws out there.


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So, replay continues. He's joined a biking club there now, bought a bike and purchased a car rack that holds two bikes to take back with him. He also purchased a two-person pup tent to take back ... for what? I have no idea. (I keep zoning in on the "two" and it gets under my skin.) Again ... he never did this kind of stuff in all the time I've known him.

The interesting thing about the bike is that I asked for (and got) a recumbent exercise bike for Christmas. He kept remarking that he wished he had thought of that. And Voila, he now has a bike! More of the same ... if I do it, H does something similar. My IC thinks it's a case of if I do something, it's okay for him to do it ... kind of like giving permission.

But he continues to be Jekyll and Hyde. He's doing the replay stuff, but he's been phenomenal in the office the past few days, taking the leadership role he's always filled, calling the major players into an office, running numbers, explaining the numbers, brainstorming and coming up with potential answers to some of our issues of late ... something that has been severely lacking over here. H knew I wasn't capable of filling that role, so he brought in BIL, but BIL isn't capable of filling it either. BIL and I don't always see eye to eye (and I suspect he thinks I don't know enough to give him advice ... and he's dead wrong), so there's no real leader and the business has suffered because of it.

It's all very frustrating and puts me in a bad position between H and BIL. If I were to tell H half the lame stuff BIL said and/or did, H would fire him and that wouldn't go down well with his family. And H would have to come back and run the company. AND ... guess who's stuck in the middle and who'd get the blame for all of that? It's one of the reasons I want to put an end to all of this. I keep asking myself if the extra income I get from the company is really worth all this.

Anyway, I plan to spend some time digging in the dirt tomorrow to plant my annuals .... after that car inspection.

Hope everyone has a good weekend.


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H and I spent the entire day together yesterday. He helped me with the gardens and a few other little chores and we did a ton of R talking ... initiated by him. There was good and bad and some insight into the MLC mind. This will be kind of long, I think.

He opened the door to R talk and I took the opportunity to tell him that I had been giving some serious thought to changing direction ... to leaving the business and getting a D. I told him it wasn't what I wanted to do in m heart, but my mind is telling me I need to change course. I said that this was not the kind of life that I wanted to live and added that I had hoped we would find our way back together, but I have come to the conclusion that he is never coming back and I need to move on and build a new life. I reiterated that it's not what I want to do, but my head is saying I need to do it. I added that I just wasn't sure what direction to take, where I wanted to go, etc. and I wasn't sure I was emotionally strong enough to go through that process yet.

There was a lot of discussion and he calmly listened and said he understood. He also said things like "I want to be free" and "The only reason I didn't want a D is for the business." He pretty much said he wanted a D now, but he wanted me to remain in the business and he wanted us to be friends. I pointed out that we are basically already doing that ... we just don't have the legal part done ... and it just isn't the kind of life I want.

He said we needed to spend some time figuring out the best way to do things ... that he wanted me to be happy and I deserved to be happy. I left it at I had a lot to think about and I just wanted to be sure that whatever direction I take is the right direction for me and not harmful to either of us.

He said he'd tried to find romantic feelings for me and they just weren't there ... that he cared deeply for me but it wasn't in a romantic way. I just said I understood. He said he wished it could be different and we could rekindle that. I just said I understood, but pointed out very gently that it's difficult to rekindle feelings with so much time and distance between us. He agreed.

My impression is that on one hand he wants things to basically stay the same as they are, only now he wants a legal D that really doesn't change a thing. I'll get to the other hand later.

The second thing that was expected but still hurtful is he told me he's involved with a 2nd OW. Although that stung, for some strange reason I don't see her as a threat. We didn't really talk about her or that sitch (I think it came up one other time when I asked if she knew he was married ... yes.), but based on other things he said, I get the gut feeling that he's seeing her more out of wanting female companionship and sex than actually being "in love" like the first OW. It just felt like she was "something to do." Just a vibe I picked up on. Maybe I'm looking through rose colored glasses??

I did get the chance to plant a couple of seeds about her. H said at one point he would completely understand if I got involved with another man and if that made me happy he would be glad. I replied that it would be easy to think he did it, so it's okay for me to do it, too, but I just couldn't do it and explained that it had nothing to do with him and that it was more to do with me.

It was here I planted a couple of seeds. I told him I would be wary of any man who wanted to get involved with me given all the baggage I'm carrying and I also worry that some men might see my lifestyle, where I live, etc and think "cha-ching!" (I'm by no means "rich," but I am comfortable enough.)

That was about all that was said that was painful to hear.

He told me numerous times that he regretted the way he treated me, that I didn't deserve to be treated that way, that I didn't do anything wrong, that he hated the way he has treated me, that none of this was my fault. He said he didn't want to hurt me anymore ... that he'd already hurt me way too much ... and he wanted me to be happy.

He said he had f'd everything up and he didn't think there was any way to rebuild after that. He said he didn't think I would ever be able to forgive him.

I replied that was a question I had asked myself often and the answer has always been that if he wanted to come back and sincerely try to R that I could forgive him. I told him that to be perfectly honest, I had been forgiving him all along.

I said I had also done things I regret and didn't know if he could forgive those and he said he knew what I was talking about (not keeping his A secret), had really put myself in his shoes and he had already forgiven that. That led to a brief discussion about forgiving one's self.

He said our M had been so wonderful that he didn't think he could ever find that kind of love, devotion, happiness, etc with anyone else. He said the bar had been set so high he didn't think anyone could rise to it, but if he never found it again, he would be satisfied with knowing that he had experienced that kind of love in his life.

I said I agreed. I said that M is dead, but I have always felt and still do somewhere deep in my soul that there was enough of a foundation, given the depth of our R, to build a new R on but that was something we would both have to want and work for. I said I had hoped for a long time that he would decide to try, but I have accepted that he just has no interest in that. He said he thought the same way and wished he felt differently about me. He talked a little about the logic vs heart, but wasn't really clear about how those things influenced his thinking.

So, that's the second hand. There seems to be a tremendous amount of guilt and regret. He said over and over how much he regretted what he had done. There also seems to be a yearning to get back what he has lost but he seems to have convinced himself that he messed things up and this is his new lot in life by his own doing. He seemed to think that the door was closed.

I did my best to be comforting and compassionate without coming across as pursuing. I wanted him to know that the door is not closed but it was up to him to walk through it and I was prepared to move on with my life if he chose not to.

So, a little insight into the MCL mind ...

H said that during the 1st A, a lot of people kept asking him what the heck was he doing - more because of the girl he got involved with than the cheating. He said our assistant was all over him about the whole thing. He said he didn't know why he did it. He said he couldn't explain it ... that it just happened. He seemed very frustrated by that - by not being able to understand why he did it.

I asked him if moving there was something he had been planning to do before he actually made it happen. He said he didn't plan it at all and had no intention of leaving me or living over there in the beginning. He said his only intention was the project we were trying to start. Leaving me and living there just evolved. There was no plan.

We talked a little about depression and he said one day he was so down that he got in his car and started driving. His destination was hours and hours away. He wanted to just go away where no one knew where he was and get lost to the world. He said he drove about 3 hours before he decided to turn around and go back.

Finally, he walked into the family room and noticed some pretty obvious changes I had made years ago. He said .. you did so-and-so. I told him I had done it a couple of years ago when I repainted. He said he never noticed until now.

At the end of the day, during and after dinner we were going down memory lane and remembering some of the crazy stuff we did in the beginning. We were both laughing A LOT.

Before leaving, he did the dishes and refused to let me help. He gave me a hug and a kiss on the cheek and said he really enjoyed the day. He thanked me for my "forgiveness."

When he got back to his place, he sent a text thanking me for a wonderful day.

My mind is still spinning trying to sort all this out, but I thought there were some things in there that could be of benefit to those trying to understand their MLCer.


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Sounds like the day was enlightening for both of you. You've given him a lot to think about and right now, he's feeling a lot of guilt and shame for what he's done. Right now, he doesn't see a way back to you to reconcile and begin a new marriage.

Do you want to try and save your marriage? If so, you have the key. What is the key, time, patience and forgiveness. Show him that you can forgive and be a friend. Sure, he doesn't feel anything for you right now and that's the depression talking. If you are in no hurry to push for a divorce, then sit a while unless there is an absolute need to do so to protect the assets, etc.

Again, you are the key and if you have to decide exactly what you want. If you want to wait a while longer, then wait, but do not allow others to push you towards a divorce unless you are ready to do so. If he wants a divorce, then allow him to do the filing. Time is on your side...truly think about what you want. If it means taking some time from the forum and doing some soul searching, then by all means do so. No matter what you decide, we'll be here for you.


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No Job, I'm in no hurry to D and basically told him that. I made it very clear that a D is not what I want, but I didn't want to continue living the way I am now.

There is absolutely no reason to push for a D and I've always known that. I know I have time and right now I am very appreciative of that time.

This is the first conversation we've had in years that was heartfelt, intimate (not in a sexual way) and open. There was no hate, no spew, no anger. Just conversation and, like I said, my head is still spinning, but for the first time in a very long time I don't feel like the sitch is hopeless. Only time will tell and I have time.


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You handled all that so well. You showed such grace and kindness.

Just want you to know that I am thinking of you.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
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Thank you, HW. I think of you often and hope your h has settled down some. I so wish I could meet you and some of the other LBSs here. I think we are all pretty awesome.

A couple of more peeks into the MLC mind ...

H was describing some of the (ridiculous) stuff his running group does and said it was like college guys having fun. I interjected, "Frat boys" and he jumped on that saying, "Yes! Frat boys." I just replied that it was good to behave like a kid once in a while. So he knows he's behaving like a college frat boy.

Second, he said he had taken up weight lifting and he ended that convo with, "It's something to do." That falls in line with what my IC has said. He gets into all this stuff because he has to fill the void I once occupied.

As for the next chapter of H's visit home ...

He called this morning and asked me to join him in a trip to the mall. This was actually something on my list ... that he would invite me along on one of his shopping trips while here. He always does some shopping but never asks me to join him. I declined at first saying I had this and that to get done (and I did). He said if I changed my mind to let him know. So I waited an hour and called him to say he had motivated me to get my bumpkis in gear and I would love to join him if the invite was still good.

He was somewhat moody, but I did my best to keep things light and friendly, cracking jokes and taking the opportunity when it presented itself to appreciate things he did for me (like getting drenched in the rain when he went to bring the car around to me) or cheer-lead without being over the top.

He noticed a home repair that needed fixing when he dropped me off and took care of it. I showed the proper appreciation.

All I can say is this has been an interesting weekend. I feel like I'm in uncharted territory here.

Lots to think about.


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You are definitely in unchartered territory and each and every time you have contact w/him, something new will be revealed. He feels comfortable talking to you...so listen closely and you will learn quite a bit about the man he is today.

I don't think he's having such a great time w/all of those new friends of his. If he's taken up weight lifting, he's filling a void not only left by you, but he's got a lot of time on his hands.

BTW, they do tend to be moody at times...just roll w/the punches and don't take it personally.


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2T, thanks for sharing “the insight into MLC mind”. It is very interesting and very telling… about what’s going on in their minds indeed. Good for you for being honest with him and telling him what you’ve been feeling and thinking.

My impression from this is that he is still in Replay, but it is not giving him what he’s been looking for. He is trying all kind of activities and new things in hopes that he will find the answer for never ending happiness and passion (sigh…) I agree with Job, that if you have enough patience and are willing to give it some more time, you might see this through. I’m in a sort of a similar boat in terms of not being in a hurry with a D and giving this sitch some more time. Except my situation is different since H doesn’t come “home” to spend some time with me and family. We just have a business together, even though my part is not related to his and vice versa. However, I can relate how he is just like your H is not seeing any way to rekindle the R, probably having some guilt, and yes, has no passion…

It is interesting that your H realizes that some of his buddies (groups) behavior is ridiculous. And weight lifting is just “something to do”, LOL. Job is spot on, as always smile that he is not having as much fun as he pretends to have or would like to have.

2T, congratulations on hitting the item on our list with the mall shopping! I think you are doing great. I will be taking a page out of your book in case I need to have an honest conversation with my H about the state of the affair… At some point this needs to happen. I mean the conversation and the rest.


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Thanks Job and Bright for stopping by.

I've been thinking about your comment, Job, about the mask falling when the darkness falls. I wonder if having OW spend the evening and possibly the night is a way of keeping the night demons at bay? Like I said, I just don't get a serious vibe about her. He didn't have that "sparkle" in his eye when he brought her up like he did with the first one. But, then we didn't talk about her much at all. I could be way off, but I'm not picking up on the "urgency" that came with first one.

Bright, it's interesting that some people think they can just remain married and each partner can go off and live separate lives as if they aren't. I get that if it's for insurance or business or similar purposes, but when it isn't necessary ... why? Apparently where H is now, it's completely common. There are a lot of arranged marriages where the partners end up going in totally different directions, get involved with OP and even have kids, but they stay married so as not to bring shame on their families. In my mind, that is much more shameful than a D, but it's apparently totally acceptable there. It seems like that kind of stuff has polluted H's morals.

I imagine you will some day reach a point where you will want to move on and the talk will come. I can't imagine how I would handle things with no face to face interaction at all. You are a strong woman.

As for all the activities, your post got me thinking about all the stuff H has or says he's gotten involved with over there ...
  • The first OW
  • A business project that he poured himself into and couldn't make a success
  • A motorcycle
  • Racket Ball for a while
  • Golf (he did here long ago)
  • The Frat Boy Running club
  • A dive trip with a buddy he later dumped because the guy was a drunk
  • Joining a rec club so he could swim
  • Manicures
  • Massages
  • Cosmetic eye surgery
  • A new camera so he could get "back into" photography. I haven't heard it mentioned since and haven't seen any photos.
  • A second dive trip
  • Yoga/meditation retreats
  • Moving to a new apartment, where "buddies come to hang out every evening."
  • Biking club
  • Veneers on his teeth
  • Weight lifting
  • 2nd OW
  • Overnight motorcycle trip with buddies

I'm sure I'm missing some. I figure sooner or later, he HAS to run out of things to try. Right? Sooner or later, he has to wear himself out. Right? I guess only time will tell. I mean ... I'd be totally exhausted!

On a more serious note, he has been much different this trip back. He's been kind, considerate and completely respectful to me. He's come down on BIL a couple of times (BIL deserves it) and I saw shades of anger, but he kept it under control. But, with me there's been nothing but the best behavior.

I think asking him to move out of the house and going very dim with him has gotten across to him my respect boundary. Prior to that, he was horrible to me. It's 180 degrees different this time. We'll see if that lasts.

Saw the dermatologist today about the spot on my nose. She thinks it's either overactive oil glands or basal cell carcinoma. She wanted to do a biopsy by basically scraping it off my nose. When I asked about scarring, she said it would leave a scar (that would have been a pretty good size right in the center of my nose) and the only other option was to see a plastic surgeon to do the biopsy surgery and then a second surgery if it was cancerous. I told her we were talking about my face and I will risk two surgeries rather than be scarred up for life with a big scar if I could get away with just a couple of very small stitches. So that's where that stands.

Dinner with H tonight for the last time before he heads back.

All in all, this trip home hasn't been as bad as I expected. Yeah, the OW is pretty bad, but there is definitely something different in H's demeanor. Job, I think I'm going to bide my time for a while and see what happens. I have no reason to rush anything, so why do it.


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Just got back from dinner and OMG is he confused. So, more glimpses into the MLC mind as I relate this stuff.

We talked a lot about business and he implored me to keep him informed about what's going on over here. I explained how I felt about being between him and his brother and he said don't ever worry about that. He also said, without elaboration, that BIL puts blame on me for some of his missteps. I knew that. H did say, though, that he would believe me over BIL so I feel good that he still believes I have his best interest at heart, which I do. BIL is the type to shirk accountability and I'm so glad H finally sees that.

So, H is beginning to see that his plan (BIL running ops here) is not working out like he thought it would. FINALLY!

In the course of that convo, we both agreed that we didn't need to make any decisions today (alluding to D but that word never came up) but had time to sort things out. I think D is on the back burner for now, at least as far as he is concerned. For me, we'll see how the next couple of months go. I can take my time.

Toward the end of dinner, the convo turned to our personal relationship. He said he cared deeply about me and what happened to me in the future but he didn't have love for me. I said I understood that because I felt the same way about him, but I can't have loving feelings for him when he's always f'ing gone. (I rarely use the f word, so it had some impact.) I said there was no way for him to light my fire or me to light his when we were apart all the time. He said I had a point. What the heck does that mean?

I told him (after a period of thoughtful silence) that I really had to question if what we were doing was complete idiocy. I talked about how we had started out with pretty much nothing between the two of us and together we had achieved what we have today. I said I felt like we would both be worse off by going separate ways and the thing that bugged me the most about the whole situation. I said I questioned if this was a huge mistake. He said he questioned if what he was doing was the right thing, but he just didn't want to live here. He started to get a little agitated at this point.

That led me to calmly ask him why he didn't want to live here because I had never really asked him to express why he felt that way. He said he just he didn't. I pushed and asked why? What are the reasons? He really had to think about it, dig for a response, and finally came up with some answers. It was mostly political stuff but I think someone is influencing him here. His best friend left the US and I suspect that guy is bashing the US to him.

I told him I was concerned about his future. I said it had nothing to do with our personal R, but I cared about him and what happened to him. He thanked me for that. I said, "For instance, if you got really ill, would the friends you have there take care of you?" He immediately said, "No." So they are superficial friends who wouldn't really be there for him in a time of great need and he knows it.

I told him that some of his decisions really made me scratch my head. He said, "I scratch my head about some of my decisions, too." I can't remember the exact words he used, but he essentially said he knew his decisions may not be sound ones. So, he is apparently questioning his ability to make sound decisions.

I said I understood about the living in the US thing, but where is better? Europe? He said no. The Middle East? He said no. The Far East? He said no. I went on and every answer was no. I said that if I were in my 20s, moving somewhere else in the world might make sense, but at our age, it may not be a smart thing to do. He agreed with that, to my surprise.

I said that I had a lot of thinking to do about my future and that I wanted to take the time to figure out what I wanted in my life. I said I didn't want to move to Timbuktu and discover that I hated it and end up moving again after a year. He said he really hadn't thought that far into the future about where he wanted to live and such.

As he dropped me off, he said we needed to talk more. When I asked him to move out of the house, I told him I didn't want to talk to him other than business and I've pretty much stuck to that. H has alluded to that a couple of times while he's been here and I told him he could call whenever he liked. He's missed me??? He's missed talking to me???

Overall, I can see an incredibly confused man. He's a mess and I so wish I could help him, but I can't. I've done all I can think of to do to let him know that the door is open if chooses to walk through it and at the same time let him know that I am planning and ready to move on without him. I've said all I can think of to make him think twice about this new OW without calling her a home-wreaking s%$t. The ball is in his court. He has a lot to think about. Only time will tell what happens. Fortunately, I have time.


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H leaves tomorrow. My first thought about this "visit" is who is this guy?

My take away is that he's very confused and trying to figure out why he's done some of the things he's done and is still doing. The confusion and pain are so obvious that it just breaks my heart.

He tries to hide it, but he is very emotional. The day we spent together when the R talking started, he started wiping away tears, then said he had to go to the bathroom and shut the door (which he usually doesn't do ... even now). I think he was crying and had to pull himself together.

It is so sad to watch, but I stood strong ... doing my best to let him know the door is open, but I'm not counting on him walking through it.

All I can say at this point is this guy is very different from one I've been dealing with the past 2 1/2 years. Uncharted waters here.


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2x2Many - it must be awfully confusing when they wake up a little and wonder what they have done/what they are doing. How frightening to scratch your own head at the decisions you are making.

It must help a little bit to hear him apologize for the way he's treated you, though? And for a guy who spends a lot of time talking about his "friends" and how he needs to be social, he certainly sounds lonely.

And yes, he seems lost from himself.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
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HaWho, it was good to hear him apologize. I can't count how many times he used the phrase "I regret." The thing I liked hearing the most was, "None of this was your fault. You didn't do anything wrong." I just replied that I realized that. I said I knew I had my issues, but none of them rose to the level of causing something like this. He validated!

But I know he's not done baking so I think I'll just bide my time for a while and see what happens next with him while I keep working on me and moving forward.

Job, I had to chuckle when he left the office this morning because he reminded me of what you said about MLCers not having a sense of time. He gave me a hug and said "See you in a couple of weeks." He's not due back until July and the last time I looked at the calendar, that looked to be a little more than a couple of weeks. confused

Sadly, I had to cancel my trip to see my sister this weekend. I've come down with a cold and given the issues she's had with respiratory problems, I just didn't want to take the chance of making her sick. I'll reschedule for some time in June. I was really looking forward to seeing her and her h.

I just made the appointment for the plastic surgeon to address the issue, whatever it is, on my nose. That also comes up in June. That surgeon is through our HMO. The laser treatments I've been getting are done in another plastic surgeons office and I have another treatment in two weeks. I think I'm going to see if I can get a consult with one of the surgeons there for a second opinion about my nose. I'm always leery of dermatologists. They sometimes seem so focused on fixing the skin issue that they don't really care about how you look when they're done. Hope I haven't offended anyone here.


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2T, I glad that you got some apologies. I am pretty sure it would make feel better too. It gives me hope that maybe one day I will also receive some apologies from my H. I think you are making the right decision to not bring the D subject and give it some more time. I was just looking through my notes that I keep from this board, some books, some other online sites that I read, etc. Here is one that Wonka posted on some thread (I don’t know if I can find it now, but I have the copy of her post, and I hope she doesn’t mind me quoting her):
“MLCers are dead set in D because they cannot cope with the M and are not available to nuture the M. Their coping mechanisms are broken down at this point and cannot deal with the enormity of their sitch. Again, ignore H's comment every time he brings up D talk. If he persists, just simply say, "Sure go ahead and file D. However, I will not do the papewerwork for you."

I thought about you when I read this. I remember you said that your H was bringing the D subject every time he came for a visit, except for the last few visits. Maybe it is not applicable anymore, but I thought I would post it for you. You are pretty much already told him something similar anyway.

Originally Posted By: 2Times2Many
All I can say at this point is this guy is very different from one I've been dealing with the past 2 1/2 years. Uncharted waters here.

This is something, 2T! At least there is some movement! I’m sure you can figure out what to do with the “new” guy, LOL.

I’m leery of dermatologists too… How big is this spot? Does it bother you? I recently watched some documentary about cancer. It just enforced my belief that there are some alternative treatments to cutting, chemo, radiation, etc. Have you tried to research on this? Just my opinion. I know a lot of people don’t believe in alternative treatments. I just hope you will get this taken care off in the best possible way.

2T, take care. And thank for always stopping at my thread.


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Wow, now that's a biggie: hearing that none of this was your fault. Bright is spot on, that is movement! Given his confusion I would be very curious to know how much he even remembers about all that he did do? Hmm.

Thanks for sharing.

Best of luck finding a specialist. I am thinking the plastic surgeons may be able to show you projected "after" pictures? Maybe they even have before and afters of similar procedures from other patients.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
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Hi HW and Bright. Thanks for stopping by.

I did manage to schedule a consult on the nose thing that coincides with my next laser treatment. The surgeon is the same one who did H's eye surgery a couple of years ago and I was impressed with her work. I don't know anything about the HMO surgeon except he looks young, has 9 years experience and I guess that since he's associated with the HMO, there is not a lot of results info out there. It also bugged me a little that his office called me to schedule the procedure and didn't want to do a consult first. The nurse said he looked at the pictures the dermatologist sent over and talked to her, and he didn't need a consult. That doesn't sit quite right with me.

Bright, the spot is maybe a quarter of inch in diameter and is right smack in the middle of the top of my nose.

Thank you for sharing Wonka's quote. I think it's right on the money. H has been all over the place about D. He wants one, he doesn't want one, he wants one. He doesn't want to be a husband, he doesn't want to be married, he can't give me what I need, he isn't capable of being a husband. Then he wants to try, he doesn't want a d. Then back to a D. All over the place.

Of course, his big fantasy is for us to D and stay business partners and friends. I shot that down the first time he said it and had to shoot it down again during this last trip. I chalk that garbage up to MLC thinking because if he was thinking clearly, he'd know I would never agree to something like that. If he really wants a D, he can do the dirty work and I will make it a clean cut. I won't be hanging around in any capacity.

So, I want to jot down some thoughts about this last trip because I don 't want to forget them and want to be able to refresh my memory later. Please bear with me. I think this will be long.

H seems to be very open to suggestion ...

I suggested to H that now that he had a nice smile he might consider changing his WhatsApp pic to one with a smile instead of the serious one he has now. He found one on his phone and changed the pic that night.

When we went shopping, he wanted my opinion on what color shirt to buy. I suggested a color saying it brought out his eyes and he bought it. He wore it the next day.

He wanted my help in selecting a pair of pants to match some shirts he had. He bought what I suggested.

He asked for my help in selecting pictures to take back to hang on his walls even though I have no clue what his place or his furniture looks like.

It came across to me that he wants help in decision making. That seemed odd to me because for the past two years he's been adamant about what he wants and how he wants things done.

This is the kind of stuff that really concerns me. He has a friend over there that is married, but hasn't seen his wife in 10 years. They stay M for financial reasons. The guy has been living with the same OW for most of that time. I think this is where H gets the idea that we can go separate ways and continue to be business partners.

This same guy told H that he should divide his day into thirds. One third work, one third play, one third sleep. H said that after he calls into the office, his play time starts. I told him I knew that and I'd made a point not to interfere with his "me" time or his life over there. He said he knew that.

I really have some concerns about how these kinds of people influence him given where his head is at. But there's nothing I can do about it

Social Activities ...

H has insisted for some time that he is a "social animal" and insinuated that I have held him back and prevented him from enjoying a social life. I enjoy getting out and having some fun, but I don't want to do it every night, I want to enjoy the company of people who behave like adults and I don't want them at my house every night of the week.

I gave that some thought and brought it back up the next day. I told him that I had social activity all day long at the office. That we joked, talked about sports, politics, movies, etc. and when I got home, I wanted a little quiet time. I said he, on the other hand, spent his day in solitude, working out of his apt. so at the end of the day, he wanted some interaction and stimulation through social activity. I told him that when I had several days off with nothing on my agenda, I was the same way. After a couple of days I was climbing the walls and wanted to get out of the house.

He looked thoughtful and said he never thought about it that way. Then he recalled the organization we used to work for and the days we would drive home and just wanted quiet ... we didn't even turn on the radio.

Happiness ....

He said he wanted to be happy and he wanted me to be happy but he knew that came from the inside. I told him I thought about happiness and the last time I was truly, blissfully happy. I said it was .... he finished the sentence with the exact time period I was going to say, which was just before MLC part 1. He said he thinks he was happy then because his needs and his wants were the same and both were met. He said he'd never thought about that before and would have to give it some more thought.

I told him I wanted that kind of happiness again but I knew I couldn't find it living the way I was now. He started talking about the "happy" things he did and that led to a discussion about the difference between being happy and enjoying the pleasure of the moment.

His friends ...

He said a lot of his friends didn't work. He said they had inherited valuable property, mortgaged it, bought rental property and lived off that. He said they spent most of their time with social activities. (That bad influence again.) I said that must be nice, but I accepted long ago that I was a Saturday's child and I would have to work hard for a living.

I brought that up again the next day and said that based on what I had read, men especially, needed to accomplish things, build things (like his business) and provide for their families. I questioned what kind of satisfaction or fulfillment his friends got from the way they lived. He kind of defended them. I said I could never do "nothing" and I didn't think he was the type to do that either. He said, no, he couldn't and that he had to have something productive to do. That was completely opposite his plan to let BIL run the company while he did little to no work and still made money

Depression ...

H met my IC many years ago when I was having some unrelated issues, so he knows her. I was talking about how much she has helped me and mentioned that she was concerned about him. I said that based on things I had said, she wondered if he was depressed.

H said he wasn't depressed but was "depressive." He clarified saying not manic/depressive, but he had depressive thoughts. He said he would imagine how other people were thinking or feeling and he always imagined the worst. I said he had done that with me. He said he knew that and he was working on it. He said when he starts thinking that way now he tries to meditate or find other avenues to stop that way of thinking.

A couple of hours later, he said maybe he was depressed.

BIL ...

BIL is a nice guy but I realized early on that he may be able to manage a business, but he doesn't have what it takes to make it grow. H appears to have finally realized that as well. He said he knew BIL couldn't do it. I told him that I wasn't tooting my own horn because I couldn't fill his (h's) shoes, but if I hadn't been keeping an eye on things, he wouldn't have a company right now. He said he knew that. I think this is why he is so desperate to keep me on board.

The new OW ...

I've given this a lot of thought. I've been trying to figure out why I'm not in a panic over this. I think it's because my self-esteem has reached a point that I'm very comfortable with who I am. I just don't believe this trollop can hold a candle to me. I can't imagine H saying to her some of the things he said to me this past week or opening up to her about things like depression. There is no way she could ever understand or "get" him the way I do, and based on our conversations, I believe h realizes that (somewhere in that fog), too. But more than that, I know that if H chose her over me, it would be his choice and his loss. And if he went that route, I'd be better off without him because he truly would be off his rail.

Thanks to everyone for letting me journal. I really needed to get that stuff out of my head but put it somewhere I could
return to.

Hope everyone has a good weekend.


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2x2Many I'm just catching up with your news about the "interesting" last few days with your H, thank you for the insight into the MLC mind. I think it is such a huge step the fact that he apologised and he sees how much he hurt you.

Also I just wanted to say that I had a Bacall Cell Carcinoma near my eye which I had surgically removed two years ago. I was fortunate enough to be offered Mohs Surgery and I am confident that it was the best option as it has the best success rate. I agree that you shouldn't let your dermatologist just remove it, you should definitely have a biopsy first! I don't know if you can PM me (I'm still new) but if you can, and if you need more information on BCC please don't hesitate to do so.


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





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2T--catching up with your sitch. Some really great stuff going on. Not just in the R with your H, but inside your own mind, it seems. I love your perspective.

I really appreciate and understand your thoughts on "new OW." This is how I feel too--it will be his choice/his loss.

You are so far ahead of me on this crazy journey and I do not know how you have managed. I have barely slept in 6 months and have lost 30 lbs.

I hope and pray things turn out well with your 'nose thing.' It sounds scary for sure.

Happy Mothers Day to you. Enjoy. Any plans?


Me 47 H 49 S18 S15
M 21
BD #1 11/09/15 ILYBNILY
I believe we are Piecing 1/2/16
Suspect EA/PA? 2/28/16
BD #2 "He tried, but needs passion." 2/28/16
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2T - I don't really have anything to add except, just like Melweb, I love your perspective.

Glad you are taking good care of your health issues by asking questions and being thorough. Hoping everything goes smoothly - please be sure to keep us in the loop.


M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters
BD: 5/14
Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW
D Final 9/17

“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.”
― Maya Angelou



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Gwen, thank you for the post and the encouragement.

My perspective? Like most of us here, I was very much like Ms. Gaynor sang about. Petrified. But as time went by, I realized that although I wanted my H (at least the H he used to be) in my life, I didn't need him to survive. It's been a long road to get to that point, but I think we all do realize at some point the we have no control over what they do or think. We only have control over ourselves. And with that realization comes the real reward of our journey. We will survive and thrive despite what has happened.

My heart goes out to those with children because I honestly don't know how I would handle that. It puts an entirely different perspective on things and it has to be a much more difficult road to travel. I have nothing but the utmost respect and admiration for those trying to navigate those waters.

Mel, I don't have any plans for tomorrow. I was supposed to be traveling back from my sister's before I came down with this stinking cold, so no special plans with my kids or grandkids. But I did head out to the store and picked up a steak and german chocolate cake (my favorite). Thanks for the inspiration.


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Okay, so get this.

When H was here he told BIL (and me) that he would be coming back every month after July, even if only for 3 or 4 days, so he'd have a better understanding of how things are going here. He really needs to do that. I have a hard time handling his bull-headed B and it's reflected in the finances.

BIL said he told H that he shouldn't come back every month because it really wasn't necessary and we could save the travel expenses.

I was stunned. I listened to him as he continued with his reasoning and finally interrupted, saying, Thanks, BIL, for encouraging my H not to come home. End of conversation.

It's not enough I have to worry about suggestions and advice H gets from his "friends" over there, but now I have to worry about BIL too? I just wonder how he'd feel if his W walked away and I was encouraging her to stay away? Wow. Just wow!

I hope all the Mom's out there had a great Mother's Day.


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How did your H respond to BIl's suggestions 2times2many? Honestly I wonder why your BIL felt that he should offer his wisdom, if your H says he NEEDS to be home for a few days every month, unless he asked BIL to pay his travel expenses I don't understand why your BIL got involved. Sometimes I'm thankful we are thousands of miles away from our families, because in a way they can complicate things. My sister has regular problems with her SIL and BIL, and I find myself thankful that H is an only child. I'm sure your BIL thought he was offering useful advice, but it really was not what neither you or your H wanted to hear.

I hope you are well, thank you for all the wonderful advice in my thread.


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





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I surely would have a sit down w/that BIL of yours and advise him that if your h wants to return periodically, then it is your h's business. I think your BIL is enjoying being in charge, so to speak, while your h is at the other location. He wants to look important and come across as not only being productive, but knowledgeable in all things. He likes the fact that he's not being watched or questioned about his work.

Your BIL has his own agenda and I would be watching him more closely.


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Job, I have always felt BIL had his own agenda and I do believe he gets his ego fed by running the ops here. I've been trying to delicately point out to H for a long while that BIL does not have H's or my best interest at heart. I will be having a conversation with BIL.

On to the biggie ...

This morning I went into H's office here and the odor was unmistakable - I remember it well from my high school/college days. He left a baggie in his office drawer.

To say I was shocked would be an understatement. Although I wondered if he was dabbling (given the "friends" he has over there and what he's told me about his high school days), I had no proof. Now I have it.

I don't know what to do. Do I let him know I found it? Do I keep my mouth shut? What do I do?


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I would get rid of the baggie and when the opportunity should arise, I would say..."h, I went into your office to get something and it reeked of a foul odor. When I found where the odor was coming from, I discovered the baggie. I flushed the stuff down the drain and aired the office out.

Well, I'm not surprised that he's dabbling into something. They all tend to experiment (again) from days gone by.

As for the BIL, tread gently, but he needs to understand that he's an employee and will need to keep his opinions to himself about whether or not your h needs to come into the office. After all, it's a business that both you and your h own...am I correct on this?

Get rid of the baggie! Do not share what you found w/the BIL.


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Originally Posted By: job
Do not share what you found w/the BIL.


Too late. BIL just walked out of my office after telling me I needed to go check out H's top desk drawer. UGH!


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I'll tread lightly with BIL, Job. The problem is when H decided to fly the coop, he brought BIL in and told BIL he would be "running" things here and H would be running things over there. It has gone to BIL's head. (Yes, H and I are 50/50 owners. At the time I thought H was trying to force me out and maybe he was ... IDK). I actually heard BIL tell H last week not to address the employees about things he sees that need to be addressed, but to tell him (BIL) and let him address it.

Of course, I see what's going on, but I'm not sure H does. It really stinks being in a position of trying to make H see that his B doesn't necessarily have his back without coming right out and saying you're B is being a snake in the grass. I fear H might think I'm using that as a ploy to get him to come home and I don't want it to look like that. At least H knows BIL tries to play us against one another like a kid trying to get Mom to say yes after Dad said no.

OMG, I have man-children all around me!

On the subject of my latest discovery, I'm sitting here in the office wondering when and how to handle that one when I get a delivery of flowers from H with a note wishing me a late Happy Mother's Day. I suppose they came late because he knew I was supposed to be traveling on Sunday and would be out of the office on Monday. So, I guess saying anything about this latest thing will be put on the back burner for a while since I don't want to appear ungrateful for his gesture.


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I would certainly send a text to your h and thank him for the flowers. That was a very thoughtful gesture and one that he needs to be recognized for, i.e., a baby step.

About the BIL, yes, the authority has gone to his head. The most logical way to handle this is to start documenting when he does something that isn't proper. At some point, the documentation will need to be provided to your h. Don't cover and/or enable your BIL. If he's making mistakes, then he will need to make them right. I know you don't want to see this stuff happen, but your h won't know what's really going on if you go behind this man and clean up his messes. You h can't dispute documentation and examples of what transpired.

I wouldn't say anything at this time about what was found. What I am concerned about is that your BIL found it and might make a mountain out of a mole hill w/your h about it. Your BIL is very resentful/jealous of what you and your h have and he will most likely use passive-aggressive behavior to play one against the other. Continue to tread lightly around him. I don't trust him as he may be the one trying to get you out of the business.

Enjoy your flowers. Truly, this is a baby step and one that can be enjoyed for a few days this week.


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Thanks, Job. I sent a thank you text to H right away. It is a baby step. I got nothing for Valentine's Day and I can't recall him ever sending flowers for Mother's Day.

BIL has been making mistakes. I tried working with him and teaching him at first, but it became pretty obvious that he didn't want to listen to me. H kept saying he was "still learning" when I'd bring up something, so I stopped. I was coming across as the problem and a Negative Nancy trying to upset H's "plan" so I STFU.

Then, I just kind of sat back and gave BIL enough rope to hang himself without doing great damage to the company, but doing enough that H couldn't possibly miss where the problem was coming from. I hated doing that because it did some damage (although reversible) but I just couldn't see any other way to make H see that his "plan" would lose him his business altogether.

H has made a few comments along the lines of he'll fire BIL if he has to, he'll spend more time checking up on him, etc. He said last week that he realizes BIL will never be able to run this business for him. So, he is aware on some level. But I know the pull of the fantasy life is still there. However, as I said in a previous post, I think BIL inadvertently turned the lights on in the theater when H took a good long look at BIL's performance and found that his (H's) neglect was beginning to affect his (H's) future.

I think my plan is to do the following: H practically begged me to keep him informed of what is going on here and I will start sending emails once or twice a week to recap. I'll just state the facts ... this happened, that happened ... with no comment or opinion attached. H can draw his own conclusions.

I think you're correct about resentment and jealousy on BIL's part. I learned long ago to be cautious what I say to him, because he does try to throw me under the bus and will lie to H to do that. It usually comes in the form of trying to blame me for his errors. I think H believed him for a while but I don't think that's still the case. H mentioned the playing one against the other and said he will believe what I tell him.

I think the thing I dislike about BIL the most is he will say he's worried about H and is praying for him, but when he comes across something like today, he actually comes across as kind of amused ... I guess that's the best word for it. And he has said horrible things to me in the past about H, basically accusing H of using me and saying I could destroy him in a way that almosst seemed like he would enjoy seeing that. How do you tell your H things like that about his B? Especially when you fear BIL will turn it around and say YOU said those things when you know your H is looking for excuses not to want you in his life.

BIL is also very quick to "tattle" on H when the opportunity presents itself as if he wants to upset me or make me angry at H. It's not at all brotherly and it's very obvious he is no friend of the marriage.

You know, I've tried for the longest time to look for the best in BIL, teach him, guide him and hope he can pull things together for the company's sake. I've always considered him a decent, family guy. Just kind of a nitwit in certain areas. I really thought he was concerned about H and wanted to see him work through whatever issues were plaguing him.

But now that I've written all that above and have thought about other things he's said and/or done, it looks more and more like BIL is trying to drive a wedge between H and I, trying to keep us from making any progress in our personal R. Maybe BIL fears we won't need him in the business if H comes back (and he would be right) and this is his way of maintaining job security? Help our M stay on the rocks so H won't come home? How sad is that? That a one brother would do that to another?


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2x, you nailed it I think, sad as it is to say that. Hey though - here's a positive: at least you have awareness now and awareness is a powerful tool in your arsenal.

Enjoy your flowers and keep your guard up with BIL. xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
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BD 4/6/15
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Esame, BIL got involved (and stays involved) because in the beginning H led BIL to believe he was a part of the decision making team and would "fill" H's shoes. But H was deep, deep in the fog at that time. BIL gets his nose out of joint anytime H and I make a decision and don't include him in on the decision making progress. At first H wanted BIL included. Now H's attitude is more along the lines of it's his company, he doesn't need his B's input and he doesn't care whether BIL agrees with his decisions or not. That is light years away from where H was in the beginning.

bttrfly, awareness IS a powerful tool and what makes me feel even better is that I think H is gaining some awareness when it comes to BIL.

I sent H an "update" email last night and included the discovery in the desk drawer. I didn't make any comment other than I flushed it.

I thought a lot about BIL, the sitch with him, Job's wise words, awareness (bttrfly) and where I think H is at regarding the business and his B. I sent a separate email and addressed some of my fears and concerns about BIL's motivations. It was a calm, just matter-of-fact email with no blame casting ... more a "here are my concerns" email.

I had a text this morning from H saying my email was spot on and he felt the same way I did (in regard to BIL). He said (later, on the phone) he was going to confront BIL as soon as he finished talking with me. That sent shivers down my spine. That's the last thing I need. I asked that he not do that because it would just make working with him more difficult. I said that kind of reaction is the reason I hadn't said anything before now and I did not want to cause trouble between him and his B, but only wanted to pass along my observations because he should know what's going on in his business. H agreed not to say anything.

I could hear in his voice that he was angry (although I knew it wasn't aimed at me) and after BIL talked to him, BIL commented that H was in "some mood today." I didn't comment. I think I'll give H some time to process and cool down for a while. He knows I don't want drama and fireworks, so I'll let him come to me when he's calmer and wants to discuss this stuff.

This sitch has been stressful. I was raised in a family where there was always drama going on between the various in-laws and such. There was a ton of she said/did this and he said/did that and people were mad at each other all the time and who was mad at who could change at the drop of a hat. It was ridiculous.

I've always had an attitude of minding my own business, particularly in family situations, so this is tough for me. It would be one thing if BIL weren't an in-law but it's quite another when you worry you may adversely affect family dynamics no matter how necessary. It stinks. At least for now, though, H and I seem to be on the same page.

Regarding the baggie, I got exactly what I expected ... "It wasn't for me. It was for someone else." I had to chuckle under my breath. I accepted his response, asked no questions and changed the subject.

I'm so looking forward to a relaxing weekend. Then a two day workweek next week. Another facial is on tap and I'll also see the plastic surgeon about my nose while I'm there. Hopefully, I'll have some direction about that by this time next week.

Less that a month until I invade NYC!

My best to everyone.

2T


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Very well done! You handled all of the situations that were swirling around the office area w/dignity and grace. I liked the way you handled the surprised package you found. Of course, it wasn't his. LOL!

I do think that once your h has some time to mull things over, he will have a chat w/your BIL about the way things are going. In my opinion, that chat would be much more productive if done in person...but we know how the MLCers are...it's either email or phone.

Continue moving forward...you've got some events coming your way to focus on. The trip to NY will a pleasant break and hopefully, things will have settled down for you.


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Well done 2times2many, you have been amazing in dealing with everything. Can I also add that it sounds like a positive to me the fact that your H is respecting your opinion regarding his brother and the business? Maybe your BIL's interfering will have the opposite effect to the one he wanted (I feel Like he was trying to push your H further away?)

I hope there will be loads more baby steps on your H's part.


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
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Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

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Thank you so much, Esame, for stopping by. I read your latest posts and I have some thoughts I want to post to you, but it may be tomorrow. Hope you don't mind. I will say this for now ... don't expect any kind of romance or affection. There were so many times that I yearned for H to give me just a simple, yet genuine, hug and was left yearning. It's goes with the territory and it's best not to expect it.

I saw my IC yesterday and we talked a lot about H's behavior while he was here and the things he said. She thinks he is a lot of pain and I agree. She also said the issues with seeking my opinion about things like what color shirt or pants to buy or decorating a place I've never seen is classic depression ... the inability to make a decision. If you throw in the "waking up" to poor decisions in the last couple of years, it just makes it worse. Talking to her about all that just made my heart ache for him.

Another thing we talked a lot about was BIL and triangulation. I didn't know much about triangulation, so started doing some research and it seems to apply here. It's a tactic that people with narcissistic tendencies use a lot. I don't think my BIL is a narcissist in the sociopath way of things, but maybe the tendency is there? It sure seems like he's trying to pit H and I against each other to his "ego" benefit.

But beyond that, I started thinking about H and the OW. I think I've seen it mentioned here and there on the forum that people in MLC have narcissistic tendencies. I know my H does or, at least did for some time. And getting involved with OW would be placing the two of us (OW and I) "against" each other, fighting for the "prize," which would be him. If I refuse to fight, then the triangle is broken. The whole sitch doesn't give him the high he's seeking. I fell for that a couple of years ago and got all bent out of shape, but this time it was "Oh, okay." I think that might break the triangle?? Refusing to play the "game?" Lots to think about.

MIL fell again about a week ago. She is paralyzed on one side (from a stoke) so when she goes down, she can't protect herself and falls hard. She broke 6 ribs and has developed pneumonia. She was admitted to the hospital yesterday. My heart goes out to her. She is an awesome woman and life has been tough for her the past 20 years. FIL strained his back trying to get her into her wheelchair yesterday to get her to then doctor for xrays, so he's not doing great either.

The thing that is most heartbreaking is that we moved where we are now to be here for H's parents and H is nowhere around when they really need him. So sad.

I hope everyone has great weekend plans. I was hoping to finish up my gardens this weekend, but I may be spending time at the hospital with MIL. I really need to finish that planting before the nurseries sell out of annuals. But I'll go with the flow and where I feel I'm needed. There are more important things in life than petunias.

My best to everyone.

2T


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I am so sorry to read about your MIL and FIL. I do hope that they are okay. Do they have someone that comes in weekly to help them out? This may be something to discuss w/your h since he's out of state so much.

Your IC is correct about the "inability to make a decision" as symptom of depression. That's one of the reasons they put things off because they can't put one foot in front of the other when it comes to making decisions. Your h is in a lot of pain and it's going to take some time for him to recover from this. It's all about him and finding ways to cope and relieve the pain right now.

I have read about triangulation and it's definitely a tactic and one that people aren't even aware of when it happens to them. Yes, it's an ego trip for your BIL when he pits the two of you against each other. It makes him look like the bigger "man" in the situation. Now you have a good idea of what you are dealing w/and can handle the situation w/the BIL. Stop and think about it...he took great pleasure in telling you about the desk and what was in it. He was hoping for a heated phone conversation about the "treasure". He didn't get it.

During the crisis, personality disorders tend to "flare up", i.e., such as narcissistic tendencies. Think about it, a two year old wants what he wants when he wants it and if he doesn't get it, on the floor he goes, stomping his feet and holding his breath. It's being selfish during MLC and hopefully those tendencies will settle down once the crisis is over and done with. The same thing happens w/passive-aggressive behavior in MLC...it comes out to play even more so.

Spend as much time as you can w/your in-laws this weekend. They need you now more than ever. The garden will be there waiting for you when you return home.

Keeping you and your family in my thoughts and prayers.


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2T I am so sorry for your MIL (and FIL), I hope they are recovering well, it is such a same that due to the situation your H is not around for them as much. How does he feel about that?

Originally Posted By: 2Times2Many

If I refuse to fight, then the triangle is broken. The whole sitch doesn't give him the high he's seeking. I fell for that a couple of years ago and got all bent out of shape, but this time it was "Oh, okay." I think that might break the triangle?? Refusing to play the "game?" Lots to think about.
2T


That is an interesting theory, it could even be seen as a different 180? You not participating in his games I mean.

I hope you are having a lovely weekend.


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





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Hey 2T, I've been keeping up with your updates. Just didn't have time to post. The BIL "story" sounds a bit worrisome. I would stay clear of any comments or interventions for now. I think you are doing great, going about your life and what you want, and still being friendly to your H. As long as it is not a burden, LOL. I'm on the same boat for now.

Take care. I will try to post more often.


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How is everything 2T? Are you ok? Your in laws? I hope everyone is well. Take care and let us know how everything is coming along.


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





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Hi Esame. Thanks for checking on me.

Things on the MLC front have been quiet. I did get a text from H a few days ago saying he was on to his brother's "game" and wasn't going to play. He said as far as the business goes, BIL won't be influencing any of his (H's) decisions, that I was the only one who had any sway. So that was kind of nice to hear.

I saw the Plastic Surgeon today and she did the biopsy on my nose and I should get the results early next week. She did say that if it is basal cell carcinoma, she would be referring to me to someone who will do the Moh's surgery. I feel like I've made a good decision going outside my HMO plan for this and am really comfortable that this group will take good care of me and not treat me like just another body streaming through their office. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it is benign.

MIL is still in the hospital. They're concerned because her blood oxygen remains low. They were to do more tests today, so we'll see what that reveals. She's getting quite frustrated. She wants to go home.

Hope things are going well for everyone.


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I'm glad the Plastic Surgeon let you know about the results early in the week. I give her kudos for telling you that if it is basal cell carcinoma, she would be referring you to someone who does the Moh's surgery. Yes, you made an excellent decision by going outside your HMO. You may end up paying a bit of out of pocket money, but it is well worth seeking medical care outside the HMO every now and then and this is one of those times.

I'm sorry to hear that your MIL is still in the hospital and they are running tests on her. She sounds like she's ready to come home and I can understand her frustration. Tests aren't fun, cost a lot of money and are time consuming...besides you very seldom get a good night's rest in the hospital.

I'm keeping both you in my thoughts and prayers. Sending positive thoughts your way.


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Hi 2x2Many - sorry to hear about your MIL. I will have her in my thoughts and prayers.

As for you, glad you went with the best possible care, for health and cosmetic reasons. There is something to be said for peace of mind.

And that's very nice your h gave you the vote of confidence over your BIL. I just caught up on your thread and given how divisive BIL has been, it's best you keep both eyes on him.

Thinking of you as you await those results.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
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Hi 2x
Echoing others here with keeping good thoughts for you and your MIL ... good idea to get more personalized care. I worked for a dermatopathologist for 6 years, so this was def. the right approach to take.

yay that H has it tog enough to take your side over BIL xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

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MIL is home but is on oxygen and at the moment is bedridden due to the broken ribs. But nursing care will be coming in and hopefully she will soon be able to get up and moving some. Right now, she's just happy to be at home.

I haven't spoken to H since Tuesday at the office. I sent a text about the biopsy since he asked that I keep him posted about that and received a short response but no other contact.

In MLC land ...

When I asked H to move out of the house last October, I told him I didn't want any contact except about the business. At the time, he was treating me with a ton of disrespect in person and otherwise, acting like he could say and do anything and I'd put up with it, and I felt like I needed to let him know I wouldn't tolerate that stuff. He has done as I asked.

When he was here last time, he mentioned twice that I had asked him not to call and he had respected my wishes. He vaguely alluded to wanting to call once in a while just to talk about issues he may be having with suppliers or "other stuff" going on in his life. I told him to call any time he liked and that I'd enjoy talking to him.

To this point, he hasn't initiated contact (other than at the office) with the exception of a brief call on Mother's Day.

I feel like the time we spent together and the conversations we had when he was here were productive and I don't want that to fade away over the next two months. But I don't want to push or pursue.

I've been trying to decide if it's best to just let him be or if I should slightly open a window to encourage some contact from him since he alluded to that when he was here. If he wants to call more frequently for things other than business, then I want him to feel like he can and that I'm fine with that (now). But I want him to initiate contact because HE wants to and he feels like it's safe to do so. I don't want to come across as wanting or expecting him to call more. Am I making any sense?

I've decided to try an experiment. I sent an email this morning of the type one friend would send another. Nothing personal and absolutely no R stuff. It included things like I got this taken care of and I called that repair guy like he suggested. I gave him an update on my sister since he usually asks about her and said a few words about MIL. I also asked if he'd hung the pictures we bought when he was here and if the pants looked good with the shirts he was trying to match. Then wished him a great weekend. (On a side note, I always hate wishing him a great day or enjoyable evening because in the back of my mind I wonder if I just wished him a great time doing something I may not particularly be happy about.)

I'm curious to see what, if any, response I get to that. I'm not sure if that was the right thing to do or not. A year ago it absolutely would not have been as I was still the enemy and the cause of all his misery. I don't think I'm in that role anymore, so maybe sending the email was safe?? Time will tell, I suppose.


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They do tend to remember some of the things that we tell them while in MLC land and one of those things is when we tell them not to contact us.

You've got the perfect excuses to stay in touch, i.e., business and his mother. BTW, I'm glad she's home and she'll get more rest in her own bed.

When something isn't working, try something different. Test the waters and if he comes out swinging, you'll know not to try that move again.

Enjoy your weekend!


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I'm chuckling, Job. Of course they remember us telling them not to contact us. That's music to their ears! Freedom!!!!

I don't know that what I was doing wasn't working. I think there has been some movement ... at least a little bit seemed evident. I just remember what you said about him not seeing a way back or a way to build a new R. I want him to see the possibility without pushing or pursuing. I'm just uncertain about how to do that.

Those uncharted waters. Ugh.


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Good to hear your MIL is back in her quiet home.

As for your h remembering being told you wanted NC, of course they never remember all they did to incite that request. It would be interesting to ask "do you know why I wanted NC?"

Post BD, when my h ran downstairs and built his dorm room he told me he wanted space and time. And he told me he wanted a lot of space and time. In fact, he explicitly told me he didn't even want me walking the dog with him!

Months later, when he told me he no longer needed space, I temp. checked and asked about the r. He told me he was hurt that I never came downstairs even once to sleep with him in his bed!!! I reminded him that he told me to leave him alone and not to even walk the dog with him. And I asked, so why on earth would I crawl into bed with you?!? His answer: "oh yeah, I forgot. You're right."

I need to wheel an anti - MLC IV all around the house with me.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
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They tend to have selective memory. They remember what they want and the rest is fluff and hope and pray that you don't remember everything that they said and did along the way.


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Well, it appears the email worked.

This morning he sent pics of his pictures on the wall and pillows on the couch and thanked me for the email. I texted back that his place looked nice and I was glad it all worked out for him.

He immediately called and we spent about 20 minutes in friendly conversation about this and that ... a few minutes about BIL and MIL, but mostly just chit-chat.

HaWho, it's interesting how people will say one thing - basically laying down a boundary - and then get upset when you don't cross it. It's like they're testing you and you are supposed to figure out whether they mean what they say or if you're supposed to read their mind and ignore what that say.

In my case, I meant what I said. The final straw was when he jumped down my throat in a restaurant lobby (in front of others) because I went into the restaurant to meet him instead of looking for him in his car in the parking lot. We had an awkward lunch, I spent the rest of the afternoon in the mall spending money I didn't need to spend and then when I finally went home, I found myself hoping his car wasn't in the garage when I hit the opener.

In the long run, it was constructive because I regained my self-respect and he treats me much better now. I feel like he once again treats me with some respect and I'm okay with walking that NC dog back a little, but I'm not sure how to do it discreetly. Maybe the email was the way to go. We'll see if the seed takes root, I suppose.


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Hope everyone has had a good weekend.

I've been thinking a lot about MIL today. I feel so bad for her because I know where she is right now is not the way she wants to live. She is paralyzed on one side, has broken ribs, is on oxygen and at the moment is completely bedridden. Having dealt with both my Mom and Dad as their health declined, I worry that this may be the beginning of her slide toward the end. My heart breaks for her.

But beyond that, I've been thinking about how things have transpired over the past 9 months. I asked H last September not to stay here when he comes home and he's been staying with his parents. As a result, he's had a lot more interaction with his Mom than he would have even if he were still living here. He's also seen first hand, on a daily basis, what his Dad is going through to take care of his Mom.

I think maybe I see God's hand at work here. That brings me a great deal of peace because I see that He gave me the strength to do what I did so H would have the opportunity to spend more quality time with his Mom and have a greater appreciation for the sacrifices his Dad (who is not his birth father) has made. It's as though, in spite of H's selfishness, God has seen fit to give him the peace he would not have found had he not been "forced" to spend time with his parents.

I hope that his Mom recovers and lives many more years, but if she continues to deteriorate, at least H has had an opportunity to spend quality time with her now. If my actions made that possible, then I'm good with that.

Just a few thoughts.

Tomorrow I go back to the surgeon to have my stitches removed and get the results of the biopsy. I'm a little concerned because the right side of my nose, below the incision, is swollen and very tender. That just came about today and I'm hoping it's nothing to be concerned about.


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good luck 2morrow and keeping you and your family in my prayers xoxoxo typing 1 handed


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Good luck with your results 2T. I hope everything goes well. It is reassuring that you can have the Mohs surgery. It really is the best option, for safety and cosmetic result. My bacal cell carcinoma was very visible too (in the eye canthus) and it was very tricky to operate on. It is hardly visible now, so I'm really pleased with the result.

Let us know how it went please xxx


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





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God does have a way of making things happen when they need to happen. I agree...it's been a blessing in disguise that your h has had to spend some "quality" time w/his parents when he comes home.

I am keeping your family in my thoughts and prayers. It's never easy to see a loved one suffering and knowing that that is not the way that they want to live their lives in their golden years. I do hope that she makes a good recovery and can continue to live many more years to come.

Good luck today. I hope that you get good news at the surgeon's office.

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Just want you to know I am thinking of you today. Sending positive thoughts your way.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
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2T, good luck today. Let us know how it goes.


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Thank you to everyone for you support and encouraging wishes.

The news is good. It's not skin cancer. It's sebaceous hyperplasia for all you medical types out there. I'm very relieved and very glad I didn't let the HMO folks make a mess of my nose. I'm told dermabasion will take care of it as well as some previous damage. I'll give that some thought.

The swelling and tenderness I was concerned about wasn't associated with the biopsy, so I stopped at one of those pharmacy clinics on the way home. Turns out I have a sinus infection (which totally explains the watery eyes I've had the for the last week), so I'm on antibiotics now and all that should be cleared up in a week.

I'm a happy camper!

Thanks again for all the good wishes. All of you are such great support to me, in MLC-land and otherwise. I can't express how much that means to me.

xoxoxoxo


Me: 59 and holding
H: :53
Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown
M: 19
T: 23
BD: 9-23-2013
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Woo hoo! I am toasting to your good results. What a relief. Phfeww.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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Great news xoxoxoxoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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This is great news and I'm very happy that everything is okay.

BTW, it's time to start a new thread.

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Brilliant news 2T!


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





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Excellent! Great relief to hear that.


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

Kindness, kindness, kindness.
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Link to new thread:

Uncharted Waters


Me: 59 and holding
H: :53
Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown
M: 19
T: 23
BD: 9-23-2013
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

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