I like the "you won't ever be able to let this go will you" line. I think I'd probably reply one time with a laughing "I guess we'll never know, I never had the chance to try because you never stopped". Then I would never even entertain that statement with a reply again. It's like watching an interview of Charles Mansen on death row, he can talk for hours about religion and spirituality and the problems in society, and if you try hard you can almost overlook the fact that he killed a bunch of people. Craziness. And just like in his case imprisonment and death was the only option, when you have an individual that will commit serial adultery and then get nasty with you for not handling it the way she thinks you ought to...well, nothing to do but cut bait.
And no need to bring it up any more either. I hate to be negative but I seriously doubt this is going to change. It's been too much of her life for too long. Not to say it's impossible, but you certainly don't want to bet your well being on it. It's far more likely this is how she'll continue for the next 10 years as well.
Point is if she ever asks "is this what you want" or "is it too late", don't take the bait. She isn't seriously interested in R. If she ever temp checks you I'd just say "I'm not having this conversation." That's it. No more explanations. No more "I won't be in an open marriage". No more "I'd need a transparency plan". Nothing. Just don't have the conversation. Unless the conversation starts with her begging forgiveness and swearing to make it right, it's not worth having, and it's certainly not worth having if you have to tell her what words to say to string you along.
Sorry, I'm worked up just reading it. I'm not too pleased with your STBXW.
But the hard news is that it will still destroy your life. D is so brutal. Perpetrator or victim, divorce is the most destructive thing I've ever imagined. As bad as betrayal is, not having your partner to be hurt by is even worse. AT FIRST. But I swear to you it gets easier.
For those who wonder how it feels 2 years down the road, all I can say is that I never wanted D, it is the worst thing that has ever happened to me. It is painful beyond description. BUT. I can handle it. It doesn't define my life. It's one of those things I don't like, but can deal with. You can get there coffee, and whether you ever partner up again or not, there is no comfort to be found in the status quo.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
I am sorry you are going through all this. I just read the last two pages of your thread. Don't know how you lasted this long.
Zues has given some good advice. I am praying for you to be strong.
H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6 S-9,8,8,6,4 S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15 EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16 PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16 XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16 Finally moving forward...
Dang it! good day of DBing, Zuess I know your thoughts on this, but I am less DBing and more moving on and being happy with my day. I saw a dr and he gave me some AD medicine. It is really starting to work I think. That coupled with a bike ride and some sun, hanging out with my son and helping him with a school project. But here is the kicker Tonight from the back room W asks if I was bike riding tomorrow, I said not sure yet, then mumble mumble... so I asked later because I didn't want to yell across the house. She was asking me to lunch, I immediatly say yeah we can do that. Well shoot I missed the mark, I can recognize this as a temperature check next time. I will be really busy tomorrow for sure.
M 21 years XW 43yo, me 41 yo S13 BD March 2016 - she asked me to patient... End of June - I started the D process. D final 2/23/17 "He who forgets will be destined to remember" Eddie Vedder
First of all it is a process, you're not where you will be in 90 days or 365 days, but you get there by striving little by little.
Second, it doesn't really matter if you 'backslide' in front of her, because when you truly don't care what she thinks about you then you stop caring if she sees you're still conflicted. This isn't a game anymore. It's a man that's filing a divorce he didn't want, but has to pursue. Of course you're going to show the same regret as a man taking his sick dog to the vet. Who cares?
Third, there is no reason you couldn't play it off if you wanted. Like "I thought we had a lot of logistical things to discuss", and "While I'm not interested in a close friendship, I do want to proceed with mutual goodwill and be effective coparents", that kind of thing. No reason you have to act like you are trying to date her.
Just my initial thoughts. Don't sweat it. You'll get where you're going.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Went to lunch today, acting like nothing happened...same crap different day. Said she would be home in a bit tonight, then no text saying otherwise, blah blah blah. How does it go, not my circus not my monkeys.
M 21 years XW 43yo, me 41 yo S13 BD March 2016 - she asked me to patient... End of June - I started the D process. D final 2/23/17 "He who forgets will be destined to remember" Eddie Vedder
Went to lunch today, acting like nothing happened...same crap different day. Said she would be home in a bit tonight, then no text saying otherwise, blah blah blah. How does it go, not my circus not my monkeys.
I would venture to say she doesn't stay up nights worrying that she may actually lose you. I'm not saying this to punch you in the gut, Coffee. She is a serial cheater. Not much else really needs to be added.
I really appreciate Zues talking straight with you, b/c men can relate to each other and use less words doing it. Do you know the person who really has the WW's playbook (beside another WW)? The man who learned well from her bad treatment.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi, I agree with you whole completely. Nothing more I can say about that. I am working on me now, doing my best to disconnect and stop engaging in the little scraps she is throwing at me. Working on my relationship with my son. And detaching from what I thought I have known to be my life for so long. Even now I wonder where she is. She is out of town again on buisness, she said she would call in a bit but I haven't heard from her. Trying my best to remember she could care less about me and what I have going on. Hard to fathom and I am still in true disbelief. I have come to the realization that she is crapping on my on purpose to get me to call for the D. Guess I just have to do it and move on. My fear is that she wants me to do that so I look like the bad guy, and I am trying to figure out if I can protect myself from that the best I can. Not sure it will really matter in years to come, that part will fizzle in time. I need to be happy in life and this isn't doing it for me. Thanks again Sandi you have true words of wisdom.
M 21 years XW 43yo, me 41 yo S13 BD March 2016 - she asked me to patient... End of June - I started the D process. D final 2/23/17 "He who forgets will be destined to remember" Eddie Vedder
My fear is that she wants me to do that so I look like the bad guy, and I am trying to figure out if I can protect myself from that the best I can.
Why do you fear being seen as the bad guy? I am not trying minimize your concerns by asking this question. I do believe it part of the makeup in a nice-guy H. Maybe you should examine that question a little deeper, b/c I bet you have been this way (not wanting to be seen as the bad guy in any situation) for a very long.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I have always been a pretty strong person in other parts of my life. So strong, that in my R I was always very cautious of taking charge or being assertive because I didn't want to bulldoze XW. Similar to how a large man might be careful not to hurt someone half his size.
But it went beyond caution, to neurosis. I began to measure my worth and even define my identity by how XW viewed me. And because of this she was able to manipulate and control me. The problem wasn't only that she was able to push me around and that I enabled some negative choices, it's also that she lost respect for me and didn't see me as the man I truly am.
In a way I kept expecting her to recognize how stupendous I was at a man, while simultaneously being appreciative of how sensitive I was considering my prowess. Yet instead she just took my extreme sensitivity as weakness and developed contempt for me. The irony is that in the end she felt that my inability to protect her or take a leadership role in the family was 'abusive'. So in the end I received a failing grade from her anyway, no matter how hard I tried.
These days I've made peace with who I am. I no longer care how XW views me. I get that I'm the villain in her personal narrative. I mean, how else can she spin things to justify the destructive decisions she made? I realize that her spew and nastiness and disdain towards me is based on the story she tells herself, and doesn't reflect reality or my self image.
One thing I'd recommend that DOES help get to this point, is PROFESSIONAL THIRD PARTY SUPPORT. I had an IC, a DB Coach, and a L. Essentially a team of professionals that had seen this all hundreds of times. Before I did anything major I consulted this powerhouse team.
This helped because if all three of them told me I had to do A/B/C (separate finances, get my own place, draw a boundary around a certain issue, etc), I knew it was endorsed by my team. If XW spewed and twisted that into proof I was an abusive piece of garbage, I was able to let it bounce off me much easier because I didn't make the decision alone. In fact, it was laughable because I basically followed the lead of this team for the last 2 years, so if XW spewed at me, she was basically saying that my counselors and lawyers were being abusive which is clearly laughable. In the end I will never have regrets about the way I handled things or doubt that I was more than reasonable. And this helped me detach from her and reassert control over my self identity.
Who is on your team?
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Right now my team is an IC, an MD and my close knit friend group. However I have distanced my problems from my friends. They don't need my problems in their life. So next will be a L. I like that advice Zuess, just need to build my team and get cracking.
M 21 years XW 43yo, me 41 yo S13 BD March 2016 - she asked me to patient... End of June - I started the D process. D final 2/23/17 "He who forgets will be destined to remember" Eddie Vedder
Do you know the person who really has the WW's playbook (beside another WW)? The man who learned well from her bad treatment.