(Terry Jones): I think she's dead.

[LoisB]

Episode Two of 'The Death of Mary, Queen of Scots,' can be heard on Radio Four almost immediately.

(Music, then the sound of saw cutting, and other violent sounds as before, with the woman screaming. Suddenly it is silent).

Man's Voice (Terry Jones): I think she's dead.

Woman's Voice: No I'm not!

Hey Guys :-)

It's been a bit. Had a situation today which I thought may enlighten folks in MLC-CrazyLand.

I needed to take a time out and collect myself. The last time I checked in, I was very raw and felt like every nerve ending was exposed. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. Honestly, I was very new to some big changes and felt a bit exposed and overly sensitive.

Anyway, things are going well and slowly falling into place. Job is going really well. They seem to really love me. I've been offered more hours. Still very active in my strict Debtor's Anonymous program and my financial life has calmed down by leaps and bounds. Still have a ways to go, but the program is working and I'm sticking to it.

So, for today... About a month or so ago, my oldest daughter, now 21, confided that she is smoking marijuana daily... yes, like her dad. I can't say I'm surprised and that was always what I suspected when she left NY. I knew that, if she had a problem with substances, heading back to the college campus would bring it to light.

Still painful, though, and brought up a lot of memories with Matt. Haven't heard from him in about a month. He has cut off contact with Louisa, now 13, completely. He hasn't seen her in almost two years, come May.

Well, with D21's confession of chronic marijuana use, I stepped way back. I'm very guarded with her and protective of what small, settled life Louisa and I have built. And, she has begun to spin a bit. She is feeling very alone and my mom and stepdad took the vehicle they helped her lease... once they found out, from me, that she is using again.

She hadn't paid on the car since they drove it from the lot. They had made the payments.

Cal is feeling very alone. So, she reached out to her grandmother. Matt's mom. I thought the reaction was really telling and illuminating, especially since I've had no contact with his family in more than two years.

The girls haven't seen their grandparents in 2.5 years. For Louisa, it may be more like 3.5. So, Cal sends a Facebook friendship request.

She hasn't seen her grandmother in two years and this was a family that used to worship my older daughter. They went on countless vacations, spent loads of time together... they were almost overly-involved in her life and I had to set some boundaries. At one point, my MIL said, "I wish we could just keep Cal and raise her."

So, Cal sends this request. An olive branch. They know nothing of her drug use. They just haven't seen their grand-daughter in a very long time and this is the response she received:

"Dear Callaway, With your friend request I feel there are questions that require answers. In the fall of 2013 you received 2 phone calls with messages and 2 texts from me (marked sent). I was inquiring about our shopping date over Thanksgiving break for a winter coat. Now, almost 2.5 years later I've received this request. Why? You took yourself out of our life. Why the change??????"

Cold much?

Maybe this is why Matt is who he is?

It really shook me up. After all this time, that's the response she gives a grandchild...

I'm still on guard with Cal, but I've repeated how much I love her probably more now than ever.

Just thought it was interesting in light of Matt's crisis, in light of many of the MLCs where Mom seems to be dominant, uncaring and lacking empathy.

[job]

I'm glad you returned to post an update. I'm glad things are going well with your job and you are continuing to attend the Debtor's Anonymous Program. I'm sure you are learning a lot about the triggers and also meeting some really nice people.

I'm very sorry to read about Cali. She's certainly changed a bit and even after knowing what her father has done to the family to pick up the "Weed" habit isn't good. I know you are very much aware of the "addictive" personality and how some of that can be inherited. I think you are very wise to step back and not trust her.

No matter the relationship between your mom and you, she did the right thing in taking the leased car back. I honestly don't blame them for doing so. Isn't Cali still working when she's not going to college? I guess she now figures that she can't go to your mother for help when it comes to finances. I'm surprised she's not reached out to your father.

I'm not surprised that she's reached out to Matt's mother. Why? Because she knows that she was the favorite granddaughter and figures she can get not only emotional support from her, but possible financial help too at some point.

Actually, I think Matt's mother is spot on in asking her questions about not hearing from her for a few years and why now? What's changed? I don't think that Matt's mother was lacking empathy or being cold when she asked Cali the questions that she did. It's been a long time since she and Cali have had any contact and yes, there were several phone and text messages sent to Cali and she chose not to respond to them. So, in her grandmother's eyes, Cali made the decision to cut all ties. Cali is going to have to honest w/her and tell her why she's chosen to reach out at this point in her life. She can't just waltz back into these people's lives and say "here I am". I do think Cali owes them an explanation and even an apology for not returning the calls and/or test messages...but this is their relationship to work out and hopefully the fences can be mended...but time will tell.

I do hope that my opinion of what the grandmother stated doesn't upset you...but I would have eventually asked the same questions after I had been "dissed" for a few years. It's human nature to wonder "why now"?

Continue to tell Cali that you love her and hopefully she'll get her act together. She is a very intelligent young lady and I would hate to see her throw her life away on drugs and alcohol. I know you know the drill...don't enable her and do not bail her out financially...you've got to take care of yourself and Louisa.

Please take care of yourself.

[LoisB]

Thanks Job. It was nice to read your post :-)

I agree about the car.

I'm not sure what I think. I have a long history with this woman and... it's the rest of the story and my instincts which are screaming out. I have a hard time with my MIL accepting no responsibility with the collapse of that relationship... knowing that she blames Louisa too for not continuing contact... even though I invited my inlaws to our home, repeatedly, to spend time with both girls and they ignored me. They also say Louisa cut ties, even though she was only nine when all of this went down and she has gone years without seeing her father, which makes it much harder to maintain a relationship with HIS parents. Still, no one in his family holds him responsible. Cal remains an easy target. They have been crying that she is ungrateful since this began and they cry the same river for Louisa...

Cal was a troubled teen. I posted much of the drama on here. My inlaws were helpful at first... but, when she began to turn things around, they weren't anywhere close to helping me with getting her into college or helping with the expenses. They've pretended that we didn't exist, because they could turn the other way. If you remember, one of the reasons I left Ohio was because they were spreading rumors in our town that I had cut them and Matt off from his kids.

I begged them at one point to help me with the divorce because I wasn't getting regular child support and they closed themselves off to our reality.

I feel conflicted on this one. I have such a long history of this woman being cold and harsh with me and my girls. She was always in charge of everything--our marriage/our parenting--and cut people out with no regard for anyone's feelings, but her own. I know Cal is a basket case right now... but, I think her grandmother's response is par for the course. There's such a long history with my MIL.

Apparently, now, the pressure is on for Cal to respond. I figured Cal was in contact with Matt... it all makes sense. She feels alone, she is using, she knows my mom won't help, I won't help and my dad is questionable... So, Matt is the obvious next person in her alcoholic mind to reach out to... the father who uses marijuana daily and hasn't been there for her in years. What's hard is all of the pieces of MY life that I'm sure Cal has shared with Matt. I know that when my daughter feels desperate she throws everyone under the bus, including me.

The next part shows me that nothing has really changed. Grandma is still calling the shots in his life.

I received a text this morning from Cal...

"Dad called me and told me I have to respond to Grandma ASAP."

Its' sorta our marriage in a nutshell. Grandma... the center of the universe is now on alert and requires action. Matt will take the stand to defend his mother because that's what he does. He does what he is told... when his mother dictates.

This will be interesting. I'm not responding to Cal's text. She invited this crazee back into her life. SHE needs to handle it. If she presses. That's my take.

Still, it's like them coming back into my life... even though it's indirect and I feel the panic of... "What will they do? How will I get hurt this time?"

[LoisB]

Meant to say... "Not sure what I think about MIL..."

But, I agree about the car. In fact, my mom has waffled a bit on the car, considering giving it back... I'm not supporting that. I know her grades are still okay and she is working two jobs... But, bottom line... Cal is using.

[LoisB]

What happened to edit?

[job]

Heather,
I don't blame you for not responding to Cali's text about her father stating that granny is waiting for a response. Cali opened the door on this one and now she's got to figure things out. After all, she is now 21 and considered an adult and she needs to learn to make adult decisions and not rely on everyone else bailing her out each time she goes down into the rabbit hole. I know it hurts to see your daughter in this situation, but sometimes tough love is the only way to go. You love her, you tell her you love her, but she's got to get herself out of the mess she's now created on her own.

Heather, you have worked too hard to allow Matt, Cali and his family to draw you back into their drama. Step way back and love her from afar. And, yes, I do remember how Cali tends to throw people under the bus when she is desperate...don't go down into the rabbit hole w/her. She has to hit bottom before she'll surface again.

Continue w/your life and be there for Louisa. I know you'll stay in touch w/Cali, but be careful in what you post to her. I would hate to see her throw you under the bus again.

I'm very sorry that her situation hasn't improved. I had such high hopes that she would get her life together. I still pray that she will...but again, no one can help her until she helps herself and that may be hitting bottom very hard and realizing that she have lost a lot along the way.

[LoisB]

I know. It's so painful. He's been chronically using for decades and hasn't hit bottom... even with the additional alcohol abuse and losing his family. Literally. How long will it take her to get honest?

It's like watching Matt all over again. Only, this time, Cal is trying to ally herself with him in order to justify her own lifestyle. And, she is behaving in her addiction, like he did. But, she didn't start as early as he did, age 12, and I've made sure she had some severe consequences when she used... jail, car taken, no mama coming to the rescue, kicking her out in NY when she refused A.A. and/or counseling. She has some A.A. under her belt and the seed was planted.

I'm also not nearly as codependent with her as with her dad, so it's healthier in terms of my stepping back and allowing her to feel the hard stuff without my cushioning the pain.

I guess, if I'm going to look at the good side of things... Cal is a reminder to me of how Matt's addiction played a role in all of this insanity. Her behavior is so similar and feels like a flashback into conversations and frustrations I had for decades with his drug and alcohol use... And, how fruitless it was trying to convince someone to stop something they were so invested in continuing.

Also, I've been reminded of how miserable and demanding and crazee his family is. And, how much I wanted out of that insanity.

I said to Cal the other day... When she sent me, yet another lecture on the benefits of regular marijuana use... I told her that she can do what she pleases, but I have decades of experience that won't sway my opinion... I had to listen to the daily bronchial coughing of her dad. I held his hand the countless times he tried to stop smoking and dealt with his anger and mood swings whenever he tried to give it up... I talked to him about his marijuana use last summer when he realized he could quit and possibly save his family before heading to the final divorce hearing... And, yet, he still couldn't quit. In my eyes, that spells addiction.

She responded. "I understand more than you will ever know."

How sad. But, still she following the same path.

So stubborn. So much like her dad. And, again, using to try to re-establish a connection to someone who treated her so badly. Kills me.

[job]

Heather,

I'm going to ask you a couple of questions and I'd like you to think about it for a while before responding. Okay? Do you think Cali is trying to understand what he father did w/his life? Do you think that what she's doing right now is her way of trying to get her father's attention?

I feel for you. You've already been down this road w/Matt and now Cali is traveling that road. I pray that she'll stop w/the "justifications" for why she's using and get some help. It's disheartening to watch a young lady, who is highly intelligent, ruin her life like this.

I'm keeping you and your family in my thoughts and prayers. You've had so much on your plate for so long and I had high hopes that things would finally settle down when you moved "south".

Please take care of yourself.

[123Gwen]

Heather - so good to hear from you even though I wish your post was only full of rainbows and unicorns. In other words, I am sorry you are having to work through these emotions and issues with your oldest daughter. As a casual observer I think Cali is working through her own emotions at an age that is hard for most people. Be consistent with those boundaries but if she is talking with you and working two jobs and keeping up her grades then perhaps she is struggling but not in full blown crisis. As for the grandma I agree with Job. Cali was not necessarily wrong to step away from her grandparents at the time but she has to be able to explain her honest motivations for reconnection now. I mean isn't that the same standard you would have for her father?

Being able to voice your needs, state your boundaries and own your choices while accepting the consequences and understanding you can't control other people and/or situations. That is the standard for maturity and a great foundation to build trust. Honesty, authenticity and communication.

Hang in there. How do you like living in your new city (actually not so new anymore)? So happy you are feeling good about work. So glad you posted.

[LoisB]

Past Thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2636815&page=1

Yes. Job, I do believe and have believed for some time that Cal has some deep issues to work through with her dad. Her own leanings toward addiction have mixed all that baggage up. She misses me, misses us... but refuses to let go of her current lifestyle and that's okay. Apparently, she has a new tattoo.

Scares the hell outta me how long she will be experimenting with this lifestyle and scares me about how Matt will play a part in it... Matt has struggled with this lifestyle for decades... Will she spend time with Skank OW? Will they all use together? So far, I've managed to keep my girls away from that insanity and now, Cal, is inviting it into her life.

She didn't respond to her grandmother, but received a Happy Easter. She responded with a Happy Easter.

I think it's best I keep my nose outta this stuff with Cal. My life is settling down. Easter was wonderful. Life is becoming normal and the MLC crazee is slowly drifting into background.

He sent Louisa a nice Easter card. I sent a short text telling him she appreciated the card and she is saving it. I received no response. Now, that I know he has been talking to Cal daily, it makes sense I would get no response. Matt tends to fixate on one of us and that's it.

Louisa has shut down the iPad texting app where she communicated with him. It was their only mode of communication. After the Christmas outreach to all three of us, when he promised again how much he missed all of us and wanted to make changes, but was stuck... She sort shut him out. It's almost 2 years since he saw Louisa.

Okay. I've been thinking about my oldest and her current issues with substance abuse and her dad. Last night, she revealed he is calling her daily. I've stepped away from her life to some extent since she told me of the regular marijuana use. I will text her an "I love you" and things like that, but I'm not playing the part of mom who helps her figure out a plan of action for different problems or whatever. I'm done setting myself up and playing the role of cheerleader, secretary, coach, etc... I've been there and done that and I've been burned.

I sorta figured she reached out to her dad... she has seemed really desperate lately, but it was a mixed bag of emotion to hear that this man who went AWOL on our lives is now a daily presence in her life... when she is vulnerable. Still, this is her bag to sort through. I didn't ask any questions about what they discuss or any details. I know she has to work through this.

My PTSD radar went off with a submarine dive alarm. And, I've been sorting through the feelings ever since.

Feeling One... I'm scared of his hurting us again. When oldest D is desperate for someone to fix things... she will throw anyone under the bus, including me. She has... that means Matt may now know about my being fired and our living situation in Asheville--housesharing, etc... in other words, he may know the sordid details of my life which I hate.

I know this man is a loaded barrel of midlife crisis, depression and addiction. When I have time away from him I feel such anxiety when he comes back into our lives. Sending the text about the Easter card filled me with fear. I know this is a normal reaction. I did feel the card warranted some validation for reaching out nicely to Louisa. He mentioned me in the card and wished all of us a Happy Easter.

Feeling Two

Talking to Cal was weird. We were laughing and talking and she sounds like the daughter I love and adore. However, she, then, tells me about her conversations with her dad and I know she is using and my trust level just drops to the bottom of the bucket. I sense my walls thicken and I shut down... I don't trust her a bit and that hurts. I've always suspected she had some need that was driving her to work through issues with her dad via the drugs.

The bottom line fear... He will take someone else I love away. I will be hurt again. I will be betrayed again... only this time by my daughter and Matt.

I know some of those fears are my past experiences talking, but, none-the-less, those are the fears. He will hurt me again and, this time, Cal will be are part of it.

All I can do is to continue to protect Louisa and I. Move forward with our lives and get settled more and more.

We had a wonderful Easter. The best we've had in many years. When Matt and addiction and his parents creep back into our lives... I find myself so blessed to be away from all that insanity.

I like living transparently without having to read into what people are thinking, doing, saying about me and wondering about the lies and secret drug use and the secrets... all the secrets and backstabbing and hurt.