Feeling lost

[TxHubby]

checking in again, had a week of GAL and holiday time with kids, lots of fun and helped take my mind off things.
Tried to maintain NC i.e. did not initiate and this worked well for me. Not sure if W has twigged yet that if she wants to talk/discuss it must now come from her.
At changeover was "as if" and kids were really showing what a great time they had during hols. She managed to have a dig, saying "you never wanted to do that before" - I couldn't think of what to say to validate this, and couldn't ignore it since it was directly stated, but also didn't want an argument about it. I simply said I couldn't remember that.
Goals for this week are to sort out my goals!
Needing to start taking the DB book seriously and starting to put it into practice. In many ways I feel I've been treading water up to now and slowly sinking, this is despite friends and family saying I am doing all I can do.

When they give you the "you never wanted to do that before" you respond with "I know. I should have. You have helped me realize a lot of changes I needed to make and now I'm making them and loving it. Thank you so much for that." Then just let it rest. She can inquire about joining the great new you and working on the M or she won't. Either way you're going to be fine.

[1gr8dad]

Hi SRT,

Please recognize that you're in a very difficult position. A lot of the advice will be like people telling you not to eat when you feel very hungry -- it just feels wrong to follow it and takes a LOT of discipline.

If you could DB perfectly here's what it would look like:

You would just "do your own thing", pursue your own happiness, and be the best "you" you can be.

If your W offered to do things as a family you would go if you wanted to, and not go if you didn't, and you would make that decision based on how you were feeling and what you thought was best for the kids. The impact it might have or not have on her wouldn't even be on the radar.

When you are together with your W, what she says or does wouldn't impact you at all, you wouldn't be looking to her for anything, and she wouldn't feel like she has any impact on your state of mind. If she's funny you laugh, if she's mean you shrug.

Why would that be your best bet?

Because virtually anything else you will do will push her away. Any "strategy", any attempts to win her back, persuading, pursuing, demonstrating, explaining, none of it will work.

Most people learn that lesson painfully and slowly.

The problem with learning that lesson the hard way is that all these things you feel like you should try actually push her farther away and do more damage.

She wants space right now? Respect her wishes and give it to her -- it's the best thing you can do.

I've had a couple friends from this board for several years, and know their exes. One guy continues to try to "get his wife back", writes her cards, sends her letters, is *convinced* that if she just understood how much he loves her and how different things would be, she would come back. She avoids him because his constant pursuit and attention is stifling and she doesn't feel like he's hearing that she wants space, so she keeps running. Her perception of him is not able to change because she just keeps focusing on getting away.

In the other case, after the guy discovered his wife's affair, he just went the other direction. He was polite, but dropped contact completely unless it was about necessary logistics or about the kids. He went out and pursued his interests and she felt more or less cut off.

In that situation, she was initially still angry at him for whatever had happened over the course of their marriage, but the space he gave her gave her the opportunity to process that anger and move beyond it. After the anger was processed, which took several months, she started to remember the good times and what brought them together to begin with, and then began to feel like she *might* have made a mistake in straying instead of trying to work through things.

There is *no way* she would have gotten to that mental state if he had continued to pursue her. Instead she would have stayed angry and stayed focused on escaping.

What you need to do right now is give her the space she wants and take care of yourself. Do not measure the impact of your every decision based on what she will do in response. Live your life, find yourself, learn how to smile and have fun again. It is literally all you can do.

Acc

Amazing Post Accuray, I have to say this really spoke to me, thank-you.

[srt]

Hi txhubby, thanks for that, this validating is really making me think on my feet. In some ways that's good as because I'm pausing to think about things I'm not spewing like she is and I'm also not saying things that are going to do more damage.
Big milestone later today for me with work, hoping things go well, wish me luck!

[Accuray]

Hey srt,

If you have a difficult topic you want to discuss or something you think that's going to trigger her, the best way to approach it is not to spring it on her. In that context you've been thinking about it and she has not, so she will likely react poorly. Try sending her a message in advance or mentioning something in advance. "I'd like to see us split time with the kids more evenly, I'd like to discuss that with you on Thursday after we exchange the kids. Please give it some thought between now and then."

That way she has time to mentally prepare and you're less likely to get tantrums.

The other thing that's a good idea is to have some documented agreements. When you get divorced in the US there are two components to the divorce settlement, a custody agreement and a financial settlement.

In some cases, people will agree on these provisionally even for trial separations. i.e. you might write up a set of agreements about your custody schedule and your finances "for now" so that you both know what the rules will be.

Trying to make the rules "as you go" by confronting things as they arise tends to be more stressful.

It may feel like pushing your W away by bringing up the topic of a separation agreement, but realistically you're just supporting what she wants, which is good validation.

Acc

[mutatio]

Treat her with compassion and take Accuray's advice it is wise. TxHubby's suggestion was great. You have great friends.

srt, it is a long struggle be patient, be well

[srt]

Another check in today, big milestone in getting back to work this week, hoping this really help with my mental health - been feeling v down, lonely and desperate recently. Trying like crazy to be upbeat and not show it but I know I wear my feelings on my sleeve.

Did some good GAL too, reconnected with a biking group and gonna maintain that for the physical workout and mental release.

No real change in my sitch, maintaining NC as far as I can, and trying to look my best and be upbeat.

Wondering on advice about 2 things.

I've previously asked if during my time with kids I should invite wife, she seemed a little pissed this did not happen during spring break, and the NC from me during that time. I told her I'm simply a call away and she just has to let me know. HOWEVER in DR it says I need to "try" stuff. Wondering if this is the time (7 months separated) to "invite" her to do some more family things with me and kids in my time? In 2 minds about this as I've been NC for nearly 2 months now and want her to see the loss she will have, but equally I'm also aware I might need to make the first small move? She hasn't invited me to stuff recently either. I don't want to pursue !??!? Confused! W has said she misses doing things the 4 of us.

Secondly D has birthday soon, W has not mentioned any plans yet re party or gifts etc. I've went ahead and sorted out some presents for D from my end. I'm wondering again if this is the time to gift presents just from me, instead of from both of us ??? Again aware of potential to backfire, just don't want to be a doormat or allow cake-eating (cherry pick all the best bits of family life with no committment to anything else.

[Accuray]

Others may disagree but I think it's best for your daughter if gifts come from both of you versus separate gifts from mom and dad.

Regarding inviting her to do stuff with you and the kids, it really depends what you can handle. Doing things as a family is good for the kids *provided* you two are interacting in a healthy way during the time you're together and the kids aren't picking up on stress and angst.

Therefore, the question to you is "can you handle that with NO expectations that it will lead to anything you want?"

This is where a lot of people kid themselves. They really really want to do things with their ex, and they want it to be okay from a DB perspective, so they do it and then have high expectations for the positive impact it's going to have.

Then, it either doesn't make the situation better, or it backfires because the WAS makes some nasty comments, and its a devastating setback and then triggers all kinds of pursuit behavior and/or other panic, followed by withdrawal and brooding.

Right now you want things from your ex that she doesn't want to give you. That's a toxic situation for you given how badly you want them. Can you handle that toxic situation? Can you walk into it knowing it's not going to change anything the next day and still be okay with that?

Will you be able to wake up the next day feeling no worse than you do no?

If so then invite away! If not, then give yourself more time to heal and process. This is a marathon, not a sprint, and there is no magic number of months that's going to change anything. It's all about how you're doing and what you can handle.

Acc

[srt]

Hi, Accuray, as always thanks for the advice, really insightful to learn more about WHY to follow Sandi's rules.

As it happen W has suggested we all meet up this weekend (I will have kids). I was unsure if she is being selfish by asking, but then unsure if I am being spiteful by declining.

I suppose I should give it further thought, and I told her I'd think about it.

I should say though that I didn't exactly go out of my way to organise things before BD day. Maybe this could be one of my 180s - read someone else on a different thread asking this? As always open to thoughts on this.

In other news work is going well, maintaining NC as best as I can and having a blast with the kids. Feeling better than I have for months.

[Accuray]

DB is all about nuance -- you say you "didn't go out of your way to organize things before BD day"

Was that one of your W's specific complaints?

Your 180's are best done in the format where you can do them regardless of what she's doing. i.e. organize things for the kids regardless of whether or not W participates.

180's are about life changes that YOU want to make to make you a better person, they are not about "putting on a show" temporarily for your WAW, because they always see through that, disbelieve it, and dismiss it as not real.

Don't use a 180 as an excuse to do something you're not really ready for.

[srt]

Hi thanks Accuray, yes I think it was one of the things she complained about, but also she didn't want to come before BD day so that just weighed me down.

I have been doing some great GAL with me and the kids, so I suppose I've done a 180 (duh and I hadn't even realised!!!) and yes couldn't care less about what she thinks, we're still doing it! Hope she realises she is missing out.

This time it is a little different as W has suggested the activity and place in "my" time with the kids. 'd probably be taking them anyway. Just wondering if I should be open to her coming or not. It's not "a show" for me, she now knows I am a great Dad. Could this be her reaching out in a "safe" way - I have been trying to go NC for the last 2 months.
Thinking about the need for her to feel "loss" too as per Sandi's threads...

confused - can see arguments both ways on this one