I've been checking out these boards for quite awhile as I've been posting on Newcomers, but I guess its time to move on over here.
To some up, my H dropped the B 2 weeks after my D25 got married this summer, moved out in October, and filed for D at the end of January. He has given as his reasons that we are too different, that I don't like him and haven't for years (the length of that time keeps growing), that I am embarassed of him, and that, although he isn't happy now that he's moved out (or even happier)he sees it as his best chance to be happy.
He talks of getting old, being exhausted, working til his last breath, etc. His mother has Alzheimers but is being cared for by his father 2 states away. He is under a lot of stress about this. He seems very depressed.
I care for him deeply...still love and am attracted to him. He still shows me he cares for me. As I've learned to listen better, he has opened up more about his fears and stresses. He has, over the years, become closer to a friend and employee (married female)as he's moved further away emotionally from me, but I no longer believe it was a PA. They are still close.
I believe he is deep in MLC and has been for some time.
I have been trying to DB since September, but have trouble detaching. I've learned that R talks scare him away, but cause him to think. I try not to have them, but sometimes my emotions get the best of me. He has reached out to me randomly several times so I've "been the lighthouse" or the "woman only a fool would leave" and he seems very responsive to this. But then I get my hopes up and have them smashed again when he pulls back. I'm trying to detach and am getting better at it. Just thought it was time to move over here.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thank you, Job. I've been reading and re-reading these assignments for awhile. They have been very helpful.
I would love some more MLC book suggestions, as I've been more focused on listening skills,coping with separation and MWD's books on saving marriage.
I'm in the throes of D, but am choosing to stand, as well. A strange place to be, made more difficult by my H's wanting to be friends because we know each other so well and his still wanting to "take care" of me. But only when he wants to or with things he finds important.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
MLC and depression go hand in hand. In fact, depression is the main ingredient of MLC. Here's a list of reading materials that may assist you. I would highly recommend that you read up on depression. It's a bit different for males vs. females:
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Just a quick question for those who are dealing with an MLCer who is sometimes sharing about their life. How do you validate, "I'm exhausted" or ""getting old s#cks" type comments? I am hearing this every convo and I'm not sure what to say at this point.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
A very easy response is "I'm sorry you are feeling that way" or "I hope you are feeling better soon". It validates and also gets you off the hook for something they may take the wrong way.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thanks, Job. I was getting tired of trying to validate and reassure him. He's only going to be 52 in a bit. He acts like that's ancient!
He is working long days and trying to make more money (its suddenly become a major stressor for him) but fails to realize that its because he is so overextended. He wanted our vacation home even though we were already struggling to create a retirement for us and threw a fit when I said it wasn't very doable (I was in charge of finances, but he always battled for the past 10 years because he became a big spender. He made the money, so I always caved, but we used to make our decisions together before.). Now we have no savings and our retirement is small. Now that we are getting a D, he's suddenly worried about money.
No wonder he's tired and feels old.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
But then I get my hopes up and have them smashed again when he pulls back. I'm trying to detach and am getting better at it. Just thought it was time to move over here.
I had my hopes smashed this afternoon again. I was in the middle of PMA and went totally nonDB.
I continue to find such inspiration in your posts.
Buttercup
Me 50 H 51 M 17 T 20 D16 H EA Feb 2014 BD Sept 2015 H moved out Nov 2015 W Filed D papers Mar 2016
I'm so sorry your hopes were smashed. We'll just have to find a way to glue them back together again. I have gum and a few rubberbands? Those darn emotions do seem to bust up our DB efforts.
I got emotional two nights ago...got a disturbing email from my L reporting something his L had revealed that sent me off the rails. I received it on the way up to his office to exchange something with one of his staff and was so shaken (literally shaking, cold, and hardly able to stand) I was determined to not speak with him. So, of course he came to speak to me and...not my best DB moment. He called later after I got home (I was actually on a GAL activity) to talk about the issue, which turned out to be a stupid mistake his L made.
The next day he called me as I was getting ready for work, trying to be nice about giving me some info about a hobby we share and I shut him down with a "I'm not your concern anymore". What the *&% am I doing? Emotions really mess up our DB efforts.
So today, he was supposed to come work on the house (we will be selling it before the D) and he went skiing instead. I only found that out after wondering where he was and then hearing it from my daughter when she called. Misunderstanding or no?
I guess all I can say during these types of moments is...back to square one...try harder to detach emotionally so that we are not ou of control of ourselves ...make a plan...hope that next time will be another positive interaction due to a lesson learned and greater effort to be that wonderful, strong woman you've been working so hard to find inside you. I am the lighthouse in a sea of crazy...I am the woman only a fool would leave...I am strong, and patient, and very, very kind. And I love my H enough to do this.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Welcome, Cil, to the MLC board...land of the crazies. I love this:
"I guess all I can say during these types of moments is...back to square one...try harder to detach emotionally so that we are not ou of control of ourselves ...make a plan...hope that next time will be another positive interaction due to a lesson learned and greater effort to be that wonderful, strong woman you've been working so hard to find inside you. I am the lighthouse in a sea of crazy...I am the woman only a fool would leave...I am strong, and patient, and very, very kind. And I love my H enough to do this."
I read this several times and it inspires me.
Me: 51 H:50 M: 28 years T: 31 years 4 Ds: 24, 22, 19, 17 BD Jan 2013 D filed Feb 2015 Papers pulled Aug 2015 D re-filed Jan 2016
"What the *&% am I doing? Emotions really mess up our DB efforts."
Me too! I am making a fool of myself with all my emotions. I like your advice/wisdom in sticking to the DB path, even when we get sidetracked and act human. We LBS are needed to encourage each other when we stray off our way and hand each other lifelines to get out of the quagmire.
Thank you so much for sharing
Buttercup
Me 50 H 51 M 17 T 20 D16 H EA Feb 2014 BD Sept 2015 H moved out Nov 2015 W Filed D papers Mar 2016
H came over today. We had agreed to work on prepping the house and property for sale together, so we worked outside.
It was strange at first. It seems like he has to warm up to me every time we get together. So we worked in almost silence with each other, then started talking a little, then more, then he asked me about a few things I'd been up to, then eye contact...then we were back to our normal flow. So strange. He doesn't seem quite sure how to behave around me. I guess I need to be more consistent with my light and cheerful demeanor so that he can relax?
When we went in, he asked if I was ready to show him how to do taxes, so I got us some beers and snacks and we worked together on them. This prompted a discussion of his worries about money and business. He looked so sad. I listened and really validated. I said, "that must really depress you." Then he really opened up about his worries and stresses. I walked over to give him a side arm hug and rub his back, but he kept talking and was very stiff...not accepting the hug. But a bit later, I offered a big hug as a thank you for working on the yard with me and he accepted it and hugged back.
I'm realizing how much energy he puts into putting on his "mask", smiling and making everyone think he's ok. I know I can't fix him, but I wish I could. All I can do is show him I care, and be here (or wherever I end up) for him when he needs me. He may not feel anything for me right now and I still have to move forward for me, but my door is definitely cracked open. I hope he realizes that.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Looking back over yesterday's interaction with H, I realized how much my familiarity with him and my feelings for him really influence me.
I'm in the midst of being D by him and I'm listening to him talk about how he's so stressed about money, possibly not being able to pay taxes, being overworked...and I'm so sad and sorry for him. Then I realize, he has, in the past 8 years, decided to make some very big financial decisions without talking them over with me. We used to discuss all of our big decisions and go over the budgeting and details (I'm very detail oriented, he is "a big picture" guy). But as he pulled away from me and was more influenced by his EA/lady friend, those discussions stopped and his decisions became unilateral.
The purchase of our vacation home really set us back. He came to me with his mind made up, had already discussed it with friends (ladyfriend) who were ready to put money into it, and became angry when I said I wasn't sure it was a good idea. He had final say, though, so here we are. Much of his paycheck stretched to barely cover a home only used once in awhile, no savings due to us putting it down on the home, and an inability to put money away in savings or retirement. A few years back, he was forced to go out on his own to start his own business (unforseen at the time of the vacation home purchase), so a large cut in pay happened, as well. The vacation home was supposed to be an "investment". But when I pushed to have it put on the market, EA/ladyfriend had a fit and so it was taken off. Now he's worried about money because he's overworked and overtired and I'm feeling sorry for him.
He asked me to not spend any money for the next 6 weeks. I guess I need to be a little callous. I gave him an amount that I needed to pay our mortgage and bills that we decided was adequate. I haven't gone over it. I guess I need to just not worry so much about how he feels about a problem that he created. He fired me as a financial advisor. And now he wants me to feel bad for him. I do. But I'm not his problem...he is.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Do you have a lawyer? If so, you need to be speaking to him/her about what you need in the way of support money to keep the household up and running.
I thought it was absolutely priceless that he would have he nerve to tell you not to spend any money for the next 6 weeks. What's going to change between now and then? You can feel sorry for him, but do not allow this to sway you from what you need to survive. He's put himself in this big, deep financial hole and he can very well dig himself out on his own or w/the "lady friend". Just remember...he fired you from being his wife, lover and financial advisor quite some time ago. His life is no longer your problem...
Definitely seek the counsel of an attorney as soon as possible because it sounds like he's not going to be ensuring you have ample funds to live on if he continues down the road he's on or he's bsing you w/a poor me story. But, the truth needs to come out as to where all of the money is going and what is so special about the 6 week timeframe.
Protect yourself financially.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Oh, trust me. I have a lawyer. After H left yesterday, I finished up my financial declaration to prove that the amount we had agreed on was warranted. It will go in today. He wasn't being mean or even serious about the not spending money. He just is feeling stuck. My point is, I agree, he needs to make the connection between his plight and his actions on his own. I will still love him a d be here for him to talk with, but his financ ial woes and depression are not really due to me. Hopefully my L or the .mediator will help him see.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
I had followed your sitch over in Newcomers. I decided to jump over here myself just this past weekend, as I am now fully convinced of H's MLC and highly suspicious of mid-life EA/PA. I have no 'concrete proof, but I do have a case of missing condoms and missing Cialis. Kind of a smoking gun, don't you think?
I have no wise words as I am walking the path along with you. My H is all over the place too. I like to say his mood swings are giving me whiplash. Hang in there.
PS. I ditto Nel--I love that quote :>
Me 47 H 49 S18 S15 M 21 BD #1 11/09/15 ILYBNILY I believe we are Piecing 1/2/16 Suspect EA/PA? 2/28/16 BD #2 "He tried, but needs passion." 2/28/16 Confirm PA 3/11/16, he's leaving in June H leaves 5/7/16
Me 47 H 49 S18 S15 M 21 BD #1 11/09/15 ILYBNILY I believe we are Piecing 1/2/16 Suspect EA/PA? 2/28/16 BD #2 "He tried, but needs passion." 2/28/16 Confirm PA 3/11/16, he's leaving in June H leaves 5/7/16
Hey, Mel! Sometimes you've just got to move to where you feel you belong. Missing condoms and Cialis...hmmm. There's a funny joke in there somewhere...
Moving forums hasn't cured my own emotional whiplash. H called me tonight and immediately said "I don't know why I'm calling" and then continued on to have a nice convo. This is the second time he's said that after contacting me. Both times after seeing his L, though today he didn't mention that visit. I'm going to try not to read into this.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
I think they do a lot of touch and goes they are confused by the feeling they still feel for us while at the same time being hooked to ea/lady and some fantasy life They seem to opt for the most fun way and the new R does offer a bit more freedom and excitement
So I think they will often choose to loose everything to live out the fantasy and perhaps they lie to themselves all along the way and in the end when the D is done do they really realize what they are losing financially
MY XH lost everything in our D..house, business, kids I don't think either of us planned on him walking with absolutely nothing except 1/2 his clothes and his car..It just worked that way ..he could not handle the pressure and the losses, most all his choice though, so he left the state with OW..no contact for many years now- MY situation is probably more rare than some here, but still shows the mind of the MLCer
You sound clear and grounded and you seem like you have a plan Good luck on this journey
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Like everyone else here, emotions sometimes sneak up and crash over me, leaving me in a puddle of paralyzing fear, anger or despair. Other days I'm so convinced that I'm detached or hopeful that the changes I see in him are a positive sign that I'm walking on sunshine.
I'm not sure how much H's ladyfriend is an issue anymore. At one point I had chosen to apologize for my behavior to her (sorry for withdrawing at parties and get togethers and making everyone else feel shunned by me) because I felt the need to explain to her that it made me sick to see her having such a great relationship with my H as he was pulling away from me that I had to leave the room/area. I was ready to forgive her for a very specific set of marital boundary crossings, if only to allow myself to move on. But she never apologized. I have been unable to fully forgive her and move on and have realized...its hard to forgive an unapologetic person. She has backed off somewhat, but I've also realized it is in her nature to use her fun personality to use people to get things she otherwise wouldn't be able to get. Right now, she has a large vacation home for her family...mine. She has a boss who lets her run his office even though she's only there as a very part time hourly employee who comes and goes as she pleases. My H's office. But she has, from what I've seen and heard, backed off on the friendship. Well, this kinda turned into a rant. Yep! Haven't forgiven or forgotten. It'll take awhile to make sure that issue isn't taking up so much of my mindspace. I'll get there, though.
And H has pulled back from people outside of work. He really does pretty much work long hours (throw himself into work) and then go ski mostly alone on weekends (his only social life right now). Ski season is almost over, though.
The more I read about MLC, the more I realize he's probably been in one for at least 8 years. I've seen him go through so many stages. My D25 had "hottie Dad" her senior year of highscool, when he lost a ton of weight and started changing his hair, clothing style, taking supplements and hiring a personal trainer, and being the life of the party. That's also when he started treating me like an unwanted growth and hung out more with his friends (including his ladyfriend and her H). They drank and partied a lot on weekends and that hasn't been my scene since college. Before that was a horrible depression which he
Right now, while we're going through D, I'm still DBing somewhat. Not initiating contact, which he's starting to initiate more. Not asking him many questions, but being there to listen and validate when needed. I'm allowing him to see me boxing things up and he has been helping me clean up the property, so he knows I'm preparing to leave this house. I have accepted that the D will go through and tha house will be sold and that I will have to continue to DB from a whole new life. I'm trying to put things together for that next step. I really wonder what's going on within his MLC mind at this point in the game, and how being D will affect everything, which tells me how not detached I am.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Before that was a horrible depression which he was able to only show through his "happy mask" when alone with me after drinking or when tired. It was awful to see, but whenever I tried to talk to him about it, he would cut me off with"I'm fine". God, how I hate that phrase. Its always a lie.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
C, once again I am struck by the similarities in our situations.
I too am finding it very difficult to forgive the unapologetic. My emotions are also all over the place.
And your statement about being non-detached!! H is on my mind constantly. I am DBing majorly and it is keeping him guessing. I'm now the wife who has filed to save herself, that only the fool has left. Being fired as his wife, I have to separate the emotions from the practical and logical. Yes, I wish it could be different.
Sad that he shows no remorse over the disaster he's created.
Buttercup
Me 50 H 51 M 17 T 20 D16 H EA Feb 2014 BD Sept 2015 H moved out Nov 2015 W Filed D papers Mar 2016
Like everyone else here, emotions sometimes sneak up and crash over me, leaving me in a puddle of paralyzing fear, anger or despair. Other days I'm so convinced that I'm detached or hopeful that the changes I see in him are a positive sign that I'm walking on sunshine.
This is exactly how I'm feeling. It's such an exhausting rollercoaster of emotions!
I do feel it's a good sign for you that he is initiating contact more. He is so obviously confused and all over the place. When with him, just keep being the woman only a fool would leave. You are really doing a great job, Cil. I'm sure that you feel the same way as me that with the D already in progress-- that the time clock is ticking-- but, there is nothing we can do about it, so I just remind myself to take it one day at a time and don't look too far ahead in the future. You never know what is going to happen, especially when you least expect it.
Nel
Me: 51 H:50 M: 28 years T: 31 years 4 Ds: 24, 22, 19, 17 BD Jan 2013 D filed Feb 2015 Papers pulled Aug 2015 D re-filed Jan 2016
My birthday was yesterday (pisces...confused and swimming two different directions at once.)
Got a bday text from H, "Rise, shine and have a Happy Birthday!". I texted back "thank you, you have a nice day yourself". Got a text 5 minutes later from his ladyfriend wishing me a happy birthday. Still not quite sure what to think of those two. Guess I just shouldn't.
I decided last month to throw myself a bday party. I've never had one since I've been married (went out to dinner as a family), so I decided new me wanted to feel loved by friends and daughters. D25 heard this and decided she would be in charge. She just wanted names of invitees; the rest would be a surprise.
Hmmmm. Much thought went into this.
Of course I'd invite my new close friends. I had to open up to people at work and at meetups to form a quick support group when I realized how alone I was when H left. He was not only my best friend, but my link to my "social group" made up of ladyfriend, her friends, and people in his office (some in our lives for almost 20 years).
I also invited ladies from the office. Three of them have been very supportive of me in a quiet way (made sure I didn't spend holidays alone, asked after me).
I also invited "social group". None of them have asked after me or spoken to me unless I've contacted them, but I felt the need to invite them.
Party was great! Lots of fun. D25 and D23 worked hard to make it nice for me. The only no shows? Social group and ladyfriend. Ladyfriend did send a text saying she couldn't make it and sent a token gift (bud vase)with office ladies.Guilt? But the others proved that they are not worth my time (no RSVPs).
So, thoughts? I came away realizing social group and ladyfriend were never close...could not get past small talk, gossip (which I hate), and surface cordiality no matter how hard I tried. I could never understand why I wasn't experiencing with them what I experienced with my friends I've kept from college. There was no intimacy. If H didn't arrange something, or I didn't throw a party, they would not call me. No intimacy. I don't think H ever has it with them either (maybe ladyfriend, though), but as long as he can have fun with them, maybe its enough for him? Not my problem, though.
It made me lonely to have no intimacy in those "friendships". But til recently, I had him. Maybe that's why he calls to "vent". I don't gossip. But now I listen better. He has started asking me more questions. We used to talk in depth a lot.
My new friends are very supportive of me, of each other. There is an openness. They don't mind intimacy. We ENJOY discussions about the world, our work, religion, differences, acceptance. A few gossip, but not much. When they ask how I'm doing, they mean it. They want to do things with me. This is different. This is what I craved.
In short, this was an eye opener...an epiphany. One of many lately. I'm learning everyday about MLC and relationships, but also a heck of a lot more about me, my needs and what has been missing in my life for far too long.
And I just thought I wanted a birthday party.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Happy Birthday Cil. And what a great one it was. Here's to many more, my friend
Me 47 H 49 S18 S15 M 21 BD #1 11/09/15 ILYBNILY I believe we are Piecing 1/2/16 Suspect EA/PA? 2/28/16 BD #2 "He tried, but needs passion." 2/28/16 Confirm PA 3/11/16, he's leaving in June H leaves 5/7/16
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
My lovely Cil. Let me start by saying Happy Birthday to one very special woman. I want to say "my look how she's all grown up". It seems so apt to me see you glowing and growing on the MLC board and seeing it is your birthday it should be acknowledge.
I read the above about your birthday gathering it sounds delightul and your friends sound so warm and delicious. I am glad that you had an experience of love and friendship on the best day of anyone's year, their belly button day.
I wish I was their to share a glass or two of, lets say Pinot Gris ( my fav- all aromatic) - a little bit of spice for us Cil.
There are amazing people on the MLC forum board, I know they will take care of you and love you well. They are good with the kick in the pants when needed too.
Much love Cil, always your little kiwi friend Jellyxxx
Interesting note (to me, anyway) since I feel the need to journal here. I had a short text exchange with H yesterday (initiated by me) as one of our applinces quit working and repair person could only give me an arrival window that would interfere with work. H said he could be there (his day off). Discussion over.
H called later at night to ask what was wrong with appliance. Made it clear that he was only calling about that. He kind of kept hanging on phone so I then felt the need to tell him I had a nice talk with his parents, that they had called to wish me HB. He seemed surprised and needed to let me know that that was completely unprompted by him-they did it on their own. I just laughed and said it was nice. I ended the call as he seemed to start dragging it out. He was in one of his taking care of business moods. Kind of unemotional, tired, almost cross but not ready to initiate hanging up. His happy/friendly mask is off and he's not showing ANY emotion; like a shell. Just...blahhh. I never know what I'm going to get.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
When you think of it, we here are working on our reactions and attitudes, working on GAL, being kind, cordial, compassionate
if we are not the person we want to be, we are actively working to better ourselves in every way
The MLCer is not working on any aspect of their personality their main goal is to have fun or create a fantasy life with less responsibility
so it makes sense their moodiness
seems like your H wanted to make it clear at least at that moment that he is out I think they don't want to give us false hope I think they are very confused a lot of the time
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
I agree that he wanted to show that he was out. His comment on his parents, though, was that he was amazed that they were able to remember my bday. His mom has alzheimers and his dad has been acting stressed and confused as he has had to take over her job of remembering special occassions. He even commented that his dad must have created quite the calendar.
H usually shuts down after work...I dont usually get a call on work days. But still, I have been seeing changes in behavior lately. Not sure if i would call them positive. Ive accepted that this D is going to happen. But Im still standing.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
H called again, this time to ask what day to come work on our property. I'm so glad he caught me driving to a GAL activity, too. He suggested asking a teen friend that I had hired last year to come help us clean up the property. I explained that he would want to be paid. H said he would pay him.
This from the person who was so worried about money and told me not to spend any, and after being told that our appliance needed repair. I also know that he got a list of repairs needed to sell the house from my L. And we both got a letter from the mediator spelling their costs (H said he would pay).
I am surprisingly just shaking my head and chuckling. I have always handled the finances and have had to deal with his thoughtless spending in the past few years. I was always able to smooth things over, even though savings and such suffered. I was always able to shuffle things around and stretch our paychecks to cover.
In the past, he was very careful with money. Had the attitude of if you can't pay cash, don't buy it. I respected his investment knowledge,his budgeting, his thriftyness. I followed suit and taught myself even more about those things. We didn't buy name brands; garage sales, thrift shops, and seconds stores became places to treasure hunt, craigslist was a great addition. My kids learned all of this very well. We were able to put money away and still travel or do fun things for us or the kids when we wanted.
But as MLC hit, it was clear that he had changed. When I would say I didn't think we could afford a certain purchase, he would literally stomp his feet and say, "I'm a ______(insert profession here). I can make as much money as I want to make). Don't tell me I can't afford it!". When I pointed out one time how much money he spent on alcohol in one month (he switch from beer to fancying himself a bartender who loved making mixed drinks for all the ladies), he acted like it was a normal thing (it was a very large amount).
But, as said before, he fired me as his advisor and wife. He's on his own with his money worries. I need to focus on me. This D is a business transaction. It makes me sad to see how a man I still very much love is hurting, and is so depressed and worried about money, work, retirement...but he needs to deal with his choices. His choices are what has him over-extended. The reality needs to hit him...alone. I wonder if he'll ever come out of this?
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
I'm just reflecting on this whole situation. Spent a lot of alone time yesterday and the night before, reading up on MLC, cleaning house, packing things up.
Watched "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" for a bit as I was writing some thank you notes. When I was dating H and early on in our marriage, everyone called him Ferris because he looked like a taller version of Matthew Broderick (Ferris). Same impish grin, big expressive eyes. H has aged better than Matthew, though. It brought back memories, but also started me thinking of the MLC stages and what I know of H's happy and unhappy experiences.
He always felt that he was the skinny, pimply-faced nerd with big ugly glasses in high school (I've seen the pictures, he really wasn't). He felt no girl would want to be with him. He ended up dating a younger Mormon girl who, when she let him hold her hand, it was a big deal. His dad, a very controlling person who loved to tell him how he did everything wrong, was very vocal about how he didn't like her. My H, very stubborn, was drawn to her more by this.
When she went off to college (he was a year older and commuted to a local school), H drove two states away to visit her. She acted like it inconvenienced her and hadn't told anyone she even had a boyfriend. He did this twice and slept in his truck. After the second effort, he gave up on her; rejected, embarrassed, sad and angry.
I'm seeing some parallels in our situation. He has convinced himself that I didn't like him or love him; I was also "always telling him he was wrong" even though I never uttered those words. I never appreciated the things he did for me, either. Is he revisiting these low points in his life through targeting me? Getting through these old insecurity issues by taking control by rejecting me as he felt rejected?
The good times in his life were when he later lived away from home and went to grad school. He (see if this sounds familiar) ate, slept, and did school during the week and had no life, but on the weekends he played hard with his friends, drank (he was finally 21), hosted barbecues at his home, and skied AND brought friends up to his grandfather's lake house during the warmer seasons. Much like now. Then, the world was his oyster...he had a rosy future ahead of him. I think he was desperate to relive those good times and he is now doing that. Weird.
His friends (my former social group) that are still with him were those former popular kids that he wasn't accepted by in high school (not really, just symbolically) the athletes and party girls, the cheerleaders. But now he can play bartender, provide his own waterfront party venue, and take them on fun "business trips" as vacations. He has a way in!
I know this sounds bitter, but I guess I'm just trying to make sense of something that doesn't really make sense...a way of controlling something I have no control over by looking for answers. Is he tired, sad, and depressed right now because he's entering a new stage? Is it just because he's around me? The more I try NC, the more he contacts me, but we also have a lot to do together due to impending D. I can drive myself nutty analyzing each detail. So I guess I just wait, but live my life at the same time.
He's supposed to come over and work on the property with me today. And I will smile, make eye contact, be cheerful and no R talk or probing questions. Remember my mantra. I wonder who he will be?
This is just a crazy situation.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Reliving the past is all part of MLC. He's projecting on to you what the girlfriend did to him. Being tire, sad and depressed is all part of the MLC. Depression is the main ingredient and will be w/him for a long time. What he is doing is very, very normal for someone in crisis. He's scared of growing old and want that one chance to go back in time to see what happened. He was stunted emotionally as a child and yes, it sounds like his father did a number on him. He has to go back to that time and figure things out and accept that there was nothing he could do about it and then start to grow up.
It's not YOU...it's all about HIM and his childhood issues.
Of course, the more you go NC, the more he's going to contact you. It's the distance/pursuit game. Also, in his own way, he doesn't want to cut the tie w/you. Try to remember, you didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him.
Keep the focus on you because if you try to analyze his every word or action, it will drive you nuts. Emotions have a way of taking over for them and when they are emotionally, rational thinking goes out the window.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I hope it goes well working with your H today. It's so hard because everything will seem normal until you remember that it's not.
Knowledge is power. It is good that you are doing lots of reading on MLC. I have read so much and it has helped me be more compassionate toward what he is going through. I also just today read more on depression and how it affects marriages. It is unbelievable how these guys' behavior is so similar!
Nel
Me: 51 H:50 M: 28 years T: 31 years 4 Ds: 24, 22, 19, 17 BD Jan 2013 D filed Feb 2015 Papers pulled Aug 2015 D re-filed Jan 2016
Oh my. I think I've blown it all to heck and back. And I almost don't care.
Midweek I had a real estate agent come to our home to value it and then we headed up to the vacation home to get a value on it. After she had left, after I had told stories about things in each room, I was overcome with emotion. Then I got angry. I did more work on that house than anyone and yet I have been told I'm not welcome there. So, I removed all of my clothing, makeup, toothbrush, etc. Then all of my paintings. Then all of my DVDs. If I could have, I would have removed every piece of furniture I acquired, refinished, and hauled into the house. Unpainted every wall. Punched holes into every place I had patched. Unhung every shelf, towel bar, light fixture, etc. So Angry.
H came over and, although he would talk in short statements, refused to look at me. He had brought a bunch of boxes from work for me to use to pack up the house (I had asked him to). He mentioned that he had spent the night at the vacation home...nothing about all that was missing, but he could also see that they were displayed around my living room and stair area. We worked on the property together, but his absolute refusal to look at me (he talked to the air) started to bother me.
Our mediation is a week away. A few weeks ago, he had said that he wanted to hammer out a plan as much as we could before mediation, but we never did. So, I brought that up. I then found out that even though he's been meeting with his L for quite a few weeks, he knew nothing other than the date. He didn't know the cost, time allotted, or (if he was honest) what he needed to bring. I told him I had to prove a lot of financials and values. I sure hoped he had his info, because we were paying a lot for this guy's time. He looked surprised.
I suddenly realized how unemotional he was about this whole thing. He did say it bothered him that one of us wouldn't be living in our house and mentioned the dog a few times, but H just seemed great with our D. It got to me. R talk happened...almost mutually.
This time, however, because he was so done and uncaring and unapologetic, my anger bunnies started to stampede. All of those angry, imaginary conversations I'd had while walking through the house alone? Those words were finally verbalized. I didn't yell, or plead, or beg, and there were only a few tears that sneaked out.
He told me he'd tried for years to save our marriage. I countered with you didn't try WITH me. He told me he told me over and over that we had problems and I just didn't listen. I told him alluding to being unhappy or just saying "I'm fine" when I asked what's wrong or why he looked sad was not communicating. Turning to another woman was not working on our marriage. The fact that everyone saw that he was doing that was even worse.
I did not DB. I did not do much validating. I let everything out. There was no screaming or yelling. Some intensity. And then I was done.
What did I learn from this? His contempt for me through his eye rolling was obvious. How do you fight contempt? He also mentioned my air of superiority. I guess I do come across that way to others, but I always followed his lead and was pretty humble around him. As that also is a term he wouldn't normally use, I suddenly realized...those were not his words. That is something his lady friend would say. He has worked on our marriage with HER.
I guess I'm just going to accept this D. I can't put that anger back in me...it felt too good to let it out. It did nothing for my M, I know, but at least its out. H's reactions, although he still held most of his feelings inside or refused to verbalize, let me know how little he really valued our M. He thinks he "tried". But he didn't work with me at all. I don't see that changing ever, at this point.
This is the first time that we've interacted that I haven't felt sad or hopeful the next day.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
My heart is just breaking for you right now Cil. I have no words that could even come close to helping you.
Me 47 H 49 S18 S15 M 21 BD #1 11/09/15 ILYBNILY I believe we are Piecing 1/2/16 Suspect EA/PA? 2/28/16 BD #2 "He tried, but needs passion." 2/28/16 Confirm PA 3/11/16, he's leaving in June H leaves 5/7/16
You know? I got tired of being pleasant, sweet and cheerful. I got to have my say. I got to give my point of view. I got to show my anger at the situation and his inability to express himself.
He arrived an hour late and refused to look at me. He got to see the vacation home with bare walls and no sign of my stuff. I have no idea why he didn't move my stuff out of sight as I had done with his at our home. It looked like I was still staying there. So, I "helped" by moving it out. Why would that upset him (I know, mind reading) enough to not look at me? Did he LIKE it surrounding him?
I feel surprisingly good. More focused. Stronger. My door is still propped open, but my back is to it.
H and I still have things to accomplish together before this D is up. He called to check on our appliance this morning and waited here for the repairman until I was almost home. Waved as he passed me. Called to check on appliance and, when I tried to get him off the phone, wanted to talk politics. As if nothing happened. He still is trying to be friends. SMDH. This MLC is just sad. But my blasting really seems to have helped me drop the rope. I can feel better about moving forward now. Still hoping he finds his way out.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Sometimes we have to let them have it. You've stated your thoughts and feelings and you are going to feel better about it. Now, you just pick yourself up and continue moving forward.
Your h couldn't look at you because he feels a lot of guilt. If he looked at you, he would have seen the pain in your eyes and that would have made him feel worse. His empathy chip is broken and/or nonexistent right now. He has to make himself cold so that he doesn't feel anything. It's all part of the MLC. Trust me, when he was by himself later, he thought a lot about selling the house and vacation home.
Don't worry about whether or not you messed things up. Again, sometimes we have to tell them like it is and this was one of those times.
Continue to focus on you and keep moving forward.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I did need to blow out all that was in my head. I guess it really bothered me that every time we had positive interactions, it was mostly due to me being fun and cheerful and acting "as if". He could probably feel no pressure or guilt. He could look me in the eye and we could smile together at each other as if nothing was wrong. I'm sure seeing the vacation home without my presence in the form of my stuff gave the opposite effect. It probably showed him it wasn't all ok, and hence the guilt and no eye contact.
We are only selling our home, the one I'm living in. He asked to keep the vacation home, as he has "a cr#ppy apartment" and goes there as much as possible on weekends. I agreed with him keeping it and his office, but was assessing the vacation home because I want him to buy me out.
He did mention for the first time that the vacation home didn't work out the way he'd planned...that neither of our kids think of it as theirs and never go up. They are supporting themselves and often work on weekends..its too far away for a quick day trip. He has never understood this. He mentioned selling it but not being able to right now because of the D.
He has made no effort to move any of his stuff out of our home. I wish he would, as I have been packing up stuff to give to kids, sell, donate, or keep. We're still early in this game, though. I blew off enough steam that I can go back to no pressure on him.
I really appreciate the support you all on this forum give. It has made this journey so much more bearable.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Give him a drop dead date of packing up his stuff. Advise him that if he doesn't have it packed and gone by such and such date, that you are going to have someone come in and get the stuff and take it to Goodwill or some other place. I don't care if he is acting like a brat, he's old enough to pack this stuff up.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I think we need to blow that steam here and there! Honestly, it's well deserved and it keeps our sanity. So, now you got it off your chest and you keep moving forward. Let him chew on it. And like Job said, he can't look at you because of guilt. I had those days, I blew up and let H have it quite a bit in the beginning.
Just don't hold onto it, find your peace and be good to you. You are doing good, during a really difficult time. Stay strong. ((Hugs))
Me 48 H 46 S 11 M 2004 BD 8/13 H moved out 2/15 -live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
What Job said about being cold...And empathy chip missing? Rings true here. My WAS is fine and best friendy until Wham he gets hit with another wave of my anger. So whether it's the guilt over what they know they have done to us, or a discomfort in facing anger, or even in the denial of how they feel about theit own actions, the turtle in his shell is one of many defense mechanisms.
I don't like sit with the anger and and have let it out when I need to. Then i can go back to my own GAL and PMA in order to move forward, although at a snail's pace.
It's actually not been that long for us, and I think we're doing quite well.
Buttercup
Me 50 H 51 M 17 T 20 D16 H EA Feb 2014 BD Sept 2015 H moved out Nov 2015 W Filed D papers Mar 2016
Its funny, I've been waiting to slide back into despair, the usual result of an R talk with H. It hasn't happened. I'm going to agree with you all that letting of steam was probably a good thing.
I didn't mention it before, but this struck me as funny thinking about it later. After working on the property, H came in and wanted to look at our fridge (he was going to come over and wait for the repairman the next day until I could leave work). We were in the middle of R talk. He kept trying to focus on the fridge and give me direction on helping him clean it and I kept steering him back to the talk as I helped. After we had cleaned up the water from melted ice, he could have left, but he used THOROUGHLY cleaning the fridge as a way to avoid talking. I mean took out glass and scrubbed brackets! I stopped helping and made myself dinner and ate it (I did say there was food if he wanted it). He cleaned it for 2 hours. He kept walking over to me as I ate and I would R talk with him and then he'd go back to cleaning. It wasn't that bad, just had a little water pooled and some drips I hadn't seen where the condiments went. But he took the entire shelf assembly out and apart. He could have left and avoided my venting and questions, but instead he stayed and cleaned.
He did this the last time we had R talk...scrubbed my (clean) kitchen sink while we talked for an hour. I think I should have R talk in the bathroom next time!
H did call the next day to make sure fridge wasn't getting worse and then texted back and forth about repair appointment. This was the first time he stayed at the house alone since he left...he took advantage of the large tv, comfy couch, and satellite tv (he only has 3 stations at his apartment) and was happy about that. It was a home theater set-up that he created and was right next to the room all of his "stuff" is being stored in. I wonder if he had any feelings about that or even noticed?
He ended up leaving when I was 5 minutes from house and passing me on the road with a friendly wave (he was on the phone with me and told me repair guys were on the way). After the guys left and I had updated him via text, he called and asked a few questions, but then wanted to talk about his day and politics, his trip to his L...I answered in very short replies after trying to say goodbye twice. Finally, mid-story, he said "you probably don't want to talk to me, do you?" Like it just occurred to him what our sitch was. I said, "no, but I'll listen." So he kept telling me what he was telling me and then some. I was able to finally say I had to go. A whole conversation (well mostly him talking) about things we actually both have interest in and agree on. This from the guy who says he doesn't like me and says we're too different.
I ask myself constantly, am I holding on to H out of habit? Am I just scared to let him go because I'll be alone? I've done a lot of deep soul searching and a lot of work on myself and who I am. What my wants, needs, interests are without H. I've even questioned whether or not I really enjoyed our "common" interests or really disliked the things I've pulled back from (and why I pulled back). I'm still testing myself on some things and still have a list of things (growing list!) that I want to try. But I'm realizing that I may not NEED him in my life, but I still feel a strong connection and love for him. I still want him in my life. He says he doesn't like me or need me, but I guess I'll go back to the actions speak louder than words idea. We'll have to wait and see. I no longer feel like I'm going to shrivel up and die without him.
Anyway, big GAL moment I'm excited for...I just signed up to be a co-coach for our special education h.s. soccer team! So I'll be busier this season. I am also moving forward on the idea of getting my masters. Narrowed it down to a few local programs and looking at a few online. Talking to counselors is next. Whew! excited and scared.
Also got real estate valuation for the home. Not what we put into it, but higher than I thought it would be. A lot of work to do, but that's a start.
Moving forward with my life. Still love my confused MLC guy. Still standing. But just not standing still.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
I think most MLCers have moments of clarity they miss the house, their stuff, the TV, the family
Maybe it briefly passes thru their thoughts that they are giving up a lot of stuff they will newer admit it
and in the end many of them do opt to leave a ll the stuff they worked for- for a fantasy life that will never be created
some start to realize it later after their dream life turns to dust
one of my best friends who also went thru this is now best friends with her XH He is actively pursuing her for the last 6 months she doesn't want him back he like so many others mlcers he had so much lost it-and has nothing at this point and is working temp jobs
You on the other hand sound like as you move forward your fantasy life will be created from hard work and perseverance
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Job, I can't remove things from the house as part of our temporary orders. I can move things between houses, but not total removal of his stuff. So right now that would be an empty threat.
But long those lines...question time.
The only art in H's office is mine. I have a meeting set up in two weeks with a gallery to display my work. I am thinking of removing most of my work from H's office. It is a source of pride for him and he gets very excited about every compliment, every sign of interest from clients, and every sale. He loves that I create and he and his staff love the pictures. This would be a very big and very noticeable move on my part, and would generate some uncomfortable conversations with clients. He still speaks of supporting my art career, and that venue does get me attention, but it feels like cake eating in a way.
Any thoughts? Should I make that a part of mediation and D?
He is also my healthcare provider and I have an appointment soon. I'm thinking of cancelling it and going to a friend in the same profession, but this will impact a supportive friend in his office as well.
Just some questions I've been wrestling with.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
I think I would let him know that you are considering taking the art work out of his office and I would point out that you are planning to have your work displayed at a gallery in the near future. The art work is yours and I would imagine it is on loan to the office and you didn't "gift or sell" it to the office. I would certainly discuss it in mediation.
I would also consider retaining my own healthcare provider. I certainly wouldn't want him to have any knowledge of issues dealing with my health, if they should come up in the future. But, that's my opinion. I would certainly encourage you to look around before saying anything about changing up.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I would agree on getting your own healthcare provider, but I’m not so sure about the artwork. I think that if you are ready to cut all the ties with your H, then yes, go ahead and ask for your art to be removed from his office. If not, I would leave it alone. Just my opinion. Unless it represent a significant value and something that needs to be discussed up front in terms of assets.
M:50 H:52 S28 (my S from previous marriage) M:17 + 3 BD: 06/12 S: 06/12 - H works in another state
Thank you job and Bright for weighing in. I appreciate the ideas.
My mediation is Monday and I have no idea what to expect. I guess I'll just see how that goes and then revisit the issues.
I'm just strangely calm right now about everything except for little issues like those. I've actually been able to sleep through the night and wake only a half hour before my alarm goes off. I'd been waking up one, two, or three hours after hitting the pillow. This is a welcome change.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
I'm glad to come here and read that you are able to get a bit more sleep. You'll find that your energy level will perk up w/getting more sleep.
The most important thing is to take care of yourself.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
-Feeling a little down today. Its H's birthday and I sent him a Happy Birthday text. He sent me one which I thanked him for so I sent his (no reply). So that was on par with the new normal.
But then I spoke to my mother, who had to tell me she called to wish him a happy birthday and briefly spoke to him. She then said she asked if he would be getting cake anywhere and he had replied he probably was. She loves to dish. So I had to set some boundaries. I explained that I didn't need to hear things like that. It just starts my mind cycling on who? where? Did he ask? How many former "friends"? Big party? What am I missing? I then start comparing all the things I have had to do for myself and how I feel like a victim in this situation. I explained again. THIS IS NOT FOR YOU TO GET INVOLVED IN. THIS IS NOT FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT. I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR ALL THAT HE IS DOING OR WHAT PEOPLE ARE DOING FOR HIM. I really don't want to focus on him. She calls me twice a day to talk about how I'm doing, but I've taken to avoiding her calls due to her using it to entertain herself under the guise of helping.
Anyway. Just venting. I'll go back to my regularly scheduled getting my house sorted and packed up party.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Keep your expectations at zero. It was nice of you to send your h birthday greetings, but he may or may not recognize your text today. Some day, he may mention it. I know you are disappointed, but try not to focus on it. You did what you would normally do for anyone that is celebrating their special day.
As for whether he's celebrating his birthday or not...who knows and right now...you don't need to worry about it. When your mother questioned him about today, he may have lied to her just so that it would get back to you...again, not your circus to deal w/today. Your mother apparently loves the drama and wants to be all up in the middle of it. I think you did the right thing by telling her that you didn't want to hear about what he's doing, etc. Set your boundaries w/her, i.e., the less you tell her the better.
You are doing well...don't allow the MLC train to derail your plans for the day.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thanks, job, for being the voice of reason. I'm better now that I've vented. I'm normally an "outside" type of girl, but the rain is a bit much so I'm doing all inside stuff today. I get a little stir crazy.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
You can vent all you want to/ need to. Thats why we are here.
I am normally an outside girl too (well, when its nice out.) But sometimes I like a rainy crappy day so I can get some laundry done. Or vacuum. Or just watch movies all day!! I call it " a Lifetime movie day". We all need those once in a while.
Me 47 H 49 S18 S15 M 21 BD #1 11/09/15 ILYBNILY I believe we are Piecing 1/2/16 Suspect EA/PA? 2/28/16 BD #2 "He tried, but needs passion." 2/28/16 Confirm PA 3/11/16, he's leaving in June H leaves 5/7/16
Mel, I think I would like the rainy,crappy day better if it hadn't been such a long-feeling winter and it wasn't H's B-day.
I started a lot of projects, ie packing up house, researching grad programs, looking at housing options and neighborhoods, laundry, etc. Watched a good movie, "Suffregette". We have it much better than the women in the movie, LOL.
D25 called to say she is still unpacking boxes from her move and saving boxes and newspaper for me. I really love her for that! Hoping to meet up with her after work this week-haven't seen her since she moved.
Today looks to be very pretty out, so I think I'll go work more on the property. H was supposed to come out and help, but hasn't called. I am not going to call him (sticking to my guns and no more R talk!) No matter, it has to get done one way or the other.
Nervous about mediation tomorrow, so maybe not the best day to work with him any way.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Just want to wish you good luck in your mediation tomorrow. I will be thinking of you.
Me 47 H 49 S18 S15 M 21 BD #1 11/09/15 ILYBNILY I believe we are Piecing 1/2/16 Suspect EA/PA? 2/28/16 BD #2 "He tried, but needs passion." 2/28/16 Confirm PA 3/11/16, he's leaving in June H leaves 5/7/16
Wishing you the best of luck tomorrow. Dress to the nines, hold your head up, back straight and look them in the eye when addressing them. Don't allow them to see you sweat! Leave the emotions at the door and look at this as a business deal only.
You've got this!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Good luck today, Cil! Show him that confident woman that you are! Keep reminding yourself....it's just a business transaction....it's just a business transaction....it's just a business transaction....
Me: 51 H:50 M: 28 years T: 31 years 4 Ds: 24, 22, 19, 17 BD Jan 2013 D filed Feb 2015 Papers pulled Aug 2015 D re-filed Jan 2016
Thank you everyone for the kind words, wishes, and support. It was very, very much appreciated.
I've had a day or so to digest the first mediation. As much as you try to prepare for something, there are always surprises.
My biggest surprise was how incredibly unwell my H looked. Gray, slack, hunched, with a deeply lined face. He looked exhausted and sick. I just saw him last week, but we were outside. For the little bit that I saw him, he kept trying to reach out to make jokes and be friendly with me, but in a tired way, if that makes sense. It seemed like he felt I was the only friend in a group of strangers...I guess I was. I was pretty aloof, partially due to my own nervousness.
Everyone, including H, wanted to hold mediation in the same room. Everyone except H's obnoxious, loud, pitbull L. She insisted on the two separate rooms so that it took two and a half hours of back and forth to agree on what H and I had already agreed on before. Nothing else was decided because no assessments had been made on assets he wanted to keep. No leg work had been done, except what my L had me do. H's L drew it all out to fill the time allotted.
When we later met to go over agreements, H kept making eye contact with me, and when I asked questions or made statements, he agreed with me over his L. It made me realize that she had us in separate rooms solely to draw out the process for the full time allotted. She could be paid more. Ridiculous.
I ended up calling him when I got home 2 hours after. He seemed glad I called. I told him he looked exhausted and he agreed he was. He is literally throwing himself into work and still feeling like he's barely keeping his head above water. I feel sorry for him, but he made the decisions that have caused him to be so overextended. We talked about what happened in mediation (I don't think he has the energy to fight his L for what he says he wants), we talked about what we needed to get done, we talked about his family, what happens after D, and ...a little about his feelings. He cried a little. So did I, but that's normal.
I have said before, when he's tired his mask is off. He can open up and show his fears, his sadness, his depression. He can have an intimate conversation. But when I called him the next morning to ask him to do something, he was awake enough that the mask was back on. The in-charge, "I-don't-think-I-like-you" H was back. He was bristley and defensive, so luckily my call was brief and all business.
My L thanked me in an email that evening for handling the mediation with strength, grace, and class. She also was frustrated by the process and firmly blamed H's L for wasting our time. At least we know what to expect next time. I think we will be much more prepared.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
I'm sorry his lawyer ate up a lot of time to get billable hours. That tells you what she thinks about her client and doing a good job w/o charging an arm and a leg to do so. At least your lawyer appears to be on the up and up.
As for his appearance, I'm not surprised to come here and read how he looked. A lot of them look like that for a while and then they slowly start looking a bit better.
I'm glad this is over and done with. Hopefully next time things will be handled quicker and move on to the next phase w/o much "busy" work by his lawyer.
I hope that you are okay. Take care.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I woke up from a strange dream very early this morning. I was at my home talking to my mother and we were looking at the view out the window. It is normally a view of a large field with a big red barn, surrounded by trees with foothills and then mountains beyond. Very relaxing. But in the dream it kept changing and I felt uneasy as I sensed something was off. Then I realized someone had created a fence across my field, not far from my back door, then cattle feeders appeared, then cattle, then I could see children running around and men working. I was trying to confront the (very nice) people as they were then building a large house right across from my back door. They also had long tables set up to feed the work crews and there was dancing and live music...like the wedding this summer in the back yard or like the get togethers at the river house. I kept thinking, "you're blocking my view of the water (there was now a body of water, much like our vacation house)" and no one will buy my house now. I felt despair...sad that I had no control over the situation and was helpless, while everyone was having such a great time enjoying what they had built together. Then I woke up.
I was thinking of skiing today, but D25 decided to come over at 11, so I'm not.
Unexpectedly, H called to see if I was going skiing. This from the guy who didn't respond to my text telling him about some house business and who didn't acknowledge our anniversary even with a "Happy St. Patricks Day" (to be fair, that's just my pity party...I didn't send him anything either...nothing to celebrate). He ended up talking to me all the way up to the ski hill. We did talk as friends, but I also let him know how I felt that we needed to decide most of what we wanted outside of mediation so that the L (his L)didn't cost him an arm and a leg. He agreed with me that what took us 2 1/2 hours in separate rooms of mediation should have taken about an hour together face to face (he corrected me and said 1/2 an hour). We agreed that we would make the time to do this. I admitted that I was a little jealous that he got to ski today...it is beautiful out. He mentioned waxing my skis for me. I said I wasn't his concern and would figure things out for myself. I'm not sure if I should be that way, though. On the one hand, I feel I am letting him know that I don't need him (especially since he has stated he doesn't need me). But is this DBing? His LL is Act of Service...and I've always kind of done things for myself. 180 for me is to show him I DO need him?
I didn't even say thank you for the offer. I do have some issues with giving him mixed signals myself. I try to listen and validate and be cheerful much of the time, but when he offers to do things for me I get mad. I don't know why. Maybe because I feel I need/want him emotionally, but he's not willing to give that. But he seems to want me to depend on him for what he used to do for me as just perks of being his friend? He calls and talks to frends, he waxes his friends' skis, he helps friends move, he makes drinks for friends. I don't want to just be a friend. We were married for a long time and he has hurt me to my core. It shows, as I get very clipped with him as I did with him offering his help. Consistency is apparently not my strong suit, though. It takes an hour to get to the ski hill, and we talked for about that long.
Sometimes I just miss him so much, miss our good dynamic, I just want to listen to his voice a talk for hours. I can forget the bad stuff when we talk. For a little bit.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
It's okay not to take him up on his offer to wax our skis. It's all a personal preference and you will need to determine what you will and will not accept in the way of "acts of service" from him. Evidently he is thinking of you as a friend right now and being emotionally distant is very typical of someone in crisis.
I'm glad you are doing okay and I think you handled the conversation about what you both need to do before dealing w/the lawyers again.
It's one step at a time and as you begin to find your footing once again, you will feel more comfortable w/the decisions that you make. It's human nature to question whether or not you are doing the right thing by declining his offer because only you can determine what you will or will not accept in the way of "services" from him.
Try to enjoy your weekend.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I have said before, when he's tired his mask is off. He can open up and show his fears, his sadness, his depression. He can have an intimate conversation. But when I called him the next morning to ask him to do something, he was awake enough that the mask was back on. The in-charge, "I-don't-think-I-like-you" H was back. He was bristley and defensive, so luckily my call was brief and all business.
I had this same experience around Christmas time. My STBXW showed remorse and regret of her choices. All words and no action kept me away and not playing into that game. If it was real, it was a mere glimpse of the old version of W.
You seem very well. Your interaction with your H on the divorce proceeding is what I would love to have. If it's going to happen, I would like it so much for it to happen with us communicating. Lawyers like to go back and forth.
wish you well and Happy Saint Patrick's weekend.
Irish
M51 XW43 (38 at bd) BD1 MAY 30 2015 BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text moved out Aug 2 2015 left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20) Her divorce Final July 26 2016 Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Your STBXW showed remorse and regret? My H keeps telling me he's sorry. When he was spending so much time with his ladyfriend and I would get emotional and call him on it, he would apologize and be very lovey to me...and then do it again. My D25 brought this up yesterday when she was visiting.
She is a newlywed. This is affecting her very new relationship with her husband. She says she looks at him and feels so much love for him, but then remembers how much in love H and I were. Everyone who knew us would comment on how we were such good friends, partners, and so loving even a few years ago. She said she was happy and secure knowing that her parents had such a great relationship. It scares her that things can turn without real warning.
I had to explain that depression had been there for years; she said she knew, but he always seemed to snap out of it. Be the crazy, fun, life of the party or go back to hugging and holding us all. I had to tell her; that was a mask. It takes a lot of energy to put that mask on. But I slept in the same bed (not so much for the past few years) and knew he woke up from nightmares. When I asked him to tell me what scared him, they were almost always about us loved ones either leaving him or being threatened by danger and him not being able to save us. His fear of abandonment and overwhelming sense of responsibility/fear of not being able to protect us were weighing on him heavily. At night when his mask was off.
He still cares and he is still fighting to not feel responsible, but he does. He still tries to do things for us, control us, "save us from ourselves". He acts detached at other times. By pushing us away I think he is lonely and has been reaching out more on non work days, when he is not throwing himself into his work.I haven't been great at DBing and often bring up R. A different tact each time. I'm trying to fight my impatience. But sometimes I think it gives him something to consider while he is alone.
All I can do at this point is try to understand what he is going through while making my own plans for my new single life. I have told my daughter, at least she has a career. Make a life that is separate from your husband so you don't become co-dependent. But love and understand your H. Make sure you are communicating.
I will try to be the lighthouse. I hope my H makes it through the tunnel. H was a great guy. He's still in there somewhere...I've seen him peeking out.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
With pain and experience comes wisdom (at least I hope it comes).
Of course, this is from someone who tried to help her neighbor with a horse and ended up making a rookie mistake. Second time in my life I've been thrown. I'm a little sore today.
Thanks for stopping by, mutatio. These boards don't get as much traffic as "newcomers" but the advice and stories are a little more relevant to my situation.
Its hard to watch my daughters go through this. I have to find that balance when talking to them between reassuring them that I'm ok and reminding them to love their father and be loving because he is fighting his own battles.
H came over yesterday to work and I made breakfast...offered him some. He brought me coffee for my Keurig which was nice and unexpected. We worked hard on our property and then met with the realtor. Interestingly, in mediation his L was pushing for a fast sale of our house without doing the work to fix problems. But H told our realtor to price the house higher and that he wasn't in a hurry, he wanted a better price and asked for a much higher asking price. I'll take that at face value...too hard to try mindreading.
We continued to work but he had to leave to see a patient earlier than planned. He kept apologizing. We had worked well together,as usual, but no great interactions. He seemed deep in thought during our breaks, and said almost nothing. He still just looks tired.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
I was supposed to meet up with D23 today, but I seem to have a concussion from my horsey accident yesterday, so I opted out to go lay down at home.
H called and was frustrated, almost upset. We had sat down to go over taxes a week ago and he was very unsure of how to fill out the financial info that he had taken over (our vacation home taxes and interest on loan). Three phone calls. I had to apologize to him...I was a little out of it and fuzzy due to the concussion. I had to explain that it was all on the statements, but for some reason he almost seemed in a panic. I tried to be calming, validating, and helpful, but he was...spinning? I let him go and he went on a rant about taxes and how much he pays and on and on.
He then kept apologizing and telling me how much he hated taxes and accounting and how he appreciated that I did this for him in the past. I just let him go. I told him there was no need to apologize, he could call me whenever he needed to vent; it didn't bother me to listen...never has, never will. He sounded so panicked. I felt so calm (well... head injury, fatigue, duh).
He did briefly ask how I was and if I knew what to do about the concussion...did I google it? LOL. I couldn't resist saying, "Dude. Not my first rodeo." Well, its not!
Really, the tax stuff was all on the statements and even though its the first time he has gotten our personal stuff ready for the accountant, its just not that hard. I'm very worried about him. I'm seeing the MLC is affecting more than just our R. I'm glad I just listened to him go. At least he kept apologizing.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
How are you doing today? Feeling better after your accident?
I think your handled the conversation w/your h very well. You've learned the art of detachment and you listened and validated him and his rant about taxes.
Nice job! Keep up the good work!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Cil---checking in on how you are today. How many fingers am I holding up?? I had a concussion quite a few years ago and I blame my never ending migraines on it. Hope you are taking care of yourself.
Me 47 H 49 S18 S15 M 21 BD #1 11/09/15 ILYBNILY I believe we are Piecing 1/2/16 Suspect EA/PA? 2/28/16 BD #2 "He tried, but needs passion." 2/28/16 Confirm PA 3/11/16, he's leaving in June H leaves 5/7/16
I'm doing better today. Thanks, job and Mel. Headache is small now; just dealing with pulled muscles on the sides of my neck and some bruises.
I did get a text from H yesterday asking how I was. That was surprising, as he has been avoiding commenting on or asking me anything about me since he moved out. I gave a brief answer back and then nothing else from him. I allowed myself to be amused/slightly happy that he texted, though.
Trying to keep a calm balance with GAL and relaxing alone time. When H left, holiday season was just starting to ramp up. My way of dealing with the emotions was to throw myself into activities right and left and fill my time driving from one thing to another. I joined tons of meetup groups. When I was by myself at home I just wanted to curl into a ball and cry. And I did do that...a lot.
I'm now at that point that I'm dropping a lot of those meetup groups and my alone time is much calmer. I'm taking two online Gale courses (free) through the library, meditation and statistics, as sort of a practice for going back to school. Its amazing how out of practice you can get on just being a student after 25 years!
In a few weeks our house will officially be on the market. H has promised to help with the house every weekend. We'll see how that goes. We still have a lot to do.
I've put out the idea of Easter breakfast to both girls, but our family is a little broken right now. My oldest begged off because she and her husband "don't want the two families to fight over time on holidays". Haven't heard back from D23. Not sure what to think. It just feels broken, but I'm not too upset by it. I plan on going to church Sunday and whatever happens beyond that happens, I guess. Its just so weird. Last year I made bread baskets for the girl's and D25's (at the time) fiancee with eggs and gardening supplies (seeds, seedlings, gloves) and a little bit of candy-their requests. This year...sounds like nothing. As I said, BROKEN. New holiday tradition.
Not having as big a pity party as that sounds. Just putting down thoughts as they occur. I never asked H what he was planning on. I'm tempted to invite him to church, but he would probably decline.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
So....journaling. D25 called to say she received a text from her MIL saying that she wanted her family for Easter dinner and another text from my H wondering what was up for Easter. She said, "Im sick of this c%$p, so I'm going to ask if he can just carpool with you and D23 and come over here for breakfast." She's an hour away.
As I was driving back from a GAL activity, she called to tell me H was planning on skiing with D23 AND ME on Saturday and might just consider that the Easter get together. ?!! News to me. And totally leaves D25 and her H out (too far for them to drive and they are new home owners/broke). Its all about my MLCer right now.
Then H called, so I let her go until later. He mentioned the same thing, but explained that he knew we had a lot of work to do on the house and wanted to use Sunday for that. So, apparently I am skiing with H and D23 to celebrate Easter a day early and working on my house on Easter and leaving D25 out completely. I need to think a bit about this. Its probably the last holiday we'll ever get to spend in the family home. I might have to stomp my feet a bit for breakfast at the house. ughhh. I don't like this.
It is interesting, though, after H not wanting to spend any part of Christmas, New Years or any holiday together he would want to include me in skiing for Easter. That seems to be the activity he's ok with me and seems to like to be around me. Good memories tied in?
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Cil--it seems like in a moment of clarity, they go "Oh yeah, I really do like/love this person," but then go "Wait. I am not suppose to being doing that!"
I hope you get to spend Easter with your girls. Wherever, however. You decide.
Me 47 H 49 S18 S15 M 21 BD #1 11/09/15 ILYBNILY I believe we are Piecing 1/2/16 Suspect EA/PA? 2/28/16 BD #2 "He tried, but needs passion." 2/28/16 Confirm PA 3/11/16, he's leaving in June H leaves 5/7/16
I woke up to no power and had to wait til I was out on the hwy on the way to ski to get in contact with anyone.
D23 wouldn't answer her phone so I called H who texted back that he was already at the lodge. D23 ditched out on skiing today, but I went on up and H met me there and seemed to be looking forward to skiing with me. Go figure...never know which H I'm going to get. He had even buried two beers in the snow on one run (he had time before I got there) which we sat back and enjoyed at the top of the mountain in a sunny spot.
Snow was great, sky was blue. No R talk. At lunch, H started to pay with a debit card...a different bank. So I now know he has opened his new checking account (I was wondering when he would). Funny. I asked him to start the process of getting my name off of the joint credit card, but he hasn't yet. I'll remember to talk to him about removing names from accounts, now.
It was a good day, fun and relaxing. He called on his way home to chat a bit, as well.
Things I did notice (and have been noticing):
He "glosses over" or ignores my mention of certain things. Me going back to school, his "ladyfriend" if I bring her up (but not her family), many of my activities, or attempts to bring up efforts in trying to decide what my living arrangements will be after the house sells. And anything sexual. This is the guy that can turn anything into a sex joke, so I've been throwing that at him once in awhile. Crickets. Like, totally ignores and is quiet...doesn't even change the subject. Its strange.
He tells me how hard he's working and how tired he is and how he has no money. How he doesn't do anything but work, sleep, eat, and (right now) ski on the weekend. I feel like he wants me to know how hard his life is so that I should be happy that I'm not with him. That I should feel lucky that he left and am able to have a life.
As long as R is not brought up, he acts like my good friend. Platonic good friend. A buddy. I can play that game...for now. I'm interested in seeing where that goes, though. Is it just for while we have to work together through selling the house and dividing things up? Because its easier to do if we're friends? I'm not sure how that will be when there's no reason to see each other anymore.
For now, I'll be his friend. I'll be here if he needs to talk or needs help. I'm moving forward, but it really is interesting to watch what happens when I don't initiate contact. Summer is coming, and with that, ladyfriend and her family and friends will be at the vacation home on many weekends. How much will I hear from him, then, I wonder. I guess I'm getting more detached. I'm not as angry as I am curious, at this point.
I'm fairly certain that will change, as well, though.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
I'm glad you had a good time on the "mountain". Listening to him chatter away can give you some insight into what he's doing w/his life. Sounds like he doesn't have a whole lot going on. The things he's telling you are not to make you glad you aren't w/him...he's just telling you about his life at the moment. BTW, they all cry about having no money. They want you to think that they don't have any...but they spend it all on themselves, their toys and their fun. They want us to feel sorry for them...don't!
And, yes, they do tend to gloss over things and will deliberately ignore things that you mention. As long as you do not bring up the relationship, he'll continue to chatter away and be a "friend". Just remember, the description for "friend" w/the mlcer is not the same as what we are familiar with.
You've got a very good handle on your situation...continue to listen and validate. You'll be surprised at what you hear if you don't offer up advice, etc. Dig deeper for patience as you continue to move forward.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thanks, job. I'm trying. I'm pretty busy trying to sort my own life right now, so it has become a lot easier to not dwell so much on his every move (except when I post!). I like that I can go back through the posts and both see the transformation from when I first started (his and mine) and re-read advice that I might have forgotten.
I guess one of my fears that had me thinking a bit last night, rolling it over in my head, was based on something H said when he was being open a week or so ago. As I've said, his mom has Alzheimers and it is a big stressor to him, although he tries to act like its not. He spoke of a dr. friend of ours describing memory being like a book shelf. If you keep putting books on it, at some point the books at the far end will fall off. I worry sometimes that the good memories of me and our girls will start to fall off as he does more things with ladyfriend and her kids and her friends kids, and that memories of their good times will still be on the shelf.
He loves families...told me that when he was in high school he couldn't wait to have a wife and a bunch of kids. High school! Our kids are basically grown now. But they have pointed out that many times that they feel "replaced" as H started being super fun "uncle H" to the kids in our social group and "flirty almost single guy" to all the moms. As I've said, I felt more and more out of place in our group.
So, today I am going to do Easter breakfast with my girls at D25's house. I encouraged H to go (lightly) yesterday, but he mentioned going to church (lady friend's church) and later coming out to our house to work. D25 was also going to again encourage him to join us, but I don't know how that went. His priorities right now...not family. Not HIS family. He's so blind.
He also won't see the successes of his kids. He complains about how expensive D25's house was, how small, how far away. Not excited that it is a beautiful house in a great, vibrant, sought after neighborhood and THAT THEY WERE ABLE TO BUY A HOUSE! He discounts her job, but she is in a great, well paying position at an award winning design company and having offers come to her from other companies because she's good! And she loves her job! The negativity toward the child that was once his buddy is weird.
My other D he goes back and forth between saying she is smart and gives great advice and calling her a "basket case" (she is in treatment for anxiety and depression, but doing well).
Both D are confused by his actions. I've tried to explain MLC to them and depression. We've all agreed to try to be patient with him, but it is painful to watch how he treats the entire family.And how we are all somehow the one's to blame, the disappointments in his life.
Ah...well. Happy Easter everyone. I'm off to drink peach bellinis with my girls and SIL.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Your h will not forget the many wonderful and happy memories that he has made w/you and your girls. Keep in mind, even if he were to get Alzheimers, they remember things of the past and tend to forget what the present day holds for them. They regress to children in many ways. Did you see the movie about Benjamin Buttons? This movie reminds me a lot of what the MLCer goes through a bit.
You do realize that your h is very jealous and resentful of what his daughters have accomplished thus far in life? Of course, he's going to put down anyone that is successful and doing great right now, because he's not getting the attention and being put on a pedestal for what he's accomplished.
Actually the negativity towards your D25 is not unusual. They tend to gravitate towards one child more than the other. Is he closer to your other daughter? He's projecting on to her how he feels about himself.
I can understand how your daughters would be confused about his behavior. Maybe you need to share some of the books that you may have read about MLC w/them. It would help them better understand some of his behavior. Jed Diamond's books are great and they may help as well.
Enjoy your day! Maybe you'll get lucky the Easter Bunny will come along and drop a few eggs on his head! LOL!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
So...Easter was odd. Had a nice time at D25's house. D23 was sick with a cold but she came with me to infect us all as we ate and chatted.
H was a no-show. Went to church with his "other family" instead. He did call as I was dropping D23 off to tell me he still wasn't feeling well and that he would be out later to work.
He came out much later than he wanted and was still not feeling well, so we started going through things in the house that he wanted to keep so I could box things up. Then, my emotions hit me... hard. "How can this not affect you? Isn't this in any way sad?" Thus commenced a big R talk. And some tears. We were both able to stay in a bit of control, though, and get through it. It just feels both so hopeless and, at the same time, like H shifts a little each time. Thinking about it more? He admitted that he had given up on things and felt bad about it; our house, our marriage. But no turning back. We agreed that we needed to be on the same page in working on D stuff, what to keep, what to sell, what to donate, what to trash.
We were able to get back to our task and end the day on friendly terms. He did ask what I was going to do after D; what my plans were. I told him about going back to school and how I hoped to buy a house at some point in the future. It was as if he had never heard me say those things before (I had...many times). MLC mind!
Not the Easter I wanted, but the Easter I got wasn't horrible. Still waiting for the Easter Bunny to drop those eggs on his head.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
I'm sorry Easter didn't turn out the way you had hoped, but at least you were able to spend some time w/your D25.
The MLCer does tend to be sick quite frequently, so I'm not surprised he said that he wasn't feeling well. I'm glad he did come out and work w/you in packing up things. Don't beat yourself up for getting emotional. It's difficult when you have a h on the run and you are packing up a lifetime of stuff and moving on w/your life w/o your life's partner there w/you, i.e., sharing in everything.
I do hope that you are feeling better today.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I don't know if H is jealous of D25. He always had a very close R with her...they look very alike and have many of the same personality traits (fun, gregarious, quick sense of humor, seemingly very sure of themselves but kind of insecure underneath). They were "buds". For some reason, he has taken a dislike to her new H (as soon as they met!) and this has damaged his relationship with her. I think it is partly because he somehow sees sil as a rival, but also because he sees that sil has traits out in the open that H also has, but tries desperately to hide (awkwardness, insecurity, anxiety around new situations or stressful situations). He sees him as the epitome of weak. I have taken the time to see his strengths, though. H doesn't want to be around him...at all. And sil has never done anything wrong...except marry H's daughter.
D23 and H always butted heads while she was younger. He used to say she would do things purposefully to tick him off or as a slap in his face. His relationship now with her seems to be a little more respectful. He listens to her advice and ideas, even though he refers to her as a "basket case" as she is being treated for ADD, anxiety and depression. She is going into the psych field and has a gift in working with teens with difficult/criminal problems. He has gained some respect for her opinions and new found calmness in analyzing a situation.
I don't think he is jealous of what they've accomplished. I think he doesn't see it as accomplishment. He is a health care professional. He actually looks down on D25 for being in graphic design...even though she works as hard as he does. No one works as hard as he does. I think he's more jealous that they have their whole lives ahead of them and time to make mistakes (he feels he doesn't?), but he is controlling enough that he thinks if they would just listen to him they wouldn't make any mistakes.
As we were in the thick of R talk on Easter, I mentioned at one point when I told him he sometimes took things as a personal slap, that he used to think D23 was doing bad things to slap him in the face. He said he had given up on that idea. He sounded very sad as he said he had given up on a lot of ideas...our marriage, our house... I'm not sure what he meant by that.
Also an interesting note (to me at least). He has mentioned in R talks (I guess R talks to me are more "relationship" than "reconcile" at this point) that I am embarassed by him. He used as example a pair of crazy patterned ski pants he wears. He was relating the story of when he bought them and how I was so embarassed and kept saying, "your not going to buy those?!". As he told the story, it went from me being embarassed to me being angry, then me being livid! He insisted that I was angry and that I was then angry at the whole shopping experience and that I was angry at him for making me go. And then that I was angry at him for even wanting to ski! So basically he went from me being embarassed of him to me being angry that he was a skier and therefore I didn't like him. This was in 10 minutes. This was an interesting insight into his line of thinking that I hadn't really seen before. Scary, actually. How do I overcome that?
Of course, I found myself defending and explaining myself during our talk. Tried to ask him questions to better explain himself and then allow me to defend or explain my side of each story...all the wrong things.
I am glad we were able to pull out of it and end on a calmer more friendly note. But I can see that he wants everyone to just leave him alone and let him do what he wants to do, without judgement. He doesn't understand how he is affecting others. I told him D25 was very upset when he chose to not come to her house for Easter and he looked truly puzzled. "Why would she be upset?" He has no idea.
Each time we have these interactions, it oddly just makes it easier for me to detach. I'm realizing how little is left on his side other than "comfortable and familiar". I'm not even sure he thinks of me as a friend. And this after a really fun day skiing together. At least I'm becoming a better skier through this.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Sorry, our posts must have crossed. H wasn't feeling well because while at the ski hill, we shared some ysters and he seemed to be having a bit of a reaction to them. But who knows.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Hm. Sorry to hear your Easter parade kind of got rained on.
This mind reading thing is what is going to drive me batty as well. Actually, its not even try to mind read, because that changes daily. But its the DAILY mind changing that is so frustrating!
Me 47 H 49 S18 S15 M 21 BD #1 11/09/15 ILYBNILY I believe we are Piecing 1/2/16 Suspect EA/PA? 2/28/16 BD #2 "He tried, but needs passion." 2/28/16 Confirm PA 3/11/16, he's leaving in June H leaves 5/7/16
I'm sorry it's been a long time since I caught up on your thread, I just needed a break from everything. I've read the last few pages about Easter and all of your interactions with your H and once again he is scarily similar to mine with the different H every day and sitting in silence at any mention of anything to do with R etc. Mine is ill and tired all the time too!
It is all so confusing but you seem to be being very level headed about it all - I don't know how you do it! I notice you do the same as me too - analysing why they are being nice and friendly - is it just to keep you sweet until all the house is settled? I find myself doing the same when my H is being nice too. It is so hard to completely detach after so many years together. Just when we think we are there something pulls on our heart strings!
I'm not sure where I am on this journey. I've gotten better at not thinking of H all day every day. I'm not sitting around having a pity party all day. I'm not focusing so much on what I've lost/ will be losing as I was. I'm too busy (in a good way) making my life and attempting a future. That great unknown is looming in front of me and I'm feeling calm (ish) and slightly excited, yet still a little sad and worried around the edges. I am concerned for my H and still love him very much, but I look at him and sometimes wonder who this man is sitting in front of me. Not my rock. Not that morally upright, thought of becoming a pastor, former Eagle Scout. Not the man who would light up and call me (pet name) in an excited happy voice and enclose me in a bear hug. Not the man that taught me how to handle finances and spending. That taught me about the stock market. That helped me build our dream home. That raised two beautiful daughters as a firm, but loving and fun father with me. That was soooo responsible and yet, laid back and fun. Who is this man I see now?
I see a man who suddenly looks older than he is. I see a man who is throwing himself into intense 12+ hour work days and is exhausted. I see a man that now turns to me with questions about our finances. I hear a man who doubts his past decisions (that he was sooo sure of) more and more. I see and hear a man who has created a large debt load and is worried about paying this year's taxes. Who sees no end to his exhausting work schedule. Who is confused by seemingly simple things. Who seems to be alternately pushing his family away and trying to pull them close. I see a man who doesn't quite know how to act around the woman he has been married to for 26 years. Sometimes treating me like a burden, sometimes a rival, sometimes a friend, sometimes an advisor, and sometimes like a potential girlfriend on a first date.
Our house will be on the market probably by next week. He is trying to make sure that I am "set up" by letting me keep whatever we get from the sale of it. I think that is to appease his guilt.
For the first time, he asked me, "what are you going to do with your life?" He really does seem to have created this story in his head that he has made me unhappy because I was stuck in a marriage with someone I didn't like. And now he is setting me free because that will make me happy. And that will give him a chance at happiness because I didn't like him and he felt bad about always hurting me. That's his story.
His hurting me was because he realized he could never make me happy because I didn't like him, so he gave up and decided to make himself happy despite how it affected me. Those are his words.
Unfortunately, I was co-dependent and in love with him and ever so oblivious to his inner thoughts. I was happy before he started trying to "make himself happy".
Now I'm working on trying to make myself happy without him. I'm getting there. He just keeps popping up in his various forms while we go through the D. It makes it harder to detach, but not impossible.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Its hard to believe the drastic changes these MLcers make
It makes it easier to understand that it is a real crises
Maybe your H thought you were unhappy with him mine did
I remember my xh looked me in the eye and said you want this D too at that time I didn't I told him ..no I really don't
they make up stories and change history to sit well with their choice to go and paint a cleaner picture to their friends hope you have peaceful weekend
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Thank you PT. I hope you have a peaceful weekend, as well.
At bomb drop, H told me with an angry firmness that we were done and said the cliched, ILYBINILWY. When I got upset he seemed a bit taken aback. Later in our conversation, and in many other "talks", he told me he thought when he said we were done that I would "jump for joy" because that's what I had wanted.
Recently, after our first mediation, I told him I would not be doing something because he had chosen to leave our marriage. He brought up that I left the marriage first. I remember saying "I have never left the marriage and my actions show that if you could ever take the time to look". His only comeback to that? A much quieter, "you left first". Probably not great DBing on my part, but a truth dart.
He really has changed the history in his head. They all seem to.
From what my H has said, he hasn't talked to anyone about his reasons for leaving and filing. Not even his parents. He said no one has asked him, either. They are being "respectful". He has only told a few people that are family or employees that it is happening. Of course, some of those people have told others. I've been pretty open with people I know. But I don't bad mouth him..
Its almost like he is being a martyr in his mind. "I don't really want this, she does. This will make her happier, she just doesn't realize it yet." But if you don't talk about things with someone (besides the person you've left), you can't get out of your own head. He is stuck. I wonder if he will ever get unstuck?
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Hi Ciluzen, I've been reading along and have to tell you that I admire the strength and composure you have... The fact that you and your h even go skiing together is... Wow! I don't know if I respect my h that much anymore to even want to spend time with him.
Thr martyr comment is interesting. I kind of got that, too. The difference is, h told all his new friends that we were completely done before he even told me! One night I overheard a phone convo with one of his female "friends" - he was saying with zero emotion "yeah, my life is going to change pretty drastically in the next few weeks." I mean, he had this script in his mind how things were going to play out and he made damn sure it happened according to plan. And I think it did. He did everything to push me away. Anyway, I don't mean to hijack.... I just find it interesting that the reason for splitting is never concrete and based on something "worth" divorcing over. It's a decision they feel they have to make because it aligns with the story they're writing for themselves.
Me- 30's H- 40's T-10 M-5 I moved out b/c he wanted space- June 15 D filed by H: September 16
"h told all his new friends that we were completely done before he even told me!"
My H did this too - he told mutual friends that our M was over whilst he was telling me he was confused and not sure what he wanted (while carrying on the A.) One of our friends became so concerned I didn't know, she told me....that was pretty awful at the time and I just couldn't believe he would have done that. It's another thing I just accept now...xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
I can't even imagine how that would feel, knowing that others knew first. My H waited a week and only told the couple we owned our vacation home with (his ladyfriend and her husband). He then didn't tell anyone else until he moved out 2 mos later (he says).
And Feyth, most of the time the skiing together is "accidental". I would go ski, and he was looking for me. Weird. Our "day before Easter ski date" was surprising in that he told me I was skiing with he and D23 (he was calling that a "family get together" for Easter). He just neglected to tell me that she dropped out the night before. When those "ski dates" happen, I almost welcome them, although they always start out awkward on my part as I'm not sure which H I am dealing with at first. I usually get to spend the day with the H I used to know, I think because it is a stress free fun environment for him. It keeps me going, in a way. As long as I understand that the old H is just peeping out for a few hours while he is stress free, I don't get my hopes up anymore. Once we're off the hill, I know I will no longer recognize him. Ski season is over in a week or so. Then what?
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Hey, ciluzen, just catching up on your thread. I used to look at my H as a person who I can rely on, who would make the right decision, who would consider all the aspects when making a financial decision, etc… Now, I’m hearing the stories and seeing the patterns of someone who behaves like a teenager. It is not easy to understand, but it is the reality today. At BD time he also told me that his decision to leave the M will befit everyone, as I would be able to find a better partner for myself. He kept repeating it in a few conversations, until I told him that he cannot possibly know and cannot decide what is better for me.
I’m not sure if he told his work buddies and other crowd he was spending time with while away from home about his decision, but he was pretty secretive for quite some time with his family and close friends. Nobody knew what was going on until a few months later. I think he was not sure himself… Until he met that girl, my (mutual) friend’s cousin in Mexico. I think at that time he had this idea in his head that this must be the R he was looking for.
This is so true what the vets tell us here, that MLCers make their exit decision way before they deliver the BD to us. I’m just always curios what is holding them back and when is “that” time when they finally decide to give a speech. I think they intuitively know that they would be making a wrong decision, and it takes them some time to convince themselves that what they are about to do is good for everyone.
I chuckled at “accidental” skiing… It might become a new popular GAL activity… Not! It is great that you can handle this just fine, without getting your hopes up. At the same time… you just never know, and this might this thread of connection you want to keep for now.
M:50 H:52 S28 (my S from previous marriage) M:17 + 3 BD: 06/12 S: 06/12 - H works in another state
Well, ski season is really almost over, lol. Very warm temps for spring break but I might chance the hill midweek. H won't be there due to work, but I will!
I think I just confused him today. Or made him sad or...I don't know. Sunday is now the day we work on the house and for some reason, he kept saying, "guys really look at the garage" over and over as he worked on the garage. He is and always has been a hard worker so he was really cleaning it. We took two trips to the dump with garage stuff and stuff from our shop. We also went to a ranch store to get supplies to fix up the yard and house. First time in forever that we'd been in the same vehicle. Kind of fun. We laughed a bit about the candy selection and bought some...ate about half of it in the car on the way home.
As he continued to clean the garage, I started the barbecue. Believe it or not, I have very little experience actually using the barbecue...H was always in charge of that. I kept asking him how to do things and told him I needed to be able to learn since he wouldn't be around. He was kind of quiet. I offered him dinner a few times and finally sat down to eat. He was just standing there watching me eat as he was saying goodbye. I asked him if he wanted to take some home and he quietly said no. I made him try some so he took a single bite. Agreed it was good (it was fantastic!). Then he kind of drifted off. He looked sad.
I usually make and offer food if he's here past 6. This is the first time he hasn't taken or shared any. He seemed somewhat reserved and quiet most of the day. I have a lot of boxes packed to clean out our house (I've got a "keep" stack and a "sell or donate" stack in our shop. I kept asking him if he wanted certain things, or if he wanted me to set up things for him (he still has no personal email and a lot of his accounts that I am in charge of now are set up online), mentioned that we needed to discuss what to do with certain items. And again reminded him that it would be nice if he removed his growing pile in the room downstairs before we start showing our house. He just looked sad and kept saying "I understand". I think its starting to feel real to him now.
I'm sure to him it looks like I've moved on and am happy. I have know idea what he's thinking.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Lol...where is that dang 'edit' button when you need it?
It sounds like you guys had a pretty good interaction at the store, then reality set in. He had to shift emotions PDQ.
Good luck selling your home. Ours has been on the market for almost a year. This has def added to H"s stress, mostly financial. This move was suppose to for the betterment of all of us. Look how that turned out!!
Me 47 H 49 S18 S15 M 21 BD #1 11/09/15 ILYBNILY I believe we are Piecing 1/2/16 Suspect EA/PA? 2/28/16 BD #2 "He tried, but needs passion." 2/28/16 Confirm PA 3/11/16, he's leaving in June H leaves 5/7/16
Yeah, I'm crossing my fingers on the house sale. Its large, its out in the boonies (almost), and it is unique. Plusses are that its a popular architect's and it is casual (not over the top extravagant) and it has a killer view.
We still have some big projects (meaning things we do-it-yourselfers aren't comfortable doing) to finish. Those should be done by next week, though. I'm still packing things that I won't be using and also throwing his stuff in a downstairs guest room as I come across it. I've stopped asking him to take it out. I am asking him to look through it...it is not my problem to deal with.
Next project is painting over all of the drywall repairs. We still need to clean up our horse corral, too. A lot to do. Sigh.
At the same time, I'm trying to force myself to remember/retrain myself to do algebra and math. Apparently, in order to apply to the Masters Degree program I'm interested in, there are two prereqs I haven't had. They both have prereqs to get into them, as well. One is college algebra...within the last 5 years. Its been over 25 years since I took it, lol. So now I'm doing online tutoring and testing to see what I know and relearn what I've forgotten. Then maybe I can just test into my prereq. Blah.
H is still being strange (to me). He can't figure out how to treat me, nor I him. We act like a married couple in public, but there is only our "comfortable friendship" at the house. Just getting things done and having coffee. I still wonder what our relationship will be when the D is final?
He seems to have created a boundary for himself of not accepting food from me as much (I always offered when making my own). He does bring me little things like k-cups and fruit from his parents when he comes. His AOS. I thank him when he does this, but I need to get better at validating and WOA.
He is still telling me how hard he works, how tired he is, how he worries about money and is getting more comfortable sharing about his work stories. I think that is a step in the right direction...allowing him to feel listened to. To what end? I don't know.
I still know I love him. I'm still attracted to him. But, and I almost feel guilty for this...I'm slightly excited for my unknown future. I've been exploring neighborhoods and looking at houses and apartments. I'm actually enjoying my freebie online classes (warm-ups for going back to school). I'm making new friends, slowly but surely. People that share my interests but are different enough to be very interesting to me.
I went to a comedy club with a meetup I enjoy last night. Its usually all women, but for this event you could bring an extra. All the singles bailed so it was me and two couples...but I had a great time and they were very welcoming! I made plans with one of the women to see a movie that we both were interested in.
I also had a hike and wine and cheese picnic overlooking a local lake with a friend (I'm off for spring break). I met another friend for a fantastic dinner a few nights before. These two ladies, I'm learning, are quickly becoming close to me.
You have to understand, I haven't really found or established my own friendships in years. I had become very reliant on H for all of my friendship needs as well as coming up with our social activities. And those "friendships" proved to be very shallow. I still have anger that not one of those people has really reached out to see how I am. And I was always there for them! I'm trying to let that go. Its hard, though. I especially enjoyed their children.
Anyway, this quick post has become a book. In a nutshell:
I'm excited for my future and a little scared. I'm slowly making friends of my own. I'm learning new things and excited to learn more. I'm learning who I am and what I like to do. I'm going to miss my beautiful house and the quiet life in the country, but I look forward to being closer to everything...it will make my trips out of town that much more special. I realize I have put too much time effort and money into acquiring "stuff" to fill my emptiness. I need to do more and experience more, but lighten my load to do it. I am learning to appreciate and be grateful for what I have got and what I have had. I think my H still cares about me and I still love him, but I don't know what that means to either of us anymore. He ain't done baking and I'm not going to sit around waiting for his timer to "ding". All I can do right now is be his friend when he needs me, but move forward with the door behind me cracked open if he wants to come through and follow. I'm done following him. And if he does at some point come through that door, he'll need to learn to walk beside me, cuz I'm done being his shadow. It really is getting easier as I find the me in me.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
My ex was very extroverted; I'm not shy but more of an introvert. I lean towards nerdy intellectual friends; my ex would whine about spending time with them. I'm more flexible and can enjoy most social situations; he had stronger preferences.
As a result of all those factors and more, our social circle consisted mostly of friendships with "his" people. And after the divorce I eventually moved 30 minutes away. And although it was disappointing that so few of "our" friends reached out to me, the sad truth is, I don't really miss the rest.
I quickly met new friends through the adult rock band class that I started taking after he left. And deepened friendships with existing friends. I was free to go out and do things I liked, like go out to rock shows that my early-rising ex couldn't stay up for. And my current boyfriend always comments on what great people all my friends are.
Cil-- what a great post. You sound fabulous, or at least you're trying to be fabulous. Good for you.
I cannot really give any words of wisdom regarding your H right now, but it seems like you guys are in an ok place-- not a great place, but not a bad place either. I think you should keep doing what you're doing, be a friend, the safe place and let him decide if its a place he wants to be. Cuz it seems like he likes to visit.
Hang in there.
Me 47 H 49 S18 S15 M 21 BD #1 11/09/15 ILYBNILY I believe we are Piecing 1/2/16 Suspect EA/PA? 2/28/16 BD #2 "He tried, but needs passion." 2/28/16 Confirm PA 3/11/16, he's leaving in June H leaves 5/7/16
Hmmm. No expectations. I just got back from dinner with H. Yep. This was unexpected and new. He was low, frustrated, sad...and then asked if I had plans. Said he was hungry and didn't want to eat alone. I'll post more when I've digested this a bit. I paid for my half.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Love your post above, you have really got yourself balanced. I especially love the "he can learn to walk beside me, no longer his shadow" just love it.
Can't wait to hear about dinner.
Me 48 H 46 S 11 M 2004 BD 8/13 H moved out 2/15 -live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
Hope you're doing well, Cil! When you are ready, please do share your dinner experience with h. Also, it looks like you are over 100- new thread time! (Just trying to help Job out )
Me- 30's H- 40's T-10 M-5 I moved out b/c he wanted space- June 15 D filed by H: September 16
