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Originally Posted By: GoodDad
Thoughts on her getting closure or telling the guy its done and if I should be in on that call or all 4 people in on the call?

I see there being another conversation at some point. Can I ask my wife if there has been that talk?

She told me today for the first time ever that she is so sorry for Fn up our lives. She said she feels sick about all the problems she has caused.


You're considering reconciliation with this woman. In that respect, you have a right to know her status. If she has any contact whatsoever with an OM then there is zero point to going forward from there. In that case you continue to 180, detach, etc. I was like you, I finally had enough and filed. I wasn't as smart as you, however. I took over 2 years to get there. I swear that shaved 20 years off my life. It was emotional hell. You're getting that faster which is healthier for you. I know you love her and want her but you don't need her. Yes, it's not breaking any rules to know the situation of a person you're considering reconciling with. In a real and honest relationship there are no secrets. If you and she start to R and she's having any contact with OM then that's a secret and R is doomed to failure and you wasted a lot of time that you could have spent getting on with your life.



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Here is a good description of DBing detachment.

Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)

I. Detachment

Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.

When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.

When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.

On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’

It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.

We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).

We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)


PART II Detachment (found around here)

Detachment is the:

* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.

* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.

* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.

* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.

* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.

* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.

* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.

* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.

* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).

* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.

* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to not bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
_________________________


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Hi GD,

I'll break it down to you.

Its pretty simple in my eyes.

Dont be her shoulder about her problems with OM or what she did with OMW. Its not your call. She has to solve it on her own. As Sandi says, she has to put her big girl panties on.

Decide if you want to make it work and if you do then listen and apply the DB techniques so that you iron out those flaws you have for your new R with your W or someone else if you decide to move on.

If you decide to move forward with your W then be the lighthouse for her. She will have a storm in her head, act irrationally, some days go forward, some days go back. Some days act lovingly and others you want to toss her out a window. You however have to be CCC and be stable and not act on her impulses. If she starts screaming and so do you it gets you nowhere. If you reply calmly you may advance.

As for the rest be upbeat and positive, take care of your kids and yourself and do things to take your mind off this.

Whatever reason she gave for the A is an excuse. And I am sorry but if after 12 years of marriage and 3 kids she crossed the line because of a lousy 6 months following your moms death then she does have her work cut out. Truth is though it does not matter, sometimes they cant even put the finger on it exactly. The reality anyway is that she chose to jump into someone else's bed and you did not.
She made a choice and has to solve it. Why it happened is also what she has to work on as she had many other options to choose from. At least to make sure she doesn't go via that route again if she is unhappy.

To be honest, no one here is really a smart a$$ or we all are. Depends how you look at it. Why come to a website and take advice from a bunch of people who messed up their R? Probably because they understand better than anyone the feelings and situation of everyone who ends up here. They have something more to offer than cheap advice. Read the DB book and see how much contradicts the mindset we have. Many of us here are looking for help and trying to help at the same time which is commendable. Offer the experiences we have to see if it can in some way affect positively some one else.

In my view, the only real smarta$$ I have found here are the ones that think they have everything under control. This does not apply to them. Do B when everyone says A and blame everyone else for everything. Which then brings about the question, why come here?

As for me, I am telling you what I did and how it got me success and still seems to be working. If it were not for DB and sharing my problems asking for advice I would probably be separated at this stage. I have no guarantees what the end will be but I am content with how they are going and strive to keep going in that direction.

As the person I am, I like to share my successes and failures so that it may help someone else. It obviously does not mean what I do or dont do will get you any success but if you look at the generic attitude and actions employed here in specific moments you will see they result in similar results.

Sometimes the comments we make on personal situations is like fine tunning an action or thought.

To put it another way, following the guidelines here achieves success on different scales depending on the relationship itself and how you apply it.

Anyway keep it up and remember you will patience, lots of it. Your situation will run easily into the latter part of this year before things seems "normal".

Peace

Max


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S: 25

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Difficult question.

Depends if you want to snoop or verify.

If you snoop then you are not detaching. If you are verifying she can find other ways to contact OM so your verification is unreliable.

In short, I would say not care about it.

One thing I have found out about women is that you know when you are not the man in their heart. Forget about what she is doing behind your back and focus on what she is doing infront of you.

FYI I judge my R on the interactions with my W. if I am happy with the way it is going and what I am feeling. If she shows me no love or I am not happy, does it matter if there is OM?

If she shows me love and is kind and loving... there may be OM but I would likely guess there is not.

At the end of the day time puts everyone in their place.

Peace

Max


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Quote:
But what does be my best mean around her? Do I do nice things for her I would normally do. I stopped doing those things recently when she moved to the basement.


If I said not to focus on trying to be a super husband and just be the best man you can be, would that shed a different light on things?

It is a little difficult to give you the ABC's of everything you want to know....just yet, b/c you don't know the status of the M, yet. What I mean is if she really does end things with OM, she's going to be hit with addiction withdrawals....big time. This is a period that is very hard for the WW, and very frustrating for the LBH. The temptation for her to contact the OM will be almost overwhelming. That is why there needs to be a transparency plan.

If she tells you that she is ready to do what is necessary to save the M, then you need to explain that she has to agree to be transparent in her activities (such as phone, emails, etc.). You should be able to look at these without notice/warning whenever you decide you want to check it out. This is not only her way to earn back your trust again, but to help her to stay on the straight & narrow road back to recovery. Nothing should be private between a man and wife. If she starts in about needing her privacy, then she's not ready to do the work. The only reason for privacy is when there is something to hide.

So, if she agrees to transparency, then you are ready to give her all the support she needs. And, she will need encouragement and support. I have not seen any WW who wants to suddenly be smothered by her H's presence, but neither should he go away and forsake her if she's trying to work through withdrawals.

Quote:
What if she asks to come back in our bed?


If she asks if the two of you can sleep together in the same bed, my recommendation is that you agree.....so long as you are satisfied she's doing what she claims. I don't mean you hold it over her head, I just mean you shouldn't let her back into your bed unless you feel she is truly trying to do the right thing. Most WW's are not emotionally ready to transfer from the OM to the H overnight, so you will probably want to wait and see if she initiates sex. And if she doesn't, don't make it mean more than it does. It's an adjustment. I am a lot more suspicious of a woman who immediately jumps on the H to prove to him that she's ready to be his wife, than a woman who needs to take time to get her sh't together and get over the OM before making love to her H.

Most times, the H is thinking or wondering if she'll ask to do this or that, when it's usually the last thing on her mind right then. The difference in the mindsets, I suppose.

Quote:
I don't want to screw this up and push her away.


I suppose that must be a common fear of the LBH. Let me give some examples of what would push a WW away:

1. Trying too hard to be a super-husband.
2. Trying to act like the perfect couple/family.
3. Being overly attentive.
4. Not letting her clean up her own mess.
5. Self-pity.
6. Being overly affectionate.
7. Pushing for sex, to prove her love.
8. Being too needy.
9. Putting emotional pressure on her.
10. Guilting her about the affair/OM.
11. Unforgiveness.
12. Self-righteousness/judgemental attitude
13. Asking too many questions every day, trying to find out if she's contacting the OM.
14. Expecting her to feel a certain way too much too quickly.
15. Revenge tactics.
16. Over protecting her and not allowing her to face natural consequences of her actions.
17. Overkill with compliments.
18. Not giving her money (like before the A).
19. Acting as if everything is already fixed.
20. Making her feel as if your eyes are on her constantly.

Now those are things that just popped into my mind without much forethought, so I probably left something big off the list. But do you see a common theme in the things I listed?

Things she will need to see in you (in no particular order):

1. Strength
2. Calmness
3. Confidence
4. Balance
5. Decisiveness
6. Encouragement
7. Responsibility
8. Willingness
9. Forgiveness
10. Patience


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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great post sandi


M 37
W 34

T 12
M 8
D 7
S 4

Need break 4/12/15
W no ring 7/7/15

Separate room 4/12/15
Separate living suggested 8/15
W moved out 11/1/15
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Maximus~~I love that answer "forget what she is doing being your back." But can you clarify how, exactly? It sure ain't easy.

In my sitch, I am not even 100% certain of EA or PA, but it sure seems like it when he covets his phone like he is in the CIA--it even goes to the bathroom with him. I am not sure how to get "the behind closed doors" visions out of my head.

Sorry to hijack your thread GD, hopefully this will help us both


Me 47 H 49 S18 S15
M 21
BD #1 11/09/15 ILYBNILY
I believe we are Piecing 1/2/16
Suspect EA/PA? 2/28/16
BD #2 "He tried, but needs passion." 2/28/16
Confirm PA 3/11/16, he's leaving in June
H leaves 5/7/16
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Quote:
Thoughts on her getting closure or telling the guy its done and if I should be in on that call or all 4 people in on the call?


No such thing as her getting closure by seeing him one last time, or talking to him over the phone. Now if she wants to write him a no contact letter, that's fine. She needs to tell him not to contact her ever again under any circumstances. Otherwise, the only way to end an A is stop it dead in its tracks. There is no tapering off, etc.

I think you and the OM's W could certainly be there to listen to the conversation. I don't know that it would be wise for all four to join in on the conversation, but that's just MHO. I think the letter is better, b/c if she hears his voice, she'll probably become emotional.....and that could lead him to believe she was being forced to call him. I do believe if she writes a letter, that you should see it, and then you should be the one to mail it. She's too vulnerable at the moment to be able to trust.

Quote:
I see there being another conversation at some point. Can I ask my wife if there has been that talk?


Maybe by now you have read what I said about the transparency. If she has not agreed to being transparent, I don't think she's going to be truthful if you ask her if they've made contact. But, sure you can ask.

Quote:
She told me today for the first time ever that she is so sorry for Fn up our lives. She said she feels sick about all the problems she has caused.


Actually, that's an excellent start. Right now, she's upset about him and generally everything. Hopefully, it will lead to remorse.
And hopefully, that will get her through the withdrawals.

I think you should consider an excellent therapist or MC to help guide you back. Piecing is really hard and without some type of program or counseling....many couples don't make it. Maybe I am the one rushing things, now. Just put it under your cap for later.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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TxHubby. Can you describe the 2 years before you filed? You mention it a lot, but what was going on? What whas she telling you? Was SHE threatening to leave or was the cake eating? Thanks!


H:54 W:46 D:11 D:21
M:12 BD:1/15
In-house Separation 2/15
DB started 7/15, W sees consistency 9/15
Dropping the rope and having her leave 2/16, moves 5/16
Reconciliation 1/17
Obviously still struggling
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Originally Posted By: Flight
TxHubby. Can you describe the 2 years before you filed? You mention it a lot, but what was going on? What whas she telling you? Was SHE threatening to leave or was the cake eating? Thanks!


After the horrific event of 3/17/13 I was full of rage and told her she should leave. She did. She took a small apartment a couple miles from the house. We were basically separated (not officially) for the next slightly less than 2 years. Supposedly she was devastated when she got busted but even though her AP fled the state, I came to learn later that she was using OK Cupid and meeting other men. All the while telling me she was so sorry and wanted to R. Like a sap I did everything wrong for that period. All the stuff here we tell people not to do. Violated all of Sandi's rules.

I also numbed my pain through alcohol and prescription pain killers. The VA was happy to supply all those I wanted because of a service related injury that turned into lifelong chronic pain. In that time I neglected everything. My job, my daughter, myself. I was falling apart. I begged my wife to come home and work on the marriage. She said we need time apart to work on ourselves individually. Of course that meant she wasn't done meeting up with other men. We still shared a Verizon account, I saw her activity.

I wished most nights that I wouldn't wake up the next morning. She was the love of my life. My first love. I was her first love. We adored each other. At that time I barely recognized her. She acted nothing like the wonderful wife and mother that I would have taken a bullet for without the slightest hesitation. I was no longer enough though. She wanted other things. All the while keeping me as plan B. Telling me she couldn't imagine growing old without me and that we'll work on ourselves and be together again. Of course a little snooping on my part revealed that was all BS and she was sleeping with several OM. Some I probably still don't know about.

We continued doing this dance until I just had enough. That was a little over a year after B-day. Maybe it was God giving me the blessing in my heart and mind of finally truly detaching. I did a 180 before I knew what it was. I stopped checking in with her. I stopped checking up on her. I stopped caring. I truly stopped caring. Go be with whomever you want, I'm done. I can't live like this. She would call me crying about whatever (she was still in HUGE MLC mode) and I'd tell her I can't help you with that anymore. You have to figure your sh*t out.

I contacted a lawyer and filed for divorce. She got served when she was having friends over at the apartment. Her new toxic buddies and probably some creepy men. I heard some details about it. She freaked out. Told them all to get out and cried the rest of the night.

I guess she had figured I'd wait until she got this out of her system and we'd continue our marriage at that point. Nope, not me. I had enough. I no longer wanted to be married to her. She became the kind of woman that I would never associate with. You have to know the kind of guy I am. I'm a Disney Channel kind of guy, not a Cinemax guy. KWIM? I would never ever associate with a promiscuous woman. That's gross. I like nice girls. Always have.

Anyway, that did the trick. She snapped out of it. She stopped lying, started going to therapy. Got a hold of me at work and said to please give her a chance, that she was "better" now and would prove it to me. I said no, please leave us alone (our daughter also wanted nothing to do with her).

She wouldn't quit. I myself was moving on. I was seeing someone casually. I was moving on in every way you can. I was feeling better too so I really had no incentive to talk about getting back together with the woman who crushed my soul. My pick me dance was over. I told her I was no longer available to be picked. Still, when I was alone with my thoughts, she dominated them. Why? Because I love her and always will. It almost feels like a curse sometimes but I truly believe that the man upstairs planned on us being paired for this life and whatever's next.

Slowly but surely I came around, we worked on dealing with everything that had happened. I recovered all her deleted emails from her gmail account and did a lot of reading. It was excruciatingly painful but I needed to read it. I insisted. Although it was painful, it was eye-opening. There were so many emotions and feelings she had that I was unaware of. The whole family was unaware because she was a good woman and didn't want to burden us with her insecurities and regrets about certain parts of her life. I learned she questioned if she didn't jump into marriage too young and if she ever really loved me like she should. She questioned being a mother, if it was something that just happened but that she wasn't sure if she really wanted to be a mother. She wasn't happy in her chosen career. She wasn't happy where we lived. Most of all she wasn't happy that she didn't take more control of her life so I guess that's what she was doing by acting like a teenager again, drinking, partying, having casual relationships with creepy dudes. A lot of whom were married.

She was also diagnosed with severe depression. She got treated for all this.

Anyway, here we are. I don't ever bring up that period in our lives. I decided that everyone deserves a second chance, no one deserves a third. If you forgive a remorseful spouse then you can never bring it up again unless they do. Do you, as a betrayed spouse, have to eat some serious sh*t sandwiches? Oh yeah, you betcha.

Still, 3 years later and I do feel blessed. We both know that we'll be together for the rest of our lives. Although I know that anyone can cheat on anyone else I don't spend a second thinking about that. I could get killed in a car accident every time I leave the house. I don't spend a second worrying about that either. Living in fear is no way to live.

So here we are. I love her, she loves me, and we work on us every day. 2 years of agony. I still feel depleted, like it killed part of my soul but I'm recovering. Talking to people here helps. She encourages me to do it and she also reads all your stories. Some of them have made her cry because she sees herself and her past cruelty in some WW's she reads about here. Today the fog is gone, she's back in this world with me, and she literally can't believe how she acted when she went through that period in her life.



The future is as bright as you demand it be.
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