KGirl - new life, new stuff

[Mozza]

Oh, it's hard to read about such pain. I'm sorry KGirl you're hurting... I can feel it through the screen. Grieve all you need. I remember two months after BD, I asked my IC why I was still in such pain and he raised his eyebrows "It's only been two months". Just today, as I feel over my WW for months, I had a teary moment as I replayed part of our breakup in my head. So after a couple of weeks, you're really not at the stage where this has been going on for too long. What matters is your trajectory: are you doing things to get better and, if so, is it working, little by little? I do get the sense that you need to do a little more and remember: do things that you love. Don't do stuff you feel you have to do, give yourself permission for some things. Call your favorite friends, cook something amazing, visit your favorite park.

About getting out of bed: do you have something you look forward to? It's a tip for everyday life, but it's even more important when you feel down.

About sex: it's perfectly ok to decide you don't want to sleep with many men, but it's not ok to think that you're giving away a part of yourself when you do. You don't. I'm not sure where this idea comes from, but it would be interesting to explore. Sex can also enhance your life, even after the partner is gone, as you've discovered things about it and yourself, as you come better equipped into the next relationship (I refer to expectations more than techniques). If you keep thinking that you "lose" every time you have a new partner, you'll have difficulties entering healthy relationships and you'll cling to sexual partners if only for fear of having another. Perhaps you could read about positive sex online, as part of your post-breakup.

Oh and you can have a much higher bar for yourself than "He should stay with me because he's never had a real-life relationship before"! Don't you dare thinking that you pick up the scraps! In fact, it makes me fear that you picked him in part because you thought he would be a "safe" choice who wouldn't leave you given his history. Well, lesson learned. Now aim for the stars!

You've gotten over a much harder breakup before, you'll get over this one. Just be patient with yourself.

[KGirl]

Thanks, all.

Yes, I see a pattern of being interested in emotionally unavailable/avoidant people. Whether that's because I'M avoidant, I don't know.. or something else. As you said Mozza, I think I see these people as a "safe" choice because they don't know much else and I feel like they'd be grateful to have me, so surely they wouldn't leave. When I met XBF he was definitely going through a lot of "transitions to adulthood" - just finished school, was unemployed and still looking for a full-time job, a month after we met he moved into his own apartment after having a roommate for 5 years. I think that was appealing - that I could "help" him. But he seemed to mostly have it together so he wasn't annoying or needy. In fact, I would offer to help him with stuff and he would usually refuse. I did get scared by a lot of the guys online who seemed out of my league or like I "couldn't keep up" with them - the well-traveled, witty, worldly sorts. The slightly nerdy awkward ones (XBF) seemed less scary. On our third time hanging out we talked a little about past relationships and that's when XBF revealed his long-distance relationship history and I remember thinking "whew! he's not more experienced than me in this area. I can handle this." I felt like I was doing the right things - going slowly, etc. but maybe in not revealing all of my vulnerable-ness and not being as trusting or open right away, I kept something going that would have ended much earlier had I opened my true self to him right away (and scared him away! ha).

I have an appt w/ a new IC on March 10 so hopefully I can hold out until then to analyze this more. I could have gotten in earlier w/ my previous IC but I don't know that that would be helpful any more. I felt like our conversations always ended in him saying "what you wanted and how you reacted seems perfectly reasonable to me." Maybe so for "normal" relationships but not for these emotionally unavailable people.

As for my trajectory? Not sure. I think the first week or so I was still in denial- convinced he would call any day, regret his decision, etc. So it took a bit to really acknowledge it was happening and start to accept he wasn't coming back.

A plan I think I could follow because it's logical - identify what I'm missing about XBF - not just traits or preferences, but how did it make me feel? and then second, how can I get those feelings that I'm missing through other means? For example, I miss being able to suggest places for dinner or outings w/out worrying if someone would agree or not, because I felt comfortable with him. I could do the same w/ friends and if they really don't want to go, go by myself so I can still do those things.

Mozza - yep, totally see what you're saying about clinging to people for fear of avoiding more sexual partners. This is the exact thing I'm afraid to encounter. Once I get to that point I am IN and have a hard time letting go until I feel like we've really tried everything possible to make it work. It's not as if I grew up religious or particularly conservative. But, in high school I had the idea that I was going to wait until marriage to have sex... then XH and I ended up doing so after a year but with the idea that we were "bound to stay together so it was OK." And I guess that's part of what kept our on again, off again thing going for the next 10+ years. I guess I feel really vulnerable when I get to that point and get really attached and invest a lot of emotion in it, so the more it happens, the more I feel like it's not meaningful anymore, which makes me sad? *shrug* it's not that I don't enjoy it and have fun, I just want it to be under specific circumstances, in a meaningful committed relationship that has the potential to be long term which seems like an impossible thing to ask for in today's culture. Perhaps another IC topic. Both my sisters are in long term relationships with their high school sweethearts. All my close friends only had 3-4 partners before getting married. It's all that I really know.

[KGirl]

For those of you who had WAHs/WAWs that up and left or moved out:
How did you cope with missing them? Like knowing you wouldn't be going out to dinner or dates anymore, or just texting/talking on the phone without it being just about logistics, or not seeing them daily? I did not have feelings like this with XH and this constant desire to see/text/talk to/look up XBF is killing me right now, despite all of my rational knowledge of why he may not have been what I needed. With XH we lived together for 6 months after BD and by that time I was so stressed and exhausted that I was HAPPY to not see him anymore. Not so with XBF - he just ghosted out of my life. How do you deal with that part of it?

[Mozza]

I do have some experience with that and by "experience", I mean painful memories...

I can't reinvent the wheel: the short-term solution is GAL. You need to keep busy to get your mind off of him. With time on your hand, alone at home, you have nothing to do but stare at the missing piece in your life. If you're window-shopping, jogging, dining out, watching a movie at a theater, you won't have the idle thumbs that beg to text.

Now here's something that didn't become clear to me until several months after BD: you can do things you enjoy. At first, I just tried to keep busy but I can't say that my heart was in it. Then I realized that I needed to do things I wanted to do. So I'd either pick my favorite things or stuff I hadn't given myself permission before. All of a sudden, I wanted to GAL and it became much easier.

How about you give us a short list of 5 things you'd like to do as GAL? Not things that are obvious or within your reach, but really things that you WANT to do. Take a few minutes (or days) to dig deep inside of you. Make sure that you're enthusiastic about all five.

I did get scared by a lot of the guys online who seemed out of my league or like I "couldn't keep up" with them - the well-traveled, witty, worldly sorts.

MAJOR ALERT! But you knew we'd pick up on this These guys ARE the ones you need to go after. You have to seek that feeling of "OMG, this is too good to be true! Why is he interested in me?! He's amazing!" You may not "keep up" (?) with a few at first, but who cares: it's just a few email exchanges or at worst a couple of dates. Isn't that worth it to finally catch the Grand Prize?

I can't stress this enough: go for it, chase your dreams, seek the too-good-for-me stuff. You've tried to settle for safe and look where it got you. Did it work in giving you the stable relationship you're craving? There is no safe solution in love. The best you can do is to reach for the stars until you meet someone who loves you just as much, not because they have no alternative, but because they want YOU. Not only these guys are out there, but right this minute, they doubt you even exist, as much as you doubt their existence.

My history is similar to yours. WW was my third girlfriend and sexual partner. I had signed a lease with all the women I had sex with... I hope I know where you're coming from. In my particular case, it lead me to think that I couldn't find my perfect match, that WW was an oddity and that, while she must have made a mistake in choosing me, I should enjoy it. As you can imagine, when she left me, I was devastated not only because I lost her, but because I lost someone at all. It was not an easy path for me to find someone else. I had no confidence with women. Also, she left with some of my self-worth because I thought that being with her gave me some social standing, some worth in the eyes of people and also mine.

In my case, my therapy was the flirting experiment, as you may recall. I read books and got myself out there. It gradually led to dating. And about a month ago, I met someone with whom I'd like to commit. My relationship with women in general has changed a lot and I've elevated my standards, with regards to meeting my expectations. It meant rejecting women that were not meeting my criteria, which was really not easy, but super-affirming for me. I handled rejection much better too.

This may not be the path you need to take, but I suspect it's the destination you need to go to: a place where you are choosy and willing to do what it takes to find the right person.

I guess I feel really vulnerable when I get to that point and get really attached and invest a lot of emotion in it, so the more it happens, the more I feel like it's not meaningful anymore, which makes me sad? *shrug* it's not that I don't enjoy it and have fun, I just want it to be under specific circumstances, in a meaningful committed relationship that has the potential to be long term which seems like an impossible thing to ask for in today's culture.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to limit the number of partners that you have. I'm less convinced about the impact it has on any given committed relationship that you might have.

Th desire and connection I had with WW through sex was amazing. We'd do it for hours, hold each other thight, look into each other's eyes, confess our feelings, etc. It's not the low number of partners that made sex special, almost sacred: it was the bond that we had. It had to be exclusive at that moment, but it didn't matter what we lived before. I wanted her to know that I was all there, in that moment, with her. And that she was with me.

So you can be a serial monogamist: no need to rush to bed, no casual sex, no dating multiple people. But make each relationship special knowing that what makes it special is what you invest. And the love you invest with whoever you choose is not lost. Your tank will be full if you need to find someone else.

[SunnyB]

I did get scared by a lot of the guys online who seemed out of my league or like I "couldn't keep up" with them - the well-traveled, witty, worldly sorts. The slightly nerdy awkward ones (XBF) seemed less scary.

KGirls, I've expressed a couple times here that I was intimidated by a potential date. I've been out with a guy who makes a very nice living filming EDM concerts all over the globe, a Pulitzer-prize winning journalist, and a career Marine officer whose name pops up on Google pretty readily. I was intimated by all of them, but I found out they are just people. They may have had different experiences than you and I, but as the journalist pointed out, that's part of the appeal. Who wants to date himself?

[KGirl]

Thanks Sunny and Mozza for checking in. XBF definitely didn't seem intimidating in a social/education/etc. sort of way, but I did feel like he was more attractive and often wondered why'd say I was beautiful, sexy, etc. It's hard now not to think "I knew it was too good to be true, he didn't really mean it!" Sigh. I'm finally reading Mindset by Carol Dweck and I know that is very fixed mindset of me. I need to work on my growth mindset in terms of my own capabilities and self-esteem. But I fear in relationships and how I see significant others, my growth mindset is TOO big, to a fault - in a growth mindset you believe that people can change and interactions, personality, etc. are not fixed. Fixed mindset people tend to say things in relationships like "well this is just the way they are and people don't change, guess we'll call it quits." I think I get too caught up in the potential or idea that if we can communicate and problem solve, it will work, and believe that people can drastically change (or will want to) when they cannot or will not.

I'll ponder the 5 GAL things. It does feel like just going through the motions right now when I do stuff.. it all has this undercurrent of "but XBF is gone, I won't be able to share this with him later, what's the point." Right now all I feel like doing is 1) sleeping, 2) turning my heat up to 70 degrees and cuddling under all my blankets, 3) withdrawing from people, 4) watching mindless TV so I don't have to think about anything. I'm trying not to get stuck in those things, though. Going to a friend's for dinner, been bugging another friend about going to see Pride + Prejudice + Zombies.

Still wondering what I can learn from this and how to improve myself. Be more patient with people and give them space for a relationship to build? To what point? I really have no idea. I guess I just have to hope that there is someone out there that will be on the same pace I am and be "all in" like I am with them.

[Mozza]

Still wondering what I can learn from this and how to improve myself.

I didn't see this last paragraph coming. Your previous two paragraphs are all about what you can learn from this experience. You talk about improving your self-esteem and that's a big one. It will make a world of difference in your life when you realize who you are and what you're worth. This is how you'll choose better people but also how you'll be better equipped to deal with the difficulties. I hope you won't be on the lookout only for people who don't quit. While it's certainly a quality, it's just one of many and you should keep your own options open, including that of leaving when all else fails, especially in a recent relationship. You shouldn't find yourself, again, thinking "Well, this one's a catch because he won't leave me". He should be a catch because he's funny, sexy, patient and whatnot AND he chose you despite having a thousand options.

I look forward to hearing about your 5 exciting GAL. Your lack of GAL right now is directly related to your lack of motivation for GAL. It's like exercise: when you don't do any, it seems very hard. When you grow the habit, it's easy. The hardest step to take is the first.

I read this line recently: The best time to work on your marriage is when you're single. Something to ponder.

[KGirl]

Maybe this feels harder because there's no hope like there was when I was "DBing" : /

Re: learn from the experience. I get caught up in these terrible awful thoughts and feelings where I feel like the biggest failure ever and I don't know what to do with them because I don't feel like I have the information to figure out a response or an answer. It's very reminiscent of times w/ XH where I don't feel like I really understood what happened, don't know why they left me, wish I knew the reasons (lack of closure?) I wonder:
-what the he** is wrong with me that people don't see value in communicating with me when they're unhappy and think it's best to just leave? I have a master's degree in social work, and do counseling for a living, it's not like I refuse to talk through stuff with people - quite the opposite.
-why am I so suffocating to people?
-do I intentionally create drama and sabotage good things?
-am I way over-expecting things of people? why?
-how can I tell if people are going to crap like this on me when they seem good at first? I mean, I have a text from XBF from a day I was stressing about what we were gonna do after work (from a month or so in) that says "Don't worry, K, we always figure it out together. even if there were zombies." How can you trust people when they go back on what they've said?

I honestly can't make sense of it right now. My friends say that I didn't do anything, he just couldn't handle an adult relationship and what it takes to be in one, but they only know my side of the story, so they can't really know. He said I made him feel guilty and pressured - but why? They say I need to be able to put myself out there and be vulnerable if I want to find someone who can give that back but how do you do that when people keep hurting you?

[JellyB]

KGirl, I have been reading you posts and the dialogue you have been having with Mozza, with much interest. It's like you have read my mind regarding you recent BF. I am dealing with a similar sitch with a guy I have been seeing on and off. He is someone I could let myself fall for, if I didn't keep things emotionally in check for myself.

I have been experiencing very similar things with dating, with my esteem and self worth and who I am attracted and who and how I would like to be in a relationship with.

You are asking lots of the same questions I have been asking to myself and on this board. I too am a social worker, and frankly I don't get it either. I often think of the adage those who can't do, teach! (please do think I am mean you!)

Anyway KGirl, thanks for posting, it is nice to see someone dealing with similar issues to me. I will read you posts with interest.

Much love to you on this part of your journey.


JellyBxxx

[Mozza]

You seem to take an awful lot of responsibility for what other people do. If I read you correctly, you think that a grown man who never had a real life relationship left you after six months because of your behavior. I'd say it was very likely to happen and I doubt that he will be able to hold on to his next few relationships. It's not what you want to hear, and I'm sure you had good moments with him, but it seems to me like you dodged a bullet. Having him return doesn't sound like a good scenario for you, not for your next 50 years. Anyone should have higher standards for a relationship than someone who never says I love you in six months and is bothered to even share what he does. You were not asking for too much and, even if you were, you should find someone who's willing to share as much as you will. Set your sights on this.

The larger issue remains this impression that you can control your relationships if you just act right. You don't. People have free will, they have issues, baggage, desires, wants. And it changes all the time, sometimes during a subway ride, sometimes at the top of the Kilimanjaro, sometimes while we sleep.

It seems to me that you have a great opportunity to work on yourself, maybe better than at BD. I'd venture to say that the pain you feel right now is mostly due to your personal issues, more than the loss of a particular relationship. This idea that it's all your fault, it needs to go. This idea that things can be guaranteed for life, it needs to go. This idea that making love with someone is giving away a part of you, it needs to go. This idea that you're looking for a needy partner, it needs to go.

There are far needier people than you out there who are in committed relationship. And many independent people beyond your imagination (separate houses! separate holidays! open relationships!) also. Your basic problem seems to be self-acceptance. Once you're comfortable with who you are, you can look for someone who matches, rather than going after a generic profile of a needy person that is unlikely to leave you for lack of options or courage.

Have you read Codependent no more? I haven't but it seems often referred to around here and maybe it would be relevant to your current situation. Don't waste this crisis.