New night(s)

[trumpet]

Kyrie,

If the cards didn't get dealt in the way they were, I might still be using porn. It was a crutch for me; I used it as a stress reliever, a way to combat the sexless marriage, a way to feel good about myself (which it did - for a few minutes, and then the shame would kick in), escape the world.

If my wife and I had more sex, I was apt to use the porn less. But would I have stopped? Unlikely. It took my world turned upside down to stop. Similar to what a wayward might need to stop their addiction to OM/OW.

If he's spiraling with porn, and has dabbled in other depression-inducing behaviors, he's just going deeper into his hole. I don't think having sex with him will do anything - I actually think stopping all affection might be a better response. You separating is probably what would take him to snap out of it. But separating would/should be for you. From your posts, you probably have a good deal to work on yourself.

Matthew 18:21-35. Parable of the unmerciful servant.

I have come to learn that I am the unmerciful servant. True forgiveness of my wife will mean dropping all my bags, and having no expectations or atonements from her. That her debt to me is 'paid in full', just like Jesus paid my debt.
This hit me like a 2 X 4 today. It put me in my place. And I have a new focus on the marriage.

It means I have work to do on myself. Before I can say ANYTHING about my wife to her. She has her own planks in her eyes, but I have them as well. I need to lead by example.

In your case, God might be tasking you with helping your husband. But not by enabling him. By getting him to a spot where he has just one person to call - God. He's really leaning on you - he's looking for absolution from you, but you're not the one to give it. He has to look much deeper, past his current state, past his transgressions.

How are you preparing yourself for when he hits rock bottom?

[Vanilla]

Kyrie,

Yes of course these are important to you, I do think they are of minor importance in your R at this time.

Learning about addiction and the behaviour of addicts will help you a great deal more.

Addiction is the primary influence on your WH in my view.

V

[kyrie]

Kyrie,

If the cards didn't get dealt in the way they were, I might still be using porn. It was a crutch for me; I used it as a stress reliever, a way to combat the sexless marriage, a way to feel good about myself (which it did - for a few minutes, and then the shame would kick in), escape the world.

If my wife and I had more sex, I was apt to use the porn less. But would I have stopped? Unlikely. It took my world turned upside down to stop. Similar to what a wayward might need to stop their addiction to OM/OW.

If he's spiraling with porn, and has dabbled in other depression-inducing behaviors, he's just going deeper into his hole. I don't think having sex with him will do anything - I actually think stopping all affection might be a better response. You separating is probably what would take him to snap out of it. But separating would/should be for you. From your posts, you probably have a good deal to work on yourself.

Matthew 18:21-35. Parable of the unmerciful servant.

I have come to learn that I am the unmerciful servant. True forgiveness of my wife will mean dropping all my bags, and having no expectations or atonements from her. That her debt to me is 'paid in full', just like Jesus paid my debt.
This hit me like a 2 X 4 today. It put me in my place. And I have a new focus on the marriage.

It means I have work to do on myself. Before I can say ANYTHING about my wife to her. She has her own planks in her eyes, but I have them as well. I need to lead by example.

In your case, God might be tasking you with helping your husband. But not by enabling him. By getting him to a spot where he has just one person to call - God. He's really leaning on you - he's looking for absolution from you, but you're not the one to give it. He has to look much deeper, past his current state, past his transgressions.

How are you preparing yourself for when he hits rock bottom?

Hi Trumpet, been trying to keep up with everyone, esp. you. I know you're hurting - but love hearing your thoughts & where you are.
I read a bit about the idea of covenant vs. consumer marriage. It also lead to thinking about why Jesus Christ allows for only adultery for divorce. Perhaps it has a purpose (LRT?) and when is it appropriate.
This weekend my H pushed hard about who I talked to about our sitch (other men/other counselors) and not him. He wanted to see my email and see this site. I said no. Which of course pissed him off but he backed off that, and pushed for what kind of advise I was given. I was vague. He spewed a bit and said I was doing everything wrong anyway and pushed again - are you taking their advise? I just said no (thinking about those who say to divorce) and walked away. He followed so I turned and asked, "Why is it that Jesus Christ says adultery is the only thing for which divorce is permissible?" He was thrown off a bit, stumbled around trying to answer that 1. to protect the innocent party of disease and 2. something about society and that there was more but that was off the top of his head. Not much of an answer.
So next day he asks, why did you ask about that? I said I wasn't comfortable discussing it, so he tried to manipulate it that I wasn't communicating, wasn't working on things, blah blah blah. I repeated, I am not comfortable in discussing it. Needless to say it is something I am pondering. He pivoted to other stuff/spew.
I keep thinking about it. ... when covenants are broken, God cut off the offender (Israel, who also represents the Church, and in the Christian faith, wives also reflect/represent the Church in relation to Christ).
He cut off Israel in order to let her hit rock bottom but also to wake her out of sleep/ignorance so He could call to her again.
I'm wondering if that model is appropriate here. But I could be wrong.


Trumpet, we are ALL unmerciful servants. We forget we're even servants.

H preached on Sunday - in part on 1 Corinthians 13 (the so-called "love" chapter). He asked me last night if I thought he was a hypocrite for his sermon. I said, "it's not my place to say"...paused, and added, "I can remember when you've said that you write your sermons first to preach to yourself". He reacted and said once again that I always know the worst possible thing to say. That's me.

Trumpet, what do you mean about preparing myself for his rock bottom?

[kyrie]

Busy here lately.

[trumpet]

You said the right thing to him.

Rock bottom will be when he realizes his words and actions have dug a hole so deep no one can lift him out. Then, he'll try to climb out himself, only to stumble back in.

I'm not in your sitch, Kyrie, and I don't know you as a physical person. All I know is that my addiction made me angry, withdrawn, shameful, and constantly thinking of things (porn) that I shouldn't have been. Women were more objects to me, or at least my brain thought that way many days.

I'm in a different place now. How I interact with people. A few at my old work noticed a difference in me. Calmer. More smiling - when I wasn't stressed with W. It was my coping mechanism, and it is for many guys. It doesn't make it right. Smoking a pack a month is still doing damage to your lungs vs. smoking a pack a day.

[kyrie]

I hear you about that rock bottom (if he can ever reach it... he's managed a LOOONG time just missing it). I was asking about my own preparation for that...best thing in that moment?
Gonna start a new thread because I'm ready to pull the plug.

[kyrie]

I can't stop thinking about separation and divorce. Posted some of this earlier:
Recently I read a bit about the idea of covenant vs. consumer marriage. It also lead to thinking about why Jesus Christ allows for only adultery for divorce. Perhaps it has a purpose (LRT?) and when is it appropriate.

I keep thinking about it. ... when covenants are broken, God cut off the offender (Israel, who also represents the Church, and in the Christian faith, wives also reflect/represent the Church in relation to Christ).
He cut off Israel in order to let her hit rock bottom but also to wake her out of sleep/ignorance so He could call to her again.
I'm wondering if that model is appropriate here. But I could be wrong. I'm not God.
Last night I couldn't help it... he led the conversation in such a way that it came around to broken vows & what the bible says about it (of course, he only wanted to talk about how I was a bad wife, not his own). So I respectfully asked if now was a good time for us to talk about other broken vows (his). He said snarkily, SURE. So I asked. Of course, he responded by stonewalling and saying it felt like this was only about leverage or playing a game. I said I understand why it's hard to talk about it - it's not honest to say you're going to talk about it and then not. And I walked away. So he came and pushed again about it only being leverage, blah blah blah. So I said a few things I don't even remember and ended up saying the real question is are you sorry for what you did? He said he already told me that he confessed his sins to God & he didn't need to be sorry or confess anything to me. I paused and asked is that a Christian thing to do? How do you feel about that?
"I don't care anymore".
So I took my ring off and handed it to him. Took his off his dresser (put it away) and resolved that I'm moving forward with separation and possibly divorce.

Also thinking about talking to the Bishop - as a head's up if nothing else.

Not sure what the next step should be. Ask him to move out? Talk to a lawyer?

I don't want to be entangled in his downward spiral anymore.

[job]

Kyrie,
Please stick to one thread until you have 100 postings/replies. You can change the subject line within a thread. The reason we are advised to stick to one thread at a time is so that you can go back and revisit each thread and it's easier for others to follow your threads this way.

Cadet will most likely combine both threads since you only have 46 postings on this one and have now created a new one.

[kyrie]

Spoke to a brother pastor and I think I will try to connect w/the Bishop tonight. He may still take H's side and not want any public scandal, but I guess that's a last effort before it blows up...

[trumpet]

Prayers, Kyrie.

Let the Lord lead where he wants you to go. Always speak the truth in Love.