Well.. I was here about 18 months ago and DB'd my relationship. I'm back.
A little history: My fiance and I have been together for 5 years. About 2 years ago, she went to rehab for alcohol addiction. Not long thereafter, we got into a huge fight and she left me.
I came here and DB'd and we got back together after 2 months. We continued to live apart for about 11 months after we reconciled. Things were awesome. We spent weekends together and everything was amazing, a second honeymoon phase.
In July we bought a home together. Immediately, things started to get rough. Her attitude changed pretty quickly and she was more confrontational. I couldn't put my finger on it.
We kept fighting and started going to a marriage therapist in late November. Things have been touch and go since then.
About a week ago, we got into a huge row. She then blurted out that during our time apart, she was drinking behind my back but not getting drunk or abusing alcohol. She has mentioned in counseling that she knows she can handle alcohol now and that the driving force to her unhealthy drinking was her anger from her childhood. She said she dealt with the anger while in rehab and no longer has it.
Our counselor doesn't seemed convinced she can go back to drinking without abusing alcohol.
Fast forward to last night.. she was irritated with me and we started talking about our relationship and she told me she didn't love me like a boyfriend anymore. She missed driving home to her own apartment after work and not having to "worry about anyone".
I'm back to square one. The panic has set in. Oh, and I've been diagnosed as a "Love Addict" by our therapist. Google it if you've never heard of it.
Just like before, I'm back to no sleep, I can't eat, and I feel like I'm having a 24/7 panic attack.
I'm back to the early stages of anxiety etc. I can't beleive I'm here again.
I've done lots of reading and it appears our relationship is one of love addiction and love avoidance (pursuer/distancer).
When we reconciled, we both pursued each other. As time passed, I slowly became the pursuer and she became the distancer.
It's become like an addiction for me because I'm afraid of abandonment. When she dropped the bomb on me last night, I remembered not to freak out, cry, beg etc.
But today there has been no contact, and I don't even know if we are still living together. We didnt talk about anyone moving out etc.
Very confusing. On top of it all, I suspect she has been struggling with her sobriety. She jokes about it often and said she knows she no longer has a problem with the drink and can socially drink and not get herself in trouble. She said she proved it to herself last summer when we dating while apart and she was drinking in her apartment without me knowing.
It appears she is lying to herself about her drinking but there's nothing I can do about that.
I keep going back and thinking about how great everything was 6 months ago right before we moved in together. I'm starting to think maybe she's not happy living with me because she can't secretly drink anymore. I wont stop her from drinking but I also won't sign off on it and approve it.
So sorry you are back here, but I hope that you are able to find your DB way again.
Me 52, H53 Bomb drop 9/29/2014 Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014 Marriage #2 12/31/2019 5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships) 6 grandkids
It appears my fiance has been staying at her mom's house. She hasn't been home since last Friday and I haven't heard from her. It doesn't look like she has taken much of her things from our house.
I'm not sure what to make of this. She texted me on Friday night and said she was going to stay with her mom that night but hasn't been home since. That's the last contact I've had with her.
I've been really struggling, particularly with anxiety. I always feel faint and dizzy. Im sure I'm not breathing properly due to the anxiety. Sleep has been non-existant.
I'm very much a codependant, very unhealthy. I feel like I need her to live. I'll be going back to some Codependants Anonymous meetings this week and get back on track with that.
I also think my fiance is close to relapsing on alchohol. In fact, that's what pretty much blew our relationship up a few weeks ago. She came out and told me the whole time we were dating (while I was piecing), she had been drinking and doing fine with it.
I think she wants me to sign off and approve of her drinking again. I told her her relationship with alchohol is hers alone. She decides if she wants to drink or not.
She also told me during our blow up that she misses coming home to her own apartment after work. Again, I think she wants to be able to drink and not have to face anyone while she does it.
I'm tired of the pain. Tired of the sadness and tired of the anxiety.
I'm starting to think she is just a "runner". Anytime life gets challenging, she bolts. Perhaps that's the alcholism, I dunno.
Anyways, I'm back to the sleepless nights and anxiety attacks. I'm not sure I can ever trust her again...
So sorry to hear that! I can't really offer advice as I am new to this and my advice would be clouded by what I am going through. But I can tell you that I sympathize and hope the very best for you. I have a friend who is a recovering addict as is his wife, they go to meetings together maybe that could help. Again hope you the very best.
Me 41 W 33 M 2013 Suspect A 11/15 Confirm A 1/16 She moved out 2/14/16 Stepson 13 Stepson 16
We just bought our new house in July and she's already gone.
It seems like every time there's a new bend in the road, challenge, or life change, she freaks out and runs.
The first time she left, we were looking at houses and discussing getting married. I was able to DB back then. But now I'm really worried this is just who she is.
She is very close to her mother and almost everyone suspects her mother has Borderline Personality Disorder. I'm starting to wonder if perhaps my fiance is following in her mother's footsteps.
Before this recent bomb, she would pick fights with me if we were getting along. Almost like she needed to create some drama to get a little distance in the relationship. Perhaps she had this all planned out so she could leave the R and try to minimize the guilt.
Thorton I am really sorry. i have been having a rough time as well. My mind is working way too much with out knowing anything and reading into everything.
I think we need some mental breaks
M 37 W 34
T 12 M 8 D 7 S 4
Need break 4/12/15 W no ring 7/7/15
Separate room 4/12/15 Separate living suggested 8/15 W moved out 11/1/15
M 43 W 45 M 10.5 T 15 S 26 D 17 (previous relationships) ILYB 12/25/15 + asks for D Confirm affair 1/10/16 W has D ready to sign, but agrees to wait for refinancing to go through (I get a house!)
I'm sorry Thornton. It does sound like she has some intimacy issues. issues around getting too close to someone.
One thing that has helped me is to list things I'm thankful for and to go back to it several times a day. I also write down my plans. Plans I have for myself moving forward. Most of mine have been around remodeling my home.
Me 40 WW 41 D 4 S 12 S 14 BD 6.16.2015 W stopped wearing ring 9.4.15 W Filed Divorce 9.14.15 My ring off 11.15.15 D finalized 12.18.15 WXW (wayward X wife) moved out 1.28.16 got her own place
Damn, you were an inspiration on here Thornton. As someone else said, you've done it once so you know you can do it again. Basics, basics, basics.
You also lived through the panic before so you know it's not real. You're not going to die. You know this. It just feels like it. Keep telling yourself that all is going to be well in time and this is simply not that time. You're injured, but it's not forever.
Sorry to hear about the turn in your life, keep breathing, staying grateful for what you do have and keeping the big picture in mind. You got this.
PP
M 39 W 36 T5 M3 BD - 1/15 Separated - Same Day Served 9/15 D finalized 6/17
The real question should be how can we lengthen these breaks. I do have moments when I feel i get these breaks, when I am completely wrapped up in something that my mind is only on what I am doing. I know it is hard to find something like that, but they are out there. I truly challenging part is forcing yourself to do something, anything. I surprise myself when i do force it and how much it helps.
M 37 W 34
T 12 M 8 D 7 S 4
Need break 4/12/15 W no ring 7/7/15
Separate room 4/12/15 Separate living suggested 8/15 W moved out 11/1/15
Well she stopped by the house tonight to grab some clothes. We made small talk and then I asked if she staying at her mom's house permanently. She said she didn't know but that her feelings about us haven't changed. She's done.
I'm still in shock. Kind of numb actually. We have been in our new house for 6 months. Not sure where to go from here. I know, beleive nothing they say... But the look in her eye said it all. I don't know if there is anything I can do to fix it this time.
It's hard because we have been through so much together. Lots of huge life challenges that I felt bonded us and made us unbreakable. Apparently she doesnt feel the same way.
I really have no other option but to go NC. She was adamant that she she felt we were too damaged to bounce back. We certainly have had some big rows but I didn't think they were deal breakers. Sometimes I even felt she was looking to pick fights to create some distance in the relationship.
Ive read some about the Avoidant personaility in relationships and she fits the bill.
In the meantime, I need to figure me out. Obviously this is fresh and I'm hurting. The anxiety is what kills me. I wake up at 4am, realize she's not there and then immediately fall in to panic.
Being codepedant certainly doesnt help. I need to invest in some therapy to tackle that issue.
I understand waking up in the middme of the night and realizing they are gone. I have been doing that lately. I wish you the best of luck this time around. I have faith that if you dis it this time you can do it again with hooe and patience.
We had a blizzard here and I'm working from home today. Really having a hard time reminiscing about my relationship.
I'm stuck in our house. The house we worked so hard for, spent so much time searching for. It's symbolic.
This house represents the next step in our relationship after we reconciled and dated while living apart for a year. We finally made it here and now its been blown up.
I find myself obsessed looking for a definitive reason as to why this happened.
When we lived apart, things were amazing - honeymoon. We fought maybe 2-3 times in that year timeframe. Little did I know, she was drinking at her place.
Once we moved in, I noticed an immediate change in her demeanor. She was more aggresive and irritable. It makes me wonder if the alcohol that enabled her to be such an awesome fiance when we were piecing.
She claims she never got drunk. She would simply have a glass of wine or a beer when she got home from a stressful day at work.
When we moved in, she would joke about getting a drink. I would laugh it off because I thought she really was joking. But now I'm wondering if she was really withdrawing because she knows I would have a problem with her drinking around me.
In our counseling session, she even told the therapist that she doesnt think she has a problem anymore. That her abusive drinking was dealt with in rehab due to her anger issues. She now claims her anger has vanished and as such, she can drink every now and then. To be honest, she has been just as grumpy as ever IMO.
Im at a loss. I thought all those issues were behind us and that we would be getting married soon. The pain Im experiencing is incredible.
I keep thinking about what my life is going to look like from here on out. I miss her terribly and ever thing reminds me of her.
In the meantime, I need to figure me out. Obviously this is fresh and I'm hurting. The anxiety is what kills me. I wake up at 4am, realize she's not there and then immediately fall in to panic.
Being codepedant certainly doesnt help. I need to invest in some therapy to tackle that issue.
Thor...buddy....
Back to basics, same as before....
DB101
Go back and read your early threads...same questions still apply...
Thorton I believe your thoughts are dead on. She was able to have some drinks when she was alone. Now she is with you she cant do what she wants in the open.
I dont think this is about you, it is about her battling herself and her issue.
She may not have a problem anymore, but I think that is a slippery slope.
I am not qualified to help you address this with her. I think maybe you should seek some guidance from a professional that handles alcoholism. You may get some insight.
But yes you need to take care of yourself as well right now.
Do some things for you, but I may be wrong for saying this, I wouldnt turn my back on her right now. You could do some research and learning on your own about this situation.
Again that may be my problem though, always trying to fix!
M 37 W 34
T 12 M 8 D 7 S 4
Need break 4/12/15 W no ring 7/7/15
Separate room 4/12/15 Separate living suggested 8/15 W moved out 11/1/15
So I'm thinking of selling our house. She plans on getting her own place and I dont think I will be able to afford it here.
It really hurts that our dream came true and then was crushed in the matter of 6 months once we moved in. We saved for the down payment on this house for a year.
Im still struggling with her betrayal of drinking while we were reconciling. When we reconciled, she told me had a drink one time and I was empathetic as she said she didnt like the way it made her feel. In actuality, she drank for a year while we pieced our R.
It hurts because it was very painful for me when she went away to rehab for a month but I was commited and supported her.
As I look back, I see a broken woman trying to find her way through life. She's been in several abusive relationships with alchoholics. I was a perfect match for her - codependant.
I also have thought about the possibility that she is borderline. The first time she left me, she wanted to get married 2 days before she left.
This time around, she was wanting to look at wedding venues in January and telling me she loved me with all her heart. Alas, she's gone once again.
In our therapy, the counselor mentioned she suffers from a lot of shame. Almost like she doesnt feel deserving of anything good in her life.
I'll admit the last few months have been rough. We've have fought more often and spent time apart. I felt like she was distancing in the R and it caused me react. Im certain there is no OM because she was always where she told me she was going and had pics on FB to prove it.
I really dont know what to think anymore. But I am hurting so bad. The anxiety is the worst and I've just gone on anti-depressants.
It feels like there is no coming back from this one. The look in her eye when she spoke to me speaks volumes.
Sometimes I just need to get my thoughts out and process them. Im very much in a place of fear right now. Not just for my relationship but financially as well if things go the way they are going.
All of my family are about an hour away from me and I haven't made many friends in the city we live in yet. I'm very much alone. WAW has all her friends and family nearby to support her.
Hi Thornton, I'm sorry to see you hear again. I recall reading your sitch in the early days of mine. I think OTW is giving good advice and I agree that slowing right down is a good idea. I know you said about the look in her eye - but truly time will tell how things will unfold.
I think last time for you, a few months of solid DBing turned things around in your sitch. However, it sounds as though some underlying factors weren't addressed - her use of alcohol, some intimacy issues on her part, your own codependency and fear issues. You may not see this right now, but truly try to see what has happened as a gift - some time for you to examine your own part in what has happened and work on areas you want to improve.
From your post above, it sounds as though this is an opportunity to build a support network locally outside of the R. What about a CODA, NMMNG, or Alanon group for example? A way of meeting others locally and getting some support for yourself - or consider some IC too maybe? Does your employer have an employee assistance programme that includes counselling?
As you have been here once already, you have tools and knowledge under your belt that you can draw upon. However, I think it is a case of settling yourself and getting your DB skates back on - and remembering that DB is as much about saving yourself as about saving the R. If you emerge from this difficult time as an independent (not codependent) and fearless (not fearful) person, that would be a success - regardless of whether your SO chooses to come along for the ride.
For now, work on settling yourself, self-care and support in order that you can focus on some of the other stuff. Take care & keep posting my friend
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Thanks so much for your kind words. I think I'm still sort of shell shocked at the moment.
I vacillate between numbness (shock?) to intense pain and anxiety.
Thankfully I was able to sleep a little better last night but for some reason 4am rolls around and my eyes open and the stinkin' thinkin' starts up and I can't get back to sleep.
Concentrating at work has been very difficult.
I do plan on attending some 12 step groups. I had no idea there was NMMNG groups, I will definately look into that.
I have struggled with fear alot. I will tip toe around WAW and try not to piss her off. She can be grumpy and tends to not handle life's stressors very well (as indicative of her alcoholism). As a result, my anxiety slowly turns to resentment and anger and she will snap at me and then I will snap back at her. Rinse, wash and repeat.
Honestly I think alot of my fears stem from a fear of abandonment. My sister was killed in a car accident when I was 10 years old and both my parents were overcome with depression. I REALLY struggled for years.
I noticed I tend to rescue my dating partners (or chose emotionally unavailable or addicted partners). Very codependant.
I was so hopeful for my WAW when she went to rehab and quit drinking. However, she did not attend AA meetings for long after she got out. She remained sober for at least a year but I think she was still carrying around her own pain from her childhood.
Finding out she was drinking for a year while we piecing and hiding it from me felt like a huge betrayal (it almost felt like she admitted to an affair - at least that how it felt to me). She let me know during an argument and I exploded and said a bunch of mean things to her. I'm ashamed of that. Her daughter was in the other room and heard everything I said.
That night I apologized to her and her daughter but the damage was done. It was almost as if her lie to me was swept under the rug. I was fearful she was going to leave me. Ultimately she did 2 weeks later saying she couldn't get over our fight.
In the months leading up to this event, she was definately grumpy and on edge with everyone, including her daughter. Things would be ok and then she would find something to be angry about. It appeared she was picking fights to create some distance in our relationship.
Because of her big mood change when we moved in together, I can only assume she was upset she could no longer drink. When she left me, she said she wanted to get her own place and not have to worry about anyone else except her daughter. This reeks of the same thing she said when she left the first time. I remember back then, she was definatelt struggling with her sobriety.
After typing all this, I realize I definately need to attend Al-Anon.
I really struggle with the fact that WAW can seemingly just get back out there and start enjoying her life with friends etc.
I struggle with loss so when she just ups and leaves and get back out their in her social circle, it really makes me feel like I wasn't valued to her.
I understand I need to put my focus back on me but I just struggle with the thoughts of her out there having a good time without me. Almost like she has been freed from the ball and chain that is me.
It sure does. I know it made me feel like she would never look back at me. But just know if she does you need to show the same thing you are seeing her doing.
Even if you fake it. Very hard to do.
I love reading some of the success stories and how when speaking to the was after the fact they tell actually how they thought about them all the time and were not as happy as they put out there.
They are trying to convince themselves and others just as much
M 37 W 34
T 12 M 8 D 7 S 4
Need break 4/12/15 W no ring 7/7/15
Separate room 4/12/15 Separate living suggested 8/15 W moved out 11/1/15
Well, I had to spill the beans about everything going on with my boss. I'm having a hard time concentrating at work.
She is very supportive but also a little disappointed in my WAW. She saw what I went through when I split from WAW last time and was so happy we were able to reconcile.
This is really hard. Any tips on how you all manage your anxiety during this early stage?
Thorn, you need some friends. Join a gym, a church, a meet up thing. Go hang out at a pub, and stick to drinking coke. Watch a ballgame. Anything and everything to occupy your mind. You can't make yourself not think about it. So, find something interesting and let it take your mind off things.
There is always al-anon. The support group for those affected by someone else's drinking. It won't get your mind off her, but they can teach you how to cope.
Wishing you the best! Be strong, it won't feel this bad forever.
35 3 boys Not my circus, not my monkeys anymore....
Because of her big mood change when we moved in together, I can only assume she was upset she could no longer drink. When she left me, she said she wanted to get her own place and not have to worry about anyone else except her daughter. This reeks of the same thing she said when she left the first time. I remember back then, she was definatelt struggling with her sobriety.
I'm not so sure. If she wanted to be with you I'd imagine she could've strung you along for a long time by telling you she had it under control, would quit when she was ready, didn't want to feel judged, etc. You don't seem like the type that would've walked out right away. Either way, not a very productive line of speculation.
Quote:
I struggle with loss so when she just ups and leaves and get back out their in her social circle, it really makes me feel like I wasn't valued to her.
The lower quality you're willing to settle for the more opportunities there are. If you want a committed life partner you search for a lifetime and find one person. If you want friends to watch a ballgame you've got a handful. If you want people to get sloshed with the bars are always open. She can fill up her calendar, but she can't replace you.
Quote:
Honestly I think alot of my fears stem from a fear of abandonment.
My FOA came from me abandoning myself. I gave up on being able to take care of myself, then tried to find someone that would fill the void. XW could never live up to that expectation so I felt resentful because I thought it was her fault, and she felt perpetually insufficient.
I've since learned to take care of myself. I'm there for myself in the ways I always wanted someone else to be. Life's gotten better.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
It's so good to see you in better spirits and detached!
Zeus Abandoning myself... I think you're on to something. I've always placed my self worth in my partners hands.
In fact, I've never been single for more than 3 months. I too, placed unreasonable expectations on WAW and then would get angry if she couldn't fill my needs.
Its truly selfish to be honest.
How did you go about correcting that, Zeus?
Last edited by Cadet; 02/11/1601:21 PM. Reason: add in post from dday
This is really hard. Any tips on how you all manage your anxiety during this early stage?
Thornton, I am so sorry that you are going through this again! Those intense feelings right after BD are still fresh in my mind and I don't ever want to go there again. In addition to all the other feelings and emotions, I also had panic attacks and anxiety after BD. I couldln't hardly function. My hands would start shaking before I even got out of bed in the morning. I started taking AD, but I also had to take medicine for anxiety. It REALLY helped me a lot. I only took it when I needed it (although at first that was almost every day). It wasn't something that I could feel when it was working, I was just not hanging from the ceiling by my fingernails. I noticed it more when it would wear off. That's when I would feel how much it had been calming my nerves. If you have panic attacks and severe anxiety, you should go to your doctor and talk to him about it. He will probably suggest you take something for the anxiety (more than just an AD).
Anyway, aside from that , when I read your first post, it jumped right out at me that your WAW seems to be struggling with her alcoholism. You can't be cured from being an alcoholic. Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. That's just the way it is. You guys got back together when she got out of rehab and lived apart for 11 months. Things were great, she was happy, you got along, didn't fight, etc. Then she says she was drinking during that entire time. That's why she was clam and able to get along with you. Then fast forward 11 months. You buy a house together and are so in love. Immediately, she gets more tense and unhappy -she can't drink in front of you because it's her "secret" and guess what ....you're always there! She wants to come home, get into some comfortable clothes and have a drink. But, instead, she comes home, has the responsibility of a H and family which is more stress, and she can't drink to relax herself as she is accustomed to. So, she picks fights and does what she can to get away from you so she can return to her addiction. She feels it pulling at her, but you're there so she can't go to it as easily. Seems like she's angry at you because you're the one coming between her and the alcohol. She's not really trying to run from you, she's trying to run towards the alcohol because she's craving it. It's not that she doesn't love you, it's just that she needs help. Or, that's my take on it anyway. Of course, this is just my opinion.
I really do hope you take care of yourself. I hope you feel better soon.
M:45 H:48 M:11 No kids BD:Sept'15 EA:Confirmed 1wk later PA: Oct'15 12 '15 2 wk R Just kidding, H wants NC 12 '15 H back w/OW 4 '15 R &still working on it
I know the shaking you are talking about all too well. It's pretty disturbing actually. For me the worst is waking up in the morning and realizing my reality and that I need to fight to make it through yet another day.
The other day I was driving to work and got dizzy. I realized I was taking very shallow breaths due to my anxiety.
I read about Love Addiction. Basically it's an addiction to your partner. Like a drug, when you break up (withdraw) from a person, it triggers the same parts of the brain as drug addiction. The withdrawal is almost identical to drug withdrawal. Pretty scary when you think about it.
I think your analogy of my sitch is pretty spot on. That's not to say I've been easy to live with either, I definately have my faults.
Im really trying to focus on things I can do to better myself. Grow from this. Last time I was here, I white knuckled the entire process and really struggled, even moreso than now.
I think theres a lot of change coming my way. I can't afford to live in this big house all by myself without WAW's income. And I don't want roommates as I have a teenage daughter. I need to protect myself financially and may need to sell the house and find something that I can live in on my own. Im sure that's contributing to my anxiety.
Thornton, you can always get another house. Protect you and the daughter financially.
She'll probably need to hit a bottom. Maybe rock bottom? Addicts who think they're cured are usually very far from sobriety.
I am really sorry. Please realize time for grief, but also to plan for the future.
Are you exercising?
M46, EXWW46 M15 T17 D20, S19, D13 M - Addiction since 1998 W EA/PA #1 2013/2014 W EA #2 June 2015... BD 1 Big D talk 9/15 BD 2 - EA/PA disc 10/30/15 Served D 1/22/16 Divorced 5/25/16 (yes, that fast!)
I feel stuck today thinking about the why's and how this all happened. My mind needs some sort of closure as to a reason this is all happening.
How did we go from doing so well and buying a new home together to her leaving again 6 months after we moved in?
There were some clues that perhaps I just ignored. When we were dating but living apart, our sex life was great. She was affectionate and attentive, texted me all the time etc. She would send me sexy pictures and tell me she loved me all the time.
When we moved in, sex all but disappeared, less attention, less affection etc. She would just stare at her phone all night looking at Facebook while we watched tv.
When we started having conflicts, she was less likely to participate in coming to a resolution like she was when we were apart. She seemed to hold a grudge instead of working to come back together. I found myself frequently being the one to extend the olive branch, even when I was mad and felt I did nothing wrong.
(((Thornton))) - I guess the thing about answers is - you could ask, but whether the answer would be anything that would give you closure, IDK. I've read so many times about people seeking answers, and the WAS coming back with some crazy stuff.
For now, maybe try and leave things be with your SO and focus on settling yourself. Work on the basics - eating, sleeping, being able to work. What would help with these? Go see your doctor if you need to and arrange some IC. Also, have you thought about some meditation, yoga, journaling, gentle music, soothing activities, a nice hot bath - things that will help soothe you - even just for a little while...
Just keep posting and taking things one day at a time. Things will unfold and life will move forward, but it all takes time. Just focus on your plan for today, then tomorrow will be a new plan and so on. Even if you do this hour by hour.
We are all here for you, so keep posting and do take care of yourself xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Came home from work and got the dog, so he could ride along with me to the grocery store. My waw always did the grocery shopping so it felt a little weird to be honest (I know that sounds silly but it's the truth).
I've noticed that I'm feeling a little angry. I guess that's to be expected as I process this stuff. I like the anger MUCH better than the depression and anxiety.
I took this week off from the gym due to my anxiety and how tired I was but I am going full-bore next week. Picked up some more protein powder and I'm hoping I can channel some of this anger in the gym.
Abandoning myself... I think you're on to something. I've always placed my self worth in my partners hands.
In fact, I've never been single for more than 3 months. I too, placed unreasonable expectations on WAW and then would get angry if she couldn't fill my needs.
Its truly selfish to be honest.
How did you go about correcting that, Zeus?
I had to.
Have you seen the movie "Inside Out"? Watch it if you haven't.
I realized that I dissociated from my emotions since around age 11. My 11 year old emotional self was locked in a closet. When it cried for attention I turned up the radio and drown it out. I didn't acknowledge my emotions for quite a long time. When they bubbled over it came out only as pain/anger, I that I dispersed by turning it into energy to practice pool and be a killer.
Now I know that when I feel lonely, those are my emotions. I spent months of literally imagining that 11 year old child voicing the words that matched my feelings. "I am lonely", or "I am scared", or whatever. It took me a while to even know the words because I had become so out of touch. I had to start leaving myself voice memos when I felt things. My IC told me to start vague, if I couldn't name the feeling could I at least say if it was good or bad? Then narrow it down. Eventually I could recognize my feelings, why I felt that way, and oftentimes uncover distorted thinking or views that led to those thoughts.
I'm not all better. But it's night and day from where I was for far too long. I feel ok. The war inside of myself has stopped. It might be a false positive as well, being single has reduced a ton of pressure. There is no partner to get caught in a cycle with. It feels like such a relief after what I've been through. Am I better? Or am I just ready to go down the drain of another destructive cycle when I find my next partner? Who knows. Maybe both. That's why I'm ok being on my own. It's safe where I'm at right now.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
You basically described how I feel in a nutshell but I've never been able to articulate it like that.
I was 10 years old when the sun stopped shining. My sister was killed in a car accident. My mother had to be heavily medicated for a year and my father coped by working 80 work weeks. I developed an intense fear of abandonment.
That's probably why I ended up dating an alcoholic. I never set out looking for an alcoholic but somehow I attracted one. There's no way an alcoholic could leave me, I was her knight in shining armor and I was going to help her clean up her act. And I did support her through her sobriety, but I thought that meant she would owe me as a result. I help you get cleaned up and you love me back and never leave. Pretty twisted.
So when she did leave, I was completely and utterly shell shocked. She owed me! I guess it doesn't work that way. Logically, when I think about things, I easily see the error of my ways. But put me in a relationship, and my subconsience takes over and all logic goes out the window.
Zues, you got me thinking tonight. Thanks for sharing your story.
I forgot to mention, that when my WAW left, it feels almost identical to how I felt when I was 10 years old. Looks like I have some work ahead of me.
It seems our childhood traumas tend to keep playing themselves out in our lives.
My mother died when I was a young teen. My dad dedicated himself to drinking, and my older sibling had just moved away. It was a pretty lonely time.
I think we try to heal our pasts through our later relationship, through the love of our partner, but somehow the story ends up the same, however much we think we've chosen differently.
H and I were probably attracted because we both have these issues - his background is different but has left him feeling similarly. It's a tall order to expect another person to fix those wounds.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Thornton, I was so sad to read about your sister's accident. That is an awful thing to have happened, and incredibly hard for your family to cope with. My brother sadly took his own life 20+ years ago, and it was tough for me for a good while - and I was older and more equipped to handle it.
I think the posts above are helpful though, and it is good that you are becoming more aware of patterns of behaviour and previous dynamics in your R. The worst thing that can happen is we keep going around the same loop - as Painter said - trying to heal our past through our relationships.
Wonka posted recently on Pink's thread (MLC) about sitting on the sofa with 'hurting child' Pink - understanding what she needs and how she can be looked after. It popped into my head when I was reading the posts above.
I think you sound a little brighter and more focused on you, which is progress considering it's early days for you. Take care my friend
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Not much new to report. I've been NC since Monday (story of my life). We really don't have much to talk about or anything that keeps us connected besides her stuff at the house.
I'm a little apprehensive about the weekend and having a lot of time on my hands. I know I need to try and keep busy but I've been so exhausted from lack of sleep. I might just have to rent some movies and take it easy. We'll see.
I'm also beating myself up a little bit for being in this predicament. I have a case of the "what ifs". What if I would have been a better listener? What if I would have given her more space? I know it serves me no purpose but it still crosses my mind.
What I say is going to sound very harsh and unsympathetic and it's not that way.
I M a compulsive gambler, who is an alcoholic, smoker and womaniser.
I have no history of this in my life or family or previous Rs. I thought I didn't have an issue until I understood I was a carer type and was vulnerable. WH addiction was in control of both of us.
Your gf is an alcoholic, she gaslighted. She conned you. She was drinking and pretending she wasn't, you bought a house on the misapprehension she was clean and she knew it. She wishes to continue drinking and she wants you to enable it or she will live on her own- emotional blackmail. This is pure manipulation and you are not dealing with your gf but the imp of addiction inside her. THIS IS WHAT ALCOHOLICS DO, your gf is behaving like an alcoholic because she is addicted. It has hold of her. It is her choice and you can do nothing to stop it, she has to decide and clearly she tells herself she can manage it because she wishes to keep on drinking. It's ok not to trust her around alcohol, trust and love are different. Both are choices, it isn't sensible to trust an alcoholic around alcohol!
Alcoholism destroys lives and one of those could be yours.
You are at risk and need extreme self care at this point. Extreme.
Sobriety is near on impossible if she is in denial about her drinking which she certainly is.
If you ever piece then AA should be mandatory in my view. Sobriety is a tough gig.
------------------------
Go to AlAnon immediately, you will know much more. There are a couple of things firstly your repeated link with alcoholics is clear co-dependency. Secondly there is real experience and practical help available for you. You do this for you.
This is beyond NMMNG, ok?
This is truly damaging to you and I have to be clear in my thoughts and words on this. DB is excellent in dovetailing as part of your strategy. It is your day to day and you need more.
Step 1, accept that you are powerless over the alcoholism and go get knowledge and help.
Do not delay, get fellowship IRL. Today if you can.
If you read my tag then you will see I am in Gamanon even though WH is well gone. The damage goes on probably for life. There are FOO issues too that need IC.
Throw resources at it, get boundaries and enforce them.
If you need to let loose then there are places away from your thread to look at FOO.
I would take you there myself today if I could.
My condolences on the bereavement that is really awful thing in your life. Thank you for sharing.
Hugs
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
I suspect she is drinking, if you can't smell it then it's likely to be vodka or whiskey.
Women usually choose vodka, they walk around with glasses of OJ. Men often have whiskey the smell can be disguised by tea. They won't leave a cup or glass around and they rinse immediately.
Gum chewing and dental hygiene.
Lost jobs because of incapacity and destruction.
Your journey to self is just beginning. Find a mentor you like and obtain their mobile number. Your mentor is your most important ally, chose well.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
I honestly dont know if she is drinking but she's well on her way.
She claims the reason she drank abusively was because of all the anger she had built up over a lifetime of chaos. Then she went to rehab and released the anger. Now that she is no longer angry, she claims she can drink and not drink abusively. Ummmm I call horsesh!t..
I agree that it seems like she wants to me sign off on her theory that she can drink now. She claims she drank for the 10 months we were dating but not living together and had no issues. That she had proven to herself that she was past her abusive drinking. More horsesh!t.
Because I havent given her the green light (like it's my job to approve anyway), she's picked fights to create distance in our relationship and ultimately left me. I think so she can drink and not have to worry about answering for it.
I havent handled our conflicts well the past 3-4 months but I always extended the olive branch and was willing to work hard to make things work. She wasn't. We attended couples therapy, I spilled my guts and did what the therapist asked of me. She seemed to hold back. Perhaps she was using the therapy as an excuse so when she decided to leave she could say she tried and she could then leave without feeling guilty.
I really feel taken advantage of. Hoodwinked. I worked really hard on myself in therapy when we were piecing. She secretly drank. Then she would visit me on the weekends and things were great! Looking for a house was exciting for us. I was very excited to begin the next chapter with her.
That all changed when we moved in. She almost immediately became confrontational. It really caught me off guard. I'm not saying Im easy to live with because Im not. But Im always willing to come to the table with compromises.
Anyways... today Im a little somber. I went to an al-anon meeting and met some great people. Ironically, al-anon preaches something similiar to DB. Focus on yourself, it's the only thing you have control of. Easier said than done when your life has been upended.
I keep catching myself wondering what she is thinking right now. We are NC since Monday night when she stopped by to grab some more clothes. Not a peep since.
I honestly dont know if she is drinking but she's well on her way.
Detach from her drinking. If you live with a compulsive you will know their compulsion is their choice they have no control and neither do you.
She claims the reason she drank abusively was because of all the anger she had built up over a lifetime of chaos. Then she went to rehab and released the anger. Now that she is no longer angry, she claims she can drink and not drink abusively. Ummmm I call horsesh!t..
So do I. It's her circus and her monkeys. Her decision to drink to excess.
I agree that it seems like she wants to me sign off on her theory that she can drink now. She claims she drank for the 10 months we were dating but not living together and had no issues. That she had proven to herself that she was past her abusive drinking. More horsesh!t.
Yes, but its still her choice. You have choices too. If and when she hits rock bottom then she may reach step 1, knowing she has no control over the alcohol in her life.
Because I havent given her the green light (like it's my job to approve anyway), she's picked fights to create distance in our relationship and ultimately left me. I think so she can drink and not have to worry about answering for it.
She is asking you to enable her. And is angry you won't.
I havent handled our conflicts well the past 3-4 months but I always extended the olive branch and was willing to work hard to make things work. She wasn't. We attended couples therapy, I spilled my guts and did what the therapist asked of me. She seemed to hold back.
Probably drinking and ashamed of it. It's still excellent work for you, I doubt this is insight you will ever regret.
Perhaps she was using the therapy as an excuse so when she decided to leave she could say she tried and she could then leave without feeling guilty.
I doubt it, but don't mind read. Addiction causes irrationality.
I really feel taken advantage of. Hoodwinked. I worked really hard on myself in therapy when we were piecing. She secretly drank. Then she would visit me on the weekends and things were great! Looking for a house was exciting for us. I was very excited to begin the next chapter with her.
You were hoodwinked by her addiction. My WH did this by gambling. This is the addiction and it's truly horrible. The addict is lost too and deep in the mire.
That all changed when we moved in. She almost immediately became confrontational. It really caught me off guard. I'm not saying Im easy to live with because Im not. But Im always willing to come to the table with compromises.
It is hard to hide addiction to substances living that close. Hence the agitation and aggression. This is nothing at all to do with you, nothing you did would have made any difference.
Anyways... today Im a little somber. I went to an al-anon meeting and met some great people. Ironically, al-anon preaches something similiar to DB. Focus on yourself, it's the only thing you have control of. Easier said than done when your life has been upended.
Yes, I see the two as working very well together.
I keep catching myself wondering what she is thinking right now. We are NC since Monday night when she stopped by to grab some more clothes. Not a peep since.
Loving an addict isn't easy, you can continue to love and you can accept the addiction itself is not your issue but the effects of it are. The most useful books I found were helping the addict you love by Weistrict and Intervention by Johnson (although rather old fashioned).
I miss being able to talk to her....
There is work to do. You can accept the addiction as fact too. Personally the lies were the worst for me. You can chose to live with an addict not in recovery if you can detach.
My prayers are with you, one day at a time.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
It will take 6 weeks of attending AlAnon before your confusion settles. The fellowship is worth the effort.
So well done for attending.
There will be others who live with an addict in addictive mode. It isn't for everyone.
Some survive through love alone caring for themselves whilst watching their addict repeatedly hit rock bottom. Learning when an intervention is needed.
It depends on the compulsion, some are more damaging than others. It also depends on the addict, angry addicts are harder to live with than depressed ones.
At the moment my concern is for you. When things are settled we can ask why you choose this path. There is something familiar about an R with the alcoholic.
Why alcoholic, why not say anorexic or gambler?
Why this style of addicted partner?
Are you a rescuer, a co-dependent maybe?
What can you do to change you?
If your gf gave up alcohol for good, would that be ok?
Would you wait for a relapse?
Is this your way to control?
As always you can say no thanks V, or not now.
I will not be offended.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Honestly I'm still feeling out of sorts by everything. With space, some things have become more clear. Some of the signs that this was coming were there, I just chose to deny them or hope them away.
I honestly don't think she was drinking while we lived in our house for the last 6 months. We were together almost all the time but I could be wrong.
What I did notice was her irritability. With me, with the kids, with her job. It was a big difference to when we were living apart. Also, her sex drive all but completely vanished and she was MUCH less affectionate with hugs and kisses.
I agree, that she feels resentment for me that I do not enable her drinking. She would tell that she can now drink responsibly because her anger has dissipated. If I didn't simply agree with her and say I didn't think she had a problem anymore, she would accuse me of calling her a liar.
In response to her irritability, I did not handle it well and would fight with her. I felt tricked by her. Like she pretended to be nice to me so I could buy her a home and then once we were settled, she could be a jerk because we were now locked into a mortgage.
Her mother is also an issue. WAW is very close to her mom, I suspect codependent. She lives 5 minutes away, and always moves very close to us. WAW talks to her all day on the phone while at work, and then texts with her all night after she gets home.
I've never trusted her mom, she thinks I stole her daughter from her. It's almost like they are sisters. In an ideal world, her mother would love for WAW to live with her forever, with no outside relationships and raise WAW's daughter together. Everyone in the family suspects her mother is borderline personality disordered. Very sudden and frequent mood changes. Passive aggressive and quick to initiate the silent treatment and victim mentality.
It's ironic that every time WAW has initiated a break up or desire to spend time apart, it's come after spending the day with her mother.
I'm feeling a bit down today. I decided to spend the day at my folks house. The quiet at my house has really been getting to me along with the memories of WAW.
Still no contact and I suspect it will remain that way for some time.
Is her drinking or not a deal breaker in your marriage? If she told you she'd remain married if you got off her back about the alcohol, what would you say? Did this conversation ever take place? At any point during your piecing did you know she was drinking, or only after BD2?
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Fmum is a really big one. I recommend you stick to the behaviour and not label Fmum condition, unless she has been diagnosed safe not to.
Clearly you have identified controlling behaviour, leading to obvious FOO issues for your F.
If your stance is no drinking, and that too is controlling. The better is a boundary around drinking.
Be prepared to state that boundary.
Also validation, " I can see why you believe that you can drink again. I also can see why having been to counselling that you have dealt with your anger on your issues. From my perspective that is not what I see or feel. I think there are still anger issues and I feel you have not addressed all of these so drinking is inappropriate. So whilst I can not stop you drinking I am not prepared to..... whilst you do so"
My thoughts
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
We've never had that convo but she knows her drinking was very painful for me. I'm sure she would feel extreme guilt about drinking around me. That's why I think she wants to get away from me, so she can drink in her own apartment after work to unwind and not have to worry about me and how I feel about it.
I will not enable her, I just won't do it.
I was not aware that she drank until after we had bought a house and lived together for 6 months. She dropped that bomb on me in an argument. She said she hadn't had a drink since we moved in but was drinking while living apart and house hunting.
She claims that drinking has nothing to do with why she left me. She said we fought too much and the damage was done. I think we fought too much because of the dynamic change in our relationship due to her not being able to drink.
I remember calling my mom about a month after we moved in together and told her it was weird that WAW's attitude changed as soon as we moved in. She had a "I'm not going to take sh!t from anybody" attitude. Which was very different from her attitude when we lived apart. She was attentive and willing to work on things to better the relationship. I thought we were doing great.
I think while living apart, she had the best of both worlds. An attentive boyfriend she got to visit with on weekends and a nice quiet place during the week to drink after a long day at work while not having to worry about disappointing anyone.
I ultimately failed because as her attitude got worse, so did mine. She would yell and I said screw it and yelled back. Totally not DB. But then I would snap back to reality and make an effort to do things differently. She seemed to hold on to the hurts and let them accumulate.
I can completely empathize with what you're going through, Thornton. I also had all the anxiety, sleeplessness, inappetence (well, that's still as issue), grief, panic, etc.. I wondered how I was going to make it through. Every little bit of contact was fodder for analysis and dissection. It can just become too much.
I'm now at the 7+ week mark of being alone, and i just want you to know that it really does get better.
You've got to get your mind off your relationship and onto absolutely anything else for your own sanity, at least for some part of every single day. Find people that care about you (or hire them, if necessary, in the form of a therapist, and talk about things OTHER than her) and more than any other thing - keep yourself BUSY with something else. Anything. Clean the house, go to a movie, do some home improvement projects, laundry, get a pet - whatever it takes to buy yourself a few hours of distraction each and every day.
It's all that got me through the first couple weeks. I had myself scheduled for most waking hours, because otherwise my mind just kept going over and over everything, blaming myself for things I said, things I did. It just made me feel worse.
H: 44, Me: 45 Married: 20 y Together: 25 y no kids Walk away: 12/15 Asked for temp separation 12/25/15 PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had) H filed for D 5/16
GAL is the one thing I really struggle at. When my anxiety kicks in, it can be debilitating. Lately I've been dizzy and feeling really weak, not exactly attractive to a WAW.
Ive found that weekends are harder for me than the work week. At work I'm surrounded by people and very busy. Weekends, just the opposite.
All of my best friends live in other states. I talk with them frequently but obviously don't get to spend any time with them. I've looked into Meetups but to be honest, some of them seem VERY weird (sorcery, psychics etc - no offense if any of you are into this stuff, just not my cup of tea).
All the other Meetups tend to focus on beer, and given my issues with my WAW's alcoholism, I think its best to steer clear of that.
Sorry to sound to cynical, it's been a lonely weekend and I miss WAW.
Hi Thornton, so Meetups are just one thing you can do, but there are many others. Have you ever considered some volunteering, or a new sports activity at the weekend? Maybe have a look at what your local college are offering, or see if there are any personal growth workshops happening? Offer to walk someone's dog? Learn to cook a new dish every weekend? Start a new project to build or make something? Offer to help someone with their garden? Saturday or Sunday sports league? What about Ceroc, or another dance class - those tend to be friendly (and worldwide.)
Do you have contacts at work who may want to have some lunch, or would you get involved in church activities? Maybe really sit down and have a good think. I sometimes see interesting community notices in supermarkets, or is there a town magazine that advertises things? Over time, my weekends have become a mix of seeing family and friends, volunteering in our local bookstore, calligraphy workshops (monthly), fitness classes and I've just added in walks (monthly.) It does take time to build GAL activities up, but once you do, it pays dividends. It won't help you to be in the house with no plans at the weekend (I know, I've been there )
So, maybe make a list of ten 'avenues' you are going to pursue. And don't be disheartened as some of those activities will be 'dead ends' and you'll need to persevere. I have learned that if we can find 'community' for ourselves - friendship and companionship of others - that helps a great deal. You'll get there....you just need to start taking the first steps.
Take care - next weekend will be better I hope xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
So tired this morning. I slept for about an hour last night. Tossed and turned.
Before I went to bed, I went on Facebook and there was a pic of WAW with one of her old friends that she used to party with. We live in Denver so I'm assuming they were at a Superbowl party or somewhere downtown celebrating.
It really hurts me because all weekend long, I really struggled. I really hurt about the status of our relationship. Meanwhile, she's back out there living it up. It really plays on my self worth, I think.
Makes me feel like I wasn't enough for her. My parents both told me they don't think she will ever be happy just due to her circumstances. They outlined for me all her previous abusive relationships, her alcoholism, her codependent relationship with her mother etc,..
Im really struggling with GAL. My anxiety is off the charts, I've been feeling dizzy when I get up to walk and I just feel like my body is in shock. My stomach is a mess too.
What can we do about your anxiety? It seems like that might be a good first step toward recentering yourself. After you develop/rediscover/improve your coping skills I think it'll be much easier to think objectively, as well as find GAL activities that resonate with you
Me-38 W-38; T-15 M-12; S10 and S6 BD - July 2016; EA confirmed; confronted Aug 2015 EA dissolved 12/2016
Never make someone a priority when all you are to them is an option - Maya Angelou
I wish I was stronger than this. I wish I could be angry at how she gave up on us yet again. But my mind always reverts back to the pain. The abandonment.
I hate this. I hate feeling like I'm placing so much of my time, energy, and emotion on her and she just seems to have no issues re-establishing her singleness.
I know I need to take my focus off of her. But she's been all I've known for the last 5 years. I really set myself up because I didn't keep a balance in my life. I put all my eggs in one basket, her basket.
I won't break down and start calling, texting or begging her to come home. But when it comes to the obsessing, I really feel powerless over that.
Everyone tells me she's not happy. She won't be happy until she faces her demons. It appears that she thinks I'm the reason for her unhappiness. Get rid of Thornton, and life will be great!
I really worry about her. That she will relapse and start going down the wrong path. That I'll lose her for good. I know there is NOTHING I can do about it, so why do I worry about it?
My self esteem is nil. I sacrificed so much to be with her and she still left me. I was better than all of her ex-boyfriends that would drink and kick her ass. I went to therapy to learn how to be a better partner, to be a better me. She still left me. Perhaps she is just a runner? She's 40 years old and her longest relationship was with me, 5 years. Prior to that, it was 2 years. Perhaps that was a red flag I didn't care to look at?
Sorry for the rant. I just needed to vent, thanks for reading.
I'm at work still thinking about all of this, running different scenarios through my mind. What if's...
Honestly, I depended on her for my happiness. No wonder I feel like sh!t. I had become complacent and allowed this to happen and now I need to dig my way out.
I've made an appt with my IC for Thursday and another appt for next Monday.
Honestly I feel lost. Zeus talked a little about his struggle with abandoning himself. I feel the same way. Im drastically searching to find some sort of inner peace but I have nothing left to give myself. I feel like Im floating along in some haze at work.
Let's ask a very simple question, I asked it before.
Why alcoholics?
Where does the fear of abandonment come from?
Where do you feel this?
You mentioned your stomach, does it move, is it thick, does it have a colour, a taste or a smell.
Do you need to go to the loo a lot and is it urgent?
Apologies for being so personal I have reasons for asking this of you. I am trying to pin down the hormonal and or nervous system which is being tripped, to see if I can help.
Are you exercising to tired point?
Hugs
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
My first girlfriend in HS who became my wife started drinking abusively in her 20's, I had no idea she would become an alcoholic. When we divorced, I fell in love with another girl who never drank but was emotionally distant. Then I met WAW, and she liked to drink.
My fear of abandonment stems from my childhood when my sister was killed in a car accident. It MESSED me up bad and obvioulsy still affects me to this day.
Regarding my stomach, it feels like butterlies. That's where I carry my tension. Some people get headaches etc. For me, my stomach feels like Im on a roller coaster.
I normally exercise 4x a week with weights and cardio but haven't since the bomb because I constantly feel like I'm going to pass out. My anxiety causes vertigo and an out of body sensation, almost like I'm floating. I would hate to wake up in the gym with a group of paramedics standing over me.
I know we all say to make time our friend. My OCD tells me that I'm on the clock if I want to fix my relationship before it's too late. It creates a panic sensation.
Typing this stuff does help because I can then re-read what I wrote and apply logic instead of emotion to what I'm reading.
2016 was supposed to be "our year". We'd discussed it, planned it, talked about our dreams, and how we would obtain them. 6 months after buying our first home together to be splitting up seems so rash to me.
My mind can't comprehend how this happened and my thoughts get stuck trying to figure it all out. My mind needs a solid reason to pin this breakup on for some reason.
I go back and forth between blaming myself and blaming her for what happened. When I blame myself, I have this overwhelming sense of shame, like I'm not good enough. When I tell myself that there was nothing I could have done because she is dry drunk and compulsive, I feel a little better. Then I start thinking if there was anything else I could have done/not done to have avoided this.
My friends and family seem to think she has 2 personalities. Nice WAW and not-so-nice WAW. She can be incredibly loving or a grumpy jerk. She was incredibly loving the entire time we were piecing but living apart and then became grumpy when we moved in.
I don't know. Clearly I'm making myself crazy trying to answer all these questions and working myself into a manic frenzy.
I just thought we were past all of this and that we were going to be this great couple.
Now she seems happy without me. I'm stuck in a new house that I can't afford on my own and all our dreams have been squashed in an instant. I'm spinning...
Was she older, younger, a twin? Any other siblings?
How did the accident happen?
Were you there at the time?
How did you hear about it, who told you, where we're you?
We're you allowed to go to the funeral, to take part? How did your parents cope?
How old were you both at the time?
When you say messed up, in what way, what help did you have?
How did it feel?
Is it like this physical sensation you feel now?
--------------------------
I am going to leave your washing machine mind stuff to others better able to guide you on it.
I suspect we have trapped abandonment in your body from the loss of your sister. I would just like to give you the biggest warmest hug I have in my treasure chest.
The dizziness is interesting to me too, and I want to research a particular physiological phenomenon that I think might explain it. I need to marinade. I think this is wonderful progress Thornton.
As always you can say no V this is too much I am not offended.
if you want to say things away from your thread go to Vanillas threads you will see one listed on FOO issues. Several posters shared there and I have the thread deleted after its spent.
Big hugs
Tenderness
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
My sister was 16 and I was 10 years old when she was killed instantly in a car accident. I wasn't there but I answered the phone when the hospital called to talk to my parents.
They didn't tell us she had died until after we had driven to the hospital.
My parents were a mess. My mom was tranuilized for a year and suffered panic attacks. My dad started working 80 hour work weeks. I remember strangers always at the house bringing us food and tucking me and my brother into bed.
I developed a seperation anxiety. I felt anxious everytime my parents left the house, I thought they were going to die. Eventually my anxiety became so bad, I needed to be home schooled for a year.
I ended up spending 3 months in-patient in a childrens psychiatric hospital for depression/anxiety issues at the age of 11. I remember feeling abandoned by my parents when they dropped me off but I know they had no choice.
Eventually I overcame those issues until I started dating. I would form very intense bonds with my girlfriends. Very codependent relationships. Some were worse than others. These relationships made me feel safe, they filled a void in me.
WAW was an occasional binge drinker. She didn't need to get hammered every night but she would definately drink to excess occasionally and had issues with her jobs, relationships etc as a result.
She went to rehab and seemed to do very well. She completed the program and remained sober for at least 9 months. The only issue was she HATED AA. She felt it was just a repeat of all the other meetings. She couldnt connect with the toothless, run down, haggard alcoholics that had been there for 30 years.
She basically quit going to AA and remained sober. Then we split up the first time. She was struggling with her sobriety and it was causing lots of fights. She left me and we basically went NC for 2 months. I was a mess.
We got back together and started piecing. We decided to live apart for 11 months and see each other every weekend. Little did I know, she was drinking Mon-Fri after work. She claims she never got drunk and that it wasn't even every day. Honestly I dont know how much of that is true.
She told me this a few weeks ago and I went off on her. I cussed and screamed and acted crazy. I felt she had betrayed me in a big way. I was planning our future and saving money for our house. I was also going to counseling and working on my issues. She did nothing but drink and hide it from me.
Now we are here. I haven't heard from her in a week since she came to the house to grab some clothes, not a peek.
She did post a photo on Facebook last night with an old girlfriend she used to party with back in the day. I have no idea if she's relapsed or not.
I struggle with feeling like she threw me out like a piece of garbage. Easily discarded so she could pursue her life the way she intends to live it. And I'm left to pick up the pieces, probably sale our house and move back to my hometown about 45 minutes away.
I would love to give little Thornton the greatest V bear hug and hold him until he has cried his grief over and over and over.
This wonderful loving little boy lost his sister and his mum and dad to their grief. It is little wonder than you feel abandoned, you were abandoned in your grief. Nowadays grief like this would be tackled in a very different way. In those times everyone did the best they could, benign neglect of a sensitive loving child. And that does not make this right not at all. Those adults let you down very much so. And it is not in any way at all your fault.
I think of the part of you locked in grief and loss as a lost boy, one of Peter Pans crew. I am admiring that you have parented yourself so well.
Many children who have had these ACES (Adverse Childhood Experiences) would have much more damaging issues. You can test your ACE score on ACES too high and it would be good to know your score and resilience.
My loving and special Thornton you have given me much to think about. I need to think about this and reread your threads. I hope that is ok.
I will be back to discuss this with you and with compassion I want to say from one FOO affect child part I call funny bunny to another I call lost boy, there is healing to come.
There will be shift, this pain can be felt and released. This stuck grief can be turned into a positive force in healing.
My first thoughts are that your feelings are not fear or anxiety, they are stuck grief which is entirely different.
I also don't see anything messed up, I see a little lost boy in grief without the care of those around him to enable him to have the tools to cope. It is no wonder you had separation anxiety and it was neither fair nor right that the adults around you didn't step up to the plate to help you through this grief. I can see how and why and can rationalise it and validate it and that doesn't make it ok. It isn't ok, not in any way.
From what I already know there is nothing wrong with lost boy, absolutely totally nothing that isn't explicable by the Kubler Ross Grief cycle being 'stuck'. There is going to be a lot of shift for Thornton, I just absolutely know that facing the pain and saying your story will unfurl the denial. Your IC will really help too.
Please can you give me space to think and marinade.
In the meanwhile you have my best care and concern.
Hugs and healing
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
I will be attending another al-anon meeting tonight. I feel like I'm getting stuck on the obsessing about WAW.
Granted I'm early in my sitch but I'm worried I can get stuck here if I'm not careful.
I feel like perhaps I'm being foolish for holding out hope for a reconciliation with WAW granted this is the 2nd time in 18 months that she's left. I also feel foolish for wanting someone back who lied to me for 11 months while I worked my ass off to be a better partner.
Met some really great people from all walks of life at the new support group I tried tonight.
Many shared their stories of pain and triumph. It really helps put things into perspective when you think about it.
I'm working on surrendering to what is. I have zero control over WAW or her thoughts. I've been living in fear of whatever path she ultimately decides to take. I have gained nothing by worrying and obsessing and losing sleep over it.
Yes,it hurts like hell. No, it won't kill me. Yes, I can move past this. No, it won't be easy.
Tomorrow is a new day. A reset. I'll focus on being grateful for something in my life and force a smile if I have to.
That is an incredibly helpful outlook, Thornton, and it will give you strength. I admire your courage.
H: 44, Me: 45 Married: 20 y Together: 25 y no kids Walk away: 12/15 Asked for temp separation 12/25/15 PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had) H filed for D 5/16
I am relieved your AlAnon went well, spouses and loved ones who attend these groups have much to offer in terms of reaching serenity.
You can stand for your R. Of course you know from your meeting that you are dealing with the addiction imp, so standing is complex and we have the extra complication of stick grief.
I still attend Gamanon every week, a group I helped to set up. It could just as easily have been AlAnon. Gradually it helps until one day the confusion is less. Addicts lie, it is part of it until they truly want change.
That may not make it easier. I recommend you make the adjustments to FB that you need so the knowledge of your gf isn't thrown at you.
Big hugs
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
I was actually able to sleep a little bit last night and it makes a huge difference. I'm not floating around in a haze today. So thankful.
I still miss WAW tons. We've been NC since Monday of last week. Mornings are usually the hardest for me, I'm not sure why. Maybe its just waking up and realizing my reality.
I really wish I could rush the detachment process but I know its something that will take time and probably isn't linear.
Good - see you're improving already - even if it is just a little. I can't remember which poster it was who had a full morning routine - Mutatio maybe?
It included a little journaling, yoga, meditation and gratitude - and he said that really set him up for the day. Plus we have Caliguy who always made his bed. Maybe if you are awake and dwelling on things you could try one of the above? Even if you just spend 10 mins - 3 things I'm grateful for and a few yoga stretches? I can recall meditating in the early morning and thinking it was a pretty good way to spend that time you are awake anyway.
Glad you got a bit more ZZZzzz - as you say, it does help...
Take care xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Just when I start to feel a little relaxed, a memory will come flooding back, or a reminder of WAW and the cycle repeats. I'll get anxious and then feel lonely and sad.
I really have to fight hard to not let it consume me.
Thanks for sharing the early morning routines with me, I'll see if I can implement something like that.
Same here Thornton. Everytime it creeps in I move to a different room or turn on the tv and channel hop. Sometimes it takes hours and I cry but it passes. I've been painting my rooms. Just to change things. It has given me a purpose, made me tired so i get a bit more sleep, it's symbolising change, it's new and different. It had mindfulness and some clarity. Hang in there bud. The now is not the forever...
me45,W43 S9,S5 T15yrs M10yrs BD 4/07/15 W wants D 4/07/15 W filed 8/05/15 D petition arrived 21/12/15 Merry xmas, W,S5 S9 moved out 5/2/16
Thats good you found something to help distract yourself Keefa.
I find myself thinking too far into the future instead of staying in the moment. It's hard to not wonder what life is going to be like in the future. I need to make more of a conscious decision to just worry about what's in front of me today.
No matter where you think you will be in 3 months or 3 years... you will be somewhere different. It might be something subtle like 3 months ago i'd never thought i'd be on a site like this speaking to fantastic people and finding support from strangers. 6 months ago I didn't think i'd be running 10k's. 3 years ago I'd have never imagined going through what I am. Point is..you can waste alot of energy covering the angles and going over the what ifs ( i still do it) but it is possible to train yourself to wind it in a bit.. The old expression ' you could get hit by a bus tomorrow' rings true......
me45,W43 S9,S5 T15yrs M10yrs BD 4/07/15 W wants D 4/07/15 W filed 8/05/15 D petition arrived 21/12/15 Merry xmas, W,S5 S9 moved out 5/2/16
I have researched the dizziness and stomach issues. I am more than ever convinced it's trapped grief being added to with the recent issues with your walk away.
These are listed as key effects of grief. It's in the lower part of the body an area not usually affected by anxiety in this way.
Here is a list of the key signs of trapped grief:
-The pain of loss intensifies – or feelings of numbness don’t abate at least 6 months to 1 year after the loss.
-Preoccupation with the loss. Intense longing for a lost loved one or former life.
-Bitterness and/or rage.
-Difficulty acknowledging the loss has occurred. Repressing thoughts about the loss. Avoiding situations that are reminders of the loss.
-Depression – especially hopeless thoughts and feelings.
-Apathy – aka ‘giving up because I just don’t care’ – sets in.
-Relationship strain. Problems with intimacy, or withdrawing from friends and social activities.
-Experiencing distressing, intrusive thoughts related to the loss.
-Believing life no longer has meaning or purposeven
Being involved in toxic relationships is a component of grief as it acts as a destruction. There is a phenomenon called complex grief which involves layering trapped grief.
Physical symptoms are:
Pain – It is not unusual to feel achy and have pain throughout the body when grieving. For instance, people who are grieving may find that their stomachs hurt all the time, or they may feel like they have gotten the flu.
Difficulty sleeping – Trouble waking up, trouble sleeping and waking up startled can all be symptoms of grief. It is not uncommon for a grieving person to have one or a combination of several sleep problems.
Changes in appetite – People who are grieving may lose their appetites completely, emotionally overeat or feel nauseous all the time. Excessive weight loss or weight gain should be reported to a doctor.
Shakiness or trembling – Grief can cause some people to be shaky and to tremble.
Dizziness and confusion – Grief can come on so strong that a person may actually feel dizzy and disoriented.
Migraines or headaches – It is not uncommon for a grieving person to develop intense headaches. All the stress on both the emotions and the body can literally make his or her head throb.
Numbness – The initial shock associated with the loss of a loved one often makes the survivor feel completely numb. This is the body’s defense system protecting the grief-stricken from the initial shock. But beware, the numbness will subside, and the grief will take hold.
Shortness of breath
Exhaustion – Grief can strip every ounce of energy from a grieving person. Even the idea of simple tasks, like paying bills or making dinner, can be exhausting.
These are from notes by caregiving and the break the cycle charity courses. There is a lot of material available.
Hope this helps
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Wow! This is pretty amazing. Those symptoms basically are me in a nutshell.
Thanks so much for showing me this. I need to talk to IC about this in my next session.
I didn't sleep well last night, woke up at 4am and starting thinking about WAW. I still miss her. I rolled over in bed and there were her pillows, but she wasn't there. Sigh..
I'm hoping my SSRI kicks in soon. Its been about 3 weeks so I should start to feel them take the edge off in a few more weeks.
Just got a text from WAW. First contact in almost 2 weeks.
She is going to leave a check at the house so I can pay the cable bill. When she left, she told me she couldn't pay her part of the bills so she could save up to get her own place.
Ugh.. A simple text from WAW has gotten me all spun up. It's easier when I don't hear from her.
I am thankful that she is going to help out with the cable bill, she told me she couldn't help out going forward because she had to save up for her own place.
But hearing from her activates the pain and missing her again...
Ugh.. A simple text from WAW has gotten me all spun up. It's easier when I don't hear from her.
I am thankful that she is going to help out with the cable bill, she told me she couldn't help out going forward because she had to save up for her own place.
But hearing from her activates the pain and missing her again...
I hear ya there thornton.. same thing happens to me. Doesn't really matter what the text is about I always get those same feelings. Just gotta try to get it out of your mind, I know it is hard. Seems like you handled the text well though. Now go do something to get your mind off it. (My last message from WW sent me reeling for 2 weeks)
Can I suggest you look at the break the cycle website. It's a charity run by a long standing grief psychologist. At first blush it's old fashioned and poorly laid out. The material is excellent.
My concern is that you are trapped with this grief in a very long spiral including attraction to significant others who may ultimately abandon you. This can change with insight, changing you to a man only a fool would leave and if they are fool you can leave!.
It's very very common to be trapped in childhood grief and this reaction rather than anger is more easily resolved.
Big hugs
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Tonight I'm feeling really down. I just miss WAW. I noticed she or her mom picked up some more things from the house today while I was at work. It creates such a lonely feeling in me.
Still struggling with wanting to know why and how this all happened. I go back and forth between feeling betrayed and then wondering what's wrong with me to cause he to want to leave.
I also go back and forth between remembering all the good things about WAW and then forcing myself to think about her negatives.
I feel ya. Same with me. Back again and I fear it's over. I find when I think about what she is and has put me through, it's easier to get through the days. Been trying to act business as usual but it's really hard. Hang in there. It's funny. Before the bomb if I would have had the house to myself for a day I would have been Woohoo! But now an empty house is a gut wrenching lonely to the bone feeling. Good luck to you. I will follow your posts.
Fight the good fight no matter the quality of your opponent.
Me-50 WAW-45 S13 Married 24 years Bomb 1-Jan.2008 Disc. EA She came back for 8 years Bomb 2-Jan-2016 Separation 3-12-2016
Right there with you Bud. I have 1 room in the house that is mine and feels good. My bedroom. It is warm, cozy, smells nice, safe, has the TV, had a dog bed now (Never used to allow the dog upstairs). silly I know but once I am away from the rest of the house and in my room it feels sort of safe. I think this is habit though as the last 7 months of being S in the same house I'd often just be in my room with my boys. Maybe this time alone, and the quiet we have is better for healing ? Just stay busy, focus your mind. Cook, clean, do normal stuff, have music or TV on helped me too. The now is not the forever..
me45,W43 S9,S5 T15yrs M10yrs BD 4/07/15 W wants D 4/07/15 W filed 8/05/15 D petition arrived 21/12/15 Merry xmas, W,S5 S9 moved out 5/2/16
I know your pain is still very fresh and it can certainly be unbearable, stupid valentines commercials dont help...what are your plans for the weekend? Whqt are you going to do to help get this crap off your mind...adventure, friends, treating yourself well, splurge????
What can you do to help yourself to start moving your feet towards having a nice time this weekend????
Honestly I'm still exhausted. I haven't been sleeping at all. I have a few support group meetings this weekend that I will attend and I might try to catch a movie. Other than that, I think it will be low key.
Honestly, I'm kind of an introvert so I don't have many close friends that live in the area. All of my good friends live in other states.
I'm really trying hard to not fall into depression. My WAW is very outgoing and has a huge support network. I've always been a family guy. My WAW was my best friend. Now that she's gone, I don't have much to fall back on.
Honestly, I'm kind of an introvert so I don't have many close friends that live in the area. All of my good friends live in other states.
I'm really trying hard to not fall into depression. My WAW is very outgoing and has a huge support network. I've always been a family guy. My WAW was my best friend. Now that she's gone, I don't have much to fall back on.
Oh good, since we are working on goals to make us the best we can be, you have identified a HUGE topic that you can start working on right away!
We need to rely on ourselves for fun, certainly however human interaction is what makes us human. Interpersonal relationships with someone other than you wife is a necessity for a full and sustainable lifestyle.
What can u do to start the new thorton who is ready to tackle new friendships...i dont mean run out and fet a new bestie, i just meab learn how to BE and do with other people????
I've been going to a few support groups and that has been helpful. I also plan to attend DivorceCare, that starts next Thursday. I'm hoping I'll be able to make some friends in the process.
TBH, I've felt like a zombie the past few weeks. I'm on auto-pilot. I think I'm still kind of in shock from everything that has happened. Getting out there and being active really hasn't been something I'm aching to do at the moment.
I cherish my down time because I'm so exhausted. 2-3 hours of sleep a night is killing me, and that's with a OTC sleep med.
Ive been on an SSRI for about 3 weeks now, hopefully it will start to kick in soon.
Hey Thornton. I'm doing sorta ok today. Wobble last night but sun is out and well I'm hanging in there. I can totally empathise with you. I have always appeared confident outgoing but am actually shy and always preferred family life to going out to parties drinking etc but recently I've been saying 'why not' instead of 'why'.
I've been out on a few occasions and it takes your centre of focus away from the main stream of hurt...I found it to be enough of a rest bite to make some difference in my attitude.
me45,W43 S9,S5 T15yrs M10yrs BD 4/07/15 W wants D 4/07/15 W filed 8/05/15 D petition arrived 21/12/15 Merry xmas, W,S5 S9 moved out 5/2/16
I worry about you. About your anxiety, lack of sleep, and struggles with depression. I'm sure you know that you're not the only one who responded to the BD with those emotions (hell, you might have even experienced it already the first time you were here). Do you need to re-evaluate your coping strategies?
Do you have any good friends you can talk to? I only told 1 friend what was happening with my wife, but once I started talking I felt so much better. Just having someone to release your thoughts to might free up some mental space and give you some respite from all this....
It's only a thought, and I might be overblowing your statements. It's just that you don't strike me as the type of person who would normally react to a crisis this way....
Be well, and stay strong
Me-38 W-38; T-15 M-12; S10 and S6 BD - July 2016; EA confirmed; confronted Aug 2015 EA dissolved 12/2016
Never make someone a priority when all you are to them is an option - Maya Angelou
I've struggled with depression my entire life. Some days are worse than others and sometimes I feel ok. I think my lack of sleep is really contributing to how Im feeling.
I'll be ok, I just need to keep moving one foot in front of the other.
Is your IC a clinical psychologist? I would highly recommend one. They listen more and comment less. The comments become effective. These are people who have worked most of their career in mental health institutions. Just a mere suggestion.
Sleep deprecation.Practice mindfulness. Just be aware of your body and have your mind flow to Now.
Me: 43, W: 43 M: 16, T: 18 D - 7, D - 7 ILUB: 26 August 2014 Still living together
I do the same thing, Thornton. Sometimes I read and that lets me go back to sleep. Sometimes I check on here. That often takes away some of the anxiety, but then I don't get back to sleep.
I hope the IC helps you today. Is it cloudy where you are?
11/4/15 W revealed EA/2 months later became PA with co-worker Reconciling since late April 2016 Don't give up until it's time, then move on Be patient, strong and kind but never a doormat
My GP prescribed me trazadone for my sleeplessness since BD. It's a really old antidepressant that apparently never worked very well for that purpose, but it turns out that it DID do good things for sleep. It's helped me a lot. Maybe something to talk to your doc about1.
Last edited by Cadet; 02/11/1610:04 AM. Reason: start a new thread message
H: 44, Me: 45 Married: 20 y Together: 25 y no kids Walk away: 12/15 Asked for temp separation 12/25/15 PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had) H filed for D 5/16
Sorry to hear about the trouble sleeping thornton. Are you doing enough to tire yourself out during the day? At the beginning I had a bit of trouble sleeping, like we all do I am sure. I would try to get out every bit of energy I had and it worked. Now, oddly enough, if I think about WW right before I sleep, which I typically do in some form, it puts me in a weird state of ease, hard to explain actually.
I'm sorry to see you back hear. I saw your thread and couldn't pass by without saying hi.
I remember you were so upbeat towards me when I sounded much like you do now. And that was even when you were NC with your WAW.
I hope you can get back to that point. I know the first few weeks are the hardest but right now she is showing you who she is right now. For your daughter and your own mental sanity you need to make yourself get out of the house and do something fun. Maybe something outside if the weather is nice.
I hate reading you being so down when it's not how I remember you here. You were so thoughtful and upbeat to others even when you weren't where you wanted to be in your sitch. I hope you can find that person again
I hope your day has been getting better. I was very down the first 2-3 months after the bomb dropped. Then, I started making goals for myself. I had to get out and do things otherwise I would sink into despair. We moved here a year ago and I didn't have very many close friends. So, I made myself join divorcecare on Mondays, started going to church again on Sundays, started a ladies golf group on Thursdays. I also am trying to get used to being alone without the kids because that is a real struggle. You were so helpful to me last night when I had a bad evening. So, I wanted to encourage you to get our and get moving. Hope your day is better!
M 44 H 46 M 20yrs T 25 yrs S15 S12
ILYBINILWY 7/18/15 Move to MBR 9/8/15 Physical Separation 10/10/15 Suspect A 8/2015 Confirm A 12/27/15 D filed by H 2/2/16
Yes, I remember my late night chats with you. We were both struggling.
How are things with you and H? I hope you guys are doing great.
I'm starting to think that WAW just isn't the one for me. She's a "runner" and takes off anytime things get challenging. It's hard because she can be such a lovely, thoughtful, caring person too.
Thanks for stopping by TO! So good to hear from you!
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