RD Movin on 13co

[Vanilla]

I have been thinking about WW and her guilt. More thoughts!

Brain cell is really beginning to hurt......

Those who have destroyed an M and a family with so much pain inflicted unless they are personality disordered are going to feel guilt. They have so much to feel guilty about.

As reality sets in WW is seeing the harm she has done and it bites. They feel little guilt about the A itself whilst it seems romantic. I have observed this with addicts and compulsives the guilt isn't about the addiction itself, they enjoy that. OM is a wipe arse and in fact there were substances involved in this and I suspect if WW health is further failing then this is still in play.

WW may be punishing herself with guilt because of her misdeeds. This I think will prevent her from enjoying even the 'limmerance' phase of the R with OM. She can't be even lost in her R with OM.

Truly WW is lost.

RD let her go her way to work through her guilt.

WW may need to feel that the cost was worth it, the greater the sacrifice she makes the more reward. That isn't happening with this OM. She can't let go of him for fear she ends up with nothing and has sacrificed much for a handful of air.

Clearly this is creating destruction for WW and it shows. She risks all in the expectation of something better and the land of milk and honey is a land of poverty and pestilence. Ironically when someone has an A they may feel the A partner is not permanent partner material. WW may move on from OM in due course although she seems in such poor health that this makes WW less attractive to a healthy partner. She is 'stuck' and guilt seems to be destroying her. I considered if there might even be shame for her and can't judge from your posts. She appears to be functioning in a work environment.

She will continue as long as RD continues as he is part of her guilt. Her romantic high is unrealistic for a long term prospect with OM. She wants what she wants and largely RD accommodates from love and guilt. WW has romance in her head and if her health breaks it's unlikely OM will remain interested. This OM is a leech and when there is no blood left will drop and seek another host. WW hasn't grasped how Rs work. It's hard to justify her OM even to herself.

My concern is that WW is headed for a huge health breakdown and may be dependant upon you for the rest of your lives. More stucknees and RD will stay loyal as a result of his guilt.

Of course you have a distrust of Rs and that leaves RD unable to enter a new one. Letting go of the rope of WW isn't about dating or new R, it is about detaching and having a GAL. There are principles to apply to new Rs and one of them is freedom from the old. RD whilst WW is still around in your heart this isn't going to be met.

Hugs

V

[rd500]

Thank you Lady V and Sotto You both make very interesting points.

My childhood was rocked by my dad leaving and I never understood how he could leave me , my mum yes but not me. In all my Rs I have suffered insecurities because of my dad or not When I say all Rs I mean male and female. I have 4 very good friends that I e had since my teens and those Rs were truly tested over the years.

My trust in a romantic R was never 100% and that's before BD , I always expected the worse so I was prepared somewhat. I don't want to sound arrogant but through my life before W , Rs were never a problem and my insecurities led me to end two Rs very prematurely because I felt the ladies were losing interest , later I discovered I couldn't have been further from the truth. When I met W , she really catered to my Insecurities and that's was great , maybe it was too much for her long term but by the same token I improved tremendously

With W now , my thoughts are as M is over and I comfortable with that , I want to be the best RD I can be with everyone. W hurt me but that's in the past , do I hold a grudge or do I treat her as the mother of my kids and a friend ( of sorts )

Vanillia , it's hard to read your thoughts of OM because they coincide with mine exactly He found a person in termoil and made the most of it. I'm not excusing W for a second and the choices she made where all bers. I did console myself about the physical aspect as according to physical evidence and SIL , W is unable and so is OM however now the emotional side has come to hurt me more and the physical side is unimportant

I get what your saying about leaving her to her choices and if she is sick then that's on her My IC told me 12 months ago that W would get very ill because she has seen cases like mine and W is not able to cope with what's she's done and W basically ran away from her issues instead of dealing with them. IC believes W may never face them and will struggle on forever

For me the future does look ok. I spend a lot of time with my kids and I know I need to GAL I've always been a family man and in my life I have a lot to do. Between the house , the upkeep of the gardens and work I don't get a lot of down time and when I do I like to relax

Going forward , I would like NC with W but guilt does keep me from being more aggressive about this I know I was fired as a H but I can't help feeling some responsibility for the state W is in. From the first day she left she has been a mess and never asked for anything or changed history She is always kind and caring and has tried serious temp testing up to nov of last year when I told her we could never have a future and I wished we had never met To this day she sees that I have moved on and if anything flourished

I thank you for your posts and you taking the time to do so

Take care. Rd xx

[Sotto]

Hi RD, I can't recall that you've posted about your Dad before and I'm sorry for what happened. From what you post it sounds as though you felt - had I been enough then surely he wouldn't have left - which is a great shame if so.

Can I ask - is your Dad still alive and have you and he been in contact during your adult years? Were you an only child? As soon as you posted about your Dad and the impact on you I thought - aha, now we're getting somewhere. Normally, there is some murky pain in all of us from childhood that we're reluctant to examine. However, at times like these, there are opportunities to do that and to find peace and acceptance. We needn't live our lives held back by the residual trauma of such experiences.

I do feel that, even if our M's aren't saved, if we manage to transcend trauma and better manage our anxieties or insecurities - these are gifts indeed. I think you owe it to yourself to receive that gift. Perhaps you can accept that your Dad's leaving had nothing to do with unique and special you - and everything to do with him. You've seen and read that so many times on this forum.

Anyway, do post some more if you feel able and we can explore this with you. I'm sure V will be along to offer some sage advice too xx

[rd500]

Hi Sotto. My dad left when I was 11 was very sudden and we were left in south London with very little money. Before he left we would have had a very high standard of living but being 11 I had never appreciated it before then. I was very lucky to have a wonderful mum who did all she could BUT she was always very bitter and even to this dad still is. I'm an only child and don't trust people I tend to push people away and Proberbly expect too much

With my friends I would like to think they could count on me for anything and during the time W is gone they have all rallied around like troopers.

My dad and I made up about 20 years ago but it was always fractious until W left and since then he has become a wonderful dad and supports me 100 % I'm lucky to have support I have

Thanks for posting Sotto

[Vanilla]

RD, your dad leaving at 11 is a really tough thing. Partly unexplained and children blame themselves.

This explains a great deal to me about your tolerance of WW and you holding her with contact to your children.

I am content that this is part of you and it is in the meanwhile, history repeating itself with a slight twist. I can see why you are doing what you are doing. Much makes sense to me.

And yes, I think the analysis of guilt is accurate.

RD never ceases to surprise me. First the kidney issues and now this.

RD you broke the chain, you became the father your own father could not be.

I need time to marinade once more.

V

[Pink17]

Hi RD,

Have been sharing your feelings lately. I totally get the reasons behind your actions regarding your W. I really don't see it as much guilt as just pure simple love for the ones you put in this world.

Maybe I am in such big denial that I don't see it clear, but the love and dedication we give to our kids is much bigger then our ego and self centered selfishness and we do what it takes to see our kids happy, even if it will break our hearts.

The wounds created by one or two parents in our past makes us to think we do not want our little ones to feel the same. IMO, it is not control, it is not guilt, it is just thinking straight and deciding that we do not want our children to walk the same path as we did.

I see that in your sitch, as I see in mine and I totally understand the feeling and all what you allow your W.

I think the hard part for us is to get ourselves in a place of balance that we won't be so hurt by the presence of someone that is deciding to take us from their lives.

I can just believe that time will cure some of the open wounds and we will be in one piece sometime in the future. Besides that, I can see only that we just struggle to keep the every day responsibilities going.

Some days are happy, uplifting, shared with joy and adventures, and then there are days that we just look back and see what it could be, why it did not, what and why it happened this way, regrets of some choices and pride of others, a deep pain in the heart for being left behind, a great feeling of loss and yet a hope that life is not done yet and we may, just may find some kind of happiness in the days to come.

Reality is cruel and we were left to face it and be brave enough so we can do the job. Our kids are teenagers and some would say that they can take care after themselves. Some, like us think that the job is not yet done, teenagers can take the wrong path and if they do our jobs will be a hundred times more difficult.

There is a lot to do when you have the teenagers, it is not just about doing their laundry or cooking for the hungry ninja turtles. It's about guiding on their decisions, talking the tough talk, setting hard boundaries, giving the example. At some point in time you are the parent and teacher, counselor, maid, police, doctor and on, and on, you name it.

So RD, my sweet and lovely RD that I really admire. IMHO, I don't see anything wrong with you. You did a lot at your youth time and desire to have a family and all the benefits that comes with it.

We all make mistakes, say things we regret, regret the ones we didn't do. But we are just humans. In a normal life we need to get busy to make money, to provide for the ones we love. This alone will drive you crazy and so many days go by and we do not pay attention in some details that should be important but they did not seem to play in our heads.

I think that moving forward we need to really look at ourselves and stop being so negative about it, we need to value that we are still struggling but in the same time we are the ones standing and doing the heavy lift. We did many mistakes but we are the ones that would swallow the pride and say "I am sorry".

We can't determined or control anyone's choices, but we can look at ourselves and feel good that we did not give up because some belly ache.

I hope you can find that value inside of you and look at yourself in the mirror and let go on the bad feelings. You are doing the right thing here. You are looking after the ones you love and admire the most in this world, and that is a treasure we can't deny.

The struggle and the pain will probably go a little further for us since family had a strong value in our lives, but it won't be forever RD, sooner then later you will start feeling better and your heart will be free to love again. It is just a matter of time.

Love,
Pink

[rd500]

Hi all. Thanks for the kind words. I am struggling quite badly today with the loss of the family unit. I'm accepting and that's ok but it's difficult not to feel rejected and that I'm not good enough. I say this sincerely because I know plenty of my friends on here will leap to reassure me that I'm a decent person. So please don't feel the need to this time

I'm on the sorry go round and feeling that I can't seem to get off. I know how lucky I am to have my kids and I'm very fortunate compared to others on here that EXW keeps her life to herself

The stomach turning pain from BD is long gone and now I just get down when I think of how it could have and used to be

I will have much better days so I just need to move through this one

Thanks for reading

Take care. Rd

[Vanilla]

RD

My lovely RD the loss of your M doesn't make you lose your family. You are still a family, still loved.

I won't offer platitudes to you, you are feeling low and what I can offer is the biggest sisterly Internet hug.

V

[rd500]

Thanks Lady V. Much appreciated

Take care. Rd

[Dawgs]

Right there with you, rd.

I was on the sorry go round so many times I can't tell when I got off half the time. As with you, it's the destruction of the family unit that makes things so difficult.

I recently filed for divorce and am still up in the on how I feel. And, as with you, I am still missing that. The hardest thing to realize once a spouse goes to the extent of an affair, the marriage is done. What one must ask, is why am I willing to put up with someone who not only disrespected me but the family?

I've heard every justification imaginable for an affair, and my w even went so far as to blame me. It is what it is. No amount of reasoning will make them change their minds, and the more you try the more resentful they will become. The hardest thing to accept is the fact that they no longer care nor wish to be in a relationship with you. Think about that for a minute - if they did, would they have had an affair, especially a sexual one?

While you, like me and all other left behinds, still love our cheating spouses, there isn't anything one can do. Some will say the cheater isn't of the right mind, but that is a load of BS. An affair isn't a mistake, period. It was a well-thought out choice, and that fact can't be argued (oh, and I hold the corner on cheating spouses with an effed up past). By the time the A happens, the marriage is long dead.

The main question is can you ever really trust your spouse? A leaopard never changes its spots...